The Art of Intentional Leadership Interview with Corinne Gavlinski

What if becoming a better leader has less to do with working harder and more to do with leading with intention?

In this inspiring episode of Success to Soul, Dr. Tanya Prewitt-White sits down with executive coach and trusted thought partner Corinne Gavlinski to explore what it truly means to lead with purpose, authenticity, and self-awareness. Together, they discuss the hidden challenges facing today's executives, including burnout, decision fatigue, identity, grief, and the pressure of constantly performing at a high level.

Corinne shares her remarkable journey from corporate executive to executive coach, revealing how personal loss, career transitions, and life's unexpected challenges transformed her definition of success. She offers practical wisdom on setting healthy boundaries, embracing intentional leadership, staying curious, making better decisions, and helping others grow without losing yourself in the process.

Whether you're leading an organization, building a business, or navigating a major life transition, this conversation will challenge you to rethink what success really means and inspire you to lead with greater purpose, compassion, and courage.

Because true leadership isn't measured by your title.

It's measured by the lives you impact along the way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

If you have a capital on paper, but it's adopted on the inside. If it even hasn't brought you the happiness I thought you expected, if there's a quiet little voice that keeps asking, is this really all there is? Then this podcast is for you. Here's your host, executive coach, and guide for high achieving women, Dr. Tanya Pruitt White.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Hi everyone, welcome to Success to Soul. I'm your host, Dr. Tanya, and if you're new here, welcome to our community. This is the podcast where we know success without soul is not success at all. And I'm super excited to invite our guest, Corinne Gavlinsky, an executive coach and private thought partner who works with senior executives navigating high-stakes decisions and complex politics. When something politically sensitive is developing and the cost of mishandling it is real, this is usually when people call Corinne. Oh my goodness. Corinne, we're so excited to have you here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

I'm delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Oh, great. So before we begin, can you tell us a little bit about where your professional journey began and how you became an executive coach?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, I started my career in financial services actually. And had the good fortune to work for a few very large publicly traded companies, banks. I was in credit card management, and those banks had very well-established leadership development programs at the time. And so I was lucky. I was brought up in a world where you were tested year over year. You were given increasingly complex leadership opportunities. And that really allowed me to see where I was good, where I wasn't good, what I liked, what I didn't like, and start to develop a real pattern of success for myself. And so I did that for many years and got my master's while I was there. And after about maybe 13 or 14 years, I made an abrupt right-hand turn into healthcare. And this is not for the faint of heart. Because I started at the bottom again. So after having achieved the title of vice president in financial services, I went all the way back down to being just a manager in healthcare. And I really had to learn the business. And so I started that journey back up the progressive leadership rungs, if you will, of the latter and did it. Led a series of sales and account management teams over many different startups and larger companies. And then again, about 15 years after that, made an abrupt right-hand turn into executive coaching and advisory, which is where I am now. So I've had my business about it's been about five or six years now already. And I haven't looked back once.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Amazing. Okay, I love this. So you are someone who has climbed the mountain, turned back around, and then started over again.

unknown 3:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Well, you're taking with you the things from before twice. For sure. Can you tell us a little bit about what you learned about yourself or business or what you had to grieve in letting some of those things go? The identity of success and starting over.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah. You know, I think I was raised to always take a bet on myself. I remember my parents being very affirming and had some trust in my ability to do things if I put my mind to it. I also have a little bit of a sassy streak that if somebody tells me I can't do something, oh, I'm gonna show them. Funny story, I remember my great aunt Dorothy telling me I would smoke someday and that I shouldn't be, I was kind of needling her about her smoking. And I couldn't have been more than 13 at the time. And I remember thinking, oh yeah, watch me. I've to this day never once touched a cigarette to my lips.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

