Don't Tell the Kids

Don't Tell the Kids... We're Half-Baked Too

• Melanie Hunter & Siobhan Lee

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0:00 | 56:06

Okay mama, pour the coffee (or the wine, no judgment here) because this one's a ride. We're getting into ALL of it this week — like the fact that we're suddenly the moms holding the menu at arm's length and using our phones as little telescopes because nobody wants to admit they need readers yet. We're talking about the time a certain THC kombucha at a Miami get-together sent us straight into a wormhole, the shirtless WhatsApp profile pic from the gym coach that had us spiraling for two days, and that thing we ALL do where we fake sick to get out of plans (please tell me it's not just us).

We get into the real stuff too — the mental load that lives rent-free in our brains while our husbands are blissfully thinking about exactly nothing, the guilt and grace of single-mom seasons when there's no backup coming, and how to discipline kids when, let's be honest, we're not exactly the most disciplined humans ourselves. We talk about apologizing to our kids when we lose it, raising boys to actually be good men in a world that's a little confused about what that even means anymore, and why date night is non-negotiable.

Plus there's a pile of clothes named Timmy, a prank text involving a fake detective, and the time one of our husbands told the kids mom used to have a girlfriend (she did not). It's messy, it's honest, it's everything we'd tell you over coffee if the kids weren't around. Hit play and hang out with us. xo

SPEAKER_02

Need a break from your endless to-do list? Welcome to Don't Tell the Kids. We're two busy moms sharing the real, messy, funny conversations about life and motherhood. I'm Mel, mom of three, wellness nerd, an entrepreneur, figuring it out as I go.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm Siobhan, single mom of two, usually barefoot, and always saying yes to life. No advice, just honest conversations, on and off the mic. So grab your coffee, hide out in your car, and don't tell the kids.

