Comfort by Design

Have you ever walked into a space and felt transformed? 

In the Margaret River Region, it could be a grand restaurant with plenty of polish, or a small rustic cellar door that makes you feel a certain way as soon as you walk in.

In this episode, Kellie Tannock focuses on the senses, exploring how the spaces around us shape how we feel, or how we learn, often without us even noticing.  

From the subtle details of lighting, sound and layout in everyday businesses, to immersive experiences — it all points to one idea: thoughtful design can shape how we connect, relax and remember a place. 

 Image: Whicher Ridge Winery sensory garden

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For more inspiration on visiting the Margaret River Region follow @margaretriver on Instagram or explore www.margaretriver.com.

This show was recorded at RMR 101.9FM, Margaret River Region.

Transcript

Kellie Tannock 0:01

Welcome to Cape's Conversations, sharing the stories that make the Margaret River region a truly special place to live and visit. Hello, I'm Kelly Tannock. Thanks for joining me on Cape's Conversations. Have you ever walked into a space and felt transformed? Well, in the Margaret River region, it could be a grand restaurant with plenty of polish or even a small rustic cellar door that makes you feel a certain way as soon as you walk in. This week we are focusing on the senses, especially in some of the places we might visit or experience throughout the region, like wineries, shops, cafes, garden spaces, and more. We'll be exploring how the spaces around us shape how we feel often without us even noticing. And from the subtle details of lighting, sound and layout and everyday businesses to immersive experiences, it all points out to one idea. Thoughtful design can shape how we connect, relax, and remember a place. If you've ever walked into a space and just felt good, this episode is about why. My first guest is an interior architect who focuses on how environments influence our nervous systems, our behaviours, and our overall experience, often through subtle and sometimes overlooked details. Welcome, Melissa Cristallo from Studio Mello. Hi, Kelly. Thanks for having me. Ah, it's a pleasure. Thanks for joining us. So, first of all, what is an interior architect?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Slightly different from an interior decorator. We just do things a little bit more technical. So it's like a step down from architecture, really.

Kellie Tannock 1:27

Okay, so can you start by explaining what you mean by sensory design in a business setting and maybe give us some examples?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So I think we often assume that design is purely visual, but sensory design goes so much deeper than that. It's about understanding that we experience spaces through our entire body, not just our eyes. In a business setting, I think sensory design means intentionally considering how people experience the space through light, sound, texture, materials, layout, movement, and atmosphere. All of these elements influence how you feel from the moment that you arrive in a space. So I don't think most people consciously like notice these details, but they can definitely feel the effect. Cafes, restaurants, and wineries are often like remembered not only for what they look like, but how you know they make you feel.

Kellie Tannock 2:15

Sure. Can you give some examples of you know how um you know a particular space might make you feel and why?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

When it's too loud or too crowded, you know, you might feel anxious, a little panicked, or I feel overwhelmed as well. If it's too loud, you just can't focus properly and you're just not really present. So, you know, acoustics are very important as well. And or if the entrance isn't exactly as open and welcoming as it should be, or there's just too much visual um clutter happening, your eyes don't really know where to go and where to rest. Those are a couple couple examples.

Kellie Tannock 2:54

Sure, and presumably the opposite is true as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Places that have a lot of natural light can make you feel calmer, or you know, it it can be also warm spaces, so there's like cold, white, harsh spaces that just make you feel a little on edge, as well as balancing the natural elements. So you know, you've got a lot of wood, not too much um metal elements, just yeah, trying to balance the the five elements of nature really. So, and is it the the brain or the nervous system what's actually responding to our nervous system is constantly responding to to the environment, often yeah, before we realize it. I think it's like within seconds of entering the space, our body starts gathering that information. Does it feel like you know safe or calm, comfortable, easy to navigate? Because humans um evolve responding to environmental cues. So our surroundings still influences deeply today. You know, harsh lighting, noise, clutter, confusing layouts can subtly create, you know, stress or tension. And on the other hand, environments with a natural flow or softer sensitive experience and moments of visual rest often help feel um help people feel more grounded. We we notice before we uh consciously analyze the space.

