Signal Flow
Luke Palmer and Tom Churchill talk synths, modular, studio gear, patching techniques... anything and everything to do with recording and performing electronic music.
Signal Flow
Our favourite sequencers, under-the-radar modules & Eurorack trends
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In this episode, Tom and Luke discuss their favourite sequencers, share some favourite under-the-radar brands and modules, and chat about some of the current trends in Eurorack, from multi-algorithmic digital powerhouses to manufacturer-specific ecosystems.
Thanks to everyone who commented on episode one!
Some of the gear discussed:
https://signalsounds.com/xaoc-devices-moskwa-ii-eurorack-sequencer-module
https://www.signalsounds.com/dannysound-tobinski-sequencer-eurorack-module/
https://www.signalsounds.com/new-systems-instruments-discrete-map-eurorack-sequencer-module/
https://www.signalsounds.com/make-noise-rene-mk2-cartesian-eurorack-sequencer-module
https://www.signalsounds.com/noise-engineering-multi-repetitor-eurorack-trigger-sequencer-module-black/
https://www.signalsounds.com/making-sound-machines-stolperbeats-eurorack-drum-sequencer-module
https://signalsounds.com/fancyyyyy-synthesis-rung-divisions-eurorack-polyrhythmic-divider-sequencer-generator-module/
https://alteredstatemachines.net/aristotle
Enrica's Stolperbeats demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xH4SieGL40
The Unperson’s Rings video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo6UvBhzNP4
Get in touch with questions, feedback and suggestions via signalflow@signalsounds.com
Find out more about the gear discussed: https://www.signalsounds.com
Hello and welcome to episode two of Signalflow, the Signal Sounds podcast, featuring me, Tom Churchill, and Me, Luke Palmer. And yeah, we're back. We didn't cancel it after episode one because you all gave us lots of lovely feedback, which we're really delighted about. Thanks very much for all your kind messages and words.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was mu very surprised to find out that people enjoyed hearing us talk in any capacity, really.
SPEAKER_03So um yeah, it means we're gonna do more of these and we're gonna crack on. Um this time we got some really interesting questions in via email, the email address being signalflow at signalsounds.com. Um so for this episode, we're gonna tackle a few of the questions that you've asked us after we do a little bit of a news roundup. Um this point just also flag that if you're watching it on YouTube, we also have an audio version available um on all major podcast platforms. Or have a good podcast ahead. And if you're listening to this on the audio podcast, you can also, if you so desire, watch us. And also please do subscribe, review, like, share, all that good stuff. It all helps to spread the word. Um let's kick off with a little bit of a kind of personal roundup. Luke, what have you been up to lately?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um mainly still finalizing and working on a live set which is in Quadraphonic, um, and that's primarily built inside a custom max patch using GRM tools Atelia, and it will also be live processed surge and live surge involved. So it's a mix of software and and for you modular hardware. Um we are gonna do a bit more of a deep dive into that setup as well as just performing live and live performance ethos within electronic music in the next episode. So we won't talk too much about that just now. Um but yeah, that's kind of the main thing I've been working on. What about you?
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, I am working on um, as usual, multiple videos. Um, my Venina Orbit video came out uh already, and I'm now working on uh Nekia Circuits, one that I mentioned last time round, and I'm also working on one for Chaos Devices for their new Kaminich Phaser. At this point, I might even let you hear a little bit of work in progress from that one. This is a Mark II of um Chaos Devices Phaser module that came out um quite a few years ago now. It was always quite popular, it's been out of production for a little bit, and they are back with a new version of it that's 10 HP wide rather than 9. It has a really cool um PCB expander which uh lets you go up to 22 stages on the phaser, and it's really good for um pinged percussion kind of sounds, which is what you'll hear in this little clip. This is completely dry, no external effect. So let's add a bit of reverb. And you might have noticed I've also got a patch through Samakanda with the first two channels linked. So let's add a bit of delay as well. So these terms are all just coming from this envelope shape going straight into the input. It's not really processing any audio, it's just generating these really complex stereo pings. Any other news to round up or other gear that you've spotted before we um get into the listener questions?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, news-wise, um we were a little bit sad to find out that Machina Bristronica this year is is not taking place. They have a new shop that they are moving to, and they're a relatively small team, a bit like us in that in that regards. They're they're not a big team and they're very nice folks down there. Um, and it's just a bit all too much to try and organise a really large-scale music and uh tech festival as well as Move Store with all of the inventory and all of the fun that comes with moving shop.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so they're doing a Glastonbury style fallow year and then coming back bigger and better in 27, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we're we're we're sad to see it uh because it's a it's always a really good event and it's a a good time, but um probably makes sense in the context to to give it a year out if they've got so much else on to organise.
SPEAKER_03It's yeah, well, good best of luck to them with the new shop and everything as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, what other stuff is caught well, another bit of news, I guess, to mention is that um we have uh by the time this episode comes out, we probably will have had our in-store events with Shack Matt, um, an in-store presentation from Francois, and then a DIY workshop. I think this episode will be out around that time. Uh, and then in April, we've got coming up an event with Tom Whitwell of Music Thing Modular, which I'm really looking forward to because he's a bit of a hero of mine. Um, he's going to be presenting his workshop system, which is a really cool self-contained DIY or pre-assembled modular in a little suitcase thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that thing. I I I'm a sucker for anything in a Pelly case, just in general. Um, it's just uh and it just think it looks great and the functionality is really good. So I'm super excited to hear him talk about a bit about the background and ethos on that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's a really interesting guy, Tom, because he a bit like me, he's got a bit of journalism background, although he was far more senior and successful than me. Um and uh he also um obviously made the uh Tura machine, which is one of the sort of era defining Euroract modules, I'd say, of that kind of early phase of Euroract, um, DIY friendly, uh beginner-friendly DIY kit. Um really interesting little sort of generative sequencer thing, which most people that use modulum may be at least aware of, even if they haven't got one. Yeah. Um so yeah, really looking forward to that. That'll be the end of April when all the details will be released in due course. Free in store, free beer, free pizza. Come on down, meet Tom, meet me, meet Luke.
