Episode 8 | Depression: Biblical Hope for the Weary Soul

In this powerful episode of Cultural Connections, we tackle one of the most misunderstood and painful topics of our day: depression. With the World Health Organization reporting that 1 billion people worldwide are struggling with mental health challenges and 36.2% of young adults (18–25) reporting some form of mental illness we move beyond pop psychology and cultural slogans to examine what Scripture actually says about deep soul distress.

Join us as we explore:

• Why depression is not simply “just sadness” or a lack of gratitude
• The biblical definition of depression as a weighed-down soul marked by sorrow, weariness, loss of hope, and felt distance
• Whether depression itself is sin (and what the Bible actually teaches)
• Jesus’ own experience in Gethsemane “My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death” and why He understands exactly what you’re feeling
• The debunked “chemical imbalance” / serotonin theory and what science is now saying
• Why running to Christ (not isolation) is the path to real deliverance
• How to steward seasons of suffering and find meaning in the midst of brokenness

This conversation is filled with scriptural hope, pastoral wisdom, and practical encouragement for anyone walking through depression or walking alongside someone who is. You are not broken. You are human. And in Christ there is genuine hope and healing.

Timestamps:
00:22 – Welcome & Startling Global Statistics
02:23 – Depression: Physical, Emotional & Spiritual (It’s All Connected)
05:48 – What “Depression” Actually Means (Clinical vs. Emotional)
09:09 – Is Depression a Sin? The Key Distinction
10:45 – Jesus in Gethsemane: Pressed, Not Just Sad
14:59 – Biblical Examples (David, Elijah & the Garden)
18:01 – The Chemical Imbalance Theory: What Science Now Admits
22:33 – Medication, Faith & Avoiding Extremes
27:22 – Depression as a Human Response to Suffering
29:19 – The Danger of Isolation vs. the Power of Community
36:41 – Stewarding Trials & Finding Meaning in Suffering
39:11 – Final Encouragement & Closing

If this episode brings you hope, please like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs to hear that Jesus meets us in our lowest places.

Drop a comment below: What has helped you (or someone you love) walk through a season of depression?

#Depression #ChristianFaith #BiblicalTruth #MentalHealth #JesusChrist #Gethsemane #ChemicalImbalance #SoulDistress #HopeInChrist #CulturalConnections

“When my heart is overwhelmed within me, lead me to the rock that is higher than I.” – Psalm 61:2

