Best of Season 1, Part 1 | The Episodes That Shaped Our First Year

It's hard to believe we've been at this for a full year.
With nearly 60 episodes in the books, we decided it was time to revisit some of the conversations that helped define our inaugural season.
In Best of Season 1 – Part 1, we highlight six memorable episodes featuring Bob Mancini (USA Hockey), Coach Bob Jakubeck's tribute to Colin Brown and 72 Acts of Kindness, Swedish and Finnish player development with Jon Lind and Pyry Lukkarila, the growth of girls hockey with Coach Rachel Bartlett, expanding hockey in the Florida Panhandle with Coach Carlos Villa, and the importance of developing resilient, confident athletes with Jeff Brown of The Mindful Hockey Club.
Whether you missed these episodes the first time or want to hear them again, this collection showcases many of the ideas, stories, and people that have made our first season so rewarding.
Part 2 arrives next week!
If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast with a fellow hockey family. Your support helps us continue bringing meaningful conversations to players, parents, coaches, and fans across the hockey community.

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 0:34

Let's play on, man. Let's play on. Well, welcome to Too Many Men on the Mic. And I hate to go against our announcers, uh, you know, the all-knowing announcer, but it is only Coach Jared this week. Coach Drew is on assignment, as they like to say in the biz. I think it's called on assignment, right? Yeah, he's on assignment. That's the professional term. He's checking out uh youth hockey rinks in the uh the winter months down in uh Santiago, Chile.

SPEAKER_08 1:03

Patagon Patagonia World. What you're supposed to do though when you tell someone's on assignment, that's where you leave it.

SPEAKER_09 1:09

Oh assignment. Yeah, that's like code for he's been suspended. Well, folks, uh thanks for joining Too Many Men on the mic. This is a uh, you know, we've hit the just past the year anniversary. This show started, our first show was June 5th, 2025. It is now June 30th, 2026. We've got over 54 episodes in the bank, as I as I like to say, you know, and uh and Grant, I think uh what an opportune time to you know take a look back at some of our best uh interviews and episodes. Um, and we're gonna do a best of for the next two weeks. And the first show today, we're gonna recap six cool episodes that we've done in the first half of our journey last year. Um, and you know, we think that our audience will it's it's gonna be nice vacation listening as many of these folks are heading out of town, um, hopefully to much cooler uh hunting grounds than here in St. Louis right now. I think we touched 99 today and about 99 humidity. It's hot, it's hot in fact who uh golfed last Sunday.

SPEAKER_08 2:19

It's hot.

SPEAKER_09 2:20

Well, last Sunday was brutal to Sunday humidity, yeah. So yeah, yeah. So we at the Ballant Casa, um, which is uh one of the names of my Wi-Fi, Ballant Casa. Oh, but but yeah, but it's spelled differently, you'll never figure it out. Um we had uh all of a sudden at about one o'clock in the afternoon, notice the air coming out of the vents is it's just blowing, it's just blowing. So um we have uh we've got uh a ranch that has kind of that's built into a hill, so our finished basement goes out into our garage, and there's an air conditioning unit in that that's for the basement. That one's 20 years old working like a charm. There's an air, there's an AC unit in the attic that's only six years old, and so I've like god, I gotta go up in the attic and just just gotta do my thing. So I go up into the attic. Yeah, that was really, really outside the house and probably 115 degrees in the attic. Um and uh tried to do a little reset and then went back outside, and the the units just you can hear it trying to kick on. So I go online to Hoffman Brothers, no free ads, but I'm gonna shout out Hoffman Brothers here. Um next available uh next available uh service appointment. Take a guess, Grant. July 14th. Ooh, well, not that bad. July 8th. So week out, over week out. And my wife, Mrs. Balance just looking at me going, This is not not gonna work. And I'm like, oh, it's fine. We've got these AC units, the basement's soap, super cool. Um, I get a text from Hoffman Brothers saying, Hey, you know, you know, Mr. Ballant, you know, I should just ask if they would have called me coach, that'd been great. But they just said Mr. Ballant. Um, you know, is everything okay? Is it suit? We know it's super hot. How would you like if we come out tomorrow at between noon and four? I was like, I don't, I think I before I even read it, I was typing yes. Yeah, so shout out, shout out Hoffman Brothers. Sounds like we're only gonna be down. Uh, you know, first world problems here. Um, you know, but you know, you think about it, there's a lot of folks who are struggling with the heat right now in St. Louis, and so you know, hopefully everybody finds a cool, dry place to be, plenty of water, and um, but yeah, I wanted to give a shout-out to Hoffman Brothers as uh local St. Louis uh uh heating and cooling institution. So I think they sponsor the blues too, so we'll probably have to talk to them about that, or maybe the cardinal they merge with the with the hockey.

SPEAKER_08 4:59

That's how you tap it in. So, Grant, what's new with you here before we we get started on this best of you know, not not too much. Been watching a lot of the USA. Uh yeah, they'll have played their game by the time that came out. This comes out, so hopefully they are advancing to the next round.

SPEAKER_09 5:18

So they've got Bosnia-Herzegovina, right? And then if they win that, they're most likely playing Belgium.

SPEAKER_08 5:24

Yeah, either Belgium or Senegal. I think Senegal is gonna beat Belgium, actually.

SPEAKER_09 5:29

So it's like didn't everybody think that Japan was gonna beat Brazil or that Japan was gonna give Brazil a little bit of a handful?

SPEAKER_08 5:35

Yeah, I mean they lost 2-1.

SPEAKER_09 5:36

That was uh isn't that like losing five to five to one in hockey?

SPEAKER_08 5:40

No, Brazil scored in the last kick of the game. Uh same thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 5:45

35 minutes left in the game was the last kick. Yeah, true. No, it's super cool. Um, it's funny because my my son, my older son is getting together with his buddies. They were out last night at B dubs. Again, no free ads, but shout out B dubs. Um, watching some of the World Cup games. And uh, even if you're not like a fan of soccer, it's just a cool event and cool spectacle, and it looks like they're doing it upright for the most part.

SPEAKER_08 6:11

Yeah, I I think a lot of people were worried about the 48 teams because they expanded. It's been great. I mean, it was been especially hosted here. It's been so cool to see our stadiums doing this, like at this grand of uh tournament. So it's been really fun. Hopefully, US keeps winning.

SPEAKER_09 6:28

So Arrowhead's done now, right? No more at Arrowhead.

SPEAKER_08 6:32

They have one more game, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 6:34

Oh, very cool. So it's in uh what New York, where the Giants and Jets play, right? That's like the main one is at the final, and then SoFi. Yep, and then Mexico City. Yep, they have some games. Where are they playing in Canada?

SPEAKER_08 6:48

Is it at uh Canada was BC place in Vancouver and Toronto?

SPEAKER_09 6:53

So Toronto were they playing where the Argonauts play?

SPEAKER_08 6:56

No, they were playing where just the Toronto FC plays. They like brought in temporary stands to make it like 40,000 seater instead of like 26.

SPEAKER_09 7:05

Yeah, Canada's soccer's gotten much better too. Yeah, yeah, they're they made the round of 32. Yeah, they won their first game, they're in the round of 16. Ooh. So so US plays Wednesday. Yes. So we'll be a day into the round of potentially 16 to see if they're in there. So what so so talk to me about this contra like the 48 teams? What was it usually? 32.

SPEAKER_08 7:30

So it goes 32 to 16, or it would go 32, and then yeah, 16 qualified 16 would qualify out of the group in the old format. Now 32 make the knockout. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_09 7:42

So it was it was 32, so basically eight groups of four. Yes, two from each group, 16, 8 times two, maths undefeated. There you go. And then you basically have to win four games to win. So it's like kind of like the Stanley Cup, you know, kind of like the rounds of the Stanley. Okay, cool. Yeah, and so now you have to win five games. Yeah. And they space these games out like it's like a it's like football season, right?

SPEAKER_08 8:08

American football. They had been spacing them out a week, but now it's only four or five days for most teams once the knockout stage starts picking up. So it'll go, it'll go pretty quick because the group stage took 19 days to finish, and the round, or they'll play five games in 19 days now.

SPEAKER_09 8:26

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_08 8:27

So they went from playing three in almost three weeks to now five in 19 days.

SPEAKER_09 8:32

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Well, um, I'm I'm fascinated by just like any international type of game. I mean, the Olympics this year with Team USA winning both, you know, men and women's at the at the Milano Cortina Olympics and then winning sled hockey. Wouldn't it be something if if they pulled off just a unbelievable uh you know I mean we'd be it would be it would be the upset of all time, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_08 9:01

Yeah, this would be and I this would the world would burn. I don't think it would be as big of an upset as the miracle on ice, uh, just because like every single player on the United States team is they're a lot closer to the top than the USA team was to the Soviets. Um but it would definitely be the biggest, like just obviously it's the World Cup, but I wouldn't say it'd be like the most surprising. I think the Miracle and Ice tops anything.

SPEAKER_09 9:37

What country should feel the the most uh pressure right now? I keep hearing England, and I say that not just because we just had Adam Gledill on last week, but you know, I'm watching. I actually was watching on Sunday, England was playing Panama, and everybody's just like I would have thought that England was already knocked out and didn't make the round to 32 the way the announcers were talking. Um, but they won their group, so tell me who's who's under the most pressure? It's usually like England, Spain, France is like the prohibitive favorite, aren't they?

SPEAKER_08 10:08

Yeah, France is the favorite, but like the word pressure is different because like France won it in 2018. Like I wouldn't losing it would be bad because I think it's their best team probably ever. But like the most pressure is always gonna be Brazil and England. Uh, because England, it's England never wins, though.

SPEAKER_09 10:25

But it's the they're like the Knicks until this year, right? They're all of European.

SPEAKER_08 10:29

It's like the Knicks are the Cowboys, really. Like they won in 1966, they've won all these, their fan base is huge, but they can't win.

SPEAKER_09 10:38

England is like the Toronto Maple Leafs of the World Cup. 1967 was the last time the Maple Leafs won. And like their fan base is just like crazy. Yeah, but they can't win.

SPEAKER_08 10:50

I'd say England, I would compare to the Knicks and the Maple Leafs. I would compare Brazil to the Cowboys. Gotcha. Who doesn't love Brazil? You know how the Cowboys are America's team? Everyone loves watching.

SPEAKER_09 11:01

I don't know. I think a lot of people don't like the Cowboys.

SPEAKER_08 11:03

A lot of people, but I'm saying they're America's team. Like there's a lot of bandwagon fans, there's a lot of Brazil is probably the most pressure-packed for when they don't win. They hear it the most.

SPEAKER_09 11:17

They have maybe not the best of all time, but the most impactful player of all time is is Brazilian, right? It's Pele, right? Yeah, I would he's the most impactful player in in soccer ever.

SPEAKER_08 11:30

Probably, yeah. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_09 11:32

I just love the announcers when they're like saying have it, and oh, what effort, and it's just like it's just so cool. You're falling in love with the English commentary. Absolutely, it's so cool. I kind of want to be like, you know, when I from watching hockey, like, have it, have it, have it.

SPEAKER_08 11:48

Imagine the English hockey coach. That's that's what I would want.

SPEAKER_09 11:53

Well, England has an English has a league. Yeah, it's a it's a professional league. It's kind of I would say it was it would probably be on par talent-wise with probably a step or two below the ECHL, yeah, which is like the third like level league here in the United States behind the NHL and the AHL. So it's probably like I would say it's probably like division NCAA division three, maybe ACHA division one. Um, wouldn't you say it's kind of there's some former NHL players. I I would just say the the pace of the game, the pace of the game. Yeah, you'll pay some talent.

SPEAKER_08 12:31

It's a little bit of a retirement league as well. They'll pay yeah NHL players who might be loving, they'll pay them some good money to come play. Cool, they'll pay them money they can't say no to in the time in the moment to go play.

