Alli Holland - Still winning at 52: knee replacements, ultra cycling and staying active for life

In this episode, Clare talks with Alli Holland, ultra cyclist, former road racer, adventure racer, nurse, and long-time Endurance Bike & Run athlete.

Since recording, Alli has finished first female in the Pan Celtic Short Race, adding another remarkable result to a cycling story that already includes winning the Pan Celtic long race, returning from two knee replacements, and continuing to compete at a high level in her 50s.

Alli talks about finding cycling as a teenager, moving into running, adventure racing and road racing, then later discovering ultra-distance bikepacking. She also speaks openly about low energy availability, stress fractures, bone density, recovery, fuelling, strength training, and what it takes to stay active for life.

Clare and Alli discuss:

• using the bike for freedom, adventure and escape
• moving from road racing back into outdoor endurance events
• the culture of weight, leanness and under-fuelling in endurance sport
• recovering from low energy availability and rebuilding health
• coming back from two knee replacements
• why strength training matters, especially as we get older
• the appeal of ultra cycling and bikepacking
• competitiveness, curiosity and “making a nuisance” of yourself
• consistency, movement and staying active for the long term

This is a conversation about performance, health, ageing, resilience and the joy of still being able to ask: “I wonder if I can do that?”

You can find out more about Endurance Bike & Run coaching and clubs here:

https://endurancebikeandrun.com/

You can sign up for our Friday Focus newsletter here:

https://endurancebikeandrun.com/friday-focus-insights

Thanks for listening.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Ali, thanks for coming. Thanks for coming on the podcast. We've been wanting to chat to you for a while. Um, so um thought we'd just start. Some people will know you, some people might follow you on Instagram and stuff, but some people won't. So could you say a little bit about you and your relationship with cycling?

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Cool. Well, thank you. Never been on a podcast before, so this is a first.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

We're the first to grab you. They'll be knocking at the door from now on in.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Yeah, fighting them off with a stick. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, well, uh, yeah, I'm Ali. Um I'm probably a bit late to the ultra cycling scene, really. Um, but there are some slightly older riders out there um as well. But uh yeah, I found myself um back in the cycling game after a few years sort of off, and um I've discovered the world of basically discovered the world of ultra cycling. I mean I've always been quite active and um into into lots of different activities. I mean as a youngster quite quite sporty. Um and cycling became something that I just found I wasn't sort of naturally good at. Got into a bit of running, but you know that that sort of had to stop after a little while, and um I've kind of come full circle really um back to cycling.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Um did you cycle when you were young, when you were growing up? Did you have bikes?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Uh well, I say young, I suppose I mean, looking back, it was probably a bit odd really, because when I was 14 and 15, instead of doing the things that most 14 and 15 year olds do, I was kind of I kind of used to take my bike and a map and sort of go off for little cycle rides around the locality where I lived.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Um for I mean, I d I can't even remember how long for. I mean, it just think uh it feels like it was like all day, but it probably wasn't, it was probably like a couple of hours. And then come back. Um but not nothing really and nothing really serious. Um I think I kind of probably like the idea of it when I was at university, but I didn't really start as we call training um until I was a bit older. Much later on, actually, sort of uh later, sort of in my twenties, really. Later later. Right. Yeah. My late 20s, really.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Right. Um right, yeah, so quite late on. Um, but up until that point you'd been active, you'd had bikes, and what did you use your bike for then? It sounds like when you were 14, 15, maybe to escape.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you don't really know much about yourself, do you? You know, really, when you're that young, you just do what uh I don't know, what feels feels right, but yeah, it probably was. Um because yeah, I probably used the bike to to get away and just you know, to go off for a few hours. You know, I used to cycle into uh little sort of circuits when I was a bit older, probably about 17 and 18 as well. I used to like to cycle to town and back, and to be honest, didn't really think much of it. I mean, but um yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, it reminds me a bit of what I used to do with my pal Claire when we just as you say, we thought we were going to the end of the year, we were going to Howarth, it's like five miles away. But we just liked going off and riding our bikes. I had like I nick borrowed a sister's old mountain bike, she had an old second-hand little racer. We just went off and enjoyed scooting down hills and yeah, and going somewhere under your own steamer.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

I mean, I quite like that, you know. I always quite like that sort of journeying thing. Um and it it yeah, it probably did me some good as well. Get me in trouble.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

But yeah, it reminds me a little bit as well of um Lee Craigie. I can't remember whether I read this or whether she told me, just being at school and looking out of the window, just dying, waiting for the moment she could leave and get out on a bike and into the countryside because she didn't want to be sat in that classroom. Didn't want to be sat in.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

No, and I used to love sports. I mean that's what sort of kept me uh at at school and you know, doing the things I did. I mean, I quite enjoyed school, and I but uh but I got to run around a lot. Yeah, mainly playing team games, but yeah, that's what I loved about it. Um great.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

And then what got you into serious training then? What how did you make that week?

