Don't tell the kids... psychedelics are medicine

Buckle up, this one goes places. Mel and Siobhan start out talking about how Siobhan is never going to be the organized, 4 a.m.-journaling type — and how living next to someone that disciplined can quietly make you feel like you're doing life wrong (you're not). From there, it somehow turns into a conversation about who we become inside long relationships, the parts of ourselves that get shaped by the person we're with, and the parts we get to keep.

Then it gets real. Mel shares about an old love from her teenage years who just passed away, and the psychedelic journey she did days later with a group of women. What she saw, what she felt, and the kind of peace that came with it — the wind, the love, all of it. We get into ayahuasca, mushrooms, the night she sent Chris off not knowing if he'd come back the same man, and what it actually means to love someone enough to let them go.

There are tears. There's a Foreigner song we tried not to sing. There's a story about Michael's mom thinking he'd been kidnapped because he was suddenly texting like a normal human. It's messy, it's tender, it's a lot — and it's so us.

If you've ever loved someone hard, lost someone unexpectedly, or just wondered what's on the other side of fear... pour the coffee. We're so glad you're here. 💛

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Need a break from your endless to-do list? Welcome to Don't Tell the Kids. We're two busy moms sharing the real, messy, funny conversations about life and motherhood. I'm Mel, mom of three, wellness nerd, an entrepreneur, figuring it out as I go.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

And I'm Siobhan, single mom of two, usually barefoot, and always saying yes to life. No advice, just honest conversations on and off the mic. So grab your coffee, hide out in your car, and don't tell the kids.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Audio's on. We might be in business, baby. Let's see if you can do it. We probably fucked up. Oh please. It was just like it was the video of us in the bathroom. And it was like, if you're, you know, if your life looks like this before 10 a.m., you're in the right place. And then it was like Melanie making kissy faces in the mirror. Someone who hasn't brought we don't know when the last time they brushed through their hair, not mentioning anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

What you get? This is real life, people. That's what we're working with. It's not a perfect podcast. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

That's actually what this should be called. This is not a perfect podcast. Change name.

unknown 1:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I think the don't tell the kids is like making it a kid magnet. Suddenly the kids want to like listen because it says don't tell the kids. Yeah, no, no, I think you're right. It's like, yeah. I mean, Maddox had a friend over the other day and he's like, I saw your podcast, and I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he I said, Do you mean the don't tell the kids what? Exactly. I'm like a homework episode. And then he was like, Yeah, I was like, what exactly did you anyway? I came down, so he only saw the trailer on Instagram. I'm like, okay, I don't know why you had Instagram in the first place, but thank you. But that was it. Because he's like, all I remember about it is you were drinking mocktails. And I was like, Oh, okay, good. I think we're fine. Which the way you say mocktails in that, I love it. You're like, we're bringing mocktails.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Are we actually drunk? Because that's why it's um you're so right. We're drinking mock tails. School pickup suit. Oh god. I know.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Oh my god, what's going on in your life?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

So nothing.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

That cannot be possible.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

What happened? Just leave for London tonight. That doesn't organize my life.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Your life is never organized. I think you should stop waiting for your life to be organized.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

I don't think I'm waiting for it because I know it'll never happen.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Okay, good. I've heard you say it before, like something about your life being organized. I'm like, that's not part of your cards.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

It's you know, I feel like I've realized it is not who I am. And I think sometimes because living in such proximity to Michael, even though you know we're not together anymore, but we're still intertwined.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Yeah. And so organized that it's like he's almost made me like feel bad about the kind of person I am, and being like, that's not what a successful, organized, you know, productive, disciplined person does.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

