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Don't Tell the Kids
Two moms. Real life. Zero filters.
The conversations we probably shouldn’t say out loud, but do anyway.
Motherhood, identity, marriage, careers, and everything in between.
No advice. No politics. Just honesty, and the chaos that comes with it.
Don't Tell the Kids
Don't tell the kids... grandma used to scream
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This episode, just like every other one, gets real. Siobhan and Mel sat down to talk about their moms — what they taught us about being women, what they didn't, and all the messy in-between stuff that we're still untangling as we raise our own kids.
We get into it: the houses we grew up in (one filled with baked goods and zero visible conflict, the other with a mom who was amazing 20 days out of the month and losing it the other 10). The grandparents who somehow morphed into completely different people than the parents we remember. The Kim Kardashian conversation Mel had to have with her boys on the family room floor (you'll want to hear how that went). The Disney movies that ruined us. The generational baggage we're actively choosing not to pass down.
We talk about how our moms gave us everything they knew how to give — and how some of us are saying "no thanks" to the parts that don't fit anymore. About being the first in the lineage to stop stuffing it all down. About yelling at our kids when we're tired and feeling terrible about it. About the tiny moments — a kid offering to finish the dishes, a teacher's email, a daughter wiping drool off a baby's chin — that remind us we might actually be doing okay.
If you've ever looked at your own mother and thought I love you AND I'm doing this differently, this one's for you.
Need a break from your endless to-do list? Welcome to Don't Tell the Kids. We're two busy moms sharing the real, messy, funny conversations about life and motherhood. I'm Mel, mom of three, wellness nerd, an entrepreneur, figuring it out as I go.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Siobhan, single mom of two, usually barefoot, and always saying yes to life. No advice, just honest conversations on and off the mic. So grab your coffee, hide out in your car, and don't tell the kids.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the nonsense show. We're not here. What they started? Okay, we will actually jump to it. Okay, so today's question is question. Topic. What did your mom teach you, intentionally or not, about womanhood and how has that shaped you? Oh, you're asking me? Well, it's actually a question for both of us. So I'm not putting you on the pressure if you want me to start at that. I feel like there's so many aspects to that question. I would like to know your mom.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I met her, yeah, but I don't know her now her.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_01I mean, obviously, there's like so many things, but I will say one thing that I truly remember from growing up, and it wasn't so much like a lesson or you know, her sitting us down and saying, Don't forget to do this in life, or don't our house, and I feel like I mean maybe I just feel this way because it's my home. You can tell me if you feel that way. I feel like no matter where we've lived, we've moved a lot. My home growing up was like you walked in, it was just like a family lips here. Like it was so just like filled with love, and just you know, was never super fancy or really, you know, oh, everything's gonna be super clean and organized and whatever. It would, but you walked in and you could just feel even now, whenever we go home, it just feels so like homey and loving, and you can just tell that like people that care about each other live there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's beautiful, right? So my husband's kind of anal about sleeping in its place. Do you still do it a little bit? So do you get that feel when you come here or does it feel stuffy because we're super organized?
SPEAKER_01I don't know if it's like an organized thing. I think our house is also like small and like quaint and cozy. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like your house feels like love because there's always like some baked goods out, and which is cute because I Maddox told me that is your mom or Chris's mom? Your mom. Oh, my mom loves to bake, she's so good at it. And he's and it's funny that that he actually said to me when we were here once. Were you traveling? I don't know why we were here. And there were muffins. I was like, What kind of muffins are these? And they were just out on the counter. He's like, Well, I don't really know, but they're pretty good. There's always baked goods out at my house. My grandmother loves to bake too, and she used to do it also. So like it's cute that he uh has that like knowledge.
SPEAKER_00That's super sweet. Yeah, that's interesting. That's actually really uh awesome, although I do such a disgrace to my mother. Well, I was here for the buckeyes, I know. My mom makes beautiful cakes and like homemade bread, and like, oh my gosh, all these things, and I make horrible cakes. Yeah, I make boxed muffins half the time. We were here for the Ohio State Notre Dame game. Or yeah, we were here for watching football, and I made buckeyes for Ohio State game, and they were so ugly that Brooks took a picture of them and sent them to my mom, who's who responded save us. Who she responded with yikes, like like literally, she's like it tasted good then. That's what I said. I was like, I don't care, right? But my mom would have had them perfect, they would have been beautiful and like yeah, but anyway, that's a that's a sweet thing about your mom. Yeah, yeah. The house definitely was always filled with love. Did she teach you about womanhood in a direct or non-direct way?
SPEAKER_01That's a big question. I mean, I don't really think there was ever like no indirect. And I feel like I don't really know if it was like womanhood. I feel like I always saw my mom as a mom. Yeah. And it wasn't necessarily being a woman, it was being like a mom. Like I don't think I ever saw her like go out. You know, maybe maybe my parents had like gone to like a wedding or something together, or never, I don't remember them ever being on like date nights or getting dressed to go out with her friends or anything. No, I mean, and again, maybe it's just like my memory, because I apparently, according to my brother and sister, have a very skewed memory of a childhood. I grew up in like a cloud bubble filled with love, and my brother and sister are like, that's not shame to me. How did you grow up? Not that they're saying it was bad, they're like, I definitely yelled at us. Like, no, they never yelled ever. Oh, that's so funny. You never saw it ever.
