Upside-down Leadership

What happens when people occupy leadership positions but lack the mindset, emotional intelligence, and self-awareness required to truly lead?

In this thought-provoking episode of Apex Performance Podcast, Dr. Anthony Simmons introduces the concept of Upside-Down Leadership, a leadership model where individuals use their position to elevate themselves rather than develop the people they serve. Drawing from decades of leadership experience, doctoral research, and command at sea, Dr. Simmons explores why so many organizations struggle with trust, engagement, development, and performance despite having leaders in place.

You'll discover the critical differences between leaders and followers, the role of emotional intelligence in leadership effectiveness, the dangers of ego-driven leadership, and why authentic leaders create platforms for others to grow rather than standing on the shoulders of those they lead.

If you're a leader, aspiring leader, educator, coach, executive, or anyone responsible for developing people, this episode offers a powerful challenge to rethink what leadership truly means.

Because leadership isn't about power, position, or status.

It's about creating opportunities for others to rise higher than you ever could alone.

Connect with Dr. Anthony Simmons

Visit ApexPerformancePodcast.com for leadership resources, free gifts, and more episodes designed to help you build authentic relationships, elevate performance, and lead with purpose. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Do you ever feel like you're doing all the right things, but success still doesn't last? If you're struggling with trust, strange relationships, or performance that feels harder than it should, then this podcast is for you. Here's your host, executive leader, and scholar practitioner, Dr. Anthony Simmons.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Hey greetings, I'm Dr. Anthony Simmons, and I'm honored once again to welcome you to another episode of Apex Performance Podcast, where all pathways are cemented in authentic relationships through a common act. We have to continue to appreciate, communicate, and trust. Now, while I continue to offer accelerated pathways to excellence, today's episode will address upside-down leadership. It's what I couch as people in leadership positions standing on the shoulders of those that they should be nurturing and cultivating. In the last episode, I discussed the DNA of exceptional leaders. Now, this episode will pivot to what I term as a pressing leadership problem. I highlighted this problem in my application for my doctoral scholarship back in 2018. At that time, I coined the title Upside Down Leadership, where I suggested leadership positions were occupied by people who were not emotionally and socially qualified to lead, and the information age had manifested an environment where people like basic life skills. While my last episode on leadership DNA compared leaders to managers, now to highlight existential pressing leadership needs, this episode would essentially talk about leaders and followers, albeit with followers occupying leadership positions. In emotional intelligence habits, Dr. Travis Bradbury posits that anyone can become a follower despite being in a leadership position. This comes from being slaves to the status quo, lacking vision, and not inspiring those around you to do their absolute best and also not interacting with others in a meaningful way. He also says followers care a lot about titles. They are more conscious of who outranks whom because they lack the skill and the motivation to create leadership within. Now, as for leaders and followers, during my doctoral scholarship, I actually had a course that was called Leaders and Followers. And from that course, I learned that the word follower is actually a diminishing term as the seams between leaders and followers is vanishing and it has been supplanted by what we're considering today as co-equals. So in this thesis, managers are replaced with followers who effectively default to upside down leaders because of their position. I would also assert eight years later, considering I did my letter in coin upside down leadership in 2018. Now, owing to the continuous proliferation of AI and the decline of social skills, high-minded leaders are more in demand today than ever. Especially considering that many in leadership positions. Notice I did not say leaders, I said leadership positions. They are using their positions to actualize through those they are charged to lead. They use the members or those expiring leaders to elevate their status as opposed to providing them a platform to grow and develop. So throughout my discussions, you will notice I replace the word followers oftentimes with expiring leaders because I'm of the mind that we have expiring leaders. We just have to make sure we position them to one day to reach their goals of becoming leaders. Now, as I move into my bonus for this, I like to credit my experience as a lifelong learner and a four-time at sea commander as equipping me to understand how to provide platforms that serve the betterment of others. As a commander, I always saw my role as facilitating the success of my crew as the performance of the ship reflected their capacity. I always felt that it was their ship. So I did this by learning through and welcoming feedback from the aspiring leaders that I had within the command without feeling as if I was being attacked, and I saw that as a testament to my location on higher level need, and it was my vehicle to move people and organizations through north. People occupying leadership positions have no foundation to stand on. So they are standing on the people they are charged to lead. Anthony L. Simmons. On March the 31st, 2026, I had the honor of being on a podcast with Dr. Laurie McNeill. She's a leader of Sterling Visionary Voices. And she started out the podcast as we got into the leadership discussion. She said, self-esteem and psychology drive leadership. And I felt that that could not be more true. Now let's talk about this upside-down state that we're in and how it manifests on to inadequate personal leadership attributes. As I talked about emotional intelligence, maturity, being transparent, having self-confidence, self-actualizing, belonging, and having safety. Upside-down leaders, they are unable to connect with others because they lack the self-awareness to identify with themselves. They have more interest in their position than the responsibilities that come with the position. Now, having said that, I find it appropriate to align this thesis to the efforts that was done by Abraham Maslow on his hierarchy of needs