SPEAKER_00Um, I'll be there for that one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I suppose one of the bit of new arrival stuff to mention as well is Omri Cohen has a new book out, which we've now got in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we we love the uh first book, which if you're not familiar, this is the the modular handbook. The first one was the modular cookbook, which was essentially ostensibly recipes for patches. So it would give you all of the tools, um, give you a patch description on how to connect them and just give you fun ideas um on how to make them. This one is a little bit more focused towards beginners. Um so it's a little bit more basic, but as a starting point, if you've never used any modular or anything like that before, um the modular handbook will give you a really good introduction to all of that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's really good, I think, for sort of taking things right back to first principle. So it's not really about specific patches or particular bits of gear, it's more about like how does sound work and how does voltage work and how to how what is C V and all that stuff. So if you're new to modular or if you're you know been using it for a while but want to brush up on some of the fundamentals, it's a good a good uh choice, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Cool. So that's a kind of roundup of what's been going on here since we last uh spoke. Shall we go to the questions we've had in from listeners after the first one?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's do it.
SPEAKER_03So first up, Howard emailed to ask, I would be curious what each of you looks for in a Eurorack sequencer. Which ones are your favourites and why? And do you have several for different purposes?
SPEAKER_00The answer is always more. Always, always buy more. You need five, six, seven sequences.
SPEAKER_03You can't really do any kind of serious music without at least seven sequences, I've always said.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, very much so. But what what uh you're probably you given your uh backgrounds in doing all sorts of Eurorack videos, I'm gonna pass this one over to you first because I think you'll have no no shortage of sequences. I know you're a man who likes a sequencer. What ones are tickling your fancy at that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, before I sort of get into specific modules, I would say that my like approach to sequencing in Eurorack is I look for stuff fundamentally that I can't do easily in a door. That's kind of what I look for in a Eurorack sequencer. So it's it's something that offers either you know interesting rhythmic possibilities or some kind of hands-on interface, which is completely different from anything you can really do easily in Ableton or whatever, or even a conventional hardware sequencer. Um, and Eurack, luckily, is full of interesting stuff like that. So I tend to use kind of multiple simple sequences or or you know fairly straightforward sequences rather than like a big battleship sequencer. I'm not really one to use a big, you know, I I've used a couple of those things, and I sometimes use external sequencing of some kind, whether it's a beat step pro or a key step, that kind of thing. But um I tend to kind of use my sequenced elements as kind of when I'm making a sort of full track, those are sort of elements within the full track rather than the entire thing being sequenced and composed from start to finish all in the one ecosystem, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00So when we're talking about like battleship sequences, you're sort of referring to the likes of the Hermod Plus, um, the Oxy1, um, those sorts of sequences where you've got quite a large track count. The idea would be you're sort of like the whole track could be borne off this one sequence.
SPEAKER_03It's like the brain for the entire song, not just you know, the modular aspect of it, but you're maybe doing your drums in there as well, and you're sort of sequencing multiple melodic parts, maybe some MIDI instruments too. So things like the HapAx and the Oxy one, which I'm always really intrigued by, but just haven't really ever used yet just because of the way I work. Um, so yeah, the kind of stuff. I mean, the first modular sequencer that really kind of caught my eye when I was getting into it, and one of the first ones I got was the Chaos Devices Mosquare, which is an eight-step roto sequencer. Um, it's been around for quite a while. Um, it's got it's on its kind of Mark II incarnation now. There's a nice expander for it as well. Um, what that does is it has a really you know, really intuitive kind of rotary interface where the eight steps are arranged in a circle, and you can on each step program gate patterns of you know, sort of ratchets, or uh um, or you can elongate those steps and do rhythmic kind of triggers on them. So, although it's only eight steps, um with modulation and with some of that kind of advanced, you know, per step programming, you can get some really, really complicated stuff out of it. And I like um the expander offers CV inputs for transposing and changing the range and jumping to the first step and repeating steps, and you get individual step gate outputs, and it's compatible with a live net's binary subsystem as well, so you can get like a binary value for each step to send on to other modules, which really opens it up as well. So that's one that I really like, and then I guess more recently, the two that I've really enjoyed using have been the Danny Sound or Tobinski as they're now called. They're just that module's just called the Tobinsky sequencer, uh, and that is a kind of four-track but based around two banks of eight voltages. Um really interesting, fully analogue. Um I guess that's like a battleship analog sequencer given the size of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is chunky, especially if you go with the expander as well.
SPEAKER_03With the expander, it's like you could there are URAC systems smaller than that. Yeah, it's a big, it's a big boy, but it's um I've really you know that's that's for that kind of um it really takes on or advances that kind of surge and bookler style analog sequencer paradigm, and you can do you know multiple lanes with different step lengths, so it's very, very easy to get into kind of phasing and polymetric sort of programming with it. You can use one sequencer to sequence a parameter on the other one, and you know, the self-patching possibilities are pretty epic.