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to this episode of Cultural Connections, and we are grateful that you've joined with us today as that we pick up a huge uh conversation in our world today, and that is the subject of depression. I was looking up uh statistics on the internet before we came to record. The World Health Organization uh states that one billion people in the world today are suffering from what they call a mental addiction, and we're seeing a high rise of uh depression, really most commonly among young people. Um of those 18 to 25, 36.2 percent are reporting on some type of mental illness. But we want to quantify that a little bit to say there are there's a continuum of maybe difficulty that people are experiencing today. But depression, I think, is a very specific word, and so I think we want to maybe hone in a little bit deeper on what we mean by that. What does the scripture talk about when we think about depression and how how we can move forward uh in a healthy way? Paul says in Philippians chapter 4 that in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, we can make our request known unto God. And here's what I like, he said the peace of God that passes all understanding keeps our hearts and our minds. And the heart, we think of the immaterial part of us and the mind as well. There's a spiritual part that he's talking about that that can have a physical expression, or the physical can have some type of interaction with the physical as well. So, what do we mean by depression and how can we move forward in that way? So I'll maybe throw it to you a little bit. What do we mean when we use the word depression?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Well, I I think maybe what I want to establish first or at least lay a foundation for is that I think sometimes we we separate our ourselves in in so many distinct parts that I think maybe can cause confusion. Maybe the question is, is depression is that a is that a physical issue, a spiritual issue, is it an emotional issue? My answer is yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yes, all all of the above. Um we are created. I mean, the Bible does make distinctions regarding our our material, that what we see on the outside, and then the immaterial, maybe what we what what cannot be seen on the inside. But to um take the approach that they can be separated out, I think that's where we make our first mistake.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Is that we try to separate it out. And it it cannot be separated. If there is something spiritually wrong with me, there will be something physically wrong with me as well. If there's something physically wrong with me, could there be something that weighs on my spiritual well-being, of course. Um to to act like they're so distinct, I think is is is where we really kind of fall off the wagon, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, so to kind of take that into the theological world, uh the Bible says that God created man in his own image, and part of what that means is uh God is a triunity. Um we use the word Trinity, of course, the word trinity is not in the Bible, but the the balance of God's uh God the God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Uh and we are a combination of parts as well. And I think we talked on our first episode about maybe are we three parts or two parts? We are we're an inner life and an outer life. Uh though the outward man perishes. And I know you're you're a very young person. I'm I'm the old guy, but that the outward man perishes, but the inward man is renewed day by day. And and Paul even says to the Thessalonians that the the very God of peace sanctify your spirit, soul, and body. And that's that's basically what he's touching on. That's what you're saying, is we are a Trinity, a tri-unity of parts, uh, inner life and outer life, and trouble in the inner life expresses itself in a physical way, and there are physical elements that produce spiritual um consequences as well. I I was teaching on the temptation of Christ last night. Well, I think you were you were in the same passage in a ladies' Bible study, and it's interesting that Jesus was fasting from food and water and was alone, and he was the same caliber of Christian when the when the outer man was bereft of certain benefits, his character shone through. And I I said to the guys, I'm not as probably I'm not as good of a Christian when I'm hungry as I am when I'm full. Or or even I'll agree with it. Or even alone. And the Bible, the the the King James uses the word he afterward he wasn't hungry, and I said he was hungry, but he wasn't angry. So I I seed that point. So so if if we've ever wondered um why faith doesn't automatically protect us from depression, that today's conversation is really for you. So is it is it sinful to be depressed? Um is it our sin or the sins of others? What does God's word say about depression and how can we seek uh deliverance through Christ? Um so many people think that depression uh is just sadness or a lack of gratitude. So let's let's define our terms because um I think it's really important. So what when you say depression, I'm a pastor, uh you're a pastor's wife, but but you're a practitioner in the in the mental health world. So what do you mean when you use the word depression?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Well, it to answer that really to the fullest extent is it I would say it depends on what context I'm using it in. Um if I am using it in the professional world, then I'm very specific when I use the phrase depression, because there are very strong criteria that would have to be met for someone to be diagnosed with major depressive disorder. Um there's not a lot of people that do really fit all of that criteria that would use the word depressed. So I think we could use the word I am depressed in more of an emotional sense that I'm feeling depressed. Um, but I'm careful when I use the phrase in in some sort of a diagnosis. Um but I I think maybe to kind of circle back as to to what I mean maybe if I can even use the general amount of time when when I'm actually using this phrase, um I would be referring to something that someone is experiencing in their inner soul. If I if I say I'm I'm feeling deeply, I I don't use the word often just because I think it's overused, but if I were to use that phrase regarding myself, I am feeling I'm feeling very depressed today. I would be meaning I am feeling something deep within my soul that I am struggling to get past. It's not just a feeling of sadness, but there's something that's consuming me from the deepest parts of my heart.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Um I want to ask you a question. Um, so you're a Christian, obviously. You're gonna see uh even the professional counseling world as a believer, but we know that the counseling world is tapping into that inner life. What are the what do they call that?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

How do they express that? They have many different ways they state it. They they will use they will use the word spiritual. They they would not if they're not Christians and they use the word spiritual, they obviously are not meaning what we mean by that phrase, but they have if if I can use it this way, they have maybe allowed themselves to accept what they know to be there. And I mean, we could talk for a while about the conscience and and how God reveals himself through different ways in our life through creation. And so for them to deny that there is a spiritual part is for them to deny something that's an eight within them. So I'm I'm using this phrase, they're they're starting to accept what they know to be true, which there is a spiritual side.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

They have different names for it, but so if you're a Christian, if you're a non-Christian, it's native for us to tap into that immaterial, unseen, uh spiritual, solical. I mean, we could use a lot of different terms, but ultimately, as a believer, I want to point people to the ultimate healer who is Jesus Christ. Uh but it's a universal issue, is it's kind of the point I'm trying to tap into. Whether you're a Christian or not a Christian, we're we're going to be dealing with things. It's it's not that it's not the depression. You can correct me if you think I'm wrong here. It's not the depression itself necessarily, isn't it what we do with those feelings, how we channel those feelings, or to whom we turn in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