Kellie Tannock 4:10

So, as an interior architect in your work, what are some of the small overlooked details that can make the biggest difference?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Often find it's not the dramatic design that changes an experience, but the accumulation of smaller details. So I think for me, lighting is one of the biggest. Light affects your mood, energy, behavior, warm layered lighting creates a very different experience than bright and cold overhead lighting. And then acoustics are very underestimated. Um for me that's a that's a huge one. You know, echoing environments or a lot of noise can create overstimulation, spatial flow, you know, how you move through a space, how you know, if the the movement feels easy and intuitive, people relax more easily. And lastly, I think, yeah, entrances for sure. Entrances matter a lot the first moments entering, you know, a business can often shape all of the experience that follows after that.

Kellie Tannock 5:07

When we think about designing for a guest and not the business itself, what does that look like in practice?

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Businesses sometimes unintentionally designed around personal taste and you know, trends, um looking at all the social media rather than the actual human experiences. Designing for the guest starts with empathy. Asking who is this person, why are they here, what emotional experience are they looking for? Um, particularly somewhere like Margaret River region, people often come looking for slowness and connection, a sense of ease. But if the environment doesn't support that experience, there can be a sort of disconnect.

Kellie Tannock 5:47

And can the opposite be true in another perhaps metropolitan space?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Definitely. I mean, um, if you go into a city, you want it to be a bit more bright and colorful, and um there's a lot more happening, just a lot more overstimulating in that sense, um, because that's what people come for.

Kellie Tannock 6:04

They just want a lot more action and adventure and can you explain the distinction between say wellness and well-being, and and how can a business create a sense of well-being without offering a traditional wellness product?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, I think when people hear wellness, they probably think of spasm treatment, health services, although like well-being is so much broader, it's about how supported people feel in their daily experience. I think it's whether we design a home or a business. The goal is often similar. We want environments that help us feel comfortable, safe, connected, and at ease. Businesses can support well-being through, you know, thoughtful details, like I said, natural light and comfortable seating, the connection to nature, um, softer materials. Yeah, just creating that environment that feels calming rather than overwhelming. So your guests want to stay longer. So I don't think you need to offer wellness to create well-being.

Kellie Tannock 6:58

For a small local business, you know, it might be a bit overwhelming to suddenly hire an interior architect. Can you share some of the um a few simple changes that they might be able to make straight away?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah, I really like this one because I always suggest starting by experience your own business or your own home, whichever, as a first-time guest rather than as an owner, maybe walk in slowly and notice what your body responds to. Like where do your eyes go first? Is there visual clutter? How does the lighting feel? Is there noise? Does movement through the space feel easy? And then you can start with small shifts, you know, soften lighting where possible, reduce the unnecessary visual clutter, improve the arrival experience. Yeah, natural materials are very important, you know, greenery. Um yeah, definitely consider sound as part of the design. And then obviously the opposite. If it's if it's too cold and there's no decor, that's missing, that's lacking the warmth as well. Or, you know, if it's too basic, you just need some some personal touches for sure. So yeah, you don't need a complete redesign, it's just small sensory changes that change how a space is experienced. And you know, that's the that's the work that I do through Studio Mellow, helping people understand that spaces aren't visual, they influence how we live, feel, and move through everyday life. So I think whether it's a home or holiday property or business, I'm always interested in creating environments that feel supportive and intentional.

Kellie Tannock 8:28

They're really generous tips, Melissa. Thank you so much. This is Cape's Conversations. I'm Kelly Tannik, and thanks to Melissa Cristalo from Studio Mellow on talking through holistic design to emphasize our well-being and whether it's an interior space in your home or your business. Next up, I'm speaking with Kathy Howard from Witcher Ridge Estate. Witcher Ridge is a case study in creating a deliberately sensory visitor experience. But first, this is singer-songwriter Banjo Lucia with Cartwheel.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

And I can't do that.