SPEAKER_00So that's well one one thing that uh has come up for you that you mentioned uh and is true for me as well, is in terms of sequences that uh the types of sequences that I like and the kinds of sequencing that I like to do with uh Eurorac or hardware, um, the polymetric aspect that you just touched on is a big one for me because I I don't think doors do polymetric stuff tremendously well. Um you sort of have a tendency to be locked into whatever sort of for based grid um you want to do, and I find sequencing outside of that, unless you're using like dedicated maybe Macs for live sequences or stuff like that, it's it's just never really been something I found tremendously fun. Um and the Tabinsky sequencer, I remember when you showed me some clips from the videos that you'd been doing, or just clips that you'd been making with that, I was like, that's really good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I might actually drop in a clip here of one of the patches from the video I made on that sequencer, which which kind of shows the kind of classic phasing effect where you've got two copies of the same loop, but one is one step shorter than the other, and they kind of gradually drift apart and then lock back in again. So I'll just drop that in here so people can hear what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, this is a kind of almost like a comparator-based sequencer where you've got eight stages and you kind of advance through them by setting a threshold at which they become active when you feed in a uh changing voltage. So, in the simplest way, you can send in a kind of rising ramp and you can set the comparator thresholds to kind of equal spaces along that ramp, and then as that ramp advances, the steps will trigger one at a time. But of course, it gets really interesting then when you set those thresholds to different places, um, so that as that ramp advances, it maybe takes longer before the next step is triggered, and so on. So you can kind of do stuff, and then if you start feeding in voltages that are not a pure rising ramp, you get really interesting stuff as well, and it runs at audio rate, and you can turn it into a really cool oscillator that way too. That's quite a hard one to kind of get your wrap your head around straight away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I again I sort of remember you showing me like some clips, and I was like, oh, this sounds great, this sounds like a really cool sequence, and then you sort of explained it to me in roughly the same terminology you just did, and I sort of glazed over and started.
SPEAKER_03Apologies to anybody who glazed over while I was describing that as well. It's about as succinct a way as I can think of to describe it, to be honest. I mean, there's there are some long videos out there about it from our friend Ben Div Divkid as well. Um, it's just yeah, again, it's something that's kind of changed the paradigm a little bit about how analog sequences work, and it opens up a few interesting ways. And rhythmically, I've been I've been using it for kind of techno loops, and it's great to get kind of like wonky off-grid things, which you can then by subtly modulating, you can just get these rhythms that evolve. Um, and again, it's got an expander with you can kind of group steps to different um buses, which then trigger when they are triggered, so you can get kind of like related rhythmic events out of that. Um, yeah, really interesting, as always with new systems instruments. I think they've really kind of taken things you know a bit further along the path of what's possible with analog electronics. Cool. So, what about um sp any specific sequences? I mean, what what do you look for in Euroract sequences specifically and what what kind of gear has caught your eye or do you use?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm I'm quite similar to yourself in as much as I also am generally looking for something that is gonna give me a different way of sequencing from a sort of basic DAW sequencing. Um on top of that, I also really like uh similar to yourself the polymetric stuff, and I think where I can start to get um overlapping sequences that just kind of generate like really interesting patterns. One thing that I really like in sequences is if there is an interface that allows for minimal interaction with quite dramatic changes to that sequencing. Um so I I have always really liked and had a big soft spot for the make noise Renee. Um I like the fact that just with the same 16-based grid, so uh just to uh describe how that works, you basically have almost like something like a battleship style sequencer with 16 spots. Each of those spots is essentially a note value. Um, and you have an X and a Y input, and so you can sort of play snake by sending two different.
SPEAKER_03It's a four by four grid.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a four by four grid. We'll pop a little photo for uh the YouTube videos just here, but it's a four by four grid in which you have X and Y inputs for clock or gates, um, and so you can basically get different uh rhythms and different uh sequences from the same set of four by four patterns. Um there's different modes where you can run it in a sort of snake mode, and there's different uh ways that it can sort of travel through that grid. You can very easily quickly turn um steps off and on, whether or not you want them to be ignored or just uh sort of like missed or stepped over. Um I quite like that in a sequencer. If there's a way that I can sort of have something that is going that is already interesting and just ever so slightly come in and tweak something ever so slightly here and there, um, I really enjoy that just because it sort of gives me the way that I tend to work um with sequencing and hardware is um I'm tending to just do a really long recording and I'm almost just like I'm leaving a sequence running and I'm just interacting with it. And I'll then go through after, you know, not often not even on the same day, and then chop up little samples of my favorite sections of those things. So for me, it's quite important to be able to interact with the sequence in a way that is potentially not tremendously destructive. Some sequences maybe feel just a bit more like either it's once it's put into the sequencer, it's I dare touch it. I just I'm just gonna leave it to do its thing. Uh and then other ones, uh minimal interaction can sometimes just then derail something quite significantly. So my ideal scenario is something that I can interact with that that doesn't just immediately screw everything up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a bit like when you have a you you you come across a really nice pattern in a Turing machine and you've locked it. And then and then you don't want to you like you're you can maybe like unlock it a little bit to evolve it, but then it's just all bets are off at that point, whether it's gonna stay interesting. And sometimes you get like a happy accident with that where you nudge it back a fraction and then it just evolves in a cool way when you lock it again, and you can sort of like ride, you can kind of ride that unlocking and and relocking wave, but then occasionally then it'll just do something that's like, oh no, you've ruined it now. Thanks, Jura Machine.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Alan. So so one other aspect as well, I guess that um, you know, in the discussion of uh how many sequences do you have, do you have sequences for different purposes? Um, in the battleship style sequences that exist, like the Hermod, that are they're really fantastic. I've used one in the past, um, you're kind of looking to sequence everything from that one unit usually. Um, all of the sequences we have mentioned thus far have all been melodic sequences, but there's a very different sort of subcategory for generating interesting rhythms for drum purposes. Um, do you have any favourites in the sort of drum sequencer category?