Episode 08 - Don McIntyre

In this episode of Oceans Unplugged, Lee Gallacher sits down with legendary adventurer and race organiser Don McIntyre founder of the Golden Globe Race, Ocean Globe Race, Mini Globe Race, and Real Ocean Rowing.

From traditional seamanship and celestial navigation to the psychological challenges of solo ocean racing, Don shares incredible insights into what drives sailors to take on some of the toughest adventures on Earth.

The conversation explores the history and evolution of the Golden Globe Race, the return of old-school navigation, life in the Southern Ocean, storm tactics, risk management, sponsorship pressures, and the human stories behind extreme endurance sailing.

They also discuss the future of live race coverage, the Mini Globe Race, and why adventure and authentic storytelling still matter in the modern world of high-tech ocean racing.

An honest and fascinating conversation for sailors, adventurers, and anyone inspired by exploration beyond the horizon.

A huge thank you to our core sponsor YB Tracking. None of this would be possible without your help and the service you provide to thousands of people every day.

Transcript

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Welcome to Ocean Dumpload. I'm Lee Gallager, formal professional sailor, mariner, harbour authority, patrol officer, coast guard officer, and lifeboat. In each episode I'll be sitting down one-to-one with the people who push beyond the horizon. Ocean racers, explorers, rowers, and the leaders behind the world's most demanding expeditions. We'll expand on the guest as we get into it. Oceans Unplugged is proudly supported by YB Tracking, the global leader in race and expedition tracking technology, helping bring the world's toughest adventures to life in real time. This is our story, Unfiltered and Indepth. So welcome back to episode uh eight. I think we're on now. And today I've got Don McIntyre with me from McIntyre Adventures. Good to see you. Good to see you, mate. Uh which is great to follow on because last episode we spoke with Gunnar Christiansen in his one-year entrance. And um, yeah, I mean he's planning to sail solo, non-stop, around the world on his boat for eight months. And you're the man that convinces these people to do it. How? Well, I suppose I'm just a facilitator in one way, but you know, as you probably know, you know, adventure's been a big plot of my life, and and for whatever reason, or the the primary reason was trying to you know put back to adventure, you know, adventure's given so much to me, and and so back 20 years ago I decided I would uh support people, you know, in different ways, and that eventually evolved into me actually organising the 2018 Golden Globe Race. And of course it's expanded since then into many other events. And it's interesting because the big issue, once you start to organise something and you're gonna get involved with websites and social media and all that, you're really out there in mainstream events, and and my priority there is you've got to if you're playing the game, you've got to play the game by the rules, and that's you know, really serious risk mitigation, uh, you know, constant sort of value judgments on what's the right thing and what's not, you know, to do. And uh eventually you end up with a bunch of sailors that are what I call responsible risk takers, undertaking an adventure which has got lots of different elements, which is the attraction, and uh they see it, you know, along the lines that hey, if I do this race and I follow all the rules, then it could be a little bit safer than it might have been if I wanted to do it by myself and didn't know where to start. So it's like a facilitator, and I get a lot of the sailors doing the different events that we are involved with saying, geez, you've just made it easy for me to achieve a lifelong ambition. So it's an interesting story how it happens. And McIntyre Adventures, you've got quite a few different events. Yeah. Um if I can remember them all. Golden Globe Race, Ocean Globe Race, uh uh Mini Globe Race, and now the ROR, which is real ocean rowing. So you might not know about my So you're just getting into that as well. Yeah. So we'll start with the Golden Globe Race, because there are people that follow and listen to the podcast and watch it on YouTube and that. What is the Golden Globe race in essence? In essence, first well, it's the first around the world yacht race. That's the first thing. It's the first solo around the world yacht race as well. And uh back in 1968 it was called the Sunday Times Golden Globe, okay? There were nine entrants and only one finisher, which was Sir Robin Ox Johnson in Sioux Haley. Um, and he's become a household name, really. I mean, what an amazing guy. So that's where it started, and and it never really achieved uh significance again. There were some other solo races that started, the BOC and uh all sorts of different things. Um but when it was coming to the 50th anniversary, that's when we decided to recreate it. So that was in 2018. And it it's really an epic, simply because we try to mimic as best we can in a in a modern context the similar hardships and the psychological trauma and the and the the grueling challenge of doing all these things in an old-fashioned way, back to basics, no technology, you know, they're using sextants, they're using paper charts, they use a walkers towing log. Uh, if they want to listen to music, it's a cassette tape play, you know, all of that sort of stuff. And they're in little old-fashioned boats, so they're heavy displacement, they can only be 32 to 36 feet long, uh, full keel boats with the with the rudder