Sam Tawney Pt3 - Discipleship in Community

Part 3 is finally here.  Get ready as your host Nick Koogler and Sam Tawney finish up their talk on Discipleship in Community.  Remember My friends stay curious.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

F for URL today is the completion of arc station F F uh F U R 1 and Part 2 Up Conversation F I F R D Code Principles and from the first couple of episodes. I'm sure there will be more to come as we finish up this conversation with stay. So buckle up, grab your cup of coffee, and let's get ready to ride.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Hey friends, welcome to the Beep Rooted Podcast with your host, Nick Kugler, author, discipler, and your guide on this journey. Around here, we mix ancient and modern wisdom with real life principles so that you can grow deep roots and live out your faith intentionally. So let's stay curious and dive in.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

And so I had to become mean. And that was that young man period in my life where I'm no longer getting my folks are no longer doing anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

They're not getting.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

And you had somebody that can't walk alongside of you that was a major influence in helping you to discover that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And it just reminded me of uh something I was wrestling through in scripture a little while ago, and that's the the idea of salt and light, that we are called to be salt and light. And the it really kind of hit me that that what salt and light have in common is their ability to expose the true nature of something. Like they they draw out the the flavor of something, or and like it with light, it it points and exposes the true nature of something. And I think the the cool part about that is you had somebody in your life that was being salt and light to you. They were exposing the true, this, the true character and nature of young Sam Tawney, and some of that lined up with scripture and some of it didn't. And you had to say to yourself, this is the truth, this is the reality about who I am. And then I don't I don't really want this stuff that's not of God. I I I want to choose this other stuff, but that there's something beautiful about how light exposes things, and and then we're forced to kind of contend with our reality. And what are we gonna do with it?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

There's a weird principle in scripture, you don't work, you don't eat, right? Yep, and that that's in a social construct. That's a podcast related. But yet, part of part of what drove me to understand what I believed is because I'm gonna have to stand on my own. And if if I don't, I'm not gonna go out there and look dumb and not know what I believe and not be able to defend the faith. And and and so uh that was, you know, there's all that stuff that goes on in that transition period of moving from a boy into a young man. And you know, I think to some degree we've lost that in our culture a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Oh not to some degree, we've totally lost that.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

But but you know, I mean, one of the things my son came to me, he had graduated college and he was doing commercial real estate here in town and doing quite well, and uh he's like, Dad, I think I'm gonna move to Texas. He had a couple buddies down there, and I'm like, Hey, now's the time to do it. Okay, no debt, yeah, no, you're not married, you don't have family. If you're gonna do it, now's the time to do it. Yeah, and it it it it cemented in me that he was looking to be a man. Yeah, he wasn't looking to be Sam Tawney's son anymore, he was looking to be a man, his own person, his own person, yeah, and so you know, now okay, now he's down there, now he's married, now he's a couple of kids, now he's got a couple kids, it's a whole other level.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Well, and that brings it to something like I was totally resonating with what you're talking about because it reminded me, and you kind of had it from a because you were raised in a church, you were raised in that background. I was raised with church as an ancillary part of life. I mean, it was there, I I kind of knew who Jesus was, but I was not a faithful follower. Our church, we didn't go to church on a regular basis growing up. But my pivotal moment, my my crossroads was when I became a father.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

And and and my and I had a daughter. And for me, it was it wasn't like, are you gonna own this faith? For me, it was I I don't remember who said it. I wish I could give them credit. It was a long time ago. Um, but I heard the phrase, your daughter will marry the image of her father. And I looked at my life in that moment and I went, that's scary. I don't want my daughter marrying this. You know, so for me, it was it wasn't the Bible verse that changed my life. It wasn't, it was, it was this reality that that my daughter eventually is gonna be looking, and she might end up with somebody like me. So I gotta become the kind of man that I want her to be with. And and that was really was the the thing that I was a genesis to my journey towards faith. I, you know, I had other people in my life that that obviously played big roles in me finding that. Um, but that was my motivation. I just wanted to be a good dad. And I think that's something that it's okay. Whatever it is is gonna draw you into the presence of God, like do it. Like, and it's never too late.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

No, it never is. And you have these watershed moments where I think the spirit of God's going, hey, I think about this. Yeah, hey, hey, hey, hold on, hold on. Uh, you know, think about this. And you know, when you have your first child, it's like, oh my heart, what a like smacks you in the face. I better become a man soon. My son said something which I told my wife back when we had our first child. He goes, Dad, I never really understood love until I had my first child. And he's laying there totally helpless, and he's totally dependent on me to supply the physical. And and and so part of what we're doing now with our family group is we have three that have children, one that's probably gonna have in a period of time here. Um, I'm capturing that and going, okay, we need to study the scriptures. And and we're just diving in, studying the scriptures. I don't have any track for them, it's just we're reading Luke.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Yeah. Because we got to get into the scriptures, we gotta start embedding hiding the word in our hearts so that I might not send against you.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