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've got a few things. I mean, one of the earliest modules that I bought was the Xolaric Repetitor from Noise Engineering, and I think you've got the numeric repetitor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which is two flavours of the same idea, but I'll let you describe how you're using the Zolaric.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so they're kind of four-channel trigger or gate sequences where you feed in a clock and then you've got banks of rhythms. And I think the numeric ones are kind of based on kind of Western music theory or maths kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00Are they kind of like I think it's maybe slightly Euclidean, that sort of it's definitely like you can get some quite interesting um yeah, you turn a knob and it changes the rhythm for that particular channel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um the Zolaric one is slightly more It's more based on African music theory. Yeah. Um so that there are rhythms in there which are well, there's there's an old world and a new world bank, and I think the old world ones are kind of the African ones, and the new world ones are slightly more um you know Western music based. And again, you know, I think with both you've got knobs on each channel where you can offset the the each part you know within the grid and stuff. So um there's kind of a very wide range of stuff if you start modulating those that you can get out of it. But I find them really handy just for having something that can generate patterns, you know, for triggering envelopes to do other stuff in the patch, just as a quick source of interesting rhythmic stuff. Um, I think I think that those things are good. And there's a new noise engineering um repetitor module, um, which now which kind of incorporates bits of both, um, which sort of supersedes them. It's the kind of the ultimate repetitor, uh, which is which I'm kind of interested in as well. And there's a couple of other things I use to do similar stuff. I use the um Earth and Lipsk modules from Chaos devices uh as part of the LibNet's binary subsystem. If you kind of feed a clock in to that, and you can use Earth to set the increment by which Earth will count up, and then it outputs gates which represent the bits of the binary number that it's counting to, which again, you'll play over again over either. That's fine. Um I've done a whole video on this before, but uh the in the short answer for that is that is a great way of making uh quite interesting rhythm patterns uh from just feeding on a clock and doing a bit of uh you know interesting modulation there. Um I also like the expanders on the talking about the Turing machine again. We mentioned briefly earlier. I like the the the um the pulsers expander for that, which gives you gates which are active on when the different bits in the Turing machine ship register are active and when different combinations of those via logic are active as well. So you can kind of get related rhythms for your melody um out of the Turing machine that way too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the only other one that uh comes to mind that I've always had a uh a soft spot for is the making sound machine stolper beats, um which is again it it's sort of uh I guess akin to, in some ways, the the numeric repetitor, in as much as you've got different channels that are designed for kick drum, snare drum, hi hats, and you turn a dial and you're essentially populating the Steps onto a step sequencer, and it will do that in sort of generally musical ways. And then if you press the button, you can go in and purposely design decide I want steps on these steps, or you can just turn it and it will give you something, some flavor of rhythm. That has some really nice swing involved as well. I know that there's not that I see many people doing boombap in Eurorack, but there was definitely some J Diller influences in that. And the swing on that is really, really fun. And particularly if you're kind of using it at you know, like at you know, house or down tempo sort of tech uh tempos, you can get some really fun uh swung rhythms from that. It's a it's a great module for doing it.
SPEAKER_03It's like instant Diller kind of flavor in your in your rack.
SPEAKER_00It gets really drunk at points, like you can really swing it.
SPEAKER_03I remember there's a great demo from um Enrica from Making Sound Machines. I th I I really enjoyed the little short demos um that they do of their stuff. Enrica's the kind of musician that does all that stuff with um in their videos, and she did a great one with stolper beats with um yeah, those kind of really wonky rhythms that sounded like a lost Dabry or Dilla instrumental from years gone by. It's great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll pop a link in all the descriptions for that so you can watch the full video.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, definitely recommended. Cool. Is that enough on sequences? I think so, yeah. Yeah, let's move on to the second audience question. This one comes from Mark T, who asks, um, how about your favourite hidden gems or modules that fly under the radar, old or new?
SPEAKER_00Um, maths. No one has ever like No one ever talks about maths. No one ever talks about the maths. Uh or Pam Pamela's Pro Is that what it's called? Pamela's Pro worker?
SPEAKER_03Plats, I think, from that one. And uh what about the VicX? Oh, let's not go there again. We covered that well enough last time. Yes.
SPEAKER_00We jest. Uh I'll let you go first because you I feel like you've always got uh a mountain of underrated gems.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean I've got a few brands that I think are generally a bit under the radar, which don't really get as much hype, well not hype, but even just you know recognition as they maybe should. Um and a few that sort of sprung to mind were uh patching panda.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I think um Lewis from Patching Panda makes a couple of superb drum modules, the blast and hats, um, really good trigger sequencer, um, cool patterns, and the um rewire, which is a really interesting kind of sequential switch.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I also really like the Aetna as well, which is like a sort of almost like step sequenceable filter. Um, you can get some really, really cool uh rhythmic stuff out of that. I I'm a big fan of his stuff in general. He's he makes it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and there's that moon phase filter as well, which is kind of a yeah, lots of patching panda in general, I think, is a good shout. Uh good, good, good brand that people don't really pay enough attention to. Um Nekia Circuits, I think, probably don't get quite as much um recognition as they should. I think they're doing some really interesting stuff. Uh in A TV projects, similarly as well. That's another brand that we kind of work with quite a lot here at Signal Sounds. And I think they're um from the dual harmonic oscillator to the uh Fader Punk, they're doing some really, really cool stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um Olivella modular as well, from probably Argentina's premier Eurorack brand. Uh and they are, yeah, really, really good stuff. I really enjoyed the Furia um sort of discrete filter and VCA recently, and the Gravidad oscillators, excellent.
SPEAKER_00His stuff's got kind of like a slight bookler look about it as well, if you're so inclined.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the kind of blue Rogan knobs and the silver panels. It looks really nice, looks very classic. Yeah. Um, but his stuff is very, very underrated. Tenderfoot electronics as well. Yeah. Um, I think their quad quantizer is probably my favourite quantizer. Um, certainly the one that I use the most. And they've got lots of other really cool, um, just really well thought out, really nicely designed kind of analog modules which go under the radar quite a bit. Um there's also I've got I've got loads of these. I could go on for quite a while.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's fine. Throw a few.
