What Pastors Really Want from Missionaries: Interview with Pastors Brent and Brad Part 2

What does it take to keep a church partnership strong for the long haul?

In this episode, Jenn Fortner and Josh Sears continue their conversation with Pastor Brad McAtee and Pastor Brent Hurt, diving into what healthy, lasting missionary-church relationships look like from the pastor's perspective.

They walk through what pastors actually want in newsletters, why follow-up matters more than most missionaries realize, and what integrity and excellence look like in practice.

You'll also hear an honest look at the pressures pastors face, encouragement for missionaries in a discouraging slump, and why treating this process as relationship — not transaction — is what sets missionaries apart.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:01

All right, once again, my name is Brad Nackity. I grew up here in the Springfield area. I pastor about uh 10 minutes north of Springfield at Fair Row at Peace Chapel Assembly of God. And uh anyway, it's good to be with you today.

SPEAKER_06 0:12

And Brent. Brent Hurt. I'm a pastor at Brighton Assembly. It's 15 miles north of Springfield, Missouri. We've been lead pastors there for nine years, and uh we are very blessed.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Awesome. Well, we're so excited to have you guys with us today again, continuing this episode talking or this next episode talking about some of these things when it comes to partnership. And just to kind of re-emphasize some of the things from the first go-round of this, like church relationship is such a huge portion of this, right? It's it's not perfect, right? But we're looking for authentic relationships in this. But once you started connecting with a missionary, so let's say you've been partnering with them on a regular basis, what keeps that relationship healthy and strong over the long haul?

SPEAKER_05 0:58

You know, I think for me that what keeps us strong is is communication. It's like, you know, you want to have friends. How do you how do your friendships stay strong? Is you you talk to them, you communicate with them. Um, you know, from the missionary standpoint, you know, I know that there's a lot of uh newsletters that are sent out. And you know, those newsletters, you know, they get read. And so what you write is what we know. Um, you know, there's emails, there's uh occasional phone calls. Um, but you know, the strong relationships, it's like you you you you see it coming and there's an excitement. Hey, I wonder what they've been up to. Hey, I wonder what God's done in their life. And so um, you know, I think it's just like having a friend with anybody else. It's just, you know, your friend with a missionary, and uh, what do you know? You know what they tell you and and how often you communicate. So I think the frequency uh really does make a difference.

SPEAKER_06 1:47

Yeah, absolutely. I want to echo what he's saying, and then also like you know, I was born in 19, so I know that's that's been a while for but uh in the 19s, when a church supported it, it was like a lifelong commitment, but it's not that way today, and so it's about the relationship, and we support at our church, we support, I want to say 27 missionaries. Out of the 27 missionaries we support, I would say I'm close to five of them. And so we just don't we don't hear uh Pastor Bryce said we we get newsletters, we actually put our newsletters in the hallway and encourage our people to read them. We want to connect with them. We highlight different missionaries that we support every month. Um, but besides that, you know, the five, I'll get texts from here and there, and they'll say, Hey, we're doing great. I need you to pray for this, we could use help with this, and that that connection is what really um kind of supports and drives their cause. And so I think over long haul, I know it's a lot of work. I know that newsletters, as a former recovery missionary, newsletters stunk, you know, but it's how you communicate, and it needs to be more about what you're doing than, and I don't mean this mean, it's gonna sound mean, but more than your kids. You know, I mean we get we get missionaries, the whole letter is just about the kids. I I love it, I love learning about the kids. Right. 100%, but um also I I need to know what you're doing, you know. Uh give me some wins, give me something we can pray for you about. Uh, give me some needs, you know, and that helps stay connected. That I could present to my church say, hey, this missionary just called and they need this. I mean, we'd love to ride behind that. We don't really get that, be honest. I mean, why don't we win the last time from a missionary on the field? We get that from organizations, we get that from our district, we get that from everywhere else, but from missionaries on the field, we don't get a lot of that.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

