Don't Tell the Kids

Don't Tell the Kids... The Phone Isn't Actually Theirs

• Melanie Hunter & Siobhan Lee

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0:00 | 38:39

Okay mama, pour the coffee and lock the bathroom door, because this week we're going THERE: kids and phones. Did you know teens are averaging 7+ hours of screen time a day — and that's not counting schoolwork? SEVEN. HOURS. We're breaking down what they're actually doing on there (spoiler: it's not knitting tutorials), why the algorithm is basically a stranger whispering in your kid's ear, and the genius advice that changed how we think about it all: never give the phone as a gift. It's a loaner. It's YOUR phone they're borrowing. Game changer.

We also get into earning screen time vs. the free-for-all, why no teenager knows anyone's phone number anymore (it's all Snapchat, apparently), the lawsuits piling up against Meta, and a slight detour into dirt bikes, Gilmore Girls, and whether narwhals prove unicorns are real. Look — we don't have the answers. But we're holding the line together, one screen-time battle at a time.

Hide in your car and press play. And obviously... don't tell the kids.

SPEAKER_02

Need a break from your endless to-do list? Welcome to Don't Tell the Kids. We're two busy moms sharing the real, messy, funny conversations about life and motherhood. I'm Mel, mom of three, wellness nerd, an entrepreneur, figuring it out as I go.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm Siobhan, single mom of two, usually barefoot, and always saying yes to life. No advice, just honest conversations, on and off the mic. So grab your coffee, hide out in your car, and don't tell the kids.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Hello, hello. Another week. What's going on? Us talking. Nonsense.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for being here. But we at least came prepared. Last week we started talking about my company and went on a tangent. Shocking about social media.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but it was good. And sometimes when I'm at like I'm trying to like learn because we don't know much about doing podcasts. And sometimes I just feel like people just ramble and go like more deep into things. Sometimes I feel like we just like skim and change subjects constantly, which I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I'm also okay with exploring more options. Except who am I kidding? We're gonna start talking about social media and phones and end up talking about like whether or not drugs or something unicorns or related to norwals or something. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_02

I love that yours went very fairy tale and mine went straight to our. What did you say? I said porn and drugs. You said porn and drugs, unicorns and narwhals.

SPEAKER_01

It can't be any different. There you go. That is basically us in a nutshell. He's a secret gangster. I live on planet, I don't know what.

SPEAKER_02

Lola land. But it's so fun. And you're very happy, so I think we should keep you there.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes they do think about that though. Like, please do not talk about narwhals and unicorns being related. Oh fuck. Why are unicorns thought to be so like elusive and strange? There's an animal that exists that looks just like it, but it's an underwater sea creature.

SPEAKER_02

That's a fair point, but I'm a little bit concerned of when you're spending your time and mental capacity to debate this with yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Like you have nothing else than you know a giraffe or a pelatypus? Why is that any more strange than a horse with a horn?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, God, I did not expect to go here. I have nothing to say about this.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not prepared for this podcast.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, would you like to research your unicorns and we can talk about that next week? No, but I would like to touch on, which I think is interesting, and then we can go to phones and social media, which maybe make goes to maybe reasons that it's actually kind of interesting because you can't get like real news on the news anymore. So maybe this will tie in. But there's this guy who's like a scientist, and it's really interesting because he looks at animals that live current day, and if you were to find their skeletons underground, you would never be able to guess that's what the animal looks like. Oh. So there's this whole like thought process on dinosaurs and what we assumed they looked like, or we assumed that they, you know, didn't have fur and they were scaly and mean and whatever, but he then takes like their skeletons and draws completely different animals around them, and it's hilarious. Is this one guy? It's like I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02

And is he actually like an archaeologist? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. He's like Yes, it's like challenging the narrative, kind of. Like, is this really where they were and what happened? But what I, you know, again, I think I found it on Instagram, so who knows? So it's definitely reputable. Yes, 100%. 100% true.

SPEAKER_02

That and Gerald the Dolphin and whoever else lived under the sea.

SPEAKER_01

See, this is where my algorithm brings me. We talked last week about your algorithm just sending you things that they know that it's like a yes man. They're like, Yeah, lady, you believed in Gerald? We got way more shit for you. For more fake news, please, please tune in next week. The don't tell Gerald the Dolphin. You're definitely gonna believe the dinosaurs were big, furry purple.

SPEAKER_02

Unicorns 100% exist. Tell me. Oh, God. Well, good thing we get our news from reputable sites. I actually consume zero news, so I actually don't know shit about anything.

SPEAKER_01

But I know. The problem is to tell like what do we even think is reputable these days? Not when we look at things that are reputable and like, what?