SPEAKER_00That's like, yeah, you're you put on your glasses of rosy colored life of the Shabon. I'm off. I have rosy colored glasses too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I do. And it and and I I I I don't ever remember ever hearing my parents fight, ever. Well, I don't think once. But it's funny looking back and sometimes thinking about my relationships. I also don't think I ever saw them like be loving and kissing or passionate or anything. So it was a lot, it was just kind of like in the middle. They love each other, they're like best friends, but I don't I I don't remember seeing that as like a role, like something to look up to.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting though, you never saw them fight, and I wonder you hate conflicts, right? So actually, was it because you never saw her being modeling and you never saw a model to you?
SPEAKER_01I probably didn't know how to handle the conflict nor how to heal from that conflict. Yeah. How do you apologize? How do you say you're sorry? How do people make up after totally inviting? Which, you know, I feel like I try to be right off the motherhood thing, but it's all part of it. In being divorced and, you know, relationships now and thinking of like whatever partner that I'd introduce to the kids or anything like that. You know, I I I've said to myself recently, like, I will never be in one unless it is a one that I want my kids to model. Yeah. Like a man that Jacob will say, Oh, that's how you're a husband. That's how you take care of your family. Or Ilya, like, that's the kind of husband that I want. Actually, I have the choice now. I don't have to be in one, 100%.
SPEAKER_00Or I just don't have one, or you don't have one. But that actually is interesting because what you said earlier aligns with that is you don't remember your mom like inherently saying something, and I actually don't really either. But you learn, I think as a kid, you learn more by what you see. Oh, yeah, right? And so how your mom shows up or how your dad shows up is what's most important, more important than probably what they say to do or what it's supposed to be, you know. That's such an interesting thing because it just went full circle from your childhood to what you would hope would be a model for your children. I don't know, it's interesting because I think that that's so true. Like, you see your mom as your mom no matter what. Like to our kids, we are just mom, right? I don't even know. Yeah, I don't know. That's an interesting thought though.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's the only time that I've got to dress up to go out, and some people are like, you can't wear that.
unknownIt's not that bad.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, even like I'll wear like a crop top, and Ashley's like pull it down. Oh my god. Like, and he's like, I you shouldn't be showing your belly. And I'm like, you sound like my parents. Oh my god, poor Giacomo.
SPEAKER_01I went with the other friends over a while back, and I was going out though. I don't know how it ended up being like a party at my house, but I was leaving. Like I had plans, and there's all these people at my house, and a dad, one of the dad friends, or a dad of one of Ilya's friends showed up to get her. And I don't, I don't know why that's immediately what Giacomo went to, but he was like, Mom, I think your date is here. And I was like, What? What are you talking about? He's like, because he didn't know the dad. I was like, What Ilya, he's like, I don't know, there's a guy here, and he just knocked on the door. And he was like, I guess because I was getting dressed to go out. I was like, Jack Mo's First Dad! I'm like, oh, that's so funny. But I'm so I thought the fact that he thought that was like that was his first instinct. I thought it was so funny. Like, never dates come to the house.
SPEAKER_00You kidding me? But that's so interesting, that that must be in his like realm of thinking of like, oh, you know, I know that's such so interesting. We're like laughing, definitely laughing about that one. But again, we digress, yeah, of course. I think like when I think about my mom, I don't know that she inherently like it. I don't think she sat down and was like really like told me a lot about being a woman per se. But I do think I learned so much just watching her, right? And and you learn like things that you want to take with you and parts that you want to keep with you, and parts that you don't, right? It's like, and I think that what she did model was always like warmth and love and laughter and like um joy, honestly. Um which I love. And like the conversations I have with my kids are all so uncomfortable. It's like my mom had very little of those, so I think that it was uncomfortable for her too, and she didn't know how to talk about like sex and periods to like great extent, right? So that's probably why you told your kids about the Kardashian porn video.
SPEAKER_01Why I told them everything, why I talk too much. I'm like, this is actually a really funny story you should tell because I think it is modeling where you're like, my mom wouldn't talk to me about it. She told me to go talk, and you say you said she told you to talk to your aunt.
SPEAKER_00She said, if you ever get in trouble, please go to your aunt Karen. She has three sisters, and at the time I was kind of like, what? But I get it, like she just couldn't, right? And I think that I was yeah, and now you're extremely open with your kids. I'm very open with my kids. Oh my god. I'm like, okay, so not long ago. My boys love this. My boys are 13, 11, and we have a seven-year-old who's seemed to be who's knows way too much.
SPEAKER_01Because mommy has no filter.
SPEAKER_00I don't even say it in front of them it's a brother. But he okay, this he was not in the room, or this conversation. So we're sitting on the floor in our family room. I think I was playing with the dog, and they're sitting on the couch, and I don't remember which one of them asked me, but they were like, How did Kim Kardashian get famous? And I'm like, Oh god. So I was like, I don't know. And Brooks is like, Yeah, you do. And I was like, Yeah, you're right. I just don't know how to say it too. I was like, I'm just I don't even know how to tell you, like, it's just so uncomfortable. I was like, I don't know. And they were like, come on, and I'm like, oh god, here we go. It makes me anxious thinking about it again. I'm like, oh like all this like stuff. I'm like, oh my god, and of course, Chris is never around, but it's like I don't know how he escapes all of that, but it's always me. And so I'm like, okay, well, I was like, Kim was dating a guy. I was like, I don't know, he was famous. Maybe he, I was like, I think he was a musician, apparently not. I don't know, I don't know what he was either, anyway. And I was like, and they filmed themselves having sex, and so and somehow that leaves, and that was the start of it. And I was like, I don't know how you go from that to like building an empire. Like most of the time, that would give you a negative name as a female, especially, but that's what happened.
