Don't Tell the Kids

Don't tell the kids... once you know, you can't un-know.

• Melanie Hunter & Siobhan Lee

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0:00 | 1:02:06

You know that feeling when something in your gut won't quiet down, even when every "expert" in the room is telling you you're overreacting? This week we go there. We start where we always do — somewhere completely random, this time Dirty Dancing and the back rooms where men used to go rent their, ahem, movies — and somehow end up on the stuff that actually keeps us up at night. How different it is to raise kids now that everything is in their pocket. The conversations about porn and Snapchat and AI we never imagined we'd have to have. And then the one that cracked us both open: the day one of our boys had a vaccine reaction, the way a mother just *knows* her child has changed, and what it's like to be told you're wrong by someone who met your kid once.

This isn't us telling you what to think. It's just two moms being honest about following our intuition, the books we couldn't put down, and the terrifying, freeing thing that happens once you start asking questions — you can't go back to not knowing.

Pour the coffee. We're so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_04

Need a break from your endless to-do list? Welcome to the telecamera. We're two busy moms sharing real, busy, funny conversations about life and motherhood. I'm Ellen, a mom of three, mom of third, an entrepreneur figuring it out as I go.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm Siobhan, a single mom of two, easily barefoot, and always saying yes to life. No advice, just honest conversations on and off the mic. So grab your coffee, hide out in your car, and don't tell the kids. The bitch needed a time out. Somehow we got talking about it. Put it together. Well, Ilya told me she watched it the other day.

SPEAKER_05

Ilya watched 30 dancing?

SPEAKER_01

And I was like, where? She's like a dad's. I was like, oh. With him? Well, then I was curious. I'm sure he wasn't paying attention to doing something else. And you know, obviously there's like that back alley abortion whole thing. Totally. And so I was like, oh, I was like, Ilya, I forget in that in that movie, why does the girl go see the doctor? And she's like, what doctor?

SPEAKER_00

Like, clearly they don't see it the way we see it.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, there's some. Remember the one dancer who did who's like the good dancer that she goes to a doctor and she's like, I don't know, I must not have been paying attention. So I think sometimes those concepts that don't even like register to them.

SPEAKER_04

But there's some seriously hot sex scenes in there, aren't there?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if there's sex, is there? Or is it just really slutty dancing?

SPEAKER_04

I thought there's that one time where that one time at Bandcamp. Yeah, no. One time at Patrick Swayze at the 30-year-old's apartment with the baby. I don't know. I wasn't there. I swear they had sex.

SPEAKER_01

It was like very erotic.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. I also remember specifically I was not allowed to watch that movie for a long time. My mom was put it told me no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05

Alright, then what was the age difference?

SPEAKER_04

It is funny if you think about it. Like my favorite movies were as a kid, like Pretty Woman, my top favorite movie. Oh man, I know. Which is like literally about a prostitute and a rich man saves you, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I'm down. Yeah. Tell me more. Tell me more. Hashtag goes.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god. Or it's the rich girl who's like slumdogging with the hot dancer.

SPEAKER_06

Slumdogging.

SPEAKER_03

With the hot dancer.

SPEAKER_01

Or let's see.

SPEAKER_04

Aspirations.

SPEAKER_01

Which is your preferred fantasy?

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. I don't know that I can answer that without having like I have an obsession, a mild, mild, mild obsession with Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. Like I just love her in there.

SPEAKER_01

Well, like why? What part?

SPEAKER_04

I think that I just like I think that I love when she like the when she's all dressed up, first of all, and they she goes to the. When they go to the opera? Yes, and she goes to reach for the necklace and he goes to shut it and she laughs. Like her laugh to me is like so pure and joyful. It's like she's got that big smile that takes over her whole face. Like, so I would I guess I would choose to be a prostitute, but not really. Which one would you say?

SPEAKER_01

Definitely pretty woman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You too? Yes. Yes, 100%. Because baby was a little bit of a nerd, maybe that's why.

SPEAKER_01

Dirty dancing. She was supposed to be 17 and Johnny Castle was 25. See, that's rape. Nowadays. Nowadays you can't have that. I think it is. Actually, I don't know. I don't know if it's like the not so not so much the baby as the rich little girl and then Patrick Swayze that you're like slumming it. I think it's more like, hey, dance teacher, right? If someone was my teacher that I would go for.

SPEAKER_04

I have been more likely to like like the bad boy, so I would be more likely to be in that situation. So maybe that's why the other one seems more appealing. It's so much further than my real life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I had a really hot teacher in college. Young, like 20s? Yeah, he wasn't old either, but he was he was cute. This made for some interesting thoughts. Oh yeah? In high school? You were in high school? No, no, no. I was in college. Uh and a hot teacher in high school too.

SPEAKER_00

She read his name.

SPEAKER_01

I did not. None? No.

SPEAKER_00

I think he was a history teacher.

SPEAKER_01

Can you really have a hot history teacher? I mean Indiana Jones, hello. I hated that movie, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

How can you hate Indiana Jones?

SPEAKER_04

Because I had a brother and he made me watch that. And I wanted to watch like My Little Pony or something, and I was bitter.

SPEAKER_00

My little pony.

SPEAKER_01

I remember there was a movie and I I tried to let Ilya watch it recently, and I was like, oh yeah, this is so inappropriate. Do you remember the movie called She's Out of Control with Tony Danza? No. I know. And he has like a I guess he's getting married. There's like a stepmother, and while he goes away on a work trip, like it's her 17th birthday or 16 or something, and they go and get like her mate, like her braces come off, and she loses her glasses, and then she's like the hottest girl in town. I love that made my sister watch it. Remember, you used to go to like the movie store and you had to walk through the aisles and like pick out the movies, like Blockbuster.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, yes, like the DVD store.

SPEAKER_01

We didn't even have a Blockbuster because we lived in the middle of nowhere or some like janky, like tiny movie store out in the woods. And every time I would go and rent it, my sister's like, We've already seen this. I'd be like, I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_00

I mentioned it like every weekend, I would say I never saw it.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my god, when you were talking about that, it reminded me of like the nasty places who used to have like a back room where you could go watch like a porn.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's disgusting. Yeah. The back movie. Yeah. In like the back of movie theaters. Or like the back, like a DVD store. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or was it a DVD store? Oh wait, and the guys would go watch it back there and like spank off while they're watching it, or they would go rent them in the back.

SPEAKER_04

No, no. I think you would like maybe this was actually in a sex store though. Do you remember this though? I seriously remember. Like maybe it was like a sex toy store.

SPEAKER_01

I think there's grandma. I've never been to. Yeah, sex. Like a like a actually there was one near us growing up. It's called like Red Barn Something. And it was like, I think like a, I don't know, but you could go and watch. And I only remember because my dad and his friends, as a joke, because it was in like a prominent area, he would drive by all the time. And one of their friends had a very like unique, noticeable car. So while he was away on vacation, they parked it in the parking lot all week.

SPEAKER_00

It's like a practical joke. That's hilarious. Everybody drove by his car was in the parking lot of like the porn store.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my gosh. That's what it must be. It must be a porn store that has like a room you can watch the movie in. It probably just smells like cum as soon as you walk in.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's disgusting.

SPEAKER_04

And like who needs that room? Like someone who can't take it home? Maybe. Maybe their wife is there.

SPEAKER_01

They're not allowed to watch porn at home. That's why. Think about it. Like, there's no devices back then. It's like you had one TV in the house normally, then it was in the living room. Oh my god, that's true.