It was just this little sassy streak in me that was like, oh yeah. So you. Yeah. So I think it's those things combined that made me able to take a big leap and bet on a big pivot in both cases of my career. But it also took a lot of resilience, it took some determination to get back to where I was and go farther. It took, yes, grieving over who I was and leaving that identity behind, and that's hard. You know, I've lost jobs twice, that's a big ego blow, and you have to recover from that and realize you are not your job title. And for someone who is extremely high achieving, that is a very difficult thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah, that you are not your title. Yeah, and then when you start all over, from my own experience, you go from lack of better term, being somebody to everyone being like, Who are you? Like, never heard your name before.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Like you have to prove yourself all over again. And that's hard and informative, you know. If I can say anything about this experience and what I learned, is it does make you check your ego a bit. And for me, that was healthy. I probably needed that. And the fact that I had to do that a couple of times was valuable to me becoming the leader that I ultimately became in my career life and informs who I am now.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, I feel what's coming up for me is this idea that the universe will give you the same lesson until you've gotten it, right? And so I see that in different ways in my own life for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Yeah. And, you know, there's also that adage that you teach that which you must most need to learn. And I think that applies to me too. You know, today I work with very senior executives who struggle with high achievement sometimes, which sounds like a strange thing to say, but also almost entirely define themselves by who they are at work. And so today I'm working with those leaders to help them realize the pieces and parts of them that are not connected to their job title and chart a path for themselves beyond just that title. And I think I'm called to do that in some respects because I too need to learn that. So I learn from my clients right alongside them sometimes. And sometimes I'll start laughing in the middle of a conversation because what we're talking about applies to me. And the things I'm saying, I say, I really need to take my own advice here.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, you're like, I understand this very well.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

So what do you find with working with high-achieving executives? What are some of the things that you perceive them to have to let go in their journey?

SPEAKER_02 7:24

You know, the executives that I work with over these years have really shown to me some very prevalent themes. And those themes are maybe surprising to some. I don't know. I find that these executives are experiencing what I call executive fatigue. They experience decision anxiety, they experience loneliness. And what they need to let go of is two things. One, that they have to do everything themselves, that they should be able to figure this out themselves, because after all, they're the CEO or the CEO, or excuse me, or the C O O or CMO, or it doesn't matter what C level. There's a lot of I should be able to figure this out myself. So they need to let go of that, I think. And the second thing they need to let go of is this notion of I am who I am because everything I am got me to where I am. And I struggled with that. I believed firmly that the behaviors that I exhibited got me the success that I had. And that's not not true, but it also fails to recognize some potential blind spots. And so clients that work with me need to have a little bit of self-awareness that there might be blind spots. They're probably denying them, that's okay, but they have to at least recognize that they might be there, and then we can get to work.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah. Wow, this feels powerful. It makes me think about what I'm hearing you say, I believe, is that what got these executives or CEOs, CEOs to where they are now is not working for them any longer. They know it somewhere, but letting go like, oh, that they need to be.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Not in totality, but in some respects. And sometimes that's purely personal. You know, all that success and achievement that they've had, they're now experiencing this moment of, huh? Is this actually what I wanted? Yeah. Where do I go from here? Or how am I gonna translate this for the next five or ten years? Do I want to keep doing this? So there's this almost thematic sense of is this really what I signed up for? Which is so interesting. And I myself experienced a little bit of that. Like I was very clear what I was headed towards, and then I got there and I was like, this isn't exactly what I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

Uh-huh.

unknown 10:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

And that's very disorienting for a high-achieving executive officer of a company who has worked their whole life to get there, and then suddenly realize, I'm not sure this is all that I thought it was gonna be. And then they start to wonder: is the game different now, or am I different in the game? And that causes a lot of anxiety. Yeah. Rightly so.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Wow. And I can imagine then when they share this experience with you, that not only are you a thought partner, but they trust you in ways that they might not trust other people in their lives.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