SPEAKER_01And they were like, I'd love that I see you later. Yeah, you could have just said she was Paris Hill's best friend. You're like, Yeah, didn't pick it up, that never crossed my mind. But the interesting thing is that's not the truth, that's not why she really became famous. That is so you being so honest and truthful with your kids that you did. You told the truth. John asked me the other day what a MILF was. That was an interesting concept. That's good. And you told him. I was like, ah, well, well, after I told him, he went, that's disgusting.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it is. I mean, I think that that that actually is though. I told my kids like years ago, it's like if like I will tell you the truth. Yeah, my blogs are gonna be annoying. So if you have questions, like I want you to learn from me, don't go searching on the internet, there's weird shit there. Like, like, just come to me, I will give you a real answer. And I really have held to that because I really believe in open lines of communication, and I think that we live in Miami and they're gonna be in all sorts of situations, and like there's just scary shit, like there's just a lot, right? And so, yeah, I I they took the exact opposite approach as my mother, interestingly. But I also was raised in Ohio in kind of a bubble. Like, I was raised in a bubble, and like our kids are not gonna have that that luxury, no, and not at all, you know, it is it is what it is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, we definitely yeah, no, we grew up in a bubble, too.
SPEAKER_00We didn't have TV.
SPEAKER_01You don't have TV, we had no TV. I think I could eventually we got it way later down the road, maybe I was in high school or something. But I remember, I mean, we lived far out in farm town, New Jersey, but it was something that like our neighbors across the street, because we live, it was like nobody lived around, but then there's like a corner and there was a couple, like one, two, three, four people, and then like your properties are behind you. And I would go to my neighbor's house to go sneak over there and watch TV because cable was on their side of the street, but not our side of the street. So we had no we had no TV. And I would sneak over their house to watch, like you can't do that on television, remember that show gosh, and like double there and all those. Oh gosh, it's like takes you way back. Yeah, so we definitely grew up in a bubble, and you know, I grew up my parents were like, and then it, you know, it's going back to your mom, and maybe it has nothing to do with motherhood or excuse me, womanhood, but I think it has to be with being a mother, but she's a hundred percent the reason that I've had all natural childbirths, and that we, you know, are more about holistic healing and yeah, natural foods. My parents had a health food co-op growing up. They were way ahead of the time. Oh my gosh, I mean, total, like you wouldn't even think you were in New Jersey, like hippie town. I mean, I remember this truck would pull up to our house, it would have like all the you know, bulk order food, all the families would be there, the kids are barefoot, no shirts, like full farm town when you were getting like vegetables off of that. It was more like dried goods, like grains and beans and like packaged stuff, but it was all organic that like you couldn't get anywhere.
SPEAKER_00When you it's like when you talk about a truck rolling up with food, what I think of is it was like Schwans or Schwins or whatever. It was like literally packaged frozen food that we used to buy sometimes. Like my pet my dad like cooked mostly. It was like not our norm, but anyway, that's what I think of. Like, definitely not a farm truck rolling up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was like it was called um oh goodness, I'll think of it. The name of it is I think it's still around because when we were lived in New Jersey for a bit, my sister and I started ordering it and we started like a dry, like organic dried goods thing at this farmer's market. Yeah, what was it called?
SPEAKER_00Do you mother similar to how your mother mothered you?
SPEAKER_01I think I it's funny because apparently my memory of it has all been made up in my head according to my brother and my sister, so I don't really know. Well, according to your memory, because that's all we have to go. According to my memory, I think the outpouring of like endless love and affection. Yes. Um I think maybe I'm harder on my kids. Oh really? But again, I feel like I don't remember those times my parents like yelling at us and being mean, which so I'm sure it happened. Totally. But I d you know, I feel like the fact that like I make my kids do their laundry and they have to wash all the dishes and that those things, but but we did have chores. Do you remember when you clean the bathroom having to clean the bathroom?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And kind of liking it, and I don't know why. I think it like looked clean. I chose that chore because after you did it, it like looked cleaner. Versus different chores, you're like, that doesn't look like I did anything. Yeah, that chore is no fun. I will say my mom worked so hard and she was really sick and she had Lyme disease. And it was like before they were diagnosing people with Lyme, even because she got she was pregnant with my sister. My sister's two years older than me. So my sister is 45 now, maybe. I don't know. Um, yeah, 45. And they're like, You have this, you have that, you're gonna die in six months, you're gonna lose your baby. Like, she was really, really sick.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's terrible.
SPEAKER_01So, but you know, looking back now that we're you know, everyone's like my best friend now that we're older and adults, like you know, I remember her telling me, like, you know, she would work nights. My dad would work through the day, my mom would work all night. So there was always somebody home. Like, they didn't want us to have to have a nanny. They like, and my mom, my dad dropped out of school to take care of my mom because she was so sick. Wow, yeah. And like college, not not high school, but um, you know, I don't ever remember this being young, obviously, because I feel like you hide a lot of these hardships from your kids. But her saying that she would literally have worked all night, would get home at you know 5 a.m., wouldn't go back to bed, start getting all of us ready for school, bring us to school, and she's like, Sometimes I was so tired I couldn't even drive home, I would just sleep in the parking lot.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I know, like, but you don't see that part, right? When you're a kid, you just see, oh mom's up and breakfast is ready, and you don't realize it. Like, I never realized how tired she was and how exhausting it it it it it it was for her, and then she would pick you guys up from school, so she would just sleep while you guys were at school, yeah, yeah. And then she would pick us up from school, bring us home, and then you know, because my dad would be at work during the day, and then yeah, then she would go to work again. I know that that was I know, but like you never and I guess they didn't have much overlap either, which is also where I don't see them fighting because they're never right.
