Quinda Verheul - Bikepacking, Creativity and Riding a 6,000 km Circle Around Europe

Clare talks with Quinda Verheul, a long-distance cyclist, bikepacker, artist and creative currently riding a 6,000 km circle around Europe.

Quinda shares how she moved from football and creative work into cycling, why bikepacking became such an important part of her life, and how riding long distances gives her space to think, process, create and connect with the world around her.

They talk about:

• Quinda’s first major race at Atlas Mountain Race
• Creating a 600 km circle in the Netherlands during COVID
• Her current 6,000 km circle through Europe
• The tension between racing, adventure and letting go of pressure
• What it means to identify as an athlete
• Being a woman travelling alone by bike
• Creativity, movement and mental health
• Why adventure can be beautiful, messy and difficult at the same time
• How to start bikepacking without pretending it is always simple

This is a thoughtful conversation about cycling, identity, creativity, fear, confidence and the value of making space for yourself through movement.

You can follow Quinda’s current journey on Instagram:

@quindaverheul_

You can sign up for the Endurance Bike & Run Friday Focus newsletter here:

https://endurancebikeandrun.com/friday-focus-insights

And you can find out more about Endurance Bike & Run coaching, clubs and resources here:

https://endurancebikeandrun.com/

Thanks for listening.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Women have always been powerful. Throughout history, we've been peddling, running, and climbing our way to that unique freedom that only movement outdoors can bring. Let's keep inspiring each other. Join me on the side talk to inspiring women who quietly get on with their everyday lives whilst doing amazing things in nature. So thanks so much, Gwinda, for taking some time out of your circle adventure to chat with us today. I've been wanting to do this chat for a while, actually, so really excited. To start off, I guess some people will know you who are listening, and some people maybe not so much. So would you introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

First of all, so happy to be here. It's always so lightful to chat with you. Um about me. Um I'm Gwinda, I live in Italy. I'm originally from the Netherlands. And I'm I've been like, I would say like professionally, or like call myself an athlete maybe five years or so. And I immediately started um bikepacking and long distance riding. Um so that's kind of my niche of the sport. Uh next to that I'm an artist and um creative, so yeah, it uh takes up many forms, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

What was your first long cycling event then?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Like an actual race was the Atlas Mountain race. Uh the inaugural edition in 2020, on the top of my head. That's more than five years. That's not right, what I just said. Um and before that I think it was around 2018. I was living in Berlin and I was kind of so done with um the life I've I had built for myself there. And I bought my first road bike and I just thought I can I can just explore the world with this. Um yeah, I it's pretty I would say it's very me to shift my life completely around, so I just gave up my apartment and started cycling, and um it all started there, I think.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yeah, yeah. Cool. Um I think you did quite well at Atlas Mountain Racing you.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

I mean, for a first event, uh I made it to the finish. So I think that was I made an impact with that, like the the new girl, and it's a pretty big race, and I've never done anything like it, and maybe kind of started training not even a year before that. So um I've heard people say that it is quite interesting to see me doing things off the couch. You you could say that. Um yeah, I didn't I wasn't I had no idea what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Well, I don't know. I think um you weren't new to sport.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I was not new to sport, I was not new to traveling, um and I did my research, and I sometimes forget that because it feels so natural. Um, but yeah, I think I knew in a way what I was doing, but I think the um the not sleeping like the 18 to 20 hours a day on a bike day after day for a whole week that was definitely new, and there were a lot of new body sensations and things that I encountered, and um probably one of the best and worst races I've ever done. Um, but it also immediately kind of made me uh long for more, so I I didn't stop after that, it just normally became more.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah. So what was the next?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

What was the next one? Uh honestly, after that was COVID, and one of the first yeah, um, we couldn't do much, and I came up with this um idea to which I kind of I was inspired by let me think it's Sebastian, I think, from Dresden, who there they were not allowed to go further than a 15 kilometer radius outside of their um like house, and so they they made like a perfect circle around Dresden in Germany, and I was like, oh, that's cool. And I was like, we're not allowed to cross the border, so what if I would fit like a perfect circle inside the Netherlands? And so I designed a 600-kilometer circle and I tried to do it in one go, which I did. Um yeah, that was like kind of the next big challenge that I set for myself, and then after that, when the borders opened up a little bit, I did hope thousands. So I kind of after that I continued with off-road events, like long distance off-road events, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, yeah. So that circle around Netherlands that must have been tricky because like going into supermarkets and getting resupply and stuff, how did all that work?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

