Can Marvel Studios Fix This issue?

Rob & Jesse Dive deeper Into the Marvel Universe and explore more issues that might be causing poor reviews. Join Us for Another Great Episode Of The Paradigm Shift

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Alright, guys, welcome back to another edition of the Paradigm Shift. We're diving back into Marvel Cinematic Universe. This time we're gonna hone in on Daredevil Born Again. We're gonna talk about it a little bit. I got quite a bit on my mind when it comes to this. Now, Jesse, I know that you love this show. So uh once again, I forgot to introduce myself. I am Big Rob back with Jesse. How you doing, buddy?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Doing great, doing great. Looking forward to talking about Daredevil.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Yes, I know you I know you are um so I don't even know where to start on this. I mean, I I said I would start to watch it so that we could kind of cover it, and there's a couple things that jump out to me in this series so far. And one, I wish that they would simply, and they did kind of start. You've seen uh the guy who plays Daredevil star in two of the last Spider-Man movies as Murdoch, as a as the lawyer, not as Daredevil, though, right? Right. Um now I would love to see him brought into the Marvel Universe movies as opposed to the the small screen, right? However, it's difficult to do that with these bigger, uh or sorry, these smaller, I call them smaller heroes. I'm just scaling things because you have your galaxy threats, and you have your earthly threats, and then you have your neighborhood threats, right? In terms of heroes and villains, right? I mean, Rhino's not a threat to the universe, for example, right? He doesn't you don't need Miss Marvel to come along and kick his ass, right? But so so that's kind of I I guess that's why it's hard for them to transition somebody like Daredevil or Punisher, those kind of like street level heroes. It's hard to have them in movies where they're fighting someone like Thanos, right? Where he could punch their face off and what you know, their head off their shoulders and in one swing. Um, what do you think about that? Is that a difficult transition, do you think, from the small screen to the big screen for these uh street level heroes and villains?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Hmm, is that a difficult transition? Um, I think you you bring up a good point, right? They really are kind of street level, it's in the streets, right? And maybe, you know, maybe in a way that's kind of why I liked all those original Netflix shows, because they're all kind of like that, right? Whether it was Daredevil or The Iron Fist or Luke Cage or Jessica Jones, they were all in the streets, uh, kind of local characters, right? And they're not at that federal level or planetary level. Um, so it's I don't know, you know, you're kind of like comparing like a grapefruit to like a squash or something. I mean, these are like just completely different. So I think what I like about the street level characters is they're more gritty and they're more real. Uh, whereas I think in terms of like the the kind of like the federal or you know the planetary, it's like it it becomes more fantasy the further up the chain you go.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Uh you know, I would say well, it's interesting you say that because there is a degree of um higher moral ground for your planetary heroes, your your Ironmans, your, you know, I would hesitate to say Captain America. He's you know, he's he's touch and go, but you know what I mean? Those those bigger heroes on a planetary scale, and what I mean by that is exactly what you said. The there is no uh gray area for them, right? In terms of what has to be done. It's always you cannot kill.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Whereas you go to the street level, it's a little more relatable to uh the human condition, where they really target uh you know the the the emotions and the the loss and the heartache and the and the anger and the rage that can come to these heroes, uh your your punishers, your daredevils, uh stuff like that, like it would come to your eye, just a regular person, right? And that that thin blue line, so to speak, gets very, very blurry, and they do kill, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Hmm. Yeah, yeah. I think um, you know, you brought up in the past like Spider-Man, right? Spider-Man, you could argue, is a local hero.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Friendly neighborhood, Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Friendly neighborhood, yeah. I mean, he's he's in New York, he's not really a global anything or a planetary anything. Um, but he has made the movies, the MCU, right? He is out there, uh, and they have kind of crossed him over. Um, you know, maybe maybe the thing here is it's like uh there's certain elements. I don't know if you always need to cross over everything, right? Like I I like having a darker, grittier uh space that some of these characters can be in, right? And and again, I mean that that's half the reason I really like the Netflix shows, is they were all like that. They were dark, they were gritty. Uh you know, it was it was just very different. And I I think maybe for me, I I I can follow them a lot easier than when I'm following like Loki and the timekeepers or something like that, and I have no idea what's happened from one episode to the next, right? Whereas whereas if I'm watching like Luke Cage, I know exactly what's going on, or if I'm watching Daredevil, I know exactly what's happening, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

You bring up a very good point because we live in an age where you have to have that raw uh gray area, right? Where we don't live in in a time like we did in the 80s with the all your heroes are like Hulk Hogan's, you eat your vitamins and say your prayers and bubblegum and you know rainbows. You can't have that nowadays because it's just it's not entertaining to people anymore. We've we've moved way past that kind of a mindset. You have to have that dark, relatable character who like Frank Castle, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