I just want to echo what Pastor Brett said. Um, you know, we've all read lots of missionary newsletters, and I'm I'm with him. I'm very proud that they have happy kids, good kids. I'm happy that you went on vacation. I'm happy that you, but at the end of the day, when I'm reading a newsletter, I want to know we're supporting you to be our missionary on the field. What are you doing? And it was not being communicated. You know, there's a portion for me that I'm like, why am I supporting this missionary when you know I'm happy your kid went to college? I I'm happy that they had a birthday, I'm happy that they learned how to ride their bike, whatever it might have been.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

My kid did too.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

I can learn how to ride a bike this week. You know, it's like, you know, it's like at the end of the day, it's we're supporting you to do ministry, yeah, not just to live somewhere else. And so um, that sounds kind of cold, but I've read lots, and it's like three-fourths of the newsletter has nothing to do with what it, you know. I'm I'm reading it from the standpoint of what are you doing? Because as a pastor, you're sitting there going, I've been doing all this. What have you been doing? And it's not that we're greater than them. I don't know trying to get into this missionary pastor back and forth. We're all called to do something. Show me what you're doing that you've been called to do. That is the point of the newsletter.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Yes, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think yeah, we teach people to stay 70% ministry active in their newsletters, and that is so important because yeah, you're not wanting to, and personally, if on the individual side of things too, if I'm popping open my email and I see a missionary from a newsletter and they're riding a camel in Egypt, and I'm sitting at my desk and it's like dreary February Springfield, Missouri weather, I'm going, what are we doing here? Like, I don't like you know, like are wait, I'm paying for you to go and have fun for years while I'm sitting at my desk doing my job.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

I'm trying to think of that because you're the only one that's ever fought only personally, what you said. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

But I think, I mean, I think to a certain degree, it's like we need to watch, like, hey, let's let's take it out of the lens of just what are our kids doing? Are they riding their bikes? To yeah, what is what am I doing in ministry? And this is the update that the pastors and individuals that support you want to know.

SPEAKER_05 6:27

Let me let me tell you about this kid that we met the other day that we we've been meeting with them for however long and begin to tell the story. Tell me a story that I can tell. Tell me a story in your newsletter that I can stand in the pulpit and share with our people. That's that's good. That's where it's first okay, great.

SPEAKER_06 6:47

I got one. Well, it's about the connection. Even if you throw in some prayer and say we need this, this we can present that before the people and say, Hey, so and so wants us to pray, and we can rally people. Yeah, you know, and I don't want to sound harsh like we don't want to know about your kids because we do. We hosted a Christmas for a missionary a couple years ago. We highlighted them, we got specific presents for our kids. We I mean it was awesome. And so our our congregation connected with them, they want to know about their kids, absolutely, and they love them and they're praying for the kids and everything. But again, what else are they doing?

SPEAKER_03 7:20

I think too, well, Josh, I don't yeah, I just what one thing that I think it really really matters is frequency really matters. Um, it can like the free like and you you talked about that first thing, Pastor Grad, but I think the thing that really I try to highlight as an educator is uh consistency and staying consistent. So it's not like you're if you say that you're gonna send out six newsletters a year, send out six newsletters. Um, Josh, I don't know if you have anything to say.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

I don't want to No, I mean I tell our I tell our workers the same thing. Like it's it's about consistency and establishing a rhythm and a pattern of being able to share. And we really highlight to them like, hey, yeah, you should be sharing what's going on in the field, sharing those usually a key story or two, share some good quality pictures, some prayer requests, like those are key things to share instead of an update. So um let me ask you this fun question here. What's the best update you've ever received? You don't have to mention names or locations, just what's the best update you've ever received?

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Oh man, that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Or the worst.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Or the worst. I mean, you could go that way too.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Yeah, I don't know, I can get the worst.

SPEAKER_05 8:36

I don't know. I you know, there's nothing, there's nothing that's really coming to mind, and I know that sounds terrible because it does, it sounds terrible, but it but I also think if we can learn anything from it, is there's nothing that comes to mind that so many newsletters are just blah blah blah blah blah blah. And you know, uh ask yourself, would I want to read that?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:05

And if this is a picture of my life, is this what I it's just I you know, we've been going through mission support. We we begin this conversation again in our church about who do we want to support? Who are we supporting that we want to continue to support? And one of the top one of the the first question that came up in our board meeting was are we hearing from them? And you know, we hear from some of them through snail mail, we hear from some of them through email, and you know, we don't hear from them the way that I feel like we should hear from them.