That's so easy, really. How was it? Uh I think the trickiest part in the Netherlands is um making it to the ferries on time. Just um there's there's so much water, so there's ferry crossings and things that you have to consider. Um yeah. Um in the Netherlands, because it's so dense, populated, there's just markets everywhere. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

So and that was all okay during COVID. There was no issue with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

No, there wasn't. No.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yeah. Sounds like it was um a bit more relaxed than France. Probably. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

It is I don't know what it was for France, but I remember there were phases where it was super strict and then opened up a bit, so it's just like these waves of like what was allowed and wasn't allowed.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Um we were allowed one kilometer circle around our uh okay. I fell in love with the bike trainer, as did many of us.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah. I think they fell like crazy at the time. Generally, the bike industry boomed, but yeah. Very yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Um and so you you talked a little bit there about identifying yourself as an athlete, and I'm really interested in this transition because I think for for many people, maybe women specifically, um, that was quite a key transition to make, um, sort of psychologically.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Um I had help from someone that was close to me that showed me that I was an athlete and to dare to say it and to be proud of it as well. Um to kind of to to claim my identity a little bit more instead of like, oh yeah, maybe, because I would often say, like, oh, I'm riding my bike a bit. No, you're not, you're like riding your bike a lot, and you take it seriously and you want to do well in events, that's athlete behavior. So um yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was uh that was a big growth over the years because um, like now I could say like this is that is most of my income is coming from being an athlete, being an um ambassador for brands, collaborating uh with them, and there's been doubt in between because in the beginning uh this wasn't the case, and over the years you grow, and um yeah, I wasn't always sure if that was the path that I wanted to be on, and honestly, right now I'm like super grateful for what this sport has brought me. Um and yeah, what kind of options I have because of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, what's it brought you?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Um I think the the the most beautiful thing about this is um making use of my creativity in uh in this maybe a little bit conservative world that is cycling um and spice it up a little bit with uh ideas and identity. Um that's probably the most profound thing, and because of collaborations, um I think I would say like feeling seen uh and it feels uh saying that it immediately makes me think like oh this sounds so superficial, but I think uh it it it means a lot that I've that despite not like being the winner all the time, there's been brands and collaborations that take me seriously as a human and in what I do and my skills, and I think that makes you grow as a human, and I'm super grateful for those opportunities. And it's not only like as an athlete, it's as an athlete and as creative and as the human that I am, and um yeah, that that brought me a lot.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, yeah. I think um it's tremendously valuable to be seen for who you are, uh and to be val to be valued in that in that scene as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, exactly. To be valued for for what you bring into this world. That's yeah, that's huge.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, we certainly um enjoy following your exploits um and adventures. Um you're on adventure at the moment as well. Um do you want to share a little bit about your current adventure and what that's all about?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Um yeah, maybe to start at the start. Um there's been so many athletes doing super crazy things, and maybe after doing Tour Divide last year, I uh I had two thoughts. Like one, what would be like the next crazy thing to do? Which would be like, I don't know, uh like be the fastest around the world. That's not possible. I'm not faster than Lyles, so that's not even like let's not even try. Um but yeah, I feel like in this ultra endurance and just in sports in general, there's been such incredible things done. And it it's I'm not the kind of person that can or wants to do like this next fastest uh among like I don't know, all the mountain ranges in the world or something. I was like, what is what could be what is something that in my range at the moment fits with still being able to do sports, but also fits in the mindset that I'm in right now because sort of I kind of like starts to sit in you a bit, and I think maybe I it's been a bit of a roller coaster of a year, the past year. Um we don't have to go into detail with that, but I think it was necessary for me to just like not have this pressure of competition for a little bit and just be able to enjoy cycling and realize what cycling is for me, and it's actually just seeing things, just observing and um noticing. And so I came up with uh this idea that I had like during COVID, which is the circle, to apply that to Europe because it would also be nice to just do it in your backyard, and so I took the map of Europe, started drawing circles, and funny enough, if you don't want to go into Russia, the circle becomes pretty small to fit overland. Uh so it's a 6,000 kilometer uh perfect circle now, and I wanted to start in the south, which is taking the ferry to Albania, Alola, and then go through the Balkans, which is Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, which was tricky. I had to do some research, and now I'm in Poland. I will go back through Germany, Switzerland, and Italy. And uh yeah, I'm now 21 days into this adventure, and uh I think I struggled the first one and a half week a lot with um this competitive mindset that is just kind of anchored inside my brain. Faster, you can't sleep inside. Uh you gotta be more brave. Um, I don't know, just all these like voices, and then I already knew that I was like, no, this is not what it is about, but it's hard to like just switch it off. You can't just like switch it off because it's it's part of you, right? Um, but somehow I think it's almost like crossing into Ukraine. There's a lot of softness there despite the war, and felt more relaxed and just could let go a little bit of this uh inner dialogue that was just uh I don't know. Or an inner bitch.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um well the yeah, inner bitch, that's a good way to put it. Critical parent, I guess, might be what critical parent for sure. Yeah, might be what other other psycho psychoanalysts call it, but it it amounts to the same thing. Um and I think that is I think that's something that we all experience, that pressure to um for something for us to perform in a particular way, or for something to go in a particular way, or for us to be at a particular point at a particular time in an event. Um, and it's really quite disruptive to our enjoyment and and to our performance, because the more pressure we put on ourselves, the less well we perform, usually uh after a you know that performance curve. Have you seen the performance curve? And if you're not sort of emotionally aroused enough, then nothing happens, and then you reach this peak, but then once you've too emotionally aroused, then the performance drops again. Um and I think most of the time we put ourselves we you know, it's self-inflicted, we it's the inner bitch that's telling us that we have to do something in a particular way or in a particular time or at a particular level. Um whereas the you know, the reality is that we're human and you know, some days we perform really well and some days we just don't for many, many reasons. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, maybe it's good to say like this is not an FKT. It was this whole route was designed to go and see kind of the back doors of all these places, these countries. It's not gonna I'm not designing it to see the national parks or the most beautiful places of the country. It's just like sticking to this specific circle and therefore takes you to places that you might otherwise not go. And yet uh my brain thought I was doing a race.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