SPEAKER_03There's a guy called Isaac Beers in Australia that does a brand called Beers, um, and he makes a lot of DIY and pre-assembled options um kind of lots of logic modules and kind of interesting switches, and uh, he's got a new kind of multi-phase oscillator LFO that's just come out, and he makes a module that I use all the time called the DAC, which is kind of a bank of switches. It's like a precision adder with a set of preset voltages that you can add to your input voltage, and you can either activate them via the switch or you can activate them via a gate. Um, so it's good for transposing sequences, but you can also use it to kind of you can use a gate sequencer into those inputs, and then you can use it as a melodic sequencer by you know adding in turn different combinations of those. Yeah, so they're basically pre-configured to be like one semitone, two semitone, three semitones, a fourth, a fifth, and an octave. Yeah, okay, with different combinations of them. So that's just a really cool little six HP thing that I like. Um and expert sleepers analog modules, I think, go under the radar.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because everyone everyone knows uh disting and everyone knows the ES9 and the NT and all of his big ones. But like the analog ones, I they're just really they sound great. They're they're like really well thought out. Um, but yeah, I I'd agree, they're definitely under the radar, especially in the price point as well. Um they're the very good value for money.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're really affordable, they're really well engineered, really well designed. Um, I really like the I mean the two that I've got on my main rack at the moment I use a lot are the Persephone VCA, which has a zero crossing detector, which is really, you know, it helps eliminate clicks when you're doing kind of percussive sounds or bass lines when you've got um, yeah, it'll only it'll only open the VCA at a zero crossing point, which is um really, really good feature you don't really know you need until you use it, and then once you use that, it's like, why have I lived my life without a zero cross point? What an empty life I had uh before. Um so that's good, and it's got a really nice kind of um uh over you know distortion pro uh sort of segment in it as well. Yeah, and the other one that use quite a lot is the Beatrix phaser, which is a really nice sounding phaser.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh the Lorelei as an oscillator as well sounds really nice. I'm I'm always a big fan of um just having a basic sine wave, and it seems really pointless, but like I really like sine waves, just that I find them a really fun starting point to then do with FM and all of that sort of stuff. So um it just sounds great in general, but it also has a nice octave knob as well, which I really like. Yeah, yeah. More oscillators should have an octave dial.
SPEAKER_03Yes, agree. And yeah, you're right, it's it's actually quite rare to find a very good analog sine wave oscillator. There aren't, you know, some do have a sine wave output, but that it's not universal. Um, and that is a really it's a sign core in that design as well, which is quite unusual. So it's uh yeah, it's a cool design. Um what else is under the radar? I was gonna mention one other thing. This could have come up in the sequences discussion as well, actually. Yeah, this is very under the radar. Um, it's called Aristotle from Altered State Machines. I think you can only buy an Etsy.
SPEAKER_00Um so this is Oh, we've got we've got that level of under the radar.
SPEAKER_03Proper underground stuff. This this is like not, yeah, you won't find this in signal sounds, for example. Um but again, you're gonna glaze over when I describe this. This is like a two-channel. I'm with you so far. Two-channel C V sequencer. You have two banks of four sliders, which each define a voltage. Only one can be active at uh only one bank can have its respective stage slider active at any one time. Uh-huh. And a trigger input will switch which one is um is active, whether it's um bank A or bank B. Yep. And uh each stage has its own trigger input and they cascade down via a clock divider. So if you feed a steady clock into the first one, it divides by two, then four, then eight, and then it kind of activates them all in turn. So you basically get a six with a with a steady clock in, you get a kind of 16-step sequence around because it's counting in binary effectively. Okay. So it kind of it combines a lot of my interests.
SPEAKER_00You're such a binary border.
SPEAKER_03Such a binary lover. Um yeah, I'm what's the opposite of non-binary? Binary. I'm completely binary. Um and yeah, it's just it's just another really interesting kind of thing to have in your toolkit. Um, and yeah, I don't see you don't see it very often. So that's uh that's a cool little thing.
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_03Any other under-the-radar modules for you?
SPEAKER_00Um the the first one that usually comes to mind that I know you're a big fan of is the rung divisions.
SPEAKER_03From fancy synthesis. Uh we mentioned it very briefly last time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this every time I play with that, it's it's just really fun. It's sort of got Turing machine flavours, clock divider flavors. It's it's just a a real Swiss army knife of just fun. Yeah, random.
SPEAKER_03So if to sort of describe it briefly, it's got a it's kind of in two halves. One one half is uh as a clock divider which has individual outputs for divisions from two to eight, but you can assign any of them to one of two buses as well, where it kind of combines them using all logic. So you could say have two, three, and five all assigned to one bus, and then you'll get a pattern which is every two, three, and five all combined. Um so you can very quickly by toggling those little switches get um really interesting rhythms that are all just based around divisions of a clock. And of course, if you feed in a clock that's not completely steady to the input two, then things get even more interesting. And then the second half of it is a shift register, uh Turing machine style, like a kind of binary shift, a digital shift register where it's driven by one of those clock divider buses, and then you can again like a Turing machine, you can decide whether you uh randomly change the status of any of those bits as it rotates through, or you can lock it um so you can generate patterns. And you can also do kind of chaotic wrongula patching by feeding oscillator inputs into the clock and chance inputs and stuff.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and there's more than one of the on the Turing uh Turing machine side of things, there's like more than one output.
