S1E4 Secondary Root

In this session of the Be Rooted Podcast, Nick shifts the focus from what’s happening within us to what’s happening around us — what he calls the secondary root system.

If the primary roots define who you are…
the secondary roots are the people, relationships, and environments that influence how you grow.

Because no matter how strong your foundation is, the connections in your life have the power to either:

• reinforce your roots
• or slowly erode them

Nick unpacks how our relationships impact our spiritual formation and why intentional discipleship cannot happen in isolation.

In this session, you’ll discover:

• Why you were never meant to grow alone
• How the people around you are actively shaping your life
• The difference between life-giving and life-draining relationships
• How to cultivate connections that actually drive your roots deeper

This is a call to examine who’s in your life… and what they’re producing in you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So I'm gonna start off this episode by being a little bit real. So I made a couple of mistakes. Uh one was kind of um a lack of clarity, and the other was a mistake. So in today's episode, before we even get started, I want to apologize, but also just kind of um set the uh set it straight. So I used a Greek word, um, and I just mispronounced it when I said it, but the mispronunciation was actually a different Greek word. Um, so forgive me for um using the Greek word and mispronouncing it. Um there in the episode there is kind of an overlay of the word that it's supposed to be. Um, but I'll let you um hear the definition and and how I use it in this show. Um so just as a disclaimer, um, thank you for your patience. As I am learning Greek, I am not a Greek expert by any means. Um, I have some tutors and um and I'm doing some I'm digging deeper into uh learning the Greek language. So um give me a little bit of um of latitude if you would please. Thank you. Um the other thing that I that I felt like was just a misclarification um was I made the statement that you can't love yourself without loving others. Now, again, I'll let the episode explain this out more, but I want to just clarify that that statement in and of itself is wrong. And I wish you would have said it a little bit different, so I'm gonna say it today. I'm gonna say it now. And that is you can't do it God's way and love yourself without loving others. So it at minimum, if you try to do it, you're gonna be selfish. And the the at worst, if you do that, you're gonna be a narcissist. So if you're only loving yourself, um, that's basically what narcissism is, and it's an extreme and unhealthy love of self. Um, so I want you to understand that that but I also think that this is a good opportunity for authenticity, right? So uh thank you. And so the vibe for today's episode is all gonna be about relationships, relationships with others, relationships with yourself. It's what I call the secondary root systems of of your healthy uh tree. So um, if if you can give me a little bit of space on this, I thank you, and I hope you enjoy the rest of this episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Hey friends, welcome to the Be Rooted Podcast with your host Nick Kugler, author, discipler, and your guide on this journey. Around here, we mix ancient and modern wisdom with real life principles so you can grow deep roots and live out your faith intentionally. So let's stay curious and dive in.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