For sure. And and I'm gonna say something that that maybe sounds heretical for some when I first say it, but give me just a minute to explain. But depression in and of itself is not sin. Now, it would be like saying if you feel sad, you're a sinner. Or here's another one that maybe people struggle with. If I said you feel afraid, you're not necessarily sinning. It's something natural that God has given us. If I said you were angry, I think maybe people understand it a little better when we use anger. Well, yeah, not necessarily sinning.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

An emotion, just pick an emotion.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

It's an emotion. These are emotions that we feel. And you're exactly right when you said it's what I do with it. This is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. This is where am I sinning or am I not sinning? To act like to feel depressed is a sin. I I think we would have to talk to God about that pretty seriously and and see some explanations in even someone like David or or Elijah, or I mean, we could go through all the prophets right now or speak towards characters in scripture who who made such pronouncements, and we don't see God condemning them for what they're saying. But we do see a God who says, don't stay there.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Let's work to where we need to get you out of this, if I can use the phrase funk or this pit, that's a good Bible word. Sure. That you're currently in.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

So take a you take a snapshot in time. You talked about Elijah in the wilderness, um, David, maybe in the cave of Adolem, we could go to lots of. I want to go to the Garden of Gethsemane. Uh, my definition from a biblical standpoint of depression was a weighed-down soul. The Lord Jesus, when he prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death. And one of the things we'll learn in our series, and Mark, we're teaching through Mark on on Wednesday nights here at Calvary, is uh Mark paints Christ as the Son of Man. And as a man, he points to the emotionalism of Christ. He just taps into that the very real thing of Jesus had emotion. I just wanted to come back to that. Jesus felt sorrow, he felt joy, he felt grief.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

He felt anger.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, he did feel anger, right? But what did he what did he do with that? To what was it channeled? So the Lord Jesus Christ himself, I I don't know if I would say Christ was depressed, I would say Christ was pressed. And the term Gethsemane means press, a place of pressing and crushing as as uh demonic power was on him at that moment. The weight of the cross was felt on Christ at that moment. So if we said that depression is is maybe a it's a snapshot in time or it's a continuum of experience. It could be loss, it could be a loss of hope, it could be a prolonged burden. Um, and I know this might be a hard question. Is depression something that is just a snapshot in time like a Polaroid? I don't know if the young well, I guess young people do know what a Polaroid is.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

It's coming back.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

It came back for a few months and now it's gone. It seems like it's gone again. But is it a snapshot in time or is is depression a continuum that that we must guard our spirit based on the the circumstances of life, the burdens of life, the the difficulties of life. It might be an illness, a job loss. Well, what do you what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