That's what I told him. I said, This is and and one of them, in fact, is like, I want to do more. And so I'm doing a second study with him. So I'm like, dude, this is just a building block. I'm not gonna get into every nuance of all the scriptural bunny trails that I could take you all down on on this section in Luke. We're just gonna read it for what it is, and probably a couple little things to bring some color to it. But yeah, this is a building block. And then when we do the next book, the next book, and when you read and when you hear, there's blocks that are put on, you know, type of thing. And I think that's part of at that phase of life when they're a spiritual child or moving into the young manhood early in their young manhood, um, to help them go, you gotta read this and you gotta call some stuff from this. And and there's just not that expectation when you're when you're when you're in a large setting.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I want to well pause for a second and bring us back just to that, just that moment, because I think it's what you're what you're pointing to is the different intentionalities of discipleship. I mean, literally, like be rooted is intentional discipleship. So I'm gonna I want to point that out because like you're being intentional with your family, you're being intentional with your own faith, you're being intentional about being a man of integrity, you're being there's so many different layers, but like intentionality is simply doing something on purpose. You know, and some of that starts with something you said earlier, and that's just knowing your purpose. Like, I I can't do something for a reason if I don't really know what the reason is. And what you're what you're pointing to is going, like, I want you to have the kind of faith that draws you into the presence of God, like I have. You know, and and I want to help you find your journey, I want to help illuminate your identity, I want to find all these things, but like, how do I do that on purpose? You can't make your own manhood. Like, we need people in our lives that that are willing to bestow manhood upon 100%, you know, and that that is that is the job of a father.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Now, some people don't have a father, I get that. So you need a surrogate, right? But I look at my son.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

So there's three kinds of fathers. I love this because you said the word surrogate, and I love that word. Yeah, that I think there are biological fathers, surrogate fathers, and then ancillary fathers. That there are there's a biological father, your job is to train up your children in the way they are designed to go, and then they will not depart from it. But then we have these surrogate fathers when there's somebody who's missing in your life that that you kind of become, you take on that role in a way to, and what is the primary role of a father? Is to help somebody to find their identity. And then the then the ancillary father, which is a very important part role too, is, and this is one that I think we've lost track of in our culture that was way more prevalent in more ancient cultures, and that's like I I want other fathers in my daughter's lives. Sure. It and it's because they're gonna hear things from them that I can say a hundred times and they'll never receive it from me.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

One of the things to help move along, right, in my my son's life, that when he graduated from high school, it's like, okay, I gathered all these letters from guys right that that knew him, like his basketball coach and one of his small group leaders, and my brothers, and you know, and and gathered them all together and gave them to him as a package. And and that was uh, dude, this is who you are. And one of the things that I attempt to do, probably not as frequently as I should, but honor them for what they do, honor them for what they do, and more importantly, honor them for who they are. Yeah. And and just in a simple text, and I think that when I sat down with these first two these boot camps group and went, my goal is to help you be a mature disciple of Christ. You know, I use the term elder, right? Be? Be, right? To just be to be a mature disciple of Christ, because there are people in your home, you know, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff we talked about, right? And and and I think that, you know, when Jesus said follow me, he didn't just say follow me, he said, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. He had an intentionality back to your point. Yeah, he had an intentionality about what he was doing. And so with these guys, I own that principle, though. My my intention with you is to move you from a child, young man to a father. I want you to be a short.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

And to point back to that just that scripture for a second, like I will make you fishers of men. What does he do? He he's tearing at the root of their identity. So you see yourself as a fisherman, right? But I'm going to alter your identity completely. And by the end of our two and a half to three year journey, like whatever that is, you're gonna be a fisher of men. You're no longer gonna bear this identity. I'm gonna give you something completely different. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

And so, what I do from a challenge perspective with my sons and sons-in-law, and with those that I'm working with, I I say you are a spiritual leader. God has given you a spiritual leadership in your family. So you have to own that. And because you're a spiritual leader in the family, you don't have the right to say I'm not gifted in leadership. Not at all.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

If you're a dad, not at all, you're leading.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

And then secondly, it's my the second challenge is the whole discipleship concept of you need to make disciples. And wherever you go, wherever you go, you're called to sprinkle, you're called to cast seed. All you gotta do is cast seed. You're not responsible for the fruit, but you have to, you have to own that because you are, Corinthians, an ambassador for Christ. You are commanded while you're going to make disciples. And I'm not letting you out of that.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Right?