So today we're going to talk a little bit about the secondary relationships. Actually, we're going to dive deeper into one side of this secondary taproot system that builds the foundation of our healthy tree above that gives us the ability to sustain our struggles and our trials and whatever is going on above the surface. Um, the secondary root system that we're going to deal with today is the relationship with others. Now, you can't actually talk about this secondary root without actually talking about the other side, and that is your relationship with self. You see, in the Great Commission when, or Great Commandment, where Jesus actually says, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. The second side of that commandment is this here. You can't love others unless you love yourself. And you can't love yourself unless you love others. Like they're they're the same thing. You can't separate them. So the word there in Greek is is the word choras, and it actually is means as, which is in the same manner and at the same time. Like you don't you don't get to choose which one. Now you might actually lean into one a little bit more, and and that one will help you with the other one. And sometimes you lean into the other one a little bit more, and that will help you with the first one. But these are these two things go together and they can't be separated. So loving your neighbor in the same manner and at the same time as you love yourself. So we will talk about self uh a little bit later, probably a little bit more in depth in a later episode. But today I want to focus on what does it look like to grow and to be in relationship with others? So psychology has begun to term a few phrases. One of them is the four social spaces. I ran into this several years ago, I want to say probably about 10 to 12 years ago or so. We started to talk about how do the four social spaces impact our space and impact how we interact within our space. And these are rules that we just kind of almost unintentionally, we just live by them. You know, like something as simple as what direction do you face when you enter a uh an elevator? It's really weird when somebody turns to face you in an elevator. So that's that would be breaking a social space norm. Um, the reason why I want to share these four spaces with you is because one of the things I've noticed is I believe that every person has a space they're gonna feel just naturally more comfortable with. And other spaces where you're may not feel naturally comfortable with. And if you're trying to grow in a deep, intimate relationship with somebody and they're not good at that space, it might make things hard. And if you're one of those people that you just don't like being in public spaces, then you that's not the best place for you to maybe grow in that relationship. So this is just to be aware of. I'm not gonna dig into them, but if you recognize these tendencies, then you can begin to at least give people allowance for the space that feels more comfortable to them and can help you to understand the spaces where you feel more comfortable. And those are the spaces that as you're starting a relationship are important to lean into those things because you feel safe there. So those four social spaces are public, they are social, they are private, and intimate. So as you look at those particular spaces, there are numbers that kind of will will help to help us to see what those spaces look like and what makes up those spaces. Now, when I say intimate, I don't mean that in a in a um male-female, cogendered kind of like uh sexual relationship. Intimate is just the capacity to be really real with another person. Actually, I I I love the quote that I actually stole from Josh McDowell, who actually stole it from some uh a young girl. I I heard him give this definition in a podcast from like 2007, I believe. And it's the intimacy is that it is the capacity to be real with another person. And I've grown to add my own little um tale to that definition, and that is intimacy is the capacity to be real without fear of judgment or rejection. Now, you can have that in a cogender relationship, you can have that in a cross-gender relationship. Like if you have the space to be vulnerable and the space to be real and the space to be authentic, then you have the capacity for a deeply intimate relationship. And on the other side of the spectrum is public. That's not a place for you to for you to be that vulnerable. So generally speaking, um, these spaces are going to be maybe one to three. So relationship of one person, maybe three people. So once you get beyond three, then then private becomes more like a four to twelve to fifteen people. Once you start getting beyond the the the 15 people, like a small group, so to speak, or maybe a bowling league and the people around you, that you lose the ability to to kind of have a private setting. And then social, then would be more like 15 to 75 to 80 people. You know, these are larger events that you find yourselves in. Um, and then public would be 80 plus, right? Uh now these are generic numbers. Science kind of wavers a little bit as to what they are, but the reality is that most of us will feel comfortable in one of these places. Like, I'm not really good in social space. It's it's just close enough to where I should get to know you, and and I and there are space for me to talk to you and get to, but I'm so overwhelmed by all the people that I may or may not know, or even if I know all of them, then I feel overwhelmed because I want to invest in all of them and I can't. So I'm I'm just not good in this space between 15 to 80 people because I I really want to invest deeply. Now, I'm actually okay on the the public end of the spectrum because I don't have to know anybody. I can enter into a space and like there's no obligation to get to know you. There's like it just is what it is. So if I run into somebody that I know or I like or I want to, then I I have the freedom to do that, but there's no obligation to. So it doesn't train me. I'm I'm more wired towards private and even more so intimate. I I love sitting one-on-one with somebody, even if I've never met you before. And we can sit down and we can just get to know each other. We can begin, you can see me, and I can see you, and and and I get to see your little twicks and your your idiosyncrasies, and and I get to watch whether or not your hands are tapping or your toes or or your legs are wiggling, are you nervous? Like those are the types of things that I like, I really enjoy growing in intimate space. So why is that