So well, a part of your brain thought you were doing a race, maybe a part of you went. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Um that's interesting, isn't it, as well. That just uh following a route and seeing seeing what is on the route, being open to what what the route kind of throws up at you. That's fascinating. And that definitely comes through in the videos that you're sharing on Instagram, which which are lovely to watch, by the way. They're um they are definitely a piece of art, um, in my opinion. Um and I certainly feel like I've got a real sense of just this journey unfolding, and and as the journey unfolds, the people and the places unfold in a particular way as you pass through them.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Thank you. Um, it definitely you can't plan any of it, or like, yeah, you can a little bit. Um but like right now I pass already through Ukraine, but there's like many people that now know that I went through Ukraine or like inviting me to stay with them or whatever, um, which means I have to go back. But uh it's really interesting to notice that that that's part of it. Um but also I'd say like the surprise of meeting people along the way that invite you in, and sometimes also absolutely not. So there's these kind of very quiet days when nothing happens, just fields and fields and the road. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, it's interesting that interaction with um people, isn't it? I was chatting to Claire Sharp about it um a few weeks ago, and um she felt that that was like the superpower of being a woman, is that you she felt like she could interact more because she was a woman in maybe a way a man couldn't as they pass through the same journey.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, and I actually agreed with that because I think I was on the road and kind of thought, yeah, there's this thing about being a woman alone on the bike that brings two things because first of all, um being in a race makes me actually feel safe because there's people around me, like I know there's like someone behind me, there's like such uh there's dot watches that are so uh they will always check on your dot and like yeah, my spot tracker is on and people can see where I am, but it's different from a race because there's just constant movement. Um and I thought, like, yeah, what she's saying is kind of right because I do feel like there's this softness around about women that they are not a threat. Um and it's even like when I wrote some people like I'm gonna ride through Ukraine, they said that oh, you're a woman on a bike, there's absolutely nobody that will even have a second thought of you being uh a threat to whatever, which is super interesting if you think about it. Um and the same with children, like if you're a man, you would approach children. There's a way different vibe than when a woman is just like kind of doing the same thing. Uh, and then again, you also have the part where you get compliments, or they're just like they see a bike, and then I'm coming out of the store, and then there's like, oh, she's having earrings, or this is a woman, and whoa, do you have like e-bike? Is this an e-bike? And I'm like, nope, it's my bike, and then they're like, Wow. So you like I think a man would have a completely different experience than being a woman alone on on the road like that. However, I I mentioned it before, but I have slept inside almost all of the past 20 days because not to be mean or anything, but just like the the feeling of being unsafe. It's it's like you're outside for 10 hours at least, and there's drunk people, there's trucks passing you close by, there's barking dogs, like a lot, and you're just on edge the whole day. And I've had a few times that I did sleep outside and are just just couldn't relax, uh, either because there was just like a pack of dogs. Um I kept on checking if I was like problem. I w I like it was fine. It's just like you're I wasn't I wasn't able to relax. And um yeah, I think maybe it changes a bit sin like where I am now because perhaps you understand the culture or speak the languages or um maybe less dogs, I don't know. But yeah. Um how can I come to my point of like being mean to myself, you're sleeping inside, and at the same time allowing yourself to rest well and understand like yes, being a woman is a superpower, and I 100% agree with that. The other side is also like I feel scared at times, and that's okay too, and to make space for just making yourself feel safe, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And I think rightly or wrongly, um that's we're there are different reasons for a woman to be scared than a man. Um I'm not saying men don't get scared, I think they probably do. But for different reasons. Um and I think uh that fear it it's it's not always um, you know, sometimes it's a sound thing to listen to. It's inbuilt in us to keep us safe. Um so you know, and sometimes it will keep us safe if we listen to it. Sometimes it's it's irrational, of course, but um sometimes it is very rational. Um and there are there are some darker, not very savory aspects about being a woman on your own cycling through countries. Um that's a reality that that we have to manage. Um and I don't I don't think it I don't think it's a good idea to just be no, I'm this superpower woman and I'm gonna do what I want because um, you know, the reality is we can't.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Exactly. Yeah. Sadly, and um I think there's also examples of men that have been harassed and whatnot uh outside on the road, you're vulnerable on a bike, you're carrying your whole life on the bike. Um money, cameras, gear. I I always call myself a bit of an alien. You're like you pass through towns and it just feels like I'm so such a strange creature on a bike with all these things, you know. Um, so you attract attention and um sometimes it's fun, sometimes not. And I've been quite lucky, but throughout like all the time that I've been into cycling, but there's also definitely I don't know, I can I can I can really go back to some experiences that were not okay, and they were definitely not okay because I was a woman and I've been approached in a way that is just not okay. Um so I'm aware of that, and um yeah, I think it's important to protect yourself from certain behavior because it's not it's not your fault. Um, but at the same time, you choices just be able to relax, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah, absolutely. And sleep, as we know, is very important when you're trying to cycle a long way. We need we need good sleep.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

