Signal Flow

Talking Vhikk X with Fletcher from Forge-TME!

• Signal Sounds • Season 1 • Episode 5

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In this episode, Tom and Luke are joined by Fletcher from Forge-TME - the brains behind the highly sought-after Vhikk X Eurorack module - for an extended chat at the Signal Sounds Glasgow HQ. We cover the origin story of the brand, the development of the module and what owners can expect from the upcoming new algorithms, as well as reflecting on this year’s Superbooth and the current modular landscape. Big thanks to Fletcher for coming up to hang out - this one was a lot of fun!

Vhikk X is (sometimes) available here:

https://www.signalsounds.com/forge-tme-vhikk-x-eurorack-synth-voice-module


Get in touch with questions, feedback and suggestions via signalflow@signalsounds.com

Find out more about the gear discussed at signalsounds.com

SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome to the next episode of the Signal Flow podcast with me, Luke Palmer.

SPEAKER_03

And me, Tom Churchill. And we have a special guest with us for the first time on Signalflow, Fletcher from Forge TME. Hello. All the way from Melbourne, Australia to sunny Glasgow. The sun is poking out from the cloud today.

SPEAKER_00

Messing up our white balance on the video.

SPEAKER_03

So if we get kind of shadows and light kind of alternating, that's why uh probably won't stay sunny for long. Um but yeah, Fletcher, thanks for joining us. You have been in Glasgow for the last week or so, I believe, after a bit of time in Berlin post-superbooth.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it stuck around there for another week or so.

SPEAKER_00

Um and how was your super booth?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was it was it was pretty crazy, but good to finally get to one. Yeah, so this was the first one you've been to in person. Yeah, yeah. Uh I I almost made it uh last year. I think I just couldn't it's it's a big trip over, so I couldn't quite make it work, but um yeah, I had the booth set up with the instruo folk.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and you were the tent with the Glasgow Synth Guild as well, who were doing the manufacturing for the VicX.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And Morgan from Wrong Electronics was there as well. I mean, something happened to him, but yeah, he's he seemed to disappear in the in the park and was replaced with a glowing orb. Yeah, no, it was it was it was good though. I think that was probably the best way for me to to do superbooth as well, because uh the other booths were pretty hectic.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I think where Insta were always based out in the forest area, kind of in the middle, um, which is kind of shady. You've got camp chairs out the back. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um it feels like a commune in some ways.

SPEAKER_01

And were you headphones only in your tent as well? Yeah, there were uh there were one or two sets of speakers, but um respectfully loud, if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_00

It wasn't like a loudness walk, some of the tents are great.

SPEAKER_03

It was it was fine. Um yeah, there are some tents I just put my head in and I immediately get a migraine and have to leave.

SPEAKER_01

It's an exciting environment and like it's it's fun to meet people and and stuff, but like to actually get a synth demo when if there's multiple sets of speakers is yeah, it's a little bit challenging.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I I think we maybe said this in our or maybe we didn't say it, but I certainly thought it had super booth. It's um I don't actually find that environment the best for listening to gear properly and getting a proper demo. I'd much rather do that in my own time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's it's fun in its own right, but it's a bit orthogonal to actually like getting a like a deep kind of demo for I I feel like what we have a tendency to do is almost like the Thursday for us was a scouting day, and then the Friday morning where like it's like it's a bit quieter because it tends to busy up around the sort of noon afternoon time. That's like the only time I feel like I can get a demo where I'm like, Oh, I can actually hear the thing and the person's like the person's just had a coffee. They're not completely changed.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, the best time to get a demo is about 11 a.m. on the Thursday, I would say. Yeah. When they're set up, everything's working, and they're full of beans and not that many people are there yet. But it's uh yeah, I've I I do, I mean, I feel I said in the podcast actually, I really do feel for the people like you that have to work a stand the whole three days because it's um it's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's an interesting psychological experiment. Just to practice exactly the same conversation like hundreds of times. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, you must have you must have met, I guess, a few hundred people then over the course of the three days. Yeah, yeah. Um, were they mostly people that already had the module or were they people that didn't know much about it and wanted to check it out? It was probably 50-50.

SPEAKER_01

Um and even people that hadn't um played around with it before, I was I didn't really have like a demo lined up. Yeah so it was kind of we should probably actually say freeform.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think we've actually said in the podcast so far that you are the man behind the VicX module specifically, which is yeah what we're talking about here when we talk about the module. Yeah. Um and we've talked about it on the podcast before, and you know, we we sell it here and Signal Sounds does the global distribution and it's made here in Glasgow, but so we have quite close ties with that here.

SPEAKER_01

Um hence why I'm up here and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And for those that don't know, I mean, how how do you describe it when you have to in terms of what it does? Do you do you have a kind of um a one-line description of it? Because it's quite a hard module to categorize in a way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think just from talking to people at Superbooth, I think describing it as like a synth voice with effects, but without any modulation. And so it's you can put it in a modular case and and BYO modulation and control signals and stuff, but and it and it leans more to like macro control. Um it's not super like uh fine-grained.

SPEAKER_00

Um it's quite experiential in some way, you know, like it it just invites you to be like, oh, I'll just tweak this and just see what happens. You know, I think with a lot of synth voice modules, the front panel has a lot of familiarity of like, oh, there's a label that says filter, I know where I'm at, or there's a label that says like wave shape or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

And I think that's partly the multi-algorithmic nature of it as well. Like certain controls will do something that's kind of in the same ballpark, you know, but the the the control name needs to be something that's kind of generic enough to work for all those different. I mean, how do you is that a challenge when you're designing? Sorry to get a bit deep into the design process already, but when you're when you're making algorithms and stuff and you're thinking about what parameters are going to be mapped to which front panel controls, like that must be that must get more and more complex the more algorithms you devise, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's um it's a a blessing and a curse that it's just a kind of a open-ended interface and parameter mapping because um it Yeah, I can kind of do whatever I want with the the way that things are mapped, and and also a lot of the knobs are like bipolar in a sense that they do like the neutral position is. Yeah, they do different things either side of the noon, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03

So there's even more internal mapping that goes on, but have you like run into a situation where you're designing an algorithm and there's another parameter you'd like to expose for control, but you've kind of run out of Yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So you're so I guess you're sort of deciding what the most important sort of parameters to map out.