SPEAKER_09 12:44

Yeah, and and it you're in like the you know, it's like you know, I know they have the different tiers in England as far as their football teams are concerned. It's kind of like you're competing with like this the third-tier football team. Um but yeah, so well, let's uh let's hop right into the first episode that we're going to uh we're gonna do a best of. And this is this goes back to uh to really uh I would say this is the most impactful and influential episode that too many men on the mic ever had. It kind of this was where we established our credibility, and it's when we had our first uh interaction with USA hockey, and we welcome Bob Mancini, who is uh Drew likes to call him the godfather of fun uh of USA hockey. But I mean, Bob Mancini's done it all, and now he is the assistant director of uh player development for all of USA hockey. So that's that is from the the Olympics on down. Um, but he really focuses in on you know the U18s, the Us the U17s, um, and then youth hockey. And and he had some great insight for us um and really set the tone for our show. And he helped launch this relationship. And we're forever going to be grateful to Bob. Hopefully, we'll have him on again uh for a uh for a year anniversary. But let's go ahead and cut over to uh the seven back in July of 2025, where Drew and I sat down with Bob Mancini and talked a lot about USA hockey, the developmental path, and really how to continue to grow this game and develop young players of all skills. Have a listen. Well, I think I think now's a great time to to bring on Bob and uh Grant, if you can. Let's bring on Bob. Hey Bob, how are you? Great to see you.

SPEAKER_06 14:29

Great to see you, Jared, Drew. I'm happy to be on. I'm gonna have to ask you, I've been listening in and uh Drew especially, just gonna have to talk up just a little bit. I'm gonna, you know, I I I'll tell you, and and uh this is the fear that everybody should have when they have me on. Because, you know, you may only get one question, right? Because I'm gonna speak for 19 minutes. But um I'm I'm up here in the north. Um I just left our player development camp in uh in Buffalo, our Select 15s, and uh, in order to get back home in Michigan now, I have to go through Canada. So I I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I I think they're trying to interfere with this broadcast, Hockey Canada. I'm sure they're behind this. Um I'm absolutely positive that they're behind this.

SPEAKER_09 15:14

Absolutely territory, especially if you're in Hamilton. And you know, those Tiger fans in Hamilton are are pretty vicious. So that's right. Well, Bob, you know, I think that's a great segue because you have you are a world traveler. You were in Europe earlier this year. Um, you know, you're doing so much in support of our great sport for this great country. And I think Drew and I firsthand can just, you know, we've seen the impact over the last 10 years that we've been, you know, diving into coaching and still playing. Um, but you know, if we look ahead to this year, what are you most excited for USA Hockey for our players and coaches here in 25 and 26? Let's let's let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_06 16:01

Yeah, well, there's a couple of things. First of all, you know, the start of a new season brings with all the joy and all the expectations that we all have, right? Adult players, youth players, coaches, officials, right? Every single avenue of our sport, every single uh um portion of our hockey development department is excited for the season, right? Because it's a it's a clean slate. We're not, you know, I mean, it's that fresh sheet of ice, and no one knows what's gonna happen, but we all get reborn, right? There's a rebirth that happens every year. So, you know, in general, I think that excitement is is within us all, right? I mean, but it but if you got to go specific, I think on the coaching side, um, we're launching our first ever 6U, 8U clinics, um, age appropriate clinics, right? Which is a brand new direction for our coaching education program. And um, it's exciting for a number of reasons. One is we're moving closer to age-appropriate clinics. So when we talk to our coaches, our coaches who are coaching six U, eight you learn to play, learn to skate, are gonna get a more focused experience. That's really, really important. So that's probably one of the most exciting things we're doing, and because of that, um the rest of our coaching education program will also become more age appropriate. So, you know, you'll take your six U, eight U level anytime uh you're coaching eight U and below, but you don't have to move up to level one anymore until you get to the nine U category or the ten you category, right? So the way our program works right now, it's very much focused on what should a nine U and 10U coach be uh uh be focused on, be concentrating on. And now with the addition of C U8U, it's going to move that progression of taking one clinic per year and it's gonna make more sense to our coaches. So from a coaching education standpoint, that's really exciting. I think um, you know, from a player development standpoint, you know, we we talk all the time, you know, good coach development is good player development, right? You know, you can't have good player development without good coach development. So, you know, both those things go hand in hand. And then probably the other thing is, and we don't talk about it enough, is our officiating program. And uh I'm excited that this year, our officiating program, we're going to introduce follow-up clinics to make our young officials more aware on the ice, to make them more agile, more mobile, more coordinated, much like we do with our young players, because a lot of our officials are young, and and and we're gonna give them more support. So we have follow-up clinics, we have skating clinics, we're going to have mentorship opportunities, um, and we're gonna have shadow opportunities for our youngest officials. So I know you thought you asked me a short question, but there's there's so much for us that we're excited about going into this season.

SPEAKER_12 19:17

Well, that is uh outstanding. I I love the breakdown into six you, Bob. I love the officiating focus. I have a uh I have a son that's going off to college, and I have been encouraging him to become an official. So that is outstanding. What do you think? Which also encourages him to get off the uh acry payroll as quickly as possible for those weekend expenditures. That's exactly right. But uh uh a lot in there, Bob. What can the youth hockey organizations be doing, in your opinion, to help grow the game?

SPEAKER_06 19:57

Well, you know, it's a it's a great question. We've had some programming for years, right? We've had a free we've had some of our initiation programs, we have things like that. We now have a wonderful trigold for free direction. Um, those are these we need to look at what we can do to make people feel comfortable when they come in the rink, right? What can we do to make them to make the rink a more welcoming environment, right? You know, when we're talking about hockey, when you're talking about second and third generational hockey players, this stuff, we know this stuff, right? We're not we're not um uh uh intimidated by coming to the rink. We have so many new families enjoying hockey for the first time, so many new generations of players enjoying hockey for the first time. I I often think, what can we do to make that experience more comfortable? Are we welcoming these people? Do we have ambassadors, right? Are we teaching young brand new parents? Hey, let me help you uh uh put on the skates, let me help you with the equipment, right? Uh and then you look at goaltenders, right? That's that's overwhelming when we we players want to become goaltenders, right? How many times have you seen goaltending of uh young goaltenders with parents who do the sport not knowing which leg the leg pads go on?

SPEAKER_12 21:25

Yep, right?

SPEAKER_06 21:28

So sometimes it can be the littlest thing that we can do to welcome new families into our game, and then you know that that pays dividends down the road so many times because then they'll want to give back. And you know, I go back to that 6 U8U thing I talked about. By by having a separate clinic for 6 U8U coaches, I believe we're gonna get more parents involved, parents who want to enjoy the journey with their son and daughter. And if we can get them to see how exciting it is to be part of that journey, I think they'll want to be level one. And they'll want to be level twos. They're not going to stop just at six year and eight years.

SPEAKER_09 22:07

You know, it's so true. 100%. And uh, it's funny because there was a one of my son's coaches was a non-hockey player. Um, and yet as I got to know him and as as he really just embraced the sport, um, you know, he won multiple our Blue Note Cup, you know, for our youth hockey championship at different age levels and was just immersed himself in it. And you know, I thought to myself, if you can get a person who's never, you know, been around our sport or been playing our sport and was new to it because their son or daughter started to play, and they could become an evangelist, I love the fact that many of these you know parents who start off as youth coaches who kind of get voluntole, they become adult hockey players because they just love it so much. And that's that's what's gonna help us grow this sport, you know, exponentially, I think.

SPEAKER_06 23:01

So I love it. Oh, sorry, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_12 23:04

Yeah, just for reference, just to uh add on to that, uh this adult men's jersey I'm wearing, the team I'm on. We actually have three guys that got into hockey that had never played before, but they got into it because their son or daughter had been on a hockey team and they made the effort to go out and learn how to skate and learn how to play. So uh it's contagious.

SPEAKER_06 23:28

It is, and we never know what that's going to be, right? We never know what that spark's going to be. It could be parent to to uh uh son or daughter, could be the other way around. You know, um my dad never played hockey, he played street hockey in in the courtyards and the schoolyards in Brooklyn. He tells me the story all the time. He's 92, God bless him, and he still talks about his time with uh uh uh stick ball stick. That was their hockey sticks and a little spaldine ball in the in the courtyards in in Brooklyn. But his love of the game got passed on to me. Um, and uh, you know, you look at so many things, and I love that the idea of a spark, because that's why what we do is so important. We don't know what it is, right? It's that NHL player who stops to sign an autograph, it's the college hockey player who has time to go out and get on the ice with a youth organization, right? It's God we're so lucky to be involved in the sport we we're in because uh everybody can be that spark in some way. I I really like that take.

SPEAKER_09 24:43

I I I think I think it's that that encapsulates everything and why we're doing this, Bob, and I can't thank you enough for saying that so eloquently. Um, you know, let's focus on the players here for a second, because you know, you are assistant director for uh for player development for USA hockey, and one of the things we like to share with our players are are different tidbits, maybe not necessarily things that are on the ice, although habits and and you know, making sure that you're physically prepared to play is is huge. But what are some successful traits that successful or common traits that successful players seem to have in your experience that can set them apart from their peers?

SPEAKER_06 25:26

You know, it's so it's interesting because it goes right back to what we were talking about. The best players love the game, they love being at the rink, they love being in the locker room, you know, and and too often we sometimes inadvertently um drag that love away from them or we we squash that love, right? Because, you know, I I go back to and and you know, none of us, I don't think, are perfect parents, and I certainly wasn't, but I remember when my son was very young, and and I didn't know enough of youth hockey, right? I was coaching at the highest levels, and I at this time I was with the Edmonton Oilers, I was the director of player development, and and I remember my son just getting into it, and all he wanted to do was go down and play. Dad, let's play, and I kept wanting him to learn how to shoot. Let me show you how to shoot, let me show you how to pass, let me do that, and and 30 seconds, dad, let's play, right? He just wanted to play, and and it it hit me that that's really what was important then, and you know, from that point on, and then I moved to USA hockey and I learned about age-appropriate training, and and I tell you the one thing, and yeah, I can give you some hints about, you know, you know, I had a parent come up to me and say, Oh, my son loves the game. He goes to skating lessons at 5 a.m. every day before school. The kid was six, and I asked him, but I said, So was it your son's idea? Did he call the rink and ask if he could get private lessons at 6-8, right? Like, oh well, no, I have to do that for him. Well, yeah, you know, we find ways to paint the love out of the game from our kids, right? Instead of finding a way to give them passion. And I remember, you know, I go back to that story with my son, and it hit me, oh my gosh, right? Just go play with him, just go play, right? And then I heard Mike Boyle talk, and he we talked about, you know, the uh uh um the what is it, the ADD, AHD Olympics, right? We learn when we have kids at a young age, when we go out to the backyard, the first time, first time parent, you go out with a baseball and a glove and a bat, and then you realize 30 seconds in now they want to go play basketball, and another 40 seconds they want the soccer ball, right? And and in a couple of weeks, now when you go out in the backyard and play with your son or daughter, you got everything, you got arms full of every piece of equipment you can. Well, it's the same thing, it's yeah, and it's the same thing. Like, we have to stop adultifying young kid hockey and putting what we think is fun onto the children. Instead, we need to ask the kids, we need to embrace them, and we need to see, you know, like I say, you know, a good, you know, you're on the ice with six and on the players, you got kids over in the corner doing snow angels, right? And the difference between a good coach and a and a great coach at that age is the good coach goes over and says, Whoa, that's a great snow angel. The great coach gets on the ice and starts doing snow angels with them, right? And and and this isn't probably where you wanted this to go, but I think fun engagement and passion. And how do we do that? And we do it with engaging practices, we do it with having the kids find the things that the kids want to do and then give it to them, right? The races, the the tag games, the scrimmages, right? Because you know, mostly we let kids at a young, young age scrimmage. It's gonna be a better practice than anything you or the three of us are gonna draw up because they're engaged in it, right? We'll get to that stuff later. And I and and so the season starting, let's keep it fun, right? Let's, or a better word is let's keep it engaged, let's ask the kids what we want, and let's educate the parents that fun doesn't mean goofing off, fun means how do we find a way to engage the kids so when they get in the car, the first thing they say to mom is dad is I can't wait to go back to hockey.