So I I definitely agree with you, and it's it is kind of the world we live in today. I almost wish that they would bring a little bit more of that darkness to the Marvel movies.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, that'd be tough because I think the Marvel movies have a certain style to them, uh, and they kind of make fun of themselves sometimes, and in this world, they don't do that uh at all. You know, it's really not like that. It's it's it's very real. Now, one thing that that I would say, so I watched the first three Daredevils on uh Netflix, and the first two I really, really liked. I felt like the third one shifted a little bit. Like I could tell the writing was kind of different, the theme was kind of different. And you know, Daredevil stopped for a good, I think it was like six or seven years maybe before they brought back Born Again. And one of my I guess gripes with Born Again is so they they're kind of picking up where the last three shows left, but they're taking it forward in a in a new way, right? So they're kind of they're highlighting the old, but they're moving it forward, and that's that's fine. I'm I'm good with that. But in the original uh three shows, it was very much a trio. So it's Matt Murdoch, it's Foggy Nelson, and it's Karen Page, right? The three of them, they're they're uh um, you know, Murdoch and Nelson, or whatever they call them, right? Nelson and Murdoch is what it was. Nelson and Murdoch, okay. And she was the secretary, and they were kind of like every episode, they were all they were each in it, you know, one way or the other, right? Foggy was more of the lawyerslash politician type person. Uh Karen is, you know, coming from her own trauma. And then uh Matt is Daredevil, right? And so anyway, when when this thing started, and by the way, a little bit of spoilers, right? Just to set the tone here. Yeah, and they killed Foggy. It was like Oh, in the first episode, yeah, it's like uh my gosh. I mean, he he's like one of the core guys here. I mean, he's Matt's roommate from college, and I I get it they had to set it on a new path, but I don't know if they needed to kill him right off the bat. Like I didn't I didn't foresee that coming, and I saw leading up to the um release of Born Again that you know they did a few big big events where they all came out on stage and the crowd was like, Yeah, you know, everybody's coming back. Yes, this is gonna be awesome. And then in that very first episode, they took out Fogg. Yeah, they took him out, and I I I don't know if I can forgive them for that. I I feel like I mean, I I get it, you have to have events and things need to happen, and it puts it on a new path. I get it, but definitely controversial, I'll say that.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, and to be honest with you, like I I get the point of you know him hanging up the mantle, and you know, a year later he hasn't done anything as Daredevil and all this kind of stuff because his friend died. And I I get that, and I get the point of doing it is to show the impact of his uh on him as a person, right, on his character of the loss of Faki, right? So I I get that, but at the same time, it's a severe lack of entertainment value, in my opinion. It just it I felt like the first two episodes was just so much fucking sulking and whining about this shit, and I was just like, dude, I get it, right? But get moving here, right? Like, can we get the story kind of going? Now I will say, uh, what's his name? John something who plays Fisk Vincent D'Onofrio. Yeah, okay, that's sorry, yeah, that's his name. Fantastic. Fantastic. I don't think anybody you you know, we we've talked you and I before about people who are like just born to play a role.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Fantastic, right? Yeah, he he is he is very good, and you know, I would say in this series, you see his his wife Vanessa kind of take more of a lead role in it. You also see some of the supporting cast around him in that mayor's office. Like one of the guys is um uh the real life uh Tony Soprano, you know, um James Gandalf's son, Michael Gandalf, is one of the guys that's in there. And he's so good. He looks just like Tony Soprano. He's really good. They also um from the original shit from the original show there was um Ben um Ben something or other. He was the reporter, right? And Fisk uh Fisk killed him in the original ones. Well, now it's his I think it's his niece that she is now a reporter.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

What's that? I think it's his daughter.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Is it his daughter?

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah, I'm at the point right now where she's sitting in the office and talking with Fisk for an interview, and he he's like, I remember your father kind of thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah, yes, yeah. Um so so there's some there's some really cool elements there. You know, the one thing I would tell you is uh two episodes is not enough. You you gotta keep going, man. You gotta keep going, see it through. And there's some I would say what what I find different about this one is it's it's written very well. Um, but I would say that I think the episodes of Born Again are a little more each their own episode versus the original shows was kind of like one long movie in a way, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Oh, I'll keep going because I think that it's good. That's one of the reasons I wanted to do, I only wanted to watch a few episodes. Um, like after I watched a few episodes, I was like, you know what? Based on the opinion I have on the show right now, I think it would be smart to talk about it and then continue playing it out and let's see if that opinion evolves and moving forward. Like, you know, a week from now, I could be through far more episodes and I could be sitting here going, what a fantastic show, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah, that there'll be parts of this I think that you like uh we when you get further past kind of the beginning. And you know, one thing that I would say in this show that I don't another thing, another gripe that I have is that in the in the original three seasons, he his um his love interest, I think her name was Electra, right? And the two of them had like chemistry, right? I mean, you could just like feel it, like there was like legit chemistry there, and they were sort of um equals in a way that you know she was sort of like a dark um a dark villain, you know, martial arts, and he was sort of a lighter, a lighter version, but still from the shadows. So they kind of hit it off. And towards the end, they kind of had Matt hooking up with Karen. And in this show, he's he's with Karen, but I gotta say, between the two of them, I feel like they have no chemistry at all. Like they don't even look like they would remotely go together. I I don't feel like I'm not believing that they're a couple, I gotta say.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