SPEAKER_01

And the most fun, I guess. Yeah. But um satisfying.

SPEAKER_03

Um well we'll come back to the origin story of the module, I guess, in a little bit, and we'll maybe go a bit deeper into the the you know, the the architecture of it and what you're planning next, because I know people are excited about the upcoming new algorithms, which depending on when this episode comes out, may or may not be available. Um they should be shortly after, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there's I've got a bit more testing to do and and I need to speed up the loading time when you switch between algorithms, which is it will be a little bit complicated. But I noticed that with a few people actually pointed it out when I was playing around with it. So just when you toggle the switches, it doesn't quite feel as instant as it should.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, how about I mean back to the superboo thing, I mean you must have had must be quite a good opportunity to get feedback from real world users because I guess you you presumably follow chat on forums and YouTube comments to an extent as well. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um it's still it's a bit it's a bit surreal to um getting my head around the online. Like sometimes there'll just be a Reddit thread that's got like a hundred comments on it. Yeah, but I'll find it like a month or two after it happened, and yeah, people are talking about something that I just like randomly made during COVID.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, it must be um must be a strange thing to address. Did you get much time at Superbooth to check anything else out?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I had a few walks around. Um uh well, alongside just meeting a whole bunch of the other manufacturers, which was really nice to do because Melbourne's a long way from Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I was gonna wonder one of the things I was asking you about before we started filming was like how connected you feel to the wider Euroract scene of makers, given that um I know obviously Morgan at Wrong Electronics is in Melbourne as well, and there's a few other brands in Australia, yeah. Um but you're geographically pretty distant from the rest of the scene.

SPEAKER_01

And and I'm in touch with all the folk at Instruo as well, pretty regularly. But aside from that, I I mean each of the trips that I've done, I've I've met a whole handful of new people that I've then keep in touch with. But like I work from home by myself every day, and then uh yeah, coming over here for the super booth is like it's like a portal to another dimension or something because suddenly there's hundreds of people that do the same thing that I do every single day. Yeah, yeah. And we can talk about chips and manufacturing and like yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm so not technical that I was like, why would you talk about like chips that prize?

SPEAKER_01

There's a good stall over on there, yeah. Triple cut salt. The salt and vinegar packets are a different colour.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean that's that is the thing with this industry. Uh uh, you know, it's a corner of the music tech industry, which is kind of dominated by very small one-person operations. You know, there's there's the the the businesses that have multiple employees like Instro and Make Noise and those guys are uh are the minority. And most, you know, there's a lot of um people that do everything, and you have to do the marketing, the design, the you know, the business side of everything.

SPEAKER_01

And it doesn't feel competitive like between manufacturers as well, which is like fantastic. And yeah, I feel grateful for that actually. So yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_03

That's not the default no, it does it does strike me as like a very fraternal kind of you know community of people that support each other. And um, I remember speaking to Jose at Vostok when we were um at Super this year as well, and he was like, Um, I think I'm really bad at business because I keep recommending other modules from other brands. In another business, that would be a terrible business practice to kind of recommend competitors, but it's like, well, they don't they do something that's a bit different from mine and it's better for your use case, so why wouldn't I tell you about it? You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um I don't think anyone's in Eurorac for you know the the to get rich to get super rich, are they no yeah, yeah, because I mean this might actually lead us into the intro story because your the the actual design of VicX was was a calling card to get a job, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, pretty much. Or uh it was at least a hedge that uh if um if I couldn't sell any of them, then at least you know I can use this as a as a C V and which it it ended up working because I that's how I got a job at Melbourne Instruments for like uh it was probably four four to six months or so that I worked there. But I kind of just because I don't have any formal engineering qualifications, so I just attached to like a photo, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So take us back then. What what what's your kind of route into this in terms of study and stuff then? You said you don't have any engineering qualifications.

SPEAKER_01

Did you go to you need to do something else or yeah, I did uh pure maths um undergrad. Okay. Um uh which dragged on for way too long, but because I kind of I started it in Canberra and then moved down and then the credit transfer got all messed up. So I was uh kind of doing that part-time while working in kitchens and um playing gigs and stuff.

SPEAKER_03

But um when you were playing gigs, what kind of music? What's your kind of musical background at that time? Were you doing electronic stuff or was it more bands?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was mostly kind of electro-y stuff. Uh most I think most of the gigs were club gigs. Um and it's just live sets rather than DJing. Yeah, yeah. I still I still don't know how to DJ, but I'll I'll learn how one day. Um yeah, uh because it would have been about 2014 or 2015. Well, I worked at a Suvlaki shop over the summer, saved up enough money to buy an Octatrack. And then as soon as I got the Octotrack, my friend Tim booked me for a gig. Right.

SPEAKER_02

You've got an Octotrack.

SPEAKER_01

Like a month or two afterwards, and I just told him, I was like, Oh, I guess like technically I could play like a live set now. He's like, you're ready now. Alright, so um nothing like a deadline to force you to learn something. Just read the read the manual front to back and yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So um so yeah, so you were playing live with this octo track um in Melbourne around 2015 sort of time, and then what's what's next?

SPEAKER_01

I can't remember what happened first, but I I also had a Shrewti, the like early mutable instruments DIY kit. Yeah. Um and so started to uh it probably happened at around the same time that um I started to like look for broken synths that I could buy for cheap and then fix up and use or or sell off um I got a few things through the m like music swap shop and gumtree and stuff. Um but a lot of the older synths you can find the service manuals for that have all the schematic and board layout and and at this point you were able to you were kind of proficient at soldering and schematics and stuff like that. Some definition of proficient but all self-taught though, right? You weren't you weren't studying this. Yeah, yeah. I did I did end up doing one electronics like first year uni subject. So I kind of knew a little bit about at least like what a multimeter is and yeah, what Ohm's law and stuff. But um yeah, mostly just got stuck into old service manuals and service manuals are amazing.

SPEAKER_03

I I was looking, there's a friend of mine's got an old um Tektronics oscilloscope that is a bit faulty, and I said I'd have a look at it for him. Uh and the service manual is a thing of beauty, it's like 200 pages. It's like we don't make them at this anymore. But these these products are designed to be you know serviced by engineers for decades, you know, and they've got like every circuit diagram, the exploded diagrams of the assembly and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

It's like it's like multiple full-time jobs worth of work just to just to make it.