SPEAKER_09 29:48

Whenever you hear Bob Mancini talk as a hockey coach, hockey player, or parent, it's it's it's a great listen. Um one of the things that he said that always sits with me is he talks about the difference between a good coach and a great coach. And I it just it resonates so well with me when he says things like, you know, if you're coaching 10 U or 8U players and you see him doing snow angels on the ice, he's always like the good coach goes over there and taps his stick and says, Hey, that's a great snow angel. But the great coach gets on the ice and starts doing snow angels with the kids. And those are the type of memories and those are the types of feelings that keep these kids engaged with the sport and really looking up to their coaches, and it creates just a great culture, and that's how we're gonna grow this sport, and you know, that's how we're gonna get to a point here in the next 10 years, seven to ten years, where the USA hockey and American-born hockey players are gonna be the dominant uh force within you know the NHL and beyond. So just a phenomenal interview, and we cannot be more grateful to Bob for opening up uh not only his time but the uh the resources that he has at his uh disposal with USA hockey every single month since that uh interview we did with Bob. We've had an expert uh and different um aspects of USA hockey has come on and helped us talk about development, growing the game, and it's just been fantastic. From one Bob to another Bob, we're gonna move the next this next clip is with Bob Jacobek, um, who at the time was the head coach for the 18U Afton Central States hockey team. Um it was a uh it was a very poignant episode for us. Uh you know, for those of you who are in the St. Louis area, you know that in uh November of 2024, we lost uh uh just a phenomenal young man named Colin Brown. Um tragic, tragic incident that occurred on his way home from a hockey game. And um, you know, we felt, Drew and I, that you know, time had passed where it was important for um too many men on the mic as a forum uh for Bob and Collins' family to talk about Collins' legacy and specifically about the 70 72 acts of kindness initiative that Collins family is uh is you know right now neck deep in in making sure that Collins' legacy lives on and creates uh great environment and culture, not just for youth hockey, but for all of St. Louis. And so we were honored to be able to sit down with Bob Jacobek. Uh, he opened up his heart and really showed um the meaning of compassion and what truly goes into uh great coaching. It's not always about X's and O's. In fact, most of the time it's not. Most of the time, it's about the the connection that you as a coach or as coaches uh form with their players. And it also serves as a uh uh a key reminder to players that you know the relationship goes two ways. And sometimes as a player, you don't even realize how much you are touching the life of your coach and coaches. And so um definitely a uh a great episode. Um, I think we treated it with the utmost respect, and uh, you know, we felt that this was definitely worthy to be on a best of for too many men on the mic for this past year uh as we continue to honor Colin Brown's legacy every day. Have a listen.

SPEAKER_07 33:20

Okay, well, uh you know, starting with the hat, um after uh after Brownie's passing, uh one of my high school uh classmates reached out to me. Uh he had lost a daughter. Uh she was killed in a uh car accident uh when she was at Ole Miss. So um news like this hits home. And that's the message I've gotten from a lot of people um who've reached out to me, strangers have reached out to me, who've lost, who've lost friends, who've lost kids. Uh well this this hit home to my classmate um and he wanted to do something for our group. So we had uh 23 of these made, and um uh it's it's uh it's got the 72, which is Brownie's number in the middle with uh with wings uh around the outside. And um we uh all the players, all the coaches have them. Um and uh it's a very special, meaningful hat. Uh I've actually I I actually have a uh if you can see this, I got a tattoo uh with this team. Um yeah, and and um uh my assistant coaches did the same thing. Uh we all went together. Um, even though I'm a hockey player, I'm not big on pain. So this was a uh I was I was frightened. Uh and uh you know how how long did that take, Bob? It took about a half hour, it felt like three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 34:54

Well, here we are sitting around and we're talking about this young man and we're joking and we're smiling. So if that's not a great way to start talking about this legacy man has left for us, I don't know what is. Um, you know, just dive right into it, Bob. Tell us a little bit about Brownie as a as a teammate, as a player, how he was, you know, how he was, and you know, then obviously we can lead into like really the tragedy and how you led this group of young men um and helped help them grow and help this community create.

SPEAKER_07 35:25

Yeah. Okay. So I I coached uh I I coached Brownie for two years um when I was asked to uh to take on this this very talented 2008 birth birth uh uh year group. Um I didn't know much about them. Uh so they uh the organization graciously flew me out to um Denver to watch the team play at Nationals. Uh the uh the their 14 new Eagles team had qualified for nationals, so I got a chance to go out there. Um and it you know it was a very successful group. So, you know, it was uh and you know, to be honest, it was a group that probably wasn't looking for change. Um, you know, they've they had a lot of success. Uh and you know, they hear some new guy, some old guy who is coming in to replace, you know, the all of their 30-something year old coaches or 20, you know, 20, I mean young guys.

SPEAKER_12 36:20

Right.

SPEAKER_07 36:21

And um so um I I got a chance to go out there and meet all the all the players, all the families, and um, including Brownie. And the thing that struck me about Brownie just the moment that I met him was was just the genuineness, the uh the politeness, um, you know, just you know what a great young man uh uh that he was. And you know, to be honest, my first thought was gosh, I hope he wants to stick around and play for me because I, you know, really feel like I could build a team around a kid like that. Um so you know, I had a chance.

SPEAKER_12 36:56

And that was, but and and that was really with limited viewing of his skating. I guess what I'm what I'm hearing you saying is what attracted to you is he was a good person.

SPEAKER_07 37:07

Yeah, I you know, I I I I had limited viewing of his skating. Um, you know, you know, to be honest, all those players were perfectly qualified to be on my team. Right. Um, but you know, I'm also looking for character people. You know, that's who we build our team around. And um, you know, he was he he was exhibit A in in in uh in character.

SPEAKER_12 37:28

And um Bob, was he a was he a vocal guy? Was he a lead by example kind of guy?

SPEAKER_07 37:36

He was more lead by example until something pissed him off. And you know, he was you know, he that's that's one of the things I loved about him. He's he you know, he wasn't getting in people's ears. He um, you know, he he was more uplifting and um and um you know primarily just led by the way that he played. You know, he played a disciplined game. He um, you know, he played a very competitive game. He was a fierce competitor. Um he wasn't losing many puck battles in the corners. But um, but yeah, every once in a while, you know, he'd get a little fired up. And you know, you know, to be honest, he was usually spot on when uh when um he was fired up.

SPEAKER_12 38:25

And Jared, I didn't have the chance to coach him. So uh you guys are closer to this than me. Um uh Bob was he a forward or was he a defenseman? He's a defenseman. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_09 38:38

Right up your alley, Drew.

SPEAKER_12 38:39

Drew's uh Drew's a D guy by hand. I like I like him already.

SPEAKER_07 38:42

Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, he he he he plays a heavy game. You know, he's fast. I would I would say more defensive oriented, but you know, he you know, he could he could get up the ice and join the play, and um you know, you know, good foot speed. Sound just a really good sound all-around player.

SPEAKER_09 39:02

You know, we're sitting here, three of us coaches who probably between the three of us have damn near close to 100 years of coaching experience. I think maybe maybe not that big of an example, it's not that big. Um, you know, for the players out there, because again, on this show, we want to look at this from all lenses, you know, parents, coaches, players. You didn't hear once from Coach Jacobek that he was this dynamo player. He was what you heard was, and what I tell all the kids who I coach as they're going to try for these club teams is the character, the confidence, um, but really a good teammate. And I tell my players who I coach at high school level, and even my own my own sons, have that character, walk into the ring, introduce yourself to the coach, you know, make it that you're respectful, that you care about your teammates. That's the key because as as you said, um, all those kids can play. And all as you continue to age and get into that 14, 15, 16, 18 you, most kids can sit and play. You want to be a good a good person first. And I think that's what's critical about this story today, and a lot of the lessons that people who didn't even know Brownie can continue from this. So that's a great point I want to make sure we mention.

SPEAKER_12 40:16

Bob, we talk a lot about brand, whether it's a hockey club or a hockey player. And just out of curiosity, can you talk a little bit about uh Brownie's brand from your view?

SPEAKER_07 40:31

You know, he he's he's just authentic, he's hardworking. Um, and you guys know this as a coach. All you all you can really ask for is to know what you're gonna get from a player day in and day out. He's that player. Um, you know, I mean, you know, hopefully as kids get older, you know, the variances in their play from game to game, you know, get a little bit tighter. Um his was razor thin. Um it's just um we knew we were gonna get from him. Um, and that's a tough, hard-nosed game. Uh, you he was gonna play discipline, he was gonna play smart. Um, he was gonna play a team game. And um, you know, I I don't know how to summarize that in one word, but but consistency is what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_12 41:23

Consistency is what I'm hearing. Yes, he uh that he he was able to get his game, he knew what his game was, and he played that game each time he played.

SPEAKER_07 41:34

He did.

SPEAKER_09 41:35

Yeah, we've got a good foundation on on Brownie as a player, Brownie as as a young man. Um when we come back from the break, we're gonna talk about you know that that awful tragedy and really how Bob, you as a leader and as as you know, an inspiration to these kids, help to lead this team through things. But before we do that, let's have a word from uh our one of our uh our sponsors, Big Bear. Um Drew, you want to jump into that or do you want me to take it?

SPEAKER_12 42:04

Absolutely, absolutely. This segment of Too Many Men on the Mic is brought to you by Big Bear Tournaments, your go-to for unforgettable youth hockey travel experiences. Big Bear hosts top-tier tournaments in some of the coolest hockey towns across North America. And one of the most popular early season events is filling quickly, which is the Peachtree Showdown in Atlanta, Georgia, the weekend of September 19th through 21st. Limited space remains at 10U through 18U. Register today at bigbeartournaments.com. And here's the best part the first team to apply for this event, email sales at bigbeartournaments.com, will be chosen to receive a special gift package to get their team ready for the upcoming season. Again, that is sales at bigbeartournaments.com after registering for Peachtree Showdown. Plan your next great hockey trip at bigbeartournaments.com and don't forget to tell them Too Many Men on the Mike sent you.

SPEAKER_09 43:09

And we're back to Too Many Men on the Mic here. We're joined by Coach Bob Jacobek of the Central State's Afton ATU team. Bob's joining us today to honor the legacy and talk about the impact that Colin Brown had on not just his team, his family, and his and the Afghan Americans, but the youth hockey or community as a whole in St. Louis. You know, Bob, um it's tough to remember back to this, but if I can ask you to take us back to that night in November in 2024 when, you know, of all things coming back from a hockey game, just a random act and just a terrible tragedy occurs. As a coach, as a father, as a man, share with us a little bit about what went through your mind. And just how you cope with that and how you not just for your own self and your own you know mental and in and emotional health, but you're now you're responsible for these other 19 young men. Um about that if you can. Yeah, I mean it and we all we're all gonna be leaking today, too. So let's uh let's not fool ourselves. So that's okay.

SPEAKER_07 44:27

November 23rd. I'll never forget the date. Um incidentally, it was my wedding anniversary. Um, I'm not sure we'll celebrate our anniversary again on November 23rd, but um yeah, I got the call from Calvin that night. Um had um onto the CBC Marquette hockey game. Met at about 9 30. I went home after the game, about 10 30. I'm getting ready to go to bed. We're playing Littleton the next morning. And uh I was in the kitchen, turning the lights off, checking everything, and come back, and I got a missed call from Calvin of all people. Yeah, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, did Brownie get hurt today? You know, what you know what happened? Um I mean, not on you know, not on my worst nightmares. I've imagined what he was going to tell me. Um and um it's and and and second of all, why are you calling me? I mean, that just shows you Brown family and and the type of people they are. Um he wanted to make sure that that Brownie's coach knew what was going on. Um the next morning. Um there's no way we were gonna play a hockey game. Um to be honest, we had no idea what was gonna happen with our season.