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Um well I I kind of like fell into it a bit, I think. So in my late 20s, I I mean I've had uh issues with my knees since I was 17, and that happened at school, and you know, at the age I think it was the age of 20, at the age of like 26, 27, I had um like my third um operation on my knee to stop it dislocating, and after that I thought, do you know what I really need to probably build a bit of muscle up in that leg and get fit. So I started to I started to run. Um I thought, right, come on, you you've got to do something about this. So I um yeah, just started to run, and that that was kind of like the beginning of it, and it started at you know, me doing 15 minutes round round the woods, the run walk thing, and yeah, after three months I could I could run round the round the woods without stopping, and things some uh I'm not sure what happened, but it's like a little switch clicked clicked in my head, and and that was it. I was kind of like hooked on the oh well I wonder what I could do next, and uh uh I wonder if I can do you know go a bit further, or wonder if I can run up that hill and let's have a go, oh look at that event, let's go and do this event, and um yeah, it kind of all started from there, and then before I knew it, that was becoming like my my thing. Um and I kind of like I've never I kind of like fell into it and then started looking at well okay, what do I need to do to it in order to be able to go and do um I think the pro first proper because I got into running first, the first proper run I did was the Welsh Thousand Metre race because I thought it looked like a bit of a challenge after running up and round dark. I'm like, I can do that, I can navigate. Um yeah, so I started looking at what I could do in order to be able to go and do that, and um it kind of started from there really, and it just snowballed, and then I just kept going and going. What can I do next? Um, and and the bike sort of like just sort of naturally kind of slipped into some of the events I was doing, so um there were a bit of a mix of running and riding a bike, um, and maybe some sort of water sports, because I was kind of like into my into my outdoor sports, and that's what I was kind of like. I was kind of working in that that um that area as well, so it kind of like naturally fitted.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah. Um so some adventure racing.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, and that's what that's what I ended up doing. So I can't at the time, and I can't remember when it was it was in the sort of 2000s and something. There was lots of little events, or more events in the UK which combine cycling and running, and you know, eight-hour events or 24 well, eight-hour events to begin with. Um, so yeah, I just found these events and I thought, oh, wonder if I can do that, and I'd go and do it, and I think, oh, I can do that. Well, I wonder if I can do a longer one. Um, and on those events I just met a few people, and um, and then I ended up racing with the North Face team in the UK on the adventure racing team there. Um, just in the right place at the right time to meet a guy on a bike on an event.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Well, you know, just before you said that, I was gonna say you must have been pretty good at it if somebody thought, Oh, we'll have you on the team.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Well, it was a guy called Anthony, and he was riding his bike, and um I thought, oh, I'll just follow him because he's going in the in the right direction, and after a few miles, he just turned round and said, You're still here. What he was quite surprised to see me still on his tail, and we just got chatting, and then before I knew it, I was trying out for the team, and then we were, you know, I was uh all of a sudden I was on the first adventure race up in uh North Wales. North Wales, I can't even remember where it was, but anyway, um yeah, where we yeah, where we started to do really well, so yeah, and that was another I wonder if I can do this for a week, or wonder if I can do an expedition race, and so I got really into that. Um, and and I guess that's where the tra the you know the real sort of training started, endurance training, really, yeah, yeah for that kind of thing. Um and it combined all the things that I love about being outside in one event, it was a bit competitive. Um, yeah, I was kind of like hooked then from on that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Would you think it was that that drew you to those kind of events? You know, there's obviously this curiosity. This oh, I wonder if you could do that. Or is there anything else?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Well, I guess you know, I there's something in me that you know I is a bit competitive, always has been from the you know, from when I used to plug, you know, be running around my hockey stick, being quite competitive at school. Um and and that still exists inside me. Definitely that curiosity, like, you know, well, I wonder if I can do it, you know, is it possible? Well, and what I learned was actually it's amazing, just keep eating and you keep drinking, and you keep moving, and you can you can just go for m you can go for miles and miles and hours and hours. Um I don't know, it's almost like um it's it's weird this because now I'm a bit older, I kind of like reflect on what it is about the events and why I do them. I haven't really come to it come to the answer, really, but it's it's almost like there's a I don't know, it fulfills some kind of like need in within me. So whatever it is, um it's kind of like I have to it's like taking it right back to basics. I love the the real feralness of the events, yeah, you know, stripping it right back. Um yeah, it's it's it's quite odd, but it's almost like um like a need. Because they're not particularly comfortable at times, and you all have been doing certain races, you think, God, this is flipping horrible. This is flipping horrible. I'm hanging. This is awful, awful. Um, yeah, but you keep coming back for more.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

And I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah, well, it's there's there's there's often the competitiveness, which is yeah, um it kind of it moves us forward, doesn't it? And it it if you're hungry for it, then you'll you know you will suffer that discomfort because you really you're really hungry, either for a position or just to finish. But it also seems like there's a part of you that just feels good when you're moving.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Yeah, yeah, when you're doing it, yeah. And whether that's some kind of innate thing that's like deep tucked inside our little animal psyche, you know, I'm not sure, but it it is, you know, go away, do these things, come back, and like oh just great. Yeah. Um so I don't know what that is, but yeah, it's this curiosity, um, and and also did I also did quite well in them, so you know that I mean that's quite nice. It was never the fastest, never really the fastest or the best, but you know, could hold my own in these events, and yeah, that I you know, I think I've I've never really been very good at like winning races, even you know, my road cycling when I was racing on the road. I was never very good at that, you know, that real tactical final killer instinct I'm gonna win. And even now I don't. I've I'm rubbish at looking at the trackers and being tact, you know, tactical about any events or having any plan. I just kind of accidentally end up at the at the um at the sharp end almost. And then don't really know what to do with it. But um and and whilst I'm competitive, it's almost like that, oh yeah, well, I'm just here to be, I don't know, a nuisance really. Um just yeah, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I'm not sure, yeah, but uh yeah, it's probably um it's probably quite a healthy way to have to be competitive because I think if you if you've got this, I must win, or I must get this position, or I must do this, um, that creates a lot of pressure, and I mean there are no guarantees are there. You can't guarantee to win. It depends who else is there, it depends in the long events, it depends on an awful lot of things that happen during the event. Uh, but as you say it to sort of think, well, I'm gonna go and I'm just gonna make a bit of a nuisance to myself.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

