Moore's Stop - All Things Moore
This new podcast features Mayor Mark Hamm and gives listeners a deeper dive into what's happening in the city of Moore, Oklahoma. It also features special guests who provide insight and unique views on various projects and events.
Moore's Stop - All Things Moore
City of Moore Mass Transit, ONE Transit Rail, and Old Town
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In this episode of Moore's Stop, City Manager Brooks Mitchell walks us through the details of why Moore leaders opted out of the upcoming ONE Transit rail system. And Assistant City Manager Deidre Ebrey joins us to talk about some exciting changes coming to Old Town.
Hey, welcome to this edition of More Stuff, All Things More. I'm Rob Morris. I'm here with Mayor Mark and City Manager Brooks Mitchell. Mark, I know we got some cool things to talk about, but I got a brag on uh Brooks first of all. You bet. Award-winning city manager. I mean, the the whole state has recognized the great job you're doing here. So just wanted to take a moment to say congratulations.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It's a it's a great honor. A lot of talented people in the industry, and to be recognized for my contributions is truly a great honor.
SPEAKER_02It is. And who was the organization?
SPEAKER_01The City Managers Association of Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah, that's great, and we are proud of you. And I tell you often I don't ever worry about our city's finances. They're in good hands. Well, thank you. Appreciate that. Appreciate all that you do for us. Thank you. Well, hey, hey, Rob and Brooks, today I wanted us to talk about something that people may or may not have been hearing about, but I think probably they have. And it's what was formerly called the RTA, the Regional Transit Authority, which has been renamed One, which I believe that stands for the three cities that are the founding uh entities of that, which is Oklahoma City, Norman, and Edmund. And so for those who don't know and that may be tuning in to listen, what can you tell us about RTA or One, and what does that plan for that entity look like and where does more fit into that?
SPEAKER_01Well, the original plan was for uh six cities, Oklahoma City, Norman Edmund, Moore, Midwest City, and Dell City to be part of this regional transit authority. And so what was going to happen was it was going to have uh essentially light rail service uh to all those cities uh and then ever go through go through downtown Oklahoma City. The thought being that this would lessen congestion on I-35 and I-40 and provide an alternate form of transportation. So that's that was that was the initial idea. The City of Moore was part of the original discussions, and as it as it went from a task force, it was a task force for uh two or three years. I mean, mayor, you were on it. Yes. And then uh and then it uh formed into an actual statutory authority. And so after a period of time, though, because of the uh because of the cost concerns and the way it was going to be funded, uh the city of Moore decided to withdraw from the from the RTA or won, as did Midwest City and Dell City.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um I was initially on it when I was a city council person, and I think our chairperson of the time was Cindy Rosenthal, the mayor of Norman, and Mick Cornette was the mayor of Oklahoma City. So it kind of gives people a timeline of how long that this has been in the works. Well, can you uh tell us just a little bit about what from your understanding, what would be the estimated capital costs of uh building this uh uh one transit system, which is what I understand includes uh bus as well as the the main thing is going to be uh light rail and rapid rail. What what is that cost gonna look like for something like that?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh the the numbers I've heard uh several hundred million dollars up to maybe almost two billion. So there are a lot of things that go into this. I mean, not just the uh the the rail cars and all that, but then the the various stops, and then how do you get people from from their stop uh to that last mile? So the stops that uh that I've seen that were planned at the time uh really uh didn't get people to their final destination or within easy walking distance of their final destination. So then they would have to uh uh jump on a bus, uh call a cab, get an Uber, do something like that. So that infrastructure part also has to be part of it too, and it's just it's just uh very complicated thing.
SPEAKER_02And you know, I can understand the convenience if there was a Thunder game and people and more wanted to get on the a light rail uh to ride to the Thunder game or to an OU football game. Uh you don't have very far to go once you step off of the train. But if you work in Oklahoma City, you could actually get off at the Santa Fe station where it will stop and then still have five, maybe ten miles to go until you got to your final destination wherever it is that you work. And like you indicated, you'd either have to Uber a cab or something. So some I think light rail makes sense for more densely populated communities, but Oklahoma City, Moore, Norman, Edmund, we're just so spread out, and we're really uh like our cars and our independence and and to be able to do whatever it is that we need to do throughout the day versus uh kind of being confined to uh a rail system. Well, tell me uh a little bit uh about light rail and uh how it was going to or how it is to be funded. I can assume that there's going to be federal monies that uh this authority would be going after, but what's its primary funding source?