SPEAKER_12 45:56

Right.

SPEAKER_07 45:57

Um you know, we talked about it. You know, I uh told the boys what's meet at the rink. Um, you know, it it we met at the rink, there were lots of hugs. There was lots of I love you. Um there was, you know, I mean, 15-year-old kids. 16-year-old kids, I mean, they're they're it one of their best friends just got shot, one of their teammates, one of their leaders on their team. But not only that, I mean, these are 16-year-old kids being exposed to something that no 16-year-old kid should ever have to be exposed to, and you know, that's their own mortality. Um, so it, you know, it was it was tough. And you know, the tough thing is, is you know, there's no playbook for this. You know, kids are all grieving in different manners. Um, you know, some kids are shutting down, some kids are just flowing like waterworks. And and it's you know, it's it's just like that old adage, you don't coach any kid, any two kids the same way. You know, it's sort of the same thing with this. It's you know, everybody's dealing with this in different ways.

SPEAKER_12 47:11

Bob, I I I I I heard you just say that that you know there's there's not a playbook for this. And uh, and that's kind of what was going through my head as I was listening to your talk. And I love that you said, you know, let's meet at the rink. After the hugs, after the the teammates seeing each other, the families seeing each other. Uh can you share? Was it a was there an opportunity where a couple players stepped up and said something, or was that your opportunity as the coach to then stand up and share a message with the team? How did that go?

SPEAKER_07 47:52

Yeah, um I I mean not immediately. They you know, I think the the kids were all in shock. They were in shock. Some of them shut down. Uh, you know, some of them were grieving uncontrollably. Um, you know, I thought it was important for for our coaching staff to step up, just tell them, you know, hey, you know, we don't understand this. You know, and you know, I'm 59 years old. Um, I don't understand this. So I can't imagine what's going through your mind, but you know, I you know, we want you to know that we are here for you. Um you know, there's nothing that we can't talk about. Um so we had uh Sean Hazleton um uh come in. He spoke a little bit. We had grief counselors come in. This is this is a few days later. The organization was great. Um, you know, the rank is everyone's you know, safe spot, and um they opened the rink up for us for just you know, the boys just to go out and play, have some fun, hopefully for a few passing seconds, you know, um try and put this out of their 16-year-old minds. It's uh knowing that the minute they got off the ice and they got inside their own heads, it was it was uh it was gonna be you know forefront in their minds. Um so yeah, it's um we're still dealing with it. We're still dealing with it.

SPEAKER_09 49:28

There's not much to say to follow up uh what Bob Jacobek said in his interview. Um, I can just continue to reiterate the compassion, love, and and personally the relationship um you know that I was able to you know forge with Colin's parents um since my son played on that team last year. Uh Tracy, his mother even joined us on the mom's uh episode that will probably be hint hint, don't want to bury the lead, but spoiler alert, we'll probably be adding the mom's episode on the next best of uh next week. Um, but just a heartfelt uh interview, and uh I think it serves as a great reminder to parents, coaches, and players, uh cherish the time you have with each other and take a minute to you know hug each other, um, get to know each other and recognize the impact that you all make. Uh and no one can uh externalize that and is a better ambassador for Colin Brown's legacy, uh, besides his parents and his brother than Coach Jack, Coach Bobby Jack. So um we'll uh you know hopefully you'll go back and listen to the full episode, but you know, 72 acts of kindness, uh find it on Facebook and please uh consider um you know carrying on that legacy in your own way. This next episode, um, for those of you who regularly listen to the show, we had the opportunity, and when I say we, I mean me, had the opportunity to be live and in person at uh USA Hockey's coaching symposium for level five. Um Drew was not there. Drew was uh Drew felt it was more important to be out in Colorado moving his son into uh Colorado State University. Um but Drew did join us from uh from afar, and uh we had an awesome time at uh at um, and that was the royal weed because I was there, um, but had an awesome time at USA Hockey's level five symposium. And you know, thank you, huge thank you to Bob Mancini for making uh both Scott, Pooch, Pollock, and uh Bob Jablanik available. And then we actually had a chance, and this is where this clip is going to come into play, to talk with the heads uh or admin uh directors of both the Swedish and Finnish Ice Hockey Federation. Um, John Lynn of the Swedish Hockey Federation and Pierre Lucarilla of the Finnish Hockey Association also happen to be presenters at the Little Five Symposium. And we had a great opportunity to really pick their brains and understand um the challenges that are similar to what we have here in the North American model, both in America and Canada for youth hockey, and also get some insight into some of the unique um approaches that both Sweden and Finland take to uh youth hockey development and overall development. Um, in some instances, it really is feels counterintuitive. When you take a step back and look at it and you start to really digest what they do over in uh Sweden and Finland, you start to shake your head in agreement and say maybe there's some things that we should be bringing over here to the U.S. model. I don't want to bury the lead anymore, but have a listen to this clip as we talk to John Lynn of the Swedish Hockey Federation, Imperalucorilla of the Finnish Hockey Association about youth hockey development model in their respective countries, and recognize that once again Drew did not go to level five. Here's the clip by some friends from over the pond. Uh, we've got John Lynn from the Swedish Ice Hockey Association, Impero Lucarilla, Finnish Ice Hockey Association. So we've got the Swedes and the Finns. Thank goodness we don't have any Canadians here. Um, but oh I love this international flavor.

SPEAKER_12 53:06

We've got international small flavors.

SPEAKER_10 53:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 53:09

Um, but I think we have a good opportunity here to talk about and give folks back at home a really good perspective on youth hockey and how it's how things are done in Sweden and in Finland and where there's some synergy, where there's some differences, and and really why. And and and maybe there's some things that we can learn as as coaches and players and parents um from our friends, from our friends in Sweden and friends in Finland. So uh why don't we kick this off to John? John, why don't you start us off? Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then uh Drew and I will would love to hear more about the the Swedish Youth Hockey Association in progress.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Well, thank you, Yerdan. Thank you so much for for having me. Uh my name is Jon Lind and I work as director of education and research at the Swedish Ice Hockey Association, but I have a background as a player. Uh played at a national team level as a junior and then moved on coaching for like 10 years, both juniors and seniors in Sweden. Uh be working with the association now for the time flies, but I guess it's like eight years now. So that's my background.

SPEAKER_09 54:17

Jon, tell us a little bit about the journey for a Swedish hockey player from you know, we start at six U or mini mites here in the United States. So from that five, six, seven-year-old through, you know, 18, how does that look? What does that progression look like? And what are some things that are unique to Sweden and fuel some of the success that you've all had in player development over the years?

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Well, uh, we start at kind of the same age. Like we have our Learn to Play program, which starts uh by the age of five uh and it runs then to the age of seven. And it's a program run by the association where we provide like coach education to all the clubs, part of the program. We provide with education materials and we support them in this learn to play program. So basically, most of the players are starting their hockey journey in this program, and it's kind of looks like the same in most of the clubs, and from there we start to play uh hockey in teams, and in Sweden as well as in Finland, we play on very small surfaces uh from the age of eight to the age of uh uh under 12. So we play first two years, we have one-sixth of the ice, so very small area games, and we think this is really important for getting more reps in, better decision making, and for coaches not to coach the game. Let the players explore, uh, develop long term. Then we move on to play one-fourth of the ice, and then we move on to play one-third of the ice, uh, and then we start playing full ice when the players are U13. Uh, and one thing more that we have to promote long-term development in Sweden, we don't have tiers or divisions in youth hockey. So if you are, for example, U14, you play equally uh regardless of your level. We don't have levels, and we think this is important for long-term development because it cools down the system. We know that players are developing differently. We want to avoid uh looking at players as talents just due to physical maturity or psychological maturity. So we think this is a good way of actually cooling down and not having players stressed through the system. So the first time when you actually select players for a team is typically in Sweden for under 16. Then we have divisions in leagues. Uh and then from U16 in Sweden, uh, you move on to what we call hockey high schools. We have 27 certified on boys' side, six on female side, and this is programs tied to school where you can have hockey as a topic in school, so you can practice three times a week during the day as a school topic, and then you play with your club uh in the weekends, or also practice in the evenings. This gives us opportunity to have more time on ice, develop kind of the individual skills more, and then you have team practice with decision making and everything in the evenings. So that's basically the big picture of Swedish uh ice hockey for youth.

SPEAKER_10 57:32

Sure, you're muted there, buddy.

SPEAKER_12 57:36

I'm so sorry. John, I love that. What I was saying was the why it was on mute there was uh we run practices and we'll start at a sixth of an ice sheet like that, and then progress to another drill where maybe we're uh a fourth of the ice and then the third of the ice, and then ultimately we're using the whole ice surface. But I love that your development model is focused around the ice surface, and then I can and then I I I love how that graduates until ultimately you're playing full ice uh at at an older age uh than our kids are in the United States. I also like the no-level aspect of it because you're watching the kids all at the same time. Uh, U-14, for example, is a really interesting time, I think, for kids in development. Some are uh some have hit puberty, some haven't. Uh, and then that creates a whole dynamic uh with the player themselves. Why why am I not growing? I'm looking at my peers, they're growing, I'm not, or I am growing, my peers aren't. And so uh I love that you don't break it down into different levels. And I like the word you use, talent. You don't look at them as talent, you look at them as a group, and you're developing the group at the same time. What a cool model.

SPEAKER_09 58:56

So we don't often, I mean, so if you could see the room here, you would see that Jan and Pitter are right across from each other. So it's good to have a Finn and a Swede across from across from each other. Um so my uh my younger son actually has a Finnish goalie. He's played for us for the last two years. Uh, and so I'm gonna be excited to talk to him and his mom. They just got back from Finland when they were there for midsummer. Um, and before I I I go to you, Pira, first of all, I want to make sure I'm pronouncing your name correctly. But I look, I'm I'm looking up trying to pronounce your name, and it says that it means snowstorm. Is that the is that's awesome. So yes, it is so we've got a hockey player from Finland whose name is literally Snowstorm. But tell us a little bit about the Finnish program and how that compares and competes with Sweden.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Hopefully we can compete. Hopefully. Uh and I we I think we have been competing pretty well. So uh yeah, so Puro Lucarel is the name, and and uh I work as the head of coach development in Finnish uh Finnish Lizo K association. Um basic like our systems are really close, like similar. So I can be I can like 90% is is the same. So just from the get-go. Uh just to learn to play. Uh for us, it's lion hockey school, so everything uh our local uh probably not gonna see in in the picture, but it's uh it's a lion in in our flag also. So lion hockey school is where we kind of start in in five, six, seven years old. Uh so the same thing that uh in in Sweden. And then from uh U8 is the first teams, and from that it kind of builds up. Uh for us, we have tiers before than Sweden has, but but what normally happens is those are the goal is to find players and kids starting from different ages the right place to play in. So that and and that let's say a bigger club, they have double A, triple A, um 1A teams, but they're practice together. So that's a one team. That though those games are just then put so that the the kids are put in place where they can succeed, uh, and you can play in different levels, and and so it's not that you're put to double A team and you practice with that team. So it's uh it's it's normal normally it's one age group and uh same coaching and everything like that. So um so basically it's it's the same. Um we play uh up until even in U13 we play part of the games in in smaller ice, so three and three cross-sized. So part of the season is is five on five full ice, uh starting uh from U11. Uh before that is cross-size smaller ice games, and and even in U11, U12, U13, part of the games are uh cross-sized still. So use U11, Uh it's like half is cross-size, three on three, half is five, five on five on big ice, uh, and and and building from there. Um and then pretty much the same that in Sweden. Uh we start counting goals. So the parents are seeing the score on the on the board first time when we're in U11. Before that, you're not gonna see a score anywhere. Um, and then the statistics, we're gonna start showing statistics in U14. Uh, so you're not gonna find whose kid has scored more goals than somebody else's before that. So uh just to kind of take it easy because development takes time and and and nowadays I feel like everybody's a rush to be really good at early ages, but a lot of times that's just that's not how it go goes. So you can you can be really good at hockey at 15 compared to other people because just because you've done a lot of hockey, but that means also that you haven't done necessarily a lot more uh other sports uh or or being really uh active outside the ring. So that usually comes and bites you when you're 18, 19, 20, somebody, or a lot of people actually comes comes to your level and and and passes you just because if uh uh you've been just focused on one sport. So that's what we want to kind of compete against. Because we know from research and and how how player development goes that I've I've said this in in multiple occasions where I've been speaking. I don't remember where I heard it, but I like the quote like if you want you want your kid to be the best at U12 or U20 uh or in juniors or in at 25, so pick one because you're not gonna have both. Or it's extremely rare that you're gonna see that the same player being really you you got these exceptional generational talents, but those are really far and few apart.