I think I would answer that by saying we are emotional beings. And and to act like there's just this moment or this significant place and time where boom, I'm depressed. I I would say that I I have a hard time understanding it in that way because we experience so many emotions throughout the day. I mean, we could we could be here one moment and here another moment, depending upon what? Something that just happened. So it would be maybe let me let me read this definition. I I really like this definition of depression from a biblical sense. It says depression biblically understood is a condition of deep soul distress. And I really like what you said about Christ because that's exactly what Christ was experiencing in the Garden of Gethsemane. So much so as the Bible describes what was physically happening to him, was he was sweating drops of blood. We know obviously in a in a medical sense, these would be capillaries that were bursting on his forehead from such a deep emotional feeling that affected his physical body, right? So it's a condition of deep soul distress marked by sorrow, okay, weariness, and this is important, a loss of hope, this is very important, and felt distance, okay. So I feel a distance from what? From from life itself, from others, from God, often arising in a response to suffering. So I'm responding to what? Something that's happened, like suffering. I'm responding to a loss, I'm responding to some great fear, or to answer your other question from before, some prolonged burden that I am just experiencing because I live in a fallen world. So I think that is is very clearly defined, and I'm using the word depression, obviously, not the actual medical diagnosis, but depression as as an emotion, as a feeling.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Sure. Okay, so wow, that that paints a really crazy picture of the passion of Christ. So that's where I wanted to turn was kind of the the response to depression. So Christ is he's alone in that moment of sorrow. He's being pressed. Um there's a a sense of in his humanity he's coming to terms with the moment. Now is my hour come. Okay, he's there's a window in time when the devil can hurl all those fiery darts at Christ. And he's praying, right? He's praying. Um my soul is exceeding sorrowful even unto death. You're saying he's great drops of blood are up on upon his head. He's asked three disciples to go pray with him. They're asleep. And it's almost an avoidance sleep. You know, arise and pray. The spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. And then he comes back to them the third time and he says, Sleep on now. Let's go, sleep on now. So obviously, there's a spiritual component. Christ is laboring through this, the prolonged season of the Gospel of John. Mine hour's not come, mine hour's not come, now the time has come. This is three and a half years of developing revelation. So Christ, as our great high priest, as a believer, the Bible says Christ in his humanity, he came to this earth to fill your feelings. That's not a great way to say that. He's touched with the feelings of our infirmities. There is there is God, uh, Jesus Christ, sitting at the right hand of God, understanding what it means to be pressed out of measure, to feel a lack of hope, a disconnection. Christ, the eternal Son of God, is going to feel a separation of relationship from God. So I want you to know, if you're listening, that Jesus Christ knows where you are. He has felt what you're feeling, and there is hope only in Christ. So I think it might be a good time maybe to talk about uh maybe some scientific things that that took this conversation out of the spiritual realm, uh, placed them in the science realm, and um I think we're allowed to question the science and to see what are the what are the positive ways that we can respond uh when depressed, what are some negative ways. So I'll just I'll bring up the the the$3,000 term here, a chemical imbalance. So that was uh obviously extremely widespread. I remember hearing about that maybe when I was a kid. There was a a famous preacher who had suffered from a quote chemical imbalance, eventually took his own life. That was a man, that was a that was a horrible situation. Uh but chemical imbalance was the terminology used to kind of vindicate um he he he kind of got, I guess, full deliverance from from these feelings. So what what does that term mean and what is science now telling us about that?

SPEAKER_00 18:01

So the term you're referring to is the serotonin or chemical imbalance, and and now it's stated theory. They they would first, especially in the 90s, uh it became extremely popularized in the 90s. Um you heard that phrase, I'm sure, a lot. Oh, I'm just suffering from a chemical imbalance. But now, over many studies over long periods of time, um, of course, after so many different issues have arisen from their jump to conclusions, um, they're now saying, Oh, that was actually a theory that's that really is debunked. We can't really prove what we were saying. Um, so what exactly does it mean? I'll just state some facts for maybe people who don't really understand what this phrase even means. But so it was the idea that there is some sort of um a defect in your brain, and that they suggested that if you're depressed, well, then most likely there is lower amounts of serotonin or there's some issue stopping you um from being able to experience happiness, and maybe there's a certain chemical that is is is stopping this, and so this is why you're depressed. They're only the only reason you're feeling depressed is because there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with your brain, there's something wrong with your chemicals.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