SPEAKER_01Well, the the RTA match is is really sales tax. And so this was an issue that we raised uh from very early on when it was still uh uh when it was still a task force in the fact that uh cities in Oklahoma are reliant upon sales tax. We don't get uh Edvalorum tax for operations. And so with our capital needs and our operational needs, uh there's a there's a ceiling as far as how much the sales tax rate can be before people are gonna say no. And so there's you know great hesitation to want to cut into that ceiling uh with the with the sales tax increase for uh for light rail uh when there's other needs of the city that need to be addressed. And as far as you know, the city of Moore goes, uh you know the city council, I think, wisely made the decision that uh we have other infrastructure needs that we need to address before we before we sign on with the RTA.
SPEAKER_02So the way I understand it is that the uh the authority, the transit authority, has created districts throughout the metro, and those districts have um the ability to raise revenue via going to the public and asking in this instance for a sales tax. And they're they're going to do a one penny sales tax. Uh it's what's going to be presented to the voters. And and as I think about a one penny, you know, just as our city manager said, there are so many other things in our own city that we need. And I can I can understand uh light rail and I can see why maybe in uh uh 20 or 30 years there may be more of a demand for it. Uh but we need the money uh from our community to be invested back into our community. And if we're gonna ask for a penny, I would much rather that be put back into our streets, into our sewer and water and parks and all of those uh kind of issues that we have uh before we start uh making an even bigger investment in the the entire uh metro.
SPEAKER_03And seen in very recent history how the residents of Moore respond to that ask for a slight increase in the sales tax. You know, it's that's a hard ask. I mean, I think that's something that that you can't overstate.
SPEAKER_01It it is a hard ask. And and Mayor, if you'll remember when the uh trust authority was initially created, uh each each member city had uh a number of votes that was by a weighted average. Obviously, Oklahoma City had the most votes because they're the biggest city and and no objection to that, and then Norman and Edmund and and then more Midwest City and Dell City. And so uh initially the way it was set up, and I'm a lot of people may not realize this, but uh it the it's a taxing district. And so if you're part of the district, even if your individual city were to vote it down, if it passes as a whole in the district, then you're paying the tax. And you know, Mayor, uh I'm sure you remember the way it was set up initially was that if uh if Oklahoma City and either Edmund or Norman voted yes, then uh that's what was going to happen. And so you're the you're the person that made the motion that said, okay, it it's gotta be more than just any two cities. There's got to be a third city involved. So it could be it could be Oklahoma City, Norman, Edmund, but uh, or it could be Oklahoma City, Norman, and and more, or Midwest City or someone, there's gotta there's gotta be some representation to where it just can't be steamrolled by two cities. And you know, you made that motion, and to their credit, uh they passed that and uh made the weighted average a little more palatable to everybody, I think. However, still uh if it passes within the district, regardless of what any individual city does, they're gonna pay the extra tax.
SPEAKER_02And if we could look into the future and let's say that this does go to a vote, which it will, and let's say it passes, well then the city of Moore would be uh charging a one cent sales tax, which would bring our sales tax up to 9.75. Is that about right?
SPEAKER_01Uh nine nine point five.
SPEAKER_02Nine point five. And then we we don't really have anything to work with as far as additional infrastructure uh uh funding other than just GO bonds. So cities and again in Oklahoma is pretty unique, live and die by the sales tax. And the only way we can get money via Apple Worm taxes is when the voters approve that. Um so sales tax, we have to have it uh to pay our uh to pay our bills and do the day-to-day business. So so as I just thought about it and the rest of the council, it just didn't make sense for more Oklahoma uh to be a part of this at this time. Um but I'll just be curious to see how it progresses and uh what their campaign is. I I heard Mayor Holt speak about it in his state of the city, and it looks exciting, but it's just expensive and uh it just doesn't fit uh uh into more Oklahoma at this time. But if we have if anybody that's listening has questions, I would encourage them to either reach out to Brooks. You can just email him or give him a call. He may not be able to take your call at that moment, but he'll call you back. And the same with me uh as the mayor or any of any of our city council. We'll be happy to talk with any of you about this. Brooks, is there anything else that you'd like to say or wrap up on this?