You know, like you're carrying that with them as they move forward.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah, I think, you know, I'm really clear that I am not the right thought partner for everyone. I say that all the time. I am a unique and distinct personality. I tend to be extremely direct, I can be intense, I am a little bit sassy, I am sometimes sarcastic. I will definitely let a swear word drop nine times out of ten. And so if that's not the right thing for you, I completely respect that and will tell prospective clients that. And, you know, they're used to people telling them yes all day long. And I'm the person that tells them, I don't know about that. Are you sure? And so I might be one of the only truth tellers in their corporate life. Yes. And that's what makes having a thought partner very powerful and I think a competitive advantage. But what works for clients is when you have a good match of that intensity. And so doing some work as if anyone is contemplating getting a coach or a thought partner in your community, finding someone who directly matches that is very, very important. And you should seek out multiple people and talk with them before you ever commit to working with someone. And don't be afraid to change.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I know that we talked about this previously that a lot of your work is with male executives, and or I shared most of my clients are women. And what have you learned about men's experience of pressure or fear or emotional isolation? And what is it that you feel as a woman who is coaching them bring?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah. You know, I think because I am so direct and can be somewhat sarcastic sometimes, I think that that is a, in some respects, a breath of fresh air to them. Again, they're used to people telling them what they want to hear or delivering, you know, news that is usually in line with what their agenda is. And I'm a little bit contrary sometimes. And so I think that that works for them. I also think that I don't know. I, you know, women are the differences between the two, and I do have some female clients, but the difference is that I think women are more aware of, and they will use different words than men do. And so men, for example, will say to someone else, you know, you should talk with Corinne because she helped me with this situation. Women will say, you should absolutely talk to Corinne. I trust her, she's someone that you can tell anything to, and you're gonna be able to work through it together. Those are slightly, you know, subtly different messages. And what men tend to communicate is that I had this thing that I wasn't sure how to solve. And there were few people that I was able to talk to about it, and Corinne, as my thinking partner, was able to provide that for me in a closed door setting. And so I think men use different words to communicate what they need, but the underlying themes and issues tend to be very similar.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, yeah. Leading is very similar, no matter who was doing the leading and where we're leading for sure. In your own executive career, when you were having to make these decisions, if you're gonna stay, or even maybe letting people go, or whatever decisions you had to make, how did you balance this realization of like fulfillment and achievement is important? And then there's something like that I need for myself as I'm moving forward. I'm thinking about when leaders are balancing so much for everyone around them and then neglecting their own needs. What was your experience like that in your executive career?

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Well, I'm gonna be brutally honest, I failed. Okay. I was a terrible leader for what I think is a good chunk of my career. And I can admit it now, I wouldn't have admitted it probably five or ten years ago. Well, 10 years ago. I was very focused on my own achievement, very focused on my own accolades and where I was headed. I didn't have appreciation that by lifting others, my own success would be equally realized. And so I don't, frankly, I wish that I had someone to challenge me, to give me some different perspective. It never even occurred to me to have a thinking partner or a coach as I became an executive. Never even occurred to me. Was not offered to me, did not occur to me, which what a loss, what a lost opportunity. I think it was much later in my career that I started to focus on others instead of self. And that came by way of some very personal things that happened that changed my perspective. And what a shame that that had to happen to really make me a better leader. But nonetheless, I think I did become a better leader. And I started to focus in on lifting others, helping others succeed. Where could I add to others' capabilities? How could I teach more of what I knew to those that needed that, those teachings? It took a very long time, and I think I'm actually doing a better job of it now than I ever did in my corporate career, which is kind of sad, but brutally honest.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

But honest. And that is probably what allows you or makes the space for you to reach people where they're at and what they need, knowing that you need it at the time. Can you talk? It makes me think about intentionality then, right? And I know that you you have a phrase in your website around intentional action. And can you tell us a little bit about this intentionality with making decisions and living your life and how you help the people you serve doing that as well?

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Yeah. I think most leaders are very well-intentioned. It's when the pace and intensity of work, the constant demand for decisions, especially with incomplete information, it's when those factors start to crowd in on an on any leader that some of their lesser tendencies start to come out, right? So behaviors that are otherwise well-managed and somewhat controlled become uncontrolled. So simple things start to fall by the wayside. Those might be quite literally as simple as dismissing one-on-ones or never even asking people where they want to go in their careers, people that work for you. Being short with someone who maybe needs a little extra, not recognizing the people take in information differently than you do. This is absolutely common around among many executives, which is that they think very quickly, they act very quickly, and they're already processing miles ahead of some people. That's hard when you have people on your team who are very capable, very intelligent, but need a lot more processing time. So that friction that occurs is heightened by a leader's need to withstand that pressure intensity and constant decision making. So when I talk about intentional action, what I mean is let's agree on the values that you have. Let's agree on the things that you as a leader believe are important in terms of leading and hold true to those, even in times of great stress. So, how can you do that? Where do you do that? Are you doing that? And how do you get back to it if you recognize you've slipped? So that's what I mean when I talk about intentional action.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. Okay, tell me if this resonates for a moment, because sometimes it makes me think about for high achievers who move very quickly, this resonates, is the power of just a brief pause or a slowing down. And you know, I actually just had a client earlier this morning who's like, look, I've never slowed down. It's like, oh, there can be so much gained from just a pause. Yeah, the pause button. And so, what does that look like in practice for you working with an executive to encourage them to take this pause to self-reflect? A lot of times what I hear is, oh, I don't have time to do that. There's so much to do. I don't have time to take that pause. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