I mustn't if I can make a nuisance of myself, I'm really happy. And maybe you know, and maybe uh yeah, I'm more happy with that now. I'm a bit older, so you know, if I can really annoy you somewhat, you know, that sounds awful, but you know, racing against people that that are you know some of them, you know, I'm older than their parents, so if I can be a nuisance, um that's that's that's what you happen. Yeah, really because I get you know they're gonna be faster, let's face it. You know, I'm gonna, you know, if someone's like 25 and fit, I am going to be on the slight back foot.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, yeah. You know, some there's some advantage to experience, but um it's definitely training when you're 25 is definitely different from training when you're 45 or 50 for sure, even though in our head we think it's the same when we set off for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, although I do you know, sometimes I just think, oh I'm actually I'm probably fitter now than I was when I was uh well I'm definitely fitter than I was when I when I was 25. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Um yeah. So you mentioned there about the road cycle as well, because you you were briefly a procyclist, weren't you?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yeah, sort of like a like semi, yeah, a bit a bit of like a yeah, semi. Did a bit of yeah, competitive road cycling. Um how was that? Well that was quite different, and and I that was kind of like after the adventure racing thing. I I remember I think I was watching the Olympics. I think I was watching the Olympics and watching Nicole Cook, she did a massive like attack. I can't even remember which Olympics it was, and I just thought, boy, that looks like that looks good fun. I could have a go at that. So as you do, I thought, right, I'm quite good, you know, I'm alright cycling, it's my strongest strongest area. Let's have a go at cycling. So um yeah, I bought an old steel bike from the cycle shop up the road, and that was the start of it, and I didn't you know it happened quite quickly, really, because I again I was I was quite old, I think I was like 29 or something when I decided to do that, or maybe I might maybe be in my 30s, I can't even remember, but anyway, and it got quite good and it ended up racing on the like the national scene in the UK and winning a few events, yeah, almost you know, by mistake, but I did win a few events because I just yeah, um and wrote and then rode for a couple of stage race stage sort of um races out out in um Europe and in interesting, interesting sport really. Um again, I just liked being annoying, um which I was. Yeah, while you were winning, which you know, again I'd end up in these, you know, there'd be like five of us at the end of a race, and I could see everyone else has got a plan, and I'd just be like, Well, I don't really know what's gonna happen here, or it's all gonna go a bit wild, and I'm just gonna peddle as hard as I can, um, to try and get to the line. But yeah, an interesting, interesting uh few years of racing.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Um, quite different, yeah, quite different from everything you'd done up to then, because up to then it had been about adventure, it'd been about getting out, it had been about oh wonder what we can do this, we shouldn't do that. Um, and suddenly road cycling, it's it's a different kettle of fish, really. As you say, there's there's a lot of planning, there's a lot of very serious training and and a particular culture, I think, that goes with it, which is a bit different. There is.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I mean, I I quite enjoyed the like the tact funny enough, I quite enjoyed the tac the tactical elements of it, um, in terms of you know, attacking and you know, getting your teammate working together in a team and those kind of things. Um, but I I I found it it was quite an unfriendly place to be. Um yeah, and I it you know after a few years I'd kind of done done with it. It wasn't a particularly friendly, you know, it wasn't a particularly friendly kind of sport. I was quite surprised, really, how unfriendly it was. Um and people are you know really see it really serious about it, and uh you know, at the at the national sort of level, you've got obviously some young girls that are coming through and wanting to be, you know, some of the best in the in the UK, and with that comes yeah, came an element I did I didn't really enjoy. Um and so yeah, stepped away, stepped well I uh you know broke my collarbone and ended up having a big accident, and that kind of um that was kind of the end of it. I never really went back after that, sort of it wasn't for me.

unknown 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I mean it sounds like that it it it wasn't a very supportive environment. Um do you think that was particularly in the women's teams, or do you think that is just road cycling?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I th I think it's just road cycling, it's um it it's and it's at a certain level, it's when you know, you get to a certain level, it just becomes a bit bit serious, it just becomes quite serious. And and with that, there's an element of behaviour that I just didn't like, really didn't like and didn't enjoy. Um yeah, and you know, I met met some riders and it the the racing was just quite uh it was a bit nasty at times actually, you know, and yeah, it's uh that that really isn't for me. Um and you know, and you know, I'm not not wasn't heading heading heading for the top, but yeah, it was just an environment that I'd kind of like done, enjoyed myself, but you know, wouldn't wouldn't go back to. Um and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Do you think some of that's money as well?

