From Learn-to-Play to High School Hockey: The Financial Reality

How much does youth hockey really cost in 2026—and what can we do about it?
In this episode of 2 Many Men on the Mic, Coach Jared and Coach Drew dive into one of the most important conversations in youth sports today: the rising cost of hockey. From Learn-to-Play programs to travel tournaments, new skates, broken sticks, camps, and development opportunities, they break down the real numbers and compare today's costs to the 1980s, 1990s, and beyond. 
But this isn't a doom-and-gloom episode.
The guys discuss practical ways families can manage costs, why diversification into other sports still matters, and how the hockey community can work together to remove financial barriers that prevent kids from staying in the game. They also announce a new initiative with RG & Luna Sports to help provide skates to players and families who need a little extra support. 
Plus:
🏒 Stanley Cup Final takeaways and lessons for youth players
🏒 Why mistakes—even at the NHL level—are part of development
🏒 The "Five Tire Fire Drill" powered by Drift Hockey
🏒 How hockey families can help grow the game without breaking the bank
At 2 Many Men on the Mic, we believe hockey is more fun the better you get at it—and we want more kids to have the opportunity to experience that journey. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Too many men, too many men on the mic, June 9th edition. A steamy summer St. Louis Day. We're just at the beginning of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

I think we touched 97 today. I'm for it. I'm good. Good. Sweat it out. Makes it uh difficult on my dog as I can't take the little guy for a well, he's not a little, I can't take the guy for a walk uh unless you get up at like you know 4 a.m. But uh I'm for it. I'm all right. We waited all year for this.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

We did in February when we were sitting in the dark uh and it was cold outside, we were waiting for days like this, and here they are.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, yeah. You know, pool days, you know, as long as the what kills me is like when we get that heavy rain like we did yesterday, and then you just see the steam rising off the ice ball. Yeah. Um, you know, I I can take I can take the 90s. We start crossing into triple digits, it gets a little bit uh gets a little dicey. Yeah. Just a little bit icy. So a lot going on in the last week. Uh, you know, I I I don't know if it's recency bias, but certainly everybody and their brother is calling this the greatest Stanley Cup finals ever. Maybe the most uh entertaining. I don't know if it's the greatest ever, but definitely the most entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

I would not say the greatest. I would say uh a lot of banter around uh how many points uh are there gonna be, how many goals are gonna be scored because there's been more goals than I think people were expecting. I think uh a lot of people were you know thinking lockdown defense, defense wins championships, the NFL folks, you know, uh uh signaled that uh that kind of approach. But uh I think we had this on the show, right? A couple I know we had this on the show a couple weeks ago. Are the players getting better? Uh is the game getting too too tough for goalies, and uh that show was around uh goals against average going down and goals going up. So to me, this is just another stat that kind of supports that argument that the players are getting better and uh and more goals are being scored.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, I I think every every series and in this series in particular, you have like these microcosms of these mini, like mini games. Um, you know, game one, uh, you know, Carolina jumps out to a 2-0 lead, and then it feels like you have a totally different game in the second period when Vegas comes back and they take a 3-2 lead. Then it just feels like each period is a game unto itself. There doesn't seem to be any continuity from period to period, which is which is I mean, kind of cool. Um, but at the same time, I think if you're if you're definitely if you're a coach, you're kind of like going, can I just get a complete 60 minutes out of these guys? Oh, yeah. And it's it's a game of mistakes right now.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

I mean, I've watched uh that's a great way to say it, a game of mistakes, because I've watched uh at least two of the games that appear to me to uh signal this is the kind of game we're gonna have only for the last six or seven minutes of the game to have five goals in six minutes when before the game was pretty much locked down on both sides. So a great lesson to share with our players out there. You gotta play the game to the end, you gotta play all 60 minutes, uh, or you gotta play all three periods if you're a youth hockey player not playing 20-minute periods. Uh, you got to play the entire game all the way to the end because uh uh there could be mistakes that are being made, and then the game could be at hand uh in the third period.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Well, I and and in this series, you know, you've had two overtime games in the first three. I wouldn't be surprised. So we're recording here on the 9th, we're gonna drop on the 11th. So by the time we drop, we'll be getting ready for game five back in uh the great state of North Carolina. But I think as as we relate this to kids again and to youth hockey and to parents, you know, as we talked last week with Josh Holmes about you know giving parents perspective on the difficulty of the game, these are the best two teams in the NHL and some of the best players in the NHL, and they are making mistake after mistake after mistake. And you know what happens when you make a mistake? They keep playing the game. And both teams have taken taken leads and capitalized on the other team's mistake, and both teams have fought through the mistakes and come back to tie or take the lead. And so I look at this as a great series, as a microcosm of youth hockey about resiliency, about never giving up. I mean, for crying out loud, the last game, it was four-nothing. Four-nothing. And there was a penalty shot that could have made it five-nothing. And Carolina storms back, scores four unanswered goals, scores the three fastest goals in the history of the Stanley Cup finals. Now, most teams would be like, hey, you know what? All we gotta do is get one of these, we're not gonna get game three, we'll come back. No way. They're like, nah, we're gonna go out there and Vegas, you know, one man's mistakes, another man's opportunity. Carolina ties it up. I mean, so if you're a hockey player, a youth hockey player, one, I hope you're watching the full game, but if not, remember, watch complete periods, see the entire you know, game, pick a player to follow. But don't get discouraged. And if you're a coach or a parent, perspective, um Shea Theodore, who played on the Canadian Olympic team, made a mistake that cost his team a game. Uh Hurdle, Thomas Hurdle. Penalty and overtime cost his team a game. Actually, Shea Theodore's penalty cost his team to tie it up. So these are the best of the best playing a kid's sport. And um I just think it's it's an awesome, awesome. Like we watch these players and we see perfection a lot of times, or we or we perceive as perfection, but when you see them in this in this scenario, it's just a great, it's fun to watch, and it's a great lesson and great perspective for kids and coaches and parents at home.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