So I'm just gonna play down for a minute. Um, what is serotonin?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So serotonin is a chemical that we have in our brains, right? And it is um, if I can use the happy, we can maybe that would be the easiest way to describe it, is it's it's a chemical that's present when we are feeling happy, right? Or at peace. Um and so the the thought, which simply put is that you're just it's just low. There's something wrong, and your your brain doesn't produce it the correct way, and this is this is why you're depressed. So depression must equal low serotonin, is is what they simply thought. And in order to fix that, we just need to create more serotonin in your brain, and if we do that, then boom, you're fixed. Of course, if you know anyone who has taken SSRIs um for a long period of time, or or or maybe and I'm I'm gonna be careful how I say it, because I am not here telling anyone not to take their medication or that your medication doesn't work or or anything like that. I am not a medical doctor, and that's something you always speak to your medical doctor about. Um, but I I am here to say if their if their theory was correct, then why are there so many depressed people still who are on medication? And I there's just a simple statistic that states um that 50% of people who have taken the SSRIs state that um it didn't work at all. There was no change. 50% said it did work, there was change. And of those 50%, half of them stated that yes, there was some change in my mood, but the side effects were too intense that that it wasn't worth what they were we were giving me. So then you have a a quarter of that who would say, Yeah, it's great, I'm I'm enjoying it, I'm gonna continue taking it. So if if the theory was so correct and so scientific, then obviously those numbers are are very wrong to support it, which we know they don't support it anymore. So what is the reason that someone is feeling depressed? Is is there something that we can say across the board, well, okay, so it's not about the the serotonin levels? Um, what could it be about? And what they're saying is, well, what we do find a commonality between people who are depressed is some some event, some life triggering or traumatic issue, or some prolonged time of dealing with if I can. Use the word hardship, that might not be the great word for that, but dealing with issues over a very long, prolonged period of time without without any sort of a hopeful change. So that is the commonality that they cannot that they can find amongst people who would be considered depressed. So to say that there's some sort of a simple fix and that, yeah, you're depressed, just take some SSRI and you'll be you'll be great. Uh science will even tell you, sorry, that's not the case.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Sure. And I want to give the caveat for uh maybe uh a pastor or a youth worker or someone inexperienced in this field to to tread very, very carefully, very lightly in this conversation that we're having. Um I don't think me as a pastoral counselor would would tell someone if they came to my office, hey, you need to stop doing that. I think that there's obviously a a physical um there's a physical reaction if people stop taking these medications. And so uh I just I did want to say that. But I I don't think you and I are either saying that we're necessarily anti-medication, no, uh we're anti-only medication as the ultimate solution. Is that a fair way to say that?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yes. And and maybe I would just double down on even what you're saying. If if you believe that your antidepressant is your I'm gonna use this word, I'm being a little dramatic, but is your savior, excuse me, then you are wrong. It it can't be a savior. There is only one savior, and that's the Lord Jesus Christ. Now I also want to be careful how I say it too, because for some people they they do experience change with an antidepressant because it does disrupt, right, whatever is happening in that moment. Does that mean it's gonna fix it? No, because then the next life-triggering event's gonna come and and boom, there's lower serotonin levels. So can it disrupt some pathways and the neurological pathways and maybe the way you experience something? Well, well, yes. I mean, what we know that because one of the side effects is that your emotions will be blunted. Or so instead of like feeling super excited about something that's taking place, it it's it's it's blunted. Or or on the opposite, you know, what what they're hoping for is that instead of feeling so overly sad in this moment, my levels is back up. So we know that it keeps things instead of like this, it keeps things like this, right? But to think that it is going to solve your problem, it it can't, because remember how we even started this episode was that it's we're not just a physical being. We are emotional, we are spiritual. And so there's so many things involved in in this topic that we can't concise it down to one thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah, I would recommend, and I should have brought it with me. Um, there's a book, I think the man's name is Eswin. I might I might be wrong about that. But the book's called Sir uh Spurgeon's Sorrows. And Charles Spurgeon is called the the Prince of Preachers. Um maybe, maybe since the Ministry of Christ, Charles Spurgeon the most um quoted and printed preacher in history. And Spurgeon went through severe despair, uh seasons of maybe devastating um soul condition being downcast. And he was living um in an age before medication really was the answer. It's interesting because if you study the story of Spurgeon, the thing that made Spurgeon Spurgeon was obviously oratory, but um he pointed men to Jesus Christ. As a teenager was pointed to Christ and became a believer. And as a preacher, he found the Lord Jesus Christ. Uh, he preached the gospel in such a powerful way. And so Christ is the answer. Um, science can help us, and I've uh I've seen you at times maybe refer people for uh short periods of time if they have extremely uh acute conditions of mind uh to maybe seek some professional help. But but we're really talking about everybody just running to a doctor who has no clinical experience, um, just maybe passing out prescriptions when a lot of times, if I could just kind of be blunt about it, a lot of times what's called depression is just maybe a Christian not right with God. Or has uh unrepented sin in their life, or is running from problems instead of running. We're gonna run in one direction. I think that's why we said not necessarily a sin, it's what we do with it. If you run to Christ, and uh you can run to the Psalms and read of David's language, when my heart is overwhelmed within me, lead me to the rock that is higher than I. Right. The the name of the Lord is a strong tower, right? The righteous run into it and they're safe. We're gonna run to something or to someone, and we're just encouraging you. It's okay to you are where you are, and Christ is there with you where you are, but we're trying to encourage you, run to Christ. In Christ we find ultimate deliverance.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah. And maybe just to kind of sum up the the subject of whether or not there's a chemical imbalance, the person who led the study, and it was it was completed in in 2022, was Dr. Moncrief. Maybe I'm saying that right, maybe I'm not, but but what she said, I'm gonna I'm gonna read her quote low mood is a response to people's lives and cannot be boiled down to a simple chemical equation. So this how she states it really reframes depression not as a malfunctioning brain, right? It's not some organ that is just malfunctioned, but often as a human response to suffering.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