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Because obviously, oh it will be, yeah. Money and uh and yeah, and success. Because those, you know, when I when I was racing, it was much I think the women's field is much smaller as well, so that you know, if you were good, you you'd you'd sort of like shoot up and could be quite successful. Um I don't I don't know, I don't know what the women's field looked like now in the national races growing. I'll be I'll be trailing at the back anyway. There's no way I'd be able to keep up with people, but um yeah, yeah, it wasn't it it was I quite enjoyed it for a few years and uh had some great teammates and we did some you know good fun races, but yeah yeah. Um go on, what were you gonna say? Well no, it's just it yeah, it's a a bit serious.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um so you you left pro cycling and what what happened you've broken your collarbone, so obviously that must have taken some time to to recover from.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah. And where did you go from there? Well, I I think I stopped riding altogether, really, um, and started running. So I yeah, I decided that actually rather than in contact because of course when you're just racing, that's all you can do. You can only ride your bike. She says now, but you can only ride your bike. Um and and I I did miss that kind of like outdoor element of it. you know the kind of like going off exploring and being able to camp and you know doing all those kind of things which of course you can't do when you're you know racing or you're training to race road race because it's you know a different kind of training um and so I just stopped riding my bike really just stopped it's really weird and and took up took up running and started running longer distances um and and went back to you know like fast packing on the coastal footpath and Dartmoor and back to the mountains and things like that and just didn't I don't think I did any events for for quite a while actually. Yeah it was quite a while.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Was that because of your experience in the protein? Yeah partly I mean I was very you know very obsessed about it and I was really training and then had this injury um I was out for about six weeks I thought it was the worst thing ever you know when I first came off but actually after about two or three weeks I thought oh actually it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be and maybe you know it's time to sort of go back to my sort of like outdoor roots really and um that was it I think I did a a race when I first came back just just to see how I felt about it and I did that one race one of the national races um and just wasn't just wasn't there anymore right just was just wasn't there anymore and that like that's it really um and so yeah kind of stopped stopped stopped training to race um I think I did some of you know just odd sort of sociable bike rides but yeah kind of didn't race after that um and started running running around a bit more yeah yeah I mean running and cycling I think go well together but there are key differences I think what many people what runners will say who are coming from running to cycling is oh it run is running's just simple just put your shoes on and go yeah whereas cycling's not is it there's there's more to it you've got to yeah look after your bike and you know yeah it's it is more of a faff yeah but you get more places yeah and you go further yeah but yeah I I mean I still like the simplicity of like well running say running you know jogging whatever with my the little backpack on um and I do kind of miss that a little bit but yeah I can I can do the same on my bike now yeah yeah we'll come on to that in a minute so uh the you left pro cycling um started running um and at some point in all this there was um some issues around low energy availability where do you do you think that was from the pro cycling from that culture or do you think it was from something else?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Well I mean it it definitely exists there you know and and you know if they look at the uh the women's field now you know you can see it gotcha um yeah and it has historically always been there really because if you want to go if you want to but go fast uphill you know we all know it's all about power to weight ratio and if you can hit that lightness and retain your power for that period of time then you're gonna be faster. And I wasn't in a team but I have known people you know being in women's team where they've been on camps and their food's been controlled and they're you know it's you know they're constantly on being you know asked to like lose weight and it's it's it's pretty yeah I mean I I'd be quite surprised if there isn't a woman in that competitive field that that hasn't got issues around eating or is certainly not trying to be leaner and you know faster which yeah I think it's probably happens in all kind of like pro female athletes you know you can you can kind of like see it there's no there's no hiding it as is there it's it's tricky so yeah there is all always that trying to be leaner um and that inevitab that inevitably leads to putting yourself in um like an energy deficit being training all or on events yeah um and yeah you know I I I mean I got caught up it up in it just from yeah riding and then running um and obviously you know you do it and you do see gains you know initially yeah you do initially you see gains you're like wow yeah you know this is great I mean coming up hills yeah fantastic um but then you know there is a price to pay and it it you know that comes with more injuries or little niggles that just don't heal um and I and I ended up in a position where um I ended up with like stress fractures and not being out not being able to run I think it was about a year I put I got myself into a position where I just couldn't I just couldn't run. I just couldn't run for about a whole year and I just thought oh yeah well done I've managed to put myself in a position here where I don't even feel like I'm gonna be able to do anything ever again that's probably me catastrophizing but it it it's pretty what I think's um quite scary about it is for for women it's quite easy to do it's quite easy to get yourself in a position where you're not eating enough you've leaned down and then you know that line between just about being okay and then breaking is really really small you know that line the the gap between the two you know it's it's it's not far at all and I just tipped over into that and um yeah it pretty it took me about a year to recover. Yeah where you know and I I went for all the scans because you break bits and bone density was poor and I was only in my what was I mid like mid to late 30s which is not a good place to be really there. Yeah it took me a little while to come back and um it's it was it's a tough lesson to learn but one that you know sits with me.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah I I mean it it does sound like it was a really dark place um physically and psychologically um mainly because you couldn't do the things you loved you know you you know no when you no when you're in that position all this I wonder if I can go out and do that just hopping off on your bike and going on a little adventure suddenly those things are not accessible to you anymore um so yeah very very damaging on a lot of levels and as you say very easy to do very easy really really easy to do yeah um and I suspect I mean possibly better understood now but I I think still not really understood well no I think you know like in clubs and things I don't think there's a big push in clubs to be saying you need to fuel this you need to fuel it after and you need to manage your diet around this performance it's not just a case of going off and running miles and miles or cycling miles and miles and everything will be fine that bit still seems to be missing to me yeah yeah it's kind of yeah probably sort of just pushed under the rug a little bit partly because people are performing well because they're performing well yeah yeah you get exactly exactly that's it yeah yeah it it's quite hard isn't it to say hold on a second but you're probably not gonna listen anyway well it's it is very hard to listen isn't it when you're in when you're in it yeah it's very hard and people might be telling you with the best love in the world I think I I think you're quite poorly and I don't think you're eaten enough and it's not really what you want to hear at that time.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

No and I think you know I wasn't willing to listen until I broke myself yeah yeah you know so yeah and there's been lots of I mean there's lots of athletes aren't there you know decent athletes that have that have kind of brought their stories to the fore and have had to take time off and then come back. Yeah and um yeah so it's not an unusual story but like you say you know you don't have to be a a pro or a you know one of the UK's best you could just be a club runner.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

It's um same thing yeah see it a lot an awful lot yeah um and uh many pathways into it I think um definitely I think um a psychological element but also a situational element and all these things kind of I mean you'll know this from your nursing that it's not just one thing that tips somebody over the edge is it it's clusters of risk factors that come together that that then create the yeah and it you know it's little comments that are made or certain things that you know people say off the cuff and they'll just sit there and yeah nag away yeah it's interesting yeah but you got yourself out of that yeah so um there will be people listening who will be like how did she get herself out of that because they might be in that position yeah well I completely broke myself I mean that stopped me doing something and it took me a year to get back and in that you know I couldn't do anything for ages and um yeah I just you know luckily I had a supportive partner and um I did just start uh read some things but or just started eating probably and realised that actually if I want to be fit for if I want to be fit for life you know then need to do something about it um because if you're looking at a a scan that says your bone density is you know if you if you're osteopenic at 30 whatever it was 38 you know that doesn't bode well for when you're like 78 um so you need to do something about it and it and we read you know it was reversible and you know it's not like oh one day just suddenly started eating again and you know off we go because there's you know like like all female athletes we do think about food yeah none of us uh all of all of us probably think about food well most of us do um but you know the journey I started started eating and you know a year I could start running again and that that was kind of it really we turned to a much more healthy weight um um looked at you know started looking at diet and concentrating on you know good good nutrition good nutrition um and managed to over the over the next few years managed to claw it claw it back um although you know I was reminded reminded it wasn't like oh and then it was all better you know because so many years later I ended up with a stress fracture in my necophema which was probably you know uh well it would would be associated with that that poorer bone density back then um but since then um I think my marker is I fall off my bike quite a lot now and don't I say I don't always break things but I've recently don't break that was different I don't break except for this except for my hand um but you know generally don't break bits when I fall over um yeah I'm a lot healthier a lot healthier and then I had more DEXA scans you know so that's better so I'm now back in the in the normal uh range so it is recoverable but it does take some effort and you yeah it's like anything isn't it you've got to like work work work back towards it um yeah and it is you know as we get older it's about that longevity game and you know you want to be fit now because what we do now in our 30s 40s 50s it will have a massive impact on what happens to us when we get to our 70s 80s um you know and what and how we're gonna be and you know I I see that every day as well so I'm really aware um of what that could mean as you get older yeah so that's the kind of aim now you as well as everything else is to be you know to maintain muscle mass and and maintain your independence and your quality of life that's that's that's that's the key really that's one of the key yeah yeah and I think when you're in it it's quite difficult to do the big picture isn't it to take the helicopter up and thinking oh this is a tiny part of my life you know you know for professional cyclists it is a very small part of your life it just didn't last long to say no even you know even in terms of that one race or that one training session or that one season it's tiny it's tiny and maybe you know well as you get older you get a bit I could say wiser I'm certainly no wise old owl but you you know you do gain experience and you realise actually what's really important you know if you really nail it down there are very few things that are really really important and you do see that bigger picture um so yeah with with with a a few more years in the tank that's kind of what you get to see and those things become less important yeah um yeah you know but I think as well it's interesting what you say there because it isn't just you know if you've if you got into a habit and it is a habit um in a lot of respects of poor eating under eating underfueling it's not just a case of one day you wake up and you think I'll just start eating normally because it's quite a difficult habit to break on so many levels one because for some people it's actually quite rewarding to feel hungry. They've done these studies now haven't they which show that parts of the brain the reward centre of the brain is lit up when you are starving for some people and this tends to be people who are predisposed to um conditions like anorexia um not anorexia novosa but this lot you know lack yeah just not eating yeah not eating um so it is hard to break it's not just um you know I think um we'd be forgiven for thinking you just woke up one day and I'm just gonna eat but actually it's not as easy as that.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

