Don’t tell the kids… we’re rethinking this whole gentle parenting thing

This one is for the moms who are quietly wondering… am I making this too easy for them?

We get into one of those moments that hits way deeper than it should—your kid says “you can’t make me”… and suddenly you’re spiraling into are we raising resilient humans or just really comfortable ones?

We talk about sports, commitment, chores, divorce guilt, overcompensating, and that constant push-pull between wanting our kids to feel safe and loved… but also not raising them to quit the second something feels hard.

There’s no expert advice here (obviously), just two moms trying to figure out how to raise good, capable, strong humans without screwing them up in the process.

If you’ve ever questioned your parenting after one random Tuesday meltdown… this one will hit.

And if you have the answers, please let us know… because we definitely don’t.

Don’t tell the kids

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Need a break from your endless to-do list? Welcome to Don't Tell the Kids. We're two busy moms sharing the real, messy, funny conversations about life and motherhood. I'm Mel, mom of three, wellness nerd, an entrepreneur, figuring it out as I go.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

And I'm Siobhan, single mom of two, usually barefoot, and always saying yes to life. No advice, just honest conversations on and off the mic. So grab your coffee, hide out in your car, and don't tell the kids. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

We're already recording, so good. So I should have formed. I don't know what we're talking about again today. Melanie's gonna surprise me. Of course. Yeah. Um, okay. What I actually want to talk about is you're like, whoa, seriously, no idea. Let's go. We can talk about whatever. Okay. Um, I want to talk about raising kids. Yes. And how do we make sure they have some grit and soft? Yeah. And I was thinking it'd be an interesting conversation anyway, because as a single mother, like you're with them primarily, and you're raising a man. And the reason this came up is because Brooks is playing football for the first time. Yeah. And he begged us to play tackle football, right? For like I remember. I'm getting the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah. I said no, I said no, I said no. Finally, I was like, you know what? I think we need to let him let him try. Yeah. So then, you know, we're the season's not quite over. And by the time this actually airs, the season will be way over. But anyway, and he is like being so frustrating about practice. And so one night he didn't want to go to party, he didn't feel like going to practice. That's the truth. But he said he was tired or some some bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

And and so Chris was said something to him, and Brooks actually said, You can't make me go. Yeah. Which definitely struck a chord in my husband as a right. And so we were started talking about it, and we started talking about like I was like, fuck, like, I've made their lives too easy.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Well, I don't think it's that life is too easy, and that's why your son didn't want to go to practice. Like, I'm not I'm not saying that both can't be true, but yeah, they're probably more mutually exclusive than you realize. Like, I don't think it's all in the same. But question, did he go to practice? No. And what did Chris say about it?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

He didn't say much that night. He was mad, he was pissed. He was like, we need to think about how to respond. I mean, he was also he was like, We need to think about how we're parenting is really what a kid brought up. Because it wasn't the first time either. It's not like he's been consistently going to practice every time at one time. He's like, I'm not going. It's like, and he's you know manipulative as shit. So like I knew he was we were outside and he's like, I'm going to lay in bed. And I was like, Why? Because dad won't make you go to practice if you're sleeping. And he looked at me and like smirked, and then you ended up laying on the couch instead. But that I mean he told her that. But but honestly, I started thinking about it, and I'm like, our kids like don't go to school because they they have a little bit of something, a little bit of a stomachache, you have a little bit of a sore throat, you have a little bit of a and I'm like, I'm raising three boys who I don't want to be soft. Like, I do want them to feel and I want them to have a voice and I want them to whatever, but I was like, shit, did I make their lives so easy that like if they don't want to do something, they don't feel like they have to.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

I mean it's hard for me to relate because the sports thing, Jaco's so like dedicated to it, so I've never asked. I was curious about this. Like, yeah, I don't know. He doesn't tell you like I don't want to. I mean, the other thing is like if he really loved football, is he is he is he gonna skip practice? What does he want to do? Just do the fun stuff. I would like does he love to just do games, or do you feel like he's not loving it as much as he thought he was going to? I don't know. That could be it, and that's kind of okay too, but you have to 100% also like I've talked to Jacquel about the idea that like you sign up for a team and this is a commitment and you finish the commitment. And I think that's more of the lesson in the sports.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

That's what Chris said. Chris said to him, like, you yeah, you decide to be on a team and your teammates are relying on you and you need to show up, period, right? And we have a conversation with him because we also said that we're like, I think he's he's got potential, yeah. And I was like, it's okay if this is no longer your dream. Yeah, it doesn't have to be your dream. We're not here to pressure you, but what we are doing or want to do is if you really think this is your dream, which he still says it is, yeah, then I was like, then it's kind of our job to kind of like, but maybe it's not, but I'm like, we don't how much do you push or like should he just want to go to practice? I I felt like he should just want to go to practice because you want to be the best, you want to show up and you want to play for the team.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

But that's not really what it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

I think the idea of understanding the the relationship between hard work and getting what you want. Like, let's say your kids live a wonderful, beautiful life and they travel and you have a beautiful home, and you know, obviously it seems easy from the outside, but they also like know Chris's story, right? Like and know that he didn't come from money and he built this because he's a super hard worker. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Neither one of us came from money, and we go to Ohio and they understand, and like and not that they haven't had any challenges in their lives, like we've moved them, they've moved schools, but really I'm like, I've also I'm like the mom who wanted to always make sure I had snacks and water and whatever, like fucking band-aids, god forbid, like how's that, you know? And Chris would always make fun of me and be like, you'd leave with nothing, and I'd be like, but they're gonna be hungry. And now I'm like, God, did I do them a disservice? Like having snacks is okay. To always be prepared though, to make them un not so they're not uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