SPEAKER_03

I know, yeah, they're awesome, and it's it's a it's a real lost art, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I was in this like post post-uni phase where I was just like had hospitality jobs and was kind of just kicking around and figuring things out, but um Yeah, so I cycled through a bunch of synths that I've had fixed up. Um and had a few share houses that I lived in with other musicians and we kind of had all of our gear in the living room. I don't think I quite had as I don't think I contributed as as much gear, but but I got to, you know, I got to like play around on some URAC systems. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So that was your first intro to modular stuff, was it, in that kind of environment as part of a share?

SPEAKER_01

And well, and also the the old found sound shop was very close to Melbourne Uni. Right. And so I would just pop over there between lectures and be an annoying 20 20-year-old or something. Um can I play on that? Yeah, yeah. All right. What does that do? You never you never bought anything. You bought a patch cable. Um, so I had they had they had even at that time had a pretty big modular system in there and kind of got to got my head around it, but um yeah, and and then using some at home and yeah, there there was a Juno 106 floating around and a few other keyboard poly synths and stuff, so I kind of yeah, I got to know a a bunch of synths there.

SPEAKER_03

I ended up with an FS1R at one point as well, but and used that with the Octotrack, which was so that's the the Yamaha rack mount FM synth, right? Yeah, very strange. Yeah, I've always been quite intrigued by that one. I've never never uh Jason's probably got one downstairs. There's probably three downstairs because he's got at least one of every synth.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's that's a very weird synth.

SPEAKER_03

It feels like a sort of powder blue sort of colour. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It feels like they were making a uh a sound module that would do speech synthesis and then decided to turn it into an actual synth.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um like vowely then, very like, yeah, it's like formant kind of like time domain. I think it's a like FOF synthesis, which is I think that's a French acronym, so I can't remember what it stands for.

SPEAKER_03

That's what Chaos Device is using the Sophia. It's like um it's kind of where you apply like extra wave LUTs on top of a base sine wave stuff in different and with a sort of envelope. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to know that. But it's it's good for that kind of like form and T speech synthesis kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of a computer music kind of discipline originally, I think. And yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So you've been like tinkering around in since that you were buying, like when when did you sort of almost start to be like, oh, I'd quite like to start designing something? What what when did that sort of come into it?

SPEAKER_01

I I think I'd I'd been toying around with the idea probably five years or so leading up to 2020. But I think if the the combination of COVID and um uh JLC offering surface mount assembly and a few really good YouTube videos. They kind of like it it went from being something that I I imagined would take like years and years to being like, oh this is this is quite feasible. I feel like I've uh collected enough you know, information to at least know what I don't know. Um and there was a a decent amount of like immutable instruments derived kind of circuit sub-blocks floating around for like a CV input or like a URC power um reverse polarity protection and like that. So I I had kind of collected a few things like that. So you can kind of like piece it together, yeah, yeah. Um and so I probably made like five or six different things that were like the first thing was maybe just a board with a few knobs and like an audio output, yeah. And then yeah, a few dev body looking things, and then I did make a like a drone synth that was in a Hammond enclosure. Okay. But I can't find any of them. And I don't think I think I've got a photo of it somewhere, but that was also the first time I used the name Vic because it's all straight lines, and I could just draw it in the the PCB editor.

SPEAKER_03

Ah, so is this the origin story of the name? Which you claimed before recording was really banal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think I just I I wrote down all the letters that you can just draw with straight lines, and that that fell out, I guess.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Is it a reference to I wasn't sure whether it was a sort of veiled reference to the Victoria, the state in Australia?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I didn't even consider that until someone asked a few years later, and I was like, oh, I guess so, but an accidental reference. If anything, it's because it it maybe it sounds like it could be from the same like etymological route as like voice, but in like a different language or something. Yeah, I was like, oh, okay, maybe yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I can see that, yeah. Yeah. So the VIC X that we that is the current in-production module, that was preceded by the original VIC without the X. Yeah. And you made a certain number of them for sale. I guess that's probably quite a rare collectible item now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I wrote it down. I I I made between 50 and 60, but I don't know the exact number because there was a handful of one-offs for friends and yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um how different was that to the the the X that we sort of see today? Is it like like was it like spiritually quite similar, or did you sort of really kind of push push the boundaries of the what you were doing before before like to get to the X?

SPEAKER_01

Um the the X is definitely uh successor Um thematically and uh uh sound algorithm-wise. Um It was just it was 18 HP and had a couple fewer knobs, but still all the pieces of the puzzle were there.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So in 2021, I was living by myself and I was also on the COVID welfare payments. So I was I was unemployed and living by myself, and we were in lockdown for a lot of 2021. I think in Melbourne we had the most days in lockdown of of any city in the world.

SPEAKER_00

So that that'll that'll give you time to work on work on the old passion project.

SPEAKER_01

But at the same time, I could see the parts starting to go up in price and the stocks started to become a bit patchy. So I needed I needed to design I need I needed something that I could design the hardware for quickly. So I I feel like if I had if that wasn't the case, I might have ended up designing something like maybe maybe a bit more like the the K accumulator that's come out. Maybe without the Delta Sigma stuff, but more of a like digital complex oscillator.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But um I think if doing a design like that, you need to front load a lot more of the actual the layout and the ergonomics of using it, and you already need to kind of know what the DSP is gonna be doing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Whereas for the original Vic design, I was I thought I'll just design design it kind of vague and then I'll figure out what it's gonna do later in software. So that's that's why I like all the time.

SPEAKER_03

So it's kind of led by the hardware design and stuff, and then it's like, okay, I've got this form factor, what am I gonna do under the hood to make it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's interesting. And the the that's why the parameter names are kind of vague as well. Yeah. And and I did I had a relatively like complete vision of how I wanted it to feel. Um I still feel like I haven't realized that that vision. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um that's why the or the whole aesthetic of it, or do you mean uh the in terms of the algorithms that are running on it?