One of my clients, we came up with a system. This is so corny, but it worked. We came up with a system where before a very influential meeting that he might be going into, he would put something in his pocket and he would feel it throughout the meeting. And it was a reminder for him to take a pause. It was a reminder for him to be curious, just one more sentence. And it worked. And so it doesn't matter the thing. The thing is irrelevant. It's whatever someone can do. You know, it's no different than if you're trying to drink more water or if you're trying to lose five pounds or whatever the thing might be, right? You need to create some cue that allows you to remember to do it. So it is often that I say, can you stay curious one sentence longer? So before you launch into that's not right, I think we need to do this instead, or did you think about that that right? Because you're already miles ahead of the person that's giving you a readout. Ask one more question. That's it. And if you can ask one more question, can you ask two more questions? You know, so we play with that a little bit. Sometimes I'll challenge them. How do you normally handle this? So give me some context, a story. Tell me how you handled it or what you would normally do. And then I ask them to think about what's the exact opposite of that. And sometimes there's dead silence when I ask that because they don't know. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

And then we explore that some, and then we see if there's Any small piece or part of that that we can introduce into their common practice. Now, talk about common practice. This is not an instantaneous fix. No. You know that. This takes lots of practice. And so we also exercise the muscle of the conversation. I screwed up. I kind of jumped on you there. I should ask another question. I'm sorry. Can we do it again? That's a very powerful thing that a leader can say that often does not pop to mind to say. And I can't say that I did it more than a handful of times myself.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah. It makes me think about Krin. Sometimes with clients of mine, I'll actually have them practice in their family lives with their children or their partner. And I often say the ways that we're operating in business in our profession are the same ways a lot of times that we're operating in close relationships as well. And so they're like, well, I don't think I'm going to do that in the next board meeting. I'm like, okay, well, can you practice doing it this week? Yes, practice doing it this week with your partner or your child or a parent you're caregiving. This idea of staying curious really resonates with me because a lot of times I think that decision makers want to understand and get what they need and then move forward. And I remind myself as well as others that being curious also makes other people be seen or feel seen by you, which is equally important and leading.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yep. Yeah. Sometimes you really do have to just go, right? Sometimes you do have to make the decision and start to execute. But if you can exercise the art of staying curious just one moment longer, you do make your team members both feel seen, but also to be able to think. And after all, aren't you grooming them to someday potentially secede you or advance to the next place that they're trying to go to, right? And so by doing that, you're acknowledging, I trust your thinking, I trust your ideas. What do you think here? I want to know, whether I agree with you or not, right? And then we can have a dialogue about that. But you're indicating that trust and that openness to ideas versus always trying to do it your way on your timetable. Yeah. But it takes lots of practice.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Oh, for all of us, right? We're like, oh, our way is going to work. You know, I know what happens when I do it my way. But yeah. There's also a lot of trust in trying something new.

unknown 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Right. And courage and to do something. Oh, okay. Let me just surrender a little bit that maybe I don't know it all. And I feel comfortable with my way of leading our being. So there's so much growth in trying something new.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yep. Yep. Yeah. I had an experience recently where I have been coaching a leader for quite some time now. And I had the opportunity to coach a few of his direct reports. And the converse of that conversation is if one of his direct reports has something that they need to speak with him about, we talked about using techniques like asking, hey, I have something important I'd like to review with you. Is now a good time? Do you have a few minutes?

SPEAKER_04 25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Because so often leaders are interrupted and they're in the middle of a thought. And so what ends up happening is that they're short with the person who's come to them. They're instantly unfocused because they were over here and now they got to go over here. And it's disorienting and it's can be somewhat aggravating for the leader, too. So if you didn't pick your moment properly, you might not get the response you're hoping for. So my converse advice to direct reports is ask. If you have something really important you want to talk about or data you really need to share, you better make sure it's the right moment to share it.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Because otherwise, it won't be heard in the way you expect it to be heard. So set yourself up for success.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

100%. Context is important, just as much as message for sure.

unknown 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah. Yeah. And I think about it in business and things are moving quick and you have to make decisions quickly, and there's this intense achievement culture. What about internally? You know, I think about like the pressure of these moments and decisions. Internally, what does that success look like for your clients and or you know, people that you work with and like the burnout that happens from having to always be on to always be interrupted, changing gears, and feeling a lot the weight of everything being on quote unquote just me.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

How do you deal with that with your clients?