I haven't heard you say crying out loud on the bench.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

It's been a while. Crying out loud.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Go on.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Well, we got a good topic. Uh uh, this is a uh a relevant topic uh all season long. And it is uh the cost of youth hockey. Uh not only getting into youth hockey, uh continuing on the youth hockey journey. Uh we're gonna tackle it from a couple different perspectives. And uh uh when you wake up every day and uh regardless of how you're affiliated politically, and uh you see gas prices are going up and inflation's going up and uh cost of groceries are going up, uh, and then you're trying to stuff uh youth hockey inside of that. Uh that's that's a challenge, I think, for a lot of families out there. Uh certainly um uh families that have a desire and want to continue and really feel strongly about, you know, this is a sport we want to continue to invest in and continue on our journey.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

And I think it's important to um put this in the a broader context as well of as of youth sports in general. Um it is expensive, it is um in some instances I think perception is is you have to you know um spend a lot of money in order for your kids to enjoy things. And I think one of the things that um certainly I've been guilty of confusing this is um participation and development. You know, they're two different things, you know, you should be able to participate in a sport that you enjoy playing without the pressure of you know having to follow this strict developmental curve or follow a strict um developmental uh like recipe, so to speak, and the with the costs that are involved with that. And that's not just a hockey-specific um item. I mean, hockey does get a very, I think, you know, the articles I've read is outside of equestrian, hockey is the most expensive sport to play. And we've got some, you know, we've got some data that that does support that, not just here in 2026, but you know, we're looking back 20, 30, 40 years even. Um, but uh as we were kind of discussing how do we tackle this and and how do we bring this up in a very um, I would call it a charged environment. It's a lot of people that are um are making some decisions about you know what their discretionary income, where it goes to. We made I I went on this journey or I started this by going to peer hockey, and and peer hockey is just one avenue. Um there are obviously a lot of different places, but the reality is whether you're going to peer hockey or ice warehouse or um or hockey monkey, most new equipment kind of falls within a plus-minus of two or three percent. And I said, if I was if I had a seven-year-old that I was getting started in hockey, and I picked the least expensive equipment to get that seven-year-old started from skates up to helmet, including a stick, what would that cost today? And so I went through and um it was uh about five hundred and seventy-five dollars all in to equip the the seven-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

And that was and that's brand new gear, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Brand new gear. And again, what we want to have this discussion is not just to point fingers and say how terrible and how expensive hockey is. There's a lot of podcasts and a lot of uh a lot of people who will say that and bemoan how expensive it is. We want to bring some some tangible data and some solutions and and as an organization and a community, see how we can help. But we're gonna get to that. But yeah, $575 for the entry-level least expensive skates, shin guards, pants, elbow pads, shoulder pads, helmet, gloves, and that's starting off with a wooden see.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

And I bet a lot of people that are out there that maybe haven't been uh involved in youth hockey a long time are looking at that and probably having some sticker shock, right? $575 just to get my kid involved in hockey. So uh let's take a deep breath. Uh let's uh let's talk about a learn to play kid. Let's talk about a young learn-to-play kid. And what I mean is a five-year-old, a four-year-old, a maybe um approaching a six you. You don't need to have uh brand new gear at that age. Uh, you also uh I would advocate don't necessarily, unless you know for sure your son or daughter is right-handed or left-handed, uh, get them a wood stick, get a straight one. Uh, let them show you which hand they are after playing with it. But there's ways to defray some of these costs and getting involved. And so uh wood sticks versus composites. Uh uh that's a tremendous savings right there. Uh locally here, where we're based in St. Louis, there's uh an organization called Play It Against Sports. Uh it's a secondhand gear uh uh outlet. Uh they've got some really good stuff. It's not, you know, stuff that's completely worn. There's also youth hockey associations that have swaps. Kids grow out of gear. Those are great ways to get involved in hockey. So while we're talking about challenges, we're also talking about solutions. And at the very, very beginning, before your player has even decided, uh put the gear on for the first time, uh, told you how much they they love hockey or that they're not quite sure. Uh, there are ways to defray some of those costs getting started at a very young age. Yeah, and um so so I I started that's my that's that's my big word of uh of this podcast, defray.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Defray, defray and defer.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

So you have a seven-year-old who you're now outfitting to play hockey, $575. Now, a couple things occur here. Um, oftentimes parents will say, Hey, I want to don't know if he's he or she's gonna stay with this sport. Maybe we'll get the sizes a little bigger for them to grow into. Um, so there are different tactics that we've all done. Now you go to sign up, and now you're looking at anywhere from a thousand to two thousand dollars, depending on where you are, depending on what ice costs are from a regional standpoint. And let's say it's a seven-year-old, you're gonna take uh you're gonna play in a jam, we call them jamborees, you play in two or three of these jamborees. Well, then that incurs team fees that have to be collected. And as you look at this, in 2025, to play hockey in an entry-level house style for a seven-year-old, seven-year-old hockey player fully equipped, it's about an average of thirty five hundred dollars a year. Now you pause for a second and you think, okay, what does that mean to a household? We did a little research here. And again, all of this is everything that we talk about tonight, is interconnected with about growing the game because there are economic barriers that have delayed the growth of this game in this country. It's also it's also delaying the growth of this game in Canada um and even overseas in Europe. The median household income, and I did some research here in 2025 based on the U.S. Census Bureau and um a couple other reputable uh Aspen Institute for Project Play, the Bureau of Labor Statistics uh for consumer expenditure data. Um median household income is about $89,000 before taxes. Take home pay on average after taxes and pre-tax benefits, if you have that, is about sixty-two thousand dollars. So if you have one child that you are equipping and playing hockey, that's about five and a half percent of your take-home income. If you're the median household income. And so there's this is this is gonna un you know, we're gonna pull on this string and we're gonna, you know, we're gonna pull the the pull the string on this. It's hard. And what if you have two kids that want to play hockey? Yeah, and so what does that five point five percent represent? I mean, that's almost a year's worth of electricity. That's a potential vacation. And this is again, we are not talking about um, and this this is not a discussion about um how people spend their money and the decisions they make. This is about hockey and the expense that it is. The the we have to be very real about this. So I went back and I decided, okay, well what is this? Like how does this compare to 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago? You know, it just it feels high, right? So I did some research. This is where the Aspen Institute for Project Play and uh Bureau of Labor Statistics for Expenditure uh consumer expenditure data come into play. Thank you, thank you, Internet. Um in 2015, 10 years ago, uh the median household income was uh about uh $70,000. $75,000. Take home pay was about $42,386. Cost to play hockey in the exact same scenario, about $2,700. So actually about 6% of that take home pay. So very, very comparable to today. Yeah. Um 2005, about $2,000 or about 5.8% of the median take home pay. 1995, about $1,300. About 5% again. 1985, this is what blew my mind. First of all, the median income take home, so median income was uh about $35,000 or was about $27,000, and the take-home pay was about $17,700 in 1985. It cost $900 roughly to for one child to play hockey in this exact same scenario, but again, about five percent.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