But this does not mean, okay, well, you just need to think positive, right? I mean that that would be some swinging the pendulum too far the other direction. Just think positive, or or how about this your pain, that well, that's your own fault, or you you're just sinning, so that's that's what's happening. Or here's here's something. If you just had enough faith, this would fix. Um don't run too far the other way because that's that's not what we're saying either. But if I can conclude it here, is depression makes sense in the context of brokenness, lost, and and unmet needs in your life. And of course, our ultimate unmet need is the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. So it makes sense that we're are dealing with a lot of depressed people and your statistics that you read at the very beginning. Well, yeah, why? Because the world is waxing worse and worse and worse.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, the world's turned from Christ.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

So if depression really is a response to a context from which we're living, then the statistics should get higher.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

As the world is waxing worse.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

For sure. Yeah, I like what you said, and I I think that's kind of a good bow we can put on this. If you're depressed, you're not broken, you're human. I think that's that's a really important point to make here. I am human, right? Um, you're the greatest human, but you're human too. Like we all have moments of weakness in our lives. It's what we do to whom we turn. And uh, we want to encourage you really to turn to Christ. I remember reading, um, I I wish I could remember why I read this, but when we come to grips with our humanity, it's ultimately in that place we come face to face with His deity. It's as if until I recognize who I am, I never really recognize who Christ is. If I have to be strong, I don't need him to be strong. If I have to be the overcomer, I don't need an overcomer. If I'm the savior, I don't need one. But it's in that moment of pressing, of difficulty, that I recognize, no, I'm not broken. I'm just human. Like I'm I'm weak. When I am weak, he is strong. In my weakness, he's made strong. Because it's not about me, it's about the power of Christ in me. When my heart is overwhelmed within me, lead me to the rock that is higher than I. And maybe I can just insert one more thing. Depression does have this component of pushing us into isolation. So maybe describe for me, and I'll I'll I'll give my my tip on this as well. Um, isolation is a very dangerous place. To go to the wilderness alone for a day might be a mental break for you. To live in isolation is mentally destructive. God created us for community, and when I say the answer is in Christ, I'm not trying to make Christ an abstraction as if Jesus is an idea, Jesus Christ is a person, but in the person of Christ, you find every other thing you need for your life. In Christ, we find fellowship, we find community, we find acceptance, not just in Christ, but through those that know him. If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with each other. And I give all the glory to Christ because I sought Christ, and in Christ, I found all of those things that help me live a life above depression. I'll give you the last word.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Um, I I have a few last words if that's okay. I I want to say just something you pointed out um and and you said, you know, if we need to go out into the wilderness for a day, or or or whatever the case may be, but you you can't you can't forever live there. And even Christ didn't. Like I was reminded of when you said that the Bible was very clear for 40 days. For 40 days he was there. And it speaks of and I think maybe we we look at 40 days without food and water. 40 days of being completely isolated. And that was that was the limit that God had put on Christ in that moment, 40 days.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

I did make this point um last night though. He was alone but not alone, because Luke says he was driven by the Spirit into the wilderness. Mark says he was led by the spirit, so he was alone, but he wasn't alone. Yeah. And we're never alone.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

No. And and I will just even add to that, he wasn't alone um in a diabolical spiritual sense either, because we see that they they were present at at the end there of the 40 days of tempting Christ, that the demonic present was there. But what makes that even gre better to think about is that he was with the spirit though, and he wasn't fighting these demonic spirits by himself.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Yeah, and then I I'm glad you said that you had other things to say because I'm clearly inserting myself here, but it's so exciting. After his temptation, the devil departed from him, and the Bible says that the angels ministered to him. And I have seen in my life, and I know that you have as well, in those seasons of pressing, God just has a way of coming to us. Minister the when we use the word angel, we mean ministering spirits. These don't look at the angel, look at the God who sent them. But God sends messengers of relief into our lives. And so was Spurgeon depressed, yes, in seasons of his life. But God is so good to meet us in our times of affliction and minister to our spirit. So are you gonna give us the last word now?