We need the brain power the next day. For the next day, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah, um, well, listen, I I am loving following the journey, so um I'm not sure when we're gonna put this out, but if if people want to watch those videos, where can they find them?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Um just on Instagram for now. Uh yeah, it's the easiest one for me, and I try to put something out every day. Um yeah, in case you are in Germany, Switzerland, Italy, you can join. Uh just ask me. I have a little video when and where I am. Um be happy if people would join me. Or just like, I don't know, have a dinner or coffee somewhere. It's hard. I'm having like itinerary, and you kind of have to stick to that. I'm not gonna stop and wait for other people. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

No, but um, I can highly recommend to ride with you. It's great riding with you. I didn't ride with you for very long because you're much faster than me, but it was very nice to ride with you when I did.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I'm I have a lot of luggage now, so I'm just gonna simply slow down.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah, yeah, I might I might be able to ride with you for a bit longer in that case. Yeah, exactly. Cool, yeah. Cool. Um so uh the um the other thing that I wondered about, because you you you you you started cycling, but you you were uh as a youth, you were a footballer.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

It's true, yeah. I played uh football for even the young national team. I was goalkeeper. Um I've always really enjoyed sports. Like as a little kid, I just I did all of all of the different sports probably every day. Um like school gymnastics as well, and just got into football and um yeah, a bit sidetracked story, but I think I think ten years ago I teached in primary school, um like 11, 12 year olds, and I would often say or explain uh where I ended up with my career. And it's that when I was their age, there were a few things that I was good at. Like one is being creative. I was good at like doing crafts, and I was good at drawing and um creative things, and I was good at sports, and that's kind of where I ended up. I ended up being creative and doing sports, and it's kind of really interesting to understand that that you can do something but something you're good at, and also something that you enjoy doing. Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