It's consistent.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

So at the basis of all of this, the entry into the sport, the financial entry into the sport is a per child, it's about five percent of your take-home income if you are at the median household income. Right now, here's where we gotta start talking about like where these barriers lie. It's pretty tough. I mean, to to shell out that type of money. And statistics say oftentimes families are financing through credit cards or you know, um uh pay apps like a firm or Zezel. So there's also this if you can't pay cash for this and you are financing it, now you have an interest rate on top of that of anywhere from 15 to 25, sometimes 29 percent. So it's a little it's a little deceiving when you're talking about just that household income percentage. And then what happens is the child grows in 1985. When you had a day like today, 97 degrees in St. Louis, June, uh June 9th, chances are there weren't a lot of kids uh playing hockey, organized hockey. They're putting their skates up, they're grabbing their baseball bats, their baseball gloves, their soccer balls, their tennis rackets, and they're they're going and playing other sports um that are not nearly, or at least weren't nearly as uh um expensive. You didn't have you didn't have many summer camps, you didn't have division, you know, additional development leagues. It wasn't it wasn't to the point where it is today. So I want to kind of get what your thoughts are on just some of those statistics, just when you're talking about like if you're making the median household income, which today is about $90,000, 5% of that income for just entering into 8U hockey, that's a big, that's a big number.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Well, my first thought is we love our children, right? That's that that's that's that's why we're spending.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Well, you're spending a lot more than 5% on your kids, no matter what sport they're playing. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

We're we're we're starting at five percent. So uh we all love our kids and we want our kids uh to have the things that they want, and uh for them to have fun and enjoy, especially a sport that hopefully they've signaled uh already that they you know that that they truly have an interest in, which is why, you know, I just wanted to kind of start with if your entry point is hey, I don't know, I'm trying to figure out if hockey's a fit for me, there's no reason to go brand new. Uh try it out, see if you like it. But you make a really good point because now uh hockey today is much, much different than it was 10, 20 years ago. And now we're talking about summer camps and uh summer camps in town, summer camps away, um uh off ice training, uh skill sessions to work on things because maybe a coach at the end of your season said, uh, hey, you're doing a really good job at these things, uh, but here's some things that I want you to work on. And then uh player goes and talks to mom and dad. Dad and mom and dad are thinking about, well my gosh, well, you know, we need to make sure that you know we're working on these skills, these areas, uh, because we're invested in the sport and we want to continue. And so then that's on top of the five percent. Those are things that you're doing in the summertime. Uh, so there's there's a lot more additive opportunities now than I think there ever were. We were talking about this earlier. You know, I'm a dinosaur, and uh uh back when I was a kid, there was uh one summer session, and I think it was six or eight weeks long. And uh it was at the local rink by my house, and it was um very loose in terms of organization before small area games became a thing. We probably were skating lines, if I can go back and remember that, and then uh doing a lot of scrimmaging, so not nearly as structured, and we didn't have the benefit of USA hockey doing these studies with soccer and figuring out how soccer could translate to hockey in small area games and development and make the sport better. So there's just there, there are more additive opportunities now than I think there have ever been. And uh, and then there's you know, add the social component too. Mom and dad are talking to uh uh a friend. Uh, what's your kid doing this summer? Oh my gosh, well, my kid's doing this camp and that camp. And then there's this if they tell you, right? You know, well, that's a whole nother thing, you know. Maybe it's secret and we're not telling anybody, or maybe it's you know, uh fully transparent, yeah, we're doing this, and then there's the fear of missing out factor of oh my gosh, well, you know, Sue's doing this, so I better make sure that I get my kid enrolled in these camps, otherwise they're gonna fall behind. Uh, so uh just more additive opportunities is what I keep keep going back to.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Last minute of play in this period.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