SPEAKER_01

So that's that's also why the the newer updates are taking so long, is because I keep realizing I keep running up against like roadblocks in my my understanding, and then like, well, I'm gonna learn about wavetables for the next four months.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, um Do you I mean, do you do you generally kind of consider yourself a perfectionist then when it comes to this stuff? You know, another another maker might have rushed to cash in on the fact that you've got this, you know, like here's more algorithms and kind of rush stuff out, but you seem to be very happy taking your time over it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it I'm fortunate that I am able to because the like the the sales have still been steady and that this is my full-time job as well now. But I'm not uh you know, it's a blessing and a curse because you've got the luxury of function especially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You might not know but it's it's been a good vehicle for me to learn more about the DSP stuff in general. Yeah. I think the the original Vic and then even the the kind of the launch algorithms for VicX, they they work and they're fun, but I don't actually like I didn't really understand much about the like the DSP mathematics and the the like how the code is actually doing what it's doing. It was a little bit more like duct tape and massaged into like kind of feeling.

SPEAKER_00

Which is surprising because it's so popular and people absolutely lose their mind over how good it is. Do you know what I mean? Like it's almost like I like imagine the algorithms once once you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03

I mean if that's what you've cobbled together with gaffer tape, then I can't wait to see what you craft once you've uh once you've found those skills because it's it looks like yeah, the the the secret to it is that it runs at 96k.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And when it when it when you run at 96k, you can kind of just do naive things and it still sounds good. Yeah. Whereas if if you're running it the DSP at 48 or 44.1, yeah. You you hit a kind of spectral threshold a lot earlier, and you the aliasing byproducts can they they're a lot more annoying.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But I mean, one thing a lot of people say about it, and you know, it's quite audible and you hear it, is like it does sound very um kind of like the the sound is quite finished and polished and kind of almost mastered sounding. And am I right in thinking that you've you've applied some kind of um EQ type processes at the output stage to kind of give it that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there is like there's just a little mastering strip that's also running, so like a mid-scoop and a kind of um dynamic range, yeah, compression and stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Because it sounds yeah, it sounds like a kind of finished track when you plug it in, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Kind of it's but I I also like the idea of that being in the middle of a like a signal chain. Like you follow it up with some filtering and like wave shaping or something like that, and it's a it's a bit of a different, like uh yeah. I I think because it has sort of delay and reverb, I think a lot of people it's like that's the that's the end of the chain. But I like the idea of that being the start of the chain. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um and I guess one question I have is sort of like you you're kind of coming from a an electro background, and you kind of had this octa track and you're performing these live shows. Uh the Vic feels like not the kind of thing I would have expected someone making electro to make. Like, what what was what was the the design process for like actually making something that's like because it's quite it can do really nice ambient stuff, but it does the sort of really chaotic sort of like textural stuff.

SPEAKER_03

The cinematic drone sort of stuff as well. It's it seems to be the I mean I don't know whether it's fair to say that's the focus of it because it's obviously it's what you do with it, but out of the box it seems like it's kind of geared towards that kind of big cinematic, sound design-y, drony sort of stuff. And was that like something musically you were more interested in at the time you were making it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I well, I think that's what that's it felt like a gap in what I already had, maybe. Like I was well served for like more like bread and butter sounds and percussion and that sort of stuff. And so I kind of wanted something that was just, you know, maybe for an intro or like a transition or something, it's just like crazy sounds an atmosphere machine. But then also starting from that idea and then thinking like with with those building blocks in place, like what else can come out of it? Like there's more like normal synth voice stuff and weird effects swells and yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So do you use it in your own music making today? Yeah, and and how much like do you have time to make music these days aside from running the company? I mean, how much how do you divide your time, I guess, in that sense too? Do you manage to carve out a bit of time to be creative?

SPEAKER_01

Um so yes, I do use it. Um I've I've only just started integrating a modular system like and actually using it in real time, whereas previously I was kind of just making sample banks and long recording sessions and chopping them up on the computer or in the Octotrack and um but now I've yeah, I've I've been using URC more and more, and it's also given me more ideas about some future modules that I'd like to design.

SPEAKER_00

But um because this is one thing that surprised me about it, because I remember I think it was Machina uh when you were showcasing, it was like really early days for us being involved with the VICX. Um I remember getting a message being like, Can you sort a demo case out for Fletch? Because he doesn't own a Eurorack case. I was like, How can the guy who's made like the most popular Eurorack module we've sold in the last few years?

SPEAKER_01

I did have a case, but it was very DIY and very janky.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Just stuff pouring out the back.

SPEAKER_03

But I am right thinking of that when you first started building in the Eurack format, you weren't a particularly prolific Eurorack user yourself. No, I know.

SPEAKER_01

I just had a few other things that I'd yeah um designed.

SPEAKER_03

And did you choose uh why did you choose Eurorack as the format for the synth then?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it just it just seemed like the kind of the only option. Um doing the doing a full standalone device um you know requires a lot more uh like certification and manufacturing complexity.

SPEAKER_03

I mean when you're using power supplies, yeah, yeah, and doing a full enclosure for it and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01

And I and I also don't like in in terms of uh having it as a um resume piece, uh I felt like you know, I don't it doesn't give me that much more if it's a standalone device where like I can still show that I can do all of the electrical electronics design.

SPEAKER_03

It's the electronics side of it that's the the calling card. Yeah. And yeah, should we go back to that aspect briefly as well? I mean, you mentioned you created it as a as a kind of CV calling card thing, and you mentioned briefly that that led to uh um a job at Melbourne Instruments. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and what were you what were you doing there?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so the the first batch of VicX that I made was that that was in mid-2023, and then I ended up getting a job at Melbourne Instruments late 2023. Um while they were uh working on the dealer and the rotor control, I just yeah, yeah, but yeah, that was it was interesting to get like because I was just self-taught and working by myself, and then I kind of got a glimpse into how a bunch of like career engineers operate, and I think their backgrounds were more um high-tech mass market industries, so yeah, um that was very uh like eye-opening and yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You were there for four to six months, was that because VicX took off yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, I was kind of wondering, I was wondering like four to six months isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

I was doing two two to three days a week there, I think, and then all the rest of my time I was basically soldering it. I think it was I was in my friend's garage for a while and then and then I started building them out the back of Found Sound. Um and I and around that time Lewis from Found Sound uh gave like I think on maybe two batches, gave me an advanced payment, which meant that I could like do the parts ordering and like kind of juggle um the Melbourne instruments work as well.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, so I'm grateful for that yeah, Lewis kind of basically helped launch the product and the I was gonna say that the cash flow side of launching a product is the bit that I think a lot of people struggle with because you do need to have that initial investment to buy the get the ball to order, get the parts in, and then you know, and then have the time to sit and solder them together yourself if that's what you're doing, if you're not outsourcing that yet, you know. Um so yeah, shout out Found Sound for getting the ball rolling there.