And like, all right, well, maybe not, but that's not that's just not me. It's not you.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Yeah, I remember the story that my mama told me a while ago. I feel like I had said this. I think about it a lot. There's like a story about a husband and wife, like a couple that she's friends with, and the wife got a car accident, and like not a bad one, but dinged up the front of the car, whatever, and she was like super nervous to go home and tell the husband, and she gets home, tells the husband, and the husband's like, Oh, all right, well, you know, it's not a bad, like, don't worry about it, it's fine. And then a couple weeks go by, car still isn't fixed. Maybe a couple weeks, and then the lady's like driving around a car that has a smashed in front, she kind of like gets frustrated. The husband, like, why like fix this? Why didn't you fix this yet? And he was just like, You can't have both. You I can't you can't be with somebody that's not upset that you didn't crash the car, but then somebody that's not like let's fix it immediately.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

And maybe some people do both, but I feel like it it comes and goes. Like, I think there's things that people probably love that I'm like so say yes to everything, fun and lighthearted and whatever, but then like don't also get frustrated that I'm not super organized and on time.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

That's just not part of my makeup, it's not how I operate. No, 100%. You can't have that best of both worlds, it's not it doesn't work that way. 100%. I think also it's like it's amazing that Michael's so disciplined and like awesome and people can learn from it, and and the world would be so boring if we were all just like him. Yeah, right? I know, and it would be super chaotic if we were all just like you. There's needed for all of us to be different. I know. Do we give Michael like a plug here if we can see who like we're talking about? Yeah, yeah. Go for it. You're the one yeah. So it's Instagram is Mike R Holland and hit like a fitness workout, whatever Instagram. And breathing breathing and movements and a lot of like notice system regulation, emphatic drainage stuff. But he's like up every morning at four o'clock, same routine, and writes in his journal every day for the last god knows how many years. Right. And I feel like his diet is super regimented. I mean, I eat clean, but that's like a whole nother level. He eats at two o'clock every day, eggs and avocado, and that's it. Wow, yeah. And which I great, that's awesome. Right. Make sure you feel great.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Totally. But sometimes I'm like, there's things in his life that are also pleasures that we should explore and have.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Yeah. And maybe every once in a while, if he does go out to eat or order whatever he takes, he he loves it that much more because he never gives it to himself. But I'm like, come on, food. It's like I love cooking, food and wine's like amazing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's actually really kind of funny that you guys were together for so long because you are so different. But maybe that's why, you know, like yeah, but do you think you and Chris are super different, or you're more like aligned in personality? It's like everyone's like, oh, opposites tracked. We're different. I mean, wouldn't you say we're more different than a like, we're more different than a like. I think that um thankfully we've been able to kind of grow on the kind of the same trajectory to some degree. Uh, but no, we're more different than we are similar. Well, you know, what's interesting is that I feel like you guys were together, you've been together for a long time. And I've always said this about George since I met him so early. I was 19, and we were together 18 years, that it's like I feel like part of me became who I was because you're in that relationship because someone so even though you and Chris are different, like you end up having this like middle lane that is maybe similarities because you have to be, otherwise the relationship isn't gonna work out. And I think with Michael and I I don't know, I think we probably both maybe knew it wasn't that type of relationship. Like he's more my friend than anything else. So it's like, why even try to conform to the other one? Because yeah, you know, he's always like a half relationship. It wasn't that real. Yeah. Yeah. I mean your best friends for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you know, it's interesting when you're young, you're just trying to figure out who you are anyway, right? And like you like grow up in this family, and then you start to be like, Well, I don't necessarily want to take on this from my parents. I I want to choose differently. And so, yeah, I think that Chris is 100% influenced who I am. Did you think you consciously thought of that? Like that idea of trying to figure out who you are. I did actually, but I'm like a I think I'm like different. I remember sitting in the car, and my mother is like a very nervous passenger, and she would like snap and judge my dad while he's driving, and my dad would get mad. And I specifically remember sitting there thinking, I will not do this to my husband. And no offense to my mom, like it just whatever, it just is. But I think that might bother you. Yeah, maybe it didn't even bother him as much. It did, but that was like your own shit, right? That's their own thing. But I remember, and so to this day, like did it bother you that she did it, or it bothered you watching your dad's reaction to her doing it. Both. It bothered me both, but because I think that you can say something, no matter what, in a loving way, but like it was always kind of like snappy and like reactive. Yeah, and mom, I love you. I'm sorry not gene to talk shit. But but I just remember being like, I don't want to get a family disclaimer at the beginning of the movie. We seriously do. We're fucked up too. 100%, just observing. Yeah, but I think that I'm like a I think I'm different in the terms of like I don't pay attention to things. Like, you know, like I don't know, I don't know actors, I don't know movies, I don't know music, I don't know shit about like real life. So what I've always paid attention to, what I've always been interested was people, like how people show up, how they interact, like what they're what to that I think is what I paid attention to. So that's yeah, so yeah, I would just literally pay attention to that one. I don't think I could ever remember myself younger being like, who am I going to be? What kind of person will I be? Oh, mom used to do this. I don't want to do that. Yeah. And I'm sure subconsciously there's things that I do and don't do because of my upbringing. Yeah. It's interesting, actually. So a guy I dated when before Chris, actually, the guy I broke up with to be with Chris, so I wouldn't, yes, I broke with him from a pay pay phone. This is about to get dark, kind of, but no, but it's gonna come back to light. Um, when I was like 19 years old, I called him from Cancun, so I wouldn't cheat on him with Chris.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