I think that's really important, isn't it? I think sometimes I I remember myself growing up, there was a lot of pressure to do the things that would get you a good job or a good career, and um certainly people question some of my choices as I moved on to higher education. Um uh maybe rightly as well, who knows? But um I think if you can be passionate about something, um then it's much easier to make a career out of it because you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah. Um I'm a cyclist now. I don't play football anymore. That might say something as well about many things, but uh at the time I kind of understood already that women's sports wasn't paid the same as uh men's sports. So I guess I don't know, in a strange way that kind of yeah, moves in a certain direction even at the young age. Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I mean, I I think women's football has progressed massively since incredible.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

No, I'm I'm super happy to see where it ended up uh where it is today. There's still a lot to win, but yeah, definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Um but I remember oh 15 years ago, 20 years ago, reading an article about um professional female footballers and just you know, these women they were like looking after a family, they were doing a full-time job, and then they were going on to training, and they had to do it all because they had to look after the family and they had to bring money in because the football wasn't paid them.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Um and you know, and I read what these women were doing, and I was thinking, well, how on earth are you performing at this level? This is impossible.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Oh, how do you not have a burnout? It's probably coming at some point, you know. It's impossible to keep that up. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So um definitely moving in the right direction. Um, well, as with women cycling, um, also sort of moving forward and back, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah, I think I think it depends a bit. There's probably like like the absolute top riders, I think they're they're doing they're doing fine, like they have like a good salary, and I think they they made it work for themselves, and I think they're recognized for their incredible talents. But I think if you start off being a professional cyclist, I think it's a real struggle. And I think still nowadays many have like multiple jobs to make it make it make ends meet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Very hard. Um, so was it like a transition football cycling, or was there something in between?

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Or oh no, not at all. I think I had a whole period of like not doing any sports sorts. Um, yeah. I think I just gave up on football completely. I just wanted to be creative and I don't know, maybe become a fashion designer. I was exploring the whole I don't know, creative palette, let's say. Um yeah, and I think I came back to doing sports. I don't know, maybe I it's probably like 10 years or something that I didn't really actively do sports. I would run, I would do yoga, I would like explore some things, but not nothing like come competitive. Um and even with the football, I think I always struggled a bit with the competition part of all the sports. Um partly because I was I was a goalkeeper, so I felt incredibly responsible if we would lose. That was my fault because I didn't like keep the ball out of the goal. Um and when I was studying, which is the design academy in Einkhoven, it was a very kind of performance-driven uh education as well. So the competition within the class was really high. Everyone wanted to be the best, and I remember just like so many all-nighters to to make our yeah, to to to do all the work that we had to do for uh for school. So I gave that actually my all, it was just my whole life for for four years. Um and I think after that I started working and at some point I realized I just I just want to be outside again. I just want to do sports, I want to be outside and um yeah, realize maybe the values that I have in this in this life, or like where where I want to like the things that I want to prioritize. Um it's different for everyone, but yeah, I think I realize I want to move my body and be outside and see the world.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, I think we're designed to move, really.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, I think humans really are designed to move. Not everyone feels that way, but yeah, for me definitely it's uh necessary to move, to feel healthy, to be able to process things, to I don't know, regulate myself even.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yeah, absolutely. I think um I think you're not alone in that. Um movement is an incredibly um good psychological strategy, um for sure. Um you know, even if you don't feel particularly upset, I think moving just is a really good way. Um gently move in.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

I mean just so so much of like the I don't know, sure months, but just a lot of good brain activity and stuff happening. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

I I mean I used to run on a lunchtime. It wasn't a very long run, it was about 45, 50 minutes um when I was working as a probation officer. And you know, sometimes you you would get stuck with where to go with someone. You you know, you weren't sure how to how to you know the best way to help them. And nine times out of ten it was on those runs where I'd be like that's what that's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Yeah, yeah, that's what yeah. I think there's um there's a study that someone told me it's um it's it's the moving, but it could even happen while you uh drive a car where it's just kind of the passing or the fastness of how the landscape passes your brain that um does something to the brain where you are it's it's easier to problem solve somehow. Um it's quite interesting, I think, how how the brain works in that matter.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Yeah, I think I mean I find this fascinating. I've been um I've been um subject to some brain spotting by um subject. That's a bit of a bad way to put it. I've um had some brain spotting therapy from um Karen Dark, who um we'll we'll probably chat to at another point, but um it is fascinating this um this relationship between you know where we place our eyes and what the vision is coming in and how that affects our brain and how that then affects our feeling. Um and you know, you can look at something like brain spotting and think bit woo, bit. Um but actually now they're they're recognizing scientifically that there there are these links between what you know where we place our eyes and what we see and and how we feel. And and then the simplest version of that is to just um if you're feeling stressed, look at the horizon. And if you look at the horizon, that is calming.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

