Paradigm Shift
The Everything Podcast, hosted by the dynamic duo Rob and Jesse, is your weekly dose of unfiltered conversations that truly cover everything—from the latest crypto market rollercoasters and tech breakthroughs to wild life stories, random hot takes, and whatever absurd rabbit hole the hosts tumble down next. With Rob's sharp, no-BS insights and Jesse's laid-back humor keeping things grounded yet unpredictable, each episode feels like kicking back with two old friends who aren't afraid to dive deep, roast bad ideas, or just geek out over the weirdest corners of culture and current events. Whether you're into finance, memes, or pure chaos, it's the show that somehow makes it all connect.
Paradigm Shift
Paradigm Shift: 10 Hitler conspiracy theories
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Follow Big Rob & Jesse Down The WW2 Rabbit hole As We Dive Into The Top 10 Hitler conspiracy theories,
All right, welcome back to another episode of the Paradigm Shift. I am, of course, Big Rob coming back at you alongside my partner of crime. Jesse, what's happening, man?
SPEAKER_00Hey man, uh, pretty sure off camera you were Big Batman and uh I was Robin. Uh dynamic duo coming at you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, where were we when this next topic, right? When this next topic happened, where were we? How you feeling about this one, man?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm I'm excited for this one. You know, uh the World War II rabbit hole is one that uh it never stops giving. And it yeah, I mean, there are so many crevices and cracks, and you know, even to this day, I feel like we really don't know a lot of it. Um, yeah, you know, even like I don't know if you ever uh see any like the like every once in a while there will be a random article like in in the news, and it'll be like, hey, you know, somebody in Austria found a abandoned Nazi something or other. They don't know what's down there if it's booby trapped and this and that, and you're like, What? You know, it's like there's so much we don't know, and so that's why I think today's topic is gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's why they make so many movies about it, too, right? So uh it's gonna be a good one, man. There's some good rabbit holes we're gonna dive down, some pretty realistic, some a little out there, but fun nonetheless. You got any thoughts before we get into it?
SPEAKER_00Any any thoughts ahead of time? Um, I would just say that uh, you know, as a as a guy in his 40s, I I for whatever reason have fallen into the rabbit hole of World War II. And um, whenever it's on, whether it's you know, like a a show, a documentary, uh, like something like Band of Brothers, I am always just fascinated by it. So um it's it's it's a it's an interesting topic, you know. I mean, I don't know if we've truly had like a war at the caliber of World War II since, and um it it just just crazy time, you know.
SPEAKER_01It's definitely a very nuanced topic, and I think there's gonna be multiple episodes covering this because there are many different rabbit holes to go down today. Very polarizing one, obviously, we're gonna revolve around Hitler himself and all the top 10 conspiracy theories involved in Adolf Hitler. So, if that sounds good to you, or I mean it's not good, but I mean, you know what I mean. Give us a five-star review, right? Starting off with number one, guys, Hitler escaped to Argentina or elsewhere in South America. The most popular theory, it claims Hitler and Eva Braun left the bunker via tunnels or U-boats, reached Argentina with help from uh figures like Juan Perron and lived in hiding sometimes at specific sites like uh an Alco House.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Into the 1950s andor 60s, books such as Grey Wolf and the History Channel series, Hunting Hitler, promoted versions of this declassified FBI and CIA files contain unverified sightings reported, but no confirmations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And and and let me just say that um man, this one here. Uh, did did you watch Hunting Hitler when it was on uh History Channel?
SPEAKER_01I did not.
SPEAKER_00Okay. It is fascinating. So basically, where where Hunting Hitler kind of starts is that there's this like treasure trove of old documents from, like I said, uh, you know, FBI, CIA, Interpol, etc., kind of all over the world from all of the primary intelligence services at that time. And all of them were looking for him. That's what all these documents say. They're all looking for him. And why are they looking for him? Well, they're looking for him because there's no body. Okay. So what this theory kind of goes into with Hunting Hitler was okay, so let's theoretically say that he got away. Is it possible? Right, and that's kind of what the show explored was if he didn't actually die in the bunker, how would he have gotten away from the bunker? Are there tunnels to get from that bunker out of Berlin? Because remember, the the Allies, uh, the Russians, you know, everybody was closing in on Berlin at that point in time, right? And so what they were able to prove in that show was that yes, there were tunnels that could get to Tempelhof Airport and uh get somebody out of that bunker. And what was interesting on the show, I remember one of the episodes they went into like, I think it was the subway, and sure enough, they found where there was a hollow wall where, you know, initially there was a door or something that was behind this like tiled over wall, and and it was obviously still there, right? And so apparently at the time that this happened, um the main um kind of like the main road there at Berlin that goes to the Brandenburg Gate. Today it's it's got like these various uh kind of like light posts that line it that are real fancy, you know. But back then they were all removed. So they they proved that they that also may have been used as a runway for a plane ferrying you out, right? And so in this show, they kind of showed that okay, is it possible to get out of Berlin even in the chaos of all of that? Yes, it was. And it's like, where do you go from there? And so the show kind of went down the rabbit hole of all right, how do you get out of here? You kind of need like a new ID, something. And they were able to track down through documentation where the Vatican Church, via the Red Cross, was giving all of these fleeing Nazis new IDs. Okay. So this is how they end up getting out of there, and they refer to this as a rat line. And then from the rat line, it's like, okay, well, where do you go? You go to countries that are sympathetic to your cause. So at the time, you know, obviously there uh Italy was kind of in play, aka the Vatican, right? Then you had Spain that was in play, and then where do you go from there? Well, you go down to South America because the South American countries like Argentina, Chile, uh, Paraguay, Uruguay, they they were sympathetic to the fleeing Nazis. And so the question was okay, well, you don't have enough gas in the plane to get all the way there, but you theoretically you could get to somewhere like Spain, right? But how do you get from Spain to South America? That's where the U-boats come in.