SPEAKER_01

It's also it's a it's a it's a really nice shop if if you're ever in Melbourne and a and a good bunch of people there. Yeah, big modular setup.

SPEAKER_03

So where are we? So we're on the timeline now. We're kind of I guess we're into 2024 sort of time. You've um and and the last couple of years, I guess, have been a process of moving the manufacturing or outsourcing the manufacturing to the Glasgow Synth Guild and kind of helping to scale things up a bit. I mean, one thing that's quite still quite apparent is people um complain it's not available enough.

SPEAKER_00

And why aren't you soldering them yourself still one by one?

SPEAKER_03

Um, you know, people I think people are I mean, I I I think from a from a business point of view, I think you've kind of hit quite a nice sweet spot here of just the right amount of scarcity that the the demand is still, you know, that you have you have that kind of like because that's a real thing, that kind of scarcity and the FOMO thing where people are like, Well, I must buy this thing and it's it's quite hard to get, so I'll pre-order it.

SPEAKER_00

And which is also not manufactured, uh, you know, like on your end, it's like they're almost like we're doing a run of a thousand, there's like another run of a thousand getting queued up. It's like there's there's quite a lot. It's just there's so there's such a high demand, especially when you factor in worldwide, that um, you know, to order a thousand parts takes a long time and then they've got to get made.

SPEAKER_03

Um, Glasgow Synth Guild is obviously a step up from doing itself, but they are not like a Chinese factory. They are they are you know six people in a in a you know a Glasgow building doing their best to churn them out so so people don't everyone's working as fast as they can.

SPEAKER_01

I don't I I I don't like the fact that it like the the scarcity, like uh like the fact that it's been on pre-order for kind of its entire life cycle. Yeah, but so this wasn't a strategic. No, and and actually like at every batch, I just spent all my money on on more parts. So I think it was like 25 and then 30 and then 50 and then 75 and then and I think yeah, it's just that every time that ordering cycle happens, it's like you know, something will be a 12-week lead time, yeah, and it'll be a different thing each time. And it's like, well, I can't really do much of it.

SPEAKER_00

And the other thing as well, from like our perspective, is like that sometimes Alex will ask, like, how many of these do you think we should make? And that could be like quite a tricky question to ask because to be honest, I would have expected us to have reached peak Vic equilibrium sort of by now, but it seems to be endearingly popular.

SPEAKER_01

I kind of would have thought I thought I would make like a hundred of them. Yeah, like was it uh to because to be honest, when I was when I was doing the design, I thought uh most people will kind of like feel like the way that you um mentioned that you like it's you know, I can see the appeal, but it's like not quite for me because it's it's it's not really congruent with traditional Euroac in that sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because I think when I was mentioning it in our first episode, I was kind of saying that my my personal setup is a bit more kind of you know based on traditional patch programmable. And I'm aware I'm a bit of a dinosaur in that regard as well. And I do think you know that the the the commercial evidence is pretty clear that people do want this kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It just it feels like an an accident in the design process that it's way.

SPEAKER_03

I yeah, I guess you've just sort of hit on the point of the market where these kind of modules are actually, you know, kind of I don't want to say in fashion as such, but they're like there there has been a shift to more digital platform-based stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Um and it also felt like uh something that was very different from the other digital platform stuff that exists as well. Like it f it felt very, very novel when it first came out. There wasn't really anything that was like in this corner, and there still kind of really isn't, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, I think the aesthetic is still unique, I would say, and the you know, the sort of language around it that you use and the kind of the look and feel of the website and the panel and that kind of stuff. It's all it how how considered is all that? Like how how conscious are you of of the visual branding and the that side of it? Are you just doing what comes naturally? You you sit down and thinking, oh, I need to, you know, make it look really mysterious, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um it's more or less just what what falls out when I when I start kind of playing with the the graphics or the the layout and stuff. And um I I used to take a lot of photos and I think that honed my my own like personal aesthetic sensibilities, but I haven't really approached it with an overarching like cohesive vision. It's just kind of like it's like just kind of doing one thing at a time, and then maybe in hindsight I can say, Oh, this is you know relatively from the outside, it's probably cohesive, but that's only because I'm just doing what feels right at any given like moment.

SPEAKER_03

But I mean we talked in the first episode of the pod about like the the the sort of um almost anti-marketing strategy, you know, like it's it's it's um you've you've done incredibly well considering you haven't really done the conventional um route of like paying a bunch of influences to make videos about it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I would I would feel bad doing so if there's no stock anywhere. So yeah. I've I've I've kind of been waiting, waiting for them to be spare stock, you know. And then maybe I'll you know I'll like focus more on that. But yeah, in the meantime, I'm just kind of keeping away at the algorithms.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's not there's there's no yeah, like you say, there's no point wasting money on that stuff if it's selling well by itself. Um and it's also it's also a point of difference, I think, which people appreciate too. Like it doesn't feel like it's something that's being rammed down their throats in the way that some marketing is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I do feel like there's there's a growing consensus of almost like sometimes a bit of a oh, here we go, there's a product launch, and my entire YouTube feed is now going to be this one new product from like 10 different YouTubers. Like I and I kind of understand that, you know, it sort of sometimes does feel a bit like of a of a bombardment of like, oh, I can't no, I can't like not be this is just so in my line of sight now for for a new release.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, and I and I think I think I've because I haven't really pushed on any marketing material, it's it's allowed for a few like community members to to like fill the gap, which so you seem to have like a loyal a bit of a loyal fan base already, really, I think.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and there's some great content that people have made about or some great videos people have made about the VicX, which are obviously just they've just made them off their own back, and you know, yeah, there's a there's a couple in particular that I think have been really effective kind of demos of it. I think like Jay Hoskings one and something like that, you know, which have been been that's the dream I guess if they're just made a few um who's that sorry, Metamitha.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, a few other like more instructional yeah videos as well. But yeah, it's it's um it's been nice to like and I'll probably now I have all th those people as connections where if I'm if I'll when I make something new, I probably will yeah, like at least like reach out and work with them and yeah, but yeah, for now it's just kind of it has happened on its own. And um yeah, so and and I feel like there's there's scope to have fun with the like marketing stuff anyway.