SPEAKER_03

Like, oh my god. I thought this outfit was super cute. And Ilya, it has like a matching sweatshirt, also, and I put it on. I was like, I look like a toddler. It looked almost like a one matching. One? Yeah. We're only a onesie. A matching onesie outfit. Like kink floral. Oh, it's flowers. I actually thought it was cherries this whole time. So one needs glasses. I am actually starting to get to the point where I'm like at the restaurant and it's like move it slightly away. I find myself just looking at things like this. Oh, you do this too? One ally. Yeah, I'm like, one eye. Oh yeah. But I refuse to admit that I need glasses. And Mia's like, you need glasses. Right? No. Nope. No, I don't. My hands are fine. But I'm like Chris likes to make a telescope of hands and use that. And he says it works. We become our parents. My dad always does this. Like a, like a, like a oh, a cup, a cup in his ear. And I'm like, Dad, that doesn't work. Sure it does. Oh, yeah. Okay. Chris's mom was always using the the homemade telescope with her hands, and she would swear it worked. And we used to make fun of her. And now Chris does it and says it works. Oh, everything that's even looking at with a tele tele menu. Nobody can read the menu. Like these two are high as hell. She's holding it. That's on the menu. It's not just me, actually. I was with people the other day, and the girl took a picture of the menu with her phone and then she made it bigger. She zoomed it in. Yes. I was like, oh, that's actually way smarter than using your your hand. No, I have done that before, but not with menus when I'm trying to see like some really far away. Get my photo. I just do. Oh, that makes sense. That's like actually not your eyes being bad. That's just you being a perv and trying to like slit chilli hot guys at a football game, I think. Like I spot someone with a shirt off at 12 o'clock. Break that out. Is he worth it? Yeah. You take a photo and you're like, no, delete. Oh my gosh. Did I ever tell you at the time that I was I got like a WhatsApp message? And you know, when you get your WhatsApp messages or any message, it's like the little circle icon of the person's picture. Oh yeah. And you know, on WhatsApp, everyone can see, unless you like turn off your read receipts, you people can see whether you've seen their messages or not. Oh, I didn't know that. Um, yeah, which I have since turned it off. Because when you get like men that are like, Why didn't you write me back? Don't be creepy. Totally. I didn't have time. Right. Yes, you did at 5.04. Exactly. You saw it last night. Why did you write back? Gosh. And I thought I got crossed it. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah. Anyway, so I get a message one morning, and the little picture, all I can see is it's a guy with his shirt off and he's ripped like an eight-pack. And I'm like, oh no, what did I do last night? Because I went out and then I have four. I'm like, no, great. Who did I give my number to? Like, what happened last night? And I wouldn't open it all day. Like, I don't know, who is it? Who is it? Maybe it was like a day or two later. I finally go and I open it. It was Coach Alfredo. Oh no, I saw how Jock will left his water bike. What? It's just the shirtless gym teacher. My gosh, that's hilarious. I told his wife. I told, I told Claire. And I was like, can you tell Alfredo to change his profile picture, please? She's like, no, he's proud of it. I was gonna say, that man works hard, and he's got like, I mean, that's not a six-pack. That's like more muscles than I cartel you have. Like, that's the he's ripped. There was telling someone the other day, they're like, wait, so the ripped gym teacher is married to the cake lady? I love that you didn't chuck it for like a day or two. Yeah. I would have been on it first thing in the morning. I would have. I would have been like, okay, I have to know what I did and face it. You're like, well, you know, I'll just worry about that later. You know, what Michael always says, how I do, how I do anything is how I do everything. Because he's always like, wash the dishes properly. Yeah, do this, pro fold things properly. I'm like, oh, all right, I get it. But I really think it relates to everything in life. Like, I'm super non-confrontational. I'm a procrastinator, so I just don't open it. Kind of like when we were sitting here and you're scrolling Instagram about people, you're calling the story hall every Christ callers, and I'm like, okay, you have to stop that now. Yeah. Do your kids pick up this procrastination treat? Um, you know, it's funny. I think Jack Moe is the exact opposite. He never wants to be late. He's always on time. I think I've given him like a PTSD for being late. And then it'll be the same as me. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. So they'll either do it or it's the opposite. It is actually very funny that that is the way I think it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Mel Melissa and I were talking about you and Brooks the other day because uh I was like, Brooks wants to go hang out the boys. I was like, he's such a grandpa. And I was like, Well, I talked to Melanie about it. Melie's like, well, it's kind of how I am. She's like, I didn't want to go out and do anything either. She's like, yes, it's where he gets it from. It seriously is. I was like at this retreat, and they're like, That's girl, I knew one girl there. I went by myself, whenever. Anyway, she was like, Do you want to have dinner tonight? And I was like, Thank you so much. But no, well. It's like, no. So what did you do? Just go in your room and eat by yourself? Yeah, I was so happy. I was like, literally went and got some really bad chili. That part could have got better, but no, whatever. I went to my room by myself. It was lovely. I think I ha like I think sometimes I go and do things because I don't want to let the other person down and I'll do it. Yeah. But if I really don't want to do something, I just say my kids are sick. Like we had the best out. You're gonna be like, I was just I'm just honest. No, no, I just say my kids are sick. That's hilarious. You're gonna be like, I just you know, if I don't really want to do it, I just face it and tell them I'm not doing it. Just blame my children. That's not avoided at all. It's so bad. It just feels so bad. But I really shouldn't. Oh, I would just do whatever I want. Really growing-ass women, like no, it's not feeling bad. No. I mean, there's definitely times where like the kids are with George for the weekend, and people are like, oh, let's do this. I'm like, sorry, I have the kids. Yeah. But I just say I have the kids. I'm gonna start like sis talking to you. See, you're gonna drive now on Bindi, and I'm gonna be like, June, so I don't think I ever say I'm busy for you though. You're inspired. It's more like because I never asked how I can because I don't want to see you anyway. It's actually not even true. I do really like to be around people. I do. I just like oh, just like um it's an end at some point. I don't think let's just sleep over. I don't know. When we first moved here, we first in Pinecrest. And like it's the kids were at the school, and it we were definitely like the only Americans at the school, right? And like I think it's like this isn't being judgy or like stereotypical. Maybe it is being stereotypical, but I think Latinos just typically like to hang out for long periods of time, is what I'm learning. So we like enrich people. Yeah, so we had like a school party, and you know, first of all, everyone's an hour late, but second of all, like they never leave relief. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like it's just thank you for coming. And it's now time for you to pack your shit up and get out, you know? Like, I I just like how do you get them to leave? Well, thankfully, my my husband's like knows me well enough to know that I just disappear. I'll just go, I'll just leave when I'm done. Even when we were younger, Armisa, like parties late, and stuff. When I was done, I was just done. So then it's his responsibility to get everyone out of the house. Yeah, but I don't think he looks at it like that. He's like, Oh, there's a party going on. Like, yeah, that's like gonna miss it. It's like now Melanie's asleep. No party's really a display. Yeah, exactly. So I don't think he looks at it like a bird and he's just kind of like, okay. Oh my god, remember that one what was the party we had where you ate what did you eat? Oh gosh, I didn't eat anything. I drank, I drank drink from some park from the farmer's mushroom. It wasn't mushroom, it was THC, and I knew it had THC in it. Oh, it doesn't matter. But I was like, do those people are also the people that have the mushroom kombucha? Yeah, okay. Yeah, and so I could clearly we live in Miami. This is like, isn't that a funny thing? Oh my gosh, who's other farmers' markets? Seriously. I mean, maybe like LA, I'm sure, but for like 10 years, and now we're solid weed mushroom kombucha stand in New York. Oh, I believe that. Definitely not in Ohio, but in Cali, I'd say, yeah, yeah. So we can definitely get it there. Wait, go ahead. Sorry. No, no, it was like one of those Miami moments. Yeah, hell, we all know the same mushroom kombucha dealer. Totally. At the farmer's market, the farmer's market, yeah. So I was like, yeah, we whatever. We had a small get-together at our house, and uh, I was like, oh, I'm gonna drink that drink. It's not like I I think at that point actually, I was taking quite a bit of TC, to be honest. And so I was like, that nothing of it. And then I was in this conversation, and all of a sudden I was like, oh my god, I can't listen anymore. Like, I just really couldn't listen anymore. It was like somewhere else, and I was like, I have to go. So I didn't tell anyone. I snuck off and went into my room. Chris said I had a headache, and then you come wandering in. I snuggled it over the blanket and say, which was great. I felt like you and I were on the same uh wave, and I was like, not like an easy view about myself. I just couldn't be with everyone who was not like with me. Yeah, I couldn't. I don't know. I think we were in like a wormhole because then we finally let came down. Everyone was corporate. Oh totally. It's just like, where were you guys? I don't know. You're like, what the hell is it? So the same day. I think one way to get rid of people at your house. That's exactly you just disappear. I don't know how to do it. We had people over the other day, and like this one guy just like it just like didn't get the hint. I'm like, okay, we're gonna put on our kids' movie night now. They're like all cynical to the sofa and I was like, all right, well, now I think I'm gonna go walk the dog. Goes through uh still is there, just topping, topping, dogging, like hanging out on your couch. Yeah, I think in the kitchen, working area, maybe. I don't know. Like someone you know well, or just like someone that's in the area? No, so you couldn't be like in town visiting, not visiting us, they were staying somewhere else, but we were like and it was like a connection through Michael. Yeah. And my baby was looking at me like, this guy leave my responsibility. You come out of here, you get him out. You don't even live here. If he's looking at you to get someone to leave, like, dude, come on. So I'm like, you don't even live here. Why is this not even at my house? Oh my god. So what happened? Did he just eventually leave?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_01

Did Michael leave before him? He did not, actually. No.

SPEAKER_03

Which is definitely his MO. I was gonna say I could totally see him doing what I do. Oh yeah, yeah, he's out. Plus he gets up at like the ass cracked on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Anyway, how do we on this topic of uninvited guests and parties?

SPEAKER_03

I don't know, but I do know that when I take like um if I take like wee gummies to sleep, yeah. Like I'll take them, you know, whatever, like an hour beforehand. And so then I'm like still putting the kids to bed, which is totally fine, except that sometimes I'm like reading to Ashton and I'll be like, like if I've been reading for like five minutes, like five hours. Like no concept of time at all. Do you use that in sleep a lot? I go through periods.

SPEAKER_02

When my mom first got diagnosed with like like really like her really bad diagnosis, she's had breast cancer on and off for years, but like four years ago, she got diagnosed with metatastic breast cancer that like everywhere.