We've got a couple avenues to go down here. I want to speak to a couple of points that you made because I think you made some very uh you know relevant uh top relevant you made some relevant points that I want to like expand upon. Um, but we're gonna pay a quick bill here. Um and when we come back, we're gonna talk a little bit more about okay, Johnny or Jill playing hockey as a seven-year-old, they now they love the sport and they want to keep playing. What does that look like? And that's where the comparative costs of progressing in the sport have really, really changed. And we're not talking progressing to triple A, we're talking just progressing the normal the normal developmental curve. So we'll be right back here with too many men on the mic. We're gonna pay a quick bill. Don't go anywhere. Hey St. Louis hockey fans, 5B Designs. Hey St. Louis hockey families and business leaders. If you need custom gear that stands out and stands for something, it's time to meet 5B Designs. Founded by Shannon Bruhini, a proud St. Louis mom and entrepreneur. 5B Designs is a woman-owned small business that brings purpose to custom apparel. Whether you're suiting up your youth or high school hockey team or leveling up your company's branded swag, 5B delivers top-notch quality with a personal touch. And you need a team store, no problem. Corporate polos or event giveaways, they've got you covered. 5B makes it easy with fast turnaround, flexible service, and designs your players or employees will love to wear. Check them out at stores.inksoft.com forward slash 5B Designs. That's the word 5. And if you're watching on our YouTube feed, go ahead and scan that QR code on the top right corner of your screen and see what great gear and great service looks like. I don't know about you, but I am excited about our new gear coming in. We're gonna have hacky sacks, hats, and new t-shirts to be given out to everybody at the brinks.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Thank you, Shannon, and thank you, 5B Designs. Real quick, before we jump back in, if you're enjoying Too Many Men on the Mike, hit like and subscribe if you're watching on our YouTube channel. It's a quick click for you, but it helps us grow the show and keep bringing you great hockey conversations. You can also follow us on Instagram by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner of your screen. And be sure to download, follow, and rate the podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Or you can find all of our content and sources directly on our website at Too Many Menonthe Mike dot com. That's the number two. Those are small things from you that help us keep delivering new guests, downloadable coaching content, and more from the rink. All right, back to the show. All right, and we're back here at Too Many Men on the Mike, period two.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Period two.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Period two. And uh, you know, you made some great points about um how it and some of this is is there's empirical data that supports this. A lot of it is feeling, you know, when you reach the your 40s, and for some of us, your 50s, you tend to have you know memory. Um but you know, one of the things that I also wanted to mention is is I went on to pure hockey, and obviously I pure hockey is phenomenal. They they have a rewards program, they have um they've got uh great equipment. Um, but oftentimes when you're looking for you know, you want to get the lowest price you know, piece of equipment, whether it's skates or gloves or what have you, they're not always there because most of them are obviously picked over, and there is, you know, there's only so much that's being manufactured, manufactured. So, you know, you're you're probably in that five to six and a half percent range at a size as a seven-year-old. Now, what happens two, three years later? Seven turns into ten, and you're no longer wearing the size four skates, you know, you've got to get another pair of skates, or maybe you've grown into these skates, but now you're starting to grow out of them.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

You hope you're still in junior skates.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

You hope you're still in junior skates, that's correct. But now all of a sudden it's like, wow, I'm really good at the sport, or is enjoying the sport, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Um and developing.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah. What we have found, what I found in some of my so in three years, the median household income is only gonna go up about two and a half to three percent year over year. The cost of hockey starts to skyrocket. Um you're playing more games, which means your registration fee is gonna be more expensive. You're looking at equipment becoming well, kids are getting bigger, it's becoming a faster game, um, a little bit more specialized. Maybe that wood stick with the straight blade doesn't work anymore. Um, and so and these are a lot of these things are wear items as well. So now you're going, maybe your income, your household income's gone up from $89,000 to let's call it $105. Cost of hockey is over $6,500 at that point. We're into double digit percentage for one child. And again, we're not here to tell people they can or can't play or what they need to do. This is just talking about numbers and cold, hard data and facts. So, what did we do? And heaven forbid you break a stick, right? We've all been there if you're a parent and you see a child, even if it's the other team, nothing nothing bonds hockey, hockey fans, parents together more than seeing a kid break their stick because we're all the the collective groan, I think, shakes the rafters. I mean, this is this is a serious thing. It's it's it's I I mean, now we're talking two vacations or two electric bills for the year.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Yeah, I mean, my first thought is uh Al McKinnon shot the puck over 100 miles an hour and uh is in the Hall of Fame and won one Stanley Cup, uh, played in many playoffs. Uh he did it all with a wood stick.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, yeah, he sure did.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

So there are options that are out there at the same time. I think people that are in the hockey community, uh certainly you're coaching hockey, uh helping kids develop, are saying uh yeah, you could have a wood stick, but technology's gotten to the point where uh even my own son, uh his first shot's gonna be a snapshot, as opposed to maybe a slap shot. And why? Because sticks are more forgiving now. You can shoot with that kind of torque and power uh from your wrist uh by using a composite stick. Or maybe before when you were using a wood stick, if you wanted that kind of power, that kind of torque, that kind of uh drive in your shot, uh uh you got it through using a wood stick. Uh but there are options. That's my first thought around just you know stick technology. But you bring up a good point with skates. I mean, a big barrier, a big change uh for parents with kids that are growing and being part of the sport is growing out of junior skates, which I think's right around a size six. I'm going off of memory. I think six, six and a half.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Intermediate's like a fallacy. That's not even a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah. But you know, you're getting into then a senior skate, and that skate that maybe was $300 when you were junior, brand new, uh, not at a second hand or not through a swap and an association, is now $600 to $1,000. And uh and so twice the cost. And uh so those are those are real, those are real numbers.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah. And and let's talk about going up to like a 10 U, 12U scenario. Your registration is probably gonna jump at least to $2,000, minimum of $2,000. And that is that's not even taking into account the increased ICE costs over the next three years from when your kid was a seven-year-old. Team fees are gonna go up as well because now you're not just playing in one jamboree locally and one jamboree out of town. We're gonna go to three drive out of tournaments because the big three holidays in hockey are Columbus Day, Martin Luther King Jr., and President's Day. Yep. And typically what happens is most teams play anywhere from two to four tournaments. So I just said three, and they're gonna go out of town. And so now your team fees go up a little bit because you've got to cover the expense of uh of those, and you probably have maybe 15 kids on the team. You're not you're still not putting a full 18 skaters and two goals. Um, new skates, new pants, like you said, new shoulder pads, potentially potentially two or two or three sticks.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yep. And you're breaking sticks because you're growing, yep, and uh uh the stick that maybe lasted you all season two or three years ago might last you six weeks now.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Maybe maybe and now also there's there's contact, there's um not checking full on, but kids get slashed, sticks break. I mean, things happen. Um, I had my one one of my sons was at practice and one of his buddies was messing around. He's and he kind of chopped him and he broke his stick. I could have like, I was like, I mean, there was a lot of things going through my mind at that moment, especially since I was coaching on the ice. What's going on?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Well, you can listen to the parents around the glass.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