SPEAKER_01Well, just uh I'm I'm still surprised that uh the RTA has always focused on just a sales tax as far as being a match, even though it was discussed that uh there maybe should be some component of Advalorum tax or or something else. Uh at the end of the day, they've just landed on sales tax. And as dependent as all cities are on their sales tax, I'm I'm just surprised that that's still the road they want to go down.
SPEAKER_02I would agree. And then Rob, I would just wrap up with this this last comment is that 20 years from now, the way technology uh is improving, the way we get from point A to point B is probably going to look different. I can see more autonomous vehicles uh on our interstate system, which would better control traffic. Uh and not that Rail is antiquated, but it's older. It seems like old technology. So what's new? What's out there? I look at the tunnels that they built in Vegas, an underground loop that uses electric vehicles to shuttle people around and does a great job for conventions and large events. Uh and what's nice about that is it's underground, and you're not having all of this infrastructure above ground, and you can kind of repurpose that stuff for things that are a little bit more uh uh nice to look at.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think you're right. I I think there there are interesting technologies on the horizon that can aid, and I thought the last mile issue is the thing that always gets me about rail in Oklahoma City, Norman Edmund, and then the east-west corridor, you know, El Reno, Yukon, uh Mustang over to Midwest City, Dell City. Um it works in that you know that line, but like you say, you can get off at at the station right next to the new arena, and it's great if you're going to a Thunder Game. But if you happen to work over out by St. Anthony's, for example, or over at the state capitol, you got to get that last mile. And even here, if we had a stop in Moore, um, it would probably be very cool to have it right up here on Main Street. But now, you know, if you live out on the southwest part of the city, out by Southmore, you gotta get from here to there. You gotta now I'm guessing you would have parking here that you know you could. Well, we don't know. But I would think I was gonna say, where would that parking be? Right. Uh you've still got a problem with parking space if you're gonna drive in and then commute. But uh I'll end it with this last thing for me. Um, I spent a lot of time in Houston over the last four years um making regular trips down there. They have a really robust bust light rail system, and it's everywhere you see. But it seems, I mean, Houston's a completely different animal than us. And every time we sit and watch the trains go by, I mean, they're filled with people. So in the right circumstances, light rail works. Um, you know, at this point in time, I think the problems that you guys have raised, the questions you've raised, make a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_02And and the only thing I would say, and Brooks, feel free to chime in before we go to light rail, maybe it we need to look at expanding our bus system. Uh and and maybe it's a bus uh transportation system that could look more like a train, but it operates on roads versus having uh to be confined to tracks. You know, roads give you more flexibility and put in more stops and where you go. And I'm not even necessarily just talking about embark, but maybe a bus that stops it more, you get on and it doesn't stop again until it gets up into Oklahoma City versus you know 20 stops. And it might be a better way to shuttle to move people around. But we'll just see what the future holds. I just don't think for more Oklahoma uh RTA light rail is going to be in the foreseeable future.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and mayor, I agree. And the the bus system uh provides more flexibility and can run more frequently because all the discussion about the early years of the right of the light rail, if if it were to come to fruition, are uh you know, you'd have you'd have one or two uh trains a day. Uh so that doesn't offer much flexibility. Uh it's not going to be there's gonna be a train every hour on the hour, every 30 minutes. It's one or two a day for the first few years and until they really get it up and going. So the the convenience uh factor really comes into play there.