SPEAKER_03

Like she was reading the reports everywhere. And so at that point, like she was literally like planning her funeral. And so I found myself like really struggling. And so that's during that time I was taking them like daily. Yeah, and honestly, interestingly during the day though, too. Sometimes, and funny enough, though, I never felt I never felt high from them then. Really? It's like my nervous system needed them. It was so strange. Interesting. Other than that, I'd never experienced that before, but like I literally could take them and like fully function, and I would take them. But now um I'm back on them just for sleep. Yeah. And what brand do you use? Actually, that's so funny. Our friends, when uh when um uh Andrew was in town. Oh yeah, he got them at the farmer's market. From the same guy? The guy that the the obvious the oil droppers that's the guy he introduced me to that I get the the drops. Oh, you get drops from. Okay. It's probably the same. My mom had um it's brand cornbread. I think they're in Tennessee. They're all organic. Oh yeah, they're amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I started taking them last summer because when I was like, oh, Trevies were sleeping or sleep. Isn't it funny that a parents like my dad takes this stuff too? And I'm like, it's such an interesting thing that like when we were kids, it was like, don't do marijuana, it leads to crack cocaine. Oh yeah, you know, like I know you end up doing heroin, and now it's like, oh, your parents. So I remember my dad like stole all like my friend's weed once, and later when we were adults, admitted he just took it and smoked it. Oh, yeah. Well, it's funny because it's like the I I catch myself doing that with the kids sometimes, like stealing a weed. No, but like reprimanding them for things that I really don't care about. But you're like, all right, well, if I don't set some boundaries now, I feel like down the road it could get yeah, it's like bad. Yeah. It's hard. What's an example of that? Can you think of one? When Giacomo went to that concert the other night during what when oh, it was the championship football game, whatever that was, but there was some concert on the beach, and he was there the first night. It was like a whole weekend thing, and he was there the first night, and I let him go. Yeah. It was I think it was Calvin Harris or something because it was early, it was like still daylight out, and we live right there. So we went with a friend, but then I see videos the next day where I guess as the night got later and it was dark, and people were like climbing the scaffolding and like ripping through fences, and it got crazy. So the next night, I was like, no way, you're not going. And I didn't even think about it because the next day, George was like, I would have never even let him go to that. I can't believe you let him go. Like, that's where hard bad things happened to the place of so many people. And my I guess I didn't even think it's like my backyard. I didn't even like think about it. I get like that. And I can't so he was just no, it was like a free concert. Oh, it was a free concert. Oh, how cool for him. I know. But he didn't, I don't think he went in. They just went, you could hear it, you could see everything. He didn't have to like go in through the gates. I don't think they went in. And he was with neighborhood friends, yes. And then the next day he's like, Oh, I want to go. And I was like, Absolutely not. He's like, But why not? You let me go yesterday. I was like, Yeah, but I saw what happened later that night. He's like, Yeah, but it's early. I'm like, I get your rationale, Jaffa, but this is also like a different crowd, it's a different artist. Just no, it's getting dark. You're only with Lucas, who's you're twice his size, like you're not, it's not like you're with a bunch of older kids. You can't go. And then there's a ton of people at my house, and I went to go get pizza for everybody. And when I was at the pizza place, I don't Jake Jacko's at his Apple Watch on. I never really tracked it because he's never anywhere that I really, but I was like, Where is this kid?

SPEAKER_01

And I see on his watch, he's near the concert.

SPEAKER_03

So it wasn't like it was like a couple blocks away and near the beach. And I called him and I was like, You're it home right now. And he's like, What? I'm not at the concert. I'm like, I can see you are. He's like, No, we're just near it looking. I'm like, oh my god, like, do you did you not put two and two together that you're still at the concert? Right. And part of me is like, maybe it's his teenage brain. Maybe you really didn't get it. There's just things like that where I'm like, all right, did I really care that much? I cared that I, in my mind, I was like, I told you not to go and you went. But I didn't go. I'm like, okay. So my question would be, was George was his comment, did that affect how you felt about it? Oh, yeah, for sure. Because I think sometimes I like reprimand my kids because I feel like Chris is like gonna be mad at me for not, even though I might not care about the thing. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it was that I didn't let him do it because I didn't want George to be mad at me because he would never know. He's not here. I could just be like, he never went. Not that I would like lie to him like that, but it it was more like, oh, maybe he's right. Maybe this isn't a safe place for a 13-year-old. Yeah, it I just didn't even like think of it because it was right down the way, you know? Yeah. Um, last week I was thinking about you, and I was thinking how I was like, I have to give Siobon props because Chris was traveling all week, and I was about like a single mob. It's like, oh my god, you do this all the time. Like it's like I think it's just like the moments when you're tired and you're just like you wish someone would just pick up, pick it up for where you left off because you're just like, I'm fucking tired and done, and I can't do one more thing. But they're like, There's no backup, there's a backup coming. Like you have to do the things, even if you don't want to do the thing. I know it sometimes I think about it and like I think it's tricky because you know, Michael and I were together a whether he, you know, at one point we were in the apartment and he lived right next door, and now we're in the house and he lives in even though we're not together anymore. But we it's like even though we were together, it's like I in the moment when we were together, I think I didn't think about it as much because it was like right after I got in divorce. I think I it's like almost like I didn't want a a real relationship. I didn't want someone who was like a partner partner. So I think I can't I can't like not that I blame him, but for lack of a better word, I can't blame him for being like, oh, you weren't a good partner, you didn't help me pick up the kids, you didn't plan week, like it wasn't like, oh hey, what's up for the week? Oh, I'm traveling this week, all right. Yeah, do you need me to pick up the kids here? Like there was never any partnering planning or anything like that. Yeah, but I think it's like twofold. Like one, I never really asked. I'm sure you would have if I asked, but then on the other hand, it's that kind of that thing where you're like, I'm gonna have to ask. Just maybe ask me. Hey, something I can help with this week. But then the other, you never had kids, so it's like, how can I I don't know. I don't know if that's realistic, even though you have a husband. To expect them to ask what they can help with. Yeah. So how do you do the schedule then with Chris for the week? Because he takes the kids in the like certain time. I mean, I do get oh in what I sure, but I mean beginning of the year, I'm like, hey, can we sit down and figure this out? Like, where can you help out? And yeah, granted, Chris is very willing to take the kids. I know some moms just do, yeah, I know, both, but um, and so I'm super thankful that Chris is. But I feel like like if I was willing to just take them and pick them up, he would happily do that too. I mean I think he likes taking them, but but it's like, I don't know, I think I mean maybe that's not true. I guess Chris does take responsibility when it's like uh sports, like he would just take Brooks to practice, like without me asking. Like I feel like that's kind of like his department. But most of the things I feel like like Ashton goes to an angel warriors class. Yeah, and I think Chris may have taken him a couple times. He's been doing it for like two years, right? Like if I ask him to do it, he would, but he doesn't think to offer, and I don't expect him to. Yeah, I don't know. But I always feel like you guys, you know, you have your like annual kind of meeting getaway that you do. Yeah. I would imagine because he travels frequently and randomly, yeah, that you have meetings or at least communicate, like, oh hey, I'm away this week. Like, you know, I can't do this ride, this ride, this ride. Or if he's like, oh, I'm here, I'll get the boys this day, this day, like how does that even work? Well, we do have set days. So we have set days that we agree on the beginning of the school year, and we're like, this is how we're gonna do the schedule. And then of course, like when travel happens, you know, it falls on me, which is totally fine. And yeah, I mean that's a good point. And we do actually we have on our calendar Sunday meetings, like, I don't know, once or twice a month, but we almost never actually do it. But we will carve out the time to be like what's going on. Like we have a lot, especially when we know there's a lot coming up. So don't you guys do regular date nights on Saturday night? Yeah, right. We're really good about dating. Yeah, yeah. I like I was talking to someone about that the other day because I feel like Maggie and Glenn are really good about that too. And like they like carve out the time and the space to like just be alone, be together, like keep that relationship. And I think it's so lost.