That's the best week.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

Yes, I'm very honest. Anyway, he passed away like a week and a half ago at 44 years old, like horrible. I was so devastated last week, like so much heaviness, and like and I was like what what he uh God, that's a whole story, which I'll make kind of short, but essentially he struggled with mental health, which I blamed myself partially because like he went to the navy, and I call like maybe he went to the navy because I was like, What are you gonna do with your life? Yeah, but even if that is the case, it was his choice, and I can't take that on. And um, anyway, and he had like depression and he got into drugs after before the day after, and so um he he passed away. But I was like, I hadn't talked to him in 10 years, and I'd only talked to him once. I think it was an overdose, or it was like fentanyl because he and his wife died the same day, which is crazy. I know insane so awful. So it's either bad drugs or they were clean and they did too much. I think it was like heroin. No, thank God. But anyway, I say all this because I was like, okay, I was like, I haven't, he hasn't been in my life for like 25 years. And I was like, why am I like so heartbroken over this? And so I went through all this processing, and part of it was like, oh my god, I was at such a young age that he also like helped shape who I was. Really tried out to cry. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to take this in a dark place. Yeah, anyone that knows it is not abnormal. The feels we welcome all the feels, but I got to I did a psychedelic journey, interestingly enough, this past weekend. And I you did this weekend? I did. Oh, because of that at trade ready or you had planned it? It was already like pre-planned and it was with a group of women, and I had never done it in a group, and I was kind of concerned. But with the same shaman data before, yes, so I trusted that. And um, and so I asked the shaman essentially, like, what do you think? Like, I'm kind of afraid to like fall apart with this group of women. I've never done it in a group, and she's like, Nothing is accidental, like the fact that this is presented to you, like what a gift. So, anyway, I was in my journey and I was like, like said to him, like, are you here? And it was so beautiful because it's so hard to put into words what you experienced in psychedelics. I know, I'm sorry. But literally, like it was like, yes, and I saw him, but essentially he turned into like the wind, and it was like, I am everywhere and I'm everything. And it was the most beautiful thing, and like all of my sadness is literally gone. Like, I'm like, he's great, like he is literally among us right now, and he's not suffering, and he was suffering, and and the strings that tie us will never break. Like, he is connected to me, it's forever a part of my story. Like, I will love, I will have love for him forever. And like, what a beautiful thing that we are like, we were kids, and he's like, and I get to remember him as that like this beautiful light that he was, which was like so much. I mean, he was he was the most fucking fun. He was so fun. He was. I remember first dating Chris, and I was like, I don't know, maybe you're too serious for me. And it was because that the guy before was so fun, and like such a Did you meet him at college or at high school? I met him actually at camp when I was camping. We used to I grew up camping, like trailer camping, which sounds ghetto as fuck, but it was amazing. We used to go every weekend in the summer and I met him there. He's from Pittsburgh from Ohio. I mean it's beautiful like and it would talk about psychedelics on here before, but the idea that like maybe if he did a journey, I know he could have entailed literally all these like amazing medicines at our fingertips that nobody wants to try to use because of our you know, quote unquote war on drugs, and you know, there's a difference between cocaine and mushrooms, 100%. Like heroin, they're both the same like class A or class one, whatever drugs is crazy. It's crazy. Honestly, I know that they it can help with those 100%. I you were struggling, yeah, and it took one session journey session, and I'm like, I'm at peace with this. 100% peace. And I thought that last week I was walking and I was like, God, if only he had the resources, if only this had been presented, like maybe his life could have been different. And so then I'm like, maybe I have work there, like maybe I have work in the future that that like maybe that's also what this was for me in my life. And I'm like, just show me, like, I'm like, just keep calling it and like show me what how was it doing with the group versus alone?