You know, there's uh uh I can't tell you how many games I've been at the last couple years where uh you'll you're watching a game and a stick breaks, and somebody says, Oh, there's three or four hundred dollars. Yeah, and you know, there's kind of a collective groan or sigh amongst the parents of, oh my gosh, I'm glad it's not my kid that broke his stick.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

So you're looking at registration and team fees for a 10 10 to 12 U player a couple years down the road from when you started, about $2,500. Um now travel for those tournaments. I don't know if you noticed this, but gas and food and lodging is not free, and you have to pay for those when you travel. And sometimes you're you know, you're you're maybe rooming with somebody, but most of the time it's each family has their own because there is a stay-to-play um or a pay-to-stay mentality with a lot of these tournaments. Another topic for another day, right? Um, equipment upgrades, and sometimes upgrades may not necessarily mean like going up to the next level of quality, it just means that you're getting a bigger size and you have to $950. So your season costs now goes up to just under five grand at $4,800. And assuming that you know we're still in that median household range, because the third part of this is going to be talking about what is it really? I mean, what what's comfortable? What do you have to, you know? But assuming household take home grows from the take home pay of $62, uh $700 to approximately $72,000. Now you've gone from five and a half percent to just under 7% of your take-home pay is just to play regular season hockey and be safe and be able to have a stick that works and be able to be with your teammates and have a fun experience on the road. This is where things start to hey, why not go to this camp? We have a skating coach. You you know, the there's there's opportunity here. So now this revised total jumps up maybe another thousand dollars over the 12 months. And again, we're not paying for all of this all at once, but it's it's coming out of that, you know, the disposable income. Well, now you're at almost 10% of your take-home pays for one child to play youth hockey.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

I'll say it again. We love our children.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Um my thought process is what if little Johnny or little Jill have a little Sally or a little Sammy that want to play hockey coming behind them? Sure, you know, and so now this is where the discussion kind of shifts, and it's like, you know, I I don't know how people can do this. Yeah, and it impacts our ability to have as widespread um availability and exposure to as many children as possible to truly grow this game. And I know that there are programs here in St. Louis, we've got St. Louis Hockey Foundation, which is a phenomenal um organization run by the Heffingtons. We have the 47 Fund, which is specific to the St. Louis Rockets organization. I know that every single youth organization recognizes this. But the fact remains that there is a true economic barrier, and it feels that there is a there's a threshold of what families can can do.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Yeah, and so you know, what are options out there? We're you know hitting our listeners with a lot of you know real world stuff right now, but also real world, real world data to back it up. Uh so what are some of the alternatives? Uh I would argue that youth hockey associations out there, leaders of youth hockey associations, consider multifamily uh discounts if you have a player, a family that's got more than one uh player that's registered. Uh uh I would also say if you're still on your youth hockey journey and maybe you've played a little bit of ice hockey, but you know, you're not ready to think about skills and camps and things like that. Uh roller hockey is an alternative. Uh, much cheaper, lots of rec leaks. Oh my gosh, there's even professional leaks now, people playing roller hockey. So that's a way that the game has grown. But a way to, again, I'm gonna use my word, defray some of the cost. Uh, consider that. Uh you're still close to the game, you're still using a stick, you're still scanning uh the area you're playing in, you're just not on a sheet of ice. Uh, so you know, there are some solutions out there uh to offset some of these uh real-world costs that are involved.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah, I I just think of um it feels, and and there is data to back this up, but it feels like you know if you're unable to uh buy into uh certain aspects of of of the sport to help with off ice and and away from team development, um then maybe this is okay. I tend to think that it's not, um, but it feels like those folks who excel and eventually maybe move on and continue to get better and play on higher level teams, um, but don't come from the most uh um fortunate backgrounds, those become more the exception than they should be. Um and and there is an absolute correlation. I'm not gonna say causation, so I learned my lesson back in statistics uh 101, but uh there is a correlation with family income and ability and disposable income and the ability not just in hockey but in in all of these sports. You know, soccer is another one that's notorious for you know playing 10 out of 12 months, you know, or in some instances 13 out of 12 months. Um and so I know USA hockey is preaching from the mountaintop of diversification of sports. Uh, you know, don't do hockey year-round, it's not you know the healthy, but the reality is, is that's where we that's where we are today. And it is. It is, you know, I know stories, and again, these are all anecdotal that of people that I've known or heard, but like how do they do it?

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, how do they do it? Uh uh, but that's where you know I go back to uh pickleball leagues. Uh seen this recently. Uh I saw a posting of a pickleball organization that was promoting on social media that uh they had a bunch of hockey players that came in. And uh through our own discussions with uh Chicken and Pickle, you know, uh let's get a hockey players league involved in pickleball as a non-regular season activity. Why? Footwork, agility, lateral movement, uh scanning, head up, decision making, all uh all things that are involved in being successful in hockey. So there are alternatives out there. So before you're thinking about you know, fear of missing out and talking to your friends and thinking about that next camp, uh think of other uh sports that are available to you. But you're right. It it I think all of these sports have become much more specialized. And USA hockey does a great job at the beginning of your entry into the sport. I think it's fantastic that you can get a player outfitted uh head to toe in gear. Uh, what a great thing that USA hockey does to get people interested to try hockey for free. But now we're talking about you know, nine, ten-year-old, twelve-year-old. So we're beyond hockey anymore. We're not trying hockey, we're playing hockey, and we've made a decision that we want to be invested in the sport. So, where can we get relief? I would argue relief in other sports, and maybe it's not pickleball, maybe it's tennis, uh, maybe it's uh baseball. I love when kids not necessarily organized, and it doesn't have to be organized, that's exactly right. It it can be just uh having fun with your friends. Yep. I mean, uh I think we were probably in really good shape as kids way back in the dark ages because we played in our neighborhood. Yeah, uh, and those weren't organized games, those were games that came up. But we went out and left our house at the in the morning, and my mom used to yell from the top of uh the steps outside and say lunch, and we'd come home for lunch, and then we'd go back out and play, and we play till dinner, and she would yell, dinner was ready. And if you didn't hear, you missed dinner. And if you came home and had dinner, then you go back out and play again, uh, and maybe play flashlight tag or some other kind of sport like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