SPEAKER_04

So lost.

SPEAKER_03

There's so many people that I have not, I mean, I know like my mom at school I was talking to, she her child is Ashton based, so eight, and she said that she's never left him with anyone besides her mother, who lives like in New York, so that she's never done a night away with her husband, and they like almost never do date nights. Like it was their anniversary, and he went out to dinner with them. And I was like, Please drop him off at my house. Like he had three boys. Lina, I swear, I know can bring a couple more, and it's really no big deal with her. All that is is more food. Like, yes. Actually, less work more food. I know to have someone to play with. 100%. So I was like, please like go to dinner with your husband. And she's like, no, our pride. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I I don't want to judge it. Like, whatever works for you, but like for me, like, we need that time. We need that time to reconnect and like to like actually talk about something other than our kids. And like, it's like it's like my favorite time. Do you find do you guys have like a rule that you don't talk about the kids while you're at dinner, or are you allowed to talk about them for 10 minutes and then not anymore? I think neither one of us like rules, to be honest. So we have zero zero rules when it comes to date night. I think uh sometimes we'll talk about the kids. Uh and sometimes I think, you know, someone there's like stuff that's bothering me, you know, and it's like I need to process it. And so I'll talk to him about it during date night. But but now, no rules. He can talk about work. I remember another actually one of his old business partners, like he used to never talk about business with his wife. And I was like, I can't imagine that. It's such a big part of your life. And like Chris actually says, like, he's been on podcast talking about like there's no like work-life balance. He's like, to me, it's all life. Yeah. And I think that's kind of it's like we're in a date night, we talk about whatever is like whatever's on our minds, you know. Yeah. But I do think, you know, he works from home. Yeah. It's not, you know, I feel like a typical nine to five. If a man is going to work at nine, yeah, he's commuting to work, he's in an office, they got like under probably fluorescent bulbs all day long in meetings, like on, on, on. Yeah. And then they get home, and whether they're working late, like I, you know, I I do feel you know, I'm sure men feel such financial pressure also. How like that idea of work life balance, especially with phones, yeah, where you could just be answering emails constantly all the time. Hold on. And that was something that was hard with with George and and he's always was in like the hotel restaurant business, which is open all the time. That's hard. Yeah. Because you're never off. Never off never off. It I don't think he knew how to be off. That's a whole other issue though. Yeah. Because I have a really good friend and her husband works a lot, and I think he's just somewhat addicted to work. Yeah. Which, you know, is fine. That's your thing. There's way worse things to be addicted to. But I think regardless of what position he's been in, he always just works a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And he probably will always be that way, I think so. Also, yeah. I think we talked about this on a previous podcast where I was listening to this man speak about I forget what it what it was the topic, but him saying that like women we have such more like room for growth and change throughout our lives, but men typically stay the same. Like remember, we talked about in this. Like, if this guy's always been a workaholic, no work-life balance, he will always be that way, no matter what job he has. Yeah. Total things changing. Unless he decides to change, right? But I think that a lot of times a man's identity is work. And so outside of that, if if the man, you know, is really like focused on work and works a lot of hours, you're in work and then you go from work to home and you immediately put on like your husband and dad hat, that there's not a lot of time for like self-exploration and figuring out who you are or what you want to be doing or how you want to be thinking or how you want to be showing up, right? Which without those things, I think there's never going to be any change or growth or, you know, because you're just in it. Yeah. But it's interesting because I I feel like the idea of like who you are when you take away, you know, your job, your kids, like everything that you're like, if someone's like, Oh, who are you? And you're like, oh, well, I, you know, I'm a nutritionist, I'm a mother. I'm like, you're like, no, no, who are like that answer, who are you? Which is such like a like esoteric question you even try to answer. But I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be like hours you could try to figure, figure that out and whittle it down. And sometimes I'm like, all right, well, dad's get this rap where you're like, oh, well, he works too hard. And he, you know, he but on the other side of it is I feel like men who are providers and that is like their way to protect and be there for their family, why is that so frowned upon? I get it if they're not at home ever and they're ignoring their whites, ignoring their kids, like probably not the best because you're missing out on the best parts of life. But to want to provide so much for the people you love. Yeah, I don't I wouldn't say it's not okay. And it brings up all these other things though. When you're talking about it, it's always a question for me of like what's actually going on. Like, is he is he working all the time because he's avoidant of being home with the family? Or is he working all the time because like deep inside he's trying to prove something that he needs to prove? Or or is he just working all the time because he loves to create? Like that's a different energy, right? It's like if you actually love your job, you love to create and you're you're providing for your family, and like that feels different. Yeah. So I don't know. I think there's layers. I think it's not there's no one size fits all, or it's not as simple as black is white, black and white is right or wrong, right? So I don't know. But I do what you're saying. But I think it's interesting for men. I feel like as a woman, I think we need a man on the podcast. We do. I thought it'd be really fun to have Chris on. Chris, I'd love to be on. You'd have Michael on, but yeah. Michael, but like hitting it to their head because it's so different than how we think. Well, 100%. And I think as a woman though, I think like we wear like a million hats, right? And there's always like like a million things going on in our brain, which is why we can't say I'm one topic for flex. Well, I can't text and walk at the same time. It's really right. And so there's always like, you know, do I need to make groceries? Like, who needs to be where? Like, what is where you having for dinner? And like, what do I need to do for work? And did I get snacked? Did I have the frosted chicken that I need to make for dinner after I just pack a little snack? Yes, and did I bring their football stuff and did whatever? And like, like, I don't think that a man's brain works at all like that, right? Do you think that Chris, like during the day at all while he's working, is like thinking about what activities the kids have after school and where they need to go? Zero thought. Not at all. Zero thought of dinner, zero thought of like I mean, unless he's like taking the kids, and then it would literally just be like, okay, at this time I have to leave. Yeah. And that's pretty much I think he'd be like, what else does there to think about? Yeah, like how 20 minutes to school. Exactly. It's all I need to know. A hundred percent. And he actually he thinks like I my mother-in-law called me last night, or funny enough, and I was away, and so she was here like helping Chris with the kids. Yeah, she was like basically just saying, Chris gets like, Chris gets bitchy, he gets me. Like of the two of us, he's the bitchier one of us. And so she was just