SPEAKER_03There's an eight-bit output and a and a three-bit, yeah, and uh a single bit, which is the kind of rhythm of that that's just the status of the first bit in the register too, so you can kind of get a rhythmic rhythmic kind of pattern out of it too. Yeah, the three-bit just takes three of the eight bits and converts them to um analog using a slightly different weighting to the eight-bit one.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, you get two related C V patterns out of it as well as uh so glad you were here to describe this in so much more detail than I would have been able to.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, it's a great module. And you know, as we mentioned last time, they've got the K accumulator coming up, which is their complex oscillator, which I think will be that's definitely not under the radar. People are quite excited about that one.
SPEAKER_00Very much on the radar, that one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, cool. Shall we move on to question three?
SPEAKER_00Let's move on to question three.
SPEAKER_03So, question three comes from Russ, who asks, uh, would love to hear your thoughts on current trends in Modular. Uh, he loved the era of mutable instruments and always engineering. Um, where are we now and where are we going? Just a nice, light, simple question there to just a nice, easy, breezy one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it seems to me that we are with a with the with some exceptions, uh, certain brands still flying the flag of slightly more old-style patch programmability. Um, we are moving towards something that is usually a little bit more one big juicy module that does uh a particular job and it does it very well. Um or like the digital module powerhouses, you know, your your multigrains, your VICXs, that kind of thing. Um it's sort of a bit of a weird one because if you think like if you almost if you were to describe you know as he does, or potentially views it as the mutable instruments and noise engineering as the heyday, in some ways uh the VicX and and those sorts of modules are sort of essentially just a slightly more modern-day version of the mutable instrument stuff. The mutable instrument stuff in f depending on which module you're looking at, generally shares the same sort of thing of it it's doing one job. Certainly the most popular ones would do one specific job and it does it very well. Um obviously they do have a bunch of other ones that are a little bit more flexible, but if you were to take, you know, uh clouds, for example, um as a module or plates, you know, it's it's a single sound source or in clouds of uh it's a single effect that can do multiple different things.
SPEAKER_03But I think the thing that made mutable instruments so popular, um, especially as a lot of you know, I think a lot of people got into modular, you know, through mutable instruments stuff, is that they just sound great out of the box, you know, like that they are it's quite hard to make plats or rings into clouds sound awful. You know, you can yeah, there's instant gratification there. Um and you know, for the down the flip side of that is or the downside of that maybe is that some people don't always dig much deeper. And I've always thought with mutable that like if you actually start, you know, with rings, for example, you know, a lot of people don't really get much further than just hitting a strom input, yeah um, feeding it through a nice reverb or feeding it through clouds, and you know, it it sounds quite pleasant and it sounds very much like of itself, you know, you can you can sort of as a sound, but you know, rings has an audio input, you can use it to resonate, you can feed any stuff through it as a resonator, and it it becomes much more interesting to me when you start feeding things like drums through it or other impulses or you know, kind of tracking pitch with it with a pitch source going into it. Um, and you know, similarly, you know, I think beads and clouds and those things have a lot of hidden depths, which you maybe don't necessarily get to if you just kind of fire it up and get something nice sounding straight away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and is that is that also something that you think is true of the more recent modules that that have come out that kind of have operate in a similar sort of territory? Your multi-grains, you know, do you do you feel like there's there's a similar level of depth that maybe people haven't yet achieved or will achieve soon and we'll see that come through?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't know. I mean I've I've not had a great deal of experience with the multi-grain or the um or the VicAx, you know, as we talked about last time. And yeah, you know, I do my impression is that they these these are modules that sound great out of the box as well, and you know, um have lots of sweet spots. And um, yeah, I mean, and and I'm sure with all gear really, you know, if you kind of put the hours in and and actually try and do stuff a bit different. I mean, you can you can usually go way beyond the obvious with with most bits of gear if you try hard enough. So yeah, um, I'm sure we'll start seeing people pushing these things to you know more and more extremes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's funny that you mentioned the the sort of uh rings as an example of uh if you do audio into it, for example, it kind of has a different texture. Um I handle all the pre-owned testing of items here. Um and primarily so I don't get distracted, um, the testing setup is quite literally as minimal as you could possibly have it. It is a nano keysha case, which is a fantastic case with a fixed one U row with really basic utilities like an LFO, um, a noise source, little mixer, little mixer and a headphone output and stuff. So it's it's a 4U 104 case. I have an ALM MCO and I have a Mordaks data, and that is it. And I have never needed anything more than that to test any of the modules other than you know, your sort of like uh USB CV kind of stuff. Um we had a rings come in, and um the first thing I did was obviously ping a square output to the the strum input, and I was like, oh yeah, it's doing it. And I was like, oh well, what happened if I put the MCO in? And immediately I was like, oh, this sounds great. This sounds really cool and really interesting. Um and the amount of times I'm sat in that pre-owned thing where I'm testing items and I'm just making sure that they all work. And with such minimal input of essentially usually one LFO, maybe white noise, and an MCO, I've uh the amount of times I've had the sounds where I'm like, this is a really interesting, really, really cool sound uh is quite remarkable. And it's sort of a testament sometimes too to digging a bit deeper with stuff that you already have and maybe trying to just sit and be like, right, okay, what haven't I done with this one module that's already in my case? Like what potential options are exist that I haven't tried yet? Because when you really limit yourself to like starve yourself of options, uh, all of a sudden you can end up with something that sounds really different. And and you wouldn't have got there had you been like, I'm gonna use 10 modules to do the job.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, or I'm gonna sell this and buy a new thing because I'm bored of this thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, I mean, on rings specifically, I would highly recommend anyone that hasn't seen it watch um the unpersons. Um he did a classic video on rings a couple of years ago, which I think I watched that and that made me buy rings basically. It kind of sold it to me. Um he does some more advanced kind of patching where he feeds an uh a teenager engineering OP1 through it and stuff. And there's a there's a patch in it where he kind of starts singing, um, and it's it's absolutely goosebump inducing. It's it's phenomenal. Right. So I'll put a link in the description.