Kellie Tannock 12:40

That was Cartwheel by Banjo Lachea, a local musician who is now based in Fremantle. Welcome back to Cape's Conversations, where we're exploring how sensory design principles impact the visitor experience. Witcher Ridge winery in the Margaret River region has created a sensory garden at its cellar door. It's designed to deliver a wine tasting experience in a way that engages the senses and encourages a slower, more immersive visit. Kathy, tell us about your sensory garden. What does it look like and how does it work in the context of your cellar door?

SPEAKER_05 13:18

Okay, so the garden design is a figureite or an infinity symbol. We designed it in that shape so that it encourages people to wander. But when a garden's curved, you can't see what's around the next corner without uh walking and wandering around. So that was all part of creating a very relaxed experience. The garden itself is uh has got hedges on three sides. Uh so it is uh creating a garden room, but it's also keeping all the aromas and uh scents in the garden. With the figure eight design, there's uh descriptor beds around the outside of the of the bed. There are round or um affinity beds in the middle, and they're both themed for different wine varietals that we make wine out of. So descriptors are planted with fruit trees, vegetables, herbs, flowers that all describe uh flavours and aromas that you might be smelling and tasting in each um wine varietal. The central bed that matches that is all about food and wine pairing.

Kellie Tannock 14:24

Amazing. Yeah, sorry, give us an example of what one of those uh sensory beds might look like, what might contain it.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Okay, so Signon Blanc is one that uh springs to mind. So in the descriptor beds we've got uh got Nashville pear, passion fruit, various herbs that are um lemon scented, also lemon verbena, lemon balm, but there's also white peach, we'll talk about fruit or flowers, uh yellow in colour, but also there's um honeysuckle and other things like that that are very aromatic.

Kellie Tannock 14:55

So Kathy, can you tell us a bit more about how the affinity bed works with the pairing experience?

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Yeah, so for Saving Belong, there's a crossover between uh the flavours that are in the grape variety itself and the descriptive bed, which also do pair well with food. So I've got on the in the affinity bed lemon uh tasting plants, lemon trees there, there's lemon basil, lemon thyme on that side. But I do a little conversation about how Sauvignon Blanc and Cabernet Sauvignon are related genetically. So I have rosemary and I have dil, which is in the Sauvignon Blanc affinity bed, also in the Cabernet Affinity bed. And then there's something completely different for a Sauvignon Blanc that just happens to go as coriander. Oh wow, that's a lot of things. So I can then think about coriander, yes, which can be, because I always ask first whether people like coriander or not before we go down that path. And there's also um I've got a a caper, a berry board or two. So that's connecting with a deal, and then we can talk about how we can go down a pickled Dijon Mastered or um capers or that sort of thing.

Kellie Tannock 16:03

What role does uh does this play in the context of your cellador? How do you make the connection?

SPEAKER_05 16:08

The way um I've designed the tour and also the garden means that everybody's using uh all their senses, the sight, the sound, the smell, the taste, um hearing uh did I say hearing here? Uh which means that it's a much more relaxed way to learn about wine flavours and wine or more generally how wine's made and where the flavours come from.

Kellie Tannock 16:34

Where did you get this idea? Was it something that you picked up from elsewhere, or is it something that you thought would be useful?

SPEAKER_05 16:41

Uh it's a bit of a long story. So it came out of the Rural Women's Award. I was teamed up with a mentor as an offshooter there. We were looking at opening a cellar door. We wanted to do something completely different because we're a little bit off the track. But we're both passionate about making our wines in styles that go well with food. So we were looking at something that wasn't too far out of our experience or skill set and gardening was one that that came up. So it came up through the mentor, just sort of prodding and and pushing us um to have a think outside the box. And when you Google wine sensory gardens, which is what I well, I started off Googling Gardens, um, there were there's a number of them in the Napa in the Napa Valley, California. Uh that was back in 2011. So there was three or four that are still around, but they were concentrating on using uh various fruiting plants to use as examples for people to um find ways of describing what they might be smelling and tasting. And that's tapping into uh the way your brain remembers. One of the most important um senses I found is your sense of smell.