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I think by and large, high-achieving executives, there's a part of them that thrives on that. They like it. They like that cadence, if you will, but they do start to burn out. And the way that burnout shows up is usually decisions that are made too quickly, maybe overthinking things or going back to a decision and analyzing it almost in a loop. Often in their personality, you know, they become more, you can visibly see more frustration or less poorer listening skills often crop up. And sometimes that's when they start to contemplate, man, has this game shifted or is it me? And they start to worry about their own influence and whether they're at their peak still, especially if they're farther along, more mature in their career. And so that opens up the door for some real introspective conversations about what's going on for them. And sometimes it leads to conversations about is this really the right path? And if so, for how long? And what would you want to do if you weren't doing this? And that can be quite quite eye-opening too. But I think one of the biggest things plaguing executives today is this sense of constantly, as you said, constantly being on, but constantly being in, you know, the front of their brain, that executive function. And what's missing often is any ability to be creative.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

And so thought partnership, coaching, having an advisor allows executives to be creative, if only for a short period of time. And that is renewing.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

That helps fill the cup back up, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

For sure. A lot of my clients and people that attend retreats, we talk about the left brain, we are trained in our left brain, right? To be organized, to plan, to execute, accounting, like all of these things. And then the right brain being creativity, connection, curiosity. And there tends to be a lot more joy in the right brain in some of these two activities with clients that they're like, what are we doing? And I'll have them close their eyes and they're like, what? And I'll have them draw themselves and name him or her. And I'm like, oh, we're just like, what if we just for this time today we're working together? We're just gonna pretend you're this human, right? We're you know, make it bring even if it's 45 minutes of joy during a session and that right brain, so that really resonates. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

You know, here's the thing, here's the rub is that we are rewarded in corporate life. We are rewarded for being left-brained. We are not rewarded for being right-brained. And so, in some respects, it's a foreign concept. But with the thought partner or advisor, be curious, it often unlocks better decision making, faster decision making, better ideas, maybe a thought you hadn't had or was buried somewhere deep down. So that is not just renewing, but it also, in my view, accelerates achievement because you've now thought of something new that was buried that might not have otherwise been realized had you not had that conversation. And so, you know, I say this all the time, it may sound a little flip coming out of my mouth, but you're not paying me for an hour of my time. You're paying me for what's possible in your life, yes, and realizing that, actually doing that, and when you think of it that way, it's a very different type of relationship that we have.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, yeah, that clients are paying you and me to become their very best self. That's it, yeah. The tools and the space to do that, yeah, yeah. Ooh, yeah, which then that brings up so many other questions in the back of my mind, too. And that's a shift, too. I think for a lot of people that are seeking coaching, comfortable one, especially for men, yeah, yeah, but it's also taking ownership, that's gold, yeah, yeah. I think about it's also taking ownership of my future, right? Like, I'm going to do this, and I'm going, and then their accountability partner as well as a thought partner to see, like, are you practicing and doing these things for sure? So, what are the clients of yours that are outwardly thriving?

unknown 31:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

And then maybe I don't know if you see this, but I see like personally things aren't going well in the home, or they just have way too many responsibilities, their calendar is so full, they're maybe not taking care of themselves. I have women who don't go to their own doctor's appointments that I talk about in the podcast, things like that.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