SPEAKER_12 1:03:57

So uh yeah. Well, Jared, I I uh I two takeaways, and I just wrote them down because I didn't want to uh forget it or lose it. No scores until U11 and no stats until U14. So if you're a parent listening to this podcast or uh watching it on YouTube, hear that out. Uh they have a model that's working for them, and they don't even turn the scoreboard on until U11. They've got a model that's working for them, they're not even tracking stats until the players are 14 years old. That's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:35

Yeah, I I I look at this too from a coaching lens, and um as this model has developed since you both have been involved with your respective associations, has there been incremental changes? Has this been something that's been more generational? It's just been this is the culture of Finnish and Swedish hockey, or was there like a turning point, similar to what the United States had with our ADM, uh, that there was a turning point where you know Hockey Sweden or Hockey Finland said, hey, we're going to do it this way. And then how do you get coaches? How did you get coaches on board, or is there consistency across across different ages? Ages.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Um I can take that, uh, but I think at least in Finland, I think the same is in Sweden because we are we can't afford to lose any kids. We got in Finland, we got total number of players that we have in the country, combining every player is about 68,000. And we got under like 30, 35,000 junior players. So if we would to do it um the other way, building materials, cutting kids off, like we wouldn't have The sport, like who would play it? So we have to take care of every kid. And also because we know, like, you cannot say from a 12-year-old 15-year-old that who's gonna be a great player or not. You just you can take a wild guess, but honestly, you're not gonna know. So it's it's as long as possible to as many as possible with the best possible quality coaching. And then let's see when everybody's 25 and their brains are fully developed and they're adults, let's see then where we are.

SPEAKER_12 1:06:34

John, anything you want to add to that uh from your own experience? Was that a was that a is it a cultural thing, or was there a point in time to Jared's question where you said, you know, this is what we're gonna do from here on out?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

No, I I think it kind of develops organically within our system. Also, we have the same situation with not so many players, so we can't afford to lose anyone. Uh so we kind of made changes accordingly, uh aligned with where new knowledge and new research came out. Like, for example, if you know it's better to play in small area games, we did research together with the Finnish Federation to find out the optimal surfaces. We also find out those kind of things to cool down the system. We don't need scoreboards either. We count the goals, but we don't have standings in leagues until they're used 13 either. So it's kind of more organically developed as uh research could support our decisions. So we progressively uh try to be better all the time, uh, just to have this long-term and to Pierce point, I I think the long-term development is about giving everyone the chance because we never know who's going to make it in the end. And I used to say the example where there's research from an NHL draft, and we can assume that the scouts in NHL, around 400 of them fully employed, are the best at their job in the world because they're scouting for the best league in the world. I think we can agree on that. And they are following the players for two years after puberty. But when we look at the results from the draft, they can only predict one and a half round after that. It's around the same amount of players from third to seventh round who is making to the NHL. So they can't even predict who is going to make it all the way. And two years ago, 15.7% of the players in NHL was undrafted. But sometimes we put it in the hands of volunteer, parents, coaches to try and select who is going to be the best. And a lot of times they do more harm than they do good, because what they typically see as talent is physical and biological maturation, not talent. So they mix up temporary physical ability for being talent because they say, I can see if a player's talent or have hockey sense. But what they see is a fast player getting faster to the puck, which gives the player more time with a puck. But it's not hockey sense, it's not talent, it's just physical ability. And this is really hard to separate. So I think we need to build systems that are long-term and give players the time to develop.

unknown 1:09:15

St.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:16

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SPEAKER_10 1:10:51

All right, back to the show.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:00

Well, besides the accents that are clearly different than us here in the United States or Canada, you know, you can really tell that no matter what country you're in, when you're associated with our game, with hockey and with youth hockey, there's a lot of passion. Um, I thought it was fascinating to hear John and uh Pear talk about you know the constraints that they have because of just their population as compared to countries like the United States and Canada and the way they you know create a culture of development by you know not forcing kids to you know tier until they're much later on in their development. And it seems to be working. Um not only are they producing high-level hockey players here in North America from college, the juniors, and the NHL, but the Swedish and Finnish professional leagues are some of the best leagues in the world. Um, and so I think it's just another opportunity for American and Canadian, the North American uh development models um and coaches and administrators to you know sharpen their tools and and add different tools to their toolbox to help us develop because no two kids are alike, no two programs are alike, and there's no one way to get to uh to enjoying the sport that we play. And that's a great segue as we look here now into another fast, fast growing segment of youth hockey and hockey in general, and that's the girls' sport, the women's sport. And Drew and I, over the past couple of years, have been coaching girls uh with a lot more frequency than we had when we were when we were younger coaches. Um, and really has come to the forefront here as we've gone into high school and we've had three or four girls on the high school teams that we coach. And we thought it was just a great opportunity to bring in a expert when it comes to the the girls' game and how to develop great uh youth hockey players who are you just so happen to be girls, and that's Rachel Bartlett, who's the head coach for the Chesterfield AA Lady Falcons. Rachel's also a close friend of mine who I've known for almost 20 years. Um, she's a displaced Canadian here in St. Louis, along with the displaced Michigander, so we're kindred spirits. Um, but she had some great insight and really some great um what I would call advice. You know, the facts are right now are the majority of coaches are for youth hockey are men. And as we continue to see more and more girls raise their hand and put the skates on and want to play this sport, it's really important for coaches to understand the communication styles and the differences in in you know communicating and coaching and understanding how girls sometimes are a little different than boys. And I thought a great poignant uh piece of advice that Rachel gave to Drew and I as coaches who are coaching both boys and girls, she said, boys feel good when they play good, girls play good when they feel good. And that sounds like a little word salad, but it made so much sense. And a lot of what Rachel shared with us in this episode, Drew and I have taken to heart and have put into action on the ice. And some of our best moments this last year came from practicing games with our girl players. So have a listen, especially for you coaches out there who are coaching girls, uh, maybe uh more regularly than you have in the past. And um, let's see how we can grow this game for everyone. Here's Rachel. Tube today, do not adjust your screen. There are three of us here today. We are really, really excited to uh to welcome in our first live in studio. I don't know if we call her a guest. Do we call her a contributor? She probably knows more about hockey than both of us.

SPEAKER_12 1:14:52

We cleaned before she came.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:53

Absolutely. So with us today is Coach Rachel Bartlett of the Lady Falcons out of wonderful Chesterfield. For all of you that can see at home. Wonderful Chesterfield, we're repping our friends to the west uh double-A program. Um Rachel's here to help us talk about and tackle some great topics today. But I guess before we get started, Rachel, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:16

I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so so much for having me.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:18

A little closer to that microphone, Rachel. Yeah, it's um well, just for our audience out there, give a little background for Rachel. Rachel, um, I've personally known Rachel for over 15 years. Yeah. Over 15. We actually met, and this is gonna sound funny. We met at a bar through mutual friends. Um there we go. So our our good friend Tom Wiley and Rachel's husband, Tony, um, are good friends. We met, um, and we basically bored the death out of Tom and his wife, my wife and and Rachel's husband, because all we did was talk about the wonders of being uh living on lakes and being from Michigan. And you know, I get I get a lot of grief for sometimes my accent, but uh why don't you say a few words or if if you haven't figured it out at home? Rachel is from Sarnia.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:11

Sarnia, Ontario.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:12

Sarnia, Ontario across the mighty blue water bridge. Has been in St. Louis how long?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:16

Oh my god, since 1998. I came down here for school.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:21

That's almost as long as you, Drew. I know, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:25

Um came down for school and uh met a St. Louis boy and they trap you.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:29

I have heard I've heard that about a lot of folks in St. Louis. Um, well, Drew and I, our relationship from a hockey standpoint started with Rachel because she served with both Drew and I on the board for the Rockets. And uh she had a wonderful opportunity to go and and really be a trailblazer and a starter for girls' hockey out in Chesterfield. And so before we get into our topics, why don't you give us a little bit of background into um I mean, everybody assumes you're from Canada so you played hockey and they're right in this case, but talk to us about your coaching career, just how things have just grown exponentially for you in the girls' game here in St. Louis, because I think it's something that's very exciting and very important for people to hear about. I always say, look, hockey is part of and feeds into your identity, it does not define you. And here's what I mean by that you play hockey and you're going to be a hockey player, hopefully for far longer than you're ever gonna have to do another evaluation or tryout. And so, no matter what team you play for, no matter what level you're at, no matter what coach you play for, your identity doesn't change. You're you're playing hockey or you're a hockey player. And as long as you keep that front and center, and what I tell folks, and don't let the outcome define you, but let the outcome really propel you, then that should ease your anxiety. That being said, not everybody hears that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_12 1:20:23

I was waiting for the ism. There's usually an ism that Jared will drop out there. There wasn't an ism so eloquently said, but uh, but yeah, I think it's a great place to start because not everybody knows the difference between an evaluation and a tryout.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:36

Yeah, you're right. I mean, evaluations, I almost think of it as parent-teacher conferences, right? You have a couple of evaluations and a couple of touches throughout the year, one-on-one meetings, those are more evaluations, whereas the tryout is a little bit more cutthroat. You're trying to make a team, you're trying to prove yourself. Um, and that is where the anxiety, especially for the kids and the parents, is very, very high.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:58

Yeah, I I think if you look at things from an evaluation standpoint, you get a group of hockey-minded, hockey-centric coaches and directors and people who are evaluating. Their goal is not to create the best team, their goal is to place you on a team where you're gonna get the most development, the most touches. And when you get more touches, you have more fun. Absolutely. And you get better, and hockey is more fun the better you get at it. So I think it's a there it is. There's the but I think it's you know, tryouts are definitely a short-term sprint. Yep. And evaluations for me are are much more of um where you are on the curve and getting better on the curve.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:44

Throughout the year, and we've we've had players where they just make the team and by the end of the year their their development's incredible and they go, they go on and do great things.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:53

Yeah, and and so I think I think a key here, the three of us are coaches. We've all been a part of evaluations and tryouts. Um let's talk about giving some tips to these players out there, um, especially those players who are, again, in the 90% of our audience, they're they're trying out or they're they're going to these evaluations to get placed on a team, whether it's an A-level team, a B level team, a C level team, what are the tips that we can share with them on not just how to prepare, but what are coaches really, really looking for?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

I think I think a big part of it is getting the kids back on the ice before, make sure that they're it's not the first time they've touched the ice in six months. Yep. Um, I think even just public skating, you don't have to pay for you know a lot of one-on-ones. Just get them out there and enjoy it. Let them have fun, let them chase their brother or sister around the public, you know, public skating, uh, obviously with safety. Um, but it is a case of just get them out there because you can tell within, you know, the way that we evaluate is is you can really tell that you're trying to figure out the top and the bottom kids and the kids that just don't have the quickness or the lateral edges um or the speed, those are quickly placed within I probably say the first 10 minutes of that lower level.