SPEAKER_00

So we were discussing the other day about um a real love for like the sort of like 80s and 90s sound on sound posters. Yeah, I'd love to see an 80s, 90s expanded.

SPEAKER_01

That motorbike um DX100 TV commercial. Yeah, there's some gold.

SPEAKER_03

There's always smoke in those videos as well. Yeah, and the kind of light at the right angle, and often things are rotating on a plinth film.

SPEAKER_00

I can't wait to see the VICX commercial.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it'll be on free-to-air TV for sure. Four by three aspect ratio as well.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so are you able to divulge any future plans? I mean, I know the algorithms are coming. You sort of alluded to some new potential hardware ideas now that you'll be you've been using a slightly sort of fuller Eurorex system yourself. Is it uh is there gonna be a sort of successor to the VIC, or are there gonna be um modules that maybe work alongside it to do certain things?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think more so uh complementary rather than replacing it. Uh like I don't have any concrete designs like ready, ready to go, and I'll still be doing the algorithms pretty much full-time for the uh foreseeable future. And I've I also spoke to a few other manufacturers that I that I like about doing maybe some collaborative designs as well, which that could be fun. Again, that that's pretty long term. Um but uh yeah, I've I'm I'm kind of slowly pushing forward a handful of things, but nothing is solidified as a next product yet.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, so are you feeling the the sort of oh we briefly spoke about this at Superbooth, I think, after some like beer and sausage uh like the the sense of like uh of it having to follow up almost like a difficult second album, you know, like because this is like it's almost like everything that you anything that you do is got to follow the Vic X, and so in some ways it's almost like, whoa, that's like that do you feel like that's a daunting process, or are you kind of like, nah, I'll just do the next thing that's interesting to me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I've I've been back and forth on this. I could just make a passive malt. And then and then and then album three is amazing. Um yeah, I uh I don't think yeah, I I think it won't affect like the first 90% of doing a design, but then maybe at the end I'll I'll have to reflect on it a bit and and temper my expectations about like an audience and like sales numbers and and so on. But I feel like um at least for the modular stuff that I'm thinking of, I I th I don't know if it will hit exactly the same kind of audience that that this has reached. So um it'll be interesting to to see like what further insights I can I can gain from that.

SPEAKER_00

I also think there's like gonna be an interesting thing where you were kind of mentioning the the algorithms felt a bit uh almost I guess primitive or duct taped together and the algorithms you're working on now feel you know like you're like talking about them in a much more like uh assured sense. It'll be interesting to see now that you are using Eurack more and you're kind of like that that whole ecosystem is something you're a bit more involved with what a what a forged TME design looks like that is more inspired by the actual wider Eurorack. Because this felt like it was very much designed in isolation almost of itself. Yeah yeah um it'll be interesting to see what those sort of like new ideas generate I think.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah I was thinking it must be quite tough as a designer at this stage of Eurack, you know, after you've had 30 odd years now of um of you know where do you what do you do that hasn't already been done in a sense you know um or what's your take on it that makes it unique and and and because you know the world doesn't need any more you know attenuverters mixers or it doesn't s20 style filters. Yeah yeah you know it's like we we get we get enough of of most kinds of module now. Yeah like you don't really need to make an ADSR envelope generator saying I mean you're more than welcome to if you want to of course but it probably wouldn't be quite as unique and special as as the Vic X.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I I feel like one idea that kind of I stumbled into with the VICX was that having like you know dozens or hundreds of internal parameters that get randomized but you can kind of scan through it with the seed and scan knobs. And I feel like maybe that idea applied to some other um you know sound generation or sound processing. So is this like procedurally generated random that you can move back and forth through yeah you can kind of search through and find like a little zone that you like that works.

SPEAKER_03

There's an interesting application of that in the A to V project or that of um dual harmonic oscillator they've got their kind of um it's the same stuff they use to do like parallax backgrounds in you can kind of like move backwards and forwards through this kind of random landscape which is quite I've I always and there's something similar in the Delta Sigma generator and the K accumulator as well. Yeah yeah where you can you can evolve it and then you can always revert back to how it was and you can kind of manually so that I think that's a a pretty rich area to explore for sure.

SPEAKER_01

If you yeah if you design something that has it's like a multiplicity structure in some way so like lots of oscillators or a big filter bank or something like that. Then um the way that you parameterize that and map that to the knobs like that encodes lots of small decisions but you can kind of maybe hoist some of those decisions onto the user at runtime. But in a in a the kind of scanning through alien radio kind of yeah um yeah so there's there's a few things there that I'd like to explore and I don't necessarily feel like everything's been done in in that sense. Like I it feels like we're just getting started in in many ways and I think maybe at least for me like I don't I don't use any AI stuff but what what it has been useful for as a mental exercise is to think about kind of a like a like post AI kind of way of doing things where it's like it gives you ideas about new ways of working but you don't actually need to use the the AI to do to do anything. And I think especially in music hardware where like the music hardware has kind of already weathered the storm before with the rise of like laptops and DAWs and stuff. So it's already clear that people like this because of the experience and because of the process rather than being very outcome driven.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah yeah and so that's because people always you know oh you could do all this stuff you do with the modular and in software for like you know but it's like yeah that's not the point. It's not it's not about the the end result. It's about the the journey of getting there and the interface you use to do it, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I speak to a lot of people in the showroom and sometimes I'm like talking to someone and I'm like oh I can see that you're like very outcome driven here. Yeah. And then other people are like quite clearly experiential driven. And I I like to think that like a a bit of some something of a balance is like always quite quite useful because if you just get on the experiential train then it's really easy to never make anything and you just like you know and that's also cool you'll have a you have a lot of you know ultimately you don't need to be outcome driven at all. It's just an exercise of having fun.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah I'm increasingly comfortable with not finishing stuff. Yeah as I get older it's like the the journey is the fun part for me a lot of the time. Yeah yeah um you don't you know you don't have to I mean yeah this is a whole other topic for another day I guess we'll save that for a future podcast.