SPEAKER_00And that's so true, that's so interesting, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But and and there's a there was a good balance though, like you know, obviously we're talking about motherhood, but like my dad also was like a chaperone for every trip, and he was Santa every year when I was you know at school, like just up as Santa, so they were both super involved. But I think because he was like just around more during the day, maybe, and I don't know, I don't know why he had that was the role that he took on because I'm the one that's always on the chaperones and doing all that, so it's funny, it's funny that that was the role. But it's interesting though, I was talking to my sister about this the other day, and maybe it's just as our parents get older, like I and again, maybe my memory's crazy, but I sometimes struggle with how my parents are grandparents versus how we were raised. Like, if I think of how we were raised, and it was this is like ever giving river of love and kindness, and not that my mom's not loving and kind with the kids, but I think I always had this memory. So silly because I never had a grandfather. Oh, and I always have this memory, I don't know if you remember it, in Cinderella, when the king is dreaming about having grandkids. Oh my god, no, I don't know. And he's jumping on the bed, playing with these like little grandkids, and he's so happy and jolly, and all he wanted was grandkids. Oh, funny. And I always had this vision like that's what grandparents do, that's what they are. And I they're just gonna give my the kids everything, and it's oh, you want some Oreos? Yes, you want this? Yeah, like give them everything I'll never give them. Right, but instead, for some reason, my parents have this thing where they like my dad always wants to teach the kids a lesson. Or there's kind of like rules at my mom's house, like way more than I remember growing up. And part of me's like, What? What is happening here? Like, this is not what I envisioned at all. I I'm the strict one. You guys are the ones supposed to secretly give them candy, take them to the movies at midnight, like do all the bad things.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, that's so funny.
SPEAKER_01Yes, all day long.
SPEAKER_00But it's so funny because like my mother-in-law would do all those things, get candy, buy them presents all the time. And you and it drives you crazy. And we like tell her you can't, you can't do that. And granted, she lived with us for like seven years, so we're like, you can't bring them home something every day. Yeah, and so now it's a little bit different since she doesn't live with us because there's a little bit more, you know, it's not as frequent. The frequency is yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's funny, honestly. I wrote a paper when I was like in middle school or high school about how damaging Disney movies are. And this is the proof in the pudding, right? It's like you see this like grand thing where like the grandpa's run, you know, like that's not real life, you know. And it you would think that this is what it's supposed to look like. It's like your prince charming and he sweeps you off your feet. Like, oh yeah, what a fucking joke.
SPEAKER_01I cried for days when I found out you couldn't sit on the cloud like Mary Poppins does. Days! It's horrifying! Oh my god, that's hilarious. It's all I ever wanted to do was sit on the cloud. Okay, I wasn't quite as delusional as you. But I think it was just more like Prince Charlie sucks like the patriarchy. Like, I was like this.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, that's that's another level of delusion, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it's like, wait, wait, this is all a bunch of bullshit. Like, there's no there's no horse and carriage, no one's showing up with their sword, like protecting me, and like I'm out here on my own. It's not real. Oh my god, but anyway, it's interesting anyway, like the expectations that we put on other people sometimes, yeah. We want it to look like. And I think that uh I think there's an inherent part of that that happens no matter what. Like you're when you're a kid, your parents are everything, what they say is everything. You don't know that there's other ways that even live life, and then you grow up and you're like, Oh, wait, like, why do they do this and why do that? And you you have to almost go through that shedding to become who you are. Yeah, and in the process, you're kind of microjudging your parents, you know? Yeah, and so then you find those things triggering, which is really our own work, not that not our parents' shit, it's our own work. Shit, right? But I think it's a real a good realization to realize like our kids are gonna have to go through the same process, yeah, and then everything we did is gonna suck.
SPEAKER_01And it's also a little unfair as to our parents because we sit here and talk about like how we change and how we're trying our best and how you learn these lessons through life, but like you never see your parents that way. You just think, yeah, so true. You know, it's like my call, you know, I talked to my mom the other day and and I in in for a little bit, and then I told called my sister after, and it was she's like, you know, they're just they're getting older, and it's like it just feel the conversations feel so different that I have with her now versus even like two years ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's totally fair. Yeah, and though how interesting, because you know, it's it's hard to put yourself in their shoes, but I'm sure like for them, there's probably a transition too, like, and to not feel guilty that maybe you need more rest or more time alone, or you don't want to take all the kids all the time because you're tired, or I don't know, but like to to age, and you know, I'm sure they're having their own experience of that too, and maybe they find what we're doing super triggering. I'm sure, because we parent weird. I'm sure I I I know like my dad. Last time he was here, he's like, I'm just old enough to put himself to bed. Yeah, he is, right? But I'm still gonna put him to bed. Like, I choose to do that, and it, and yes, it disrupts our evening and whatever we're doing, but like I'm still gonna do that.