SPEAKER_00I might need to watch that when I get home.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a real it's a real, it's one of it's a he's a great, you know, obviously he's a friend of the shop and is a uh a fantastic YouTuber, but that video is like a real example of like and at that point, you know, the point you put, you know, rings have been around for a while, and I think it was a real a real kind of lesson in how to take a module that people maybe think they've heard it all from and show that there's a lot more to it. Yeah. Um, so so yeah, I I guess this is a very slightly off the original point about the musical instruments era, but I guess maybe although that era may have passed, I think there's still a lot of value in those modules.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, but in terms of like where we are, like what are the current trends and what's kind of going on now. I mean, you've touched on those kind of big, powerful digital modules that we've kind of talked about a bit as well. And I think um, you know, another trend is like modules of some kind that have many algorithms within them to choose from. So, I mean, that's been going for a while. There's things like the FXAid um from Happy Nerding, which is a brilliant, you know, effects module that has umpteen um, you know, literally countless um effects algorithms you can configure via the web app and load in. There's things like the ALM um MCO Mark II and the MFX, which have multiple algorithms that you can pick from. These all kind of lead on from Platz, I guess, and braids, which you know, with you know that that model of having lots of different types of digital thing in one thing. And then on a slightly bigger scale, you've got the 4MS meta module, which is like VCV rack in a in a module, ironically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Kind of a module section. Yeah. Um, and the disting NT, of course, which is a kind of multi-algorithm thing, and the the various distings that precede that, which were the kind of original multi-algorithm digital things. So I think that's definitely a trend that hasn't gone anywhere, and people are still, you know, you still see these kind of multi-algorithmic things coming out a lot. Um There's also a bit of a rise, I would say, in what I would describe as like semi-proprietary or proprietary subsystems or ecosystems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and this is sort of like an interesting area, I think.
SPEAKER_03I mean, just for example, I was gonna say there's the Chaos Devices Leibniz binary subsystem, um, which is you know a kind of system that connects via special connectors on the back to transmit binary data. There's TipTops Art, which is their kind of polyphonic Eurec um protocol that uses special um polytip cables and um you know USB-C connectors repurposed to kind of transmit multiple lanes of CV stuff, a polyphony in Eurorack. And then there is the Make Noise New Universal Synthesizer System or NUS, which is a suite of modules where to design to work together, which have a kind of new approach to multi-channel audio and multi-channel modulation stuff. So I don't know whether we'll see more of these, and I don't know how successful these will all be in the long term, but it's definitely something that you know manufacturers seem to be trying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I think I'm with you on sort of like uh the jury for me is out on how successful these will be in the long run. Um I think the difficulty with all of them is it's almost like adding another barrier of entry to a whole ecosystem that already has a barrier of entry.
SPEAKER_03Like it's a niche within a niche.
SPEAKER_00It's a niche within a niche. And um while I I kind of think in some ways these things do I think the binary subsystem one is probably for me the most interesting. Um, mainly because if I wanted polyphony, I'm not necessarily sure that Eurorack has ever really been the most convenient way to do that anyway. Um there's so many great fantastic polysynths that just sound amazing that if I want a polyphonic synth, I'll have a tendency to just grab a polysynth rather than be like, how could I make something um polyphonic in in a Eurorack space? Um that being said, um the NUSS Um that does appeal mainly just because I've always had a bit of a soft spot for make noise stuff. I just think that stuff's really good. Um, tons of their modules for me just sound amazing and just sound great. So if anyone was gonna tempt me in with something like that, it would be make noise.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm really interested in the NUS system as well. I've not it's I'm I'm a bit reluctant to I've got enough rabbit holes to go down, you know. I've got I've got enough to keep me busy. So I'm I know that if I start going down that path, I'll probably get really, really, really into it. Yeah. Um that's not to say I won't. I'm just like right now, I'm I've sort of hit pause. I did play with a multi-mod a bit when that came out. Um I took that home for a while, and that is that's great. Um that's a module that kind of takes one input and then produces time-shifted copies of that, um, or you know, slow down and sped up versions, can process CV or audio. That's become a bit, you know, that's a really big hit for them. I haven't played yet with the uh multi-wave oscillator or the polymaths um function generator, but um, we are going to be getting in the skiff system, um, which has all these NUS modules in one. And if we don't sell them immediately, I might be tempted to have a little play with one of them. Um if uh if Jason lets me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm sure it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_03Uh so I'm I'm yeah, I'm intrigued by it because I do think Mate Noise are they've got such a great track record of innovation in this stuff, and I think they know what they're doing here. Um, and I think they are doing something genuine and interesting. And although I you know I describe these as like semi proprietary subsystems, they are completely compatible with other. Stuff, you know, that they have some convenient rear panel connectors, but they're not compulsive, they you know, they're not necessary to use it. Um, and although they do play nicely together and they are designed to work as a cohesive system, I think there's no reason why you can't kind of do stuff with them as part of a bigger um setup. So, yeah, curious to know um to learn a bit more about that as as time goes on, and I'll maybe report back in a future episode if I go down that particular wormhole. Um, I guess another trend in Modular today, which I've noticed, is like an increasing ability, or you know, people producing tools that let you do almost every aspect of the studio now within a Eurorack specifically. So you know, from performance mixers to battleship sequences, to now we're seeing more and more things like compressors and EQs and you know dynamics and outboard kind of processes, which would normally be the preserve of you know 19-inch racks or 500 series stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So now you can very conceivably and recorders too, like the STEM ripper and the halftime modular um ATR recorder where you can record multiple channels of audio without leaving the rack as well. Um, you know, so there is now the ability to like do absolutely every aspect of the song production within the Eurorack format. Um and for me, the jury is out on whether it's the best medium to do some of that stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think for me, uh in terms of the the like you mentioned, the sort of EQs or compressors or those sorts of things, those those to me are probably at their most valuable or most interesting as a sort of like stereo master end-of-chain type thing.