SPEAKER_00

One thing I did I was curious about was um there's been a bit of you know chatter so far about like what then like about these new algorithms um how how do they differ to what the current Vic uh algorithms offer and what what could what can be expected when that does come out so the yeah the like I mentioned I had this kind of original vision for even for the Vic original non-X version um and the actu the actual algorithms that have come out so far have been like my my best attempt at trying to achieve that vision but it still kind of uh falls short in a sense because it it kind of feels like a like an obfuscated normal synth voice in a way that I would like to kind of try to um get away from but it's a it's a little bit uh abstract to actually explain it.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah the the the original vision was that it would be more like um abstract and more kind of amorphous not necessarily like um you know this is a wavetable oscillator and this is a filter knob but more of the like this is a Tambral shift but um and I keep coming back to this like there's the the term acousmatic which is about like um I think that's like an early tape music kind of term about um not uh sound that doesn't have a like an explicit source or that like I guess in early recorded music doesn't originate from an acoustic instrument or something yeah yeah yeah but and thinking about maybe like what what the term would mean the electronic equipment yeah so it's not obviously like second order acoustic it's not soil wave through a filter yes like some other yeah I see what you mean. Yeah yeah whereas the so the existing algorithms are they they are it does still feel a little bit like you know this is a the architecture is slightly more conventional in terms of the and you just but you just have sort of macro control over it. Yeah but I keep running up against things like like textural noise generation where like that's like a few months of a rabbit hole and there's so many things that are a rabbit hole that I'll get sucked into for a few months at a time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it is it just keeps kind of it it still will take a little while for me to actually get to a point that I'm happy with. But I have collected a bunch of the algorithms that were works in progress and I'll release nine of those just because I know that this will still take some time. But in the meantime um yeah I've I've I'll release a smaller update. I think I've I had mentioned a few times that I want to wait until everything is finished and then release the update but yeah that the more I learn the yeah the more that it seems even further away.

SPEAKER_03

But like I'm I'm committed to doing this and um and I'm learning a lot of DSP stuff along the way which will then be useful for future things as well then yeah yeah I've got a sort of fairly abstract question for you which you can feel free to ignore but do you consider yourself an engineer or an artist or or something that's a bit of both and neither because the way you talk about these algorithms and stuff it's like it's almost like it's beyond I would it's beyond what I think of as kind of like simple engineering stuff. It's like you've got a vision for a new almost like a new way of thinking about sound. And you're this is very much a project with these algorithms where these algorithms are almost like they're almost like bits of music in an album or albums of their own potentially in terms of the amount of work that's going into them. So it feels like there's a real creative dimension to running your business you know which is which is not just like here's a cool thing that makes cool noises. It's like you you you obviously think about the stuff very deeply so like do you do you see this as an art project or an engineering project or do you not think of it in either of those terms?

SPEAKER_01

It's it's a bit of both and I think that's like the best part about working in this industry is that like some days it's like what I'm working on is very like in the weeds like programming like technical engineering stuff. But then I feel like most of the time it's or at least working on this it it's kind of I'm listening and tweaking things and listening back and then putting it in a musical context and like it feels like there's there's a balance of yeah both both facets. And I think yeah this is the the best job in the world for me because I get to just do both those things. Yeah you probably wouldn't get to do this if you're working at a bigger you know um yeah company with lots of other engineers making mass market products yeah yeah because I I like I I I actually really love getting in the weeds with the embedded programming and like it's it like it just tickles my brain in the right way.

SPEAKER_00

So like uh and do you find the same thing with like the the R D element in terms of like you you you've mentioned a few times like coming up against these roadblocks and you're like oh cool I've now got to learn about uh noise texture generation for four months is that four months like oh god I've got a really like or is that process of like getting really deep into that like something you enjoy?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I love it. Yeah that's that's why that's why it's taking so long oh no another roadblock well it's like I just it it's uh I I really like the feeling of just like not knowing anything about like a specific problem and just being like well like I now need to learn everything about this and and just kind of like it maybe being a bit like psychologically playful with it as well and and thinking about like I'm gonna I'm gonna try this before I learn anything see what I come up with and then check if that was even in the right ballpark and then maybe you make some weird mistake that ends up being like fruitful happy accidents yeah yeah just in the more of an engineering domain. Because there's there's a lot of DSP literature out there and a lot of um like non-music technology DSP literature and it's an interesting exercise to see even the there's there's a lot of um like image processing like research publications that it it's it's kind of interesting to to think about because it's still DSP but it's it's in like maybe two dimensions or something. But looking at kind of like interdisciplinary yeah so how you might apply that stuff like an audio kind of content.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah yeah and sometimes you can pull out just even just like one little idea and that's worth the whole 300 page long well yeah that seems yeah that's that's quite a unique world you're occupying I think um in terms of your I have to I have I have to be careful about not getting too bad away. I mean I guess that's one downside to being a one person operation as well you don't have anywhere to say stop doing that.

SPEAKER_00

We need to get the thing out the door we've got deadline to hit yeah but um yeah one thing that I feel like is very strong about the Vicx is the sweet spots are very wide. Like there are quite a lot of modules where I'm like this sounds good but I kind of need to spend like 10-15 minutes getting there and it doesn't sound very good in a large chunk of these positions. The one thing that I have enjoyed about my time with the VIC is like as I'm exploring and going from A to B, the journey from A to B also usually sounds just as good as A and B.