SPEAKER_01I just feel like it'd be interesting to like look at generation to generation as it as it has gone through history. How different parenting and the world has changed from generation to generation. Like, are the gaps always same incrementally? Or is it like, oh, this generation generation was pretty similar, this one and this one a little bit more, and then then the last few is it like bigger and bigger? The gaps getting wider. I don't I don't know. You know, uh, one of my favorite movies, even whether it's Christmas or non-Christmas time, is Miracle on 34th Street. And it's funny in that movie, I'm just thinking, like, they're like, okay, honey, go to bed, and they're like, you know, five, and they're like, Okay, that's what they thought.
SPEAKER_00That's what I remember. I remember it was like, go to bed, brush your teeth, and I will check on you. And I got a kiss and a hug later. He was like, Go, go do it. Yeah, now I say go brush your teeth, and then he's like, You have to come with me. I don't remember how. And I think that there's like probably there's truth in both, right? Like my parents probably are like, God, this attachment parenting is a little bit much, you know? And I'm like, gosh, just leaving them to put themselves in bed is a little bit of much. Like they're both true, right? They both can be true, and I don't think either way is wrong, it's just different.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, I no, I I completely agree. But my my dad does it a lot where he always wants to be like teaching the kids a lesson. I'm like, yeah, that's exhausting. And sometimes I don't know if it's because I'm divorced and he feels like, oh, this guy's not there, and now but I'm like, dad, you see the kids in the summer more frequently because we're up there, but it's not gonna happen last forever because you know kids get older at sports and this. But I'm like, besides that, you see them like three times a year. Maybe. Is that how you want to spend the time with them? Just telling them what they're doing wrong. Have you ever asked him why he does it?
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I've told him stop a million, we've had huge fights about it. But why is it what's his why?
SPEAKER_01He literally can't help himself. I have no idea. Okay, because I thought maybe it was like maybe that's like he's never been like, Oh, I feel like because you don't have a husband that I can help what no.
SPEAKER_00More like he wants to like impart wisdom before he passes or something. Like that there's no like thought behind it.
SPEAKER_01My dad, you know, when Instagram started, because you probably could never get a handle like this anymore because there's none left. We started an Instagram page, and his name is May I Make a Suggestion. Oh that is what we started his Instagram under. Because another, it is just him. That is every single thing that you do. He'd be like, may I make a suggestion? And then I'll like tell you how to do something else. And the frustrating thing is usually you're like, damn it, that's actually better. He's got a point.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, but that actually is interesting because really that's always been him then.
SPEAKER_01It's always been him, but I always feel like there's a difference in like when we were little, my mom would be like, Oh my god, every time I'm on a vacation, you doubted me because we're gonna learn something. Like, God forbid, we went to just like whatever, plant beach, or like you know, a vacation on the beach. No, it was like we're museums and we gotta go to this, and there's learning, and what she's like, it's was exhausting, yeah. So we've always been like, you know, we would do Latin flashcards every night. Like my dad has always been like about just well-rounded knowledge and always learning and curious, which is wonderful. Like, that's how I want my kids to be like lifelong learners. Like when I moved to Italy, he's like, I'm gonna learn Italian, and he did it. Wow, that's what I was like, okay. And but it's but it's it's not that that bothers me. Like, there's times of the summer I've gone outside and he's like sitting with the kids and he's teaching them how you can like pollinate zucchini. Oh, right. Like things like that. I'm like, yes, impart wisdom. But it's more of like he almost gets like angry and wants to reprimand them and tell them what to do. Reactively. Yeah. Versus imparting wisdom. That's not what it feels like. It feels like you just wanting to tell them what they're doing wrong.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that, and for for for me, that's tough because he's not around them that much. Do you want thing if you have both and you're giving the love and you're giving that discipline, but it doesn't seem like it's balanced.
SPEAKER_00Do you feel like he did that to you as a child? No. Oh, so it's not your rules that you're reliving. It's actually a new no, interesting.
SPEAKER_01My sister and I talk about it too. We're like, what? That is not in any way how we grew up. Like, what is why is dad so weird? Why is so weird with the kids? She's like, I know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I and maybe it's part of getting older too. It's like it's getting worse as you get older. Is it like slightly is dementia setting on, and they get those bouts of anger, and who knows? But you know, it's again, it's us looking at our parents thinking they're gonna always be the way they were when we were little, and they also grow and change.
SPEAKER_00I mean, actually, it's interesting to like realize that everything is constantly changing. Like, like, I think I used to resist change for like half of my life because I was scared of it, honestly. I was like, you know, like not knowing the unknown is scary, and you can't control what you don't know. And then you realize like we are all changing every single day, and like it's hard to see people though differently. Like, yeah, you forget that they're changing, you forget that they're changing, you know you're changing 100%. Yeah, but you want everything else to remain the same, and they're changing the way that they're changing, and you have no control over it, so there's only acceptance there. I think that's why family is always so triggering because it's like there's always some expectations. I'll go in with like telling myself I'm not gonna have expectations, and then I inevitably always do, yeah. You can't not have expectations though. Ah, I really would like to. I feel like that's like non-attachment. Like, I'm not gonna expect you to show up a certain way. I'm not gonna like yeah, but I mean, I fail every time, so maybe I should have look at it differently.