important? Because you have a tendency, you have a place that you feel comfortable, and if you really want to build or grow your relationships with others, it helps to know who you are and how you're wired. But it's also a way of helping us to understand that we might be missing some opportunities. Social space is extremely important for me to enter into because that's where I meet new people, that's where I create the opportunity to set up a coffee with somebody, to go a little bit deeper, maybe invite them to a smaller thing or go and ask them if they want to go bowling or something like that. Like I'm not gonna do that in a public space, that just feels weird. But if I get into a social space where I can begin that relationship, you see, I don't want to just lean into the the good stuff because that's what I like. I also have to be aware of the stuff that I'm not comfortable with because there are opportunities to grow in relationship with others, and that's super important. So, that being said, I want to take the next layer of relationships. What are the kinds of relationships that I'm trying to find within these social spaces? And I know part of B ministries, everything's gotta start with a B. At least that's that's just who I am, is what I'm doing. It's so no, let's, let's, let's do this, right? So the first relationship is the relationship uh with somebody who has gone before you. They're a little bit farther down the road in their career, they're a little bit older, maybe just in their life circumstances. Now, this isn't just an age thing. I mean, age obviously can play a factor in that. Like if I'm if I need somebody to help me or to mentor me in my relationships with my kids, it's probably good that I find somebody that's got kids that are older than mine. Somebody who's been through some of that stuff. Um, I have a friend in my life who his name is Jason. He has three daughters. Well, I have three daughters. His three daughters are basically four years younger than each of my daughters, maybe three, but three years younger than each of my daughters. So I literally went through every stage that he went through just a few years before he did. But that being just a few steps farther was very beneficial to my friend. Because as he's trying to raise his three daughters, and I'm trying to raise mine, I was able to help him, at least in some instances, help him to miss out on some of those landmines that I stepped on when I was raising my daughters. So it's, and we're actually the same age. So it's not just an age thing, it can be an experience thing. So in in this conversation, we're talking about being intentional about your discipleship. So what I really want you to hone in on is somebody that's a little farther along in their discipleship. Somebody that's maybe been in their relationship with Jesus a little bit longer. Maybe there's maybe if you're entering into ministry or you're getting a job at a church or you you are a secular business owner or somebody working there, you know, how do you live the life of a faithful Christian as a business owner or as an employee? Well, one of the best ways to do that is to find somebody who's gone before you and ask them to help you to avoid some of those landmines, some of those potholes or some of those branches that maybe they've tripped over on their path. So that's the person who's gone before you. Now, the next person is the person who is beside you. Now, just like the experience and the age thing kind of plays a factor, this often plays a factor in the kinds of relationships that we have when we're beside somebody. It's going through the same thing. Honestly, my relationship with Jason was a beside relationship almost just as often as it was a before relationship. Because sometimes we were going through the same things together. We were going through the same kinds of things together. Now, for me, one of the places that's most that was most beneficial is when I first entered into ministry full-time. Like I was changing vocations. I was I used to be an auto mechanic and and entering into something where I was doing church stuff like every day. I was reading on purpose, I was reading differently, I was reading scripture differently, I was reading other books differently, and I was being worn down differently, and I wasn't used to it, I didn't know. But when I was able to walk alongside other men in the same kind of ministry that I was in and grow in relationship with them, it lightened the load. Because they were going through the same things I was going through. I was able to share with somebody that understood what I was going through. I was able to share with them my financial struggles when I'm trying to build up a self-funded ministry, and most everybody else in my life had no idea what that was like. To try to get somebody to invest in your calling before God was so hard. To try to do something for God, but you still need kind of provision. You still need that. And to ask somebody to invest in that felt really weird to me. But guess what? Felt weird to everybody that I was walking alongside and that I wasn't alone. Some people were better at it than others, and I wanted, and I came up alongside, and others came alongside me as going, hey, we're in this together. Let's let's let's figure this out. Um, I have other people that are in the same stage of life with me in parenting, that most of my kids have just graduated. I'm entering into the empty nest phase, and I got other friends that are roughly the same age that are going through the same kinds of things and going, This is weird. To to have a kid and then not have kids, to to be the parent, the authoritative parent, and then transitioning from that to like coach. Like, I don't get to tell you what to do anymore. I just have to be there to help you through whatever you're going through. It was it's extremely helpful to have people that are going through the same kinds of things you're going through. And I think one of the primary reasons is because God doesn't want you to feel alone. You're going through the same kinds of things, and there's somebody out there that's that's going through that. So find that person who can walk along side of you. But then the last one is behind. This is the space where you get the opportunity to kind of look back and go, who's following me? Who's maybe a few steps behind, who's maybe a lot of steps behind. But this has been one of the most beneficial relationships in my life. You see, I've been a youth sponsor at a church. I've I I love growing and building relationships with young men and helping