theory, where he illustrates certain stages of development in life. So in my book, Champion Organizational Wellness, I illustrated a needs versus leadership capacity model where I use Maslow's argument where he said people must fill foundational needs before advancing to higher psychological and personal growth stages. The foundation he relates to physiological safety and belonging, and the higher level needs of self-esteem and self-actualization. So in champion organizational wellness, I submitted that not obtaining these foundational needs will result in individuals occupying positions that stands on the shoulders of those that they're in charge of leading, also which is inverted, hence upside down. This coupled with inadequate emotional intelligence maturity upsets the leadership landscape of today. Now, this upside down leadership phenomenon could be considered a byproduct of followers occupying leadership positions. Now, according to Dr. Bradbury, you know, followers see talent and accomplishments of others as threats. And also, as far as knowing your location, Maslow theory defines transactional and transformational leaders where it's linked to what stage you are within that hierarchy of needs there. Where transactional leaders seek sometimes safety and belonging, you know, through defensive behaviors, while transformational leaders are more progressive and objective in their approach. So Maslow, higher level, is tantamount to what I term high-minded leaders as well. He discovers which is a sixth order that talks about being self-transcendent, which I will discuss in the next episode as I get into servantship, which is self-transcendent leadership. As I addressed in my discussion on qualities of great leaders, I said they must embody high-mindedness, self-awareness, and self-confidence, which should triumph personal confidence. Today's leadership roles of the pride of this high-mindedness that yields to self-confidence. What I feel self-confidence is the single most important attribute as people are promoted, and there is a direct relationship between leadership demands and self-confidence. So, as one of the most pivotal personal attributes, I feel self-confidence must be commensurate to the level of leadership responsibilities, as the degree of confidence should be proportional to that level of responsibility. As your responsibilities increase, so should the leader's emotional intelligence maturity. Otherwise, the platform implodes and becomes upside down. It upsets the apricot. So it yields again the upside down leadership thesis that I've talked about throughout. I feel self-confidence enables transparency and it underscores trust that is really crucial to building an authentic relationship. It discerns transactional and transformational leaders. Self-confidence is something that you acquire in a high-level job. You must show up with it. You must understand yourself. You must do ongoing assessments so you can help others. You must genuinely like where you're in life and be willing to sacrifice your location in order to expand your comfort zone to align with others based on their location and perspective and their respective needs. In my opinion, it helps when you are personally and professionally fulfilled. You have experienced success. I think this helps to validate your self-esteem and your self-actualization level based on mass low needs curve there. I think you are more equipped to positively influence others when you are able to deflect personal needs. Leadership requires interdependent relationships. So in seven habits of highly effective people, Stephen R. Recarvey defines interdependence as the leader and follower working together to achieve a high order of effectiveness, which is greater success. This interdependence pretends as actualizing through life progressions of dependency and independence. We must exceed dependency and experience independency to embrace interdependency. They will leverage information by keeping it close to their vest rather than sharing. Interdependency enables relationship management. Interdependent relationships allows leaders and aspiring leaders to interact and share information, which folds into communication and feedback, which are pivotal to any effective relationship. Now there's a strong tendency for followers or those upside-down leaders to keep information close to their vests because it helps them to wield power. But they must understand leadership is not about power, it is about responsibility. Keeping information close to the vest, it really prevents the delegation and also it reflects what I call passive-aggressive behaviors. I always said I would prefer a coach who yells at me than one who withholds information because I always find those that withhold information to be unpredictable. It's akin to like stonewalling. You know, sometimes when people don't like conflict, they feel that silence is appropriate. But really, that's the worst thing I feel you could do. I think it's worse than that condemning someone. Conversely, great leaders merit friction in order to move expiring leaders forward. In his book Think Again, Adam Grant submits that defective leaders seek information that contradicts their opinion in order to grow. Now, antithetical to seeking this contradicting opinion, Grant talks about confirmation bias where seeing what we expect to see and desirability bias, seeing what we want to see. This is where one seeks outcomes that support initial thinking or either their beliefs. Developing this confirmation bias can create also blind spots. So if feedback doesn't match pre-existing beliefs, these upside-down leaders they see other inputs as an excuse when people offer them suggestions. They struggle with appreciation and praise and they dwell on pointing out negative aspects of the feedback they receive. They tend to focus on what and who makes them look better, vice ones that gonna get them any cross-examinations per se. Now that we've navigated all the contextual elements and some of the concepts and thinking behind this upside-down leadership model, let's get into some real life examples. First, we have to say, you know, if you are in a position that is bigger than who you are personally, then you will probably default to what's best for you and not provide the service that the position requires. You will only move to improve your personal status. I recall when I was working at the Navy Bureau of Personnel and I was in charge of providing officers to certain ships of commands throughout the Atlantic Fleet. And oftentimes it bothered me that some captains would like to hold over some of their top performers for certain operations that was pending. You know, I was always