SPEAKER_12 1:23:08

Yeah, we talked uh, I think it was on last week's show a little bit about that. And just, you know, if you're a youth hockey organization, you're thinking about the year and how you want to start, just the importance of pre-skates.

SPEAKER_11 1:23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 1:23:19

Uh not everybody has been on the ice. Uh kids are playing baseball across. Uh, we had a different episode a couple weeks ago where we had players call in from a variety of sports that they were doing this summer and how those skills and activities translate over into hockey uh while also uh providing them some fun during the summer.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 1:23:36

So pre-skates, I agree, huge part of that. And I love what you said about the top and bottom.

SPEAKER_11 1:23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:41

Yeah, I think um in the moment, with the whether it's you're in a tryout or in an evaluation, I think the biggest thing that I can preach, uh, I say this to my players, is consistency. Yeah. Um you can go out there and because you feel there's a pressure, you feel you have to do something, um, it's like it's kind of like that. What do you do when no one's watching? You know, and I think that that's that's another ism. There you go. What do you do when no one's watching? It's kind of like if you're only going out there in the brief and and you're playing a certain way because you feel there's some pressure, what are you doing like shift to shift? Um, or what are you doing if there's a drill component to the tryout or the evaluation? What are you doing when it's not your turn?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:30

Every coach is watching that, and I think it's a matter, you know, especially when you're getting to some of these higher level teams through the tryout process, um, most of the kids have relative skill levels. And so you have to like recognize that there are things that you do without having the puck on your stick or without being in the spirit, you know, the play. How do you come into the rink? What are you doing in between drills? How are you interacting with your teammates? These are things that coaches pick up on. I talk about it. I've been in that room.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:01

Well, and then during the trials, a lot of times we will have a scrimmage at the very end. And that's where you really pick up like it's one thing. I think, I think the stats are, I mean, it's only the the puck is on your stick such a short period of time in every game, right? What is the player doing to support their teammate on and off the ice, right? So are they getting open? Are they making the effort to get open for the puck? Are they on the bench rolling their eyes and saying what they should, what that player should have done, right? The negativity, the positivity on the bench. The bench is the engine to the whole team.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:33

The bench drives the break that down as I'm right there. No, no, no, no, no. We we have a we have a rule on this show. We're all thieves. Exactly. I love that. I love it, right? The bench is the engine.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:46

It's the engine of the team. So if the and if the engine is positive and everybody's moving in the right direction, it's fantastic. If you have and another thing, a difference between the girls and the boys is I really think the girls have to feel good in order to play good. The boys have to play good in order to feel good.

SPEAKER_11 1:26:03

Right. Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:04

So basically, with the girls program, with the girls' um culture, if you have, you know, 18 other players and teammates on the bench cheering for you, you then feel like you can make a mistake. And I tell the kids, go out, make mistakes. Don't just stay in your comfort zone, right? Go out, make mistakes. If you have a bench who is rolling their eyes and they're negative and just, you know, kind of beating each other down, then you play very tight. You play like you just, you don't, you don't want to make a mistake and you're so worried and you're so scared. And the ability to see these kids just go out there and support each other with girls' hockey leads to a lot of Taylor Swift songs and you know, and overnight for sure at the 12U level, right? Yeah. And as they get older, the friendships you see the girls in middle school kind of go fluid through schools, but it's the hockey friends that keep each other supportive.

SPEAKER_09 1:26:59

I told you she was a better coach, that's true.

SPEAKER_12 1:27:02

Well, I just love that you're talking you're touching not only on things that are happening on the ice, especially when you're talking about away from the puck. Uh, I'm a sucker for a back checker.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:11

Every time I see a back checker, I'm doesn't do your heart good. Like it does. It does.

SPEAKER_12 1:27:16

Love it. Love it. But you're also talking about things like attitude and tangibles, things that have nothing to do with putting on a pair of skates and just you as a person and you as a good teammate.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:25

Yeah. Let's be honest, Drew. Drew likes back checkers because he's a lazy defenseman. He wants to wants to point fingers at the forward.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:32

What are you talking about? I did my and it's always a goal, it's called my Drew's world.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:36

I had my guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:37

Oh me. I I love that you said girls need to feel good to play better. Boys play to the opposite. Yeah. And and I don't know if I I almost think that that might be more healthier no matter if you're a boy or a girl. I agree. Right. And we have been in situations where you have one or two kids on the bench, and it's it it's especially can be tough to manage in high school because in high school it's kind of like this mixing bowl of different skill levels. You'll have a triple A, triple A, Central States kids, and you'll have some B level players. And like, you know, the great teams have the higher level kids to your point supporting all of their teams. Everybody. And sometimes that's hard because you get frustrated and you realize that hey, you want to win this game just as much as your club game and this person may not quite have completed their journey or is as far on their journey as you are. And so I think that um whether you call it toxic you know you know trying to get rid of all the toxins and and keep that bench as positive as possible that falls on on the coaches. But coaches are going to put together teams they're not going to want a per a player on that team who's going to make that job even harder. That's a job you're going to have to have but as a coach I know that's already going to be the hardest job hockey part's the easy part. Managing the team and the in the chemistry and the personalities that's not something I want to make harder on myself absolutely by bringing a a jerk on the team Rachel I've got a question for you uh compete and consistency.

SPEAKER_12 1:29:12

We talked about it at the beginning of this segment. But uh are you watching the kids shift to shift uh and what I mean is are you looking for that consistency shift to shift?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:23

Do you notice if a kid's giving a really great shift and then maybe he's backing off does that come into play in when you're in evaluation what I what I find again you may find a lot of those kids are nervous too right so if they are very nervous they'll play very very tight. And so you'll see all of a sudden you're thinking uh I'm not too sure about this kid by the end especially maybe the second tryout right they look great.

SPEAKER_12 1:29:47

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:47

They warm up yes they just warm up and and again trying to keep the evaluations just positive by running you know at the scrimmage I usually usually do a scrimmage at the very end. So by running you know a positive bench and staying on the bench I actually like to get a look at what happens to the kids when they're on the bench how positive how are they cheering for each other or are they just rolling their eyes thinking well why didn't they do that right? Well and we just talked about time and nervous you know being being being nervous is there an optimum number of days in your opinion on a evaluation or tryout is it two skates is it three skates for you what what do you think is the kind of the magic number we do two camps and then two tryouts and I I like those and I mean camp you're supposed to just kind of get everything kind of you know starting to feel your best by the time you do the tryout but in some ways too we are we are looking we see we see the the um type of energy the player gives um the type of skill level the aggressiveness in the corners um the type of breakout do they know position where they're supposed to be um so we're really looking at everything yeah I think that's a key for we mentioned it before players have to recognize every time they touch the ice and they're in front of eyes absolutely that treat it like treat it like a game.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:03

Yep I think you made a comment about nervousness and and I have been on the ice in evaluations and tryouts in a supporting role. I think it's important for those coaches and directors and organizations to recognize if a kid is maybe nervous or there's some anxiety, go talk to them. Yeah. Hey man, go talk to them. And don't don't give them hints on what to do say hey how are you feeling what do you do next shift? Like what you know talk to them and get them feeling I also like to see the leadership too of those majors.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:34

Are they are they making the minors feel comfortable? Are they cheering them on? Are they going out of their or are they just talking to their other major friends right and clicking up they need to kind of open up and that tells me what type of leadership that you have on your team too and that's a healthy team.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:51

We've been talking here now for about 10 11 minutes and not once have we talked about uh stride crossovers you know what we're talking about are the things that make you a better teammate the things that should be driving Bob Mancini says it best what's the best trait any hockey player can have is love for the game. And I think those intangibles the compete level the leadership and and are you picking people up versus you know knocking them down that's stuff that as a player you absolutely just have that in the forefront of your mind and you will be successful no matter what team you land on. Remember it's about you're a hockey player you're playing hockey it doesn't define you but what I'm really hearing you say is focus on the things you can control. Absolutely right and that's a great segue to talk about our parents how much time do we have five minutes I have I have fantastic parents I gotta tell you like great I really do have great parents and and I would say again it's like the 99 one rule 99% of families involved in hockey and even that 1% they're not out there it's just as a parent it's about supporting the effort not the end result or the performance um and I think you got to have some trust you got to trust that by the end of this process whether it's a tryout or an evaluation that one your son or daughter is going to be in the best situation for them to continue having fun on their hockey journey. And two if they aren't exactly on the on the perfect team well they got a lifetime ahead of them and there's always some positives to find from that.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:38

I think and too as a parent I think you can control what you can control right if uh if you feel that your kid has been misplaced then you go out there and have the best season you can I mean you do the best you can and be that leader that they're looking for and and try and prove everyone wrong.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:54

Yeah I just want to chime in here with uh you know the uh trust the process I heard uh us just talk about a minute ago but if you're a new coach with a new group of parents um some parents might look at trusting the process and the outcome of that process is just simply winning winning games. And so if we're losing games then I can't trust the process and that might mean that you know maybe my kid's not going to develop maybe I perhaps have the wrong coach. So I want to dispel that fallacy because hockey is a journey and it's a development uh path and you develop throughout the year. So what happens in your first month of games does not dictate how you're gonna finish the season.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:39

Absolutely yeah we've we've all been part of teams that have have had rough starts yep rough starts. I I I I I had a son who was on I have a son he was on a team that was really really bad at the end of the season. They went to nationals and won went to the semis that year. Wow and so it is it's not only just a journey on your on your time of uh playing this sport but it's like the journey sometimes is is happening throughout the season and so I I just feel like in my heart of hearts like winning is a part of development and there is an aspect to winning um that helps with developing chasing the win is what I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:21

Yeah um I like to put the team somewhere in the middle where you win some win half the games lose half the games and see how we develop throughout the season and by the end of the season just really take those stats and and see how everything's going you have so many so much stuff out your huddle right now that can show you all the shooting that you're doing and the faceoff wins and all that stuff. And I love what you've got a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_12 1:35:42

I love what you just said because you you almost it's it's better to see how your team how your team responds to a little adversity.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:50

Adversity absolutely if you win all of your games it's a bit of a waste of a season you were kind of displaced right you're not gonna find too many people at an ice rink who are more excited about being at the ice rink and coaching young people than Rachel and I hope that came through in her interview um she's a great hockey coach period full stop uh who just happens to be a female hockey coach and a former female hockey player um and if you're coaching like I said uh young girls at the 8U 6U 10 you level it's so important that we continue this upward trend of having to be one of the fastest growing aspects of of our game um we just saw four more teams added to the PWHL and um that's gonna grow that's gonna continue to grow so super exciting and if you get a chance if you're out there at Meryville especially and you see Rachel running around with her coach's gear on um say hi to her say hey I heard you had too many men on the mic with coach Drew and Coach Jared um you'll bring a smile to your her face and you'll probably make her late to get on the ice because she'll want to talk your ear off but Rachel's awesome one of the things that we do here and that was one of our missions when we started this podcast was to give a voice to all youth hockey organizations across the country and not just in the traditional NHL markets like Boston, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, um Pittsburgh and Philly, but all around the country and Drew I'll take my hat off to him even though he didn't go to level five has done a phenomenal job of outreach and we've talked to over 20 different youth hockey organizations around the country many of them in markets like Boise Idaho or Portland Oregon or um Las Vegas uh places where you don't typically think of ice hockey and what's fascinating is is that's where the game is growing so fast and so quickly we had an opportunity to talk to Carlos Villa who's one of the coaches for the Pensacola Junior Ice Flyers down in Pensacola Florida. And it was just a fascinating conversation as we looked at his journey from New Jersey down to Pensacola and being able to coach the game he loves and also coach with his dad who uh who is is also down there in Pensacola with him as they're growing that organization and really overcoming some of the challenges of not having a lot of ice rinks nearby and so there's a little bit of extra travel for some of these teams to go play other other organizations across the panhandle and into Georgia and into even into Nashville um but just a thriving young youth hockey organization uh that just so happens to have uh an SPHL team there in the Pensacola Flyers so have a listen to Carlos as he talks a little bit about the journey that he's been on and the growth and how uh pensacola junior ice flyers are thriving there down in uh in in the Sunbelt here have a listen yeah Carlos so absolutely guys yeah tell us about pensacola junior ice flyers youth hockey uh tell us a little bit about the organization how many teams are in your organization from six you all the way up to 18 you and is it girls and boys yeah so it's it's girls and boys we got uh six you all the way up until uh to 18U um you know most of our teams here are pretty much house teams we do have some travel teams we have uh actually um this year we have two 12U travel teams we have a 14U travel team uh we have a 10 U travel team and then um we also have 6U house 8U house 10U house 12 14 16 and 18U all house teams and those house teams we do go um we usually we shoot to compete in about three to four tournaments a year um you know I know I am speaking you know for for my team I actually am the head coach of the 8U team as well um with my actually convinced my father to do it with me my parents moved down here in 2021 and then I followed them in 23.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:57