SPEAKER_01But I mean, one thing that's interesting when I think about like my mom after because her and my dad are separated, um, after that happening, and I knew she would dated and she had a few boyfriends, and my sister and I are always like, What like what happened? Where'd that guy go? Yeah, and she would always be like, Well, they wanted to get too serious, they wanted to come over, they wanted to come to the house, they wanted to like be part of the family, and I just don't want that. Mind you, we're like grown-ass adults at this point. I'm like, Mom, it's okay, get a boyfriend. Right. Like, you're good. And but she's like, No, this is I think part of it for her was you know, my parents never actually got divorced, so that both technically the house is still both theirs. And she has this thing where she's like, Well, you know, it's still dad's house. I can't like bring someone here. I'm like, wow. I was in high school. Wow, it's 25 years a long time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How interesting though, so that you cannot do the same thing because I could see a part of you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I 100% think about that all the time. That's when I'm like, Why why I wouldn't I I'm like, no, you're not in my house. Right. Never. I don't care if there's people in there or not. Right. Come in here. Of course, um, but everyone else is welcome to everybody. Everyone else, the neighbors, and they're like, what the hell? I'm the one that's not going to come in.
SPEAKER_00You're too close to me, so you're just inviting us. You cannot come in.
SPEAKER_01But it is something about protecting that like family unit, like with every fiber of my being, and I think that's what she did.
SPEAKER_00Um, but I mean, but she missed the transition of it's actually welcome. It's now you guys would celebrate that for her, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think it's I think it all would have been okay. Yeah, you know, if she met someone that wouldn't take care of her and was so loving and amazing, and like we would have loved them, and dad would have gotten over it. It would have been like, Okay, mom's a boyfriend, great, okay. You're not okay with it, you don't come over then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like it's but that kind of self-sacrifice, I think, was what we all came from. I think generationally, it was like you can't rock the boat that much, and so you just kind of deal. And I think that that might be the biggest shift of our generation is like we're saying, no, like this doesn't work for me, and it's not selfish to stand up for myself and to have needs and to have boundaries. And like, I mean, this is getting off on a massive tangent, but essentially, when I did like my first little silom journey, like I felt my dad's ancestors, the the women, being like so happy that I was gonna shed all this generational trauma of essentially like stuffing all of your emotions so that you can keep like the family dynamic, and I think it's so toxic. And I think that I am the first in this line of lineage to like be like, no, really, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Why do you feel like you aren't making like those sacrifices they made, or you're you feel empowered to just say this isn't working, or I don't like this, and talk about what uncomfortable things?
SPEAKER_00I think both. I think that I remember when I was moving to Chicago, and my other grandma, not my dad's side, but my other grandma was like, Why? Why would you leave the family, right? And like to even move far away and start your own life that does not revolve around your family that's all lived in the same area forever, is like even that to me was like a step of like I'm gonna live my own life and I'm gonna honor my family and love them, but I'm not going to make decisions based on what you need from me, right? And so I think it's like from that, or yeah, there's like you know, my dad's a family that has a lot of like you be nice to someone's face, but then you talk about it behind their back. And it's like, no, I'm not gonna show up like that either. It's like embracing my uncle who's gay and who literally hid half of his life because he was too embarrassed to like show up and like admit that he was gay, and like being able to like welcome him and be like, we're gonna stand with you regardless of what anyone else thinks. Like, I don't know. I think it's like, and I also think it's just little ways, right? It's like I think that my my grandmother on my dad's side was like expected to be a certain way, and I'm not doing that. Like, is it offensive to my parents that Chris wrote a book about all this stuff? Like partially, yes. Like they had a hard time, and they were like, My dad's like, you know, did he read it? No, he would not read it, and it's okay. But his my mom read it, and she actually read the part, like the the biggest part for them was you know the cheating part for her. Yeah, and she's like, I read it multiple times and it was beautifully written, and she was able to like talk to Chris about it. My dad couldn't, but my dad's cousin read the book and told my dad he really enjoyed it. And the fact is that cousin had affairs, like he cheated on his wife, but nobody talked about it. It was like you shove it under the rug. Yeah, and so for me to be like, it's okay that my mom's sisters are gonna talk about the decisions in that book or the way I live my life, or the fact that I wear shirts that show my stomach and I'm 45, and god forbid, it's gonna be fine. And I'm like, burn it all, burn it all down. Like, I don't care if you I tell my mom that I was like, don't worry about what any of the family is talking about me. I don't care. Yeah, and if they want to talk to me about it, tell them to pick up the phone because I will gladly have a conversation about how I'm happy and I am living my life, and their judgment is not helping any of it.
SPEAKER_01Do you think on the flip side of this question, do you think that your mom has changed or learned anything from how you live?
SPEAKER_00Or are they so stuck in their ways? 100%. She's so lovely. Like my mom's really good about being open and listening to me. And she would tell she's told me so many times, like, thank you for helping me see things differently. Yeah, and I think that she was raised to be closed-minded, and she has opened up to be very open-minded. And I think that she also recognizes that she doesn't have to agree with my decisions or even understand them. Yeah, but she loves me regardless of it. I mean, I've told my parents I was doing a psilocybin journey, and they're looking at me like I actually asked if they wanted to join me. Maybe that was too much. My mom considered it, but like they don't understand it, but they accept it. Yeah, and I think that the yeah, I don't that's a very big tangent. I just went off.