So are you talking about it being bad casting, or just these two characters just are not it's it's not the casting.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

The casting is spot on. Casting's great. I think it's the storyline that the two of them are somehow romantically involved when really it it always felt like in the original show that if anybody was going to be romantic, it would be her and Foggy. But then they kind of made her and Foggy like best friends, and then sort of weirdly Matt hooked up with her after they got rid of Electra. And so I think I think in this one, watching it, especially into season two, I'm still just I'm I'm kind of having trouble with the two of them being a couple. It it just doesn't feel believable to me.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Hmm. Interesting. Now going back to what you said about Spider-Man, um being uh on on the you know plan planetary threat movie scale. I think Spider-Man is is right now obviously the bridge between uh the street level stuff with your Punishers and your Devils. I mean Punisher, we've seen uh Frank Castle is in the trailers, is actually in the new Spider-Man movie that comes out in July, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

And they show in the trailer, you know, a scene where Spider-Man just kind of nonchalantly whips his ass and then you know shoots him in the mouth with a web and and says, Go home, Frank, right? Like he's like he's just uh an afterthought, right? Yeah, and that's that's kind of giving you that scale of planetary strength versus you know neighborhood strength, uh, or or tears, anyways. And um, but the thing is with the thing is with Spider-Man is he he has his powers, right? He has his incredible strength. Apparently, he's way stronger than even Captain America is, right, in terms of raw strength. Um, Daredevil, from my understanding, doesn't actually have any powers. His senses are increased because of that stuff, right? But he doesn't have super strength or any of that kind of stuff that Spider-Man possesses, from my understanding, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

So so Daredevil, his father was a boxer, so that's sort of his origin story, is from the boxer ring world, and then he's trained by Stick, who is a martial arts guy, but because he uh gets goes blind as a kid, he has this heightened hearing that allows him to see the world as if it's like infrared, right? So he can see things before they're coming, he can hear things before they're coming. And his his superpower is like he kind of keys in on that. So like if somebody's lying to him, he can hear their heartbeating faster, or if somebody's coming, he can hear them getting out of the car before they're even in the building. You know, so he always kind of has a one-up on whoever he's going against. If they throw a throw something at him, he already knows it's coming, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Like a spider sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

In a way, yeah. So that's that's that's stuff that from my understanding split, he got some stuff, toxic sludge, whatever, splashed into his eyes, lost his vision, yeah, but it gave him almost an echo location uh for his senses, for his his hearing and all that other kind of stuff, right? So that's how he can get around. But he doesn't have any suits. So other than that, though, he's just a dude who knows like crazy martial arts.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yeah. So that's the difference, I guess, uh uh between you know your street level and your same thing with Frank Castle, right? No super strength, no superpowers whatsoever. It's just a dude that'll wreck you, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah. And I think that I think that they kind of tried to do that street level tier with Captain America. Um, what's the guy's name? Uh, the black guy that that took over the mantle of Captain America.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Anthony Mackey.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yes, Anthony Mackey. So he came in and they tried to do a whole Captain America, you know, thing with him, which I believe they did in the comics, which is fine. Problem is, I think it didn't generate a lot of interest because in the same way, he didn't have any, he doesn't have any super serum or anything like that. He's just a dude with normal strength and athleticism that can fight good, right? And I think that kind of I think that kind of hurt the credibility of the character when you've got him in a movie and he's got his he's got his falcon wings on, but he's fighting like Red Hulk, and you're just like, man.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Like they're not really on the same level. Yeah, like not even kinda, you know. Yeah. But you know, you know, if you think back to the originals, though, I mean look at look at Hawkeye. Like, what did what did he have? Well, he can fire a bow and arrow, okay? Yeah, and he's really accurate, okay. But that's it. Like, he's not what else does he have, you know?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah, he's smart and he can shoot arrows, really, really good.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Really even uh what's her name, Black Widow. What did she have?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