SPEAKER_01Well, I have a couple of thoughts on this personally. The first would have to be um if the CIA and FBI files are saying that they were looking for him still, that's kind of confirmation in itself. If they don't think that the body they found was him to the point where they were willing to fund the continuation of a search for him, well, I mean, for me, that kind of tells me what they thought. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01If they knew it was his body and they were confident that it was his body, and that they got him, they wouldn't be searching anymore.
SPEAKER_00Well, what you gotta remember though is there's suspicion here because the Russians supposedly found the body, not not the allies. So it it was it was the Russians that got there first. So that's that's kind of where the suspicion starts.
SPEAKER_01And we are gonna unpack that, so stick a pin in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Now, some something else though, worth worth mentioning here is that with the U-boats, there are scuttled U-boats all over the planet, right? And so it's kind of like, did they use these U-boats to get to South America? Did they scuttle them at some point? Are they still down there? Is there evidence? And by all accounts, it seems like yes. There's various different points where U-boats were and where U-boats were sunk. Now, what where it really gets interesting is you know, you had mentioned like the Enalco uh house. Like there was there was a house in the jungle, and then there was also another one that is in an area of South America that really kind of looks like the Bavarian part of Germany, like it's big mountains, it's kind of cold climate, you know, all these things, right? And at the at the jungle house, what's crazy about it is when they when they were there for hunting Hitler, they found um old bottles of it was like stomach medicine, right? And apparently Hitler had a stomach ulcer at the time. And so this is one of those controversial things. It's like, why the hell do we have this stomach ulcer medicine unless maybe it was him? Now, obviously, that doesn't conclusively say anything, but around that jungle house, they also had lots of uh outposts for um that were like tactical military type outposts. Like clearly they're guarding a high-value target. Yeah. Yes. And and then where that that house was in that area that kind of resembles Bavaria, it's right on this huge lake. And again, it was in an area where there were multiple outposts to like protect it from the outside, should somebody find out about it. Now, none of that conclusively says it was Hitler that was there. Um, but it does say that somebody very high ranking was there. And so who would it be? Because when you're looking at like the the head Nazis, um, you know, the other big one, Goring, he was captured, right? So it wasn't him. Uh, but Hitler's uh arguable um like kind of right-hand man, Martin Bormann, disappeared. It absolutely could have been him for sure. Uh, but but again, you know, if you think about like just the idea of like uh even like in Russia today with Putin, he has multiple body doubles, multiple. And I know we're gonna get into this in a minute, but if you think about it, and and if you think about Nazi Germany, one thing that they always did was they meticulously planned, right? All of their infrastructure they built was with concrete that was like eight feet thick for walls, like everything was planned to the nth degree. There was backup plans for everything. So you're telling me that your leader of the entire pyramid, you're gonna let him get encircled and he's just gonna kill himself.
SPEAKER_01That's that kind of segues into my second thought is exactly that is that do you really, really think there was no escape plan? There was no for for Hitler himself, right? There was no plan, no, you know, contingencies, nothing. It was just all crap. I guess we're surrounded.
SPEAKER_00Boom. Yeah, bur Berlin or bust, right? Like, if I can't take Berlin, I'm done. Come on now. Come on.
SPEAKER_01No, he he definitely was not a man who didn't enjoy being alive, right? Guarantee you that people of like that will always have a contingency plan, a backup plan to save themselves at the end of the day. Self-preservation in a person like that would be prevalent.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And and and think about this too. Like, you know, you you you you kind of hit the nail on the head. A man like that, right? Like, he wrote Mein Kampf, that was like his, you know, thing that he was putting out there, you know, that he's just been dwelling on and thinking about all night long and and writing this manifesto, right? Likewise, in all of his speeches, they were the same way, right? Like this is how the Nazi Party grew was that he was very charismatic and he really captured like the make Nazi Germany great again vibe, which sounds a little familiar today, but that's exactly what he was going for because after World War I, they were like punished and they were like down in the dumps, and and it spoke to the the common people. And I here's a guy that's like passionate and he's out there saying all this shit. Now, the irony was his actual resume was complete dog shit, it was garbage. I mean, his like he he didn't do anything that qualified him to be in this role, but but it was his passion that really kind of got these people behind him. And so my point is that if you have a guy that is that passionate, that could write this manifesto, that could do these crazy long speeches, that's just thinking about this stuff endlessly round the clock, and you're telling me that when it came to the very end, he didn't have any plan. There was just nothing. Nope. Yeah, I mean, come on, that doesn't align with this guy. He would have had like eight escape plans, if not more, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, there was probably A, B, C, D, E, F, all the way to Z in terms of escape plans. I absolutely agree with you on that. Everywhere he went, not just in Berlin, everywhere he went, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So absolutely, and you know, something else at that point in time was there had already been multiple assassination attempts on him, right? Like uh, there was that Tom Cruise movie Valkyrie. That was an example one where they tried to blow him up with a bomb. I think they tried to poison him at one time, so he was already paranoid. And you're telling me that he just he just said, That's it, you know, bunker, here we are.
SPEAKER_01Come on, I trusted.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, and and that was what we got officially. We got trust me, bro.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, bro, he's gone, which is always the case with the government, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01For all we know, I'm just putting this out there. For all we know, he ended up being an informant or something for the government and was captured and locked away forever, right?