SPEAKER_02

No, it's but it's so true. But to tie that in, we started talking about social media and kids and all of that. And so I pulled up some stats, which it's interesting because all stats are not the same, right? So like take this with a grain of salt, because as I read, like they will change slightly, but it's so wild. Like according to ABC News, teens spend an average of seven hours and twenty two minutes on their phones a day for leisure and entertainment, and to entertainment, not counting schoolwork. Now, Common Sense Media says that's widely repeated, but the CDC data says that during a period from 2021 to December of 2023, one half of teenagers aged 12 to 17 had four hours or more of daily screen time, and about 41% spend over eight hours every single day. Eight hours? Yeah. The average was seven hours and twenty-two minutes of entertainment. That did not include schoolwork.

SPEAKER_01

Isn't that wild? I mean, just the yes, the screen thing alone. And then recently I've been wondering, because I don't even like well, it really came about because I have this hilarious, amazing friend of mine who we literally have a website called The Galaxy Needs More Rebels, and we sell t-shirts that says the Galaxy Needs More Rebels. Why am I just hearing about this? And how long have you been doing this? Not long, maybe like a year. Only because Chris was like obsessed with it, and she's like, we need t-shirts. We need t-shirts that say this. I'm like, all right, fine, I'll build a website in my spare time, whatever. Yes. So we have a URL, the Galaxy needs more rebels.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, do you promote them anywhere?

SPEAKER_01

No. I've never even heard of Rebels. She just wanted a website that she could buy her own t-shirts. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. But anyway, she is the best, and I love her. And she has this like contraption, I don't even know what it's called, device that looks like a small pillow. Maybe it's eight inches in diameter. It's a circle, it's a little pillow, and then from the pillow is like a stand and your phone goes in it. Okay. So you don't never like touching your phone. Like she has her phone, and it's weighted, it's like a weighted pillow. So you put it on the couch, TV, whatever, and she'll like scroll and touch the screen when she has to scroll, but she doesn't have her phone in her hands. And you know, she's the friend that has like, yeah, EMF specialists come to the house and moving around rooms, and she won't even sleep in her bedroom in her house anymore because the EMF, she sleeps in her son's room, like, you know, really is cognizant of all of that. And that's another thing I think about with these kids on the phone. Not to mention, I've also secretly videotaped her walking down the street holding it and talking on it. So she always has it. It's hilarious. She holds, she brings it in her arm, and she'll just talk on the phone and she holds the pillow. And I see her walking down the street, and I love to record her and then said it to herself. Said it to her. Anyway, there's that too. Oh, 100%. EMF. We're in like a microwave. Yeah, forget about the like fact your brain is staring at all day. I think there's also like physical things.

SPEAKER_02

Well, there's so many levels of that, right? There's the EMFs, there's the fact that like, what are those kids doing for eight hours like on social media that's mindless, like zero attention spans, zero human interaction? Like, that's like there's so many.

SPEAKER_01

I would like to see a breakdown. Like of that stat, what on the average are they doing? Are they Snapchatting? Are they on like what are they doing?

SPEAKER_02

Well, there I there is some more data actually. Like, I can I can have a break it down.

SPEAKER_01

And regardless of what they're doing, that is a very long time to be like solitaire sitting staring at a screen.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It said that boys are more more likely doing video games, but girls are more more likely doing social media. And the number does go up generally as they get older, but still. I mean, actually, boys load up on gaming and video. Teen boys are averaging nine hours and sixteen minutes of media use. Well, girls are averaging eight hours and two minutes. Come on. Yes, but girls are on of that eight hours, girls are on social media, and boys are gaming. Isn't that wild? That is wild. That's why we have like rules though of like my boys have to earn time. It's like so annoying. And actually, I made this whole chart, like that the kids have to do these things for the summer. Like they have to do chores, they have to do like schoolwork, they have to get outside, they have to exercise, and they have to do all this stuff before they get time. And after they do all of the stuff, which when I first made it, it I it comes up to like three hours of stuff they have to do to earn two hours of whatever they want on electronics, right? Anyway, and I had such interesting comments from people, and some people are like, oh, it's like so much work, and like, you know, like who's actually following it and whatever. And and I'm like, yes, and I just don't know how else, like, I cannot leave my kids unmonitored when it comes to electronics. Like they would literally choose that over everything, every single day.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I get people's comments where you're like, oh, how much time is that taking you to monitor it? And fine, maybe it's not always like 100% science, whatever, but at least you're instilling those values in them that this isn't something that should just be a free-for-all. Right. You whether you're earning it or at least realizing it's something that you you're you're basically and telling them they have to earn it. You're in some way telling them it's a privilege and it's not something you should be doing all day. Otherwise, they just let you do it all day. 100%.