She had little electric things on her fists, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah, so she didn't really have a whole lot of either. But you know, may maybe you know, maybe all it takes, kind of going back to this idea, is you gotta like elevate them off the streets a little bit. Like, let's let's bring him to Washington, let's put him in World War II, right? Right, like captain, right? Uh let's introduce the spider-verse, and now it's like at a weird kind of like global level, right? If you do something like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I think you have yeah, in a sense, I guess what you're saying is you have to kind of shield those characters if you're bringing them in to those environments, right? Um, like like you said, like they did with uh like they were doing with uh with the the new Captain America character, even when he was Falcon in the Captain America movies with Chris Chris Evans, and the same thing with uh Black Widow, they didn't throw her into the mix where she was in a hand to hand combat situation with Thanos or any of Thanos' minions kind of thing. She was still in the movie, but just doing other stuff, right? And I guess you kind of have to do that. Um, I mean, you've got you've got Thor taking the full brunt of a star, right? And you've got these. You know, these other characters that uh just don't have any any strength whatsoever. The same could be argued for um uh what's his name? Uh the leader of the Guardians of the Galaxy, uh Chris Pratt's character.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah. Star Lord. What was his name? Star Lord. Star Lord, yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, he doesn't have any powers either. Yeah. He's just smart, and he's got guns and uh uh this jetpack on his back or whatever, and he's got his mask, but he doesn't actually have any powers, right? So you can have those characters in in kind of shielded or protected situations, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Well, it you know what's interesting. So in the first three Daredevils, he always talked about Hell's Kitchen because that's where he's from in the comics. Hell's Kitchen. Everything was hell's kitchen. He never says New York, he really just says hell's kitchen over and over and over, right? In the new show, he doesn't say hell's kitchen at all. It it's all just like New York. He doesn't talk about Hell's Kitchen. Oh, he does. Well, not not at the same level though. Like if you had a if you had a chart, if you're rating these, I mean, the way the the amount of times he said hell's kitchen in the first three versus now, it's nowhere nowhere near.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, because like I agree with you, but uh with like the the lunch that he had with uh with Kick Fisk, um they're both talking about uh neither one of them has been back to Hell's Kitchen in in years, something like that, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Well well it and that was a great point, right? Because in that scene, again, it was kind of passing the torch from the from the Netflix shows to this show. And in this show, he really doesn't he doesn't talk about uh about it in that way. But you know, like one thing I would say is that I think um I like him being in New York and just local to New York. I like the grittiness of New York, you know, and and he as well as Fisk really kind of fit that vibe of like that kind of gritty, grungy New York. And you know, even even in the episodes, it's funny, they'll do these little uh segments sometimes at the beginning of the episode, like they're interviewing people on the street of like what do they think of this or that, you know, and they're like typical New Yorkers just kind of throwing it out there, and then they'll go into the episode. Like I kind of like that, you know. Like I don't I don't need to see uh Matt Murdoch uh on the federal level or you know, in Wakanda or something like that. Like I don't I I really don't need to see that. I I like him in New York and I like him battling Fisk in New York, and I like that Fisk is the mayor, he's not like the president or something like this, you know?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah. Yeah, and I mean he just won the election, and like from what I've watched, now I saw that uh in the because you you got little little you know uh thumbnails almost for upcoming episodes when you're going through them, and so obviously a few episodes up it shows that uh the Punisher is there uh in a scene. So kind of spoiler alert for me anyway, there but that actually gives me more incentive to watch more because I would like to see I'd like to see that engagement. Uh and I am interested because there's with the with the with the transition of Frank Castle's character over onto Spider-Man's movies, and you have seen, like I said before, Murdoch uh in two Spider-Man movies now, playing Peter Parker's lawyer, right? You do have this slow transition into the the big screen that's kind of taking place right now.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Maybe, maybe. You know, maybe this is the part where you're getting hung up is you're you're looking at this from a from a chair in the MCU. I'm looking at it from a chair like right there sitting at street level in New York. Like right, like it's kind of different viewpoints, and you you just got to kind of see it from that lens. Now, you know, like one thing I was gonna tell you. Um, in this show, they do introduce a few characters that I had never even heard about before. Uh like one of them was I think they call him the White Tiger.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah, I heard they mentioned him, I haven't seen him yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

But okay, so just know that you absolutely have to watch the episode with the White Tiger. It's probably the most powerful episode in the whole season. Very, very good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I think the next episode on my uh going up, I think it's the next one.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

So yes, it's very powerful. And and and especially when you find out what happened to the actual actor who played the white tiger, you you gotta learn the backstory afterwards as well. It's it's amazing. Um but that one's really good, and then there's also a pretty big character called, I think his name is Muse. And boy, is he a weirdo. And he shows up in this thing, and he is very weird.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

So looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, yeah. So you you gotta you gotta see those parts too. I mean, those will give you nightmares, a few of those scenes that Muse is in.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Um well, here's another thing that kind of caught my attention that stuck out to me, and I was kind of like made me think, I suppose is the best way to word it. Now, Fisk makes a comment on in his presser when he is voted in mayor, and he's talking about you know how there's gonna be zero tolerance for heroes, and he says, you know, like he mentions Daredevil and Punisher, and he mentions Spider-Man, you know, going around in a spider costume or whatever the case might be, and it's not gonna be tolerated, right? And I remember thinking to myself when he said that, I was I was like, again, from the position like you were saying of the Marvel cinematic universe, I'm I'm thinking, what are you gonna do about it? Right? You're the mayor of New York. Spider-Man is on a planet going toe-to-toe with Thanos with the uh with the Infinity Stones, but you're not gonna tolerate him swinging around New York City. It just that's that's that scale again, right? Where it's it makes you think, what the hell are you gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Well, I I gotta say, I I I know uh I think you said you hadn't watched all three of the earlier seasons, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