SPEAKER_00For all we know, he could have been an informant for years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, going to number two on the list: a secret Nazi base in Antarctica. Theories allege the Nazis built an inpregnable, pregnant, pregnantable, pre impregnable, um, fortress in Queen Maud Land or similar areas in the 1930s and 40s. Hitler supposedly fled there by submarine. Some versions add that aligned for forces later destroyed the base. Uh a 1943 statement by Admiral Karl Don Donitz is often misquoted in support.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this you know, this one is kind of like this is weird. This is a weird one. This is maybe weirder than what it sounds like on the surface. So I don't know if you've heard about this, and the again, this topic could be an episode in itself, but there's a certain um longitudinal line, I think is what it is down there. One of the lines on the on the planet, basically. Uh, all of the countries of the planet have sort of agreed that they're not going beyond this line. I don't know if you've heard this story. And and it so this tends to come up in like UFO lore. And it's like, why why did all the countries on the planet just sort of agree that we're not going to cross a certain line to go into Antarctica? Like, again, kind of like when you and I did the episode on did we land on the moon or not? It there's something really weird here. Why would all the countries on Earth just sort of agree we're not going to explore a certain area? That makes no sense. And so that's kind of where this like Nazi base theory comes into play. And at the time, you know, the Nazis were expanding, they were global, they did have the U-boats. Um, they had the ability to build these insane bunkers. So could they have had a base in Antarctica? Absolutely. Um, is it something that is sustainable though? No, I don't think so. I mean, you know, uh, how do you how do you get food to it? You know, what are you gonna live on? How's that gonna work? Like the logistics of it fall apart, but there there is something that's really weird with that area of the planet that like all the countries on earth just sort of agreed we're not gonna we're not gonna let go there.
SPEAKER_01That yeah, that is strange. I agree with you though. Very, very good point. How do you how do you maintain um resources in a remote place like that unnoticed, right? That's the difficult thing, right? Your food, everything. So yes, yeah, yeah, unsustainable. I agree a hundred percent temporarily, obviously, but um, I don't know. That's kind of a stretch for me personally. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00I I I think it it sounds neat as a theory, but when you actually practically look at the supporting infrastructure, it it's not there. You don't have the supporting infrastructure, so any time type of long-term viability, no. Could it have been some sort of temporary point? Maybe, but it's so far south, it's so hard to get to, it's so treacherous, it's so far out of the way. It I I think we could probably strike that one from the list.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it doesn't seem worth it. Yeah, number three. You want to talk about remote Nazi moon base? Woo! The moon. Now that how do you get resources there? Fringe claims say German scientists under Hitler developed advanced rocketry far beyond the V2 and established a base on the moon, sometimes the dark side as early as the 1940s. Hitler is said to have escaped there. This overlaps with broader Nazi UFO lore, which we will get into later as well. What do you say, bud? Is Hitler on the moon waiting? Biden is time, is he eating cheese?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so every good conspiracy theory has a little bit of truth in it, but then at some point it goes a little too far. I think this is one of those, right? So did Hitler make it to the moon? No, he did not make it to the moon. Now, on the other hand, Werner von Braun, did he invent the V2 rocket that supposedly put Americans on the moon?
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's true. Which we established in another episode.
SPEAKER_00No, probably not true, but he did he did make a rocket that theoretically could get out of the atmosphere and get into space, right? The v2 rocket. Um, and at the time in World War II, it was I think it was the V1, and then they had the V2, and and uh they lobbed them into the United Kingdom to kill as many people as possible. That's what they were used for first. Okay, great. And by the way, they were made with uh slave labor from the Jews who were used as slaves. Okay. So now that we've established that part, um also worth mentioning the first head of uh NASA, no, sorry, the first head of uh I think it was Kennedy Space Center. He was also a Nazi. A lot of Nazis came to the U.S. via Operation Paperclip after the war. But going back to this one, is there a base on the moon? I think the logistics are far too difficult, especially at that point in time. Um, you know, the the Allies were doing bombing runs over Germany uh regularly. Uh, I don't know if you ever saw um after Banda Brothers in the Pacific, they did Masters of Air, which is on Apple TV. Short little plug to that one, not sponsored by us, or not they don't sponsor us, but I'm I'm I'm just gonna say Masters of Air, fantastic show. So it was all about the air raids in World War II, and they were there in Germany constantly trying. To carpet bomb them and all these things. And so I don't know how you would be able to consistently launch rockets that would go to the moon to actually build the base, to actually, like we just said with Antarctica, it's so far away. The logistics, the keeping this thing together. I mean, the book The Martian, as far as I'm aware, didn't come out until well after this to learn how to you know grow potatoes or whatever. So I yeah, I don't see it happening.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean? The Martian's based on actual events, isn't it? Hey, trust me, bro. Right. Trust me, bro. Favorite line from the movie on a side note. I don't mean to brag, but I am the best botanist on the planet. Nice. Uh, so I think we've uh safely established that moon base. I mean, if if Antarctica is a bridge too far, I think that the moon base is maybe uh yeah, you know, a spaceship too far. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Number four, a body double died in the bunker. The charred remains found after the 30th of April 1945 belonged to a look-alike while the real Hitler escaped. Some versions say plastic surgery or a double was prepared in advance, which oh, we'll talk about it. Soviet statements, the Russians, in 1945, that the uh the body was a quote unquote poor double helped seed the idea. And you said that the Russians were the ones who found his body in the first place, and from their reports, it was a poor body double.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, this is an interesting one. So Russia, um, even even to this day, is a country that puts out disinformation regularly. Regularly. Yeah, no, no, not Russia, right? Not Russia. Come on, right, yeah, yeah, they do. Um, okay. So Russia supposedly found these charred remains, and one of the things that they held on to for shit, like 50 years, was the skull fragment that had a bullet hole in it, right? And they said, this is proof. This is Hitler's skull and it's got the bullet hole. Okay. Well, obviously, back then they didn't have the DNA technology they do today, but today they they do have technology to test this. And ultimately they did test it. And when they did, it turned out the skull fragment was found. Uh, it was from a woman, it was not a man's head. Okay. Now, the other parts of this that are very interesting was that wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_01Maybe he identified as a woman.
SPEAKER_00He may have. I would not put that past him. I mean, he was way out there, right? This could be true. I who knows. Um, but here's the other interesting parts. So they also found a jawbone fragment. Okay. Now, the jawbone, who do you think identified it as being Hitler's?
SPEAKER_01Well, from what I read, not the Russians.