SPEAKER_06 9:44

I know one of the great things, I'll tell you a good thing a missionary does for us, one we support every year, and I need to realize this with a date, but they'll send me a card as our anniversary date the when we supported them. Oh wow! Oh class, yeah, and then so now we've been it's probably been oh 10-15 years. The last one I got even set the amount so that over the last 15 years, you guys have invested this much money into our wow. No, that's a lot of work. That's a lot of work, but man, it spoke volumes.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Wow, yeah, but that's just investment in the relationship, right? Like it goes right back to relationship. That's the kind of stuff we do for our spouse, we do for our kids, we do those kind of special things. This is a relationship, this is a partnership here. Yeah, that's really cool. Man, I'm taking I'm gonna take notes on that one. I'm gonna try to start doing that.

SPEAKER_06 10:40

Guess who's not getting dropped? I mean, I mean I'm just being off, you know, yeah, because they connect it in a in a crazy cool way.

SPEAKER_05 10:47

You know, I think one of the things that I I think about is there's so many great, let me just say this. There's so many great missionaries, there's so many great projects, there's so many great uh organizations, and they're all asking us on a regular basis, will you give to this? So we get from it from our districts, God boy hope, and and you know, uh everything you can imagine, we're getting all of these letters, we're getting all of these asks, and so at some point you've got to stand out, and if the ones that don't stand out, yeah, they don't stand out, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

They get pushed, they get put in a pile because you have a lot of requests, right?

SPEAKER_05 11:32

And they're all you know, it's real simple to go, they're all good, yeah, but which one's the best?

SPEAKER_03 11:39

I Pastor Brad, you said something that piqued my curiosity. You said we're not hearing from them the way that we want to hear from them. What's the way that you beside? And you were pointing to like we hear from them on an email, sometimes snail mail. Um, how do you want to hear from your missionaries more often? And even I'll ask you guys this too and double barrel the question: how frequently do you want to hear from a missionary?

SPEAKER_05 12:06

You know, if you had a relationship with a missionary and you heard something, I'll just say more often it would be this is incredible. You would grab that newsletter and you go, look what the Lord is doing. And there would be an excitement, and once again, you can take that excitement back to the people of your church, and you you build upon that because we are trying to build our missions programs at our churches, and you know, there's been times I've done really, really well with it. There's been other times that I haven't. And I just, you know, I'm just that's just honest.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

But you know, I I know some missionaries that I've heard from once a year. I I had one missionary tell me one time he goes, I'm too busy for I'm too busy for um uh for letters for newsletters. For news letters. I I I just you know, at that one moment, I just about I was just about done, but but I still like that guy, yeah. And so I I didn't because I still like that guy. And then there's the I see that we've been in Springfield, it's a unique situation, so I see that person on a regular basis. So it's offensive to drop somebody, but you know, what do I what do we all really want? Everybody's busy, the missionary's busy, the pastor's busy. Give me some gold. This is what the Lord is doing, not just this is where I went to speak. I'm thankful you went to speak at this rally. Tell me what happened at the rally, tell me a story. And um I think stories, you know, I I think about Jesus. How did Jesus communicate? He communicated with story because it grabs people's hearts, yeah. And I think that's part of part of part of it for me.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yeah, story is a powerful way to communicate. It's good. Uh okay. Next question. What do you wish missionaries understood about the pastor's perspective? The pressures you face, the decisions you have to make. And we've cut touched on this a little bit, but I'll just you know ask the reality of your world that maybe they don't see. So, what do you wish missionaries understood about the pastor's perspective?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

It's like a loaded question.