It's calming, a bit in like in the distance and the horizon. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, sitting on the bike for 10 hours, all you do is like stare at the horizon. Just uh calmly. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Um the the other thing that you you were mentioning with the the cycling was this sort of creativity as well. And I it's it's difficult to know which comes first, but um, I don't know whether it's since meeting you, I've just noticed that a lot of my cycling friends are very creative and are very artistic, or whether it's just coincidence. I don't know. Um, but for you, those things seem to go together really well. This sort of create because you I mean you are an artist in your own right.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Um I have so many ideas on the bike. Yeah, there's not enough time to work them all out afterwards, but uh yeah, I think really good ideas can come while I'm just like on the bike on my own thinking about scenarios and stuff that could uh that I could make or create or um could be like making things, but it's also I think my creativity comes as well in while making the videos maybe, but also in like a marketing strategy or a way to photograph stuff or to help someone like um maybe problem solve um thinking of I don't know something I want to cook, maybe even is it just like um yeah, and it goes pretty far, like right now I'm I could also redesign my whole apartment while I'm being on the bike, and um also maybe because you pass different places, you see color combinations on houses, and just all of that is just like inspiring. Um and yeah, I think that's just super fun. I've had a whole series after Silk Red Mountain Raids where I named artworks after uh the mountain ranges and and the places I've been. Um because literally moving through the landscape, I just had this just an image pops up and just have to write it down. There's like often notes or voice notes to myself or even a little video site because it might disappear to the background, but yeah, they they come up, and um sometimes it takes years to develop, develop the thing, and another thing that can happen is that I would make an artwork. Let's say I made an artwork five years ago, in between I read something, talked to someone, and then you're on some kind of mountain or moving through a very worried landscape, you're just like, but that's what it meant. That's that wait, hold on a second, you're connecting all the dots, and all of a sudden that artwork from five years ago makes sense in the context of all the things that you're thinking at that moment. Yeah, sounds maybe very woo-hoo, but um it can happen that I make something and I just want to make it, and I don't understand really why, and then just in a certain context, five years later, ten years later, just like wait, that actually totally makes sense that I did that because now I see it. Um so it's a lot about processing and and connecting dots while you're moving to space.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Yeah, absolutely. That um I like that. I like those. Um this is not my phrase, but I can't remember who who said it, but those aha moments. Um where you go, aha, that's what that was about. Um, and it it just brings clarity, I think, to to something, and sometimes helps us move on from that point in time as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

That too, that too, yeah. Uh yeah, I think there's plenty of people that ride ride their bikes because they're depressed and and they're feeling better. And um as I said, it's been a roller coaster over a year, and I think uh it's helping me a lot as well to just move and be on my own and have time for just me and my own thoughts. Um so yeah, it's just it's good, it's good to be outside.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Yeah, we chatted, um I chatted with Alice a little bit about this, the sort of the mindfulness of just really you just you just need to keep turning your legs. Not just because sometimes it's quite hard, isn't it? But um but when that is all you all you you can focus on.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Because not in in in a way it's pretty simple, right? You just you follow the route, you you arrive, you in the meantime you eat and drink and try to take care of yourself. So the the idea is pretty simple. Um I once again underestimated how much work it actually is to be on the bike all day and stop and then like look after all the things, like charge your stuff, clean your kit, um I don't know, like maybe send emails, edit a video. It's a lot of work like after you're done. Um also finding a location to sleep and stuff like that, and translate different languages and navigate. It's it's not always that easy. It's uh like what I want to say is like I don't I think what I've done before is like romanticizing, and I think also by watching a one and a half or maybe one minute video of a day in my life is not the reality. Um get me wrong, I really encourage everyone to do something similar and to experience like the the highs and the lows, but uh I think we can idealize or romanticize this idea of oh, she's just like living the dream and on the bike and meeting all these people. Um but it's hard work, it's a lot of preparation, and there's uh yeah, it's not for everyone. So and he didn't even ask me, but I'm just gonna go there. Um, if there's something that I used to do when I did my first race, people would say that, oh, what what would you tell like a younger self, or what would you tell? someone that wants to go into bike reping. Um I used to say just just go and just start. But I don't think it is that simple. I really don't think it is that simple. I think I think it starts with curiosity. So you you see someone else do it and you're like, hmm, could I do it? But you have to organize a lot of things for yourself. Like maybe you already did some some backpacking. So you you know like the camping part or to pack uh for things there's there's choices like do you want to camp or do you just want to sleep inside so you have to bring less um but you need a bike you need a kit you need to know where you want to go you have to do your research so there's going to be you have to do your research you have to talk to people you have to read about it and to familiarize familiarize yourself with what you want to do. It really doesn't have to be perfect. I'm not saying I'm not saying that but um let's say bikepacking and and riding a bike is not necessarily an an easy entry sport.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