SPEAKER_05

That never never occurred to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. I know. I mean, I had not the comp porn conversation with my dad about this, but the concept of like, you know, he's like, I don't understand, you know, I used to watch TV every day when I got home from school. Why is everyone so upset about kids being on watching so much TV? And I was like, well, Dad, it's not the TV. Yeah. It's that mom is in the kitchen cooking and maybe she's on her phone doing whatever, dad's on his computer doing whatever. This kid's in their room doing this, this kid's in their room doing this, versus there's one TV in the house. Right. And if someone's gonna watch something, there's like five choices. Right. It's like Gilligan Islands. Yeah, and then everybody sits and watches Dick Van Dyke's show together.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. I think you're fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's also for the record is still one of my favorite TV shows. Dick Van Dyke? Yeah. I think I watch it every week. Seriously?

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I love that show. I really don't know that I've ever watched a full one. Oh my gosh, it's it's amazing. Wow. It's so good.

SPEAKER_04

That was like a favorite when you were growing up too?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was a total nerd, and I would go and like watch it by myself in my parents' room, and my family would watch like real TV, and I would go watch like I Love Lucy and Dick Van Dyke and like Mary Tyler Moore show. My sister would be like, what are you doing up here? You're so weird. Oh my god, when you were little. High school, I loved it.

SPEAKER_04

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_01

Such a nerd.

SPEAKER_04

When I was in high school, I'd be I remember getting a TV in my room. It was like this tiny little TV in high school, finally. And I and I used to be able to watch Skinemax.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh. Remember when like MTV video music videos came out? Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh wait, no TVs. I don't even know how we got started on the conversation. Did we have a topic today? Well, we started talking about was dirty dancing, and I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04

No, we know it doesn't matter if we have a topic. We talk about whatever anyway. So the topic never lasts anyway. So it doesn't even matter. I don't think how wild that is. That is so interesting that that is how much things have changed to the point where in our childhood, a grown man would go to a freaking DVD store to buy porn. To now it's accessible on everyone, like in a in your pocket and your hand. Like that's that's dramatic.

SPEAKER_01

Mind you, there's probably like 30 options to choose from. And now you go online, and I'm I mean, maybe on one hand, okay, great, you're a weird pervy thing. There's other thousands of other people that are into that also.

SPEAKER_05

But like, do we really need this so accessible? I know. No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_04

Not that accessible. That's a lot. That's what's wild, right? Yeah, it's just different too. It's like and away from porn, even it's like part of the issue I have is like the kids all want to be on YouTube. And then they're all watching these shorts, and I'm like, that's just reinforcing your lack of paying attention, right? It's like you don't even have to pay attention. Like a movie, if you sit and watch a whole movie, it's one thing, right? Like if you're watching in that hour and a half, you're watching 150 shorts. Like fucking it.

SPEAKER_01

But don't you feel like when you even watch, like if you go to the movies with your kids these days and you go and watch a movie, like, and then you watch an older movie at home or whatever, if you go rent it, just the pace of everything is slower. Like, I don't even know if kids could sit through some of these older movies. They're so bored.

SPEAKER_04

We just watched Ferris Buller's Day Off, actually. Oh, my kids love it. Do you do your expensive?

SPEAKER_03

I think they actually did like it.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, it's funny because like the quality is like so different compared to how by today's standards, but they actually did enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01

Have they seen Sandlot?

SPEAKER_04

Yes, we've watched Sandlot. It's a good one, yeah. But we started going back to some of these old movies because we couldn't, we can never find like newer movies that we could all agree on that we want to watch.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, we should get a list together of like good old ones because there are so many. But yeah, and it's interesting from like a technology standpoint, and then also just like the access to everything so sexual, and even shows now that I go to put on, and it's like, oh, TV 14. And Ilya, you know, obviously's 11, she's not 14, but the older boys are, you know, they're 13, they're close enough. And I'm like, this is not appropriate. This is not for a 14-year-old. Yeah. Like talking about, I don't know. Or maybe I'm just being like a prude. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04

I say I can't speak to that per se, because I feel like whatever we pick is never has sexual contact content, really. Except for like the Titanic, actually, the Titanic. Titanic. I know. The funniest part about the Titanic is Ashton's little friend in school is obsessed with the Titanic. That kid had to be reincarnated from the yeah. I swear to God, he's eight years old and obsessed.

SPEAKER_02

No.

SPEAKER_04

Actually, he was the one at the Mother's Day on the flute playing the Titanic song. Yeah, literally. That was him? Yes, that's him. He's super cute. He's adorable. He did a great job. But so Ashton was like ups Ashton's my youngest, right? So he he was obsessed with watching the Titanic. And this was when he was seven, and I was like, I don't really know. Is it appropriate? I think it's appropriate. And so this is such a bad parenting. But we put the movie on, and for whatever reason, Chris and I decided we were gonna go have our own date upstairs and take a glass of wine. This must have been last year because we were drinking. We took a glass of wine upstairs and and ended up having our own time.

SPEAKER_03

And time, let's just call it that.

SPEAKER_00

Two kids watch a porn video while we go upstairs and make out.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, seriously, so actually we forgot something. So Chris goes downstairs. I don't even know what he was getting. Chris goes downstairs and he comes up and he's like, oh my god, I go down and the naked the lady's naked. And Maddox and Ashton are sitting on the couch, like totally quiet.

SPEAKER_03

Like Chris down there? No, he was not. He refused to watch it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04

So Chris's like, I had to like think hard, like what else is there in this movie? So he's like, I fast forwarded it. Oh my gosh, I was like, that's great.

SPEAKER_01

I love that that's the moment that he went down though.

SPEAKER_03

Good timing, right? Or like God moments.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and that's why sometimes, like, all right, maybe those little things don't matter because you don't remember it even later when you remember the movie. You're not like, oh, there's that scene where her boobs are out and having sex in the back of a car or whatever. But like, yeah, or like Iliad said, she doesn't even remember the abortion or why that there was a girl in the movie, but it's subconsciously it's gotta go somewhere. When Giacomo was little, he was maybe eight or so. It was around Christmas time, and you know how much I love Christmas, and we will just start watching Christmas movies at like Halloween all the way through New Year's. And I think at one point I'm like, oh man, I guess we can't watch Home Alone again for the 35th time this year. Yeah. I was like, oh, love actually. That's a that's a cute Christmas movie. Oh, do you remember? No. Oh, see? We don't even remember these scenes. I, similar to you know, what you and Chris kind of walked out of the room. I didn't go do anything fun. I was probably like wrapping presents or doing something else. And I come back in and Jock was like, Mom, this movie was so weird. I was like, why? What? He's like, Well, the guy was standing behind the girl holding her boobs, and and I was like, oh my god, remember the two characters are like porno stand-ins. Oh and he's like standing behind her holding her boobs as if he's like having sex with her from behind, but they're just like simulating it, but she has no top on. I'm like, oh my god, I love my eight-year-old to watch that by himself. What is that?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. But see, that's the memory. It's so weird, right? But I don't even remember that being in the movie. I don't remember that being in the movie at all. You remember feeling something. I remember when I was a kid, I was little, I was maybe like eight years old, maybe ten, I don't know. But my grandpa took me to see The Bodyguard.

SPEAKER_01

Oh.

SPEAKER_04

And I couldn't tell you the sex scene in that movie, but I can tell you there was one because I remember the feeling of being so uncomfortable sitting next to him, watching it on TV, on the movies theater screen. No way.