That's what I worry about. I think there's a difference between you doing your job as a mother to make sure versus what you could do and say, all right, everyone, you need to have your snacks together for after school. Like giving them giving them responsibility. Like, you know, Michael's always like, you need to make that chore chart for the kids. I'm like, yeah, like your version of the chore chart is different than mine. Like we in the new house, we don't dishwasher. I don't wash dishes. The kids wash the dishes, the kids do their laundry. Like, I don't do the kids' laundry anymore. And but really it was like self-serving because when I would tell them to clean their room, instead of separating clean stuff and folding it and putting away, everything would just go in the dirty laundry, and I would end up like, this is bullshit. I'm refolding clean clothes, totally wasting electricity, water, everything. Cleaning clean clothes. Yeah, and I was like, I'm done. Nope. I get that. And there's been plenty of mornings over Japan's like, if we're doing my laundry on a clean uniform, I was like, Well, wake up early tomorrow and you go do the laundry, put it on a quick cycle and get your stuff clean. Not my like, not my job. Not your problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Do you get emotionally involved then? Or you don't like do you feel bad for him in that instance? No. Your dirty clothes, you stink. I don't care. It's your fault. That's probably where I overstep because I have like an emotional attachment to them, like whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

I mean, Illy on the other hand could literally care less. She takes her dirty ass clothes and we'll just steam them and be like, they're good. Whatever. The smell of like permeating the hollow doesn't stink yet. She's not that eight, but I'm like, I'm like, what are you doing? Why aren't you dressed yet? She's like, I'm steaming my shirt. And I'm like, because it's been crinkled in a ball in your bed the last week because it's actually dirty and you haven't lost it. Yeah, which and I mean, yes, the chords I think are an important thing, but I don't know the discipline stuff with Joqual, you know, before dinner we like hold hands, but what are you grateful for? And if his day is training, he's like, I'm grateful I got to train today. I mean, like, how that and that was just in him? That was just in him. I mean, obviously, not when he's like little, but also when you think about it, he's been playing organized baseball for what four years now? Slate Brooks' first like organized sports team, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I mean, to this extent, right? Yeah, yeah. He was up in five football that was literally like every Sunday, they didn't really practice. So it's like a very big adjustment, in which I've been trying to like be patient and understand that. But like he was complaining about going to practice the other day, and I said to him, I was like, dude, like, first of all, you wanted this. And second of all, it's like the end of the season. Yeah, I was like, can you just change it so like I get to go to practice?

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, and and he still was kind of like Michael and I were talking about that the other day because I said I was like, Oh, I have to run to wherever. I don't even know. I think we had to run to the store, right? And he's like, and I do think about this, and it maybe and maybe changing it with everything that you do, as he's like, you know, you should just say, I get to go to the store right now, right? And I was like, you know what, you're right. Like, and I feel like I am, I I do look at things that way, and I and I try to instill that in the kids also. But in reality, like, even to be able to go food shopping, 100% people can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

So true. I mean, 100%. And I feel like that's just interesting. I feel like I was thinking about it. I'm like, I think we model these things that we want our kids, like Crystal and I do hard things and like push ourselves and we're both work out and do whatever, and I'm super grateful and like feel like aware of my words, and yet I'm like, I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Like, well, I think the positive thing to look at is truly they learn and see from example. So their kids, they're gonna be jerks sometimes and be like, I don't want to go to practice because it's hard and whatever, and that's not the fun stuff to do. The fun stuff is games, but also thinking like if you want to really be successful at something, you have to work at it. But Jock will have the conversation because he ran for student council, I guess. I guess it was student council government this week, whatever. And he wrote his essay, but then at dinner, Miss Erica texted me and she's like, Hey, let me know, Jock will need help with these debate questions. And I'm like, Wow, I don't know what those are. Yeah. And Jock was like, Oh yeah, can you read them to me? And I was like, Okay, well, you don't know them? Like, what are your answers? And we were like going through it at dinner, and he's like, Well, it doesn't even matter, no one else is running. I was like, Well, okay, fine. Maybe in reality it doesn't matter because you're the only one that's running. I said, But do you want to stand up there and look like a ding-dong when you don't know the answer to the question? Like, who cares? Don't just do the bare boom, like always do your always do your best. Yeah. Michael always says, like, how I how I do everything, how I do anything is how I do everything. Yeah. Granted, I think he's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Like, we'll be like, How'd you wash that dish? That's how his voice sounds like all you know, that's how it comes across. You'd be more to find with your impression dish wrapped, just it lined up. I'm like, oh my god, it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Like, I get it, my god. Right, totally. I guess I mean that is I don't know. It's fair. I think that I mean what Chris and I were saying is I was like, maybe we haven't driven home that there's a price for everything, right? It's like the price for like whatever health and like of body that you're proud is like putting in time the gym and the price, you know, the business is is work, but but I was like, I don't know that they get I don't know. I don't know actually what piece is missing, but I was like, there's something missing along this link because yeah, or maybe there's not, maybe it's just a transition. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

I think if you really wanted something, understanding the connection that practice is the price of admission. Is that's the only way you can get better? Because guess what? There's another kid somewhere else that's waking up early and not only going to practice, I mean grateful to be able to go to practice, he's also waking up in the morning and probably doing drills and doing workouts and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

100% and that's just life lessons though. Yeah, you think that's something that that's just in them or something that's instilled in them?