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I'm not letting you out of that. We talk about that, and not in a not in that intense, because I really believe that, right? Yeah, and because that's what drives me. What drives me is I want to, I don't want to waste time, you know, redeem the time for the days are evil, even more so now, yeah, right? And and so you got guys that pop on the scene like this, this Charlie Kirk, and I go, that guy was well spoken, incredible testimony. His number one thing in life was my goal is to become a great follower of Jesus Christ. Yep, you know, that was his number one goal. And I go, okay, that's that's what we need to own. That's transferable. All right, that's I want that, man. That's transferable. For sure. And so the more I we always talk about that because if you don't talk about it, then it doesn't happen. And furthermore, when it starts happening, you celebrate it. That's why the note, you know, the notes to my son, the text to my sons and daughters.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

And well, and you bring back something that that I think is important, and you know, and that's this kind of this performance culture that we live in, that it's like, and one of the phrases that I like to use is we weren't called to be human doings.

unknown 13:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

We're called to be human beings, and it will and there, yeah, we gotta do things, and all people do things, but you are called to be a human being. Then you're called to be something, and and being will flow out, and and as you become something, you know, as you believe in the father and the son, and you believe in who he's called you to be, and as you belong to his community and you belong to the relationship with him, and and then you you become the kind of person that he wants you to be, you know, but it's it really is. I've really been trying to emphasize, you know, I want to praise the things you do, but I so much more just want to praise the person you are. Right. Like just you're right, you are an incredible person.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

The praise flows out of who you are. You're such an encourager, thank you for. Um, man, it's great that that person's now asking you questions about this and that you're open to that. You have a passion to see Christ come alive in other people's lives. Yeah, you know, the one of the guys, he's got a guy in his office who's uh like exploring. And so he's got two groups he's working with already. One group that's like, okay, we're kind of into the faith, but we don't really know. We're kind of just starting our journey. You know, they're they're kind of at the end of that childhood stage and kind of need to move into that young man stage. And so he's got two well group of those two guys, and then one guy who's like, I don't even he's not not even in, he's not even a spiritual child yet that he knows of. Yeah, and so but he so he's asking questions all the time. Yeah, and and he's like, Okay, God has appointed me to answer this guy's questions. So, you know, it's a state of being, and the spirit of God brings people into life and out of that being.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

And everything flows exactly. Like what is coming in will flow out. And the more that I that I find my state of being rooted in my relationships with God and my relationship with the community and all that, that that like everything else that that flows out of that will be healthy, will be good. So I feel like we're hitting the end of uh of our time. We um so I want to draw us in. I mean, this is definitely gonna be a multi-part thing. We're not this won't be one podcast, but um, if there is something that, because I also want to point out to to you guys that are listening and watching that everything that we've talked about is discipleship, right? It's it is this process of this journey that you've used that word a second ago, where it starts someplace and it and it doesn't end until he calls us back into eternity, right? That we're constantly on this journey of becoming more mature in the likeness of Christ. So there's so many different things that we've um touched on today. Part of this podcast that as it develops will be actually coming back to probably numerous pieces that we've that we've talked about and just like digging a little deeper into what some of these things look like, to maybe um exposing some scripture to a greater extent and things like that. Uh, so this is just I think it's an incredible start, and I love where this is gonna go. Um, I want to just let you guys know that if there is something that that a question that has been unearthed by what we're what we've been talking about, I want you to be able to interact with me because as we go, I want this podcast to be a journey that is relational and that you are part of that journey and that you can join us in this relational journey towards discipleship. You know, it's an electronic relationship, maybe to an extent, maybe it goes deeper, but I want your interaction and reaction. Um, so to close us out, because this is a man here that has fountains of wisdom. Um I'm just gonna I'm just gonna ask the final question. So if there's something that you want to tell this audience, and and we've had conversations, so you know the audience that we're trying to target here, what's the the last bit of advice that's gonna close out our session together?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Wow, that's a big question.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

It's a big question, but I trust you. You got this.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I I would say uh in my journey, the the single most important for me thing for me right now, and I if I wish I would have known this 20 years ago. Okay, I wish I would have known this.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yeah, it's a great place to be.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Um I wish I would have known that discipleship is relational, situational, intentional, all the stuff we've talked about, right? And not informational. Although there's information in it. Yeah, for sure. But it doesn't stop there. It it has to have all those components mixed, but that your life style, your life calling is to be a disciple and a discipler. And one day I'm gonna stand before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And I want to hear the words well done. And so I wish I would have started differently 20 years ago. Uh I can't go back and redo stuff, but I praise the Lord that Henry came into my life. I praise the Lord that Dave Edwards came into my life, I praise the Lord that other guys who are now journeying with me, who are challenging me and how to be a better discipler, have come into my life. But the time to start is when you're younger.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