of the mindset that, you know, we shouldn't have A players and B players. We have to develop all the players we have in place and have succession plans in order to meet those requirements. So I feel that any organization that's going to be successful, you have to believe in both your A and B players. Where your B players are should be the ones in development. They should help you manifest what I have spoken of, my team within teams, where you take 20%, then make the 80% better. You know, you have to have these integrated teams in order to have organizational excellence. Now let's look at some of the drawbacks and some of the negative outcomes of this upside-down leadership model. I like to look at proactive leaders versus reactive followers. Look at the turnover in the school system. We like to look at the shortcomings in youth sports here. We're seeing where we have school leaders, they're not providing feedback. You know, you look around January, February time frame. You know, I think most times your leaders are already planning for bringing other people in. They pretty much shut down, they're pretty much written off, you know, some of their faculty members of that time. Vice, just giving them, you know, feedback and just talking. So there's so much time, just an inordinate amount of time is spent towards looking for replacement. So you're really not getting any return on your investments. And also, as I move into coaches, I feel like they are doing more exploiting, you know, the more advanced players while damaging the other players that requires development. Boy, once again, everyone's looking at that ready-made resources out there while he's building those resources and developing environments of mutual trust, which I think is a higher order. So that has become a lost art. And to fall on into this whole gym and ship environment, you know, I'll hear oftentimes this is my gym, and I've heard people say this is my ship. So I think both are so untrue. You know, coaches claim it's their gym, but it's not, and captains claim it's their ship, and it's not. I really abhor, you know, both as I understand. It's always has been and always will be the sellership. As a captain, I felt I had the honor to facilitate the success, you know, of the sellers within that ship. Same as in the gym. I feel like the coach is charged to ensure, you know, that the players get the max utility of that gym through him developing them to do their business. So just like managers, you know, upside-down leaders are more transactional in nature, and they are inclined to apply methodologies that promote fear tactics as motivational tools. They seek and favor individuals who show up with all the winning attributes. So everyone wasn't born, you know, with a dogish personality, but that doesn't mean they don't have competitive juices inside. No one wants to fail, they just need a trust and inspired leader to teach them how to win. So, what are the future implications and the so what of this upside down leadership auto? Where do we go from here? I will assert that upside down leadership is not a sustaining platform. Leadership is a high-minded proposition that requires emotional intelligence maturity. Leaders must be a higher stage on the Maslow spectrum because self-actualizing through others is counterproductive, unacceptable, and untenable. So, emotional intelligence leaders they check the egos at the door and they embrace relationships of near equals with aspiring leaders. You know, leadership researcher Robert L. Overstreet in his effort, Ego versus EQ, suggests those who surround themselves with gullible followers will become a lost art. The arrangement doesn't work because aspiring leaders will simply shut down if not being inspired by those they look to for leadership. We must elevate the platform, not oneself. Being a leader is not about what I call my bad peas. It's not about power and pay, which translates to title and compensation. It's about the capacity to magnify others. Leaders must offer platform, shoulders for others, for their aspiring leaders to stand on so they can see further. Right side leaders, they provide these shoulders to elevate those they encounter. So leadership is a service, it's not a title, it doesn't allow you to direct people, it's providing a platform to facilitate the needs for those to be their best selves. My model as a four times at sea commander indicated such. Also, Dr. Bradbury suggests that EQ leaders have more beliefs in their people than their systems. They create an environment where people thrive. You know, in his take on a common man, the renowned coach John Wooden once said, you must believe in yourself and not your position alone. So to address personal leadership needs, organizations must elevate people to leadership positions that embody holistic skills technically, emotionally, and socially to address demands rather than someone who merely glad-handed their way up the organizational ladder, where glad-handing and ingratiating oneself lead to upside-down leadership. Right side leaders encourage and seek feedback without being defensive or feeling undermined. They believe in two-way information exchange to cultivate and nurture authentic relationships, which is pivotal to high-performing teams. Effective leaders must be accomplished and self-assured to reach level six. Now that I have presented the pressing leadership needs, it's incumbent on me to introduce and model the solution set. How do we get there? What is the sticking point? You know, we talk about EQ skills, emotional intelligence thereof, you know, self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and social inaction. So we need high-minded leaders who have a combination of a blend of this emotional intelligence, stamina, and IQ, where we have to move to what we call the sixth stage of being self-transcendent leader, where we envision greatness of others. So stay tuned and please subscribe to the next episode of Apex Performance Podcast and join me on the next episode featuring servantship and self-transcendent leadership. And as always, where game-changing pathways to excellence are right there at your fingertips. Thank you and see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

So that's it for today's episode of Apex Performance. Head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on iTunes or Apple Podcasts will win a chance to win a grand prize drawing worth $5,000 for a private VIP day with Dr. Simmons himself. Be sure to visit Apex Performance Podcast.com to pick up a free copy of your gift and ask your questions for Dr. Simmons in your own voice, and he'll answer you back privately in his. Then join us on the next episode.