SPEAKER_02

That's the other thing. I tell them all the time, like it is a privilege that we have the right to take at any time. Yeah. And so it is earned, not expected. But it's so hard to navigate this.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I feel like I mean kind of going back, you know, we touched on it last week where I was like, Oh my, you know, my dad says you used to come home from school and watch TV and the difference between watching TV in a room with your family. And you know, I always joke because Ilya and I have been like, you know, watching Gilmore girls for God knows how long, ever since our friend introduced it to us because she lives in Kent, Connecticut, which is the little town that I guess the show is based on. That makes sense. And I'd never watched it growing up, even though I think it was like our era growing up, right?

SPEAKER_02

It was like I think it was I don't actually remember how it was.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe a little younger, like maybe we were a little too old when it came out. I don't remember, but I never had seen it before. And so we all like started watching it. And now it's just one of those shows where my kids probably like, why do we watch the same show over and over? Like we don't watch other shows. We watch like the Alcomo watch that he well, his friend who lives in Connecticut is a boy, so we all started watching it together, and I think he was younger and he was it now, he's like, Mom, seriously. I was thinking it cannot be like nothing. I said they do nothing, and then they're like, fine. Yeah, yeah. But um, uh, I don't even remember what I was saying. Oh, the thing that the girls are on social media, so it's like, what does that mean? Is it Instagram? Is it TikTok? Or is it like, are they Snapchatting each other, or is that all combined? Because do they consider Snapchat social media? I consider that more like a messaging.

SPEAKER_02

It would still be considered because it's well, I guess this was mostly screen time, first of all.

SPEAKER_01

So to break that up, that would be that's I remember being in high school and you know, I didn't live in an area that you could easily like walk to a friend's house, you know. I didn't have my driver's license. Your parents would have to drive you somewhere. The nearest friend was, you know, 10 minutes away in a car. And it's before I had my driver's license, obviously. But spending hours on the phone. Oh, hours talk on the phone for hours too. Yeah. And then three-way each other in, and then you call this other person, and then like secretly covering up the little hang-up sensors on my cordless phone, so I'd pretend like I'd hang up when my dad came in the room and secretly pick it back up again, and like, you know, all the tricky things to keep staying on the phone. Hours.

SPEAKER_02

I used to talk on the phone for hours too. And to your point, I used to watch TV a a lot when I was a kid. Like, I used to watch literally Gilligan's Island before school. And when we get home from school, I remember I'd come home from school and I would get like a bag of Doritos and sit on the couch and eat Doritos and watch TV. But it wasn't like the rest of the night, right? My parents probably gave me leeway, and then it was like, you know, turn the TV off. But those were the only things that we were dealing with was talking on the phone, which you're at least talking to a person and you're not in front of a screen. Yeah. Or like those harmless TV shows.

SPEAKER_01

Well you've got to think it's one of those, is it one of those things like you know, every generation thinks the next generation is doomed.

SPEAKER_02

100%. And I don't think we're doomed. I think it's just an interesting time to have kids because I think that if if this is the average, most parents are probably not really monitoring it that much. I'd imagine. I don't think you say like, oh, you get eight hours today on your phone. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

So But I feel like don't you I mean, I have so many friends that are like, oh, I wish I didn't give them the phone. Or I wish they weren't on it so much. And I have a friend of mine where I was like, then don't let them. Like I finally kind of got so annoyed at the conversation where I was like, all right, you you keep telling me you wish your kid wasn't on the phone as much. He's 13. Take it away. Right. That's your job. Yeah. If you were like, oh, I wish they weren't smoking weed so much, yeah. Like, or I wish they weren't anything. It's even if it's something not illegal, I wish they weren't eating so much candy, I wish they weren't, or whatever. Like, that's our job until they're 18 to not let them do the things that you don't want them to do. I agree.

SPEAKER_02

And first of all, though, it's interesting because our kids don't have phones yet. Yes. And as they get older, you're gonna lose we're gonna lose control over that. Like they're when they're not here and they have a phone in their pocket, like we have zero control over that. I mean, maybe not zero. Maybe not zero. 100%. I was gonna say we will definitely have controls also. But I think it is a is like a losing battle over time that at 13 I would imagine. I mean, I think the other thing is my one of our friends who has older kids told us they're like, when you get your kid a phone, don't give it as a present because then it's theirs. Like instead, it's this is a phone that I basically am letting you use. But this is my phone. I have the right to do whatever I want with it. Yeah. And I like that because I think that it that is a different difference because we will have all sorts of parameters when when we get down that road. And that road is coming.

SPEAKER_01

I know.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I was planning on waiting one more year, but like as you know, Brooks might end up at a different school this year. And I said to Chris, I was like, I don't really know that we can send him to a different school with to meet new friends without a phone. Like, I don't know that we can do that.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I've heard my friends that have older kids are like, kids don't even text message anyway. 100% everybody's Snapchat.