connected to the um trailing edge of the keel. Uh so it's it's challenging. And I put it down, people say, How would you sum it up? And I'd say it's ugly, it's grueling, it's psychologically demanding, and it's the most amazing game on the planet, you know. Yeah. And and I mean, as you said, it they are using sextants to navigate, and we were talking together recently about it, and I've got um Captain Ben McKinnis coming on, who's Portsmouth Harbour Master, he's coming on a little bit uh later. And we've also got Nigel Rennie, who is uh an instructor for Celestial Navigation. Yeah. Um do you think there's a bit of a resurgence uh and uh interest again in sort of traditional seamanship? Well, not only seamanship, but the celestial navigation side we've seen a huge difference in the last uh since we started the GGR, you know, whether it was we were part of that routine or whatever. But and I that reflects on the cost of sextants now. Funny story, the last sextant I bought was about three years ago. And someone was asking me the other day about sextants. Oh, go get one of those. I checked the price in the last three years. Secondhand sextants have doubled in price. Really? So everyone's looking for sextants, you know. So in terms of seamanship, I think that's relevant whether you've got a uh you know, carbon fiber mega yacht or whether you've got a timber classic yacht that that's the sailor. You know, seamanship is down to the sailor, but certainly um there's some beauties of the GGR which aren't available in other events, and it's the traditional it leads from the traditional navigation, like having to use lighthouses and having to count the sequence of the lighthouse and having to get it on a paper chart and having to look at the weather and get basic weather forecasting and sense what's going on and get involved with the weather rather than looking at grid files. And and I have now, you know, the the the people that are doing the GGR, that's a common theme, like and I said, Don, it's just a beautiful thing. I've gone back into the reality of being a sailor. So it's traditional sort of cultural seamanship rather than the safety seamanship that they're able to experience and they're really enjoying it, and that's part of the GGR challenge as well. So following on from that, I mean obviously in modern era we've got social media, everyone wants to follow events when they've disappeared over the horizon. So communication-wise, they're kind of restricted as well a little bit, or of is it literally back down to sort of BBC World Service, contacting ships as they pass on VHF and single sideband, or is there a little bit more? No, there is now. We're on the cusp of something different. But let me first of all just explain that under the rules of the notice of race, that's exactly right, the way you described it, you we have satellite phones on board for safety, right? But they can't use it to call family and friends. The only link they've got to the outside world is an HF single sideband radio or a VHF radio, talking to ships or so on, and they can do whatever they want on that radio. Uh they can talk to shore stations and so on. Um then uh when it comes to race safety, distress situation, we'll use satellite phones. We do a safety check-in with them every week, you know, uh and do a bit of an interview, like five minutes or something, and that goes up. Uh they can do tweets. We allow them to do a tweet on the satellite phone, okay, to send a short message every six hours if we want, and that gives us the coverage of the race and tells people what's going on. Okay. Uh they can't see any GPS, there's no GPS anywhere, it's all restricted, they can't see any of that. Um and then we have film drops, because in the first race in 1968, uh the entrance had some of them had radio, some of them didn't, right? Like Matessia, but not Metessia on Joshua, he had no radio, so he would go into various spots to pass over letters and go messages. Robin was the same. He had his radio working for part of the trip and he'd rendezvous. He rendezvoused in uh or he called into Melbourne without stopping into there to pass over messages, went to Dunedin and got read messages from the family, like a guy on a fishing boat reading a letter from the family because he wasn't allowed to take the letter. So uh we've had a lot of success in 2018 and 22 with telling the story of the race just by those tweets and bits and pieces, and our daily YB3 tracker update, you know, I do a daily update on what's going on and telling them, and people read the tweets and all that sort of stuff. So not a lot of vision per se, but it that stimulates the people's imagination. They're getting the story, they know what's going on with the fleet, you know, where they are from the followers' perspective. And so what they've got to do then is they've got to shut their eyes and they've got to think about what's going on and imagine what's happening, and and that's a big deal because nowadays it's all about screens. When you look at a screen, it goes into your eyes and straight to your brain, right? That's it. But if you get snippets and you get told a bit of the story, um you have to imagine it. And so when you're imagining it, you're getting it your whole body's involved, you know, you get emotionally connected. And we have another thing that a lot of our followers tell us is said we are in our coverage of the um GGR more alive than all the live events, you know. Now, in other words, because they're involved. Now, having said that, we're on the on the on the edge of a major transition now. Because I don't know whether you heard about it, but we're actually now