like, just like talking, talking through that. And anyway, and she was just saying how she's like, he she's like, I just want to help. But she's like, he keeps telling them overcomplicating it. Like, and and I was like, Oh my gosh, I mean too. Like Chris is always like, you just overcomplicate it unnecessarily. And I'm like, but I don't mean to overcomplicate it, right? It's just like talking, like, you know, I feel like when you and I are in a conversation, it kind of goes this way, not what and like Chris is very like black and white. It's like this is what needs to be done, this is whatever, and it's done at end of end of conversation, like move on, right? Yeah. And I'm like, but how will he feel about this? You know, it's like very messy. I feel like men's brains are way less messy. And he's like, land the plane. Did we talk about that recently? Why does that? I don't know where I just heard this recently of like, you know, our brains are like going, going. And like, okay, what do you think about this? And you're just like talking it out. Uh and someone's like, sometimes I have to tell my wife just to land the plane. It's great. Just land the plane. I'm like, all right, yeah, I get it. That's not many girlfriends though, because like I'll land the plane, but in my head, I'm like, I'm not done. Yeah, still still have more to work this, like we're a lot of gas left in this. So going back to the original, the part that I sometimes struggle with more than just like the logistics of it, yeah, is like the parenting aspect. Whereas if there's not a dad in the house every day, normal figure, obviously they have a dad and they go to their dad's house. Right. But like that balance of discipline and two two things. Discipline and them being disciplined, right? Like two, like the discipline of like waking up, they do the chores they have. And the the thing is, that's not like really me, though. Like I'm not the best staying on top of my chores. Sometimes my clothes will end up at the end of the week, and there is a mound of clothes that are clean. I just tried them on and threw them in a pile so I didn't hang them back up. And then I walk in Ilya's room, I'm like, oh, all right, well, that's yes, that's why her room looks like that too. Like I'm not the model named the best behavior. But, you know, and I was I was talking to Michael about that because I'm like, Michael, like you oh you you have these expectations as like a man, a masculine, disciplined, organized person that you think I should be instilling in my kids. But it's not me. I'm not like that. Totally. So how do I model that without changing who I am? Which I guess I I could try really hard and I don't know. But I feel like there's like a balance. Like you kind of I wouldn't be the kind of person I am that's like the the things you do love about my personality, like the the lightness, the love, the happiness, the joy. Totally being like free-spirited doesn't really coincide with someone that has a super organized closet. Anyway, okay. So don't change and and I think that the other part of it is it's like, is it nice to have an organized closet? Yeah, but that doesn't make you a successful, successful in life. That doesn't make you a lovely human, that doesn't make you really anything except for organized, right? And so, like, is that really something that matters? Like I do think that there's something to like the space you live in and how it impacts you mentally. Like I missed an argument about that recently, where I'm like, all right, well, I'm a little procrastinate, like I'm a little bit procrastinator, I can definitely be scatterbrained. And it's like, if I fix my living space to feel more calm and organized, would that part change? Or is it that way because I'm like a kid first? What comes first? The chicken and the egg. I don't know. But I actually love that because you could literally out that to your kids, exact same thing you just said, which I think the most beautiful thing about like parenting nowadays is that I feel like we parent as such humans, right? It's like my parents were very much like, this is right, this is wrong, you can do what I say. And I feel like more like, I'm like a messy human trying to figure it out. So it's that, and let's use it as an experiment. Like we're gonna try, yeah, or not try, we're going to keep our house a certain way for 30 days, and we're gonna see what happens and how it feels. And that they're old enough now, anyway, where it could be like it's probably like a 30-day calendar countdown. Like, how many days can we keep this house? And have a prize at the end. And maybe at the end, like you, I don't even know. Have a few bite make a messy again. I don't ask a watermelon bite or something. Then you fell at home again. But do you think that kids that really understand the idea, like you're saying, like, oh, I'm parenting and I'm a messy human too, and I'm still growing? Like, do I don't know. Do you think kids can do really because I feel like sometimes I look at my parents and I still expect them to be an act the way they were when they were my parents and 20 years ago. Yeah. And like watching them get older and watching them shift and giving them like that grace of realizing, okay, they're still changing too. But I'm an adult, yeah. And I have a hard time processing that. So like a child looking at us as parents and thinking, oh, mommy and daddy are are still, you know, they're not fully baked yet either. You know, like do they get that? I don't know. I'm half I think my kids know I'm half baked. Literally. Um, I mean, probably not really. And I do, but I do think this. I remember like growing up, like your parents are like everything, right? They're like your idols, and like you think like the way they do everything is perfect. And then you get older and you see how other people do things and you realize there's other ways to do things. And I think for me, there was like this massive, like, like almost like oh shit moment where I'm like, oh, like my parents aren't actually these like superheroes, they're humans, right? And so my hope is that by continuing to talk about that as they're growing up, that they have less of that to just see me as a human and like, you know, and Chris the same way. Like we tell them, like, we don't we don't necessarily know, we're doing the best we can or making the best decisions we know how. Yeah. And like none of this is like, you know, written down. Like nobody knows what we're really doing. So I you and Chris, or you can answer it separ separately if the answers are different. If you feel like you did something while you were, you know, lost your cool or you know, yeah, how whatever have something you feel like, oh, I should apologize to the kids. 100%. Does Chris do it also? He does. He will very much apologize. I think the difference is probably like uh I would I would over apologize for a lot of things, yeah, which is an issue I probably have in general. And Chris maybe would apologize less, but he the big things he 100%, like if he really like loses his temper and like yowls or like shows up differently than he wants to hear 100% apologize. Like it later you f reflect on it, you're like, Oh, I wish I had a letter. Yes, totally, and he will. Do you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would imagine. For sure. Yeah. Which I feel like that is maybe a way to show them, like, all right, we know we're not perfect. Totally. This isn't, you know, be all end all what the parents say goes, and yeah, if I freaked out and yelled at you for no reason because I was late or because I was upset about something else. Right. Because of me. Really? Yeah. Because of my own stuff. Yeah, not really even generally about whatever they're doing. No, never. Yeah. What's just the icing on the cake, right? Yeah. But you usually then the only time I get all worked up and with the kids sometimes is if we're late leaving the house, which really the reason we're late is usually me. So I don't know how I fix that little conundrum. Like I'm like, all right, kids, we gotta go. Ten minutes and no fail. One of them would be like, You're still in your bath promo. Like, I got my clothes on in two seconds.