SPEAKER_00The Germans not the Russians, but it was uh if if you can imagine this, Hitler's dentist said, Yeah, that's his jawbone. Okay. And it gets better. Um the the only supposed, I think it was the only witness to this whole thing uh that supposedly saw uh Hitler and Eva Braun uh commit suicide was Hitler's driver.
SPEAKER_01Did he later get Epstein?
SPEAKER_00You know, I honestly I don't even know the story of what happened to him. But the when you add it all together here, we have a skull fragment with a bullet hole that's a woman's head. We've got uh a jawbone that the dentist says was his, but we can't verify either way. Uh so very circumstantial. And then we have an eyewitness report from somebody who was his personal bodyguard.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna find out right now what happened to his driver.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01What happened to the witness, but um continuing on with that while uh while I'm searching up the answer, yeah. Uh this kind of goes along with uh number one, which kind of continues to flow with what we're kind of thinking here is that he did not, in fact, die in that bunker, and that it was a very poor again. The evidence is starting to mount up of making you think. Why would the FBI and CIA in reports continue looking for his continue looking for him afterwards? Right? Why would the Russians specifically use the words in their report being the ones that found the body that it was a poor double? And then his own dentist says, Trust me, bro, it's his jaw.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's starting to mound up to maybe not, right?
SPEAKER_00Maybe not, maybe not, but for that era, you know, going back in time. I mean, this is what 80, 90 years ago, uh, at that point in time, you could kind of get away with a lot of this. So even the the skull fragment with the bullet hole, I mean, they didn't test that until gosh, six sixty years later, plus, you know. So you can kind of see how the Russians were able to say, no, no, no, we got him, we got him. And then eventually somebody over there finally let DNA scientists test this thing, and lo and behold, no, no, you didn't. That wasn't him, you know.
SPEAKER_01So Rokus Mitch, if I read that right, uh was the last surviving person who saw the bodies shortly after the suicide. He was captured by the Soviets, spent nine years in prison camps, then lived quietly in Berlin until he died in 2013 at the age of 96. Wow. So that's that was the that was the witness. That was his uh that was his end. So so yeah, everything's kind of flowing through how we you know are kind of you know uh paradigm shift is solving another one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Now now I we haven't officially solved it yet, so I know we still got a few more to go down, but I would say again, if he was there, you're going to have his stomach ulcer medicine, right? Um, you're gonna have capabilities, right? Uh, I mean, period. You you're not gonna put the figurehead of the third reich in a box that is inescapable, right?
SPEAKER_01No, you're not. So to reverse our theory, the exact opposite of what we think is happening here, he died, then went to the moon. He died and then went to the moon. So far, that's what's happened. Um, number five, Hitler had Jewish ancestry. A long-running rumor popularized after the war by Hitler's lawyer, Hans Frank, claims Hitler's paternal grandmother became pregnant while working for a Jewish family in Graz, making Hitler one quarter Jewish, Jewish. Recent DNA analysis of blood from the bunker sofa matched and confirmed Hitler uh relative on the Y chromosome line and found no supporting evidence of Jewish ancestry.
SPEAKER_00So, okay, wait a minute. The problem with this one is you're assuming that he did die in the bunker, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there you go. There's the linchpin. If it wasn't his DNA.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what what are we even looking at here? How can we prove that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what are we testing, right? It could have been his driver's DNA or whatever body double it was.
SPEAKER_00You know, the uh the former psych major in me, uh, what I think about things like this is you know, like you hear these stories of like the uh you know, these like misogynistic, really misogynistic guys, and then it turns out that actually they they're gay, right? Or you know, you hear these stories like this, like like, you know, the the hardest core guy, you know, is actually you know cross-dressing late at night in his room and filming it or whatever. And and so, you know, this thing with Hitler of like he hates the Jews and they're the worst, and that's the villain, and he's actually Jewish. I could kind of see that. I could kind of see it, you know. I mean, he needs a boogeyman to go after uh to to basically he needed the boogeyman to get all of the slave labor. That's what he really needed here, you know. And uh, you know, obviously they stole all their wealth and everything else they could steal as well.
SPEAKER_01But kind of right, the story kind of writes itself, yeah. So I I uh I do I would I would uh I would agree with this. I I do think it would be possible. I mean, just takes take the the English and the Scots, for example, right? I mean, whenever you have one powers, uh one one race or one power oppressing another, you do have that crossbreeding, you do have that uh, you know, that that men in in, for example, English forcing themselves on the Scottish wives the night before wedding, or I'm I'm sure something very, very similar happened and was very common dur throughout during the entirety of World War II, where a lot of these soldiers and a lot of these uh even before that, maybe even in World War I, where you saw a lot of that men forcing themselves on these women, and you've got a lot of people who end up mixed with mixed DNA as a result, right? I think today, so many people I don't know how it is in the states, but so many people today in Canada, when when you find out when they say, Oh, yeah, I'm I'm I'm part Scottish, they're also part English.
SPEAKER_00Very interesting. Yeah, well, you you know, with uh with Hitler also, and this is kind of an interesting wrinkle, is that you know, and all of his manifesto stuff that he was spewing out there, he wanted to create the pure Aryan race, right? And it's it kind of weirdly, people like me blonde hair, blue eyes, white. That's what he wanted. But the irony was that Hitler wasn't that, he he wasn't blonde-haired, blue-eyed, you know, so he didn't even fit the bill of what you know this perfect race or whatever he was trying to create was, you know. This let's say the Nordic race was kind of what he was going for in a weird way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I believe this one. I I would the irony in it wouldn't uh does not does not uh miss me on this.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Number so so he survived. He survived, yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, and had the body double, poor body double, by the way, and had some Jewish ancestry, yes, and he never went to the moon. No, he didn't go to Antarctica, not yet, right? Man, it's it's it's like this is like one big cake of bullshit, and we're just kind of slicing the knife right through it, just ciphering through it.