No, no, I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Okay, so when they introduced Fisk's backstory, uh his story is that uh in the world that he came from, his father was abusive and was always abusive towards him. Both he mentions that in this. Yes, yeah it it it that's that's what part of this character is. So that physical and verbal abuse follows him. But outside of that, there's an episode in the first three where they show him physically abuse his mom, and then he step stands up for and the dad says, What are you gonna do about it? And then he basically beats him to death. And that that's what sets the tone for Fisk from then on. And so Fisk has this like rage. Again, D'Nofrio is on another level as an actor for this stuff, but he's got this like rage thing in inside him, this brutality that goes way beyond like other other people. So when you say like, well, what are you gonna do about Fisk, you gotta see Fisk in that light. And especially like in in this series, I mean, there's multiple episodes where that comes out, and and it even came out, you know, in the first three, also, but it it gets uh it gets pretty wild.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Well, I think that the reason that I say that is it's not it's not because like I guess it's the fault of the the order that they did everything in in the Marvel universe, right? Um now had they when they introduced Spider-Man into Marvel, had they started on the street level with Fisk where the the cartoon and the comics were, where it's like, okay, well, Fisk was doing stuff about it, or Kingpin, so to speak, was creating Scorpion and bringing in all these street level supervillains to battle Spider-Man, right? Which built him up and made him stronger and stronger and more matured for becoming a more planetary hero, right? But they just skipped all that, went straight to battling people like Thanos, and now they're trying to reel them back in to the mayor of New York City fighting, and it's just you should have started there and it would have been better, just I guess in the order of things, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:10

I could see that. I could see that, yeah. Um, yeah, you know, the other thing though, too, is like they're not really of the same era, you know. I mean, Fisk is what, like three times the age of uh Spider-Man, Spider-Man, at least, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah, Spider-Man, I think his character is supposed to be like not even 20. He just graduated high school, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah, yeah. So they're they're just they're fundamentally different. Like you just have to accept that in this world you're you're watching something that's like through like a the color of like Cabernet wine, right? Like that's that's what Daredevil is. It's not it's not a bright blue sky on a nice day, and we're gonna make jokes about each other. Like, that's not what this is, it's very different.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

I either way, I'm I'm sure I'll start to enjoy it a little bit more. I think that it's just picking up slow. That's all. And the whole I don't want to be a hero anymore kind of angle. It's not unique to this show. I've seen it in other hero shows and stuff like that, where they're like, you know, I don't, I'm not the hero anymore. And they kind of put that that side of the character aside, and then you watch half a movie, for example, where they're not that character. Like, this sucks. Like, I came to watch Spider-Man, not fucking Peter Parker for two-thirds of the movie, right? You know what I'm saying? Like I'm watching Daredevil here, not yeah, not you know, so but it's it's not a unique storyline. It there's been dozens of variations of that over over the years, um, and I think it works, but a lot of times they drag it out too long, yeah. And it's like get the story moving here, right? Like, we get it, he's hurt, his friend died, he doesn't want to be daredevil anymore. But have something force the envelope a little bit faster, right? Like, don't put me through, I'm not saying they do because I haven't seen enough episodes, but don't put me through half a season where he's just not daredevil. Then I'm like, this fucking sucks, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Well, well, I I think the thing though is at the end of the day, he's daredevil again, and his suit that he has in this one is better than his suit that he had in the first three.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

So does he have a let me ask you this does he have a different suit when he finally becomes Daredevil again than he did at the beginning of the first episode where he's battling uh bullseye?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

I think so. Yeah, I think so. It's uh his suit in this one's like really, really cool. Like I always kind of thought in the first huh?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Does it have like yellow on it and red and no, no?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

This one is it's like uh it's like a dark blue almost, like a dark blue with red in it. Interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, when he did a cameo on She-Hulk, he was in about three or four episodes, and um he had a a new outfit for that too. It was like a yellow, and he had the classic red that he wears, that that almost maroon red, but there was like a um there was also some parts of it that were like a mustard yellow combined with the red. So it was it was a different kind of an outfit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, in the uh in the first season, I thought that was kind of funny. I don't know if you ever saw this. One of the guys that I think he had worked for Fisk, and that's how he found him. He was like this crazy dude that made the suit for him, and and it was something about like him protecting Betsy or something like that, and getting this suit, and and the guy was like a complete psycho that made the suit. But um, you know, I thought like his suit in the first one was cool, but this one is like way better, way better. Um, it's pretty neat. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Uh I'm looking forward to seeing it. Um, I do I'm I'm not the kind of guy that gives up on a show because the first few episodes are kind of slow. So I mean I'm I'm not worried about that. Uh I've seen some of my favorite shows started that way. So you know, I'm gonna keep it going and it could turn into one of my favorite. There's only two seasons right now, though.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Yeah, so far.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

So I was but so are you familiar with Bullseye? Do you know him? Yeah. Yeah. So he they kind of introduced him, I think, I think it was season three of the first three that he came to light. Um and he kind of took it a in a in a new direction. He's a very dark character, too.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Well, I assume that's who I assumed that that's who Daredevil was fighting in the first episode that killed Foggy. Yes, yes, because he was just he's just knives like a porcupine from all this.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I I don't remember if it was the first episode when he battles him on the roof. Was that the first episode?