SPEAKER_02 11:51

I think also the boys, because I, you know, George and I were talking about it because you know, he's like, I think definitely more like jog more, get your shit together. You gotta train, you gotta do this. And the kids are normally with me. I'm like, well, George he does, like he gets up, he does like you know, you know, sometimes he doesn't do every single morning, but every day after school, he's in the back, like whether he's hitting a ball off a tea, like he's always doing something outside of practice every day. Really? And that's because he does it, not because you push him to do it. He just doesn't, yeah, not just doesn't yeah, but I think he also like loves it, it's not like he's going out there with the intention, like, I'm gonna get a hundred swings. Where I also almost feel like if he looked at it that way, like is I think like somehow sometimes tell you your intention matters. Yeah, he goes out and he just loves it and he wants to do it. But granted, it's still a hundred swings, so who cares? Right. And then all the other boys come over and they play wiffle ball, and then it's fun. Yeah, so it's like a combination of the two, but you know, he he he definitely is always like mom, like what's where's a tournament? When's the next perfect game tournament? When can I do that? Is asking for it and begging to play football. I mean, I think that the football thing will see what happens there because maybe once he starts practice, yeah. I also think sometimes I've overcompensated a little because of the divorce. That like I remember thinking it was like eight or nine years old. I'm like, you always hold the door open for a woman, you always carry bags, you always and like instilling that in him, and now I mean he does it now. He does it, he does it here, yeah. But maybe it's because there wasn't a dad in the house, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Maybe that's interesting too. I guess yeah, it's just an interesting thing when you raise, and I've been very aware of this since they were little. It's like we we we grew up very like in Ohio, very Midwestern, blue collar. My dad worked at General Motors, and so we were not raised with money, and so it was like even when the kids were small, I was like, what I don't want, like I want our upbringing, but more experiences, right? Like, how do you really instill grits if you don't necessarily have to? I don't know, we're not scrounging for anything. I mean, Chris like sold pictures and Chris sold everything. He sold sunglasses, he sold candy bars, he sold everything because he needed to make his own money. Like, my kids don't have, I mean, we don't just give them money, like it's not like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Do they have the chores? Like, do they have a strict list of chores that they have to do every week?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, they get an allowance, yeah, and they have chores. We do chores on Sunday. Um, it's not like written out, which maybe it could be, but they know what they're responsible for. Yeah, and then you know, they have to set the table and like clear off their own dishes, and it's expected that they help clean up, although you know, then it's yeah, asked for. And that's that's pretty much it though. I mean, when we lived in the rental, I had them like cleaning bathrooms, and yeah, except for Brooks, who would literally manipulate his way out of it every single time. But I was like, that kind of I was like really struggling. I made him do it one time, so I was like, you have to clean a bathroom, yeah. But I was also like, God, you're like kind of smart, like he would literally trade his brothers other things because he didn't want to do it and got some else to do it. I'm like, that also will serve you. Yeah, I agree. So I didn't want to like stomp on it, but I don't, I just don't know.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

I think everyone's view on what it on what grit and resilience looks like is different. Like I was saying, like I feel like the fact that Jack Mo goes out of his way to do something in the form of training every day, even if it's more like fun, like I see that as like okay, totally taking the initiative, versus like you know, Michael looks at it like he doesn't wake up every morning and like he thinks he should wake up every morning, do the exact same workout, he needs to do his push-ups, sit-ups, like it needs to be this routine because that's how he is. Yeah, yeah. And I I don't know if there's a right or a wrong, but from the sport from a sports standpoint, I just feel like if he's doing it and doing something extra, and he's grateful when he gets to go train, like this new trainer that he's with, it's it's like so grateful, so grateful I get to have to train today.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

That's amazing. And we were gonna actually, we were like planning all the stuff for like Brooks in the off season. Yeah, and then Chris told him like, I'm not doing any of that until you prove that like you really want it and you're all in. Because if you can't even do the basics, then you're not gonna show up at property, which is like free training, like you're not paying extra, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

We've had that conversation too, though, and in and in terms of schools also, because you know we're doing all these school tours, you're doing them too. And I I was like, Giacomo, like I've talked to your teachers, and unless you are gonna put in the most amount of work and do your absolute best and complete every no handing projects in late, no, like I'm not doing this, right? I'm not spending all this time doing tours, I'm not gonna drive you to a school that's 45 minutes away for you to half-ass it. Yeah, yeah, no way, and I think he gets it. Like, I've talked I talked to Josh and Josh is like, man, he's like he's like a different kid. I can't believe it. He's like a young man now, like he's so on top of it. He is like course correcting his friends and being like, Come on, guys, we gotta like get this project done. I'm like, all right, well, at least it's clicking, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

I mean, that is the thing, like Brooks gets his shit done when it comes to school. Like, I never have to be on him, I never have, like, he just gets his stuff done. And so I think I was expecting this like level of intensity with football, this like passion and excitement, and instead, it's like, ugh, I have to go to practice. And I'm like, oh, like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