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Do you like it or do you love alone?

SPEAKER_03 13:39

I was always afraid of it because I'm like very sensitive and I was like, I don't want to lay next to someone and experience all of their stuff, right? And it was so interesting because during that, I went in with the intention of show me what love is. Yeah, and literally I felt like I was sitting with God, like I was the most beautiful thing. I felt like pure love, and that's all I could feel, even though I could I could hear other people around me, I could hear crying, I could hear whatever, and I knew other people were having their own experiences, but all I could feel in that part of this moment was love. It was like it's beautiful, and it was interesting. I think that being with women is really actually it was it was for me for sure. Do you feel like when you like you're like, I want to know what love is? Yeah, have a really hard time not singing that song that you're planning to say that go for a gear offist. If I do, everyone will turn to stop. I sing so bad. Do you feel like it always gives you that answer? Or sometimes you're like, no, that's not the answer, that's not like the question we're answering today. I think that you are shown what you need to see the most. So I've had this is my third journey. I'm another one actually, kind of soon, which is kind of interesting, but on my own, yeah, which will be different. And um, I mean it's medicine, it really is. It's medicine that shows you what you need to be seeing, which you need to see. It'd be obviously I microdose mushrooms, yeah. But besides, like, you know, a couple times in high school or college working a lot. Yeah, I've never done a journey. I thought of you actually, because I was like, it was people that we all both know, and I was like, oh, interesting that maybe you would join us someday. Maybe I would, yeah. Or maybe in your own setting. I think you know, you have to be called to it and whatever speaks to you. But I feel like mushrooms would probably the one I would do first. That's how I feel. I trust that. And it's like, yeah, sometimes when I think about like the ayahuasca or the buffo or DMT, like, and maybe it's like that, maybe this isn't the right way to look at it because I'm sure there's bigger, better ways to look at life, but I feel like I love how I see the world and life and love right now. That I'm like, I don't want, I don't want to like change how I see things and change how I see my kids or how I view love or anything. But like that kind of scares me a little. I mean, I get that, except for it's like when I when I did my first mushroom journey, I was like a little bit nervous. And I remember going in saying, like, please be gentle with me. And like what I but the answer I got back was I am love. Like it is literally it's all love. Like it's a fucking mushroom, it comes to me. Yeah, yeah. And so it's always there's always more love. So it just amplifies like what you already experienced. But I understand, like when Chris first went to do ayahuasca, we were laying in bed next to each other, and I said to him, I was like, What if you come back and you don't want to be married anymore? And he said to me, He said, I thought that too. Yeah, and I was like, Fuck. I was like, but you still have to go. He's like, I know. And so I like sent him because I knew he needed it and he was in a place where like he needed something drastic, knowing like he may never come back to me. But he came back like a hundred times better.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Like it was like I cry all the time, and you don't, so why are you crying? I don't know, I don't know. The funny part is this is gonna be his whole footage.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Not only that, it's gonna be the quickest podcast, and I'm gonna cry the whole time because we're having a friend come over who literally needs a hug. And so we're like just wow, that makes you so emotional thinking of that. Because I think that it's scary, like scary, it was scary to be like, I know you need this, and I love you enough that you need to do this, even if it breaks my heart. And that's what I was afraid of. I was like, this is gonna break my heart. If you come back and tell me you don't want to be married anymore, it's gonna break my heart. But I love you enough that that's what has to happen, and that's like a really hard thing to do, you know. Yeah, but it was like good for fucking me. Like, I'm brave, you know? And I never thought of myself as a brave person, and then um, yeah, I mean, I guess it's like hard to love any someone, right? Like wanting what's best for them 100%. And I think that that's the reality is like when you really like are trying to live an intentional life, which I think we are trying to live intentional lives, it's like I don't want him to be with me because he feels bad or for the wrong reasons ever, right? It's like I want all of it. I want the fucking love that hurts so bad that you crushes you because the other side of that is that it feels so good, it like completes you. You know what I mean? Like fucking Jerry McGuire shit, but yeah, better to love the lost to never love. Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, it's true, but it's true, it's true, it's true. It's hard. Like, would I give anything back from my relationship to George? No, it was crushing when heartbreaking at the end, sure. But no, I remember when Michael went to go do ayahuasca. It's funny, I don't think I had those emotions of like, are you gonna come back and not want to be together anymore? I turn being like, you yes, I need it, you need this for you, like and he talks about it on his Instagram, so like I'm like, yeah, talk about anything that doesn't want out there, but you know, his like journey of self-love and knowing like he did he have like love for himself, let alone loving other people, which I think still think it's a journey he's going through. Totally. But he's like, Yeah, you need to do that, yeah, 100%. And then maybe you can show up better in this relationship. But I think it's like you know, I think people obviously uh often don't do these things because there's a fear, and there is, I get it, it's hard to base it. But then, like, like what you what I've experienced through deep meditation and through psychedelics is always the same thing, and it always is love. So even if it was like we have to separate with love, it would be crushing, but it would be with love, you know. I remember Michael calling me after the ayahuasca, and it was like he like look different a hundred percent. Did they do before and after pictures when Chris was there? No, but I could tell from a text message that he had changed, literally. It's it was like the crazy before and after pictures that's clear, and it was like his like eyes were clear, it was weird. That's cool, yeah. And talking to him, like I think in that conversation, he maybe told me I was beautiful like three times, and I think in four years you maybe said it twice.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