going live on GGR. So that's a huge turnaround. Some people are passionately against it, but uh by my take, it's about 96% of our followers think, wow, this is gonna be fantastic. But it's cost a truckload, a lot of money, to do this with the technology, mainly because we're restricting access. So um without confusing your listeners, what it is effectively is a one-way window. So the entrant on the boat is able to push a button right to turn to power up the system, push another button to turn the camera on, and it's coming live to us in our office, right? And then we send that on to YouTube, right? They can't see anyone, they can't hear anyone, but they just carry on doing what they're doing, they can talk to the camera, and uh at that point we're putting up live, right? And so we're running a 24-hour live window on YouTube, and the seven or eight entrants that have got this system on their boats are running a time schedule. So you can look at the schedule the week before and say, I want to listen to Lee. Lee's on between nine and and eleven, and they can tune in and they can watch you live, whatever you're doing, and whatever you want to say to the camera, you know, you they'll watch you. And so that's a huge change, and it's it's been brought about for some various reasons. But hang on to your hats. It it'll uh uh so there'll be seven or eight entrants with that system, and the others will be exactly the same, isolated, all the rest of it. But even the ones with the window, nothing changes. Yeah. Right? They're still using sextant, paper charts, HF radios, all that sort of stuff. And so nothing changed other than the fact they know someone's looking at them for a few hours at a time, and then it cycles through. So that's a big change. I had heard about it, but I wasn't gonna say because I didn't know how public it was. Oh yeah, and it's on. Are you allowed to say which skippers are gonna have it? I need to. Yeah, yeah, no, we they're all there, but there's one that's that's on the edge. So um Gunner's on, right? Gunner's there, uh Anne Mara is there, our only woman entrant. Uh we've got Stephen, American entrant in the Cape George 36. Yeah. We've got Lewis, our 21-year-old, going around on uh on Newry. Uh we've got uh who have I forgotten? Oh, we've got Etienne, who just finished his qualifier with the please marry me on his sale. So his girlfriend's not gonna marry him. He just finished 40 days solo to to qualify for the race. Uh and we've got um we've got uh Par from uh Swiss Guy. So they're the seven, so it's an interesting mix, you know. And there might be one more coming on after as well. Right, that that's definitely good to hear. Yes, it's gonna be cool. Yeah, and I mean a lot of this can be done at a reasonable cost and and um technology, but you've got to have computers, you've got to have iPhones, you've got to have all this sort of stuff. We couldn't allow any of that. So this system, it's uh from our perspective, it's about a 300,000 euro investment on those three those seven sailors, right? And they're contributing as well. Each of the entrants that have got the system have to pay about uh they're paying about eight, eight, ten, ten grand plus the Starlink time, right? But it's completely clean for the ethos of the GGR. It's a it's a it's a window into their world. And you know, no one knows what's gonna happen. Well, I've got no idea, but I think it'll substantially increase our following. Yeah, it's definitely a one-way window. Yeah. They they can't see back out on the can't download anything, there's no computer, still no computers. This is the beauty, this is where the technology was, so you know about you know the YB, it's all about you know, we have to get new circuit boards made on some of this stuff, and it's back to basics and it's hard and it's like military grade bits and pieces. Three cameras, one in the cockpit, one in the um down below that's got a tracking lens, and then a mobile handheld like a GoPro that wifi is to the thing. So still no GPS, no communications, they can't download anything, they have no computers, but it'll be amazing. Yeah, like you were saying. I mean, the the YV3 for your race, we've actually changed the firmware so the guys cannot see the GPS position on it at all. They can still, as you said, do that message back and forth on the schedule. Yeah, and I I don't know if you know, I'm Ella Hibbert's DPA, uh designated person ashore. So she's trying to sail solo round the Arctic Circle. Yeah, yeah. She got down to St. Paul's Island, she's just back at St. Paul's now, aiming to go over the top of Russia to complete the circumnavigation. And I do exactly the same thing with her twice a day. I get her to literally send me a message, and it's all short code, literally how she is, what the weather conditions are, what's the sea state, and how the boat is. All short code. We've got it drained into it. Um and uh yeah, so that that works really well. And um last year on the arc, I I met one of the skippers there, um, and they were trying to work out which tracker to go for, the hardwired or or the portable. And I said, I'm an ex-UK Coast Guard officer. I said, Imagine you get into a lifeboat or life raft, sorry, you can't take the hardwired one with you, but you take that, you can still short message. And if I'm as a Coast Guard guy and you pull the EPUB, I know who it's registered to and I know where it is. Yeah, and unless you've done sort of your um documentation before, I don't know who's on board, I don't know what the situation is. Yeah, but at least with that you can. So it's a massive sort of bonus on board, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we