SPEAKER_01

Is there a sex scene? I don't remember that movie at all.

SPEAKER_04

There has to be actually I need to watch it again, but there was something that made me super uncomfortable at that point. Next being next to my grandpa, being like, oh my god, please make this go fast.

SPEAKER_00

Please make this go away.

SPEAKER_04

Oh man. Actually, that reminds me too. One time when before we had kids, my parents were visiting. We probably lived in Chicago at the time. Well, we had to. I don't know if it was Sopranos or something else, but we had a movie on, and it just so happened that I got up. I always get up, I'm like the worst movie watcher.

SPEAKER_03

And my dad wasn't in the room either, so Chris Chris was like, I'm sitting next to your mom on the couch. It's like a full-on sex scene on TV. It's like I'm so uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01

It is funny though, like, I forget there's some comedian, oh, is this Lenny Bruce? Do you remember that comedian from like, I don't know, maybe he's like the 50s, 60s, and he was very like political, whatever. Actually, the the that show, The Marvelous Mrs. Mazel, have you ever seen that TV show on Amazon? It's really good. It's about like a female comedian, not true story, but Lenny Bruce, who actually existed, is in it and they like become friends, whatever. And I don't remember if he talks about it in the show or if I've like heard his comedy, but he which I think is so true, it's like we're s the idea that there's like a sex scene in a movie. You know, I think there's nice love making, not I'm not referring to like, you know, a raunchy whatever sex scene, that we're like, oh my god, is there sex in it? But yet we let our kids watch a movie where like someone gets like shot in the face.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, like why are we okay with the violence part of it? No, I know. But something that is actually like loving and nurturing and you know, like a can be like a beautiful thing between humans. We're like, uh it's just comfortable to watch it with your kids, I think, is the thing, right? But but it's like why? versus oh you're watching somebody get stabbed to death or something. I don't like killing a movie. But I feel like they watch it, maybe, but not with me.

SPEAKER_04

Really? Yeah, no, I'm like, I'm like super sensitive, honestly. I can't watch things like that and then go right to bed. Like it messes with my head. I'll lay there and I'll so no.

SPEAKER_01

That's funny. I remember when I was pregnant with the kids, I wouldn't I had to like stop watching certain TV shows. So I was like, I feel like this is affecting Yeah, that's how I am all the time.

SPEAKER_04

So I literally am like a weirdo. I don't watch that much stuff anyway, but so I feel like I'm probably equally weird with both.

SPEAKER_01

But like, what kind of shows does Brooks like to watch?

SPEAKER_04

Well, right now he's obsessed with e-bikes, so he watches this e-bike guy all the time.

unknown

Oh yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm sure Jaquel watches that stuff on his own, but like I will not let any YouTube short stuff be on our television.

SPEAKER_04

He said no for the longest time. I was like, no to YouTube Shorts. And then he asked if he could watch this guy who hunts. Oh yeah. So Chris is like, I don't have a problem with if it's educational. And I was like, I actually don't either. Like, I get that. And so we started watching this guy hunting, and then he wanted to watch this e-bike, and I was like, I don't really have a problem. The kid's not a bad kid, it's actually like he seems like a decent kid. It's just like boring to me.

SPEAKER_01

I don't mind if the videos are longer format. Yeah. Jockman used to love to watch this fishing guy. It's like, fine, you're gonna go watch him go fishing for 40 minutes. Sure. Right, right. But when it's like which I'm like, oh my god. I'm like, okay. Or like if it I mean, I guess if they're I mean, I don't know, that yeah, this e-bike thing is interesting. So I'm like, oh, I like that they're being hands-on, like Jockman's ordering parts and fixing it. He's got his whole like toolbox that he's like trying to so they're learning, but the shorts thing I just I can't.

SPEAKER_04

It makes my brain hurt. No, it makes my brain hurt too. I was sick last week and I literally could not be in the room with it on. Like it made my head want to explode. I hate, hate, hate.

SPEAKER_01

No, I turn it off all the time.

SPEAKER_04

But it's such a slippery slope, right? It's so tricky because I was like, no, you took we took we cut out YouTube for years. And then it's like, well, okay, what about this one? And then we say yes, and then it goes to like, you know, and I'm like it's so hard.

SPEAKER_01

But I also feel like I don't know who controls these algorithms at YouTube, but it'll go from like an e-bike video to something totally unrelated.

SPEAKER_04

I was afraid of that too, and I said that to Brooks because I was like, I don't know what it's gonna serve you up. Yeah. But if he's on like it's like Sarronster or whatever, and he's on Syronster's page, it'll only serve him the next the next one. Because I've watched that, yeah. Because I thought the same thing. I'm like, I'm afraid you're gonna get like, who knows? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

No, they're learning some of this stuff somewhere out there. Ilya made some like inappropriate, like sucking a penis motion to me the other day. I'm like, what are you doing? Oh god. She's like, oh, I don't know, my friends are doing that. I was like, no. She's like, what does it mean? I'm like, ah, I just don't do it, Ilya. Like, what, right? Actually, I won't be like, but then I'm also like, oh, she's curious. Am I supposed to like talk to her about this? She's 11.

SPEAKER_04

I was actually having a conversation with Maddox about this stuff recently because he was saying, This is the greatest thing about dates. We got away from dates for like months and months. I just said to Chris, I'm like, we need to get back to dates. So I did a date with Maddox, and he started telling me about how like kids in their class send inappropriate videos. And uh, yeah. And I'm like, Like what though? I didn't ask, and I probably should have, but I also was like, that's like gets into a slippery territory. If I'm like, what and who? Then do I have a responsibility to say something to the parents? And like, how involved do I get? And like, I don't know. I don't want, you know, like it I was so I didn't. Instead, I just talked about, I was like, do you know what porn is? And like, here's the problems with porn, and you know, and like you can't unsee it, and that half of the I mean they're actors, it's not even real, and like you want to see things that are not. What did he say?

SPEAKER_01

Was he like, oh my god, mom, or was he like, you think he was listening?

SPEAKER_04

He's actually so open. He's so open. He was he so funny. Brooks like gets so quiet and won't say a word. But Alex is like totally different. I won't embarrass himself.

SPEAKER_01

No, but he's this he's the kid that like at the end of last year in class, he's like, you know, some of the kids in our class really aren't getting along. So a few of us are gonna get together and see how we can all be a better class together, because we can be better than this.

SPEAKER_04

I'm like, I know, he's so sweet, and he's so open. I was so happy about it. He literally was like sharing how they did like sex ed, they were talking about like erections and wet dreams, and like, and he's like, My friends and I call it blocked up.

unknown

What?