SPEAKER_02

I've heard that I've heard the same thing for my friend.

SPEAKER_01

I maybe we feel like broken records, but if you're not having the conversation and not telling them like pictures don't disappear. You can think on Snapchat, this picture is gonna go away, but you can screenshot it. Yeah. Which again, I think we've talked about this before, but why doesn't it have the same you can prevent people from screenshotting on apps. Like Raya, that dating app, you can't screenshot.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. That's a good question. You would think that they would have controls over that. But I mean, that's you know, I think that you have to have the conversation because dumb shit can get snapped and then you know somebody takes a screenshot of it and it's really damaging. But I would say, you know, the majority of the time they're just using that as their way to message friends for whatever reason. So I think that if you have a I I don't think you can keep kids off of it nowadays. I mean you can, but at what expense, right? Like literally, my my niece was like, I don't know how anyone's phone number, like no one messages. Everyone snaps. Like she's like, if you take away Snapchat, like I literally cannot reach out to any of my friends.

SPEAKER_01

How do they call each other though? How do they not call?

SPEAKER_02

Seriously, I don't know that they do. I think they snap all their messages and they meet up, which is just wild. Do you think they actually meet though? She does. I mean, I don't know. I mean, she lives in Ohio and I don't I'm not there all the time, but I definitely know she does hang out with friends and like they'll go to the mall or go whatever.

SPEAKER_01

So they do meet up. I mean, I had a friend I have a friend of mine who was telling me that her son, I think he was like a senior in high school, maybe, and she's like, none of these kids are having sex. But they don't know how to have like relationships like we used to have. They just text, it's all on the phone, they don't know how to like be with each other in person. She's like, I think that's why these kids are crazy pent-up assholes. They just need to go have sex and get it out of them.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, at least human connection. Like, we need human connection.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, also I think the dangers of you talking on the phone to your girlfriend for three hours a day is different than a kid being on the phone and connecting and meeting, you know, I know we've talked about it before, but you know, we had a friend this recently happened to, where it's like they go. There's traps out there. There's all sorts of people that are trying to either hurt you, get your mind- I was just reading I just was reading this, I don't know where this was. I actually took a screenshot of it because I was so like horrified, and I was gonna show it to Giacomo, and then I was like, is this like just too much? This where where did he live? Missouri. 15-year-old boy in Missouri. He basically got like went to go meet a girl, thought he was going to meet a girl. Instead, it was uh two uh boys, 18-year-olds, that lured him, I don't know where, and killed him. Oh my god. Horrible. Yeah, killed him. And yeah, they they tracked his location, they planned the attack, they took a second vehicle to corner him. Like they planned it. They knew him then. I don't know if they knew him. He was twelve. He was fifteen, they were 18.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it seems like it has to be targeted. They just want to kill like a random.

SPEAKER_01

Suspects who made him believe he was meeting a girl. Yeah, they shot him.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, there's always these extreme outlying situations, right? Like the which happened probably a lot, but like the people who are trying to get like sexploiting and you know, these things. Yeah. But even on the most basic level, if none of that happens, I think the fact is that seven or eight hours a day is damaging, period. Yes, of course. And so I think that's where it's like if that's our new norm, how do kids ever learn to be in community and in society and be normal humans? Like, even if they're not doing any of those things, let's assume that they're literally not doing porn, they're not like whatever, having inappropriate conversations, they're not sharing pictures of themselves, they're not doing any of that stuff, right? And it's all just whatever social media scrolling, maybe they're looking at very innocent things, but it's still taking away from their childhood experience from their human connection.

SPEAKER_01

But it's interesting when you say you like include social media in the innocent experience. I don't think it's innocent. They think it is. Maybe they are just want to look at motobikes, yeah, but what they're getting served is not up to them, and it's molding them and what they see without us getting to filter that for them.

SPEAKER_02

That's true, but that's real world too. You send them to school and you don't get to filter, like you know, like they get and I guess I said innocent because I was specifically thinking about a couple that I had a conversation with at not that long who was at Settner and they left Settner, and they were talking about how their girls have phones and they have social media, and the mom was saying she's like, it wasn't me, it was like the dad, whatever, it doesn't even matter. But he was saying that their his daughter was like looking up like the most innocent thing, like I don't remember what it was, but like her whole feed was like knitting or something. And so I think that social media can be a tool, like you know, people learn how to do things on YouTube and whatever. Screen time can be somewhat innocent. I mean, yes, you don't have control over what it is, but it's not like you're like getting knitting, and then next thing you know, like you're seeing a sex thing, you know? Like I don't get any of that. I get like inspirational shit and ads.