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah, like uh right, probably two-thirds, maybe more, of the first episode is him and bullseye fighting the whole episode, pretty much. It's just it starts downstairs, it ends on the roof.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, it so in season three of the first three, uh, Bullseye was almost like stronger than Daredevil for a lot of that, and even at the end of that, I mean it was kind of like Daredevil barely pulled out a win uh against him, and so they're very um evenly matched. And so he comes back in in this series and he's in seasons one and two so far, and um yeah, he he's a very kind of out there character too. He's kind of squirrely and odd, and you don't really know what he's thinking half the time or what he's doing. Um but yeah, he's he's got that just insane ability to like he's very accurate throwing knives and whatever else.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, well, hence the name, right? Now Electra. Her character was in the older episodes or the older versions of the show, but uh, I haven't seen uh hide nor hair of her yet. I don't know if you will. Did they kill her in the in the old shows?

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yes, yeah. So so she uh was killed, and then they tried to, as I recall, bring her back to life as the they had a name for um God, what was the name they called her? I can't think of the name, but anyway, they put her in like this coffin thing, like filled with weird dirt and stuff, and it was like she came back to life, like dark. Um, but back then that's also when they kind of had that integration with the iron fist and specifically the hand. So the hand was uh Madame Gao, and and she was in those episodes too, and and a lot of it was like crossover where in multiple scenes he was battling like this never-ending line of ninjas, and they're all like part of the hand, you know. That was that was pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

You know what's interesting uh that now that you mentioned that, another potential crossover to Spider-Man's new movie is you and I talked about the trailer a few weeks back. Who is Spider-Man battling in a in a scene from the trailer? A bunch of ninjas. Is that the crossover to the hand? Yes, yes, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Yeah, that that could get very interesting. You know, the funny thing with the hand is that I think the hand was introduced in Daredevil, but really their their storyline, I think, was more in the iron fist. And for for whatever reason, um a lot of people didn't really care for the iron fist, but I thought the iron fist was awesome. I loved that show. I thought it was really good.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah, I didn't even I didn't even watch a single show.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

See, you never even saw it.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

You're like, uh it did not look interesting to me at all.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

This sucks, this is terrible.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I still have to catch up on the Punisher episodes, to be honest with you. So uh from what I understand, that was that's a very dark show as well. So, but I have to watch it now that I'm watching Daredevil, I have to get the whole story, right? I need I need a 360 here, man. And I'm telling you right now, I I've hint, I've I've kind of brushed on this crossover, but or the transition thing I've been talking about. But I gotta say, it might be this movie, it might be the new Spider-Man movie, but there's no way they're gonna have Murdoch playing Peter Parker's lawyer, have the Punisher in the new Spider-Man movie and not eventually have the Daredevil in the Spider-Man movies. I just don't believe that they're they're teasing it.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah, yeah. How do you not? Well, you you know how Marvel works, right? I mean, they they want to have that announcement on Comic Con that somebody's on stage and it, you know, just like when they brought out Robert Downey as Doom, same deal. You know, they agree.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah, so they gotta make a big thing about it. I I find though that whenever Marvel does something, whether it's a movie or show, and they don't do it with the broader uh kind of implications that affect the giant storyline they're doing over here from the entire Marvel cinematic universe, even on some of the shows, right? Like uh WandaVision and stuff like that. When they don't follow that script and they don't think how is this going to affect what we're doing over here, this usually sucks. But when they do it in relation to the broader storyline, it usually works out pretty good, and it seems like they're they are doing that, they're starting to bring that in over here. And I hope, I hope that they do bring uh Fisk Kingpin into the Spider-Man movies, and you know that becomes some sort of an issue uh there as well because what a great character to bring into the Marvel Cinematic universe.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yeah, he's uh he's unstoppable, truthfully. I mean he's he's got the like I said, his brutality is just kind of off the charts for for Fisk, and I do like that he's at that local level.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yeah, but here's the thing, in the comics and cartoons, he was actually really, really strong.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

You know, he wasn't some some pushover weak dude who could just get punched once and go down, like you know, like he is stronger than Daredevil, even from past battles I've seen in comics, cartoons, and I mean that of course the the Ben Affleck rendition of Daredevil, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Well, you know what I gotta tell you, and you're probably not gonna like me saying this. You almost have to go back, watch the Netflix shows, and then roll it into Daredevil, and that that would give you a whole new perspective of this whole side of the world, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And I might and I might do that, really. I mean, sometimes I just get in a mood and I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna watch the entire first season of the Daredevil, right? And uh the only downside to Born Again is that it's not on Netflix for me. So I had to watch, I have to pull it up on my Android box to watch it. I thought it was on Netflix, but it's not.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