SPEAKER_03Or at least like the mixing stage of a of a track where you where you've got maybe stuff on on per channel, but I tend to do that stuff separately from the creating creating side that I do at the modular.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. For for me, I've always been more like the the point of my hardware experience is let's let's just have fun and make sounds, and I'm not necessarily I'm just focusing on making the sound as as interesting as possible. I'm not really usually all that concerned with like making sure that it's the most polished thing as possible. Um, oftentimes because I'm not actually usually like I'm almost like working after the fact, like there's the the sound making stage, and then there's the additional composition on how what how do I turn that sound into something that's a bit more finished into a piece of music.
SPEAKER_03So your approach is very much like using the module to generate raw material that you then kind of do a lot more with afterwards and add extra stuff and yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's almost just like capturing the raw idea. So it's like whatever makes that whatever is uh feeding that idea the best, whether that's like, oh, all of a sudden, like if there's an effect or you know, if there's like compression that's needed to kind of achieve this the sound that I'm looking for, then great. Um that being said, I think like live set people who are kind of doing a lot of stuff like I can understand the end of chain effects there, where it's sort of like I kind of need to make this sound as good as possible and I don't want to have to bring a bunch of other stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I think that's that's really what a lot of these performance mixers and and things are kind of geared towards, aren't they? The clues in the name performance mixer, I guess. It's yeah, it's um yeah, designed for people that are playing live and and being able to kind of have a master bus compressor and over, you know, drive circuit and stuff. You can just give the engineer a stereo out and your sound is as complete as it can be from one case, then that's definitely appealing. And at home, you know, I like I like having the ability to kind of do as much as I can without needing to on the computer up to a point, but I think for me, I would probably still do my mix down, I would still kind of try and record stems and then you know, mix down at my leisure with plugins and other hardware. I'm not sure for me there's a real need to have a much in the word dynamics. Having said that, I do have the old Danny sound um dynamics modules and the VM meters, which I kind of use more if I'm using them. I tend to use them on drums as more of a creative effect. And you know, it was an earlier stage with the drive and the EQ and and the and heavily compressing stuff, but I probably wouldn't use them as my kind of mastering compressor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for me, like creative effects or create any any type of processing that for me uh could be used in a creative way, I think is quite nice to have within those sorts of systems. But anything that gets a bit more surgical or polish-based, I have a tendency to just prefer to do that in a DAW. It's it's kind of honestly a bit of a stress dream the idea of trying to mix a track in your Iraq while you're composing the track in your Iraq. It just I I just I feel like you it the the worry for me would just be I spend so long trying to tweak the sound when it just doesn't matter. Like it's more just like let's capture the idea in its uh in its like purest form. And if I want to tweak or polish something afterwards in a DAW account, I think yeah, you you can just end up going down rabbit holes of like trying to perfect everything without a computer. And personally, I just find the computer really convenient.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's yeah, the recall and all that stuff if you've got multiple projects on the go and being able to kind of save your the the state of your plugins and stuff and just do do work on the mix over multiple sessions quite easily, that kind of thing, not having to commit early.
SPEAKER_00Um that's all the questions that we've had uh so far. Um if you have any more, um please do email us. Uh the email is signalflow at signalsounds.com. Um we'll be keeping an eye on those coming in and we'll just pick ones that we think we can talk about at any great length. Uh and uh it's it's been really lovely again just to have all the positive feedback and just thank you so much for that. That's been that's been a nice surprise.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And for all the people that were asking about surge stuff as well, um don't do not worry. Uh next episode we'll go into that in a bit in the context of Luke's live set, and we'll also start talking a bit more about some other surgy things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll tease it, tease the surge a little bit just because uh I think it needs to be a whole episode.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we'll do a full deep dive um probably in a couple of episodes' time, I'm sure, on that. Um, and yeah, lots more stuff to cover next time round as well. We'll talk a bit more about any other new gear that's arrived, and we'll um be able to report back at some point on how Luke's quad uh performance went too, which I'm looking forward to hearing in in the flesh, so I can give an audience perspective on it as well. Um, because you won't be are you gonna be in the middle of the room for that? No, so you won't get the full quadruphonic experience.
SPEAKER_00That's that's the only thing that I'm sort of like I I in the prep day, we've got like the night before and from 5 pm till 7. Um on the night, I think I just need to sit in the space and sort of like get a bit of a handle on how it all sounds, uh, and then also move out of that uh out of the sort of four-speaker setup and see how it sounds outside of there from my perspective performing. Um, because yeah, the the the tricky thing is I've been obviously like rehearsing in my bedroom where I'm sat in the middle and I'm like, oh yeah, okay, I can have a total handle on how everything is moving around, but it gets quite subtle, especially like when you're further away.
SPEAKER_03You've got a quadraphonic bedroom. That's a fact.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, I I have a I don't have a quadruphon. I've got my monitors uh that I have set up, and then uh I stole the speakers from my front room that we use for a little vinyl. So it's such a lobsided setup because I've got like a three-inch driver at the back and then like a seven-inch driver at the front. Good. Careful you.
SPEAKER_03That's probably a great point to uh to end. So um, yeah, thanks very much again for watching. Please do like, subscribe, tell your friends, spread the word, leave a review on the podcast platform of choice as well. That really helps to kind of uh get the word out as well. Yeah, don't bother telling your friends if they don't like synths. Yeah, or if you don't like it.
SPEAKER_02Or if you don't like it. I either are those.
SPEAKER_03Please only share positive uh feedback around the place. Um but yeah, we'll see you next time. Thanks for watching. Cheers. Bye.