as you know, we're a heavy user of YB. You know, we we insist on all our events, they've got to have two YB3s and a YB3i, you know. So and it's been a lifesaver for sure already. Just before we started filming, you were saying how long you've been using uh uh yellow brick as it was before and YB. Yeah, we I go right back to 82, 86 uh BOC challenge when we're using Argos beacons, you know, the big Argos ones. But yeah, we we uh moved straight to YB in uh 2017. You know, we made the decision to go with YB uh for the 2018 edition, and we you know we lost we lost uh four boats, I think, and five rigs, um, and they came in handy there. And the classic story for us was um in the last edition in 22 we lost two boats. One of them was Tapio Lethland on um on Asteria. But there was a kind of a strange crisis situation and it evolved that of course he got the YB3 but he lost his glasses and he was pressing wrong buttons, and we you know, so it's quite a story which is well documented on the G YouTube. But uh that whole thing, you know, being able to for for Tapio to be able to communicate with with um Kirsten coming up to him was amazing. And for us it was pretty cool because once we'd settled down the whole thing and the rendezvous was organized, we had flights going back to France. So we had the office crisis management running in France and we were in Cape Town, so we decided to get on the plane and we were actually controlling some aspects of the rescue coordination, you know, even though we were only working with MRCCs from the plane while we were flying back to Dingo, because we had communication and everything. Tapio in the raft with the YB3, us on the plane with with with uh a Wi-Fi link, uh, two guys in the office running the the main main game, and and uh just as we landed we got the message that Kirsten had met him. It was quite crazy. One of the stories that if if we really sort of go back on sort of communication off and boats in crisis, if we look at sort of um uh Tony Bullimore when he lost his keel in the Southern Ocean, yeah, yeah, no one actually knew how he was, how he survived, and obviously they didn't have that community. Just by turning his EPUB on and off, he was letting people know. So it's definitely very remote down there. So to be able to do that and assist with MRCCs at Maritime Rescue Coordination Centres, uh it the communication is definitely there, and that helps the rescue. Oh, absolutely. We we you know, for whatever reason, we've had a lot of experience with crisis management in the last 20, 30 years or 40 years even. Well, for the last 40 years, it's all for me personally, it's been about risk mitigation and and um you know sorting out the um you know the right gear and how to use it and stuff. And we've been involved from every level, from rescuing people to being an organizer of events where we need things. Personally, I've got the envious reputation of never having to be rescued, touch word in all my different adventures, but but I've seen it from all angles. We've advised governments on certain issues and and um yeah, without you know, I mean I'm not trying to be too commercial, but a YB3 is a pretty impressive kit if you're in the shit. You know, yeah. Uh I mean you s you talk about sort of um having that crisis management. The type of boats that are doing the Golden Globe race, as you say, they're traditional. Yeah. If we look at modern boats, so compared to like the Vendée Globe boats at the moment that are carbon fiber, foiling, we had Pip Hare on a few weeks back, and she was saying about sort of the speeds that they go outrun the weather systems. Yeah, totally. Uh, and obviously with the Golden Globe, the speeds that they go, they're not outrunning the weather systems, are they? You're sitting back, but that's fine. And and it was interesting to kind of talk to Gunnar because we started talking about um drug systems. Yeah. Um, and when I was on the pilot cutters for the port of Southampton, um, one of the Marine officers I worked with was a guy called uh Guy Willing, who went off and done the Jester challenge uh single-handed on a Francis 26, and he was a massive advocate about the Jordan series drug. Yeah. Um and Gunner was saying that there is actually reports that sometimes using these drugs is actually causing sort of a snap back, which is maybe why potentially some of the rigs were coming down. Here's my take on this, and uh it's amazing. I mean, you you you brought it up like a lot of people, it's like the Jordan series droves is the magic bullet. Two points to that. It's not, yeah, it's fantastic, Jordan Series droves is fantastic, but sometimes the marketing outweighs the reality in terms of yes, the Jordan Series Drogue is fantastic, but do you know how to use it correctly? Right? And people I see it so often, they buy Jordan Series Drog and say that's it, I'm right. I got the Jordan Series Drog, they haven't even tried it, they don't know what they're doing, so that's the power of their marketing, which is good. So believe me, this is not a criticism of the Jordan Series Drogue, it's good. Um, but it's a drogue, and all the drug is is creating resistance. Yeah, you know what I got on the back of my Swan 57? A couple of car tires and a rope? I've got one juicy big car tyre, wrap a bit of chain around it, yeah, and like a hundred meters or more of rope, yeah. Pretty cheap, and it'll do exactly the same thing, you know. Yeah, so that's a bit of a definition, and then you've got the argument about uh you know, are you a drogue man or are you going for speed and this, that, and the other? It's every situation different, every wave is different, every boat