I'd say running and buying a pair of betrayers it's uh it's a way easier entry level I'd say maybe sports bath for women would be great but do you know what I'm what I'm trying to say yeah yeah and I think you're right I think um it's very it's very easy I think now for people to see people doing these big things um in a way that uh maybe you and certainly certainly me I was not exposed to to that because we we didn't have internet my first bike thing trip was uh a road by big pioneers just two big bags and didn't even wear a helmet.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

I mean but me neither yeah yeah um I think I had a pump I don't think I even oh yeah I had a puncture repair kit I didn't have a spare inner tube I had a puncture repair kit two really cheap panniers um some sandwiches a Mars bar and a pump and some water that's it I'm glad you brought the water yeah um and I remember cycling along this road it was in west the Western Highlands of Scotland um going into Loch Marie beautiful road amazing road and I suddenly thought nothing I mean I think it's different now with like the Highland 550 and and all these things but back then it it was people didn't really go there in April time nobody passed me not a single person passed me and I just thought actually if I fall here I'm a bit screwed now all of a sudden like your brain's changes of all the scenarios that you have and then I thought oh well better carry on then yeah let's just let's just not crash no crash yeah I mean there's there's a balance between thinking of all the scenarios and uh doom doom thinking like this is I would say think of all the scenarios and prepare yourself because you can bring like forsake it and you will bring like a stove or not or no um and you'll forget things and you will learn by doing and just like go for a little bikepacking event in your backyard first or not I say event but just go for an overnight or just little things.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Build it up I think build it up build it up and and talk to people borrow stuff borrow stuff from people and you don't need the fancy kid you just need like a like a bit of a sporty outfit and and and trainers and a bike and you you can already do it like you don't have to you don't have to copy me that's what I'm saying but there is there's a there's a bit of work to do before you set off I think well I think it's easy to you know look at these reels or or videos or posts on Instagram TikTok Facebook whatever you you know whatever you're on and to assume that they just woke up one day and thought oh I know I'll cycle around the world but you know that's you know you were already sporty you'd already done some things on the bike and you'd already done some multi-days on the bike before you know you didn't sort of just rock up at Atlas mountain race and think right um so you already had some experience um and experience is well experience is key to confidence because the more you experience something and work through it the the more confident you can be. Exactly it will grow yeah yeah yeah but also you you know you learn and it's you know it's less um it's less of a problem if you make a little mistake on your first you know 100k than it is you know in the middle of Azerbaijan when you don't speak the language and there's no signal and no oh anything. So yeah I think people people I I understand why people assume that you can just go and do that because I think that is that's often what what we are presented with but that's not the reality these people didn't just get up off the couch and pick the bike out of the cellar and say right I'm off no it's uh it's years of years of work to get there. Yeah yeah yeah um I was gonna ask um because you talked a lot about the the circle that you're on now and and how it how it developed and it seems to me that it's it's also a bit of a psychological journey for you.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Yeah for sure yeah um and I wondered if you wanted to talk a little bit about that and the value of psychological journeys right um yeah I think one of my ideas before I set off is that um I think we're rushing a lot as humans rushing from one thing to the other thing and we are not often uh allow ourselves to be and uh to listen to what's happening inside to I don't know just process stuff that happened to you um or to other people which is like and um I'm rushing a lot and I'm way too often way too stressed about very unnecessary things and even before I set off I had like this mountain of things that had to be dealt with which is which included like I don't know lawyer papers and and and contracts and things um stressful stuff and sometimes it takes up so much space or or or you you believe you make yourself believe that's the most important thing in the world and sometimes it might be just a distraction of uh what really matters. Yeah and I think some people were surprised because I really I I I pushed my date and my my um how you say this the departure date a little bit because I also wanted to leave things well because I was going to be on the road for probably two months um and I can take care of some things but I only bring my phone and not a computer. So some of those things just really had to be had to be done. And I think I mentioned it in the beginning where there were really loud voices in the beginning in in in my head and there was like a lot of uh maybe