SPEAKER_01It's like realistic, crazy, yeah. Um number six, deep occult involvement and the spear of destiny. Hitler and the Nazis were supposedly guided by secret societies, uh and mythical artifacts. The most famous items uh item is the spear of destiny, uh said to grant invincibility to its possessor. Related claims include demonic possession or Hitler as an avatar. Historians note Himmler was far more interested in the occult than Hitler himself, who largely dismissed such groups after using them politically early on. Now, I will say this there was there is a lot of rumors and stuff about the Nazis diving into more um more supernatural forces and investigating that side of things during World War II.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I you know what I would say to this one thing that's really fascinating about Nazi Germany is that at the time, technology-wise, they were arguably 20 years beyond the next closest country, whether that was the US or Russia or whoever, right? They were 20 years beyond. How do you how do you advance at that rate? Well, the way you do it is basically you remove all red tape, period. And so, like, like in the US, for example, I mean, there's red tape on everything, anything you want to do, you know, you got to go through so many layers of checks and checks and checks. It's a decade easily, right? Uh, I mean, this is one of the things that, you know, like in the US, from the business community, everybody complains about because they're like, we're just like stifled. Like, I can't get anything approved, I can't get anything through. Um, you know, I need you to get out of the way. But the problem in getting out of the way is you can take it too far, right? You can take things too far. People get hurt. Um, you've got your population exposed to um, you know, different drugs and things like the Nazi soldiers were all on speed, all of them, right? Which it's not only a coincidence that they did the Blitzkrieg, which was basically sort of like the speed run into France, but they were also literally on speed at the same time, right?
SPEAKER_01On a side note, sorry, on a second job, but on a side note, it's not in this list, so I I figured I'd throw it in right about there. Wasn't Hitler an addict as well?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah, he was on all kinds of drugs, yeah. Yeah, so kind of going back to the idea of the occult and like the supernatural, though, right? Think of it like this: like the red tape's been removed, the gloves are off. You can explore anything that will give the third Reich an advantage over our enemies. Anything. And let's let's take it as far as we can go. And at the same time, the cost was cheap because they had free labor, right? So the cost was cheap, the government was in alignment, you had a cause that was the war effort. Tons of guinea pigs as well.
SPEAKER_01What's that? Tons of guinea pigs as well for whatever testing they wanted to do.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, tons of guinea pigs. Um, and you know, we we haven't even really talked about like their chemical weapons program and things like that. They were working on it. Ironically, they never used it. Um, you know, this is this is something that um I ended up reading in uh Annie Jacobson's book about Operation Paperclip, that they had this concept of the sword and the shield. And the idea was that in Nazi Germany, they had all kinds of chemical agents that could have killed a million people easily. The sword. What they didn't have was the shield, the antidote, right? And and what always held them back was they could not release the stuff in fear of they'd kill the entire German population or poison the whole country, right? Yeah, um, but anyway, going back to supernatural and the occult, is it possible that they went down that rabbit hole as far as they could in some form or fashion? They they may have. They may have.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I think they did. I think they were willing to try anything. Anything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I think you're right. They they probably did, you know. Um, now did they get results out of it or something meaningful? Who knows? But did they do it? Probably, yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_01I do think they explored it quite intently. I think they had probably whole divisions or scientists who who were involved in that, but I don't believe that they found some spear of destiny that made anybody in invincible uh or or anybody possessed for that matter.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree with that. So, okay, so on this one, we we both agree that we don't think this happened in in this way, but we do think that some sort of occult trajectory wormhole happened, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. That's how Hellboy came to Earth. Great point, great point. Uh, number seven, escape to Spain or other European hideouts, a variant of the uh survival theory, one book titled Hitler's Escape, claims he reached Spain in April 1945. Other locations that appear in rumors include Colombia uh and a Kentucky hideout, Tibet, Japan, or even uh Swiss swastika-shaped complex, oh swastika-shaped complex of buildings in San Diego. That's that's really weird. Um I can't see Kentucky or San Diego, but uh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So so again, like all the other conspiracies, there is some truth here, but then it goes too far. So first of all, first off, let's let's talk about Spain. Was Spain um you know in in support of the Nazi cause, or let's say indifferent? Yes, Franco was. So they were an ally. So could could the could he have escaped to Spain? Uh was the infrastructure there to support him? And the answer was yes. And on Hunting Hitler, they looked at uh multiple locations that it was uh through the various reports tied him into Spain, and he very easily could have been in Spain. So I think that's true. Now, when you start going out to these other places, not so much. So if you followed Spain as part of the rat line and theory one to South America, I think that's 100% true. Now, did he go to like any of these other places that randomly look like swastikas or whatever? Probably not. Um, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, I think that's a bridge too far. Um, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you, I'm with you. Oh, you lost me.
SPEAKER_00It's it's it's like the Jenga tower. We're like, how many more can we go for? And then the tower just falls over, you know.
SPEAKER_01Um, so yeah, I I do think so. I mean, I think that Spain is far, far more realistic than Antarctica or um Argentina. Uh sorry, yeah, Antarctica. Yeah, sorry. I think it's far more realistic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I want to say that also I think they had U-boat, like a U-boat base that was in Spain, I think. Um, where it kind of had like the the holding areas for the U-boats and like the side of a cliff face. Pretty sure that was there.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01So okay, so that would be where he would have escaped to. Uh I would believe uh Colombia, maybe Tibet, Japan? What do you think about Japan? No, no, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00No, no, they weren't obviously they they were against the Allies, but I don't I don't know how tight. Japan was with Hitler, to be honest. And truthfully, where where it's the most sympathetic is South America. And like on the show Hunting Hitler, I mean, they went to some of those areas that still, even today, have like swastikas. Some of the people that they interviewed on the show, it got like real creepy and weird at certain times. Like they didn't want to talk about it. Yes, they had seen people. Yes, they knew things. They didn't want to share their info. They didn't want to be on camera. They didn't even want to pull out pictures. And occasionally they would, like, Dr. Mangalay, the angel of Auschwitz. They found him down there, right? And he was living under a fake name. Um, so we know that the high-ranking Nazis did make it down there. They were sympathetic. They gave him safe harbor. Um, I I think that it's likely he bounced around South America a little bit, but I don't think he lived beyond, let's say, 20 years past the end of World War II. I don't think so. I think he died.