SPEAKER_01No, no, but it's it's it's interesting. I don't think my mom, I think, is like the least judgmental person ever. Yeah. So I don't think there's anything that like I'm doing that she whatever that she I just don't see it. Like, that makes sense why you're so non-judgmental. So she's any part of that. I think she I think she definitely not like wishes her life was different. I don't think that's it at all. But you know, like I said, she got really sick and she like she was so like she not was, is so she graduated high school, I think she was 16. Went to college super early. She was chemistry working at Johnson and Johnson in their labs. Like she had like, I think all these, and then got so sick. And I think so much of her life was like derailed by that. I think she probably looks at me and my life, and I know she's like so happy. Like, I got out of town, I got out of there. But on the flip side, like my sister lives in town and we have totally different lives, and she's married, and her husband works, doesn't have you know, she doesn't work, they have three kids, and they live on a cute little farm, and she's yeah, no, I mean they they've moved, they live in New York, in California, whatever, but they came back, and it's like we just have such completely different lives. But I think my mom is definitely like geez, so different than how she raised us, but I think from maybe from more of like a womanhood standpoint, not really a motherhood standpoint, because I think I'm probably probably very similar to how she was.
SPEAKER_00I would agree with that. I think I'm mother similarly, except for the communication part where I'm like, I'll tell you everything. But outside of that, I think I'm I show up similar as a mother. Yeah. Uh I scream less. My mom used to scream quite a bit. But outside of um outside of that, I do agree. But I think that the way I live my life is very weird to them. Yeah even living in Miami, like it's a weird place, right? So to move to Miami and raise your kids, it's a very interesting, interesting choice. But I think that uh to their credit, they my mom, you know, doesn't judge us, she knows I'm happy and and she supports that, you know.
SPEAKER_01I don't remember much screaming in my house. No, except again, my brother and my sister say there was, so maybe there wasn't just lock it out. Look out a lot of things. I don't know. My friend recently was like, When someone from high school, like, oh, I saw so-and-so recently, and I was like, Who's that? She's like, you don't you dated him for three months? Shut up. Did you really? You still don't remember him? I was like, I have no idea who that person is.
SPEAKER_00She's like, come on. I was like, uh. Do you worry that there's trauma under hit underneath what you don't remember? You don't care.
SPEAKER_01I don't think I chalk it up to the Lyme disease. I think it just burned part of my brain how that's actually that's fair. That works. I can go to a journey with you and maybe uncover something horrific, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00No. No. Well, good. I mean, and maybe it serves you too. Like, maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe you don't need to remember all this stuff. Like, no, no.
SPEAKER_01I remember. I mean, I it's funny, like, memories that you have, but I mean I have such vivid memories of my mom putting on this Sesame Street record, which meant we got to go into the kitchen and take all the pots and pans out of the pots and pans cabinet, and we would have a parade around the house where we would like wear pots and pans, bang pots and pans. I love it.
SPEAKER_00Have you ever done that with your kids? Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like they have multiple pictures of them with like colanders on their heads. That's amazing. Yeah. And it's funny, I have a record player and I have like Cinderella soundtrack on a record. I have mother who's like like rhymes on records.
SPEAKER_00I've got yeah, oh my gosh, that's so fun. I know. My mom used to do fun stuff too. She flooded our backyard once and didn't tell my dad. She said it was the rain, but like so that she can get us an ice skating ring. Yeah, it was so cool. We literally ice skated in our back. Like she's like, We know now, or is it the secret? Well, at this point, I can't imagine it's gonna be that. I don't know. She ever told him to be honest. She was super fun. But she used to say it, she's like, I had she had such bad PMS that she would like go through these wicked, yeah, wicked mood swings, and that's when she would like scream like and go crazy off the handle with us. I remember I used to hide. I used to hide in the house, and she would like start screaming, which is also probably why I hate being screamed at, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, she's like, I probably should have been medicated. She probably was just like super deficient in magnesium, really. But anyway, like she was like amazing 20 days out of the month.
SPEAKER_01Don't remember much yelling. I remember my dad used to chase us around the dining room table with a wooden spoon, pretending like he was gonna hit us. That's how we would get us to go to bed when my mom wasn't home. They didn't know what to do with us. Yeah, there was a lot of that, but no, but no screaming. I think that's you know, like we were talking about earlier, you know, times that off camera that you feel like guilty about when you're being like you're parenting, and I definitely moments where I like lose it and and yell. It's like I mean like a yeller, not like an angry yeller, it's just like when I read my voice, I just want like no one's gonna listen to me unless my voice is loud, and it's not really true. And I always know. I mean, and it's it's it always happens when I'm too tired. Yeah, yeah. And then I don't do a good job of, you know, and I probably get this from I mean, I think every mom is like this, that you just it's one thing, all this new self-care in the world, but like really putting yourself first to like get enough sleep, make sure you're doing that. Like, I'm just I'm not good at it, and I don't know if it's every mom or if it's just because it's just me and I'm alone and I don't have a partner at AMO.
SPEAKER_00I think that's probably a full-on conversation for another podcast, but I do know that I am way more reactive if I'm not taking care of myself first, also. Yeah, but I've gotten pretty good at it through the years, and like my kids recognize Ashton literally uh will tell me, like, go work out so you're not grumpy. Oh yeah, like I'm a better person. Like I am, like in M87. And he knows it, right?