SPEAKER_01

But none of it's like I don't see that's that's I I don't I don't really know if that's true. Like there's I've mentioned on here before, there's a girl that has that account called Scrolling to Death, and they start fresh accounts all the time. And all they do is put in that they're 14 years old, they're a girl, location of wherever they say they are, whatever you have to put in. They don't like anything, they don't go on it, and all they don't follow anybody, they don't do anything. And in the feed starts coming self-harm, eating disorders, things that are meant for young girls that that other girls are looking at. So they're like, oh, you're a 14-year-old girl, you might be interested in this too. Knitting is not the go-to default of what they start sending.

SPEAKER_02

That's super interesting. So, like, why who is behind that? Is that bots? Like, how does that happen?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. It's I mean, I guess it's algorithms that are built. I don't know how that even works.

SPEAKER_02

But like what fucked up person built an algorithm to like automatically serve up.

SPEAKER_01

I don't I mean, I guess I don't know how it works well enough. Is it someone that is back there like building it, or the algorithms are so automated, they're like, okay, you're a 14-year-old girl that lives in this area. This is what other 14-year-old girls in your area are looking at, so you would probably also be interested in this. You know? Yeah, that's just all sorts of I think somebody just won like a huge lawsuit against Meta because like they they know that it is not they're not doing enough to prevent kids from seeing things that are harmful.

SPEAKER_02

Actually, when we were in Africa, we were with a family who uh lived in Austria. But they think they were German. And anyway, they were there and they were like they were like, oh my gosh, social media had just gotten banned for kids under 16 years old in one of the countries. I don't know if it was Germany or Austria, but anyway, I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Like, how lovely would it be if. All social media was just banned until they were 16 and they had, you know, the ability to at least like have it.

SPEAKER_01

I think the UK is um is doing something like that too.

SPEAKER_02

Are they? Mm-hmm. So good. That would be I mean, there's so much strength behind numbers. I think that's why it's like our kids don't have phones, but they're not like sending your one kid to school without a phone, he's the only one. It would be different, you know? Like there's strength in numbers, which is why I'm like, okay, he's not the only one, they're fine. But yeah, once you change schools and you're the only one, it changes it. So it's like if social media was just delayed, it wouldn't be so much easier because then we wouldn't have to worry about it until later.

SPEAKER_01

Here we go. So Meta is facing thousands of lawsuits alleging that its platforms, Facebook and Instagram, intentionally deploy addictive features like infinite scroll and algorithms that harm minors' mental health, exacerbate body dysmorphia, and expose kids to predatory behavior. This includes both individual personal injury cases and sweeping multi-state actions by attorney generals. So, like attorney generals of states are starting to do this because they know how bad it is. So, here New Mexico Consumer Protection Trial. A jury found Meta liable for failing to protect children from sexual predators and misleading the public on safety. The company was ordered to pay $375 million. Which for them it's like whatever. Yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_02

But what does that look like? So, I mean, protecting them from predators is I mean, it's so important and but different also than than the feed, the algorithm feeding them, like cutting and whatever. Like this seem like different things.

SPEAKER_01

Well, of course, I think because I think it's all it is different things, but I think it's all part of realizing that it's not for kids. Yeah. And that if you're especially if they're on it for eight hours a day. I mean, how many of those girls do you really think are watching knitting? Very few.

SPEAKER_02

Even But that doesn't mean they're all watching like something horrible either. And I don't think that they're looking for something, right? They're probably just like looking for their friends and like normal teenage shit the majority of the time. What they get served is different, right? Or like who's able to reach out to them and who they're actually having conversations with that may or may not be the person is also concerning.

SPEAKER_01

But that too, whose responsibility is that? Should you only be allowed to get DMs from people that are in your friend group? I think that's how Snapchat works though. That like only people that are in your like Snap group, whatever, can message you. Oh, okay. But people can request, and then you I guess what's happening with Snapchat though is that like if one of your friends is a ding-dong and lets this person be friends with them because they just accept everybody, then you see this person is friends with your friend, you're like, oh, they I they must be okay. Yeah. And then you let them join your group too. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I think is happening with Snapchat, and that's why they say Snap are so I mean, I like I joined it when I was in Chicago and like my friends were joining it, and I was like on it for like a month, and I was like, This is not for me. So I really don't understand Snap. But Instagram obviously is similar, like you have to r request a friendship, but you don't I think the most important thing is like teaching them that who you see there isn't necessarily who it is.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, that's a whole nother thing. Getting into more creepy costs.