I'm gonna get eaten yeah no it's not as easy as that you know and it it would be a you know and I'd be lying if I said you know certain you know certain things even now you know still like oh well I'm not sure I want to eat that because you know those things still you know those those thoughts still are still there um but I've got a slight I've got a more healthier you know healthier attitude towards those kind of they're there but I you know I can like ignore them a bit. Yeah well I can ignore them um and look at what well what is healthy you know and what you know let's let's make a good decision about this I don't need I don't need to listen to those those little voices. Yeah um yeah within reason that you know and you probably still the same you know we still want to eat not there's no one bit of me that wants to sort of sit there and eat 10 donuts I'm not like you know in one go or anything like that. So I'm not like I'm fighting that you know there's certain food choices that I'll make um but yeah yeah I think definitely definitely um well all credit for you for pulling yourself out of that and getting back to um some good performances well yeah and that's been awesome yeah and I've yeah surprised myself really what was it that drew you to ultra cycling then so uh god and whenever it was that I I I met you and John I can't even remember the year was it 2021 or 2022 I can't 21 I think I just thought do you know what these are wearing out a little bit I like my bike I and I saw some of these ultra cycling events and I was doing like do you know what I think I could do some of those I want to have a go at that I want to see if I can do that and um it was a kind of right well if I'm gonna do that I'm gonna the the coaching coaching really works for me so if I'm doing something I can get quite obsessed about something and I love I love the the training for things I like I love that process um and someone that can write a good training plan that I can just do and stick to and it's perfect so I think before I'd even started back on the bike I'd kind of like had a good old Google search and and kind of let's go and see if I can find someone that I think will be able to support me on this next this next journey see if I can do this and I found you guys online and uh I think noticed that uh John had supported Jenny Graham on the round the world race I was like right that well that sounds like kind of person that knows what they're talking about let's uh let's get in touch um and so I was looking for something I was looking for the like the next some a challenge again because I've been out of it for for so long my knees were wearing out and I couldn't quite do the events that I wanted to do anymore so I thought right let's do it on the bike and so I just slipped back onto the bike and there you go I thought right well I want to do that pan Celtic in in next year so let's let's train for that and um that's kind of what we did. Yeah yeah and um did you win it yeah yeah yeah I did yeah I've been off my bike for quite a long time yeah and uh got back on it and I think I'd done a few rides before uh John started you know actually coaching me so I you know so he really took me from okay not complete nervous and not completely unfit but it took me a little while to get back into the swing of the bike but yeah within how many months I was like f like yeah flying on my bike again and that felt pretty good I was quite surprised myself really um and that's what was it about the long bikes then that that speak to you these long rides I mean pan Celtic six days I know yeah but it's a bit like an adventure race but you only cycle and what I love about it is you put all your stuff I'm looking at my bike over there because I'm packing it for the next one but you put all your stuff in the bag all in a bag uh you download your route and then off you pop and you can you can you can stop when I mean this is what I like about it I can stop when I like or not usually not in your case well yeah I might have to address that this but yeah I can do do what I like I can just scroll under a bush for a couple of hours I mean it's just you're out I'm outside for like I know I've got I'm outside for like six seven days on my bike and um yeah that's it I don't really know what's gonna happen. There's bound to be some things that you know Come at you, you can cover loads of miles. It's just um, I guess it's it's like just you're off, aren't you? It's completely free. You can do I can do what I like. I quite like it, I'm on my own, so I don't have to like negotiate anything with anybody, yeah, other than myself. Yeah, um, yeah, it's just great. Just take your stuff and go. There's and there's not there's no not really any rules because the rules are all based around getting yourself around without any help. So there aren't really there aren't really any rules either. Um which is what I quite like as well.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Um I mean what comes across when you talk about it actually is that sense of freedom. I mean, obviously you're following a route, but that sense of freedom. Yeah, you can stop when you like, you can ride when you like, you can ride for as long as you like. Um you really need to do is just keep moving, keep going.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah, and it's a bit competitive, so um that's quite nice as well. Because I have been on bike packing sort of trips. I did the Hebridean challenge, and even on the Hebridean challenge, I you know, I couldn't I couldn't really stop. I couldn't really stop on it, I just rode up it, yeah, and then back, you know, with minimal. I did make myself stop, I took a tent and everything, but I just wanted to keep going and do it do it in that kind of like race style, which was maybe it's because I'm on my own and just crack on and do it, I'm not sure. Um, yeah, so it's it's it's like that that that little competitive touch with it being a race that I quite like as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