I mean, why don't you just tell him, like, fine, listen, if you don't want to go to practice, that's okay, but you're not playing next season. I'm not doing this. Unless you're gonna do it and be committed, I'm not doing this. It takes how many hours early do you guys have to be there? Like, it's it's also takes a toll on the family. 100% serious commitment, so you can't travel to see his games, you can't do this because he has games or practice. Fair. And I think if they're not taking it seriously, then neither should you.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Well, Chris got to that point where he was like, I mean, actually, the next day he said it's like I'm not saying anything about practice. If Brooks wants me to say it in practice, he can come and ask me. Yeah, and so but I think you have to tell them that. I thought so too. So I said, I was like, I was like, How are you not gonna warn him? And so and I ended up saying, Are you going to practice? And he said yes. And I said, Then you need to go ask your dad to take you. And he said, Why? And I said, Because you told him yesterday you can't make me go. So, as far as dad's concerned, it's not his problem. Yeah, and what did he say? And he said, Okay, and so he went down and he asked Chris to take him, and I guess they had a conversation in the car. And I think to Brooks, it was just I didn't want to go to practice. It's not this bigger thing, it became this bigger thing for us because we're like, But I think telling your parents when you're 12, you can't make me be like, Oh, the hell I can't. 13, but 100% agree. And that's what Chris is like. I wouldn't, he's that's what he said. He's like, I would never have the bowls to say that to my parents. I would never either. Like, I was scared of my parents, but we've never parented from a fear-based way. I mean, Chris can get really tough, and I'm honestly surprised he doesn't want to have a little bit of fear of him, but clearly, like, not.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

And I don't know. That's funny. It's funny. I don't think my parents, my parents did a really good job where it wasn't that we were afraid. I was like, never wanted to disappoint them.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

I didn't want to disappoint my mine either, but honestly, to me, it was negative because I still kind of feel like I need to earn love. And so for me, it was like I had to. I was expected to be nice, nice and pretty and got good grades and like not misbehave. And that's how I earned love. Huh.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I think mine was like, the love is all there, don't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

But were you you weren't afraid? What were you afraid of? What was the consequence of like just feeling like you let them down? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

I remember, I mean, I got in big trouble one time. We got I got arrested. We were at a party, we were in high school, and it was like a huge party. And I never liked drinking. I'm not like a big drinker, but I think I had some drinks because I was convinced if I just hid under the water in the pool, the cops wouldn't see me. You were underwater. Hold your breath for like five minutes. My like mouth was like a burma straw.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

You're like drunk, you're like drowning yourself so you get arrested. But there was like 50 of us all unarrested.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

No, just at this party. This all this party in brigantine and this little island, and we all got arrested. And I just remember my parents was like, my thing was like I knew I was like, I want to play soccer, I want to go to like a division one school, I want to play soccer, I want, and my parents were like, you know, basically just this guilt trip of is this really what you think you're gonna get in a good school doing this? Is this what kind of light, you know? And I was like, oh my god. So now that I think back, and I might have to ask my mom, I know we had to write like an essay. Like we all have to go, we had to write an essay about the dangers of alcoholism. And I gotta ask my mom because I feel like my memory of it was at a soccer tournament and my mom maybe wrote it for me. Oh seriously.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

It was the soccer team to do it, not your money.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

No, no, like like the police. Oh, the police? Yeah, I think that we are old.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

That would never happen.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Oh, seriously. Like when we should like to ask you, like the whole story, but that's like my recollection that like, so we didn't get in trouble and nothing happened. We all like that's what everybody had to do.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Yeah, I think there were some kids that were bad and maybe that didn't get off with like the slap on the wrist, but like the young ones that they were just like, all right, this is what yeah, I kind of feel like no one read that as safe for me. Oh wow, because I think we had a soccer tournament I had to go to, I don't remember. So again, what's the lesson in that?

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I know the great resilience there, I don't know, but I I don't know. I mean, that's what I was trying to remind myself. I was like, okay, like I didn't want to do a lot of stuff, but I and you know, you turn out to be a successful human anyway. I know I just think it was disappointing and it made us think like oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Like maybe but here, here, listen in in in reality though, you can't make your kids do anything. Oh, I know. Like even when they were when they're babies, think about it. Like you can't make them eat, you can't make them fall asleep. Like you can't make your kids do anything. I know. You can threaten to beat them and then maybe they'll go, or you can threaten them with no iPads, and maybe they'll you can threaten, but you can't make them do anything.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, you can take stuff away. I mean, Ashton, who's seven, is very, very vocal about this. He will tell us this all the time. Well, you can't make me. And I hate it. It makes it triggers the fuck out of me.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I can't imagine Ashton triggering anyone. Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

I mean, he's so he's the sweetest thing. But no, he's like, and I'm like, Yes, you're right. Like, can I physically force you to whatever? Even get, I mean, even at this point, like get out of the car to go to school. Not really. But I was like, I can take away all your privileges. I can, you know, I can make your life pretty uncomfortable.

unknown 22:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

But I mean, it is true, but I also just I think that's what it is. Like, God, wow, you guys have some balls to be able to tell us. Like, you can't make me on my. I mean, think about it.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

What could the extreme be? Like, all right, here you go. Here's your one uniform. You have one uniform, you have to wash it every day. You get yourself ready. You don't want to go to school. Like, what do they do? Not see Fred. The problem is I don't think your kids would care if they didn't see French room anytime just hang out here. Within actually, they're like, You'd have to say no TV, no iPad, no pool, no take away all the billiards, take away all like anything that could be fun. I don't think you're at that point though.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