SPEAKER_01

How do you like as a designer how how have you like factored in those sweet spots and is there like any process in particular that you have like had to do in order to make it so yeah it's it's just lots of um I've I've built up like a whole library of like um mapping functions that I guess there's there's a few synths that allow you to do that in like a mod matrix where you have like maybe like an exponential curve or a log logarithmic curve or something like that. But it's kind of for every parameter and every destination internally maybe the like the the actual curves that the parameter goes through like I kind of just try try one and play around with it for a bit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah it's kind of there's like a spot here that's not quite right and then try another one and like oh now that spot's right but then another spot it doesn't quite so it's very like iterative um just I've probably listened to this thing for thousands and thousands actually no like I've I would just put it on in the background and just send emails and we we've when I think when we first finally got one that we could put in the demo system in the in the um showroom for a while I think when we first got it we just plugged a few LFOs into it with a little bit of modulation and let it drone for the afternoon. And every now and then we're like it's doing something really cool though someone would come in turn an up and then just go back into the room and do it. And it does I mean it can just generate a lovely soundtrack for the day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I I think maybe because I came at this from like a bit of a like DAW sound design y background as well like I did just you know used to just make sounds on the laptop and then like load them onto the Octotrack and and in like Ableton or even a lot of the big like you know flagship plugins they've they'll have a a deep macro system. And I I loved setting up the macro mappings and um that kind of probably has informed how the the parameters have ended up feeling on the pickaxe.

SPEAKER_00

How many parameters m might one knob actually be controlling at any given time then is there like a like can you imagine like what the biggest number of like macro control would be probably a hundred and twenty eight for the for the seed and scan because they're doing a lots of internal randomization.

SPEAKER_03

Whoa um wow yeah that's because there's like the oscillator tuning offsets and oscillator amplitudes and oscillator uh waveforms and then the reverb section is like maybe 32 different delay lines or with their own length or with their own modulation um no wonder you find yourself in the weeds that's like 128 it's a lot like I imagine your I like to imagine your um workshop is like you know like when an FBI agent's hunting a serial killer and they've got a core board of lines and stuff like that do you have to do you have to have these kind of visual maps of stuff or is it all like I mean do you do you have any kind of like I think what's your workshop like is it just is it just a computer or do you have stuff like this?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah it's a computer yeah and then a bunch of music equipment next to me. I think earlier on I had to draw more diagrams but now that I've used the my like DSP library like the a kind of there's it just a few files that have a bunch bunch of DSP code in them and I've used them enough now that I can kind of go straight to the code. I mean the a lot of the code is like one one line of actual code and then like a paragraph of of comments of me taking notes while I was trying things a bit this did this did work this didn't work so it's very like um comment heavy.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah I guess the other thing I that that sort of struck me is you you know you were you were designing this in lockdown you self-taught and you made small quantities to begin with and but did you ever dream at that point did you have a dream in mind of where you might end up and if so was it anything like this well it not really I thought maybe I would do this as like a side hustle um and then hopefully get like a stable engineering job.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah it's it's been completely life changing in a positive way because now yeah I'm just doing this full time um it's a like a healthy I think I think by now it's only just caught up to like if I did stick with a normal job then like financially I think now it's like kind of hitting the same like it's caught up now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah you sort of take a hit to follow your dream a bit at the start and you could have spent that time working your way up the corporate ladder somewhere.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah yeah but now you're probably in a better position yeah yeah and and and with the like parts ordering and stuff as well it's yeah it's it's easy to spend all of your money yeah but you know it does it's it's starting to catch up and um and then day to day I just get to do kind of my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_03

I mean there's a bit of accounting and uh business stuff that yeah I didn't really think too much about but now is you gotta think about it at some have to think about yeah I mean do you do you think there'll ever be a point where you the business grows and involves other like do you think you'll ever hire someone to do some of that stuff for you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I've been thinking about it. I I think with Forge TME I think I'll just try to keep it myself at least for as long as possible. But I would like to maybe work with a few other people maybe as a like a set a different a new company but kind of starting it with a few core people as opposed to having like an employee where there's like you know the start there's nice to sort have like a a co-op situation or something like that. And work on some maybe some like more mass market music tech designs and stuff. But yeah that that's also a a long way off but no it's it's I mean it's still kind of surreal um especially because like I'm I'm just on on my own every day um at working at home chipping away and then yeah there's this super booth and I've been to two Bristronicas now and so I've got like this yeah this surreal kind of recontextualization of you know especially people coming up to me and saying like oh it's it's the most hyped module everyone's talking about it. Like I'm a little bit out of the loop so I don't really yeah like it's news to me. But I mean people keep buying them which is like an incredible and like I'm infinitely grateful for and a little bit perplexed by to be honest still it still feels like an accident but um yeah I'm just I'm yeah you wait for the bubble first episode actually this has all been a terrible mistake we thought there's somebody somewhere in the world that that that owns two and a half thousand of them got a refund order for three thousand um yeah the I'm just yeah I'm I'm extremely grateful and and also glad that it's you know fortuitously connected me with the crew over here.

SPEAKER_03

I was uh through Morgan I think post superbooth 2024 and we were chatting when he got back and and kind of he connected us all together and yeah um yeah now you've become you've become part of the extended signal sounds for sure you know with um honorary glass region yeah the kind of signal sounds instro access which has quite a few people in the orbit now yeah yeah which is cool but um yeah no thanks so much for giving up some of your time to come and chat to us on our little pod. Yeah of course um it's always great to hang out with you and um it's been really interesting to hear some of the behind the scenes stuff that makes Forge DME tick. Tickass tickets the big tick and so on. Yeah thanks very much and yeah everyone else watching um we'll see you again soon don't forget you can email us any questions or feedback at signalflow at signal sounds dot com we have an audio version if you're watching and if you're listening we have a video version so check out both um oh yeah and the the next batch yeah well depending on when when this gets released we're gonna release this to coincide with the next batch being available again or starting to flow out to stores they're currently building them as we speak as we speak right now on a Saturday morning. Yeah um so yeah the the the stock will be flowing again um there's a fairly big batch this time and they're there's a weekly plan to get them shipped to shops and distributors around the world so um yeah they'll be and another big batch to follow that batch as well so provided all the parts are fine um should be for the rest of the year it should reach peak. Yeah we're hoping I think collectively that um availability will be better than ever from now on um and at some point we may even have a a situation where they're in stock and you don't have to pre-order them and you've got to figure out how to market it now. Finally got to do the marketing but new algorithms will help with that no doubt as well. Yeah very excited to hear those but yeah no thanks again uh thanks for watching we'll see you soon cheers