And not try and win at Bible trivia type of thing. So anyway, that's well, not really much to grab on to, but thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Um, and I can see you're even getting emotional with that. So I'm not not to push that emotional barrier in the way.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

No, no, no, no, no, no. I live my life. I live my life by I want to hear well done. Well, that's what I want to hear well done.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Thank you for your investment in me because you're doing it. Like, well done. Like, I know you'd want to hear it from God, not me, and you will, yeah, but like thank you for all of your investment in me. Thank you for the investment in others, and I know that you're gonna keep stay on this journey, and you're gonna no matter what, you're gonna keep discipling people. So I and I don't want to I don't want to take away from what you said, but I also want to send a little bit of a note to those people that are maybe a little farther along in their journey. Um, so there's an old ancient Chinese proverb that says, when is the most important time to plant a tree? And like you said, that that's 20 years ago. Like then you have a full-fledged tree. But the second most valuable time to plant a tree is right now, it's today.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, and and I've got a guy in one of my boot camps who's 63 or 64. Yeah, and he's recognizing that I've not moved through to be a spiritual father, and so great, great, so start today.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Let's start today, and let's start praying about like who has God already brought into your life. And let's not let's let's not disqualify somebody because they don't fit the picture or that maybe you don't connect well with them. Like, if God's bringing you, just bring a little Jesus. So I think that that is that is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Start now.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Start now. Start now, start now, or or keep going now. Like if you if you start 20 years, like what's what's got God for you now? And I think that's the the beautiful part of what this Be Ministries is about and what be rooted is, and it really is about being in the present. Like, where are you right now? What is your next right step? You know, yes, you can be informed by your past, good and bad, and you can be informed by your future, the kind of person you want to be, or the kind of person you are becoming, whether you like it or not. And those things can inform you, but what are you doing today? Yeah, and how do you how do you just follow him today? So here's for a future, future podcast. Okay. No, this is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

There's some there's some things that from a church organization perspective, yeah, that I think are critical in order to develop discipleship. And really, I I think it would be really valuable to talk about, whether it's me or somebody else. Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Maybe we just uh put this in the on the calendar and we don't know exactly when this is gonna happen. This might happen, you know, in a year, who knows? But let's let's get back to that conversation and have it because as you can tell, I just love having the conversation with lately. Well, you Guys, don't see is that almost every time we meet, this is what happens. So you just kind of got you know behind the curtain a little bit, like an odds where you get to see what's a little bit. So I want to thank you. I want to thank you for the time. I want to thank Sam for you know all that you've given um today, both in my life and in the lives of others. And I just want to remind you guys to stay curious. I'm sad that this conversation is over because it could continue to go. And as you just heard, um, we will likely have another conversation with Sam uh because he wants to come back. Uh probably wants to have a little bit of conversation around more of the organizational structures that he's seen in the church today and how maybe we can make some changes or at least inspire some some growth in some of those areas. So I am excited to have that. Not sure when we're gonna do it, but as you saw in the podcast, uh recording, we've already committed to that, so hey, we'll see when. Uh, so the intentional step for today is I honestly it's gonna be very simple. Love your family, love God, love your family. I think that's the nuance that I took from this particular um episode where we talked a little bit more about um just Sam's relationship with his boys and his relationship with himself and even with his his his parents growing up, and um there's something powerful about just your your local nuclear family. Yes, I want you to be invested in your church family, but never at the expense of the the family that God has given you. You have be been a become a steward of your relationships in that family, whether you're a child loving and honoring your your parents well, or you're a parent learning how to love and and grow and to nurture a child, or it's a husband or you're a husband and a wife, how do you love them through the lens that God loves them through? How do you nurture them and cultivate an environment where God can shape them and grow them at the speed that He wants to grow shape and grow them while you enter into your relationship with Him as well? Because the most beneficial thing that you could ever offer your family is a strong relationship with God. A strong uh relationship and an identification of yourself, like having a strong identity that is rooted in in the truth of the gospel and in the strength of his mighty word. Like there is if you can do that like man, that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. You're not always gonna get it right. I didn't always get it right. I still don't always get it right. But I love my family, and I want my family to always know that they come first in my life above everything other than God. That my wife knows that she is the the closest number two of anyone in my life, and my kids they know that I'm always gonna put my wife first. So I thank you. Thank you for listening today. I hope that we are we are blessing you. I hope that we're making some sort of impact, that we're giving you some some maybe some thoughts to chew on or some examples to strive for. Um as Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ, that we are all trying to fall under the headship and leadership of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. Uh so I thank you. And hey, just remember to stay curious, my friends, and enjoy the journey.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

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