So ghost in the graveyard.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah, ghost in the graveyard, yeah. So uh I feel like an old fogey saying it.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Well, you drank from a garden host, too.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

And you drank from garden host, that's right. And you were okay, and you could ride your bike anywhere. So different times now, but uh, I would argue that some of those things we just need to kind of reflect on and say there are some other alternatives that are out there. So before you're thinking about that camp and fear of missing out, uh, think about that. Think about what's available to you uh right now uh that you can do.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Well look at the there's another aspect to this. The the inundation, that's another word. That is a big word. Write that down. Inundation. The inundation. I can't log into my email. And this has been the case for probably the past 10 years, without come to this skills camp. Come and do this, do this development. And they're lit, I mean, it is, and I'm I'm sure it's like this for soccer and basketball and other other um, I would call them other specialized sports where you have, you know, we've created these these tiers, travel baseball is lacrosse, lacrosse is another one, and so there's this inundation, and parents, um many of whom are not as well versed in the culture of youth hockey, think I gotta do this. Yeah, this is what this is what participation looks like. That's right, and that's not the case. Um, and I'm not saying that those aren't worthy things to do. I it's just we have to be real out here. And and it's the cost and the it's compounding, it's like exponentially every year a player is in in hockey, the cost to participate, not just the not the cost of development, but the cost to participate continues to go up and skyrocket. And not it and and there is a point where equipment has to get to that next level. I need to be comfortable, I need to be safe, I need to um, I want to be able to perform, and that cost rises. And I don't know what we do as a community, I don't know what this is beyond the too many men on the mic show. And it's beyond, I think, even the local hockey organization, you know, waiving. I mean, let's be honest, coming in and waivistration fees or doing a $500 discount on those fees is absolutely great, and you want to do it for as many people as you possibly can, but it's still, you're still at like, I mean, you're still at five, six, seven percent of your take-home income if you're at the median. It's like you almost have to have it, not almost, it's like you have to have a take-home pay of at least $125,000.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Well, and this is why I've been arguing constructively with you over the last you know year or so. Uh, so now let's fast forward a little bit. Let's say your player is uh 14 to 18. So uh let's say your high school uh has a organized hockey program. So now not only uh and let's say you're still playing club, uh uh in the very St.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Louis specific, by the way, for our listeners outside the St. Louis area.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Well, no, I mean, but but I have to believe, you know, I have to believe uh pick a city across America, and there uh there's kids that uh outside of Minnesota, where we know they shut the season down and they have two separate seasons. There is bleed between club hockey and high school hockey. And so now, if you're gonna be a high school hockey player and you're gonna continue to play club hockey, some don't, some make a decision at that point. I'm gonna pick one path or the other. I'm not gonna play club anymore, and I'm going all in on high school. But let's say you're gonna play both, then you're writing more checks.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Here's another thing, and in and one of our former guests, Matt Dumashel from the coaching site, yeah, um, had it has this I I I follow him on LinkedIn. Um, he had a great uh uh great post. I know the graphics were AI, Matt, but I look because I knew it was well, so it looked good. Chat GPT wins again. He had a split screen of a family on a car driving to a tournament and then a kid on the ice getting reps. Maybe don't go to three or four tournaments, maybe go to one or two, right? And that's okay. And again, I know this is where and this is another dynamic, and again, I I all of this is is some of we have data to back up the numbers, and a lot of this is observational, with you know, many, many, many years of being involved with youth hockey. You have different cohorts of income on a team, and some families it's another big word, cohorts. I've been using that a lot lately in my day job. Um, and some of these families have different means, it just is what it is, and and so I I think that you have to have a very this is on these individual teams, and even I I think it can start at the organizational level. Maybe the organization says, you know what, we don't want our teams at these like at A1 and below going to more than two tournaments a year, yep, or more than three tournaments a year tops. Um, and that may make some parents cringe and oh my gosh, I'm not gonna be able to sit in the lobby of that crappy hotel in South Bend. Um, but just I think about it for a second.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Which crappy hotel in South Bend?

SPEAKER_01 49:22

There's a couple of them. Shout out to South. Well, they're they're nice hotels, they just have crappy policies, but that's a whole other story.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

It's after you're you play at the icebox.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Yeah, after you play at the icebox, you want to come back and you don't want to see and you don't want to spend seven dollars for a can of Bud Light. Nah, and they won't let you bring your Bud Light into the hotel.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

But again, it's it's that's where you make friends with the hotel stuff.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

It's all interconnected, though. Again, all of this is interconnected, and and what I hope that we can do with this show is here's where we come up with a little segue. We don't just want to talk about doom and gloom. Because if you haven't been listening to the show or you've been living in a under a rock, Drew and I want to grow this game. We want more kids to play, we want more adults to play because it gets tough playing adult hockey with only seven guys on the rink. Um, and so we started kicking around. Well, okay, we can talk about this, and and a lot of podcasts out there are pointing the finger at the rising cost of hockey and youth sports in general. What are you doing about it?