SPEAKER_04

I never heard that one, but I was like, anyway, very open, which I was glad, but I don't I mean, I I guess my thought is if they the things come up, let's I'd almost rather. But inappropriate videos of themselves? No. Oh, okay. Like that you need to Oh, 100%. I would have gotten that. No, just and what inappropriate means is who knows, right? It could be like French kissing or whatever. He was actually saying, he's very open. He was like, one of the girls was like saying that the two kids that are dating were trying to have sex. Of course they weren't, right? He's like, you know, but it's like I don't know why they would start rumors like that. Nobody's trying to have sex. And I'm like, that's nobody should be having sex in elementary school, first of all. I was like, that's a Way adult. It's like in elementary school, you maybe like peck, like kiss. That's it. And like that's the only thing that's appropriate at this age. And he's like, no, I know. But we I feel like we have our kids in this very like bubbled private school. I mean, granted, it's Miami, but still, like, it's a very bubbled private school. And I'm like, what the hell is going on in the rest of the world? I know. Right. I know.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, sometimes I'll scroll through their chat because I'm like, I mean, they're just kind of mean to each other. There's a lot of curse words. Like, I feel like it's too young for kids to be doing this. Yeah. One message was like, all of these emojis that was like, a peach, an eggplant, squirty water. Like very sexual. I'm like, how do these kids know that that I didn't even know? Seriously. Me neither. I learned like a couple years ago. Yeah. I mean, older siblings, are they just watching it on YouTube? Are they s where are they seeing this? I don't know. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. Even when I had said no YouTube, like Maddox would be reciting, not inappropriate, but reciting these shorts. And I'm like, dude. And he's like, I'm sorry, they're in the chat. Like people share YouTube shorts all the time in the chat.

SPEAKER_01

I think I blocked you I took the YouTube app off of Ilya's phone and then I also blocked the URL. Oh. So you can't even get on it.

SPEAKER_04

That's smart. Yeah. You have to be to so technically savvy just to have kids. Like, I don't know how to do all this shit.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I know. I'm sure they can do way more than we than we even know about. But it is, I mean. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I don't think it's a right or wrong answer, and I don't know. I mean, I don't know if you need to have a conversation about oral sex, but I just would rather like talk about things just I'm like, I'd rather you hear from me than learn what that is from your friend. It's uncomfortable, but Yeah, no, it is.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, the our boys are getting older.

SPEAKER_04

He doesn't want to talk to me about any of that. I still talk to him.

SPEAKER_01

Will he talk to Chris or no?

SPEAKER_04

He listens. He'll listen to me too, but he gets he's, you know, he's like, okay, mom, kind of a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

He used to be more. I remember when he first when I first explained sex to him, because it came up in a book that I was reading to him, actually. It was Hunger Games. No. And there was one statement, and I knew as soon as it came out of my mouth, it was basically like about maybe a prostitute. It was one line in the whole book. But I knew as soon as it came out of my mouth, I'm like, that kid's so curious, he's not missing this, and he did not. So I ended up explaining what sex was, and he was like really curious at that point. I was buying him books on puberty and like he had lots of questions. But that was years ago, and since he's kind of like clammed up from the talk.

SPEAKER_01

But I just I don't think that I don't think that our kids though, did they have the sex ed class at at school?

SPEAKER_04

They didn't, because I asked Brooks that and he said no, they never did.

SPEAKER_01

I remember my sex ed class. Oh, me too. I remember Miss Vernon. They separated the boys and the girls. We the girls went with Miss Vernon, the boys went with Miss Kearney. And I just remember I can picture it in my head to this day. I don't know why we didn't have books. I don't know why she was drawing male genitalia on the board. But I remember she drew like a profile picture of a man. And not even kidding you, maybe it was like wishful thinking. His penis was to his knees. Like that was her like depiction of drawing. Clearly, not the art teacher. She was the scientist, she was the science teacher. That's hilarious. And I was like, I remember I remember for like months like walking around and just being like, where do they put it? Like, where does it go? Does it retract inside their body? Does it roll up? Does it squish in? Do they tuck it in their butt? Like, where does it go? I finally had to ask my mom and she's like, no, honey, that's not how big they are.

SPEAKER_00

I was like, that's true.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04

All I remember sex ad is like them talking about body changes and STDs. That's it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, nope, I just remember the giant elephant penis. I don't remember anything else. I didn't learn anything else.

SPEAKER_04

No STDs? I feel like that's what's the whole purpose. Like, scare us. I don't think in elementary school they did.

SPEAKER_01

I was in elementary school. I think I was in fifth or sixth grade, sixth grade maybe.

SPEAKER_05

Did you have it in middle school again or that was it?

SPEAKER_01

I don't remember. Yeah, I don't either. I don't remember. I do remember though my chemistry. Chemistry teacher? Yeah. Like my AP chemistry teacher in high school giving us this like lesson on atom sizes. And he was like, why you know, what what is inside of a balloon that floats? And you're like, helium. Okay, what happens when helium balloons over time, what happens? And we're like, they all deflate. He's like, okay, but why are they deflating? What is happening? And we're like, you know, the cells are escaping. He's like, yeah, the cells are the, you know, the or the atoms, atom, the helium atom is smaller than the opening, like the porous, like the whatever that word is, whatever porous latex is for balloons. So eventually the helium starts to escape. And then he was like, What are condoms made out of? We're all like latex. And he's like, So just so all of you know, the AIDS virus is a one hundredth of the size of a helium atom. And he's like, I wrote letters to every single condom manufacturer. He said only one of them wrote back and said, Yeah, we're aware, but it's better than nothing, was basically their response. So I don't know if this is true. Someone can fact check us, or maybe it was just our chemistry teacher trying to scare us. It's a great way to scare though.

SPEAKER_04

That's scary as shit. Especially, I mean, it's so actually that's so interesting. I feel like when we were growing up, it was like AIDS and HIV were like terrifying and all these people were dying, and now you don't even hear about it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think we could like go down some conspiracy theory rabbit holes with okay.

SPEAKER_04

Well, we could definitely go there because I'm up against that. But even like Magic Johnson, that's who it is, right? Like he's still alive. Yeah. And so do people not die at AIDS anymore?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know, because what AIDS is you get HIV and then it progresses to AIDS, right? Yeah. I could think maybe they can treat it better.

SPEAKER_04

Is that what it is?

unknown

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04

Is that strange kind of that it was like massive and everyone was dying and then like literally you don't have to be?

SPEAKER_01

But I think nobody knew about it. So it was like outbreaks, and especially in the gay community, also.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah. Yeah, my uncle said, I mean, they know lots of people that died of AIDS.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that the the scientist who developed the testing that we used during COVID, Brian Mollis, I think was his name. Mullins, Mollis, I forget. Um he is the one that he developed that PCR testing, like what we all had to get done during COVID a million times. He invented that during the AIDS epidemic, and he won a Nobel Prize. Two tests for AIDS. Yeah, but he had always said like this testing is for research purposes only. It should not be used for diagnostic testing, which is exactly what they did during COVID. They used it for diagnostics because his concern was that I guess in the PCR testing, remember that that everyone would talk about like revolutions, like how many times you like magnify it or like revolutions of the test. So, like let's say they take your blood out, they put it in like the spinny thing, whatever. It's my my science, my layman's science talk. Spin it around as many times as you need to to separate it and then test the blood. And the more you magnify it, spin it, whatever, the more it breaks down, and I guess the more you can find in people's cells or whatever. And his thing was that he's like, I could find an AIDS virus in probably 99% of the population if you let me dissect, dissect, like you know, go deep and deeper and deeper. Wow. And that's why it said it's not good for diagnostics, it's good for research, but not to tell if someone's sick or not. Wow. And that was like what a lot of these doctors during COVID were saying is that this is not a a trustworthy test to diagnose and say whether people are positive or negative for COVID.

SPEAKER_04

So, in a way, HIV is like Epstein Bar where we all carry some trace of it?

SPEAKER_01

Essentially, that's what he's saying. But you might may or may not get sick, depending on, I guess, how much is in your body or whatever. Yeah. And yeah, again, that's what that's what a lot of people were saying during COVID, these doctors that were like, you know, we don't know what the appropriate how many times, and then the other argument was after the vaccine came out that they lowered the threshold for revolution. So, like, did that happen? I don't know. But it's funny because Fauci was a big player in the in that whole AIDS thing, too, and all that research. And this doctor used to be like, Fauci's a scam artist, like he's not a doctor, he's a talking head, like they did not like each other.