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Well, I was I was just going to state something else that I I wanted to mention when we talked about the the chemical imbalance theory, is that part of why they they so desperately wanted to identify it as this physical brain ailment was because they thought it would make people feel better. Oh yeah, okay. I'm depressed because I have a I have a brain problem. But it actually didn't make people feel better, it actually made them feel worse. And here are a list of things that happened because of it. Increased feelings of defectiveness in people's life. Like I am, I'm a defect, there's something wrong with me. Um, it increased their pessimism of any chance of recovery. So, in other words, it the idea that they would ever get better, they they had very negative feelings toward ever having relief. It reduced belief in their personal agency, and what I mean by that, it reduced their belief that they could somehow find a way to get out of it. Um, and it increased the fear of permanence, which is I'm broken, and there is no hope. Why would Christians struggle with such uh thoughts like this? Because it collides painfully with our ideology. What the the idea that no, I'm I'm created in the image of God, so there should always be hope. There, there's always an opportunity for healing, right? And and such a such a theory would decrease anybody's feeling of there actually being hope. And also it collides aggressively with redemption because that's what we experienced in Christ, that Christ can make all things new. But if I have a uh default or defective brain, then then I'm there's irretrievably broken. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

And it also it also collides with what Christians know and understand that there is meaning in suffering, right? There is a meaning for my suffering. I I may not know what it is in this moment. Maybe I'll know later on in life, but I will eventually understand my suffering in eternity. So such a theory would negate all of these things that we know to be true in our Christian perspective.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, that's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

So that was my other sidetrack, but to to sum it all up, I'll let you have the last words.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

I appreciate it because I do have something I want to say. Well, that's why we have great conversations, is uh we want to spur each other to Christ. So, did you have something you want to say? Yes. So when you were talking about it, I the Lord reminded me that our job is to steward every gift God provides for us. And so God might give us a gift of um difficulty. Lee Robertson said, trouble born in the spirit of Christ produces greatness in the life of the believer. We're not expecting a problem-free life, no one has one, but we want to steward our heart, we want to steward our test, because yeah, Christ and his plan sometimes unfolds in a Garden of Gethsemane. If it be possible, and it's it's a rhetorical frame. It's not possible. Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. But it's not possible. But if it is, is there another way? No, there's there's no other way. This is the way. So there in God's sovereignty, he allows trials into our lives to conform us to the image of Christ. And we know that all things work together for good to them who love God, to them who are called according to his purpose, for whom he did foreknow he predestinated to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. So steward that in your heart. We want to make sure we run to Jesus Christ, the great physician. We want to make sure we run to people that have been through pain, who've experienced loss, who have felt stretched out of measure, who can lead us in our hearts out of isolation into community where we can find ultimate relief and victory in the person of Jesus Christ. I want to end with this verse. There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man, but God is faithful. And He can lead us out. He can lead us into it, He can lead us through it, He can lead us out of it into victory. And we do have a wonderful God. And I I just I know in my life what God has done for me. I've seen him perform deliverance in the lives of others, and so that's our subject today. Take this cultural connection if you're a Christian, speak hopefully to people who are struggling with loss in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Tap tap into that piece that Christ was explaining. And I know you already touched on this, but I want to just give it a nice little bow. In the Garden of Gethsemane when when Christ had gone to his disciples the third time, and he said, Could could you not even just pray an hour? And then he says something amazing. He says, Now sleep on, now get up and let's go. And where were they going to face the greatest trials that they were ever going to face? But he says something extremely powerful, sleep on. He obviously didn't mean go to sleep, but what did he mean? He he meant rest. Rest in me as we go through these battles together, understanding that God has ordained this path. And that's what Christ was doing. He was he was getting his his assurance from God. Is it possible to let this cup pass? Nevertheless, okay. It's not possible, it's not gonna pass. But I can still tap into the peace that I can only feel when I am walking through this trial or this test or this temptation or this struggle or or this loss when I tap into the peace that that is found in the Lord Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Amen. Look to Christ. This was Spurgeon's salvation verse. Look into me and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth. There's hope in Christ, and we hope that you found some of that hope through the episode today. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you'll like and share this episode, and it might spur your own thinking and reading along these lines. Reach out to us if we can ever help you, and we'd love to be a blessing to you. So we'll see you next time on Cultural Connections.