Kellie Tannock 17:52

So memory and all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_05 17:54

So as soon as you smell something, it well, in our case it's I use it, but uh, you smell wine, uh food, anything, it'll trigger a little memory. And your brain will be hunting for what does this remind me of? And that's where the garden comes in without people knowing they're learning, or they're um discovering the flavours that are in the wine that they might never seen there before. It is such a creative idea.

Kellie Tannock 18:19

How do uh your guests respond to this experience?

SPEAKER_05 18:23

We end up talking a lot about how your your brain works, how it locks away little memories for you. It's also a conversation I can have with people as to whatever you smell is the correct thing. So it's just uh breaking down those barriers to understanding wine, um, demystifying it in a way. And I find that at the end of the tour they've just been blown away by how much information they've ended up getting. But it's been uh, you know, over an hour and a half, it's been a very relaxed and easier for a better way, uh way of uh doing a wine tasting experience.

Kellie Tannock 18:59

What's some of the feedback that you've had from those guests who've had an experience that presumably most of them have never had before?

SPEAKER_05 19:06

Um a commonly asked question, which is a really interesting way. I will get asked when do you put the peaches and the lemons in the Sauvignon Blanc? Going back to the Sauvignon Blanc for example. So I can have all that conversation and we can talk about it's coming from the grape variety and it's also how the wine's made, and then I can talk about soil and climate and vintage. So you can cover all of those things but in a very non-threatening environment.

Kellie Tannock 19:35

Well, it's absolutely fascinating, Kathy. Thanks so much, and congratulations on creating this sensory garden. It sounds like it's just going to get bigger and better. Um, and thanks for joining me on Cape's Conversations. That was Kathy Howard of Witcher Ridge Estate. After this music break, I'll speak to Tamara Ostam on how she enhances sound for a sensory experience to support well-being. But first, I've been asked about our Capes Conversations show theme, which samples Daisy Fields by local artist Kira Jazz. So here's Kira's song in full. RMR one oh one point nine. That was Kira Jazz with Daisy Fields. Tamara Ostam joins me now. Tamara has uniquely balanced a wellness studio in Burnside. Welcome, Tamara.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Thank you for having me.

Kellie Tannock 22:52

Now, sound therapy might be new to some listeners. Can you explain what it is and how it works?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Well, sound therapy can work on many different layers. Predominantly what I do is work with therapeutic sound massage, and I work with the Peter Hess method, and that is where therapeutic sound bowls are placed on your clothed body. And the results are similar to having a traditional massage physically. You're getting your soft tissue, your tissue, your fascia, releasing, but you're also getting that mental load and you're getting the relaxation of your mind as well. So you've got the added benefit there. But you can also have the sound therapy as sound meditation, which can be done in group space.

Kellie Tannock 23:28

How does that work? Because massages clearly a very different thing to the resonant sound that I'm assuming you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah, completely. So the reason it works is the sound travels on the fluid within your body, and what it does is allows your soft tissue to then relax and without the physical manipulation of those fine vibrations. So if you're thinking of a pebble being dropped into a pond to those concentric waves that ripple out, that's what's happening within your body.

Kellie Tannock 23:54

So what happens to the nervous system when this is going on?

SPEAKER_01 23:57

So you fully surrender, you're fully relaxed. You'll come in originally the first time, tracking what's going on. We talk you through that, what's actually going to be happening, but it's natural for us to be tracking what's happening, where are the bowls going. And we're actually looking for sound, that's what it is. And we're looking for a rhythm. And we're used to music, but with the sound therapy, there isn't any music. And your body eventually, your mind eventually just goes, Oh, I'm going to now relax, because you've got the non-harmonic overtones of the bowls instead of a true music rhythm. So, what does it actually sound like? Well, the bowls I use are metal bowls. So we're working with three different bowls, two on body at the same time. Um, and so one will be slightly higher, one will be slightly lower. So you're getting that vibration physically within your body, but within your body, but you're also getting kind of the sound of a very calming, relaxing metal note bowl.