And I think it's quite healthy, um, the way you describe that as being something that you like, because I think a lot of people have this weird relationship with competitiveness, saying, Oh, you know, I'm you know, I'm pissing on my teammates, or I'm you know, I'm I don't know, pushing past people to get past, or it's it's not, I don't know, maybe culturally it's not a female thing to do, who knows? But um, in actual fact, I think if you can say I am competitive, I like making a nuisance of myself with faster riders, um, and I like I like going as fast as I can and seeing what happens, I think that's that's a healthy way to be. Definitely. Um, so you did pan Celtic um and a few others, and then um Southern Divide. And then we had the knees, didn't we? And then we had the knees, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

We had the knees. What happened there? Well, god, the knees fell apart.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

They find what the my left one finally gave up. Oh yeah. And as these things do, it gave I f I sli I sloped down the bottom of my stairs at home. Oh it really hurt. I didn't really think much of much of it, but actually a month later it wasn't wasn't very keen on like staying in the place and he should stay, and it was all completely unstable. I tried to ride the whatever it was, the Dales divide, but every time I put my leg down my whole knee would like move, and you know, I was just falling off all the time, and yeah, I thought I was even I thought I was going to do myself some damage, so I bailed out of that, and it then became really apparent that there wasn't much there wasn't much hope in in in sort of uh rescuing rescuing the joint, and um it it was time. It was a bit earlier than I'd kind of anticipated a knee replacement being. I wasn't quite ready for it because I'd obviously been training and got quite fit even with rubbish knees. Um so yeah, the MRIs of both my knees were pretty shocking and um right.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Was that arthritis then?

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Yeah, yeah, so uh this left knee, I've always had problems with it since I was 17 when I dislocated it, jumping for a rounders ball thing to catch it, um, and hence a number of number of surgeries on it to stop it moving around. Um, and it it yeah, they just weren't great. I mean, obviously injury um caused a bit of arthritis, and that that just like got worse and worse and worse. So I knew a replacement would be coming at some point in my life. Um, but I was using activity and strength training and all those things to try and keep them going. Um so I didn't anticipated having them replaced for another few years yet. Um but actually, yeah, it was like uh well there was no option, there was no other option at the point where when I wandered back to the you know the surgeon. Um it was pretty shot, so all of a sudden I found myself needing one knee, and then soon soon as I started to rehab that one, the other one, you know, became really obviously the other one was pretty much done as well. Um so what I thought might be a little bit of a fettle just to sort of like replace a little bit of bit of one and get me back on became two complete knee replacements. Um which was uh yeah, a little bit of a shock, really, but one that I didn't have much choice over, so if I want you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

I mean uh you didn't have any choice, uh, which does obviously then you're in that position, aren't you? But I think yeah, one of the things that um strikes me uh is quite reflective of your personality, is as with the knees, as with other things that you've done, it's a case of well, what am I gonna do about it then? What practical things am I gonna do about it to make sure that I can keep moving, to make sure that I can keep doing the things that I love. Um, and I think a lot of people would not have been able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yeah, I thought I don't know, like like moving around and and doing whatever we do is like fundamental to who I am. And um, you know, I mean to be honest, I thought knee replacements because I knew they were coming, so I've been thinking about it for years and years, I knew it was gonna I thought it was gonna be the most horrendous thing ever that I'd be out for 18 months and wouldn't be able to do anything. Um and so I was trying to put it off and off, so doing all this strength training and keeping fit and trying to maintain muscle mass, and so um I was kind of prepared in that way, and so when it happened, my main aim was to try and demonstrate that you could come back from having two new knees and get back to some kind of activity. Um, and I had aimed um to be back and be able to do an ultra cycling event, that was my kind of aim, um, and I think I entered the Norwegian race. That was my big aim in the following in the the August following up. I mean, I did try and come back a little bit earlier throughout the recovery, and it just wasn't gonna happen. Um, so that you know there were a few setbacks, but that that was my main aim, and so I mean you're out for a little while when you haven't done sort of six weeks off work for each one, and in those six weeks, I just it's like a full-time job. Rehab was just a full-time job, yeah. Um because the cut the you know there wasn't another option really.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

No, but you did come, I mean you did travel West Country, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Yeah, it's my first proper ride back.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

And and boy, did you come back?

SPEAKER_02 52:32

I know, I know, it was and that really surprised me. I was expecting to yeah, yeah, shocked myself, which doesn't happen, you know. I was genuinely, you know, I finished it and just thought, Howdy hell. These these things are amazing.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um and for listeners who don't know, you won that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

But it's just it was uh yeah, faster than I'd done it the first time. And um, yeah, I just felt I felt so much stronger throughout it all. I mean, you know, I'd have to push up some of the climbs when I first did it, um, but this time just didn't. Just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

And I mean, even now we're but the knee replacements were 2024, early 2024, and we're in 2026. At the start of this conversation before we started recording, you were like, oh yeah, I'd almost forgot about that. Like I've had two replacements.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Some old things. I know, I don't I don't think about them at all, really. They just um yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Yeah, and I mean what um what an inspirational story um for people out there because it you there are a lot of people with problems with their knees. Um me, I've got a problem with my knees, lots of people with problems with knees. Um, but and I think like you, a lot of people are scared of the replacement and what it will do. Um you know, it's not just a case of someone puts a knee in and it's all alright, it takes a lot of work. But if you're willing to put the work in, yeah, you can come.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

You can come back, you can, you can, and and and funnily enough, I tried to find examples of people that had come back to you know to cycling or anything like that, and I just couldn't find I couldn't find any examples. I could just couldn't find, I mean, there will be somewhere, but um, you know, and if you ask people, and I don't know, there's certain kind of people, you know, most people have had knee replacements were a bit older, and you know, there was a lot of awful stories out there about knee replacements, and you know, and you just can't, you know, I couldn't find anyone who had a really positive sort of knee replacement running about going back to normal kind of story. So, and there's no reason you know, there was I couldn't see any reason why not if you you know rehab properly and and built strength that you could actually build strength, and you can actually I can actually build more strength now in my legs than I could before because I can actually put weight through them and I can lunge and I can squat and I can do all those things.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Um yeah, it's yeah, well, and you know, it told the story in the cycling, didn't it? You know, what you said about the wild west country were you were stronger, you were stronger than pre pre knee.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