SPEAKER_02It does. Well, Rob, I think that's uh all the time we have for this segment of our show today. And Brooks, I want to thank you so much for again coming in and talking to us about all of the things that are happening in Moore, Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_03And we'll be right back with Deidre Ibridg to talk about some very cool things going on in Old Town. That's right. We'll see y'all on a few. Learn everything you ever wanted to know about the City of Moore's Code Enforcement Ordinances at the Code Enforcement Academy coming up at 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, September 9th in the City Hall Council Chambers. This interactive, citizen-focused training is free to the public. Whether you're a local business owner, HOA member, or you're just curious, here's your chance to join the conversation and learn how to navigate Moore's residential standards. If you have questions, just call 405-793-5052. Welcome back. Now, like a lot of folks, I love hanging out in Old Town. I mean, I'm down here quite a bit. There are cool things to do. Uh, cooler things are coming, though. They're, you know, a little bird told me there's all sorts of fun things bubbling beneath the surface in Old Town. Mayor Mark, what do you hear?
SPEAKER_02Well, I hear the same thing. And so when you hear those kinds of rumors, there's only one person you can go to to get the facts. And so we've invited our assistant city manager, Deidre Ebri, to come in and talk with us a little bit about Old Town. And we've talked about it before. We have even uh got a grant. Um uh a consultant came in and met with the businesses and residents of Old Town, and we're just trying to get ideas and input, what people are wanting and what they're expecting. Uh and from that, uh Deedra, I'm gonna pass it off to you and just talk about some of the or one of the things that we're working on, or you're you and your staff are working on.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, thank you, Mayor. There are several ideas that are being bounced around, and again, a lot of these are what we call low-hanging fruit. They are just common sense ideas, low cost, sometimes no cost, actually, ideas on how to re-energize a particular area in town. And for us, it's the old town area that we're wanting to re-energize and um again draw visitors, shoppers to the area, specifically to assist the retail businesses that are here, but also the service businesses that are here, and hopefully gain more customers for them. One element that we have explored in the past and is coming to fruition, you mentioned uh here in the next few months, would be a mural program. A lot of people know of Plaza Walls in Oklahoma City, and they started out very small, which is exactly how we are starting, very small, and they've grown Plaza Walls to a really incredible place to visit, not just for the art, but also then the shops that are in and around the art area, and that's exactly what we want to see happen. So we are modeling our Moore Art Walls program after the Plaza Walls program, and we have several of the volunteers that have worked on that project helping us with ours. So, again, with the assistance from the city of Moore, we are looking at a $25,000 expenditure that we will divide up amongst artists who will apply. We will hire those artists and we hope to paint anywhere from 10 to sorry, from eight to ten murals in different places around the old town.
SPEAKER_02That would be a different artist for each mural, so not just one person.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Right. And again, it's so interesting. You can even take a fence, like there's a corrugated metal fence that kind of runs behind one of the strip centers, and that's a perfect place to apply murals and art to the fence. Well, you can divide the fence up and you can have maybe two to three artists work on one fence. So one section of fence is one artist, and then it meets the next panel, and that's somebody else. So again, it's just it's a very great opportunity to revive some of these spaces and places in Old Town that we've all looked at for a really long time. These are privately owned businesses and uh privately owned real estate, and so we have to get permission from them. We'll be signing agreements with them. They are very much in favor of it because they also want to see their tenants do well and see new visitors in the in the downtown Old Town area.
SPEAKER_02And this is when you we say Old Town, we're talking right in the area of Main Street and Broadway and Broadway. Uh-huh. That's right. A couple of blocks.
SPEAKER_00Just a few blocks, right. There's actually gates that we have that are kind of the white picket look with the rock, and it it details Old Town on there. That's those are the parameters. So it doesn't quite go to Fourth Street, it doesn't quite go to Fifth Street. Um, kind of the railroad tracks almost to the uh interstate access road is kind of our general area that we're working with. But we've walked around for several months and identified a lot of walls and fences and things that could, again, support art and murals.
SPEAKER_02And once the artists are selected, do we kind of give them an idea or do they have free reign to be the an artist and create what they want?