SPEAKER_01

It's only getting worse. It is, I mean, it is it's way too much time, especially that much. I mean, I obvious my kids have their iPads, which you know, usually they're just like away and we're not really on them, especially during school and whatever. But I you know, ever since school ended, even kind of towards the end of the year, I just like leave on the table, whatever. And I've noticed like a pattern where I look and like one of the kids is has it and is on it. Yeah. And I'm like, you guys, no. Yeah. Like I kind of got a little bit more lax, and now it's something that they think like they can just grab and take and whatever. I'm like, no, you guys, you you have to ask. You can't just go. And you know, I came in the in yesterday, forget where I was, and Ilya's on the iPad. I come in the door. She doesn't even register that I've come in and opened the door, because if she did, she would have turned off YouTube shorts because she is not allowed to watch them. Right. It's like they're so zoned in and so not paying attention to the world around them. And I look and Ilya's watching, I don't even know what, some dumb YouTube short that I'm like, Ilya. So she's gone on because I took YouTube off her phone. I guess I didn't block YouTube or Safari. She doesn't have a phone. Or iPad, I mean. And she's on it like on Safari.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm like, what the I know, YouTube's a whole nother thing. I have the we have rules around YouTube too. And I walked in the other day, and the boys, Maddox and Ashen, were together watching YouTube. Literally the dumbest shit. They watch people play video games. I'm like, this is such a waste of time. Like, I'd rather have you just play the video game. Don't play the fucking video game. Don't watch someone else play the video game. Like, I can't even, it's like mind-numbing.

SPEAKER_01

But maybe, you know, and uh then again, I try to like go back and be like, all right, I remember when I was younger and the boys used to play video games, and they'd be like, oh, I found a new secret cheat code in Mortal Kombat, backback XY, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, whatever. That's exactly it. So it's like, all right, well, how did they figure those out before? Do they just get like passed down through the word of mouth? Maybe. So now if you have it at your fingertips and you can just be like, what's the mm-cheat code and Grand Theft Auto or whatever? Which maybe that's what they're looking for. They're watching someone play it so they can learn how to do different things. But again, figure it out on your own. You watch as you're cheating.

SPEAKER_02

It just I we said originally, we're like, you can only watch YouTube to learn how to do something, educational content only. But then that gets blurry because Brooks was like watching hunting shows, which we were okay with. We're like, all right, there's some degree of maybe learning there. And then the boys are like, well, we're learning how to do something on Minecraft. And I'm like, no, that's like not literally learning. But it's all this is, I think, that the hardest problem, and I think this is probably why the usage is so high. Because as a parent, to keep tabs of all of it and then figure out what they're doing and what's allowable and what's not, like you have to be really involved. And it's like annoying. It's annoying. I hate monitoring it because I'm like, I don't want to fight over the fucking Minecraft show. Yeah. Even though I really don't want you watching it. Is it worth the fight? Sometimes yes. Sometimes I'm like, is it? I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. And maybe that's what it comes down to. Like, like I said before, at least their being parameters teaches them some kind of understanding that there needs to be rules and thought around this. This isn't a free-for-all. This isn't like, you know, here, the fridge is open, eat as much sugar, lettuce, and healthy stuff as you want. Like, no, it's the same as the sugar and the ice cream in the fridge. Like, you can't just go in there and eat all your Halloween candy that we've been stashing away. 100%. So they're learning like that's not something you do.

SPEAKER_02

And honestly, I realize for me, I do those those time limits because for me it's so much easier to have clear-cut expectations. Like in general, this is how I prefer to parent, because otherwise it's always like somebody, it's unfair because of something else, and they're arguing with me, and they could remember every single time that their brother got one up on them and they didn't get the time or whatever. So for me, it's like I need those clear-cut things, and everyone understands what those are. Or you're like, here's your timer. No, they're responsible for their own time timers, which also can be a problem because I a hundred percent. It's not always though, because I can then take it, right? So you don't obey your time limit, then you lose time the next time. But it does. Ashton is the one, he will push it. He's the youngest, and he will definitely push it. Actually, Brooks will too. Maddox is probably my best rule follower.

unknown

He's so cute.

SPEAKER_02

Brooks will tell me he like doesn't apply to him, which you know it doesn't apply to him.

SPEAKER_01

It doesn't apply to him. Oh gosh. Yeah, I mean, when Jack was to high school, of course, I'll get him one. I'll probably, you know, who knows, maybe he'll get one this summer. But it does turn into like a social thing, too. Because yeah, because like when I when he got a new watch for Christmas, a new Apple Watch. I guess they don't need phone numbers attached to them anymore, which like my brain was having a very hard time wrapping around when I got them for Christmas, because I call it ATT or whatever. And I'm like, his phone number's not working on his phone. They're like, oh, they don't need phone numbers. I'm like, what do you mean? And Apple, and then I talked to Apple, and they're like, no, it just goes off their iCloud email now. They don't need phone numbers anymore. That's wild. And I was like, oh, that's great. I don't have to pay for a phone line on ATT anymore. And John was like, Mom. It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. Like, I can't not have a phone number. So it's bad enough I don't have a phone. I can't not have a phone number. So when I meet people and I'm like, oh, I don't have a phone number. Here's my email address. And I was like, Here's my iCloud.