And then I slipped my wrist because they're making me crazy.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah. You'd have to do I would as much as we hate the little earpod things, you'd have to just put in Apple earpods, cover your hair over your ears, pretend like you just don't hear it, say whatever.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Oh my gosh. Ignore it. I'm not great at that. I get like emotionally involved and I don't need to.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Oh really?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah. I just let it play out.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

In all scenarios, just I mean, I I feel like the sibling thing, you know, there's only two. Yeah. So I don't have that like triangular dynamic. I have two. So one's either bothering the other one, one goes in the other one's room, the other one. I think but what what my wit's end is or where I get to is I just go, I just yell really loud. And then the mom's got mine. Mom's got it. And then I'm like, it's it, yeah. Or that conversation where I'm like, I will be dead one day. I'm like dead.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

I think I'm still getting that good conversation about my brother.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I will be dead and you will only have each other.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Then I feel bad because I'm like, that's the worst guilt trip ever. Our dog's licking my upper chair. Yes. I know. I don't, yeah. I actually try to stay out of it too for the most part. I'm like, if you, if once I get involved, it's my terms, right? So it's like you guys figured out because I feel like I always like you guys have so much practice on like conflict management and stuff, you know. Yeah, like there's always a potential conflict happening. Um, so I do try to stay out of that stuff, but it's just like actually, yeah, that I but it's what what's the goal here to get Brooks to want to train? No, I think really what we're worried about is like like, did we make your life so all of you so easy that you are not? But he's different at school.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

So my question is, is it just school super easy for him? So it doesn't matter and he doesn't care because I know he's you know gets good grades on honor society, like he does well in school. Yeah, which like if it's not hard for him, then the fact that he's getting A's kind of doesn't prove written resilience because he's not there's no there's no conflict. Maybe it's too easy.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

So when I don't know that for sure, that's yeah, that's an interesting question. Is it too easy? I don't know phrases to the AI AI. I know the AI cohort too. I totally I was like, you need to like go in and be like, I have to like take a placement test, and I need to be prepared for it. It's like they know that we're looking at high schools, and like that's well.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

The boys, I think anyone listening, the boys are in an AI program at school that they were selected for, and it was kids that are self-starters and did well last year. It's just a trial run. This is the first time they're ever doing it. It's definitely in like beta phase, that's for sure. Yeah, for sure. But I don't know if it's because the main teacher left or or not left, but they shifted some things. But you know, I'm taking Giacomo out. He told me he feels like he's not learning as much. Yeah, and I did not know that Mr. Liu, who's this incredible math teacher, was teaching this year. I thought he was only doing curriculum.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I said from the beginning I wanted Brooks to just do teach. I said you could do the AI cohort, but I wanted to stay with Mr. Liu. And they talked to him.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

They told me he was not teaching.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Oh, that's weird.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

I think maybe this summer would they had thought he was just doing curriculum because I know he was doing a lot of that. But I ran, I literally ran into him. I was like, Giacomo and I were talking about in the morning, and then I ran into Mr. Lew at Elementary, and he's like, Oh, I was just talking about Giacomo. Yeah, I was asking Miss Paulina how he's doing, but she didn't know because she's in elementary. And I told him what he said, and he was like, Send him back, please. He's like, he made like he did so well last year, he made so much progress. I think there's a lot of things he had to like read, like unteach and reteach. He's like, I didn't want him to lose that. And and and he had said he's like, you know, he's like, there's three kids that I, you know, he's like, I would wanted Brooks to come back, I wanted Giacomo to come back, and I forget the other, the third kid. He's like, they I think he like sees that they he can push them, yeah. I think they're missing that a lot. That's a fair point. Yeah, maybe it's time to do that too. I think, yeah, I think and that, and I like that he and he said he's like this isn't just about math, right? Like they were learning how to struggle, yeah. And and I and that's the approach.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

That is the approach. That is actually, I realized that. And you're I realized like when Ashton first went to this uh conscious discipline preschool when we first moved here, he was like four, it's like three or four years. Or was it what school? It was down in pine grass, this tiny little thing. It's called Growth Us Academy, it's so sweet, and it was all about conscious discipline. But anyway, as a parent, you were required to do their conscious discipline lessons. And I and the whole point of this is that I realized during that time that I was like, oh my god, I have been trying to take away their struggles, and my job is to equip them with the tools to get through the struggles, right? And so I feel like I've made progress since then, but now I'm like, shit, did I take away so many struggles? Yeah, that they don't know how to struggle. And at 13, is it too late for that?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

I don't think it's ever too late. I mean, we can't, you know, you can't just like give up because you think he's 13 and he's never struggled.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I won't give up, but Chris has a lot of struggling in life. Yeah. Chris had this theory when is it? Chris's brother is 12 years younger than him. And he said, he's like, I feel like up until the age of 12, you have a lot of influence over their lives, and then from 12 on, it their peers and whatever have more influence.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