SPEAKER_06 14:36

It is, it is, it is. I don't know. There's a lot, there's a lot to unpack in that question. One, um I don't know. I don't want to be seem harsh or mean, but the first place I'd like to start is that we're called they call. Sometimes um very good. Yeah, very good. Missionaries have and again, maybe not intentionally and unintentionally, whatever, but have a way of making you feel less than. And so we're called as much as they are. Um, secondly, I get no no joke, at least 10 to 15 calls a week from missionaries. Really? On a regular basis. On a regular basis.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:22

And besides that, okay, that's that's one. Two, the district level, we got projects at district level they're asking for monies. Uh we got projects at national level, they're asking us for monies. Uh, we got these these other organizations, uh all and all good, are all asking for money. And there's not a bad project, and they're all great, but we've got this one source with monies, and we're getting hit from you know at least 50 different directions asking for it. And so just understand that you know, the boat we're in and what we're trying to do at our location, and I know you you need money just like everybody else needs money. Yeah, so I think just seeing it from our perspective that you know, uh what is it, a sectional council, there'll be a line of 15 missionaries lined up to talk to us. And be honest, it it's it's hard to be to tell them no. Like my heart wants to tell yes to everyone, well, maybe not every one of them, because there's some there's some questionable ones out there, but most of my heart wants to say yes, you know, we'd love to support you, we'd love to bring you on, but we just can't, you know. And the reality is we only got so much money, and we're supposed to be good stewards of while we're guys it as hard as it is for them to pick up that phone, and I know that that phone is terrible. I hate it to call them. That's as hard as it is for us to say no.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Ooh, that's well said. That's really well said.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

You know, I want to jump in with what Pastor Brent was saying um from the standpoint of the ask. There's all these, uh, you know, what what is what is the missionary and the pastor, or how do we how do we find this right tension? Is I think the missionary needs to understand it's not just the ask from the missionary. The pastor has the youth pastor looking at him, and he wants a larger budget, and he has a program he wants to do, and then you've got a board member that is passionate about this project at church, and then there's just the building, and then there's just the grass that needs mowed, and then there's the the pressure from you know, just like your home and your home, the bills continue to go up, insurance prices go up, utility prices go up, and the moment you finish a project, oh, and then a kid knocked a hole in the wall. So now we got to start all over again. And oh, our church got hit by a hail storm the other day, and oh, insurance isn't what it used to be. You know, there's not a $5,000 deductible or a $10,000 deductible, it's 1% now of the total value of your property, and you begin to look at problems, you know, it's just like, and so it's just it's not just the individual missions ask, you know, and it's something that I would say to every pastor, but I think we could say to every every missionary also, when you look at what we are all trying to accomplish, is we're trying to build the kingdom of God, and the building, the kingdom of God starts at the local church and it starts on the mission field. It's not it only starts at the local church, it also starts at the on the on the mission field, and so it's just the the constant the board member, that lady in your church, that fam, there's just every conversation is loaded sometimes, not always, but sometimes, you know, there's a lady in your kitchen that wishes your kitchen had new cabinets. There's a lady in your kitchen that wishes they had just that next thing. They wish they had a larger ice machine, and there's just always a dollar figure with every ask. And there's this, you know, my wife has said this to me. She says, You should ask for more sometimes. She's like, You should you should have more asks from church. And there's a part where sometimes I'm like, but I want people to give in the tithe and offering way. And she's like, she's like, she pushes me to ask more, and I don't do a good job with it because I want us to always be a steward of what's already coming in, versus everyone looking at you as the pastor going, what's he gonna ask for this time? Oh, special speakers, special missions. And they're they're they're not just looking at the passion of the message of the missionary, when's the ask coming? You know, there's no such thing as the free lunch or the whatever we we hear all these things, but I think as the as the person sitting in the queue, we're very mindful of as the pastor of all the tensions, not just the the singular missions, and every church should be a missions giving church. I believe that with every fiber inside of my heart, but there's so many we're pulled in so many different areas, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Oh well said, Yeah, well said, yeah. Um okay. What are any other tips, insight, or wisdom you think would be helpful for a missionary to know that we haven't covered yet?