No, it's on Disney.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Disney Plus, probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yeah, so so that was the big shift that happened. So all of the original shows were because of Marvel's deal with Netflix, and then Disney bought Marvel, and they stopped all of them. So they all stopped, and now Disney has them all of the all of those shows are now available on the Disney app, and then Daredevil Born Again is on the Disney app.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yeah, we had we had like uh Netflix and Disney Plus and Amazon, and we had everything, and then I was like, you know what, man? I just went out and got an Android box from a friend of mine, and I just I have everything on on one box for like 150 bucks a year or something like that. So I'm like, so I'll just stick with that. Right? I'm not paying for Disney Plus and Ampere. Paramount and Amazon and Netflix for like one show here, one show there.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

That's exactly how I am.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Yeah, it's a it's a pain in the ass. So we need a streaming service that just gives you everything, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Oh, that's that's an impossible task, though. Um, but what you know what is kind of nice is that um Disney, the Disney app is really starting now to incorporate more of Hulu and more um like the sports and all that stuff. They're kind of incorporating more. So e there's even stuff on there now, like you can watch all the old X-Files episodes on Disney Plus. You know, that originally was on Fox. So I don't know how that happened. They're good, they're really good.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah, they're ahead of their time, that's for sure. Oh it was like a huge show back then.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Well, well, you know what I really liked about it is that uh you know, back then you had to watch it on kind of primetime TV. The X-Files was on on Sunday night at like eight o'clock, and you'd have all the commercials and all that stuff. Now you don't have any of that. So now, like when you watch it, like the episodes actually flow. And then what I really liked about watching it streaming is you can sort of see an episode that's let's say it's episode two or three, and there's like 20 in the season, all of a sudden something will come back up like episode 15 that you never would have caught way back when that was running live.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Well, it had been months since you saw that. Yeah, you'd have to really, yeah, you'd have to like record it on your VHS and watch it back over and over again, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, though, but I would tell you, I think I think with Daredevil, I think that Charlie Cox is probably the best Daredevil actor we've had. I think uh, you know, believe it or not, unpopular take. I did kind of like the Ben Affleck Daredevil. Yeah. Um I don't know. I just I liked him, you know. Um it wasn't terrible, and you know he's better as Batman, but but yeah. I mean, I I I don't know if I truly like him in either one. Like I kind of liked him in the uh what was it? It was called Air, the movie about Nike where he was like the founder of Nike. I kind of liked him in that.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Yeah, I don't I don't mind Ben Affect. Him him and uh uh him and Matt Damon just did another movie for Netflix. I watched where they're playing cops. I can't remember what it's called, but it was actually decent.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

So yeah, and and Matt Damon actually is coming out in the uh Odyssey. That looks wild, the movie. That's gonna be one you're gonna need to review.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

What was it? I watched an interview with Matt Damon. Sorry to get off topic here, but Matt Damon, he turned down a role. What was it? Ah damn it. It was uh it was a big role he turned down, and they offered him like I don't even know, like 20, 25% for pay of of like forever of the of what that movie brings in, right? And he said uh he would have been like a multi-billion. What was it again? Was it oh it's gonna bug me. It's a huge role. I'll I'll find it anyway. I'll I'll look it up while we're talking because it's gonna bug me now. He it's the biggest role he ever regretted turning down. Um anyway.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Well, you you know what's interesting? You know, you and I have talked about before, he's one of those actors that they could bring into the MCU, they could bring him in, even something darker like a Daredevil. He normally never plays that kind of character. Um he'd be somebody that'd be kind of neat to incorporate into this thing.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Avatar. He turned down Avatar. He turned down the lead role in Avatar. Oh man, man, Facepalm, what were you thinking? Yeah, and they offered him, it wasn't even like a set amount. They offered him a percentage of gross that the movie makes. He's like, I dude, I would have been like, he's like, biggest regret I ever I ever uh biggest role I ever turned down. He's like, I'd be a multi-billionaire right now from the money I would have made from from the Avatar movies.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

You know the guy that's the director of that one. Um everything he touches like turns to gold, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Spielberg.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

No, not Spielberg. He you know, he did Terminator also. Um James Cameron. Cameron.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Oh, yeah, yeah, James Cameron.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yeah, so yeah, yeah. I I mean turning down a James Cameron movie, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Well, I think the reason he did it was he said it was a conflict of his schedule or something. He's like, dude, I would have dropped the other movie.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Well, you know, one thing I would say, so kind of getting us back on track here with Daredevil. Um, I do think the roles that these actors and actresses are playing in this show. I mean, this this is like their role. Like you and I talk about this all the time, right? Like, if I see Charlie Cox in anything now, he's Daredevil. If I see D'Nafrio in anything, he's Kingpin. You know, same thing with Karen Page. I mean, that's who she is now. She's Karen Page. So it's like embrace it and let's type. What's that?