I've become the village expert in knees, so all the I can say all the old folk come and ask me what they need to do, but um, yeah, and and I think like all the prehab stuff that I did before, you know, was train weight training, and then you know, John, you know, we decided that we're gonna do a massive amount of prehab to be as fit as possible. Um, before I went, so you know, I was probably the fittest knee replacement patient they'd have for quite a while. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

I think that is key, isn't it? Because a lot of people, by the time they come to have the knee replaced, they're all ready, not very mobile, because they're older and because it's too painful to move, yeah. Um, and pain is very subjective, isn't it? But one of the things that is um you know, if if somebody asks me to describe you, one of the I I would say determined, um, but also you've got a massive capacity to suffer discomfort if the goal is suited.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

Yeah, apparently apparently so. Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't really um yeah, apparently that that that that is the way it is, yeah. And do you know what I don't even really recognise that I'm sure yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Um I'm just thinking of that story you told us about saddle saws on one of the ultra rides and uh I'm sure you'd do the same. It's just um yeah, just just incredible toughness. Right, I'll just buy a few sandry towels, I'll stick those down there and I'll carry on. Yeah, I guess I did uh yeah, and I I think a lot of people would have been scratching.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

A lot of people have just been like, no, I'm too sore. I'm not that tough.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Yeah, yeah. Um well I hesitate to say toughness because I think people use toughness a bit glidly. It's and I don't I don't think it necessarily is just toughness. I think I think it's a lot of determination and having your sight on the goal and thinking, right, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna push myself to the absolute limit to get to that goal because I believe it's possible.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Yeah, probably. Yeah, and not having another option. I mean, you know, I'd probably do that, yeah, to the the detriment of other things, but that's not to say haven't scratched, but it's all up here, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 58:12

It's um well it's physical as well, but there's a lot of you know, if you don't want to do it, it's easy, you know, it's easy to stop, but yeah, yeah, there's there's an an amount of hunger to complete or to do something, isn't there?

SPEAKER_02 58:30

Um that has to be and I've done a lot of the ride by then, you know, nearly finished. Yeah. You know just just a few don't you just I could say just don't fall off and end up hurting yourself and go to hospital again.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Um so you came back, you did Wiles West Country, won that, you did Mother North. Oh yeah how was that? Cold if I remember right. Cold and wet.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

It was a bit nippy, a bit wet at times. Yeah, probably the it's probably the toughest thing I've done, actually. I I think I made I made it I made it a bit harder for myself by not sleeping enough. Um yeah, and having to uh yeah, that made it harder. Um amazing race. Yeah. Um probably tougher than I had I'd anticipated it being. Uh but yeah, it was it that that that was pretty good. And I I again I I ended up like at the front and um because I never look at the I'm really rubbish, I never really look at the um the GPS, I never look at the tracker when I'm riding. I don't know, do you look at the would you look at the tracker? So I only know when I get sent a message saying, Oh, you're like you're second, keep going. Like, oh am I?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Well Yeah. That tends to be how I know is someone will say, Oh yeah, you're here.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

And then I'll just tend to ride. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

Yeah. I just presumed everyone was in front of me, and I was just like toddling along.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Um, yeah. So yeah, that was that was really interesting because it was quite quite tough, quite tough that you know, and the weather was against us quite a bit. Um and and I think the woman that that that won that overtook me um found it quite tough as well by what she said. Um yeah, and a bit bit bit nippy because it did get a bit cold actually over overnight. Some of those videos you posted, it did definitely look yeah, it was a bit wild up in that over that mountain pass. Yeah, yeah. It was a bit wild up there. Um, yeah. But you know, that that perhaps I should take up some like more perhaps do some more mountain biking or some of the mountain biking events, because it was like just being in the mountains. Right, you know, and that's not really that unusual, that weather, is it, when you're up in the mountains in the dark in a you know, bit of bad weather. Um making the you know the right decisions to you know, you can't stop there, you've got to push, you've got to push up and over and get off. Um that's that's that's the only option, you can't be staying up there, even if you're tired.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

Yeah, you either predict it before and stay low until it for a bit, or uh yeah, which isn't gonna happen if you if you like mic. Yeah, or get into it and think, well, I've just got to continue.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Yeah, because that's the only option.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Too cold, can't stop.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Exactly. But yeah, I mean definitely recommend it if anyone wants you know, go to Norway and ride. Fantastic. What a what a place, what a place.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to go actually. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

So um what's next then? What's what's the plan?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

What's next? Well, um a bit a bit late starting my my race or my events this year. You've been a bit busy with I've been a bit busy, yeah. Yeah, an MSc, I can't remember. Postgrad, whatever it is. So that's all done, finished it off. Um, and so the the pan Celtic's back on and it's around Ireland. And I've not ridden around there, and I've always wanted to ride around Ireland. Yeah. So uh that's uh when's that starting? That was starting next weekend, isn't it? It is starting next weekend, which is why my room looks like looks like you're about to go backpacking. It does look like I'm about to go, but I'm looking at it, it looks like someone's been in here robbing the place at the minute. But um yeah, so that's next, and then um I thought I'd come back to the Pyrenees to have a crack at the um Trans Pyrenees because that's I've always liked the the idea of that, and and having been to the Pyrenees in March, yeah, um got a feel for it and thought oh it'd be this would be great to ride more here. So yeah, just gonna do a few events, see how we get on, and then we'll see. Um yeah, we'll see. I've got I've got that that's as far as my planning goes, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

That's probably enough, isn't it? Pan-Celtic and Trans Pyrenees.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Yeah, for this this year, being quite busy, so just get back back into some and then maybe I I don't know, we'll see what we'll see, we'll see what um fancy doing it. I mean I quite like a gravel ride. Um so maybe you know, I look for to do something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

What later in the year or next year?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

Or m more maybe next year. I mean, yeah, that it it kind of gets there's not so many events, are there after sort of September, October, unless you of course go somewhere somewhere different.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Um yeah, there's elements, isn't there? Is that October? Is that September? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Oh, is that the one up in Scotland in October? Got a bit of yeah, that's tough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