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Well, what we're doing about it is uh we're trying to help families. And uh look, I don't know what the number is out there. If we could help one family getting a new pair of skates for their player, outstanding. If we can help two, even better. If we can help three or four, uh, even better. Why skates? Uh because skates are probably the most expensive piece of equipment you're gonna break uh and have to replace at some point. And they don't really break, they just grow out of them. You just grow out of them.

unknown 51:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Um, now you could say I broke eight sticks this year, and that could eclipse it.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

We may be able to help with that too.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Yeah, but the reality is skates are uh without a doubt the most single expensive piece of equipment that you're gonna have to uh spend money on to outfit your player. And so uh we've got an initiative to help players and help families uh get a free fare of skates, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:32

So we're partnering with RG and Luna Sports. RG, the source for hockey, we fit your game. Uh Tim Baylis, who is uh who's on our show as a former goalie, as a coach here, is uh um is donating skates to too many men on the mic.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Um right now I think we're we've got two pairs.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Thank you, Tim.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Right now, I think we've got two pairs. I think we're gonna be able to get a few more. Let's say we're gonna get four pairs of donated skates. Well, Drew and I are going to leverage our network and go to um a couple of very, very well thought-of organizations here in St. Louis who work with families who need help paying for hockey. And we're gonna go to them and we're gonna say, we are gonna donate these skates. Let's get them in the on the feet of players that need them. And we may look at the beginning of the season, but the worst time to have to get skates is in the middle of the season when you go through a growth spurt. And so we're still working out the details, but we're going to align with um potentially a uh a pre uh a pre-Christmas time between that time between Christmas and Thanksgiving when you know it's you've been three months into the into and all of a sudden my feet hurt because my skates are too small. Yeah, and um, we're gonna put a challenge out there. Drew and I know a lot of coaches, we know a lot of folks in business here in St. Louis, and we're gonna ask for some folks to come up, come step up to the plate and potentially help us buy more skates and get more skates on the feet of these kids who need them. Um, we can talk about the numbers, and the numbers are what they are. Like we can't we can't boil the ocean, but what we can do is we can help help some very, very I'm not gonna say needy, some some players that maybe they don't have to wait another six months to get a pair of skates and skate and paint.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

And that's what we're here to do, and we're gonna put the challenge out there, and we're gonna we're going to post it on Instagram, YouTube, it's gonna be on our website, and we're gonna be talking to a lot of folks around town to help us do that. The second thing we're gonna do, because whilst you you wear skates out, you break sticks. And uh Coach Ballon and his stick order, we're gonna try to at least get uh at least 10 to maybe a dozen sticks that we're gonna go to those same organizations and see if we can uh find some folks who need to get some new sticks. Maybe they've outgrown their stick, maybe their stick is too short for them, but they just haven't it's not in the budget to go get a new stick right now. Yep. We're gonna try and solve that. And we're gonna go to those same organizations and ask them to to on our behalf get those sticks uh in the right hands and those skates on the right feet. Um, and we're gonna hopefully this is the community aspect of our of our uh of our initiative here. And so, you know, thank you to to Tim and RG and Luna Sports. We're gonna continue to to to to have this partnership. Um if you need new uh new gear, maybe give Tim a call and uh you can DM me and and I'll get you his information because it's phenomenal what they do. They're also working with Maryville here locally. Um, but this also goes to the vantage credit union partnership we announced last week. We're gonna be a community-driven podcast. Um, we're gonna start here in St. Louis, and just like we've got guests that come on this show from all over the country and all over the world, you know, maybe this is a little bit of a you roll that snowball, although not today, because there's no snow outside today, but you roll that snowball down the hill and let's see where it goes. So that's what we're that's what we're going to do.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

I love it. Action. Action behind uh some data. Uh, if we can improve just a few families' lives, uh imagine what we can do. And uh, and our hope is that then it spreads to other people that are involved in youth hockey communities all over the country. We've had so many good youth hockey associations over the last year, Florida, Alaska, all over the country. And uh, if we can generate some momentum and spread it, uh maybe we can do just a little bit to help again defray some of those costs.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

100%. Um this is a conversation that is is is healthy to have, it's ongoing. There are so many facets, in other words that is so many facets to it. Um I can't get ice costs to go down, I can't help, I can't make decisions and I can't clean up your inbox from all the different marketing that comes to you. But if we can help um some folks in need, and also as two hockey guys who coach and who have done those camps with their kids and have spent that money, maybe it's an opportunity for us to share some insight and say, hey, maybe not this one, maybe that one. Or maybe, you know, there's some there's some alternatives. Um because we want these kids coming back because they love the game. We don't want to lose kids because it's just it becomes cost prohibitive. And I think that that's where uh, you know, I think that everybody involved with this coaches, parents, administrators, USA hockey. Um if we look at this from a community standpoint, we want to invite more people to play. We understand that there are barriers that maybe we don't all face, everybody's family's different, um, but have some understanding and figure out ways to help. Then all of a sudden, this goes from 500,000 youth hockey players to 650,000. And then maybe instead of going to overtime to beat Canada 10 years from now, we're kicking Canada's butt.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Sorry, my friends and oh wow, because you tied it right, you tied it right fast.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

USA hockey is getting our best at we're getting we're getting our some of our best athletes to play this sport.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

I think that's uh what they call a B hag.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

Well, we're gonna take a break here for a second, and then we're gonna come back and talk about another one of our partners' drift hockey as we do our weekly drill draw. Um, thanks for tuning in too many men on the mic. We will be right back.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

How did we begin?

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Hi folks, that's time again for the weekly drill draw. Find the drills look at it, and like in the coach's corner. This is brought to you by Drift, the all-in-one hockey tool. And this week, you just go to drifthockey.com to sign up. Uh, this week, coach, I think you've got a drill that uh we're gonna talk about and share with the folks out here. So let's pull it up.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Yeah, this is a uh this is an edge work uh drill. And so uh let's use tires instead of cones. So they don't fall. Yeah, let's put a let's put a tire right there in the middle dot. Yeah, right there.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

Why can't I put a tire there?