Kellie Tannock 24:50

So, what does it feel like both on a physical and an emotional level?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Really relaxing. Your body just goes into full surrender with our massage. What sort of emotions does it manifest? It works on all areas of your body. So once your your monkey mind calms and you go into full surrender, then you'll find a lot of people go into a bit of a bliss state. It's kind of between sleep and awake, and that's where the magic really happens.

Kellie Tannock 25:16

How do you do you get clients falling asleep? Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

And that's all welcome.

Kellie Tannock 25:21

It's a very intentional use of sound, but sounds obviously exist in all spaces. How should uh businesses and venues and and other spaces be thinking about sound in their own environment?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Oh, they should definitely be thinking about it, and you know, on all levels, whether you're accommodation or you're a restaurant or a cafe, the sounds can be too much, they can be overwhelming, it can be noise, and that can cause like a lot of people I don't like the word trauma, but that's actually what's happening. It's overwhelming, it's too much. People can't concentrate and they don't feel welcome. They want to be leaving your space as soon as possible. So accommodation places could always look at like double glazing windows, thick curtains, um, what shrubbery is outside, you know, what have you got as a barrier? What have you got to dull down the sounds? And then what's happening within their space? So, you know, can they add that softening to really block out what is happening in the outside world so people just feel welcome to stay? In restaurants it's the same, you know, how loud is your music? Do you can you turn that down? But yeah, there's many ways that the chitter chatter is a really good design, you know. Can people hear each other speak and think?

Kellie Tannock 26:27

And how did you come to be practicing in this way?

SPEAKER_01 26:31

I got into sound about 13 years ago. I was on a yoga retreat in Thailand, and the morning class was a meditation yoga class, and one of the ladies, the meditation teachers, would bring along this antique sound bowl, and I just fell in love. I knew that that was the space I needed to be in. Um we got speaking, she put me in contact with one of her friends who was selling antique bowls at the time, so I picked up my first antique bowls, and it was only a few years after that that um I got involved with the Peter Hess Association of Australia and started my training to do sound therapy um to become a practitioner in sound massage.

Kellie Tannock 27:09

So, do you find that when you over you walk into a space you're you're very sort of sensitive to sound and and its impact on you?

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I'm so aware, really aware. But also, I love science, and I've been hearing more and more of it in the science field as well lately, where people are actually really focusing on how much damage can be done by loud sounds, too much noise. So, yeah, I definitely am very sensory aware, and the more you work with sound, the more you become. So, yeah, I love a calm life.

Kellie Tannock 27:38

So, from your perspective, how many of us uh are getting it right in our spaces?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Well, life's very overwhelming at the moment, and we're always really switched on. You know, there's so much uh noise pollution, visual pollution, and we're all heightened. So I don't think many people spend enough time really calming and you know bringing themselves back to balance.

Kellie Tannock 27:57

Alright, Tamara Ustam, thank you so much for sharing your use of sound with me on this sensory exploration episode. And thanks to my previous guests, Melissa Cristello and Kathy Howard. It's interesting to hear how these different approaches from intentional sound therapy through to sensory gardens and everyday businesses, it really shows how our surroundings shape how we feel. I hope you've been inspired to look at your office space, your hotel rooms, your business foyer, and think about the small changes that make a bigger difference for your guests or clients. This is Kate's Conversation, sponsored by Margaret River Boston Tourism Association. And I'm finishing this week's episode with Toby Beard, a perfect bass musician who's a regular touring artist to the Southwest. This is Fall Into Me.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

What's being caught up in your mind? You can dream all.