SPEAKER_04

Did you ever go to jail?

SPEAKER_01

No, of course not.

SPEAKER_04

What a joke. I also had read that those uh nasal swab tests are like full of horrible things for you, like carcinogens and shit. And I'm like, oh my god, I had to put those up my kids' nose like every other fucking week so I can get them in school. Wait, why? For where? Oh, it was so ridiculous. In California? Yeah, when we first moved here and we went to a Waldorf school, it was a good one. You made you live with the Waldorf school? It was such a joke. They had a mask, but I'm like, we moved to Florida for crying out loud, right? They had us masked, they had the masked, even outside. At one point, I was like, we are done, we're not doing this anymore. You're not wearing a mask outside. But anyway, and then if they had anything, like a stomach, like literally, Brooks would have stomach aches because he hated school so much. Oh, I bet. And then they would not let me bring it back to school unless I showed a negative COVID test.

SPEAKER_01

I get it, everyone was like super scared and no one knew what was gonna happen. But man, did we really not handle that one well. I know. I know. I mean, I remember walking by, you know, because remember, I pulled my kids out and we were homeschooling, but we live across the street from the school. And I would walk by the school in Florida, it's like 90-something degrees outside, and these kids were outside wearing masks. So stupid. And then the teachers wouldn't have masks on. And I would go, and I mean, that Mr. Mazone, the principal of the school, was probably was always like, oh my god, this lady again. He's like, Your kids don't even go here anymore. Why are you in here yelling at me about kids wearing masks? Your kids don't even go here. I was like, they're outside. Right? And I've been, you know, it was obviously a teachers' union thing. They wanted it. And I was like, but Mr. Mazzone, I was like, the teachers aren't even wearing the masks. They're outside. The kids have whatever. It's just like let the teachers wear the mask if they want to.

SPEAKER_04

Like, poor kids, you're gonna run around and play with a mask on.

SPEAKER_01

In Florida. Seriously. In the hot, hot sun. Yeah. I mean I get it. But I mean, I remember saying to my mom's friends, they're you know, they're older than she is, also, they're probably like in their 70s at the time during COVID, like late 70s, and they don't have any grandkids. They have kids that are like my age, but no grandkids. And I just remember having this conversation with them because he's a scientist, he's a biologist, and you know, super smart, but you know, it's like, I love you guys, but I'm not gonna put my kids' mental health and their life at risk on the altar of like 85-year-olds dying. Right. I just don't think that's the way the world should work. No, no. Like, why are we doing this? Not to mention the kids didn't even get sick. That's my point, is that we knew it wasn't kids were not getting sick. And I guess everyone's like, oh, but you can carry it and then you can give it to this person, this person, but I I don't know. So maybe that was like not the right way to look at it. But I remember thinking, like, well, I don't know, I guess if my dad gets it and dies, at least he lived his full life.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, my mom would say that though. She would actually say, like, listen, we're gonna we're gonna take the risk, we wanna see you guys. And if that's what happens, like I've had a great life, and like, yeah, it's totally.

SPEAKER_01

It's funny how different people look, and I remember one set of grandparents on George's side, one set of grandparents were like, no, we're keeping our distance, we want to stay away, we don't get sick, and the other ones were like your mom. Yeah. Like, no, we still want to, what are we not gonna see our kids? What if we die next week? Yeah, exactly. They die anyway, and then see them.

SPEAKER_05

We're not gonna see the grandkids.

SPEAKER_04

I think that people like the scary time. It was a scary time. It was also that I think that the hardest ones were people who are in relationships who saw it, so it was very difficult. Oh, yeah. You know, like I feel like thankfully, Chris and I released on the same page, and like you're going through this weird time, but you're in it together, and like you're navigating all this stuff. Like, gosh, I can't imagine. Like, if you were one extreme and your spouse was the other extreme.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, there was definitely a few families like that that ended up at center. And I remember, you know, talking to this one couple, and he finally, I guess, was like it all opened up and he was like, Okay, I see what she's seeing. Like, I'm understanding her her side of it, but he was like, I really thought we were gonna get divorced. Like, I thought she was gonna take the girls, tell me she was moving out because she was just like, whatever her views were, right? But they did not agree. Yeah. And yeah, a couple other families too, or even families like, you know, I have a couple moms who didn't want to vaccinate the kids, and their like the husband's family was like completely against it. And she's like, he, even though he agreed with her, yeah, and the the they had like a home birth, the kid actually wasn't vaccinated at all, so obviously we knew their stance, but she had felt like the husband didn't stick up for her enough and tell his family, like, back off, this is our decision, whatever. So she felt very isolated and alone. And I think it's still for them, she has a lot of like resentment because of it because she felt like abandoned. Totally. And I think it was two things. It was they were in New York, and New York had just taken away the um religious exemptions for vaccines. So she was already like trying to build a homeschool for the kid. So stressful. Yeah. And then and then COVID happened. I think she's just like, you know, I felt so abandoned and alone, and that's really, yeah, I think quite a few families.

SPEAKER_04

When you were raising your kids and you decided, made made your decisions on vaccines, was George just like okay with whatever you were doing, or did he have a opinion?

SPEAKER_01

He was fine with all the vaccine stuff. He was not okay with home birth. I think that scared him. Yeah. Because I wanted to have a home birth. And he was like, absolutely not. I can't like we live too far away from a hospital. What if something happens? What if, what if, what if? I'm like, okay, fine. Yeah. Um, so that I conceded on, but everything else he's yeah. Which is which thank goodness, you know. I couldn't imagine like going through a divorce and him being like, Yeah, you know, because obviously, you know, if he was like a crazy person that just wanted to get back at me, he could have been like, oh, really? We're getting divorced where our kids need to get fully vaccinated. Right. A hundred percent. And I and that would have been really difficult. But it's it's funny because like, you know, now I'm you know, dating whatever, meeting people, and I was with, you know, a friend recently, and he was like, Well, if I was a liberal, would you like not have wanted to go, like, would we not be dating? And I was like, I mean, I don't know what version of a liberal you mean, but if you're like, oh, I think kids, little kids should be able to transition and I'm all for like some of this crazy, very left stuff, then no. Right. And he kind of got like offended now that I say it's as it's it's not like it's just we would have never even gotten to this point. I would have never would I would have known. I would have just never gone on a date. Yeah. So it's not like, oh, then then all this stuff unravels and I'm like, oh, we're breaking up now. It's just I would have never gotten to that point. Because I just and I was trying to explain to him I was like, it's only because I saw how this affected some of my friends and their relationships that at this point, you know, I'm having kids with you. I have my own kids. We don't have to raise kids together, but life could get really hard. And if you have these fundamental values that are not aligned, why go down that path with somebody that isn't isn't, you know, isn't in agreement with you with certain things.

SPEAKER_04

And I think it's like that's what it is. It's like the foundational beliefs. It's not like the one, it's not really just about like the one COVID vaccine, right? It's like there's such a bigger thing of like trusting your body versus trusting the government or allowing, you know, to force you what to do. And there's like bigger layers beneath all of those things. I think to your point, there's just not enough of you wouldn't see the world the same.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And my friend sent me a post the other day, and it's just I forget what the video was in the background, but it's like, if you're not a conspiracy theorist by now, then I just think you might be stupid.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, it's crazy. Like RFK said basically multiple times now, like, oh, the people that were the conspiracy theorists are right, and we're right. It's like, okay.