What does that look like working with a client who everything feels like it's going really well on the outside, but more on a personal level is where they're struggling. Are those clients that you work with as well? And what does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah, in all honesty, that doesn't show up a ton for me and the clients that I work up with. I think how it shows up is maybe different. The way it shows up is it's more of this reckoning of or a little seed of doubt about is this all there is? Or is this where I want to be and stay? I think it's more introspective than things are falling apart in their personal lives. Certainly, we do talk, you know, there certainly have been clients of mine who feel like their health is suffering because of the amount of extreme stress that they're under at work. But we don't tend to focus on that as much in my practice. What we do focus on is how do you create time and space in your corporate life to attend to those things in your personal life. But we don't tend to focus so much on personal life. I think we really we talk about how do we let the corporate life, how do we set boundaries in the corporate life to allow for the things we need to take care of and that are most important to us. The thing we do talk about is value systems, and that bleeds into personal values for certain. And how you want to be as a leader is often there's overlap with how and who you want to be as a spouse or how and who you want to be as a parent if you have children. So that does bleed over. But it's interesting. Again, I think it's possibly a difference between the willingness to talk about personal dimensions between men and women, and I tend to be, yeah, I guess I'm not. No one would ever accuse me of being the most empathetic person in the world. And I feel I say that, you know, with great maybe chagrin, I don't know. I tend to not be the most empathetic. I do my clients often and I develop very strong relationships such that, you know, I feel a great degree of loyalty and almost responsibility for the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Yeah, I think I'll leave it there.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yeah, yeah, and it just manifests and shows up differently. It does. Yeah, yeah. I receive that fully. Well, speaking of responsibility and personal lives and things, I know in our call setting up to this, you had shared grief being part of your journey. And as I shared with you, that really resonated with me after losing my father suddenly, and then the decisions and talk about intentional living and how things shift for me. Can you share a little bit about what the journey was caregiving for your parents and how that maybe changed how you see leadership and what that season taught you or is still teaching you?

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah. Yeah. For a period of about a decade, both of my parents were ill. Started with my mother, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at the age of 64, which is quite young. She died five years later. And while my mother was in that five-year period, my father started to exhibit signs of vascular dementia, which is a little different and shows up in some different ways. And I think it was the catalyst of the stress he was under as a primary caregiver to my mother probably accelerated his disease. And he passed five years after that. So for a period of 10 years, it was all I could do to keep my head above water. It was, you know, it profoundly changed me. I found that I was not really doing anything well. I was not certainly not a good corporate leader. I was definitely not the best mom and spouse. And it was tackle the thing right in front of you because that's all the energy you have. And I think what that taught me is well, quite a lot, but what it taught me in the context of what I do today is that these leaders often face different but similar construct in that they've just are fielding incoming all day long. And sometimes the only thing you can do is focus on the thing right in front of you, and then the next thing, and then the next thing. And so where overwhelm and exhaustion are apparent, that's often what I focus leaders on is what is just the very next thing in your lexicon that has to be addressed. And don't, you know, try not to get too overwhelmed with the totality of all that needs to get done because that is what I could no longer do when I was carrying with for my parents. Made me realize that being a leader wasn't everything. So that high achieving drive I'd had my whole life to be, you know, a C-suite leader suddenly didn't seem quite so relevant and important. It gave me recognition that I was largely self-centered up to that point. And what a shame. You know, it gave me renewed perspective on how much more I could have done for those that I was leading. I don't know why that connection happened. It just did. And it was a very tough time. Ultimately, at the what should have been the height of my earning years, I quit my job. And that was a function of I did not have anything left in my tank to give. And that was risky and scary. And I did it anyway because I didn't think I had a choice.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

And so I'm imagining your definition of success shifted or has been shifting. Can you tell me how it shifted?

SPEAKER_02 38:21

It did. And I think my value system shifted too. You know, I value very different things in my work today than I did before that period of time. Again, it was largely self-centered. You know, I would have told you achieving things, achieving titles, achieving compensation would have been definitely some of my overriding corporate goals. When I came out of that period, it was how can I lift others? How can I promote others? How can I help them get to where they're trying to be? And today, my three core principles are I want to have freedom in my personal life because time is short. And if there's anything that period taught me, it's that time is short. Even when you think you have lots of time left, sometimes you don't. And so freedom, do good work, add value, and do it with people you genuinely enjoy. So my clients, I genuinely enjoy. I think I'm doing good work and I'm bringing value to their corporate careers, and I have spaciousness in my life to do things and not miss out on them if by chance I get sick.

unknown 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

That's it. Yeah. Those were not the values I had 10 years ago.

unknown 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

So my father passed a little over 10 years ago as well, suddenly, just gone at 62. And I realized people said, Well, you're not the same person that you were before he died. And I said, Absolutely, I'm not. And differently, my chasing of a career in sport and performance psychology and as a professor, and it just didn't seem to matter in the ways it did previously. And so now the intentional living is like, oh, do I have enough? Do I have enough to show up for the people, the clients, and in the spaces that I want to be? And that might change, right? That might change on the journey too. And I like to think maybe for you too, the grief has made you a better coach.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