Oh, the Scottish Riders. Scottish Riders, they are much tougher than I am. You think live in Cornwall bit soft, um, but we'll see. Yeah, no, I'd like to put like to put in a like a big bigger challenge before you know too long. I haven't quite decided what that's gonna be, but uh just yeah, to get out and and and ride, see how yeah, see if I can still whip round a couple of thousand kilometres of bike riding. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

Um yeah, well, not not so much, nearly a year, isn't it? But um, as you say, it's quite difficult, I think, to do those races and prepare for them and do you know post-grad studies and be a full-time nurse.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Um yeah, it's quite fitting it all in. Yeah, yeah, and my training has definitely reduced in volume over the last like year, you know, this last year just gone. Yeah, it's been something to have to sort of give sort of everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

So but not the strength that you will do.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

Oh, that'll do, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I'm pretty dedicated to my three strength sessions a week still.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

Yeah, definitely. That's m just makes a massive difference, and you know, as as we do get a bit older, it's just so important just to maintain that. So important. Absolutely. You know.

unknown 1:06:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Yeah. And the more researcher read and you know, the more important it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

Yeah. Well, and actually, I mean, something that um your partner Em mentioned in one of the workshops she kind of gave is it it also gives confidence. I I think there's a it's definitely physiologically beneficial for us, and I I would definitely recommend anybody who's coming into their 40s, any female coming into their 40s, do lift heavy things. Not little weights, lift heavy things. Don't hurt yourself, doing it, do it sensibly. But no, no. But a good strength programme, yeah. Yeah, um, but I think yeah, I think the confidence element is is important as well. Um, definitely. Um well listen, thank you so much for taking your time out on a a Sunday afternoon uh while you're trying to prepare for your next bikepacking event. Um, and um we wish you all the best with that. I can't wait to see how you do. It will be interesting. Um, I just wondered if there was um if there was one thing you could say to maybe women and girls who are who are listening who are maybe thinking about cycling or struggle with cycling or or just wondering how to to continue um despite the aches and pains and problems with knees and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

What advice what advice would you give them? Do you know I think I think cycling, I mean from previous to when before before I had my knees replaced, you know, I could still cycle and my knees were in a bit of a state. Um couldn't couldn't really run anymore. So it's a it is a great activity to to to maintain strength and and mobility if you have got really awful knees. I've do you know, I used to get injured all the time running, but actually on the bike, you know, in terms of physical injury from actually doing the activity, I've I haven't really had an injury, so you know, and that's because it's not an impact, isn't it? It's not it's not as hard as running on your body. Um I just you know, just just do it. You'll never be it's funny, I meet lots of people and they're like, oh, you know, I don't know if I can do this distance or that distance. But actually, I think it's just best. I mean it's easy for me to say, isn't it? But just not not to overf over overthink it, because you'll never be really be ready. I don't think you can prepare for whatever you decide to to do as your next challenge. Um but just just to have a go because actually the wor what's the worst that can what's the worst that can happen, you know, stop. Sit down and have a cup of tea and a bit more cake and figure it out from there. Um there's always somewhere to go. And you don't have to go far either. You do know i you know, people think you have to do these big events and they have to be in like these amazing countries, actually. I've had some of the best little trips just wandering out onto I mean I'm lucky I live at the bottom of Dark, you know, the bottom end of Dartmoor, you know, just ten miles up the road. And just getting yourself out and keeping yourself active. I mean that's what it is, keep yourself active. Um I mean, yeah, for me having a a good training, a good training plan that I can stick to, you know, which mixes, a bit of endurance, some of those intervals. We all know that we need those as well as we get older. And my strength training, you know, something like that. Um yeah, and just and just stay just stay moving and stay active.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

I agree. I mean, I think the consistency is key, isn't it? And I think sometimes people make this mistake of sort of thinking, oh, I'm gonna go out and do this massive adventure, and then you know, they're laid up for three weeks afterwards, so anything that they're gained is kind of a lot. I mean, we do take time off, don't we have to be events? Yeah, um, this you know, sporadic training is is never as good as just doing something consistently.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:15

It is uh consistency, you know, consistency is is key. I mean, yeah, I was quite quite good on my bike, but it is just consistency. I'm no different from anybody else. We just do I just do the same things consistently, just you know, and and that's what that helped me with my knees recovered, just did it consistently and have just kept kept doing it. Um and I know I'm not necessarily the nor I could say a normal person. That sounds really but I'm not I'm not like my colleagues, you know. But a lot of them don't do any activity and you know, just getting moving, just doing something. Um I always like to encourage people just to do something whether that you know, get into the habit of doing something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Yeah, it's that habit thing again, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely um incorporate movement into your life because it's good for us, it's good for our bodies, and it's good for our minds.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:18

Oh, yeah, we need to move, we need to move.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

Um, um I think your assessment of yourself is very humble. Um, Ali. I think um from our point of view, um there's an awful lot of talent in there as well, um, and um a particular mix which makes you very good at ultra racing, and it's always a delight to see how you get on. Um, so we're uh we're chuffed to be working with you, um, for sure. Um can't wait to see what's next. Good luck for next week.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Um Yeah, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

Yeah, um, and thanks again for coming on. As usual, it's been great fun chatting to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

No, thank you. It's been uh lovely.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Women have always been powerful throughout history. We've been peddling, running, and climbing our way to that unique freedom that only movement outdoors can bring. Let's keep inspiring each other. Join me each month as I talk to inspiring women who quietly get on with their everyday lives whilst doing amazing things in nature. Having someone who's in it with you can make a real big difference to how consistent you are with your training and also to how you complete your event. Endurance bike and run. We've got years of experience of working with women, helping them to achieve that big idea. So if you'd like some help and support, you can contact me at Claire at EnduranceBikeandrun.com. That's C L A R E at EnduranceBike and Run.com, or you can check out our coaching services at endurancebike and run.com. We have group training programmes as well as one to one coaching options. We look forward to hearing from you soon.