So I convinced my dad last year I said hey you know like let's let's just go coach let's let let's do it together and um we uh we started coaching the 8U team together and um yeah we we try to shoot for about three to four tournaments we got some some great tournaments lined up this year and um yeah I mean we're we're growing we're a really um growing organization you know unfortunately we're we're a little handicapped in terms of ice time because ice uh is is hard to come by in in Pensacola we're we're trying to find a way to build a full-time ice facility here it's it's um you know it's a little bit difficult we're trying to to find a way to get it done but right now we play out of the Bay Center the Pensacola Bay Center which is where the big ice flyers the FTHL team the the ice flyers play out of so we share that ice facility with them um and uh yeah I mean we're we're we're a growing organization and uh this is my first year in the coach in chief spot so I'm looking forward to helping the organization as much as I can I'm I'm a young guy I plan on being here for a long time so I'm gonna try to help the organization grow as much as possible.

SPEAKER_12 1:40:59

Well Jared I got to dig into this for just a second you got uh you got dad and son dynamic uh coaching together so uh Carlos what what what what happens there I mean do you have a great practice plan uh ready for your teams and then uh your dad looks at it and goes we're not doing that so you know it's it's funny enough um you know I I can I kind of go into him last year I said hey you know I think this would be a lot of fun I think we should do it and um you know I I I played hockey for a long time and um you know my dad you know growing up in Jersey City he he didn't play a lot of organized hockey but he was on skates at times and um so he's not uh he's not the best skater but he's like listen I'll just go out there and and you kind of just direct me on what we're doing and um you know I'll do my best but he does a great job with the kids the kids love him and and he has an absolute blast doing it but um it definitely uh once in a while we'll uh we'll talk about you know practice plans and what we want to do and you know maybe we'll have some disagreements here or there but other other than that it it's honestly so much fun it's such a blast to get to do it with him and get to um do something together.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:06

I I'm really enjoying it. I'm having a blast.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:08

I mean you get to be out there on a sheet of ice with a bunch of eight year olds and your dad um and I imagine that your dad probably communicates very well with the eight year olds if he's anything like my dad um which is you know they they they just seem to have a uh you know especially if if he's a grandfather like my dad is they just seem to have that appreciation and love and I think that that's that's got to be a huge help for you. You know as we look here it looks like you guys have about uh 12 12 teams total so probably anywhere from what 120 to 150 skaters in your organization.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:46

Yeah yeah give or give or take there and like I said we're actually we're actually growing in numbers each year and and unfortunately we have a we have a learn to play program that we also do and um you know right now we have a lot of people on the wait list a lot of people trying to get in and and get signed up to do it but um you know with the restriction on ice time it's tough to to get every kid in so there are kids unfortunately that you know we we're having to you know turn away and have them try again next year because it's it's so we're so handicapped in terms of ice time the game has really grown in the South like big time it it really um has grown a lot people are interested in hockey the ice wires are selling out all the time and and surprisingly enough I mean last year they they struggled the the the pro team I'm saying you know they they struggled a lot and they still were selling out and um and people enjoy the game and a lot of people are moving down here. I mean Florida is rapidly growing we have a lot of people moving from from the northeast and um and and people want to play hockey and they're looking for hockey so it's uh it's really growing so I'm really hoping that um you know the more exposure to the program the bigger the program gets we can finally convince the city and convince the the county to that a rink is necessary. This is what we need.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:56

There's a lot of threads to pull on there and um I'm glad that we did our pre-flight here on the show. Real quick, you know if if if you're going down that path on the rink, uh Drew and I have some experience doing that here in the St. Louis area and we actually know some folks who have built rinks in Florida that are that are located here in St. Louis so we could take that offline but I want to make sure you know jot that down so that we don't forget about it because when I hear that you're you've got one facility you're turning kids away I I know that's got to be so hard um for you as a coach and for um you know uh you know the parents um what other you know you're playing on base and I gotta imagine that there's a pretty fair number of transplant families you know with with with different service uh member you know stationed on rotation do you get a lot of support from the the base do you get a lot of of members who are like you said transplants with the military is there any type of relationship there um you know and maybe an appetite to to grow that existing facility so there isn't much relationship with the base the the rink itself the base center is actually located off base it's actually located right in downtown pensacola and um and and the ice wires itself it it doesn't have too much relation to to the military and to the um you know obviously the the team name is named after the you know the blue angels and we do a lot of you know support with those guys but um you know we do get a lot of of military families military members that are that are stationed down here or or you know working down here that they will sign their kids up from hockey you know and then unfortunately they get moved off and they have to go do something else and they they do move and and that is unfortunate because we I you know I've had the experience even last year I met a a ton of great people um great dads great coaches great kids and um you know they had to move and and they had to go elsewhere so it does you know unfortunately think but let me tell you every every single one of them that I talked to said we all want to come back and that's one thing about you know Pensacola and about you know being down here and uh the organization you know they love it and and people are happy and and like I said it's growing so people want to come back here once they they wrap up duty and and wrap up uh you know what whatever contract they're serving and and they they eventually want to come back to Pensacola.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:19

So it's a like I said it's a really it's a growing place it's a beautiful place and um you know the game is is rapidly growing we have a street hockey rink that's literally right on the sand down at the beach. I don't know if you guys have ever been to Pensacola beach by far the most beautiful beach in the country.

SPEAKER_09 1:46:33

It's gorgeous humble brag humble bragg right on the beach humble brag not a big deal humble bragg MD's not a big deal yeah it's unbelievable it's unbelievable let me tell you you come you come to this beach I I my friends make jokes all the time because I used to say you're swimming with dolphins and that's no exaggeration you're literally swimming with dolphins I mean I don't know Jer Jersey Shore may have something to say about all that the Jersey Shore the Jersey Shore can't compete or siesta or Siesta Key I don't know Siesta Key's not too I don't know I let me tell you I'm right right up there with him well you you mentioned street hockey and that actually was going to lead into my kind of a follow up there you know Drew and I um if you've listened to the show and if you haven't then you know get get with the program Carlos get on the show um we were a part of a a youth hockey organization on the board not just as coaches for the better part of a decade and ICE is a challenge in so many markets even traditional markets like St. Louis and what we were doing is we were um we were having street hockey ball hockey floor hockey and you know there's opportunities to partner with schools to help grow the game um I was actually listening to a a show today on uh Sirius XM where they were talking about the NFL is introducing flag football and it's probably gonna be a freaking uh professional flag football league and and they see it as I mean they see it as just building their own fan base you know my question is is you know uh the NHL is kind of in and out when it comes to the the non-ice hockey um but do you also have any you know connection relationships with the Lightning or with the Panthers you know the NHL is also trying to build their fan base and I think they might be trying to get a team in Houston or a team in Atlanta and Pensacola is not too far from either of those cities if you look at a map. So you know do you have those type of relationships and what other things um aside from the street hockey or even roller hockey are you guys trying to do to get kids out there with a stick in hand and learning the game?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:34

Well yeah so um you know as far since I have been with the organization we haven't done anything in particular with the Panthers of the Lightning um Tampa's about six and a half hours from Pensacola and um Fort Lauderdale is you're looking at about 10 and a half maybe maybe even 12 in some cases it's it's a bit of a ride. I'd love to do stuff with them. You know I think uh like I said we're a very young organization we got a great board this year um you know our president vice president uh we we have a great great group and I think um you know our board or as a whole as a as a group really wants to develop the kids develop the the organization and grow the organization long term um so I think uh you know that may be something we explore down the road um you know we're trying to do more with with the actual the SPHL team that's here the the ice ice wives we're trying to do more with those guys um and um as far as you know trying to get you know sticks in people's hands I you know I know that the beach like I said the roller rink down at the beach has its own has its own league now they have a a ball hockey league and a and a roller hockey league that they have consistent people playing every Sunday they play a lot on Sunday mornings um they do clinics for the kids over the summer where they they have roller hockey clinics street hockey clinics down down at the beach so you know there's there's a lot of opportunity and I think that um you know with you know hopefully like I I I You know, I keep going back to it, but hopefully with the creation of a rink, I think that will really blossom and really open up the opportunity to hold, you know, summer camps, hold um, you know, birthday parties where people could go ice skate and be like, wow, I really like this. You know, I want this is something I want to continue to do. I want to try skating. I want to try playing hockey. You know, I I think little things like that make such a big difference. And um, you know, hopefully, you know, the the the creation of the rink will really uh really grow it and and grow the league even more and grow the love of the game even more because it really is the best game in the world, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_12 1:50:33

Sounds like you've got some incredible demand on there. That is just awesome. And uh, you know, no surprise. Uh look at uh the last uh handful of years of Stanley Cup winners. I mean, it's been it's been driving a lot of excitement for the game. I I guess I want to come back to coaching real quick, Carlos. You said you're a young organization and uh it sounds like uh you're newer to the organization too. How did you become the the coach in chief of the organization down there?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:00

Well, that's actually, you know, that's actually a funny story. So, like I said, you know, I joined the league last year, um, you know, to coach the AU team, you know, I volunteered. I'm only 25. Um, and uh I just moved down here uh at you know in 2023, and um, you know, I joined the league in 2024, 2025 season to to coach, and then uh I get a call on July 4th on Independence Day. And you know, I'm having a good time. You know, the the drinks are flowing, everybody's happy, and um I get a call. And basically the the summary of the call was listen, we need you to do this, and um we you know we need you to sign up and and and do this. We we need somebody to take this this position on, and um, and we'll we'll help you out and we'll we'll give you guidance. And and uh Lindsay, who's our registrar, she is she's phenomenal, and she's the one I I worked really close with last year on getting a lot of things done for the league. And um, and she called me and she's like, Listen, we need you to do it. And and when Lindsay said, You know, we need you to do it. I looked at my dad and he's like, my dad was actually president of Little League back when we were growing up in Connecticut, and he's like, he's like, You're gonna get a lot of phone calls. He's like, You're gonna get a lot of phone calls. And um, but I I signed up and it's uh it's been tough, but it's been a lot of fun. You know, it's um I like I said, we have a wonderful board, we have a great group, um, who's all you know, we all have the same objective to growing the league and and getting everybody in in you know great shape and really growing the organization. So I think um I think we've got a lot of great things coming down the road that I think uh will really help, you know, hockey in the panhandle. We're trying trying to get a league down here, trying to get consistent travel games. You know, it's like I said, ice is tough to come by, but I think the more ice sheets we get down here, the bigger the league will grow because hockey is here to stay. So and I'm excited about it.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:47