some some resistance or just uh made up expectations like because I when I say it out loud I didn't have those expectations just like some something inside was just like but you you set these expectations but you gotta do even better than I don't know. And I think what happens when you start moving and it might be combination of um where you are who you meet but also the duration that you sometimes need to move for quite some time to kind of let go of this almost unconscious behavior it's not it's like a pattern um what's this James what's his name habits it's it yeah it's like habits so you have certain habits and I think by removing yourself from a certain place you're able to kind of rewire certain things and and um being on the road being on your own being with your own thoughts and and just um you kind of like have yourself as uh you're talking with yourself a lot I think it's good it's good to just be and stare at the horizon yeah be bored so long as you're not with your inner bitch you can it's it's a good place to be yeah but even if you if you're like acknowledged that inner bitch yeah like okay well I mean she's there also for good reasons sometimes you know she just like kicks my ass sometimes to get stuff done so she has her place but sometimes she also just like this was not her place um yeah um yeah and I think one other thing that just kind of is is happening or what I recognize is that I have a little bit more like fuck you like not like fuck you to the world but just like it's what I want to do this feels good right now like uh I want an ice cream right now I'm gonna eat an ice cream uh I don't have to justify it to anything or anyone um so it's like all these little things like uh um yeah just maybe say it super shortly like my relationship of more than eight years ended and I think when you are with someone for a long time you uh kind of I think we're justified to that other person but you kind of you always take the other person into account and the only person I have to think for now is me so good I'm on the bike and just just have to take care of me. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Yeah and sometimes we need that we need that space to do that um even in very functioning relationships I think I think that's that's healthy to have that but certainly um at the end of a relationship when there's so much trauma I think just being able to just remind yourself that you're just accountable for yourself and you can look after yourself in the way that you fe see fit and best for yourself. Yeah I didn't even mention that it is really good to cry a lot in yeah on some mountain coming down I don't know it doesn't matter just let it go I don't know but it looked it should be as ugly as you want ice cream ice cream nobody judges yeah I think there's an assumption that we shouldn't be expressing certain emotions at certain times or in certain ways um especially with adults but um and um expression is is good it's healthy yeah for sure let it out let it out yeah definitely um well listen um I'm gonna carry on following your your circle adventure I'm I'm really really enjoying that um I hope other people do too off the back of this um and enjoy it enjoy the psychological journey enjoy the physical journey um as it unfolds um and you mentioned I think to sum up your um what you might tell someone who's thinking about adventures on the bike um go for it but planet I think was sort of the summary of that don't take it as a a light thing yeah I just it's just it's so funny but I'm just like it it's it's a it's a balance just don't overthink it and I would say like go out just like you can do it with the bike you already own um but also don't be a complete idiot and don't get yourself in danger so that's just like and you will grow into it just trust the process the process is fun too yeah um yeah and don't um don't have too high expectations just enjoy that enjoy the journey of getting where you want to go yeah yeah and um and it can be a bit messy but that's okay um I like that we're enjoying the journey I like the messy part you mentioned the messy part it's like humans are messy we can be messy that's really okay yeah that's good yeah definitely yeah thank you so much thank you for taking some time out of your your precious rest day in in Warsaw what Warsaw Warsaw um you finally got across it is Warsaw you're in isn't it I I would call it Warsaw or oh well you probably know War Walsho is uh yeah it's a really cool place actually sunshine it's not really hot and today's like absolutely and then I've somewhat cranked up the heat so it's it's yeah pleasure that have a ring well I I always love chatting to you Quinda as you know it's that I always feel like I I learned something feel a little bit more enriched after after chatting to you so thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Having someone who's in it with you can make a real big difference to how consistent you are with your training and also to how you complete your event. Endurance I can run we've got years of experience of working with women helping them to achieve that big idea. So if you'd like some help and support you can contact me at Claire at endurancebycandrun dot com that's C L A R E at enduranceby can run dot com or you can check out our coaching services at enduranceby can run dot com. We have group training programs as well as one-to-one coaching options. Look forward to hearing from you soon