SPEAKER_06 20:48

Uh for me personally, I I would say follow-up is very important. Uh we I've had a lot of these coffee meetings, fun one, face, and that's the end of it. I don't get uh anything back. I don't know follow-up calls and hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what made these, you know, I mentioned in the last podcast of two two ladies I met with who were outstanding. Part of that's two meetings I had the last six months. Both of them afterwards, I got a and this is very old school, but I got a handwritten note in the card. Yeah. Saying, man, this was great, had a great time of coffee with you. It was it was great getting to know you, Pastor Clayton. That stood out, and that made an impression. And so the follow-up that they did, and I've had ones too, and they and I tell them, listen, we can't put you in a queue. And they're like, Well, hey, can I call you back in September? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. And never hear from them. But I've had a couple that will actually call and say, Hey, Pastor, remember you said check back with I thought that was awesome, and that it's a follow up to me, it was very important that they were passionate enough to say, I'm Not gonna let this die. I'm gonna continue hitting this and see what happens. And it's worked out for a lot of them.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

That's great. Do you have a preference for how a missionary ends up with you after a coffee?

SPEAKER_06 22:12

No, no, because after a coffee, hopefully you both have connected.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

I know that.

SPEAKER_06 22:17

Yeah. Yeah. And that's to me, that's the important part. Hopefully, after connection, after coffee, we connected. Um, and we connected, you know, I probably gave them my cell phone number. They can text me, they can call me, email me, whatever, but at least I know who they are. And for me, that's the most important thing. And as a missionary, a former missionary, that was my important most important thing, too, is I wanted that pastor to see me and know my name. If they knew my name, that was a win for me. Then I felt like I could go take it to the next step. And for me, that that the follow-up is a big deal because I'm like, okay, well, they must not have really cared because they never called back or they never asked for another uh uh a meeting or a service or a pledge, they never asked after that one meeting. Oh man, that's good.

SPEAKER_05 23:06

I'd love to just you know, I could say everything that Pastor Brent just said and say the same thing for me. Um, I uh less than 10% of people follow up, and I I just made up that number, but it's a very small number. Um, you know, if you see him at a meeting, if you see him at something, it's like this is my moment. If it if it happens, great, if it doesn't, they just move on.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

And um just like anybody in communication, I mean, I don't remember our producer Macy probably knows this by how many connections do you need to make with somebody before they actually consider is it is it 16 16 points of connection before it turns into a you know an actual viable connection as if it's cold.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

But as you're leaning into a relationship with a missionary that's cold, you know, and I teach we teach missionaries, Josh and I teach missionaries like you've got to call sometimes upward of five to ten times it before you reach anybody. Absolutely. Um there is a tenacity there that we teach. And I say, you know, don't go into like stalker mode with it, but also don't forget what just happened and follow up quickly. It's work, is yeah, it is work, and there's there's a window of where you should start your follow-up as well. Because if it's like a month and a half away from the coffee appointment that you just had, yeah, you're missing the opportunity. And even a week is a little long. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, that's that's huge. And I'm I'm surprised as an educator that our missionaries are like that somebody teaches missionaries. I'm like, boo, because we need to be following up. I mean, that's like we I we teach them youth individuals, but I think maybe Josh, like we need to be saying a little bit more often, like follow up with your churches and don't don't be scared to be proactive or a little bit of tenacity with it. I mean, to a certain degree, there's a there's a balance.

SPEAKER_05 24:58

There's a balance. I'm thinking of one right now, and everything is the same one that I'm thinking of. It's like it's like you just like stop it, just walk away enough, I'm out, leave me alone. Yeah, and that's that's that's perfect to say too to that too, because I use the word tenacious, but yeah, that you for some people that might be a crossing the line of what's appropriate, and you don't want to do that, so or go to a meeting and try to monopolize all of the pastor's time, and that happens like the moment they get into a conversation, like yeah, how do I get out of this one without just being yeah, right, right, you know, you asked you asked the question a moment ago, what what is something that we would want missionaries to know? Or what could we say? Um, and this is a this is a tough one, and it's the same thing that I would say to a group of pastors let your yes be yes and let your no be no. Integrity is the same for a pastor as it is for a missionary. And there's moments when a missionary will tell me one thing and then do another. And I think it's just really important. And here, you know, it's like be living in Springfield, it's like you know, it's like you you live in the tattletale zone of you're not doing you're not doing what you said you would be doing. You know, Aaron, here's a just a simple illustration as a missionary, you know, we we signed him up, we we um you know, we were excited. They they told me one thing, this is where I'm going to serve. I'm at a pastor's retirement dinner, and I'm sitting at the same I'm eating birthday, I'm eating graduation cake uh or retirement cake, sorry. And uh, and I'm learning that he's doing absolutely the opposite of what he told me he would be doing. And so, you know, that's where our relationship ended. And uh he was not happy at all about it. And he let me know it.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Yeah. Oof. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