Well, great conversation with Carlos about the Pensacola Junior Ice Flyers. I think it just goes to show that hockey's a sport that travels. And not only have we seen it travel on the youth hockey level with people coming from places like New Jersey down to Pensacola or Boston over to eastern Idaho, um, which was another organization we talked with, but look at the NHL and you know, the teams right now that are thriving and winning Stanley Cups, you know, you've got Carolina this year, uh, Tampa, Florida, Las Vegas, you know, these non-traditional hockey markets. But as the passion for this game has continued to grow, and as people have migrated across this country to different uh different time zones, different area codes, different zip codes, the game travels with them. And that's what's so awesome about our sport here in the United States and what's growing at the game. I mean, the Red Wings, for instance, couldn't go a show without mentioning the Red Wings, went out and got themselves a first-round draft choice and drafted a Texas-born player uh in the first round. So just awesome to see um the story of Pensacola and actually Carlos' personal story about uh there's a northeastern guy heading down south and uh taking his love of hockey to help that organization thrive and continue to grow. This last clip that we're bringing from the first half of our uh season is uh is one that I think is really, really important. Um Drew and I had the chance to interview Jeff Brown. Uh Jeff is a former professional college junior hockey player out of the Toronto area. In fact, his brother, Connor Brown, uh is currently an NHL player. Um Jeff went a different route when it was time to move on from the game from an on-ice standpoint. Uh he used his education and he created a uh an initiative and a company um called the Mindful Hockey Club. And a little bit of what Jeff's mission is, is he wanted to pursue a passion of teaching hockey holistically. Um his goal was really to get with young athletes and recognize and control the negative self-talk and the and the fear that, you know, and anxiety that players and and whether you're a hockey player, a soccer player, uh on the debate team, you know, the the anxieties and fears that young people have today. Um, you know, some of the challenges that young people face, you know, I can't even comprehend uh as a 50-year-old hockey coach, you know, especially with social media and just the constant barrage of of comparison, uh, both on the ice, off the ice, in the classroom, off the classroom. And Jeff took a look at this and he said, Hey, I I want to take my experience, I I want to educate myself on how to communicate and help our players not just succeed physically and athletically, but train them from a mental and from uh a holistic standpoint to not just be the best hockey players they can be, but to be the best people they can be. And I can't think of a better uh clip to finish off the first half of our best of uh episode than to uh listen to Jeff Brown from the Mindful Hockey Club. Have a listen.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:06

Yeah, uh well, yeah, thank you very much. Uh you know, I uh this started for me as a passion project. Uh after I finished playing pro hockey over in Europe, I um, you know, I got into kind of healthcare, I got into sales and and was working, and and that's what I do now. I work in uh mergers and acquisitions for for a healthcare company. But uh my part-time gig and my passion project is is the mindful hockey club. And um, you know, it it's really kind of um you know snowballed uh for me. It's been really great. You know, it started out as, you know, for me, I I wanted to get into coaching, um, but with my my work schedule, it just wasn't in the cards for me to be a head coach or assistant coach uh, you know, in in uh GTHL uh here in Toronto. So um what I decided to do is is to coach privately, but I wanted to do it from a more holistic perspective. So, you know, um for me throughout my career, um, you know, mindfulness and and and focusing on my mindset was something that I didn't discover until I was late in my 20s over in Europe and and started to you know work on things like breathing technique and having a mental strategy and and you know coping with my own challenges. So um, you know, now that I'm able to kind of help out uh the next generation of hockey player and and uh you know start to the same way that we work on our slop shot and and and work on passing, you know, we got to start working on our mental game and uh um just happy to be a part of it. And it's it's been great so far.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:38

I'm taking a look at your your hockey DB, your lead prospects here. It looks like you started you did you did university in uh in Canada. They call it university in Canada, Drew, by the way. Um and you started off, it looks like you were in London at uh uh Western Ontario, um, and then finished up in Toronto. And I'm assuming um was this part of your academic journey, aside from playing hockey? I mean, you know, I it feels like a big part of this catalyst is doing a lot of self-reflection and seeing how you were able to propel your success, but were there external factors? Did you have a person who helped you along this journey that you were like, hey, this is another way I can give back?

SPEAKER_04 1:58:22

Yeah, well, uh, you know, to be completely candid, uh, you know, throughout my throughout my junior hockey and OHL career, I I you know I dealt with uh some pretty severe anxiety. And um, you know, it was something that was undiagnosed and something that I just learned to live with. And uh, you know, a lot of it had to had to do with uh you know just basically getting too focused on the results and and where I wanted to go uh in hockey and start playing pro. And you know, I started having like these kind of um panic attacks that were that came on uh in my last year of hockey in the OHL. And uh, you know, looking looking back, it was a pretty scary part part of my life because I I didn't know how to handle like you know what was happening and was getting short short of breath before games. You know, I was getting scared to even go to the rink. And this is the game that I've played since I was four years old. If there's anything I'm good at in this and it's hockey at this point in my life, right? And and so, you know, that being a very tough challenge for me, it actually led to you know me being able to understand um a lot about anxiety, a lot about uh you know, fear of failure, a lot about uh you know getting too focused on results and not focusing on you know staying in your process and and and you know playing free and trying to get yourself to a to a place when you're you know you're an 18-year-old, 19-year-old kid. You don't need to, you know, put the weight of the world on yourself, right? Every everyone else is doing that for you. But um, you know, my self-talk and everything else, it was all screwed up. So um, you know, those challenges and you know, working through those throughout my 20s led me to a place now where you know I learned so much about how you know using your breath to uh get back to the present moment, like how helpful that is. Um, you know, I had players that uh have reset routines that we build and uh they're using those in between shifts. So if they have a tough shift, get scored on instead of having negative self-talk, you know, we'll analyze that shift, we'll do some breathing, and then we have a trigger phrase, and you know, let's get back into the next shift. And and and you know, these are these are all things that I've built through throughout my 20s and and now into my 30s, and I'm just happy to be able to use some of the challenges in my life, um, you know, turn them around and and and give them back and and uh give give tools to uh to the younger generations.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:44

It it sounds almost meditative, you know. If you've and I'm not a I don't do meditation, I've got some friends that have tried it. Um, but transcendental meditation, they talk about your mantra and your and and being able to find that word to find focus. It sounds like you're using uh some very similar techniques and in uh taking some of the mental aspect and creating an actual physical um uh trigger or like are they saying the word, is it thinking the word? Just I mean, this type of stuff fascinates me, and and especially after some of the topics we've had here recently. Um, and as Drew and I are are coaching, you know, teenage boys and girls, and anxiety is front and center with everyone, you know, this type of stuff I think is where we've got to dive into. Hockey's the easy part, like you said.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:33

Yeah, no, absolutely. And these are skills that uh you know they it it's great to practice, and and that's why you know hockey is is so similar to the game of life, right? You know, uh learning to be a good teammate, learning how to you know deal with your nervous system when you get highs and lows, and and all the excitement of hockey and and and you know the the big lows when you when you lose a game or you turn over a puck. And and you know, that's the thing. We need to realize that you know it's it's hard because it's like especially I I live in Toronto, right? Youth hockey in Toronto is absolutely insane. So, you know, I have parents all the time coming to me with with all kinds of uh you know different scenarios, but I think like uh a great way for me to kind of phrase it for for you and for your listeners is kind of you know, um what I do is I work with two things. So one is a mindset and one is like mindfulness. So the difference is like a mindset would be your overall framework to how we approach challenges, setbacks, you know, uh the belief systems that we carry, right? Like a growth mindset versus like a fixed mindset. And mindfulness would be what I talked about about your breath, you know, using your breath, uh, you know, the practice of being present, uh being aware of of some of the things that you're that you're doing, you know, frustration when it comes up, you're noting it, you're not judging it, um, you know, trying to calm your nervous system. And you know, together, mindfulness, you know, it supports building a strong mindset. So that's why like, you know, those two things are kind of uh interchangeable. And uh, you know, it's something like you said before, like um when it comes to you know, boys versus girls hockey and and and the youth today, it's like, yeah, I do I definitely see that there's uh there's a little bit of an elevated kind of you know, anxiety is is a word that I think something that we understand more now, and then um, you know, something that you know, whether it's because of social media or a couple other things, it seems to be um, you know, at the forefront of of you know in a lot of families, right? So, you know, uh when it comes to girls, you know, I find that the the principles of mindfulness and mindfulness and mindset, they apply to obviously both guys and girls, but you know, how how they're communicated can differ, right? Boys can often respond uh well to kind of direct, challenge-driven language, right? Well, while girls kind of benefit more from relational coaching, you know, you're creating trust with them, emphasizing like a team connection, reinforcing confidence through through encouragement. Um, you know, yeah, you know, at a younger age as girls, I think they can sometimes internalize setbacks more deeply. So kind of creating that space uh through talking and and to allow them to process you know challenges that can be helpful. So yeah, there's so much, you know, so much juice in this type of type of coaching and and work. So, you know, I'm really hoping that uh, you know, in the next five to ten years that we start to integrate this type of coaching into kind of your everyday um, you know, coaches kind of you know tactics, right? The same way that they go through strategy about a game, you know, we need to be looking at how that we're you know building the next generation of of not only hockey players but but young individuals and young people.

SPEAKER_09 2:04:45

Well, if you're a parent or player, a coach of a player who feels that they could use Jeff Brown's services, reach out to Drew and I at Jared at Two Manymanonthe Mike.com or Drew at Two Manymanonthe Mike.com, and we'll get you in contact with Jeff. We actually had the ability to connect Jeff with a couple of players here locally in St. Louis, and the feedback that we've gotten from those players and their parents has just been phenomenal. And we really take our hat off to Jeff who's looking at things um from a personal standpoint, you know, beyond just you know scoring goals and the assistant winning hockey games. So well, Grant, um I can't believe we're we're at we're past a year with this with this silly little idea that that we had. And um I just I I I I think Drew's gonna be back next week and we'll be able to do the second part to this best of together. But I just want to say to you, uh, recorded for everyone to hear, because I know we give you such a hard time and a lot of grief. Um, thank you for the bottom of my heart. You've been uh a great person to get to know, a great person to work with, to learn from. Um, and I'm proud to say that, you know, I consider you a friend and uh you've been instrumental to the success of our show. Uh so thank you for that. Uh, you're not gonna get another one of those for another year, so make sure you you know put that on your playlist.

SPEAKER_08 2:06:04

Yeah, I'll put it in my yeah, same goes for you guys. And I've uh I'm proud and happy to have joined the hockey community a little bit and learn about this more about the sport. It's been well this year.

SPEAKER_09 2:06:16

You are getting on the ice this time. I am, yes, you're absolutely doing it, and you are gonna come to a gig. Yes, um, and we're gonna come back off and we will golf together. Um, but before we go here, uh I know I speak for Drew when I say um to everyone, uh all of our friends, family, uh, people that we've come in contact with at the rinks around the country, not just here in St. Louis, and everybody who said yes to coming on the show, we could not be more grateful for your support. We could be we we I don't think there's a way for us to express how excited we are. And we're really starting to find our groove, I think. And year one was a success for us. Um, and we think that we brought a lot of value to the community. We're gonna grow this community in year two. We're gonna have a lot of fun from youth hockey here in St. Louis and mid-states hockey here in St. Louis to all around this country and even the world. You know, we've been able to talk to people in Sweden and Finland and Canada. Um, I want to try and get somebody from Australia on. Uh, we've talked to somebody from England. So exciting times here. Thank you to everybody who's helped made this possible. Very, very special thank you again to you, Grant. And even though he's not here with me, I've told him this before, but I can't thank my partner, Coach Drew, enough for uh for coming up with this crazy idea, asking me to go along with him on this journey. Here's to another 55 uh more episodes. Thanks everybody. I think that's a wrap on this show. We'll see you next week when this plays. I hope everybody had a great Canada Day in Canada and everybody enjoy the 4th of July Independence Day. Be safe out there. He shoots, he scores, grant, plays.