SPEAKER_00Well, both. Great question. Both things can be true. They do have free reign, and we are giving them some direction. Our only direction is that we are asking that the murals be interactive. And you can do a really cool search on um whatever browser you use, but just you know, interactive murals, interactive art, and see a lot of ways in which people can interact with a wall, a painted wall.
SPEAKER_02I'm thinking often the butterfly wings when somebody stands behind it.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's a perfect example of interactive art. And those are the examples that we're giving these artists. Now they can, again, creative freedom and go out and decide how people can interact with their wall. And maybe it's not a physical interaction, maybe it's a visual interaction or something. But they know what we're after. And what we're after is we want people to come over and over and over again to take pictures in front of those walls or to interact with those walls so that we can tag the businesses that are in those buildings, tag the things that are in the downtown old town area, and again drive traffic, specifically foot traffic and shoppers to the old town area.
SPEAKER_02And so residents of Moore can begin to see this in two or three years. So it's not two or three years away. It's going to be really quick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you're being Yes, I was making a joke.
SPEAKER_00Okay, got it. That was funny. So it will start this next month, actually. So October the 27th is when we will have our artists in town, and they will paint from the 27th through the 31st. And we this will all be on our website. And obviously, as it becomes more real, we will put out social media posts about it. But we do want people to come down and watch the process. We want people to come down and watch these artists and see what it takes to take an entire wall. We will prime the wall for them and then they will just go with whatever vision they have in their mind for their particular wall. The 31st, October the 31st, which is a big day for us and more. It is our red ribbon day. It is also Halloween and it is haunt Old Town. So we have a lot of events in Old Town anyway. So that will be the day that we finish the artwork. All of the artists will have completed their artwork. A lot of them wait until that day to maybe sign their artwork. And so we want to draw a big crowd of that. So really that's exhibition day, and we want people to be out walking around meeting the artists.
SPEAKER_03Is the location of this first wall a secret? Are you guys ready to talk about that yet?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. It is not a secret, but there's more than one wall. So there are again eight to ten walls that we've identified already, and we've already been in talks with the property owners, and they are all in agreement to sign an agreement that we've developed. It's on our website. If anybody's interested in in if you happen to have a business in old town or a building in old town and you think, hey, I'd love to have a mural on that wall, you can hop on our website and see what the agreement says for the property owners. And then we will be picking the artists and placing them with their walls. So once those placements are done, we'll do a big publicity splash about that with the address of the wall, and then also the artist that we've chosen to paint that wall. And the artist will be paid, and again, that's from the donation from the city, from the city of Moore, will go to directly to the artist.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think it will be money well spent and it's going to make some uh significant uh changes at a very minimal cost in Old Town. And it's really, and it's my hope that it's just the beginning of the things that people are going to see the city doing in Old Town as it uh is going to uh grow and look nicer and just all of the amenities, things that the city has control over, and I believe that that will help drive uh pedestrian traffic and other business retail businesses to Old Town. So we are working. Uh and as my friend Leon Brining always says, the the wheels of government turn slow, and and they do, but they do turn. And so I'm excited about this uh mural project that's coming, and then on uh October 31st it will be completed, and there will be eight to ten different murals that people can walk around and look at.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Rob, do you have anything to or just to be clear, it's one mural that will be completed on the 31st.
SPEAKER_00Oh they're all eight to ten.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay, yeah, I missed that. That's that's wow.
SPEAKER_00Right, and then um and that's our first phase, and then we hope that every year we will add another eight to ten, depending on again how much money we're able to devote to it. Uh each mural we suspect will stay up around three years, and then we'll go back around and paint over after maybe the third year. Uh but if we can do eight to ten for the first three years, then we should have around 30 murals in Old Town by the time we go back around and start over and prime those that were this year.
SPEAKER_03What a great addition to the 31st, and especially haunt Old Town. Yeah. The crowds are already down. I can just see in my mind already them going and interacting with those murals. So I think it's a fantastic idea.
SPEAKER_02I agree. Well, Deidre, thank you so much for coming back in and spending a few minutes with us to talk about a lot of great things that are happening in Old Town, uh, Moore, Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_03Thanks also, Deidre. I want to give my thanks for your being here. Excited about the mural program. We're gonna be right back after this with your question of the month.