is different, they handle differently and all that sort of stuff. So, but the reality is, I mean, you should have some form of drogue because one day you might need to use it, um, and you should know how to use it and why you use it, you know. I've seen people that have had drugs and they've sort of hung them off the bow like a parachute anchor because they thought that's what they read and they got mixed mixed up, you know, and they didn't realise it. No, you put a parachute if you want to do that and face the back. We could talk for an hour on the whole heavy weather storm thing and drogues. In the BOC, when I went around, I had a beautiful 50-footer and uh sail around the world and and I had as I won't call him a mentor, but Philippe Jonto, who who a very famous French sailor back then, he and I were in the same race at the same time. It was my first ocean racing experience through the Southern Ocean. He was not a mentor, but he said, Don, don't slow down, keep it going, keep it going. And he was 100% right. And ever since then, my preferred um choice is to try and keep going, but be ready if you need a drogue. And the one thing I see, and I stated this publicly uh quite a few times, I see a lot of the GGR boats that are wallowing. The skippers are too scared to let their boat run. Now it's not a criticism for the skipper, everyone sails their boat differently and this, that, and the other, but the one thing you can't afford to do is. Go too slow, right? And I see it time and time again, and some of the boats have got into strife. And when I'm watching the video and say, look, the boat's wallowing, the boat is just screaming out to move, right? So again, no right or wrong, no skippers doing anything that's wrong, but there are so many different things about that. And if you're seriously sailing in oceans where you've got big seas, big swells, all that sort of stuff, then do your homework before you go. Read all the books, read all the examples, make your decisions, and certainly practice with some of the gear because it's quite scary when you set a serious drogue. That's like you know, taken off in the boat that's got a mooring line left on the wharf, you know. All of a sudden you're going to get a big wallop. And I've had friends that have nearly lost arms and hands and all sorts of things. So it's a big subject. Yeah, yeah, from that. Following on from the weather, one of the big questions I I've always been asked about my career is in big storms, how do you deal with it? And you don't, because you're not just opening a door and walking into heavy weather, it builds over a period of time, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And and again, you know, I've the scariest sailing I've ever had was one occasion in the GGR, and it was so scary. I I was hesitating uh not the GGR, the BOC challenge. I was hesitating actually um uh filming it. It was like disrespectful. I was really scared for about eight days. There was a bunch of us caught in a big storm and and um the the swells were massive, the swells were getting like twenty metres or more, and the seas were, you know, sort of between it hard to describe this, but imagine a twenty-meter swell, hills and valleys, yeah, and you've got these seas that are like four metres or so occasionally, and sometimes they get a bit different on the shape. Um so and you get to the point where you there's no more you can do because you've prepped everything, you've done it all, and then you just gotta sit tight, and that's the scary bit because you can't do anything, you're waiting for stuff to happen. Um and you know, generally uh yeah, I mean, how you know I'm trying to think of is there an answer for your question, but you're right, you know, you've got to have a good boat, you have faith in your boat. Um you should never leave shore uh if your boat's not capable of withstanding a serious storm to the level that you're expecting in the areas that you've got, you know, and that's been my cup of tea. I'm a compass and knife man rather than a Grand Prix round the boys man, you know, and I'm still here, touch wood. So we're just talking about sort of obviously you never really build into a storm. You kind of sorry, don't open a door on a storm, you build into it, so you kind of get used to it. For some of the sailors that uh are doing Golden Globe, Ocean Globe, do they fully understand and appreciate what Cape Horn is when they're kind of going into this and when they get there, because I remember going around it and the emotional connection just it hits you and the history behind it. Yeah. I I think you've hit it in one there, because of the history, right? And the reality is, because they all know and they're aware, but you know what I say to them? Forget about Cape Horn, the worst sea you're likely to see is in the start of the Indian Ocean. You know what I mean? Like, and it and it's proven itself often that the the reality is that Cape Horn sort of builds up to big storms and this, that, and the other, but you might squeak through. Yeah, but the transition just to the southeast of of the tip of South Africa sort of thing, yeah. It's just alive. It's that time, that time of the year, you've got three different weather patterns and this, that, and the other. So so you know, following on with your question about you just sort of work your way into it, yes. The by the time they sail through the Atlantic, they all of a sudden know their boat more than ever before, and themselves often. Some of the sailors have already circumnavigated and so on. And in fact, funny thing, everyone that's finished a GGR so far, and there's not many of them, already had