I was reading something they were saying. It's not when they're in high school, a lot of it is yes, they're peers, but more of the influence is the parents of their peers. Like the houses that they spend time and they're out of the house so much. Is it a house where there's no parents there? Right. It you know, it's gotta be a whole thing for high school, right? That's the thing, too. That like choosing what kind of high schools these people go to. Like my friends, totally they go, they go down, they go to Palmer, and it's like everyone's like, oh, they have their houses down in Pinecrest, and then they have a house on Fisher Island for the weekend, and then they have, and you're like, not that that's bad, great, be successful, right? Multiple properties, but she's like, she was telling me, she's like, Oh, there's a party this weekend, there's like a hundred kids coming. I was like, We're the parents, right? She's like, Sometimes they're not home, sometimes they're just up in their bedroom. I was like, 100%. That's more than my wedding. These kids are having a party with a hundred people, it's just like sanctioned party on the weekend. How do you allow that as a parent when you're not liable? I mean, aren't you liable? That's what I would think. Yeah. I mean, it's still Miami though. We live in an alternate universe.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

No, we do, but when I was actually out in LA not that long ago, there were these moms with um older teenage boys, and they were saying their biggest issue or like thing that they're dealing with is consent. Because it's such a big deal. And they say, like, if well, sex, consent with sex, yes, because these boys I've heard multiple times these boys get kicked out of fucking school. Because the girl's like, I don't want to have sex with him. Yeah, because they say come on, yes. And apparently, but how they because what the boys start saying, Oh, we had sex, and she's like, Well, I didn't want it because she doesn't want to seem I don't know the details, but all I know is this is I've heard this from someone actually in Miami too. They know someone who their son went through this and got kicked out of school for the same thing. I don't know, this is such a thing corn the girl and say, Can we have sex? And she says yes, and then you do it. I don't know, but in California, apparently, if the girl's drinking alcohol immediately, she's not it's not consensual automatically. So that boy would be there'd be no sex ever if there was no alcohol in my symbol. Right? That's what I said. I was like, of course there's alcohol, like of course. So I don't know that I don't know if that's the same in Florida, but I was like, wow, they actually had they said that they brought a bunch of boys together and hired an expert to like tell them like how do you get consent? So what did they say? I don't know. I don't so anti-sorg. I don't know. They didn't feel like either, they weren't even in the thing. They're like, you know, they're like 16, 17, 18-year-old boys, and they're like they literally weren't even in the meeting because they were like, it was like a hired person because they're like that, you know, their kids don't want to talk to us necessarily about sex, yeah. And so they don't even know the answers. But like the one girl, um, my good friend Alyssa, her son is like 14 or 15, and he's like, Mom, like, what do I do? And she's like, I don't even know what to tell you to do to protect yourself, like it's that bad, but it's such an issue because the boys are automatically guilty, yeah. Of course, yeah, that's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

I know something we have to look forward to.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

So what what what did you and Chris decide? Like, what are changes?

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Well, I think that you know, we talked to Brooks. Um, I think first of all, I do appreciate like that the age that they're at because you can have real conversations with them, and and like we've said, like we've explained to him, like this is what we're afraid of, like you know, that we've made it too easy. And and I think that to Brooks, it was just I didn't want to go to practice that day. It's not this bigger thing, I'm not whatever, I'm not not committed. I think there's still some underlying things there, but I think that I I mean I do do know I have work to do in terms of like if they're capable of doing it, making them do it instead of doing it for them because sometimes it's just easier for me to do stuff and I don't make them do all the stuff that they have. Um, or it's like my love language of like acts of service, and it's like they don't necessarily look at it that way. So there's definitely work for me. Um do they cook for themselves here? They will. Maddox will a lot. Yeah, uh, Brooks will some, but Brooks, of course, too. Like there's this, you know, he's a practice every night, so it's like there's not even a lot of time he's home, and I usually have dinner like left out, and he'll just like reheat it. Yeah, but I think little things, you know, it's like that. And I don't know, we didn't come to like some big conclusion. Chris did say he felt better after we talked to him. He felt like like maybe it wasn't as big of a thing as we were, like we didn't fail as parents completely yet.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

But I mean that's an interesting point too, that like these little things happen that maybe don't mean as much as we think they do. Yeah, I don't think it's as much the issue that you don't want to go to practice, I think it's that like you can't make me pick. We were like, don't be a dick. Don't say that. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Like, yeah, of course we can't make you do anything, but like, come on, buddy. And he explained it. I guarantee Brooks had never thought about it this way, but Chris said that too. He's like, I am the one usually like Chris is the one that takes into practice. He's the one, like he's like, I don't play Pedale in the Nights because I'm gonna practice with you, like it's a sacrifice for me. Yes, and like he never, I'm sure, even thought about that, yeah. But I don't know, it's a work in progress. I still don't really know. I don't really still have the insight.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

And it's obviously like that's what we signed up for as parents, yes, and it's so different. Like Michael and I talk about a lot, like growing up, you know, sports was like township sports. Yeah, you drive down the street, you drop your kid off, you go home because everyone lived nearby, right? Right, and then you go pick them up later. Yeah, like he's like, I don't get it. You're gone for hours at a time driving around, you drive. I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. There's no baseball field in South Beach, like I have to drive. Totally, and it's like sometimes I feel like it's this double, you know, it's like double-edged sword, whatever that's saying is. So he's like, Oh, he needs to be committed, but then but you shouldn't be driving him. Like how is he supposed to be committed to what?