SPEAKER_01

But it goes with so many things. It's funny, even with like, you know, the cloud seeding, whatever. And everyone's like, that doesn't exist. That's not real. Those are just clouds, clouds. And now you're like, okay, well, states are now banning it. So it clearly it exists. You can't ban something that doesn't exist. Right. It's wild.

SPEAKER_04

I think that people it just like opens up so many things and people are scared to of course. You know, and I get that.

SPEAKER_01

But but I think that that's also like the idea with vaccines. Like, I don't everyone, I think, should be able to make their own decisions. I and everyone that tries to just say, oh, they're completely safe. And then try to tell them, like, well, there is a fact, there is a fund set up by the government that gives money to people whose children or that, you know, siblings, family members, whatever, have been injured or died from vaccines.

SPEAKER_04

And it's like billions of dollars in set out. It's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_01

So you can't say that they're completely safe. I mean, is there an argument that can be had that is worth, you know, if you think that they're saving humanity and saving our general health? Okay, fine. Right. But you can't say that they're fully safe and active. That's very true. Because we know that that people are being paid because their child died.

SPEAKER_04

100%. But I think once you like go down this road, you can't unknow the things. And it's scary because then you have to be brave enough to go against what you're told to do. And that is always the like what if camp, right? Like, what if I don't do what my doctor says and my kid dies from whooping cough or something? And you would never forgive yourself. And so it's really like a scary place to be when you're like, I'm not going along with the river. And so I think people are just afraid to even put their foot in because you once you know, you can't unknow. I know. And once you dig, you're like, fuck. Like, none of it even makes sense. Like it doesn't even make sense half of it.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I think I remember being at one of our like, you know, school mom events and saying, like, I'm I'm in such awe of like these mothers that are here that came to this decision on their own. Like that their friends and family don't talk to them or they didn't vaccinate their kids, and you know, they didn't grow up with that. I grew up that way. Like I was born at home. I was never vaccinated. My sister had her kids at home. They're not like to me, it was just normal. It's not like I had to learn this on my own. Yeah. So when I meet people that, you know, that you know, like you were like, okay, no, I came from a different place for sure. Yeah. Because I remember you also had experience with the vaccines.

SPEAKER_04

And that's actually what got Chris and I on the same board. Because prior to that, like my just my mother's intuition would be like screaming. Like, this doesn't make sense to give a child multiple shots at once. Like, we're overloading their tiny little bodies. And like, why am I giving my newborn baby a vaccine that is like for sexually transmitted diseases and needles? Like none of it logically, and I and thankfully, like I had like the intuition to like look into it and like go on down this path on my own because none of this was ever, this was not the way I was raised. Yeah. But uh, and I think Chris would kind of push back a little bit, understandably, like this is just the way it was, and we were vaccinated, even though we were not vaccinated, like our kids are vaccinated. It's not even comparable. Um, but yeah, when Brooks, Brooks had a really scary vaccine reaction when he was four or five years old, and like that was like the one thing that we were like, okay.

SPEAKER_01

What vaccine was it? What did he do?

SPEAKER_04

It was his fourth prevnar, which is pneumococcal.

unknown

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And he did fine with the other ones, but essentially, you know, you go down. I mean, first of all, I'll tell the story because it's worth telling, but um, I mean, it's so interesting. I think that like I so believe in people's intuition, and like my sons are very like tapped in, even though Brooks doesn't want to be tapped in, he thinks it's weird, but he's always been very tapped in. And so I remember taking him to the doctor, and he literally was trying to escape the room. Like I had to hold him physically too. Oh my gosh. I know, horrible. Like, literally, I'm gonna cry probably say this. But I look at that and I'm like, he knew, right? It's like intuitively he knew. But anyway, it was like a morning appointment, and um we got one single shot. I never let them do like combined. Like, we did not do combined. We were on a delayed schedule because I didn't know anyone that didn't vaccinate their kids. Yeah. And even though my intuition kept screaming at me, I'm like, I don't, I just didn't know there was another way. So I did the best I could. We did delayed. Anyway, um, we go home, and Brooks has always been like a very, I read a book about your spirited child, like always very spirited. And um, and literally, like he wanted to sit on the couch. And I'm like, this is like not normal. Yeah. And he had a friend, Jack, that he played with like every single day, lived across the street. And so I got him outside, even though he did not want to go outside, he got out, I go outside to play Jack. And within like five minutes, Brooks had this like massive meltdown. And his mom, Jack's mom, was like, what is wrong with him? And I knew I'm like, he just had a vaccine, like, he's just not himself.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So we go home, and like literally, he wanted to do nothing all day. He wanted to sit on the couch, he wanted to watch his iPad. And I gave him a lot of space. And the scariest part was the next day. I don't remember the morning. Chris was traveling, he traveled all the time. It wasn't like a weird thing that he was traveling, but he was gone. I don't remember the morning, really, except I got Brooks to school. And he had like a half day preschool thing, and Chris and I went to pick him up together. And I'm gonna cry. And I watched Chris walked up to him. I stayed back with Maddox, and I was maybe like I don't know, like 30, 40 or yards away. And I watched Brooks stare at his dad like he did not know him. It was horrified. And so Chris like came up to me and he's like, What is what is wrong with him? And so whatever, we get in the car, like put on Brooks' favorite song, and he's staring out the window. Like I'm like, this is like what it looks like when your child is like slipping into autism. Like, like this isn't a child. But thankfully, thankfully, we got him on a detox program. Like I just gave him activated charcoal that day. I got him on this series called Onda, a homeopathic remedy, the next day. And uh he got his vaccine on a Thursday. And by Monday, like his fog was lifting, like he was like coming out. He also had a rash like down his entire arm, but like the rash was like the least of my concerns.

SPEAKER_06

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But yeah, and so that was the point where I'm like, we're fucking done. Yeah. And Chris was like, Yeah, I'm good with that. And then when you do research, you're like, oh well, Chris has the methylation defect. Like he's got, um, and so what the doctor said was basically like Brooks' little body just couldn't keep up. Like he was okay with the first three, but the fourth one set him over the edge.

SPEAKER_01

And like But I thought, didn't you say that one of the doctors was like, oh, he's just mad that Chris is traveling?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that lady, I went to kill her. We took them to the office on Friday, the day after. And that lady tells me that he was mad. Brooks was just reacting because Chris was traveling. Because I was I went in there because I'm like, you need to report this to bears, bars, however you say it. Yeah. The vaccine adverse events um reporting system. And she's she was like, No, there's nothing wrong with him. He's mad because your husband's traveling. Yeah. I'm like, I was literally, this is when your mama bear comes out, like, I want to fucking kill you. Like every part of me and my maternal instinct. And I left so angry and crying. And Chris was like, like, obviously, we'd never go back, go back there, but she completely refused to see it. And I reported it myself because I'm like, she's not gonna report it.

SPEAKER_01

But I was like, for other people. I thought that um doctors had to report it. She wouldn't.

SPEAKER_04

You can self-report it. You can self-report interesting. Yeah, you can't.