I had the same experience of what is happening?

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Who are you? Bobby Snatcher, literally. Chris sent me a text, like, hi, gorgeous. And I'm like, this is not how it's hard for me. Who stole your pops? Seriously, who are you? And please stay, because I like you. Yeah, but Michael, he he went to Britney, which is in Costa Rica, and then I guess he went if everybody went after. I don't know if he went stayed in Costa Rica or he traveled somewhere else and he went surfing after he went for like a week of surfing. Uh and his mom called me and was like, Have you talked to Michael? Or she texted me, like, have you talked to Michael? I'm really nervous. I think someone is kidnapped, he's kidnapped. I think because she didn't know he went to me to ayahuasca. She said, I don't have surfed her. It's like, I think someone kidnapped him. They have his phone, he's not answering his phone, he's only texting, it's not him. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Our visitor is here. Yeah, no, no, no, come. Like, and I was like, no, it's okay because I'm sure he was texting her. Like, they don't, you know, they didn't, he's just not that person. And she's like, someone kidnapped him. This is not him writing to me. Like, really thought that it was somebody else, which is wild that something can have that much of an impact. We all need kidnaps.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

All right, we have to go. So we just cried and talked about drugs. And we're gonna go do this. We're gonna go cry with our friends.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Another person enjoyed us, they cry. We're so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yes, if anyone needs to cry, sorry very long, quickly to listen.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yeah, stay tuned for the next. Love you all. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We're really glad you're here. You can follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, and we're on social at Don't Tell the Kids with a bunch of underscores. Hang in there, mamas. See you next week.