SPEAKER_02 58:30

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

Oh, okay. Gotta move it.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

What's going on, Drill? What's going on, Drift hockey? Oh, because I don't know what I'm doing. Hang on. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

All right.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

All right.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

And then let's add four tires. So think of it as we're just kind of completing an X. Uh no, on that same, on that same circle. So bring that tire over uh one to the right. Uh so we're gonna have one to the right in the bottom, one to the left on the bottom, uh bottom of the circle.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

And then take that tire that's at the bottom and move it over to the right. Yep. And then bring two more tires in on the top of the circle. Yeah, there we go. And another one over there. Perfect. And let's put a uh let's put a coach up on the top of the blue line next to the boards. Uh yeah, that's good. That's good. And then let's put the players in the corner starting below the goal line, and let's just do four or five players there wrapping around the boards below the goal line. Alright, so now we're gonna get into the part of this. So let's give uh that first player in line a puck. So the players are gonna start this drill. Now, the very first move that the player is going to make as they pick up the puck is they're gonna pass to the coach up at the top. And they're gonna follow their path towards the coach. Now, when they get to the top of that top left tire, they're gonna pivot around that tire and they're gonna turn backwards. I left out one very important piece of information. That coach is gonna give the puck back to that player right as he makes that pivot at the top. Yeah, thank you. Perfect. As that player is pivoting backwards, he's gonna pivot and go around that tire that's right in the middle of the dot. No, he's he's forwards now. Yep, so he's now he's forwards and he's going up to that, yep, that top right tire. And no, uh to the top right tire, that other side. Or bottom right tire, if you're looking on the screen. Yes. Yeah, if you're looking on the screen, bottom right tire. And now they're gonna pivot to backwards. They're controlling the puck as they're doing this. They're going down, so now they're gonna move down to that bottom left tire, they're gonna pivot to forwards, go back around that middle tire in the uh in the middle, go back to backwards. Uh now that top left tire, yep. Now they're gonna pivot, and they're gonna skate around the coach. So that coach is against the boards, that's okay, there'll be enough room. We're gonna go around that coach, we're gonna circle around, and then we are coming in to shoot on the goal. So a lot of movement here, a lot of things going on. We're uh this is an edge work drill. So we're we're going around the tires, we're using uh uh we're skating forwards, we're skating backwards, we're pivoting our feet, we're incorporating some passes to the coach at the beginning. Uh, we're getting that puck right back, but then we are handling it. And so uh I've always thought of this drill as the five cone drill. In this case, uh, let's call it the five-tire drill. And you can run this on both sides. We have it just on one side right now, but you can do it on both sides.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

Yeah, the five-tire fire drill.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

Five tire fire drill. I love it. But as you can see, a lot of things going on here, a lot of movement. Uh, you got to keep your head up while you're uh stick handling both forwards and backwards, and uh, and there's just a lot of things happening, and at the end you get to go in and shoot on the goal. Uh, so a great way to control uh this is a puck possession drill, but it's also an edgework drill.

unknown 1:03:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

You can even layer in some progressions here where you have multiple passes back and forth to the coach, or just gonna say that or even put players, um, replace the tires with players and pass the puck and go around the player.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

So one progression that I've worked on with my teams when you and I weren't coaching together is we would progress it. And every time you went around a tire, you were passing back to the coach. And so you add an element of complexity to just the same drill just by incorporating a pass each time that you go around.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

I love it. Well, we're gonna have this up on our site in the coach's corner on too many menonthemic.com. Also follow us on Instagram and YouTube Shorts as we will run this drill this Friday at our practice and we will have it recorded to show you it in action because my drawing right now probably is not doing it justice.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

Uh, I I I probably could have coached you better on the drill, but there's a lot of movement going on there, so you did fantastic. Oh, yeah, yeah. 13 again.

unknown 1:05:14

Gotta let it play out.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:17

And uh a shout out to Drift. Uh, we're using Drift for our summer hockey program right now, and uh it's it's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Yeah, it's great. The kids um not only are able to communicate their availability as we have the scheduling on there, we we put together uh practice plans. Um I think the the our ability to have this economy of time with the kids seeing what's going on before we get on the ice, um, and they're and they're on their phones more than they're on a desktop. Brian's done an excellent job. If you haven't gone to drifthockey.com and you're a coach, check it out. Um it is uh beyond beta. I think he's in MVP status now, but he's always looking for great feedback. I know that he's taken so much of our feedback to help make it even better.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Yeah, and if you're a youth hockey organization and uh you're in uh uh tool paralysis, uh, I would uh say take a look at Drift, uh, consider it uh and you can share it across coaches. Uh you can build libraries of practice plans, uh and you can go to too many menonthemic.com and uh grab some of these drills and uh begin building your library that way. But a great tool, great way to communicate RSVPs, practice plans, communication. Uh, there's also a video component if you want to uh put video in, uh clip players or have your players clip themselves. Uh, but take a look at drift hockey.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

Well, coach, we hit a lot of heady topics. Um yeah, but uh wading into some, I don't know if it's controversy, just wading into some uh some some topics that I think need to be talked about, and then let's not shy away from it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

No, I I like that we talked about it. You know, we're covering some ground that you know it's kind of hard to hear, but we're also offering some solutions. I can't wait for these skates to get into the hands of kids that need it and families uh at the same time. Uh I'm watching the score and the hurricanes. I know this is Tuesday and we broadcast on Thursday. It's four to three hurricane. I mean, this is just back and forth. And it's uh what a great Stanley Cup this has been. This is just a barn burner.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Well, great episode, Drew. We oh shout out to Grant not being here. We got through it without Grant.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Uh kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

It did feel kind of weird, but uh uh, you know, we gotta uh uh one, we gotta get Grant out on the ice on one of our summer sessions, and we also have to record it because I feel like Grant's a part of this broadcast, but everybody gets to see him on a screen. We we we need to get uh a visual of Grant on the ice and share it with our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

The minute he gets out there, he's gonna be playing adult hockey at Winterland, and it's gonna become his game too.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

So I can't wait to hear a bitch about how sorry he is.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Well, thanks everybody for joining us. Don't forget, if you are watching us on YouTube, please subscribe. It's a small little gesture that's gonna, again, it means the world to us. Follow us on Instagram at Too Many Men Podcast. That's the word TWO. And again, go to our website to get those great coaching downloadable and other different other content that we have. Coach, that's a rap shoot next week.