SPEAKER_01

It's like, couldn't get yourself ready.

SPEAKER_03

You know, you're waiting with backpacks on outside.

SPEAKER_01

I'll be right there. Don't worry about what I'll do.

SPEAKER_03

They're so smart though, right? It's like they know. Like they know. But but it is like this thing where like, all right, kids, but you realize if I have to tell you what you need to do to get ready. Because if if I don't tell you 14 times, bring your cleats. Right. That just takes away from me being able to go get dressed. Fair. And in reality, if I just woke up, you know, earlier, then I could be fully ready before that is just so much. Well, it's also I always I I thought it was interesting. Years ago, I realized I was like, like my kids would have temper tantrums, and I think it was like such a big deal. And then I realized I was like, gosh, but like adults have temper tantrums too. We just show up differently, but we yell and we like and like how can we expect our kids to regulate themselves better than we regulate ourselves? Like we can't, right? And so the same thing, we can't actually expect our kids to do better than us in general life. And and so that's all just part of being messy, right? It's like you, like, I mean, I get it too. But you're like, I'm trying, I'm trying and I'm doing my best. And maybe I could tell you to fail, but I'm gonna keep trying. And one of these days, you're gonna be a time, right? One of these days, um my room is not gonna have a pile of those sitting there. But it did make me feel better when my my partner who's who's not married, doesn't have kids, and she's like, Oh, it's good. Everyone has one. It's called Timmy. And I was like, Wait, what? She's like, Yeah, we all have it. It's it's a pile of clothes that you've tried on and they didn't look good. So you threw them in a pile, you didn't hang them back up yet. It's ongoing. Timmy, Timmy, Sam's Timmy. I love that. I love that. I feel like you don't have a Timmy. I occasionally have a Timmy, but I do share a closet with my husband, which is different. We used to have different closets, and I felt very much like I could be much messier. Now I'm very aware of the fact that his closet's very organized, and so I try my best to keep mine.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's a nice thing to do. Yeah. Being a good partner. I you know, trash. I know I used to just like throw everything in the closet.