SPEAKER_01I agree with that. Well, we're back to we we it seems like we're going from like kind of realistic one to completely off-the-wall absurd. So here we go again. Okay, Nazi flying saucers and wonder weapons. Hitler's regime supposedly developed disc-shaped aircraft or a mysterious bell-shaped device that was in uh that was a time machine, anti-gravity weapon, or portal. These technologies are either used for his escape or hidden after the war. The claims mix real German late war experiments with post-war science fiction and UFO folklore. Personally, I think that if there was any kind of technology like that uh that was found, the general public by now would probably know about it unless they're running a Stargate program with MacGyver.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, at the end of World War II, no one really knew what they had. No one knows, and no one's really talked about it either. And it's like half half the files were sort of burned or destroyed or blown up with missiles and you know, whatever. And we're we're always kind of just trying to piece it together what what actually happened, right? Now, we talked earlier about how the gloves were off, there was no red tape, so they really could make the quote wonder weapons. Like one of them was um, I don't know if you heard about it, it's this long-barreled gun that the barrel is like the size of a football field, and it was like this gun could fire around, you know, like like you know, 500 miles or whatever, whatever the distance was, right? Just ridiculous, right? So they did have stuff like that that they were building. Uh, they legitimately did. And you got to remember, too, the German engineers are like the best engineers in arguably in the world, outside of maybe like you know, the Egyptians or whoever built the pyramids, right? So aliens. Hey, I'm not saying it's aliens. But uh, okay. So, anyway, though, to the bell, the story with the bell, and they've covered this on like ancient aliens on history channel, was that the Nazis supposedly invented some sort of anti-gravity ship called the Bell that was supposedly chained to this like column of pillars that was around it. And you know, no one really knows anything beyond that. Now, it sounds fantastical and crazy in itself, in its own claim. Was there a bell? Maybe. Did they have anti anti-gravity? Maybe. Where I think it goes too far as you say, but they put Hitler in it. Nah, nah, come on, man. You just lost me. Like that, that's where that's where the tower falls over on this Django, you know.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, it goes hand in hand with the whole occult, and and you know, like you said, the gloves are off in terms of um scientific research during that time period. So I do think that it's possible. I mean, first off, the anti-gravity, right? Yeah, I mean, they even speculate about that today. It is a it is a realistic thesis that something like that could be used, invented, or you know, it's not it's not, I don't know, like a time machine, for example, right? So you're just like, okay, there's a line in terms of you know what you could see being invented and being realistic, and I think a time machine is probably past that line. Now, does that mean that they probably didn't create one? And but does that mean that it worked? That's another story, right? Yeah, so I think I think that's where a lot of rumors and stories about we're working on a time machine, for example, we're building one, it kind of gets conflated with there's a difference between building one and it working.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I I I think you're spot on that this one is a bridge too far. And could they have been looking into it or attempting to build something absolutely easily? Now, did it actually work or work as intended? Probably not. The odds I think are heavily against it, and even you know, like today, um, like in the UFO space, for example, um, like somebody who's popular in the UFO world, a name is Bob Lazar, right? And Bob Lazar's claim is that he supposedly worked on these UFOs at uh Groom Lake, aka Area 51 in the US in the 80s. And what Bob says is that the UFOs work with a uh anti-gravity emitters. And so, like, what's interesting in uh in some of the UFO videos have come out recently, you see the UFOs and they're not they kind of like weirdly turn in the air. So they're not aerodynamic in the slightest. So it's like, how the hell is this thing flying and how's it flying as fast as it is? Well, supposedly the reason is these quote anti-gravity emitters, and what that means is that it's bending gravity and it's being pulled somewhere as opposed to being pushed, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, now what I'm getting at in all of this is that in Bob's claim, it was that the anti-gravity emitters ran on element 115. That's that's his claim that that is out there. Element 115. And supposedly we didn't even have element 115 until years and years after he supposedly worked at Area 51 at this groom lake location, right? And so even in interviews today, Bob has said the amount of element 115 that they have in this supposed craft is from somewhere else. It's not from this planet, it's not from this world, it's from somewhere else. We can't replicate it. So, my point in saying that is that to say that the Nazis were somehow able to create anti-gravity technology, I think that's a bridge way too far. There's just no way. And then when you take it one step further and you start talking about like time travel, like, you know, could time travel be real? Like some of the experiments they're doing at uh that CERN in uh Switzerland, where it's like the the Hydron Collider, right? And they're doing all this particle experiments and all this stuff. You know, are they proving that time travel could be real in some aspects? It's like I think they kind of are, but at the same time, do we have the tech to like just do that with a person? No, we're not even close, you know.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, there's a simple thesis to prove that the Germans did not have time travel at that time. Would we not be speaking German right now if they did?
SPEAKER_00Great point, right? Like if they had time travel and they knew they were gonna lose, wouldn't they go back and make sure they were gonna win?
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00I mean, um, hey, did you ever see uh the show The Man in the High Castle? Have you ever seen this? No, so this is on Amazon. Season one was really good, and the premise of the man in the high castle was that the Germans and the Japanese won World War II, and here's what it looks like today. And yeah, it it was it's it's kind of a crazy show. It's out there, and so like America is taken over by Nazi Germany. Um, and it kind of goes down this weird rabbit hole of all that. But going back to this topic, you're absolutely right. I mean, if if they had the technology, if they had the time travel, wouldn't they have used it? I I feel like this one just falls apart, you know.