You know, it's something you guys are really hitting on here that I think is um an important note, and this is something Jen and I try to communicate, but it's almost like one of those things where as a parent I say things to my kids and they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I should really do that. But then somebody else says they're like, Oh man, that's that's really, really good. I think I'm gonna do that. I'm like, I just told you that last week. Like, I think hopefully, hopefully this will be a reinforcing of things for the global workers that have gone through this training and stuff with us, reinforcing some of those ideas of like a handwritten note to me that seems elementary. Like that's that's a that's a no-brainer that I would I in a meeting, I go straight home and I write a thank you note and put it in the mail the next day. Like that's just something that I think you should do. But um, speaking of excellence, and I think that's where we're kind of the key point we're hitting on here is this idea of excellence. Um Brent, you mentioned a phenomenal thing about the whole anniversary date, and you've been supporting for this long and this much money. That's that to me speaks excellence. But what does excellent look like? What is somebody think of an example of someone who does this really, really well? Just think about that example for a second, and what really makes that person stand out? What do they do that other global workers could learn from?

SPEAKER_05 28:25

I'm gonna say something that's just so simple, and it may not be what you're looking for, but excellence is doing what you said you were going to do. Okay, excellence is saying, I'm called to go do this, and then go do that. And if something changes in your life as a minister, as a missionary, you communicate that verse as a pastor, like you know, you find out, well, they switched fields two years ago, and they just didn't really want to tell you because they were afraid that they might lose mission support. One of the greatest stories that I uh in my life recently was this past fall, there was an adjustment in a ministry that we supported, and I got a letter from them that said, we're making adjustments. As we're making adjustments, we know that you're on auto draft. Um, and so that's how we we we support this person. And they said, we are ceasing that today. We're giving you the opportunity to start supporting what we're gonna be doing next, but we know that what we're doing is changing. And I thought I took that letter to the board and I said, I have never received a letter like this ever. I can trust that person to start that next ministry, even though it's sad for us. We supported and believed in what they were doing, and for whatever reason it needed to adjust. He let us know about the adjustment, but I've just seen too many missionaries over the years, they make these adjustments and they just don't really want to tell you. You know, and they sold us on we're going to do this, and then it changes, and then you find out they're doing something else, or they get kicked out of the country, or it's different if they get kicked out of the country. Tell us you got kicked out of the country. That's not your fault, right? But you know, hey, I got I I but but I've now been it's and I'm sorry because we just live in Springfield, we see so many things. I've been in Springfield now for four years. I'm an overseas missionary. I still in Springfield and it's four years later. Tell me what you're doing. Tell me, tell me why we're still supporting you.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

Springfield is a great place to live. Don't misunderstand me, but it's not what you it's not what we signed up for. And you feel horrible because if you make an adjustment, now I see you. And that's awkward.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:04

I think for me, what what those that stood out and showed excellence is they treat it not as a transaction, but a relationship. Yes. And that very first meeting, they spent the first half of the meeting talking about one know my story, one know Bright's story. And then we talked about them and their story. Then I get the follow-up, then I get a text, then I get an email, say, can you pray? It's it's this relationship, and I know we've harked on a relationship, but honestly, it's all these little things. It's the text, it's a handwritten card, it's the email. Say, can you pray for us that? I mean, I know it's a lot of as a missionary. I understand it's a lot of work, but that's excellence in my book, and it makes the relationship a very valuable relationship that I want to invest in. And to me, that's excellence.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, it's communication, it's relationship forward.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