SPEAKER_00 34:29

No, it's so true. I mean, I yeah, it's always more complicated, you know? Like you're raising kids, there's not like a clear answer. It's like, I don't know, and then it was like, should we have punished him for not going to practice? Like, I don't know, we didn't.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Like, I didn't I think the conversation was had, yeah, and then I think if you think it's an issue, like boundaries need to be set. And I you know, I was talking to George about this, like he was getting frustrated. You know, the kids go back and forth, yeah. Like they have one set of uniforms for baseball. He's got you know, he brings the he hates bringing his bags to school when he goes from George's back home. It's a big baseball bag, like and it has a lot to think about. And yeah, George will get super frustrated, like he needs to get his shit together. He left his bag in my car. I'm like, George, I get it, but he's 12. Right. Would it did you forget to like could you have just said don't forget to grab your or grab your bag, your bag's in the back. Yeah, like instead of it turning into this, like he hasn't been responsible. Yeah, and it turned into this like whole argument, and I felt it. I mean, also because Jock was just I just feel like he's a good kid, it's like give him all it is for his bag, yeah. Like, what's the big deal? And it turned into this whole thing, and I could just tell his face in the back, like it just looked like he felt like I'm such a failure. I'm like, it's a baseball bag, it's okay, but maybe I'm wrong. Like, maybe George is right, maybe that is part of being responsible. But you have to teach him to be responsible. That's what I told him. I was like, it's not just all of a sudden they turn a certain age and they know how to be responsible and they know how to pack a bag and they know how to remember everything. Like, you have to get them there.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Well, that, and I think also like that's like a big term where like my husband is a very successful human being who can never find his keys and wallet, right? Like, I have not him air tags, he does not put their tags on, they're never on there, like he literally can never find, like, it's it's common, it's always right, and so like is that your responsible? Yeah, like sure, but does he have all of his other shit together? 100%. Yeah, so I don't know. That was my point. But see, I see the world always in gray, so like it's always so complicated to me. I think the truth is like like Brooks does his shit when he needs to do it in school. Does he need to be forced to do things that he doesn't want to do? Most likely. I think my kids have been able to have a voice a lot and they feel like they don't have to do things that they don't want to do, and that's our fault for not making them, right? And that's just a part of life. I tell them like I do shit every single day, all day long. I don't want to do, right? Like, I could just I'm just gonna lay on the couch one night and be like, I quit, you know, but I don't get and I don't, and I probably need to because like the yeah, you know, because that's what they do, they're just like, I don't want to, and I'm like, no one gives a shit if you want to, right? No one cares if I want to make dinner, they just want to be fed, you know. It's like so. I think that there's definitely like both are true, like you know, both are true.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

I mean, because at the end of the day, you want to raise competent, yes, courageous, yes, curious, yes, adults, yes, spirited, yeah and good humans. I think I had sent something to you, and it did I ever send to you? I took like I wrote it down. I like scratching in a notebook, wrote it down. I took a picture of each page because it's like this tiny little notebook, so it was like six pages. Did I ever send it to you? And it was it was I was listening to Jordan Peterson and he was doing an interview somewhere, and I'm gonna butcher it, and he does so much better. Maybe for next episode I'll read it. I'll have to find it. And he basically is like, you know, you can't if you want to you'll sacrifice their competency and courageous behavior on the altar of like safety or feeling safe if you raise your kids thinking that you're gonna keep them safe. And I think it applies to not just like safe as in you're not gonna get hurt, but like feeling safe and feeling coddled and feeling like someone's gonna always be taking care of you because then when they get out in the world, you have sacrificed what they need to survive as adults because you always made them comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

So it's interesting as my brain automatically has an issue with like comfortable and safety. Like to me, safety is like the basic, like I mean, I literally tell Ashton the safe things every single night, and is you are safe. And he literally can go to sleep. I mean, he like can, but he doesn't want to go to sleep, and so that's I tell him you're safe, right? But what but my thought was always like that's gonna become your internal dialogue of I am safe, I can handle this, right? So immediately I'm like having But how is he safe?

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Like, what's making him safe?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

I mean, in my worldview, and what he understands of what I teach him is God, and so no matter what happens, you are safe because you are a child of God. So if that means you're really safe, but I think it's more of an internal feeling of like I mean, for myself, I've struggled with anxiety, and it's you know, like not life altering, but like parts, and like I would have to tell myself that too. Like, I trust in the process of life, I'm safe. And what does that really mean? It's just that I can handle whatever comes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

But I think thinking that you can handle whatever comes is a form of like written resilience, yeah. So I think in the term he's talking about safety isn't quite how you you're defining it to them. Maybe I think this conversation was a little bit more about letting your kids go out and make mistakes and not always trying to fix things for them and letting them figure it out on their own and letting them climb up that slide backwards and letting them, you know, do things that maybe they break their arm, maybe they get their feelings hurt, maybe they you know fail class, maybe they you know letting them figure things out on their own versus you know going to the teacher and fixing helping fix a grade for them, help you know, but again, like I think there's a balance until the kids get older. Of you know, I told Joqua last year, I said, we can go in and talk to your teachers together if you want, right? If you don't want to, if you like you should do it alone, but if you feel like you need to have this conversation and I can go with you, but you're talking, right? You're gonna tell them what you want, you're gonna tell them you want you want an A in the class, and if you're not getting an A, what do you need to do? Because it's not my job anymore. No, that's fair. But letting it's not just throwing in the wolves, being like, time to figure it out on your own, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Right, yeah, like that. I feel like even when like Ashton had to tell Chris something, and he was like scared to tell him, right? And so it's like I will go with you and I will be with you, and you have to tell you, you have to do it, yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