SPEAKER_01Could you imagine the reason it would be it would have been absolutely impossible, anyways, for them to occupy the United States. I mean, they were already becoming stretched very, very thin as it was. Could you imagine trying to occupy you know the states on an a whole other continent? It just yeah, again, that falls apart too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it's a crazy show, but in that show, the Nazis have the eastern half from the Mississippi River. I think it was the Mississippi River, was a divider, and the Japanese had the western half of the U.S.
SPEAKER_01There you go.
SPEAKER_00Kind of wild.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. I'm gonna have to watch that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Number nine, a fourth Reich was or is being prepared from South America. Surviving Nazis sometimes include a living Hitler or his descendants, supposedly uh used looted gold and technology to build a successor state or movement in Argentina or elsewhere. Some versions claim Hitler feathered children there. Father feathered, fathered children there.
unknownSorry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, is there a secret uh Nazi society getting ready to for the Fourth Reich coming from Argentina? What do you think?
SPEAKER_00So going back to the show Hunting Hitler, they looked into this idea, and where they landed was yes, they were trying to build some type of dirty bomb or atomic bomb.
SPEAKER_01Trojan horse, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like they legitimately were trying to rebuild their operation in South America, and they even had like um like slave labor camps in Chile that no one's ever heard of. You know, again, these are like black sites, right? Like no one even knows this stuff exists. And um they there was multiple records, like Mangalay was in some of it, um, but different Nazis, and and it kind of all went around using factories and trying to turn them into like a bomb-making factory, right? Um, I think what happened though, truthfully, is I think the clocks simply ran out. They got too old, they died, the bulk of their infrastructure just could not be rebuilt. Like if you if you think about Nazi Germany like the Death Star, right? Like in Star Wars, the Death Star is still operational, even when it's like half a planet. Uh, but Nazi Germany was kind of like one-tenth of what it was, maybe even less than that, one-twentieth of what it was. So I don't I they never really quite got there, even though I think they intended to get there. And arguably, if Hitler was still alive, would he be maniacal enough to try and pursue this? Maybe, or maybe he just went full-blown crazy in South America.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that it definitely the intention was there, the attempt was there, but uh like you just said, right? You probably just get aged out and generations go by, and you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and here's another thing. This is very circumstantial, so it may not be true, but it might. Is there's a photo that's floating around of supposedly of Hitler and his black girlfriend in South America.
SPEAKER_01Yes, Hitler with his Jewish DNA, yes, with a black girlfriend.
SPEAKER_00I would believe it. Uh I would I would totally believe this, and it and it the this came out before like all of the AI deepfakes and all this stuff, and it alleges that it it's him, and it kind of looks like him.
SPEAKER_01That's hilarious, yeah. And but you know what? Not surprising. No, usually people, the people who are the most passionate and intense about something like he was are usually hypocrites. Yeah, yeah. So uh number 10, the final one. Hitler was murdered rather than dying by suicide. Instead of taking cyanide and shooting himself, why would you take cyanide and shoot yourself? Anyway, uh Hitler was poisoned on Himmler's orders or killed by other inner circle figures with the suicide story invented as a cover. Early Soviet reports sometimes emphasize cyanide only and downplayed the gunshot. These ideas mix a few genuine historical uncertainties uh with invention. Um Soviet leader Joseph Stalin's early public suggestions that Hitler might have escaped, uh escaped, helped the survivor. This is weird, we worded weirdly, Hitler might have escaped, helped the survival stories spread. Oh, okay. Uh forensic work on the denial, uh sorry, the geez, I'm out of it today. The dental remains and more recent DNA testing have repeatedly pointed back to death in the bunker in 1945. Uh personally, I'm leaning away from that just because I think he survived the bunker to begin with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So we talked about the dental remains, the jawbone that was identified by Hitler's dentist. So that's not verifiable in any way, shape, or form. Throw that out. Um, then you talk about cyanide. You if you took a cyanide capsule, you don't need a gunshot. No, you just need the cyanide, right? Um, and at the time, a lot of the Nazis, the high-ranking Nazis did have cyanide capsules, including uh Goring, who was the head of the Luftwaffe, their uh Air Force, right? He was the highest, highest ranking captured Nazi. He was arguably number two in the entire Nazi Germany. And they held him at Nuremberg for you know like a year or whatever. And before they could hang him, he uh committed suicide with a cyanide capsule that supposedly he had he sorry he held in his uh anus. Okay, don't know if you know that story. This is kind of like uh if you've seen pulp fiction, there's a scene in pulp fiction where um Christopher Walken gives gives the guy the watch and he tells him this great story about how his dad wanted him to have this watch and that truthfully he saved it for him by keeping the watch up his ass while he was in the war or whatever. This is kind of the same thing, but it's true is that uh Goring kept a uh cyanide capsule up his ass. True.
SPEAKER_01Okay, not the safest place to store it.
SPEAKER_00No, no, but um also was cyanide. Himmler, another coward, uh, the one who arguably created the bulk of the Holocaust was Himmler. Himmler was the one who was in charge of when anyone else in the Nazi machine needed labor, hip Himmler organized it. So he ran all of the camps, right? And at the end, he actually tried to negotiate a deal, it fell through, and then when they captured him, he uh he had had the cyanide capsule and he died instantly, right? So yeah, it totally. And so, you know, anyway, you go back to Hitler, and if he had had the cyanide capsule and and killed himself, then there would have been a body. Where's the body? You know, it's no body.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that one, that one I'm not it it it it it contradicts uh Hitler escaping the the bunker, and I just I'm too I'm too sure that he did escape the bunker. So so summing it up, what do you think? Pull this story together now that we have gone through all ten conspiracy theories. What can we throw away? What bullshit can we toss aside and string this story together? What happened? Paradigm shift needs to solve another mystery.