SPEAKER_01But what a great like for him to know that and realize, like, hopefully in his life too, he realizes if you're not moving, if you're not taking care of your body, you're not gonna be the best person. And what a great deal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and to that point, like I don't you know, as much as we can like shit on the self-care because there is like this, you know, and I get it, and that's a whole other thing. But like our parents, like, my mom didn't do that. Clearly, your mom was not doing that, like she didn't take time away to like fill her cup and do her stuff. Or they're tired and overwhelmed, and we were always in their faces, and you know, and so yeah, she's like, yeah, like anyway, I think it's the reactive thing when when we're reactive is what bothers us in the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I I think if it was a warranted reprimanding, you don't really feel bad.
SPEAKER_00But when you look back, you're like, I think all yeah, I and it's like when you're triggered and you react, and then you're like, shit, I can't expect my kids to do better if I'm reacting, and that's where that's where that they were not perfect.
SPEAKER_01No. I mean, it's funny that you don't like voice. I had a little Ilya the other day when she'd be like, oh, we were at training at UN and the coach brought us his daughter, and Ilya was so sweet, and like playing a little girl and the girl's teething, and there's like a drool coming out of her mouth. And Ilya takes the bottom of her shirt and like wipes the drool coming out of this baby's mouth. And I was like, Ilya, and she looked like she said, you know, I'm gonna be a really good mom one day. That's so sweet. But I was like, oh yes, you are. You're so she's like so as wild and off the rails as she is. She's like so caring and has the biggest heart, and it was but it's funny that you even thought, like, thought of that. I love that.
SPEAKER_00You know, I'm gonna be a really good mom one day. And you know, that's such a kind of reminder of like whatever we do in this life. Like, you have shown up for your children and you're doing their best, and you're a great mom, and like we are so hard on ourselves, but like, could that be enough?
SPEAKER_01You know, I mean it definitely is enough, and I think it you know, we probably end up touching on this a million times throughout this podcast series, but it is enough, yeah. And you know, like we've said before, it's like how have we forgotten that that is enough? Like raising wonderful humans and thinking what else do we have to do? Yeah, like what else do we need to accomplish to feel complete versus realizing like that is completion?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's I mean, it's such amazing, powerful work that you pour so much love into these human beings. I'm gonna start crying too. And then you get to a point where there is an age where you see it, right? It's like, yeah. And and I don't know. I got an email from the school yesterday that Ashton was getting recognized from school. And I I'm gonna cry talking about it. I literally told him in the car when he got in the car. It's like, yeah, and I was like, I I was like, couldn't talk. And he's like, oh, mommy's crying, you know, but it's like to see like all the love that you pour into him in ways that are almost tangible is such a beautiful thing because there's it's mostly untan intangible, right? You don't really know. You hope that you're doing a good job, you hope the best, and nobody's saying, Thank you, mom, you're doing a great job. They're instead saying, like, this is so unfair, and you're eating dinner sucks, and whatever else it is, right?
SPEAKER_01But then you have these little nuggets where you're like, oh my god, like all I feel like there's all those micro moments, like it's so nice, like yes, from school, and they get like they get an award, or somebody recognizes that they're being kind, and and there are small moments where you realize like, okay, you're doing you're doing an okay job. Yes, so right. Like, oh, I was washing the dishes yesterday. Was it yesterday? Yeah, I guess we came in late. We're super late from baseball. I was washing the dishes because I already made dinner, it was already prepped, but I was just trying to the kid I wanted the kids to shower and not even ask them to do their chores, so I just did it. And Jaw came in and was like, Oh mom, you're washing the dishes. Do you want me to finish? And I was like, the fact that he was just like realized like that's it should be his job. He always does that, and I was doing it, and him just being like, Thanks. That's amazing. Do you want me to finish? And I was like, it's okay, I got it.
SPEAKER_00Crying into the dishes. He's really good at that. I've seen him, I've seen him do it too, where he's like, my kids run in the house and Giacomo's carrying my shit. Like, wait, what did I do wrong here? No, no, no, no. I have moments where like Brooks will like lay on the couch next to me still.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but Brooks's love language is like poking, hugging, and tackling you. Which he does like constantly.
SPEAKER_00So clearly borderline's physical abuse, but he it is that is his love language, and that's how he connects with me. And that's why I keep working out because otherwise he's gonna catch you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I remember when I lost the first like wrestling battle with Jacmo years ago and having to like fake an injury because I was like, I cannot let him know he just won that, right? He's in like third grade or something, yeah. So little. I was like fake an injuries. We didn't know he was about to tap me out. He probably knew.
SPEAKER_00He probably was like, my mom just fakiness.
SPEAKER_01Oh god. Well, I just I mean, I think sometimes we always like give ourselves a little bit of grace and realize we're showing up the best that we know how. So true. And at least I can, you know, I I think most moments say that.
SPEAKER_00I think most moms, I think we are, we are doing our best, and sometimes what that looks like shifts, right? And there are seasons of life that may be less pretty than others, but I agree. Every mom that I know is really working to do their best and show up for their kids, and we want the best of them, and it's out of love and a little crazy, but I know maybe the lesson is giving our parents a little more grace. I think that's the answer. Not even giving ourselves grace than your parents. I mean both. I think it's both, right? It's recognizing that it's hard and that we are doing the best and that our parents are doing their best too. And um, being a human is a messy experience. We're all doing the best we can. That's what we're here to talk about.
SPEAKER_01So all right, all right. Till next time.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We're really glad you're here. You can follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, and we're on social at Don't Tell the Kids with a bunch of honor scores. Hang in there, mamas. See you next week.