You know, it's almost like we're going back to the same word over and over, Jen.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Uh Josh, you want to ask one more question or should we wrap it up because of time? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I let me ask this one question real quick because I think Pastor Brad, you kind of hit on some of this about changes. And you know, sometimes people are still around for reasons that aren't of their of their own fault, right? Like they're the same missionaries really struggling to get their budget together. They're really working hard. They've been at it for a couple of years. They're getting they're getting no callbacks, they're getting no's from pastors, they're feeling discouraged. For you guys, what would your words be to a missionary who finds himself in that slump of I'm doing all the work, but nothing's happening?

SPEAKER_05 32:48

I think it's the same thing as a pastor. I mean, we do a lot of work, some of our churches are growing, some of our churches are not growing, some of us have been plateaued, and you know, I you know, what would what would I say? And it's it's it sounds like the Sunday school answer. It sounds like a cop-out story. But I think sometimes we just have to go back to prayer and say, God, what are you saying to me? What do I need to be doing? Um, how many times has God asked me to go down a road? And this is it sounds weird, but I felt like I was supposed to go down this road. I I felt strongly that God was leading me down this road, but that road didn't have a happy ending. But I still know that I was walking in obedience. And it's really easy and it's real popular to talk about, you know, obedience is better than sacrifice. It's real easy to say, you know, what is success? Success is obeying God. But all of us want success in the world's eyes. The world's eyes is my mission. I was called, my mission's dollars just started, just started rolling in from everywhere. And in the same day as a pastor, you just want God, you know, unless God Jesus built it, you know, we labor in vain. And there's all these things that go along with it. But what would I say is discouragement is real. It happens for the missionary, it happens for the pastor. You know, and so what do I tell myself? And what have I had to tell myself at times? Okay, God, what are you asking of me today? And it sounds like the Sunday school answer, it sounds like the cop-out answer, you know, because I I grew up in a world when things didn't work go well, just work harder. You know, somebody gave me a shirt recently. Shut up, nobody cares, just work harder. And I think there's been moments where I'm thinking, I didn't work harder, I worked longer hours, I put in the harder work. And I think for our missionaries, I think we have a lot of missionaries that do the same things as a lot of great pastors. But I think what what do you say to somebody is you got to go back and just say, Jesus, what do you say to me today? And um it's good, but it's not, it's like, yeah, but that's not the answer I wanted to hear. And I know that because I I walked through that in my own life. Yeah, I hear you, God, but that's not the answer I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear, and thousands of dollars showed up, and hundreds of people showed up, and there was a visitor every, you know. It's like I I think uh for the missionary to understand the pastor goes through the same thing as there wasn't a visitor this week. And you know, or is the missionary saying, I didn't add any support this week? It's understanding all these things, and it goes back to you know, God, what are you saying to me? I I believe with all my heart that God opens doors. I also believe with all my heart God shuts them, and nobody wants to hear.