SPEAKER_03

And it would be like piled like knee high. I mean, the room's clean. What are you talking about? By the way, when you said your partner, and then you said a girl, I was like, you have like a lesbian partner and a room. Sometimes sometimes I was like, oh, I didn't know anything about this.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, on occasion, no, yeah, business partner.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I think it's an interesting thing though, not having yeah, a man in the house for like the discipline part of it. Because Chris recently said that I think he actually saw it on Instagram. I don't know what the source was. Maybe it wasn't good, maybe it was a study. Let's go with that. Yeah. But he said how like, you know, mothers are supposed to be nurturing. Like, that's just RNA, that's what we comes naturally. Tell me this right, and like, and the father is supposed to He said it really actually well because he told the boys this. He's like, you know, my job is to make sure that you guys are able to be men and in like a way that you are proud of yourselves for showing up as men. And and so, you know, it's just a different energy. And so it without both in the home, it does become tricky because like it's it's much harder for me. It comes across totally different anyway. I can discipline the kids, but when Chris does it and Chris says things, it's just different. It just drives home differently, the kids show up differently, like everyone feels it differently. And so to be able to wear both of those hats as a mom is like you're never really able to do it the same way. No, and I also feel like they uh take it differently. How do they whenever like I feel like what if it will be coming from a mom to them it would feel s so different?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I feel like even when I hear sometimes like a dad, like like my heart as like a mom is like, oh my, but the kids are phased by it. They're like, oh, I didn't care. I'm like, oh, I know it was just me. I just thought it was too harsh because like as that kind of like loving creature, like hearing, but it it's uh it doesn't matter. It's okay. I was like, oh, that was just me that thought that was really, really rude and really unlike unnecessarily mean or angry. Yeah. I have a I have a part of me that hates to be yelled at. I totally like Shribble and hates to be yelled at. And so Chris will sometimes say things to the boys, and sometimes they'll like either talk back or make snarky comments, and I'm like, wow, like they're so brave. I'm like they're scared. Like, and not like like Chris is not abusive. Like, I'd be scared, but I see him. I get like all nervous and anxious and like shut my mouth, and the boys are like sassy, and I'm like, wow, guessing you, you know, you're like ready to go, boys. I know, especially how Algebrax out. We're like, wow, he's like really unfazed by Chris's like I mean, not always for sure. Yeah, there are times where like Chris dries the home and like it affects him, but like 75% of the time, I'm like, wow. And it's surprising that Brooks, the oldest one, is like that. Because I feel like my yeah, I'm sure you see them like on Instagram all the time where it's like the oldest reaction, the middle of the youngest. Yeah. And I feel like they're so on point. And I mean, I don't have any domain, I only have two, I don't have all three, but like usually the oldest is like you yell at them. And I mean, if Jocka and Ilya are getting in trouble or something, I'm yelling at both of them. Yeah, I mean, immediately Joqua looks so shook, so upset. I end up wearing yelled at, and Ilya is just looking at me like rolling her eyes, like, oh my god, rape done yet. I could totally see that. And like, be like, all right, you know, whatever. I think the middle child's definitely right. Like Maddox would be kind of like, like, fuck all of you. I yeah. Brooks has like a rule follower part of him, but he's definitely like got this other part where he's kind of like But always or now because they're becoming teenagers. Because I see like the teenager thing. It's actually so interesting because when you say that, I was thinking about it. I was like, it's almost hard to not know them for who they are now. I know, right? It's like really think about like who were they when they were whatever age, like because they're always changing and evolving, and like you know you meet them where they are right now. So the house like a forget. But I think he's gotten more, probably more competent, and as he's grown into himself, he's he's like been more able to stand his own. But I and I and again, like I think that's an important part of them growing up and growing into who they are. Like if you have any kids or you know, think of how many, you know, years ago or whatever, where it's like, you don't talk back to me, you're not allowed to be, you're not and if they can't like test who they are in the home where they know they'll always be love, like yeah, they can't be assholes. Right. They can't because they can't be assholes in real life either. Totally. But like letting them figure this out in a place where they're always be loved and accepted. Totally. I agree. It's important, yeah. I mean, it's interesting actually. Last time like Chris had a serious sit-down like a couple weeks ago with the bo uh boys, because I was just super frustrated. I'm like, Ashton's telling me he's not going to school, or Brooks is telling what he's doing, he's not going to this or practice, and like I was just like mad or whatever it was. And so Chris had like a Sit down and um and Ashton interestingly like brought his chair right next to me and held my hand. He gets very uncomfortable, and Kristen's like very intense. But at the end, he's like, Can I ask a question? Oh my god, he is so cute, I can't stand it. So cute. And Chris is like, of course. And he's like, can we talk about chores? Because I would like to change them. And I was like, good for him, right? Yeah. It's like he was uncomfortable enough to like want to be secure, and but he also was secure enough to be like, I I have something I need to talk about, also. Right. What was the change? What did he want to make? He doesn't want to do tours all on Sunday because it feels like too much, even though his chores take like zero minutes. Like he wanted to do them throughout the week. And funny enough, Chris was like, Yeah, we can try that. And he's like, Do you boys want to do the same? And they're like, No. And so Ashton has done zero of it. So I think it was just like the negotiation when he wanted it's probably like, sweet, I won that one. So do you say it's amazing. Yeah. He's yeah, he's done zero watering of the plants, which he was gonna do every day. But you know, I think regardless, it's good to be able to have a conversation because I agree with you. I think that it's really good. And like we are their safe place, right? And so to feel loved and safe, regardless of how messy and ugly and how loud you get is important. Yeah. And that's yeah, that's when they learn how to test boundaries and figure out who they are, and you know, all of the stuff that makes it hard to parent but amazing to grow. Yeah, yeah. But it it's I feel like with Giacomo, especially, uh like trying to talk to him about like what it means to be a man, things you need to do, being just like little things now, like how to be like chivalry, like what that means. Because I I unfortunately feel like I don't know. It's like nothing feminism is bad.

SPEAKER_01

Feminism sounds great.

SPEAKER_03

You know I'm gonna fucking say it's good, but you say feminism? Yeah, whatever life's bad by any means. But I think it's like been so misconstrued. Instead of being like, oh, we have the choice, yeah. We should be allowed to work if we want to work, but it's also okay if you want to be a stay-at-home mom. Like those but I feel like it's been so misconstrued in the in saying, well, if you are a stay-at-home mom, then that's worth less than if you're in the workforce. And I think in turn, you know, it's like then how does the family get balanced? Like, what does it mean to be a man and provide and and what is that role? Yeah. How how do we want our boys to show up for their future girlfriends, wives, yeah, etc.? Totally. You know, everything I've I had a friend of mine, her daughter went on a date. They're in high school, went on a date with this guy, and she goes to a school uh in South Miami, and all you know, all not our boyfriends, but just guy friends at everything. Um, I guess every time they go out, they always pay for the girls. Like friends, well, anytime the boys always just said pay for the girls.