SPEAKER_01

For anyone that doesn't know, it's a very interesting website to look at. You can look it up. It's called Veyors and it and it's V-A-E-R. Yeah. And vaccine adverse, what does the E stand for? Effects research. Yeah. So you can scary thing is when you look at it and then the year where the COVID vaccine came out, it is like the chart just skyrockets up. Oh, I'm so many. Um, but they say it's so under underrated too that they estimate that there's like 10% of all vaccine injuries are actually reported.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, mine's such a good example. Like she refused to report it. Like, if I didn't know I could do it myself, it would have gone unreported. Like, I'm sure there's thousands of stories like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. There's another website, actually, if anyone has any interest and wants to go look look it up. There, if you Google Veyors and like COVID or something after, there's a another website that basically like took all of that Veyor's info and breaks it down just for the COVID injuries by lot number. So people can you can look up your vaccine lot number from COVID and see how many injuries and deaths per lot number there were.

SPEAKER_04

That's scary though. My mom ended up getting COVID vaccinated, partially because we, Chris and I, Chris got really sick with COVID, and my parents were like, this is scary. Like if he got this sick, like, and so they end up getting it. My mom's like, I don't even want to know anything else because like I don't want to go down this mental loop, like, what do I do about it now? I already did it, you know?

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, there's so many, and there's another mom friend in our in our class, yeah. That their little boy who was the same age, I think he was four, and was like normal talking. Yeah, and and it's funny because the dad is like, I would always was like, oh, people that you know claim that you know vaccines do this to your kids or cause autism or whatever. He's like, I always just thought people were, you know, crazy. Totally. And yeah, their son is non-verbal autistic now. And I just feel like I had always said, and you know, obviously, like pre-COVID, I would have these conversations with people because you know, kids aren't vaccinated, it's not just a COVID thing. And I just think the idea of telling a mother, like this makes me cry, like, like to your point, your story, like telling a mother that that they they don't know their child. Right. Like, wait, so you you're telling me that my kid who I've gave birth to, nursed for how long, spent every day of their life with, and I'm saying there's something wrong, he changed. Right. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, you're wrong. He's fine. 100%. Like, how can you say that to a mother?

SPEAKER_04

And by the way, that lady was with him once. That's it. I thought we had one appointment with that lady ever. She did not know my son at all. And I, yeah, that's I literally wanted to strangle her. I'm like, like, how dare you?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And you know, it's like people can discredit all you want, but when it's you and your family and you know, like, there's no discrediting. And it's like if people would just be open-minded to listen.

SPEAKER_01

I'd heard someone say once, like, I don't have to set my children on fire to keep you warm. And I always like think about that idea. And I don't know, I guess I get the other side, like, oh, it's for the betterment of humanity if that's really what you believe the vaccines are doing. But I feel like that's okay to say in a general term, but when it's your child that dies, are you really gonna still think that? No.

SPEAKER_04

And it never really made sense to me. I'm like, I c I mean, I understand herd humid herd immunity. However, if you believe the vaccine works, your child should still be protected. So my child should not be a threat to you. Yeah. Like, I'm like, it just and the idea that I'm going to I mean, yeah, the the idea that I'm gonna then vaccinate my child again so that it's saving him, saving someone else, but at his expense. Like, I mean, my child literally, like I saw it, I watched with my own eyes, like that kid was slipping away. Like there was no way he could have survived and he would have been normal after another one.

SPEAKER_01

And I also feel like anyone that if you look at the timeline, and it always is this way you follow the money. Yeah, look at the money. Yeah, if you follow the timeline, 1986, when they did not have to do, you know, they lost, you know, no immune, you like they've immune from any kind of damages, yeah, the vaccine companies, and then that's when we skyrocket and we start deciding that kids need 70 some vaccines instead of the six that they used to have. Right. The last Aaron Siri um podcast, did you listen to the Joe Rogan one that he did recently a couple weeks ago? Um, he's just so good. Yeah, he's I mean, he's so he's I actually sent it to a friend of mine who was like, What's all your vaccine talk? What are you talking about? He's like very smart, smart man, and I was like, Here, listen to this. This guy really does a good job of explaining it. And it's funny, because you know, Joe Rogan sometimes is like, yeah, then this, and he's all over the place. And Aaron's like, okay, well, let me finish answering your first question, and then I'll go like he's so his brain is so organized and he talks through it so well. And and my friend that I had sent it to, he was like, Yeah, he's like, send me more stuff like that. That I can like process and understand, like, or maybe there is this isn't everything isn't what we thought it was.

SPEAKER_04

Right, yeah. That's actually the good thing you realize in in different people talking about the same thing, right? Yeah, because some people might hear our story and totally blow it off because they want science and they want facts and like that's what Aaron Seary has. And there you go, right? And so, in someone else, like me, I'm a more emotional feeling type person. Like, these stories matter because the more we share them, the more that you understand that this this is actually happening.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I just think it's it's interesting, it's like the you know, we're not trying to say you're not allowed to vaccinate your child if you want to vaccinate your child, but that's what the other way is going. Like saying you have to do it. And that's not it. Like, we shouldn't be mandating any of this.

SPEAKER_04

I feel the same way in general, like my body, my decision, right? Yeah. Like you you don't mandate, you don't get the right to tell me what I can and can't do, right?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, then there's so many good books out there to read. I mean, I know dissolving illusions is like the one everyone says to read. That one's tough though. I didn't read that one actually. I mean, it's a lot of vaccine books. Charts and science and whatever, and it's a good one. But I feel like it's a tough one to get through. Yeah. But it is so so much of the history of like showing you when a vaccine was introduced versus the true decline of the disease versus when the vaccine came out.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, it's interesting because like by the, you know, with Ashton, it was like I said to Kristen, like, listen, like, we can go through every single vaccine and we will weigh the risks and the benefits. Yeah. And if there's something you feel very strongly after we go down that road, then like I would be open to it, right? But like we couldn't find a single one that thought that the benefit outweighed the risk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not at all. I mean, I when my kids were born, we were living in New Jersey, like in the middle of nowhere. Um, it was before we in between New York and Miami, we we went, we went back and uh, you know, you know, we lived near where my parents are, which is in the middle of nowhere. So especially I'm like, oh, there's nobody around. I don't need to vaccinate my kids. Who are they gonna get sick from? And then we moved to Miami. There was part of me that was like, ugh, uh this place is a little grimy.

SPEAKER_00

Do I need to get vaccines for these kids?

SPEAKER_01

What's happening here? Yeah, yeah. But we never ended up doing it. But I did have a friend of mine who there was a doctor from South Carolina that would come down here and give the vaccines like nasal, like the through, you know, like but you have to do a few.

SPEAKER_04

Homeopathy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

There's actually we've we did with Ashton, I did it's homeoprophylaxis, and it's basically homeopathy uh as a preventative medicine for as a vaccine. And I did do that with Ashton, which for what for which almost I did like almost all of them, but I just my acupuncturist had said her child had whooping cough, and she's like it was really scary, and so I was definitely like very adamant about. But I think I did know homeopathy for I mean, not I didn't do an amazing, like you're supposed to do a very specific schedule, like it was it was my version, so a little bit flexible, but um but even now like we're going to Africa and we just started on homeopathy, and I mean homeopathy is really hard to understand, but like the studies show it's like 80 to 90 percent effective, which is as effective, if not more, than just about any medication.

SPEAKER_01

So, what vaccines are you doing the homeopathy for for Africa?

SPEAKER_04

So yellow fever is what we started. Um interestingly, we are only going to Kenya, and if we were going to another country, you're required to then get yellow fever vaccine.

SPEAKER_01

That's right, because Michael just went and he was like, oh, what am I supposed to do here? I don't think you can say you have an egg allergy and then they can't make you get it because there's egg in a I was gonna say, I'm glad I didn't have to figure out a workaround because I'm not sure what we would have done.