pre-done a circumnavigation. Oh, okay. It was the interesting point. They've got real sea time. Okay. Um, and so then they're settled in it. But uh, in the OGR, out of 225 sailors, three of them had been in the Southern Ocean before. That's only three. Only three. Out of 220 odd sailors, there was only three that have ever been in the Southern Ocean before. And that holds true also to a lot of the GGR sailors. You know, I mean, some of them have got a lot of miles and stuff, but but you know, so it it's eyes wide open, you know. We loot we, you know, a lot of them will retire on the way south because it's settling in, and there's plenty of reasons not to carry on in the GGR, let alone make the start line. So anyway, once they get there and they get through and and get their first storms and so on, then they're settling down again as well. Um, and then Cape Horn builds up the emotion and the oh Cape Horn. It happened to me the first time I went around Cape Horn, it was like it's Cape Horn, you know. And so it it's like it's not the big boogeyman, but it's got a reputation. And and when you do finally get round, I was the same, you know, you finally get there and it's like holy dooley, you know, it's just amazing experience, and that's a big attraction, you know. You can sail around the world various ways. I mean, we just spent 15 of our Globe 580s, you know, 19 foot plywood boxes, we sailed them round the world via the trade wind route. But to do it in the Southern Ocean around the three great capes is really quite challenging and quite attractive, you know. So, and and you know, I I've seen it all, you know, the different reasons that the sailors will get into the GGR, and and some of them you can see, oh I don't know whether it's the right reason, but most of them have a real appreciation of what's going on and they're ready for it. And I think the 2018 fleet was different than the 2022, and the 2026 fleet is different again. And I really believe this time, I think we should see Touchwood, it's a lottery, we should see a lot more finishes. You know, I I think they're very well prepared, there's some real serious sailors there, and and everyone's got a better picture because they've seen 1968, they've seen 2018 and 22, and here we go, so they know what's coming, you know. So while while we talk about sort of the the history in 1968, does I'm gonna think of how to phrase this, does the ghost of Donald Crowhurst ever come into the story? And like the preparation or I mean it's a fact it was known as a voyage for madmen back then, and obviously Donald struggled with it. There's some backstories to the GGR that no one knows about, as a few people know, and I can tell you now the pressures that Donald Crowhurst went through were there in 2018. They played out some of it publicly, uh, and again in 2022, uh there was I'll be careful what I say here, but uh let's just say some entrants were psychologically challenged, seriously psychologically challenged. Um and some people were possibly there for the wrong reasons, and they realized it. And when that happens, all sorts of things happen, you know. So so that whole story, you know, and I kind of like the story of Donald Crowhurst, and um, you know, you it was part of the storyline, you know, back in the day, read all the books, all that sort of stuff, and and um uh as it goes, Donald Crowhurst and and his story is the feature boat in this edition. We we create a a coin every year and and every edition of the race, and it was Sue Haley in the first edition, it was Joshua um and Bernard Tessio in the second edition. In this edition we're focusing a bit on Donald Crowhurst to tell his story and and how it happened and not why it happened, but how it happened and and the reality of it. You know, it's not you know, it it reminds me very much of William Bly and Mutiny on the Bounty, you know, the back fifty years ago or something, it was oh he's a bad guy, you know, Bly was an idiot, you know, blah, blah, blah. But now people understand what it actually happened with all of his life, you know. And they look at it differently. And I really think that in the last uh you know, ten years or so, especially with the recreation of the GGR, more people are starting to understand what he went through and why it happened. And it's a very human thing, you know. Yeah, yeah. So it's a fascinating story. Yeah. I and again, we're we're not gonna mention any names. I was working with um a crew uh or a team that entered into a solo race and it was with stops. Um and again, for that chap, the the sort of as you say, that psychological build-up, the pressures from sponsors, friends, family, media, that all gets there. And that particular individual, he started uh first leg, uh, unfortunately had a little bit of a challenge before, uh, unfortunately he was dismastered en route to the start. Yeah, um, and uh that obviously got resolved and done leg one, uh, had uh some medical issues that we had to sort of, as you know, crisis manage and get that sorted. And he started leg two, and fortunately he came to his senses of realizing that he was pushing himself beyond what he was mentally capable for, uh, which was uh hand on heart, I still grateful for the the fact that he did turn. But those psychological sort of pressures are really there for solo sailors. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And uh there's another part to it as well, you know. We've got we've got 12 people paid up for 2030 GGR already. Already we opened the entry because there's so many people want to do 30 that um that we thought, okay, well, you know, we'll open it up so they've got a diff definite situation. We won't publicize them. Uh uh. We won't cheap as cover that one. Um we won't want to start again. That's that's the one. No, no, no, no. I've got to take some drugs, long story. Anyway, um I'll start that again. It's all right. Uh my medication's gonna go off poorly anyway. Anyway, but but that like it's four years before the start, and life changes over four years. And this is what I've seen before. People will pick up sponsors. I mean, boy, if you knew the story of Susie Goodall, crikey that's a whole pressure line there uh for the GGR then, because it because everything changes, you know, you you're in there for so long, and and also uh, you know, then it changes your race. As soon as you take on the responsibility of sponsors, you've got to, you know, cater for that and do certain things, and so it it it changes. And uh you know, even from our perspective, we still don't have any sponsors for the GGR um or you know, other events and stuff, and it gives us a dirt degree of freedom. You know, we can do whatever we want, we don't care, you know. Um but an entrance, the same. If they don't have sponsors or they've got sympathetic sponsors, no pressure, they can live with it, but you still got to do all the you know payback situation and so on. So um so those that are not aware of that and take the money and then get into it, it creates pressure for sure. Yeah. I uh after um because I did the BT Global Challenge in 2000, 2001. And after that, I I was aiming to do the sort of 2004-2008 circuit and try to get to the 2008 Vonday, and I had some fantastic uh sponsors behind me at the time I had Land Rover, Ernst Young, but it just I didn't reach that final threshold. Unfortunately, the the sponsors understood and it was there. But yeah, to add in those it's like spinning plates, you've got so many different people to sort of please, and um yeah, I can fully understand and appreciate um how that goes into it. But as you say, now you've got a little bit of freedom. Um, but uh are you still looking for sponsors? Because if I remember correctly, the the media return for was it the 2018 was about 185 million? Uh yeah, 2018 was uh about 185 US. Yeah. And we'd been saying give us give us you know a million dollars or whatever it is, and we'll give you about 220 million uh return. That was our estimate, you know, two years before the start of the race. And we actually did it without sponsors. And our total media budget on that first edition, we did it was 200,000 uh dollars. So we spent 200 grand over four years to promote the race and do all the things for that side of the budget, right? And we got you know 185 million US dollars return. In 2022, we got 165 million euro, right? Which is a bit different, you know, it was a little bit more. Uh and again with virtually you know very little sponsorship. This edition, uh, we've we've got the least amount of sponsorship we've ever had. Really? Yeah, ever. Only about half of what we got for the 2018 edition, right? So so anyway, but I I uh you know, we keep that's what we do. We're here to support adventure, and that's what we do, and we're proud of it, and um, we got great entrance, and we have a lot of volunteers too, you know. I gotta plug them because you know we wouldn't be able to do a lot of the stuff we are able to do without the volunteers. It's just fantastic. They get it, they understand. You know, people think that we're rolling in dough, we're not my second name's not Larry Ellison, and we put in, you know, we actually support what we do. We s and we um make sure we do what we say we're gonna do, and so far so good. But it what would happen is if we got the sponsors, we can do so much more in the outreach. You know, everything you do within the organization costs money. Like we're trying to get the schools program up and it's costing us money. We'd love to do some environmental stuff, but it costs us money to do that, and so we've got to focus on core organization and things like that. But boy, we're primed ready for a sponsor, and I must admit the conversation changes. It's so ironic that we've got the least amount this time for various reasons, but uh we're getting closer. We're always getting closer. So one day I think we'll have a sponsor. But I've got to say, we've got Lasab de Lona big supporters, yeah. And we've also got Department Vonde this time as well. You know, they've come in and kicked the can a little bit. Um so but we it's a cash-negative business, believe me. We'll at the end of this one. I'm so surprised because I mean the business of yacht racing um or business of sailing uh within sponsorship terms, sponsorship returns so much higher than football. I think it out outruns it by about eight to one uh on return of investment and and uh sponsorship. It it just astounds me. Well, you know, I mean I I you know maybe this live thing will change a few things. We'd partly the reason we're investing in that um is to just give it a play, see what happens, and um uh see if that draws anything. And we have people, I I've given up looking for sponsors now. I have some people looking for me, yeah. Some very good people, some of the some of the well, seriously good people looking for sponsors for us. Um and maybe we'll trigger something, but uh it's gonna be different this race with the live. Um so and AI is our friend now. We ban AI in the GGR, but there's one thing that AI can't touch, and that's real events. You know, you cannot you cannot create a j a golden globe race by AI. You might be able to do fake videos, fake pictures, and things like that, but it's it's not there. So and that's a a property that we want to promote, not and it's really super