SPEAKER_02

I kind of get it. I get it too. I mean, even there's been times where I'm like, Brooks was at the wakeboarding park yesterday, and I'm like, I wish I could get a hold of him. And I wish he could like get a Waymo home if he wants to come home.

SPEAKER_01

Like there are times where I'm like Well, luckily, Waymo and doesn't even go out that far. It doesn't. I learned that would be stuck.

SPEAKER_02

Or he'd be getting an Uber with a human that I wouldn't love either. I know. I don't know. I think it's just interesting and tricky to navigate. And I don't think that we have the answers, but I am happy that we've delayed it. I mean, I might always even will say, you know, at our holistic-minded school, sometimes they'll be like, this kindergartner has an iPhone 17. And I'm like, what the fuck are they doing?

unknown

I know.

SPEAKER_02

Like, why?

SPEAKER_01

I will say it's nice, you know, my house tends to be the hangout house. Yeah. And all the kids know that they're not, you know, they don't they're not to be in the house sitting around on the phones. Yeah. So all those kids know that if they come over, there's no I mean, listen, there's some kids where every time I go out, I'm like, seriously? I just told you to put the phone away. And I'm like, oh sorry. But it's nice to know it doesn't deter the kids from not coming over. That's okay. I feel like it'd be a big problem if these kids were like, I'm not going to that house, I'm not on my phone. 100%. So at least they're not like to that point where they don't want to do that. But I just think letting them know that there's like parameters and restrictions around it for a reason. Yeah. Because it can't be a free-for-all. Can't. And I mean, I have a bad habit that I always have my phone like open and I'm like just playing music, even if I'm working or whatever. So I think one time Ilya was in my phone and she's like, Yeah, but mom, you have 14 hours of screen time. I'm like, it's not on every 14 hours. I'm listening to music. I'm working, the things open. And you know, I did like the I had the watch for a while. I didn't like wearing the watch, but it was nice because I was like, oh, it's gonna make you more connected because it's on you, and you're like constantly seeing that people are pinging and messaging you, but it's kind of so annoying to message on it. Yeah. That you just see someone message you, and if it's urgent, you'll figure out how to write them back. But it really was just like, oh, whatever. You don't even pick up your phone. There's nothing to do. It's interesting. I thought Brooks Why doesn't he have a watch?

SPEAKER_02

He does have a watch. It doesn't ever work. What do you mean it never works? I swear to God, that thing never works. Even now. You have cellular data? So we just got switched over from ATT to Verizon. On ATT, like I don't know why, but the thing didn't work. And then Chris has been to Verizon's store now, like twice, and Brooks just realized yesterday it only works on Wi-Fi. He's like, that makes it pointless.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, it is pointless. He needs a cellular one.

SPEAKER_02

He needs a cellular, so he was just saying yesterday, he's like, maybe we need to buy him a new watch because honestly, the watch, like little I don't know if it's the watch or what, but it just never works. But I was like, let's just wait and see what we're doing about school first, because I'm not sure if that's the best answer or not.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, the watch has really solved a lot of those like issues for us. Yeah. Where are you? I need to pick you up. I'm trying to find you. And it's nice, like, if they're out and about, you know, Jocmo's new thing, they love to ride their dirt bikes to the um pickleball courts at Lamingo. Oh, that's fun. And play pickleball, but it's like him and three of his friends, and they play against like grown-ass men. Oh wow. And all they do is come back and tell me the funny stories about how they just like talk smack to these men and then they like beat them in pickleball and the men get mad. I'm like, you guys are gonna get like beat up one day. You're gonna have some like raged out dude that's gonna like try to fight you. Or with the dirt bikes that they're illegal, you know, those bikes are not legal. By the way, you do not know that when you walk out. No, no, no, I knew it.

SPEAKER_02

I have we we have not allowed allowed Brooks or any of our kids to take them out of the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, fine.

SPEAKER_02

And Brooks really wants to take it out of the neighborhood, and I'm having a really hard time with that.

SPEAKER_01

Where does he want to go?

SPEAKER_02

He just wants freedom. Like right now, he wants to go to the gym, which isn't far, but I was like all the way to Legacy? Legacy, yeah. It's I mean, it's a nine-minute, eight-minute drive. Yeah, but what's the route? That's what I told him. I was like, we're gonna drive it together. Yeah. They could do it on he could do 71st Street, which is not terrible, but it's also not slow. It's not a it's not a back road, it's a major road, but it's not the worst. 71st. But I'm like, I don't know. Oh, that's like terrifying. I mean, Chris feels the same way.

SPEAKER_01

It's like legacy, Northwest Miami Court.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Yeah, it's a mile.