SPEAKER_04

But since we're only going to Kenya, we're not required to have any, but we're still doing just homeopathy for malaria, yellow fever fever, hepatitis, and I think typhoid.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. I un I understand the idea that if you are living somewhere, going somewhere different, where different diseases exist that your body has not been able to build up immunity to. Like that idea, I understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But even then, like most people don't even know that homeopathy would be an option for that. Like let's not start there, you know? Yeah. Like zero side effects. It's the energetic property of the medicine. It's like, I mean, yeah. But that's just not mainstream, it's very inexpensive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no one's making money off of that.

SPEAKER_04

No, not really. I got four of those for like 80 bucks.

SPEAKER_01

It covers our whole family.

SPEAKER_00

Your whole family.

SPEAKER_01

There you go. You're set. I know, right? I mean, it is interesting though, being at a school that you're not like the black. 100% so many people have similar views. And not just from the vaccine thing, like the phones and just so many other yeah, food, the technology. Conscious parenting. Yeah. It makes me a little nervous to think that when they end up going to high school.

SPEAKER_04

I think that the thing is, I'm like, I feel really actually really good about it. Cause I feel like this is the thing Brooks and Giacomo are now 13. Brooks will be turned 14 very soon. I almost feel like it's crazy, but I'm like, the foundation has already been laid.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Not to say, like, you know, you know, he's gonna mess up, he's a kid, but like he's got a really strong foundation, and we're still gonna be there to walk him through like and navigate.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But he's gonna go into the real world, and that's gonna be a little bit shocking, probably.

SPEAKER_01

But I feel like what do you think with the phone? You think you'll get it to hit for him before high school?

SPEAKER_04

That's our plan this summer before high school. Yeah. Yeah. Yours?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was hoping 16, but Jock was like, Ma, that is so embarrassing.

SPEAKER_04

I don't feel like we can really send him to high school without a phone.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no, no. Yeah. Well, even like recently when I got them new Apple watches for Christmas, because that's how I track them and talk to them. Um, I guess I don't know. I guess you don't need a phone number anymore. Apple just does it off of you can just use your like iCloud, and I don't know how you can make phone calls because they don't have a phone, but I don't know. But anyway, they were like, Yeah, you don't need the phone numbers, you don't have to pay ATT for a phone line anymore. And he was like, Mom, no, I need a phone number. I can't go like give a girl my email address. It's bad enough I don't have a phone. I have to at least pretend like I have one and give her my phone number. And I was like, all right, fine.

SPEAKER_04

Totally get it. Oh yeah, I mean, I feel like for high school, it's like you don't, you know. But even that, I was like, don't think you're gonna just like be on social media and like you have a free-for-all on your phone. Like you get something on it. And I think you probably need Snapchat.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I think I've already have decided that he can have Snapchat because that's just how the kids communicate. But I did tell him he can't have it and that he has to do a presentation for me as to why he should be allowed to have it, the dangers of it. Well, that's smart. We should do the same thing. And, you know, I forget what else my parameters were for that project. This is not for another year. So like, okay, then you have to present to me why you should be able to have it and all the risks, so I know that you know the risks of having it. Yeah, I like that. And then we had another, you know, I had a conversation with Jock Moe, I think, a year or so ago when I was hearing about all those like sex tortion stuff. And I talked to him about it again recently, especially this AI stuff is nuts. I'm like, you Jockmo, I was like, I don't care if you are live FaceTiming a girl. Yeah, it doesn't mean it's a girl. I know. There are live filters, like you, and then of course I just had to get like very graphic and launchy with him. And I was like, if you're okay with some fat naked old man pervert in their basement jerking off, thinking about you, then fine. He's like, Mom, it's so disgusting. I was like, that's what it can be.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

It's like you there are plenty of girls that you know live in Miami. We live in Miami. You don't need to go and like talk with random girls on the internet.

SPEAKER_04

No, I mean they need to know. That's like a real thing. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01

But then it's funny because I do remember like being young and going up to my parents' room. I was made probably in high school, and like going on like AOL chats and like sex talking with random men.

SPEAKER_04

Random? Totally. Oh, I would only do I would only like flirt with people I knew. Where do you find these random? They just drop up.

SPEAKER_01

AOL chat. That's what we grew up with. It's so old. Oh my god. AOL chat rooms. Wow. Totally. That guy could have easily been like, except I never would have been like, oh yeah, here's my address.

SPEAKER_04

And they're not like sending pictures and like there the technology wasn't there. So it was.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sure there was like a camera on the computer. So I feel like I remember there was for some like game. But I would have never been like in my parents' room. That's the problem with the little devices everywhere though, too. Is that you feel similar to like, you know, wrapping it back to the beginning of our conversation, the guys that used to go in a back room to jerk off because you can't watch the porn on your TV in the living room. Right. Maybe the same helping. Like I wasn't gonna be taking naked pictures of my parents' computer in their room. So true. But if you have a little device in your hand, the privacy of your own house, then maybe you would.

SPEAKER_04

I keep telling my kids the same thing, like you never put that out there. You don't know who you're talking to, and you don't know what they would do it, do with it, and it could ruin your life with one bad decision. Like, I think they're getting sick of me talking about it, but I'm gonna keep talking about it.

SPEAKER_01

Like they don't even care. No, because it's it's real, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04

It's crazy anyway, because uh one of Chris's friends like basically created this AI influencer, and they look like I mean they should have. Oh, Chris, he was showing it something. Oh, it's crazy, right? Looks 100% human. And so, we've been talking forever, huh? Yeah. Uh we'll wrap up. So Chris was like playing with Claude to make an AI influencer. Yeah. And he makes this girl who's beautiful. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like your AI wife. Yeah. And then I said, I started thinking about it though, and I said to him, I was like, think about how weird it is that you actually could get to the point where you create a person through AI. Yeah. Who's so complimentary and like you have a relationship with her? And he said, he's like, actually, the craziest part is there's even like robot, basically, that you can give, you could literally like create an AI character, assign it to like a yes, and you could essentially be married to a bot. You could have a relationship with a bot. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Wasn't there a movie, Her or something with uh Joaquin Phoenix? And I'm so bad at movies, so yeah. I feel like there was something along those lines, but it's not far off, and it's I mean I just think like just making sure that our kids are still like just humanly connected. Yeah, so true. To your friends, yeah, to us, like not letting that slip away.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, 100%. For all of us, that's actually what it comes back to, because even if you spend too much time on AI, your like brain starts to get fried. I feel like it's like zaps you. So it's like go be in nature, have a conversation with a human, hug somebody, like go back to like our our I know, but it is so helpful, it's ridiculous. Oh, it's amazing. I love it too, but like you have to balance it with like real life.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like now, at least still, especially with like the work that I do, I still have to give it like me, yeah, my brain to be able to give back what I need. It has not nearly gotten to the point where I like I've never once gotten anything out of and been like, oh, this is perfect, needs no edits. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm always shrinking it. So it hasn't, you know, at least for me, it hasn't put me out of my own job yet. No, but I mean it is learning us, right? It's wild. It definitely is. It's getting good. All right, I'm hungry, yeah? I know. That was a um we over here. That was a good one. Yeah. No, that was a good one. Bye, friends.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We're really glad you're here. You can follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, and we're on social at Don't Tell the Kids with a bunch of other stores. Hang in there, Mamas. See you next week.