valuable, and so the investment for us is to inspire all the other people to get out and do adventure, you know. That's what we that's what we focus on, and and so far it's working, you know. We we do what we do, we like what we do, we're very lucky, you know. Um, you know, so you say like about the adventure angle, uh, and if we look across sailing, the difference. Do you think that that adventure potentially is starting to disappear from top-level uh performance Von Day Glo, a mocker 60s foiling? Or we are we becoming more systems management on board rather than that kind of adventurous, let's just go beyond the horizon and and go for it. Well, yeah, it's obvious. You know, the the beauty of sailing, there's something for everyone. You know, sail GP, it's like, you know, and America's cup, it's going, huh? Wow, you know. Whereas GGR, we go right back, it's not under the table, but it's back to where it really belongs as as a human adventure. And it's really funny because back in 2016, when we started pushing the GGR, we were dropping lines about it's all about the story, it's all about humans, it's it's it's you know, all these things. All the events now push those lines. I'm not saying they copied us, but let's just say we were there at the beginning. And here's another funny one. So you get a bloody, you get a uh an emoca, and I like emochas, I love the Vonday Globe, I love the Old Temps and stuff like that, it's insane. But you get a a an Emocha campaign, you know, 15 million or something for four years or whatever, and the boat gets out there. As soon as the boat crossed the line, you know what they want to know about? They want to know about the skipper, they want to know about the person, they don't care about the carbon fiber, this, that, and the other. Yeah, they got a result, you'd go up quick. But you know, the story is always there. And Pip was a classic case of that. Yeah not the last edition, that was kind of sad, but the edition before, you had the whole race there, all the money in the world, this that everyone wanted to know about Pip. Why? Yeah, because she was incredibly human and she was had a real story to tell. So the human story is the biggest part, and and so you know, uh you look at um anything super high-tech, like like Ultham's and a mocha and stuff like that, um, and it's sailing by numbers. Yeah. The human, all the human is there to do is to watch the computer and see the computer says I'm meant to do this, and then you press another button. Oh, the computer says I've got to pull that line in that far. So I pull it in that far. And the computer says I'm doing this, and that's how they drive, and so cheap as I didn't, you know, they they're sailing to the numbers, and the numbers are all computerized, it's all done on there, and it happens like that. And that's fantastic. I couldn't do it. Most people couldn't, and we're all blown away, so it's good fun. But the sailor that goes like that to work out the weather in the GGR, that's also attractive, you know, and it and it creates another thing. So one's no better than the other. They've both got a story to tell, but it's always the story. And uh, you know, the GGR is unique. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. We don't we're not changing anything with this window live, and we would never change anything with the GGR. Old-fashioned boats, you know, Jean-Luc who won the first rake, he calls them petit escargot, little snails. Little snails, yeah. And and it's fantastic, you know, we've got all sorts of sailors. You don't have to be a guru, you don't have to be a fitness freak. You you just got to get out there and have a go. And and um, yeah, GGR is very special. Yeah. Um before we wrap up, I just want to touch on the mini globe race, because we you mentioned it, the 5.8 metres. Yeah um they've just completed their circumnavigation. You said they're plywood, some of them built in their own backyard. Oh, they're all. Wow. The the the only way you can get a 580 is to build it, you know. But yeah, they're they're 5.8 metres, um, 19 foot, plywood epoxy, built from 300 euro plans. You know, you just you buy your plans, get in the shed, chop up your plywood, do your boat. You can get a kit, you know, you can buy a kit. And uh a couple of years later you've got this beautiful ocean-going 19-footer. And uh it's fun, you know. My boat was hull number one, okay, tracker. Raced it solo across the Atlantic, which was fantastic. We ran two transatlantic races in 2021, 2023, and then uh no, yeah, 23, and then in 24, another transatlantic which was the feeder for the Mini Globe race. We had 15 of them uh racing around the world 28,000 miles later, uh, after the transat, uh we got 11 of them to the finish line, and the only the the four that retired only retired because they ran out of money and they had to sail away from Australia, and it gets expensive to get your boat home. So effectively all the boats were on the water survived, and uh they had a hell of an adventure. It was just fantastic. It the vibe was unreal, and and uh now there's a lot of people looking at doing the mini globe race in 29. It it's on a four-year cycle as well, and we've got the Transatlantic 580 Transat is at the end of this year, that's every two years, so it's crazy. Yeah. Well, Don, thank you so so much for coming. I cannot wait to watch this year's Golden Globe race and obviously follow the Ocean Globe race and the mini globe race and definitely and and definitely hear more on the road race. I'm rowing me, rowing solo across the Atlantic in 2028. Watch this space. So it's another sextant rowing race this one. Thank you very much for your time.