SPEAKER_06 35:49

Yeah, sounds good. I mean for me, I I'd ask them, I'd tell them, go back to the call of God on our life. Like, let's start there, okay? You know God called you, okay. 100%, yes, God called me. Okay, okay, so you know that, and the statistical answer nobody wants to hear is well the God's gonna make a way. Okay, but then how do I stand out? Because that that literally was us. We took it took two years to raise our budget when we were used to be serious. It was horrible. It was horrible. I remember the very first meeting I had with a pastor, very first one. Pastor hyped me up, you go, Oh, yeah, yeah, we're gonna support you, we're gonna support you, we're gonna support you. Nothing. I followed up, nothing. A month later, I followed up, nothing. Three months later, I followed up nothing. Never supported me. He was the very last guy to support me. I was so mad. But during that two years, I was like, okay, I know God's called me. I know this is where we're going, this is what we're supposed to do. And they got to the end, I'm like, well, how am I gonna stand out? Because I'm not I'm not a real elaborate person. I'm not, you know, I'm not a huge extrovert, you know, I'm not this, I'm not that. I got caught up in all that, and I thought, okay, well, why am I good at? I'm I'm a servant. So I followed my missions guy around. I served him. I'd go to the meetings early to help him set up, help him tear down. Any pastors there, they need help, they're cooking, they're serving. I'm back there serving with them. Through that, I was able to stand out, and I was able to make a way. Honestly, what it wasn't for me because I'm not a great fundraiser, but I knew I was called. Okay, well, what am I gonna do to stand out? Because you'll have our meetings, our sexual meetings. We have more missionaries than actually active pastors at our meetings. Wow, and so how am I gonna stand out in a crowd of missionaries? I'm gonna serve the junk out of them, yeah. And that's what I did, and before I was fully funded. So you gotta stand out and find your way to stand out, and that maybe do the little things like the follow-up, the cards, the letters, handwritten, I handwritten everything. I mean, and then just serve your way into the hearts of the pastors.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Man, can I just want to say thank you guys both for mentioning it at the same point there, talking about going back to your calling? And that's one of the things I talk to missionaries who are in this really I tell them from the get-go, this season of your life, we tell them this is ministry, and a lot of this is preparation for ministry in the field, and there are gonna be moments you hit in the field where you you're not gonna see the traction, you're not gonna see the forward momentum. And I can look back on our own life for those times we've hit that, and it goes back to the okay, but the Lord called me. And if he called me and he still has me here, yeah, then I have to trust the process. And if I'm doing what I can do, there's a tenacity and a grit in that of the Lord called me, I'm seeking his face, he still has that call on my life, so I'm just gonna stick with it. And this is a preparation for what you're gonna face in the field because you're gonna face these same seasons of discouragement. I know you guys do the same thing as pastors. You face those seasons of discouragement, you face those seasons of slumps, of of downs, of low times where you're you're striving, you're struggling, you're working the ground, and you're just not seeing the production. You go back to the point of all right, but I know I'm here, the Lord has me here, and so I'm just gonna stick with it.

SPEAKER_06 39:11

Absolutely. Pastor Bracknell, what are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_05 39:13

I just you know, several years ago, I was just praying, and I felt like the Lord just gave me a word. Um, it wasn't what I wanted to hear, but it was just the word effort, and I just feel like the Lord, I mean, it was many years ago. It was just like I just felt like as I was praying, is the Lord just said it's just gonna take a lot of effort. And everything we've talked about today, the follow-up notes, the follow-up that this, the the communication, learning to take the no, it's just a lot of effort, but it's a lot of effort for the missionary. And as a pastor, we recognize it's a lot of effort for the missionary. But I think as the pastor, sometimes the the pastor wants the missionary to know that there's been a lot of effort just to get to here today, right? And um, and so just you know, wherever wherever you're at, you know, you're driving up down the road and you're listening to this podcast, just you know, just be reminded, it's a lot of effort to do anything. And just you got to determine your mind. And as Pastor Brent was saying just a moment ago, what has God called you to do? Well, if God called me, I'll tell you what, I I don't want to not put the effort in because God called me.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah, that's a good place to end for today. Um, yeah, I just want to say, oh my goodness, guys, thank you for coming in. This is just so I don't know why we haven't had this conversation before. Like, I mean, in this, it's just a beautiful conversation. And I think uh I've learned some things as an educator just by listening to you guys share your perspective. And I think this is just above and beyond. I I couldn't be happier. As and I yeah, I'm gonna I've taken notes. Josh has taken notes. We're so excited and thankful. So thank you guys.

SPEAKER_05 40:55

Thanks for having me. It's been great.

SPEAKER_06 40:56

So thank you for voting.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, Josh, anything to close out?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Just appreciate you guys so much. Thank you for being generous with your time and being willing to share your hearts. I know that a couple of times you're like, I don't want to be offensive, but this is good stuff that missionaries need to hear. I mean, it's we get lost in our own world sometimes as well, too. And so hearing the other side of the coin really does help and brings perspective. And so, thanks you guys for being willing to be candid, to be open and and vulnerable to share your hearts. We really appreciate it.