SPEAKER_01

That way, it's right there? Yeah. Oh, we just let him go. See? But you're so much more comfortable. I am not. I mean, I think crossing Biscayne is the hardest thing for him, but there's a light right here. What I would do, and that's what I told Jockma when he wanted to ride it to school. Like, you want the privilege to ride that, get your regular bike out and ride your regular bike there for two weeks straight. Show me you know the rules, the bike rules. Like, I was talking to a friend of mine, oh, um, one of Ilya's little friends, a girlfriend's, has a dirt bike, and the mom, oh, she's so funny, and she was riding with her, and she's like, uh, she called me after. She's like, What in the hell is happening with these bikes? She's like, I had to literally made Mila walk at home because she had no idea, like, like the rules of the road. Oh, right. And I was like, Yeah, but does she ride her regular bike around your neighborhood ever? She's like, Well, not really. I was like, as I listen, I was like, My kids have been riding their regular bikes in our neighborhood and with me for years. Yeah. Like they know you follow the rules of the road, you have to stop at the stop signs. Yeah, who cares if you have the right of way? A car will kill you. They'll you always let them go. You don't, and she's like, Yeah, we need some serious lessons.

SPEAKER_02

We actually have to we made our kids do bike safety online course. Like they all had to do it, yeah. And so Brooks has done it, but it's not him that I'm worried about. That's why I keep calling him. I was like, the drivers are so bad here.

SPEAKER_01

They are, and yes, it's an unnecessary risk you're taking. But it I always kind of subscribe to that idea that like the world isn't safe. And you can prepare them and teach them and send them out, or you can like, you know, coddle them and then they'll never be prepared.

SPEAKER_02

But it's not a never. It's like not yet, right? I'm like, you're not even 14 yet. Like, do you really need to be driving a bike that goes 50 miles an hour?

SPEAKER_01

And there needs to be rules. He's not allowed to ride it 50. Maybe he needs a phone and put the Life 360 thing on it so you can see how fast he's going. It tells you how fast they're driving.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01

So it'll alert you. You can set it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And if you're like, you're not allowed to go over 35.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And if you like, there's very strict rules with these dirt bikes. Like if I see you break if I see you ride that thing once without a helmet, it's gone.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, 100%. We've said that for sure. And they have like these massive helmets. Like, we got really good helmets. I was like, we will buy the helmets. Yeah, of course. But that's a good idea. Because I'm like, I like I'm like, yes, I can tell him all day you can't go over whatever speed limit. But like I have no control over it when he's out there. And I'm no control, you know, it's just like, and it's just like the scary part is it's like one thing.

SPEAKER_01

But then, but that kind of goes against what you're just saying. You're like, I'm not worried about him, I'm worried about other people on the road.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's true. But it is, I would I would feel better if I I like the idea of being able to track it just because he's a boy. Like boys always are going to test the boundaries, right? He wants to see, you know, like even in our neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01

Test boundaries in this neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02

Right, exactly. Exactly. Don't do it out there. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think that ride, if it was like up Biscayne or something, I'd be like, eh.

SPEAKER_02

No, I hate Biscayne.

SPEAKER_01

That that direction there, I think, I think is fine. I thought it was that legacy all the way over, like by the school. Oh god. Oh, never. No, this is a mile away, and we're still like I think make them, but it I think it c it kind of ties in with like the whole earning your screen time, also. Like you want to earn this privilege to ride your dirt bike out of the neighborhood, get on your regular bike and do it. Even that scares me, though. That's the problem. Well then ride with him and show him. I could ride him. That's what they need. It's be like, okay, this is what's happening here. There's four cars at a stop sign. Who is the right of way?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01

When do you go?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's true. I have like a beach cruiser. I'm gonna look like a weirdo, but I like that idea.

SPEAKER_01

Why is that a weirdo? I only have beach cruisers. I think girls look weird on speed bikes. I'd rather be on my unicorn tassel beach cruiser. With that, we're done. I want my 10 speed with weights on my ankles. Yeah, that would be more me.

SPEAKER_02

Can we get a mountain bike and a mountain bike? All right, we gotta go.

SPEAKER_01

I hope you guys are well. That's it. Jeez. I know. Time flies when you're having fun, huh? Yeah, that was a good one. All right. We'll talk about that for a while.

SPEAKER_02

Don't forget to share with a friend because we suck at social media.

SPEAKER_01

That's gonna be our new closer for everything. We don't know how to go viral, so help us. Anyone, anyone looking for work? Really?

SPEAKER_02

All right. Love you guys. See you next week. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We're really glad you're here. You can follow the podcast on Apple and Spotify, and we're on social at Don't Tell the Kids with a bunch of other scores. Hang in there, mamas. See you next week.