SPEAKER_02

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

And she went on a date with this guy, and the guy Damon offered to like pay for her yogurt or whatever it was, and now she came back. She's like, I don't know what just happened. Like, that was so weird. And we're like, well, yeah, might not be the best choice for you, especially if you're like, hey, this is how it and not that money is all any all of it, obviously. I don't know about some money and say it is a gesture. I think it's a gesture and and and like almost I feel like it's become that it's not okay, right, to let a man care for you and take care of you, right? Like why? I don't know, because I don't agree with it either. I think that I think to your point it's all about choice. Like, yes, women should have equal choices and and and at the end of the day, something always has to give. So if if the woman's working full time, the man's working full-time, and you have children, like something has to give. Someone has to be there, and whether that's hired, you know, and there's no wrong way to form a family. It's just what are your priorities? And I think to your point, it's all about choice. Like, how do you know? And it's like, you know, it's it's it's not like everyone has this choice either, right? Or it's just like economy and and yeah, but a guy, you know what, back in the 40s, 50s, a man could be like the post delivery man, he was a postman.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And they could buy a home, the wife would stay home with the kids. So true. And that's not the case anymore, yeah. That's very that's very good point. So if T B and Bale, I mean, think of where we live. Oh, it's crazy. I mean, you go to lunch, you get a salad and a juice, it's fifty dollars. Yeah, seriously. You can drop a hundred bucks like blinking. So it's like, you know, I I don't know. I mean it I mean, I don't think there's any answer at all. But to that point, like if that nuclear family dynamic is broken up by either divorce or because the parents work and maybe you have a nanny at home where the kids go to daycare or whatever the scenario is, like it's disrupted that idea of what the masculine and feminine.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I feel like this is probably a much longer in-depth conversation at some point because it's worth the conversation of, you know, I don't want to say there's like normal. Normal isn't the right word. No. But there is men are men, they are built differently. Women are women, we are built differently. And I don't think there's one right answer to everything, but like I feel like a lot of times I like I'm forced to like live in my masculine energy because I am financially supporting the kids too. And it's a lot like the stage where I'm like, why do I have to figure out how much billing I have to do this month to clients to be able to like, you know, get all the money together to pay bills or whatever. I don't want that job. Totally all. Can I get that one off? I don't mind the doing of the work. No, I get it. But it's like the managing of the household on top of it. Yeah. I'm just like, oh my goodness. Like there's so much twitch going on up there. I mean, that is a whole nother conversation, but but first of all, you're, you know, I have three boys, and I had my three boys, your son, and another boy in my car, and they, you know, like killed a bag of snacks, which may think that's why I brought them. And your son was the only one, including my own my own boys, who was like, Melanie, do you want me to get the garbage out of the car? Oh, he is so sweet. He really is. So the point is, whatever you're doing, and I know that like I'm have zero doubt that it's harder because you have to wear multiple hats. And and thankfully their dad is in their life, but just not as a nuclear family in the same house. But he's the one who actually shows up. He's the one who carries the grocery bags, yeah. The one who offers to crit up the car, or he's the piece of one. And and so I don't know, but it's almost like it's not right or wrong. Yes, like whatever you're doing or you guys are doing collectively is working, and that's most important, right? Because it's like N of two. To your own little experiment with your own little family, and you figure it out. It is a little experiment. It is, all right? And I'm like, my fucking kids, they left all their shit in the car. Like, what am I hearing wrong? But on this on the flip side, I mean there's plenty of times Dracula gets out of the car and it's like orange peel still sitting here. I think it it's that same idea of when they're home and they feel safe, and maybe they're not as like totally put together and gentlemanly and well behave. So like if we do it outside of the house, and that's how they treat other people, at least I know that they know that that's how they should be having it's so true. And yeah, and to that point, maybe my kids would do that at somebody else's house. Yeah, that's what you hope. And yeah. But um, I was thinking when you're talking about the the uh date, uh, we had seen somewhere, it probably was on social media too, but this mom, this this family decided they were gonna give their son like an X amount of money, and he was gonna take out the mom on a date. Oh my god, that's so cute. Right. And I was like, our kids aren't old enough to drive yet, but I told we've already talked about it. And I was like, I want to do this at some point where I don't know how much money you get in Miami because you can't do shit around here. Like that was serious, right? But like you get a hundred dollars and you get to plan a date. Yeah, and even if I drive, you get to do whatever, but it's your money to spend. And I was like, Oh, I love that experiment because then they get to actually like live it and own. Actually, that's a great idea. I remember one time I Giacomo and I went out on like a date together. We go on like a little date, and I think Michael gave him cash before he went. I didn't know Giacomo had money, you know, and it was like the cutest thing. Like he was so excited to pay for the bill, even though like it wasn't his money or anything, but it was super adorable. But I love that your experiments are like, let's go out on a date and see, let the boys become men. And my experiment that I sent you this morning was let's text the boys that if a detective calls, if a detective I think it's so funny. It was a text message that you're supposed to send your kid, both of them, or all three of them, which our kids don't have phones or anything, but so on their i had or whatever. If a police officer comes to the house, this makes me like die laughing. If a police officer c text them, if a detective or police officer comes to the house, just tell them I was home all night. Also, don't tell your dad I send. I know I saw this and I was like, I will do it, but I will crack. They'll be like freaking out, and I'll be like, it's a joke. You'll keep it up for like days. I know you. Like, I'm I'm such a stucker. As soon as they like, get no, you have to do it while you're still out. Oh God, they're gonna have a friend. I can't do that. I'm a part of time. That's the point. I can't do that.

SPEAKER_01

It's so funny. Oh, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03

I have a friend of mine who said she would tell her kids that they weren't going to great adventure and then bring them to the dentist. Oh my god, horrible worst mom ever. Serious. She thought it was hilarious. She did. But her kids are great. That's just her and her kids like mom. Yeah, like they say, that's like the shit we're gonna have therapy for. Well. All right, so you do the experiment and you can report back. I'm going to. I'll let you know. Maybe there's of course. Joppa's gonna have a million questions. Oh, for sure. And Ilya's probably just gonna be like, Should be like, oh, I'll ride or die. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, she will. She likes mom's the word. Yeah, whatever you did. Don't worry. I will tell Mikey, we'll tell Dan, we'll tell anybody. You all, yep, we're good. Giacomo's gonna like call me. Going to a concert tonight. I'm gonna do it tonight. You really? Yeah. Oh my god, you're so brave. I'm not that brave. He helped to report back. I feel bad. I'm gonna end up going, Giacomo.

unknown

Don't wrap me up.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you're like, it's a plant. Fine. Such a sucker. Oh god, I can't wait. It's gonna be so good. So funny. Those kids play tricks on me all the time. Are you kidding me? Yeah, what happened the other day? George and Giacomo played some trick on me. I totally believed it. Oh my gosh, I wish I could remember. George told Giacomo the other day that before he met me, I was a lesbian. No. And I had a girlfriend. Oh, well, we just said you did. So now it's still. I was like, Giacomo, you believed? So he's like, I don't know. If I was like George, it's weird. Oh no. Oh my gosh. He goes a hilarious. What? What did you tell? Where did they where did the days even come up? Like they don't it plants like a seed of delta. I know. Like Giacomo, if if you if he saw you and I like holding a power would be like, oh, I knew it. It's true. Oh my gosh. Alright, I have to pee, so we gotta wrap this up. That's a classic. That should just be our outro to every podcast. I mean, it's almost on now. Yeah, we have to pee. I can only hold my pee for like an hour. Don't bring out a trampoline. On that note, I can't even come on trampoline when I don't have to pee and I'll have to pee. All right. Well, until next time. Until then. Bye.

SPEAKER_02

For hanging out with us today. We're really glad you're here. You can follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, and we're on social at Don't Tell the Kids with a bunch of underscores. Hang in there, mamas. See you next week.