SPEAKER_02We'll see you in just a couple of minutes.
SPEAKER_03It's September, and that means it's time again for the City of Moore's Fall Marketplace. You'll find more than 50 vendors selling crafts, quilts, and yard art, along with other handmade items, food, farm produce, and direct sale products. The magic unfolds at the Central Park Multipurpose Pavilion on Saturday, September 26th from 9 a.m. until 3 p.m. Koit's Food Truck will be on hand, and if it's caffeine you crave, the Okie Bean Coffee Truck will also be on site. There's still time for more vendors. Just contact Casey Dean for more information by email at kdean at cityofmoor.com or call 405-793-5090. Welcome back. Hey Mayor Mark, um, here's the question that has been raised for me. I'm going to give you the question to talk about it. We've been talking a lot about Old Town today with Deedra and a lot of really cool things that are coming. This person's wondering, are there any buildings in existence still in Old Town that have a kind of a unique history that we don't really know about, that most people don't know about?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Rob, it is, and it's a great question. I'm glad somebody asked it. And there is. And as I drive up and down Old Town, as I've been doing all of my life, I'll look at some of our older buildings, and there's one that has always stood out to me. And it is uh a look, it's on the east side of Broadway, south of City Hall, and it's a two-story building. It's long and it's narrow. And as I've talked with people that have lived here uh since the 40s, um, they told me that that used to be a theater. And so I uh went over Wait, you're talking about the A V building, that yes, that kind of yellow brick A V building? Well, it's that business that that there's uh uh a strip mall there, and in the middle of that there is a red brick building. It is currently an audiovisual uh business. Um and I went over there and connected with the person that owns it and just wanted to uh find out a little bit more about the history. And so he uh was gracious enough to meet me and show me, and as you go in there, you can see that it used to be a theater, and it was built in 1946. He has the uh uh photograph of it, so it looked a little bit different from the uh outside. It had more of the theater where you had the ticket booth kind of sunken into the building, and then on either side there would be placards of coming attractions or what was showing. Uh and in the building, you could go to the second floor, which was just a small space, but it was the projector room. And on the projector room, again, this is 1946, those projectors were incredibly hot. So there is still the door, which is called a fire door. It's a steel door that they would shut when that projector was running and they'd leave for the evening in the event that there was a fire that try to keep it contained. Uh I've looked at some of the posters of the movie posters from a picture that was in a publication, uh, but I don't have that with me or I'd share them with you. But we before the Moore Warren Theater, and then when I was a kid, I went to the theater. It was called the Movies and Moor, one and two, which is uh over by um the sporting goods store and the uh uh uh business in the the old shopping center. I forget what that's that shopping center is called, but that's where the movies used to be. We had two screens. I saw Billy Jack movies there and uh Bingy movies and the Planet of the Eight movies, all of that kind of stuff. And then uh but before that it was 1946, it was when the City More got its first movie theater, and it had air conditioning. I'm doing air quotes right now, but it was basically just a big attic fan. And there were two large windows in the front and in the back, and they would turn that fan on that would pull air through there to create a breeze. But I I've talked with folks that went to that theater when they were kids growing up, and uh I just never I never knew that. I'd always heard that, but I never knew, and had the opportunity to go inside and look at it, and it's uh it was a theater.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they did they bricked the front of that to kind of take away that classic theater entrance that you're talking about with the ticket booth and the the kind of the angled walls with the posters. Yeah, because I had no idea until you mentioned that that that was a theater. You'd never know it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, you you would not. Um, and that the gentleman that owns it now uh has a picture when it was stood there by itself, and just to the south of that, there was a home that stood there. So over the years they added additional businesses to the either side of it. But that has probably been all been there since the 50s. Wow. Uh so there's history all around us. You just need to know where to look. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Well, thanks so much for that answer. I know how much you love history and I love it too. Um, it's been another great episode, I think, with Brooks and Deedre filling us in on some great information. Uh, I want to thank everybody for joining us and look forward to seeing you next month. We'll see ya. Thanks, everybody.