them to traverse their their life, their relationships, their their entering into new careers or what they're doing in college. Most of it, honestly, was relationship-based. Because what does a teenage boy need to know more than how to treat a young teenage girl? It's it's it's an extremely important part. But what I want you to see is that I'm not just a benefit to the people that are following me, the people that are following me are a benefit to me. Like one of the most impactful realities that I have come to understand is like I want to be a man of integrity, and I honestly think that everybody has a deep-seated need or desire to be a person of integrity. So the person that benefited most from all the advice that I had given these young men wasn't them. It was me. Because when when when they asked me, well, how do you treat your wife? or how do you treat your daughters, and how do you treat, like, if I wanted them to treat women that way, I had to learn how to do it. And I had to learn how to live it. I had to learn how to be it. So every time I would say, Hey, well, yeah, you shouldn't do that, more often than not, the Holy Spirit would slap me in the face and go, are you are you doing that? Are you treating her with that much respect? Are you showing her what grace truly looks like? Are you giving her new mercy every morning? Are you helping your daughters to see the image of God through your behavior? I was not always very good at that. So the person that benefits most isn't always the person who's actually learning from you. You're learning as you help them through their life. You're growing. And the same is true for my before relationships. Um, if one of my my first interview that I that I had was that I'm going to be sharing on this podcast is with one of my before relationships. He's a little older. In life, and he's been in numerous ministry experiences, and he's a person that has invested in me over the years. Well, I get to invest in him. We both benefit from that relationship. So again, I the I I can't have this conversation without giving you a little bit of a challenge and saying, you can't have all yeah, you can't. You don't need all three of these in your life all the time. You need all three of them in your life at any given point. Sometimes you need that guy that's beyond you, and you don't have a lot of energy for the guy behind you because you're just trying to make it through life, and that's okay. And sometimes you you just don't have the space. When I was a young parent and in the throes of life, and there's so many things going on, I couldn't invest in all three of these. I could I didn't have time for the people that were before me and to invest in the people behind me. But I did over time and through the years found the benefit in all three. And now that I'm older, I make time for all three of them. And and but I want to give you the freedom to not go, oh great, and now I'm failing in all these different areas. How do I fix this? I want you to go, hey, what do you have space for? And how can you be intentional? And what do you need the most? Maybe you have experience that you've never shared. And the thing that you need the most is the ability and the opportunity to share it. So ask God who is following you, who's behind you, who is already in your sphere of influence that could benefit from some of your life experience. That doesn't mean you have to be the most biblically knowledgeable person. You just have to be willing to love somebody. Love somebody enough to care about their situation, to care about who they are, and to get to know them. Because as you get to know them, you will be able to give them and to help them with what they need. And sometimes it's scripture. Actually, a lot of times it's the foundations that scripture provides for us that we need more than the words themselves. When Jesus says that this is the greatest commandment, he actually says this is the greatest precept, this is the greatest foundation for you to build your life on. So sometimes what people need to hear from you is what your experience, how you made it through your experience with the help of God. What scriptures did you use and help them to find scriptures that will help them? They don't have to be the same ones. So my challenge is this. Which one of these relationships do you need in your life? If you don't know, pray about it. Think about it. Maybe if you have one of these relationships in your life, ask them what do you think? You know me. Where would I benefit most? What relationship route do I need to drive a little deeper? In order to help build the foundation that will help me in my future. So thank you for joining me again today. Thank you for accepting this challenge. Thank you for your prayerful consideration as to the relationships that are gonna benefit your growth most. Remember, stay curious, my friends. It's really hard to be intentional about authenticity outside of relationships. You can't really truly understand your situation if you're the only one looking at it. You need other people's perspectives, you need uh people around you that know you sometimes better than you know yourself to help you to discover the things that are true. I mentioned in my content today that um people speaking into my life helped me to be authentic by not necessarily trying to be something I'm not, but actually helping me to discover what I am. So that's what I really want to do. I want to build a community that helps you navigate your your life and that includes and probably your prior your priority, the priority of discipleship. Your relationship with God, your growing in relationship with Him and into the likeness and the fullness of Christ. So if you want to be part of this community, please like these videos, subscribe them, they will help the community to grow and to be built. But don't just simply subscribe in isolation. Send me questions, send me um struggles that you might be having or things that you would like to talk about. And if you email berooted at beministries.net, maybe one of your you know comments or struggles could be the source of a video that would help other people in our community. And then share, share these videos with other people, share the podcast with other people. But most of all, I want you to be interacting with me in this community and in this journey. So I hope you can be intentional today about some of your next steps in discipleship, and hopefully, I can help you along the way.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

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