You know, if you think about like our boys and eventually they're gonna go and find girlfriends and get married, and you know, they need to be strong and capable and being a man, and you know, I know we talk about this a lot, like this idea of you know, this toxic masculinity that I just like can't stay on that term sometimes. It's like there is like a softness and being feminine and that nurturing, like you want to keep the kids safe, and then on the flip side, you know, you Chris obviously parents the kids totally different than you do, and I think sometimes it's hard to see, like, you know, if George is like yelling at the kids and you're like, oh my god, oh my god, stop, it's so intense. But like they need that too, they need both sides of it.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

I told Chris that I was like, I'm so thankful, honestly, that I'm like have him to raise these boys with because yeah, like I don't think I'm well enough equipped, and I think that they need both sides.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yes, I agree. They need both, and I think I'm in a different situation because there isn't a man full-time in the house, and it's a different scenario. And I know people are like, it's it's fine, women can do it on their own. I'm like, yeah, we can, but I truly think that that's not really how it's meant to be. Yeah, like we're you're meant they're meant to have both. That duality is super important.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

No, I think so too. Especially having boys. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And then they yeah, they need like a strong male figure to be like this is what it is to be a man, and this is you know, I think that if I especially having three boys, if it was just me, I think that I would really really worry. Yeah, I think that's super important, and yeah, and what they do what they learn from me is very different, but I also think that they're at an age now where I can be like like I can talk to Brooks like you are a man, and I think that I enjoy that part of it because it's not like I have I don't know, it's a different phase.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

I think he I think he probably didn't think it's that big of a deal, but it kind of is a big deal, even though he's like, I still want to practice, I was tired that day. Okay, great, but to your point, you make dinner seven days a week, and you're tired when we do it a lot of the time. And the commitment to the team, the fact that he's been begging to play football, begging, and I and that's something where I would just say, Okay, Giacomo, you didn't go to practice that day. We like recouped, we thought about it, and here's here it is. And I think it's important. I don't know, maybe my mom or everyone who I was talking to about it, and they're like, everyone needs to be signed up the same agreement. So just spur this on him. Like, if he missed a practice, and then you guys are like, fuck it, we're done. We're gonna play it next year, that's it. And you'd be like, Well the thing that was part of the agreement, yeah. But saying, Okay, we need to make an agreement about this now. You're old enough to understand if you miss one more practice, we aren't doing this. If you're committed, we're committed as a family. This takes and and I hate being like, you know, we have to drive you, and this takes family time away. Because then maybe they're like, Oh, well, is it even worth that? Should I be doing this? Like, it shouldn't be that much pressure. But yeah, understanding though that that it's not just you that this is. Your family unit. It's not just you that this is that this affects. Yeah. But being like, all right, that's like whatever your scenario is, and whatever you guys decide, say this is what it is. I actually thought being like, okay, I signed up for that. If you sign up for that, great. We all agree and now we can move forward. But everyone has to understand the consequences before you dole out the consequences.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah, 100%. I kind of said that to Chris too. I was like, maybe it almost should be like that. Like, this is what we're signing up for, and you have to make an agreement. And he was like, fine, but that's not how real life works. You don't always know what you're getting into. Like when you start a business, you don't always know what you're getting into, and which is fair too, but I do think that at this age, it would be better for all of us to understand that we are committing to this season and what that means. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

But you don't know, and you learn every you know, things come up and you learn a lesson and you figure out how to deal with it. And like when you learn by all the mistakes you make. I remember when the kids were little, little, little babies, and my mom telling me, Sean, the minute you think you haven't figured out, they change. And it's rung true for 12 years, almost 13 years now.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Well, not only that, but they're all different, right? Solid. Like my kids are also different. So what I figure out with Brooks is not the same thing. You're not exactly. Well, they are all different.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

And you guys were different people and different parents with each one of them. Totally. So everybody's changing. It's not like this static entity. It's like everyone's galaxies are shifting, and you're somehow figuring out how no one collides in mid-air.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah, 100%. Which is why actually I realized I'm like, when it's like that's not fair, I'm like, I'm not even trying to make it there anymore. It's never gonna be fair. Never. Like, I'm not the same person as yeah, it's a little easier for me to have a boy and a girl. Yeah. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, nope, doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

You're two years older and you're a boy. Yeah. Deal with it. Totally. Or Ilya's like, I can't walk down the street by myself at night. Like, no, but John, I said he weighs 150 calves. Yeah, right. Good luck taking that guy. Nobody wants him. Cute little blondie. Nobody wants that kid. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

That's so cool. I know.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

All right.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Well, anyway, I don't know if we if we even got to the bottom of this. We don't have any answers anyway. So we got a conversation. No one has the answers. I mean, if you have the answers, let me know because we're all ears, but we have no we have no answers.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

There we go. A whole hour and we didn't solve anything.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

We're never gonna solve anything the next time either. If you're here because you're gonna solve your problems, you're listening to the wrong things. We're just here doing life with you. We're not here to tell you how to do it. Exactly. All right, until next time. Until next time. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We're really glad you're here. You can follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, and we're on social at Don't Tell the Kids with a bunch of underscores. Hang in there, mamas. See you next week.