I think so. I think so. It has certainly made me more empathetic than I was. It certainly has made me more self-aware. Yeah, it's funny how big catalysts in life can really help you make that pivot, but I think other things can too. I can remember losing a job right. I got fired right after. Well, they said they went did away with the position, but let's be honest, I got fired. Um right after I had my daughter, and I was stunned. My ego took a huge hit. I was devastated, and that caused the pivot into healthcare. So my point is, I think other catalysts can do that for someone. It all shapes us, right? So it doesn't have to be something as perhaps devastating as losing two parents within 10 years, but there can be other smaller things that shape who you are. The goal is to use those to inform how you want to go about the next chapter of your life. And yes, there's time for dwelling, and there's time for sitting with the grief or the bruised ego, but also it can become fuel. So I guess that's one of the philosophies I have is that hard things can become fuel.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah, I believe that. I think the hardest things can be some of our biggest growth in this life for sure.

unknown 42:07

Without question.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah. So what do you protect now that your younger self maybe didn't protect or wasn't conscious of?

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Well, I think in a lot of respects, I've become, you know, that leader of a certain age. And I think as I mature, you know, I'm less willing to shed boundaries like I was. There was a funny post on LinkedIn this morning. Well, it wasn't that funny, actually, it was ironic, about a woman who, in her younger career, had been told how to dress and what she needed to wear to the office. And she asked for other people's comments. Well, of course, there were a flood of comments. And I can remember, you know, having to wear a suit every day. Lord have mercy. There's no way I was showing up without nylons on my legs. I had to have closed-toed shoes. I mean, the list goes on and on. And those principles or constructs were largely applied to female leaders. I don't have time or patience for any of that nonsense anymore. So I guess the thing I protect the most is my own boundaries. I work with who I want to work with. I work with people who are a little bit self-aware, who genuinely want to have a partnership, who come to this wanting a competitive advantage and being open to the process. And I don't deviate from that anymore. Early in my career as a thought partner, you know, you just have to start your business. So you tend to coach a lot of people and not necessarily the best fits for yourself. I don't really do that anymore. Actually, I don't do that anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I work with people who are good fits who I can bring value to. And I really do stay true to that. So good. It ends up working out so much better in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

100%. So this podcast being Success to Soul, I wonder what success to soul means for you and your life.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Well, you know, just on the face of it, I had a tremendous, you know, outwardly, I had a tremendously successful career. And then I had my soul broken. And I had to come back. So, in some respects, you know, that's a very surface-level answer, but that's kind of what happened. I had to get in touch with a part of myself that I didn't often talk to. And that was the humanity in myself. I didn't ever think about that in the context of my work. And I was forced to reckon with it because the caring for my parents happened when I was really at the trajectory of my career, and I didn't have any choice in the matter. And so I had to reckon with that. And that's kind of on the surface what happened. I think the coming back from it is the soul in the work that I do now is having a better understanding of myself, having a better understanding of what I can give, and being much, much more aware of my own shortcomings and poking fun at them.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, being aware of them and like, oh, yeah, yeah, there she is. That part of myself coming up again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

And sometimes I'll be in the middle of a conversation with a client and say, Oh, I just did the thing. Okay, wait, let's rewind. I need to undo that.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Which makes me think about how Yeah, we're practicing too. We're practicing too. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So if listeners want to find you or get a hold of you, how can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Oh gosh, I would love to have a conversation. So anyone in your community who wishes to get in touch, it's Corinne at thegavgroup or thegavgroup.com. Either one. Amazing just go direct to me. There's not some series of emails that's going to come afterward. Personal conversation, private room.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Love that. Love that. Thank you so much for your time, your brilliance, and sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom with us.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

You're so welcome. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Amazing. Okay, wonderful. Thanks so much. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

So that's it for today's episode of Success to Soul. Head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance to win a grand prize drawing of a value of $10,000 with Dr. Tanya herself. Be sure to visit SuccessToSoul.com to pick up a copy of your free gift. You can ask her any question you like in your voice, and she'll answer you back personally in her voice. Then join us on the next episode.