SPEAKER_00I I think when you peel back the layers of this onion, which clearly this is an onion, right? I mean, this thing stinks. Um, when you peel back the layers, the story that was told to the public is a complete fabrication. And we can see that clearly in the evidence of all of the intelligence reports from all these intelligence organizations all over the world at the time, that they were all looking for him. So they know he got away, right? Um, you fast-forwarded it, the DNA testing of the skull fragment, not him, the jawbone identified by his dentist, throw that out. Uh, the eyewitness account by his bodyguard, throw that out. Uh, the burned remains, like you said, the body double, not even close. Could he have escaped the bunker? Absolutely. There were tunnels. He could have flown out of Tempelhof, he could have flown out of the main uh thoroughfare there by the Brandenburg Gate. All he had to do was get to Spain. You know, again, the rat line, the Vatican Church was giving all of them IDs. Um, they had the U-boat infrastructure to get them across the ocean easily, all the way down to South America. And ultimately, where does that leave them? I mean, you know, again, most of their infrastructure was was gone, it was pulverized. And they did they try and build something again? Yes, but did they have it in them to pull it off? No. Did they have the resources? No. Did they have enough people? No. Uh, you know, again, you know, like something I think about, you know, I mean, you and I are right about the same age, mid-40s. Can you imagine going like 20 years with something, and then, you know, at the end of it, it all fell apart and blew up, and then you have to start over? I wouldn't have the energy for that, and I don't think they did either, you know.
SPEAKER_01Exhausting. And I think that what better place to hide but South America, and what better strategy but to have a black girlfriend? Because even people who say that looks like Hitler, really. I'm standing here with my black girlfriend, bro. Really? You think I'm Hitler?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you know what's fascinating? Um, you know, I had mentioned that that area of uh South America that looks like Bavaria, like it looks like the mountains of Germany, and you know, Hitler's main uh place was the Eagle's Nest. And that was up there, you know, in in the mountains, and it's kind of like these beautiful, like snow capped mountains, amazing views, you know, sea for miles. They have all that down there.
SPEAKER_01Uh that's all there. Nice and nostalgic for him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So what does he need to recreate here? You know, I mean, it's it's kind of like I think he probably went he crossed the line into like batshit crazy. And then on top of that, he had natural ailments like the stomach ulcer and other things probably that happened. And I think the clock simply ran out. I think he died. I think they probably burned, destroyed, dumped his bones in the ocean, something along these lines, because what a liability it would be for one of those countries for it to come out later that actually here's Hitler's skeleton and his DNA. What a bad look, right? So I don't know if I buy that he's buried there, but I could totally see him dying and then them getting rid of it. And you know, earlier when I Brought up uh Mort Martin Borman. Um, he was one that they didn't know where he was. And I I want to say he turned up later in like Europe, or his body was in Europe, or he supposedly died in Europe, something along these lines. And there was like a really weird connection to clay, that there was like some sort of clay that was involved either in his casket or somehow connected to it, that this clay came from South America, and so it it kind of looked like he died in South America, but they moved the body to Europe to make it look like he never went to Europe when he did, or never went to South America when he did. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, South America.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I think we solved another one, buddy.
SPEAKER_00I think so too. I think so too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but there are so many more rabbit holes involving Hitler and World War II that I can't wait to dive down. One specifically is the occult and demonic research that they were doing during World War II. I would love to dive down that rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And let me say too that the occult at that point in time, kind of the 20s, 30s, 40s, that that was like the peak of the occult, right? People trying to like summon demons and open portals and really weird stuff like that, right? And you know, you you could just sort of like brush all that off, like, oh yeah, you know, that's not true or whatever. But I'll tell you, man, for a little while I watched a show called uh Portals to Hell. If you haven't seen it, it was with uh Ozzy's son, Jack Osborne, and another girl, and they would go out and they they would do like paranormal investigations. And I distinctly remember one of them. Uh, and on this particular investigation, they brought out a psychic and they would do this regularly, right? They'd bring out these like well-renowned psychics, and they would blindfold them and they would just say, like, take us to anything you see or whatever you're feeling, right? And the psychic would be like a bloodhound. They'd go straight to whatever crazy event happened at this property, whatever it was. And on one of the properties, they were outside, and I distinctly remember the psychic saying, Um, there's an elemental here. And it was like, What an elemental? Like, what is that? And she said something along the lines of it's like an earth spirit that's always been here and it's never been human, and it's negative.
SPEAKER_01That's another one we should dive into sometime because that fascinates me as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, you hear that and you go, Wait, what?
SPEAKER_01Goodbye.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So, so you know, going down the rabbit hole of the occult, could there be something to it? Who knows, man?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Oh, there's lots I'd like to dive into ghost hunter stuff, but we'll save, yeah, we'll save that stuff for another time. Paranormal activity, baby. Yeah, absolutely. But for now, I guess this wraps up yet another episode. What are your final thoughts?
SPEAKER_00Final thoughts, man. Uh, World War II is fascinating, fascinating on so many levels, so many different areas, and um, this is just one of them that I think what what is the public story and what's the truth are completely different. But ironically, after all these years, just like with the episodes that you and I did on the assassinations of JFK, of RFK, I mean, just follow the evidence. Right, follow the evidence. What is the evidence telling you? And that's that's what we're doing here, and I think it's telling us that he got away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that another consistent um consistency that we we are finding as we continue to dive down all of these different different conspiracies is that the FBI and CIA continue to mislead and give out misinformation. It seems to be a constant in most of these deep dives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and and arguably this is one of the things that a lot of people in the UFO community complain about is all of the misinformation, the disinformation, this stuff that comes out that is clearly put out to distract when there may be actually something in there that's real, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, if you put out the truth and then you put out a hundred like ninety-nine lies with the truth, you know, you know that no one's gonna find the truth. It's a needle in a haystack, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you know, a great example is Roswell, which we should probably do an episode on. Yeah, we should absolutely.
SPEAKER_01But for now, this wraps up another episode, guys. God bless. Shift out.