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Your cast type.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, let's let's keep it keep it going, you know. And I think I really like that they brought it back to begin with, right? Like they didn't have to do that. And I think that at the time, kind of going back in time, there was kind of a hole in Marvel that they didn't really have like Marvel for adults, right? And it's like, yeah, I get it, you know, you're releasing new shows, and I didn't I didn't really care for WandaVision, and you know, and then it's yeah, I I don't know. Everybody said WandaVision was good. I don't know, I didn't really like it.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Um absolutely terrible.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Exactly, right? And then the, you know, the one with the the girl, um, like the the younger girl that was like a Marvel character, and I I feel like there's there's there's a lot of like kind of weird offshoot Marvel stuff that Disney did where it's it's like I get it you're trying to make it wholesome and appeal to different demographics, but you're kind of like losing the core fan base with some, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah, it was like that Miss Marvel teenager girl is like it's like they were trying to make a Miley Cyrus version, like but the Disney Miley Cyrus, right version of Miss Marvel. It's like, what the hell are you doing? No one, no one, no adult is gonna watch that.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah, it exactly, exactly. And so when I heard that they were bringing back Daredevil, I was like, oh my god, like this this is awesome. And I would love it if they could bring back, even if they don't give them their own show, bring back some of those other characters from that era, right? And I I think um I think in season two that Jessica Jones is back, but I haven't seen her yet. Um, and it so it kind of looks like they might be doing that, but I do have to say with the girl that plays Jessica Jones, that at the time that I saw her as Jessica Jones, I hadn't yet watched Breaking Bad. And now that I've watched Breaking Bad, now I can only see her as a role in Breaking Bad.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Same thing with what's his name, uh Walter White there. Same thing. You know, even though he's actually really funny in like comedies and stuff like that, still you're Walter White. You're throwing, you're throwing a whole pizza on your garage. I'm sorry. That's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

I know, I know. Did did you ever see that movie he did where it was uh it was like uh Jerry and Marge go large or something like that, and it was all about them. Uh he was like a math teacher that figured out how to beat the lottery, and so they they have this like huge operation that scales up of like 30 people that are like doing scratch-offs to like to beat the lottery. Yeah, I think that was on uh God, what was that? I think it might have been on Peacock. I think Peacock had that one. Um again, you know, like you said, streamers. I got peacock too. I I got all of them.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yeah, absolutely. Who watches cable TV anymore? Come on.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, I would just say I think with Daredevil that you you really gotta you gotta keep pushing, man. You gotta get through some of these episodes are very, very good. And it it it definitely gets better. I I think you know, when when they started off, they kind of had to blow up where it came from and take it on a new path. And now they're they're like building that is kind of where you're at, is this kind of slow build of everything.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Yeah, I'll I'll keep going for sure. I look forward to another episode maybe uh maybe a week or two from now where we kind of go back on it after I've seen maybe uh maybe I'll complete the first season and we'll see where we're at, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Yeah, that well, like I said, especially the White Tiger episode. You've really, really gotta watch that one. That that one I if I had to give that episode a grade out of like 10 points, that'd be a 10 out of 10 on that one.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Really? Yeah, check it out. It's very good. That's that's gonna be tonight's episode, I think. Like I said, it's the next episode on the list. I've seen from the um from the like I said, the thumbnail of the of the show. I seen white uh I mean a person in a white suit fighting, so I'm assuming that's white tiger.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

So yeah, yeah. But you'll have to let me know what you think about after after all of it, kind of when you get towards the end of the season. So yeah, let's circle back on this one.

unknown 54:08

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Well, to sum it up for me, um slow start, but I look forward to uh I look forward to them ramping it up. I I like the acting in the show. I think the acting is is fantastic so far. I think that's what's really kept me kind of interested is is the people the casting has been fantastic so far. And uh storyline's slow, but uh the storyline is interesting. Yeah, yeah, there's less raining. Less sulking, sorry, less sulking. Less sulking, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

And I think I think the other thing is you have to you gotta watch Daredevil from the from the lens of street level. So forget about the MCU and just follow the plot, you know.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

That's what I'm gonna try to do tonight. All right, man. Well, those are my final thoughts. Uh you got any further? Is that uh is that sum it up for you?

SPEAKER_01 55:16

No, I think that's a wrap on this one. So uh pretty sure we got an episode, a new episode coming around Sunday. Um looking forward to that. I got a few ideas for some for some kind of fun topics for that one.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Perfect. Yeah, I have one that I'd like to break down as well. We'll talk about that one off camera. But uh all right. Well, that concludes another episode of the Paradigm Shift. We will see you on Sunday. Uh, if you're watching on YouTube, make sure you uh like and subscribe to the channel. Help us grow, help us go. If you're watching, if you're listening over on Spotify, Apple, or anywhere else, uh make sure you give us a five star review. It'd be greatly appreciated. And let us know what you guys think. We'll see you in the next one. God bless you. Alrighty, shift out.