Hatched- Episode 2- Talking Quality with Richard Finalyson!

30 Years in Business: What It Really Takes to Last | Richard Finlayson

What does it actually take to build and sustain a business for over 30 years?

In this episode, we sit down with Richard Finlayson, Director of Quality Group, to unpack a journey that spans continents, industries, and decades of change. From growing up in global hospitality environments to leading one of Australia’s long-standing training organisations, Richard shares the real story behind longevity in business.

We cover the highs, the setbacks, and the moments that tested everything—from navigating COVID in a face-to-face training industry, to making tough calls on failed ventures, and adapting to a rapidly changing landscape driven by AI and shifting markets.

But beyond the business, this is a conversation about people—mentorship, leadership, and the impact of helping others build better futures.

💡 In this episode:

• The reality of running a business for 30+ years
• Lessons from failure (and what most people get wrong)
• How COVID reshaped training and hospitality
• The role of AI in modern business
• Why great businesses always find a way
• The importance of people, culture, and leadership

This is a raw and insightful conversation with someone who’s seen it all—and kept going.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Hatch, Idea to Impact. I'm Jenna Devonport and I'm Dr.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

McMahon. This is a podcast where we sit down with people behind successful businesses to unpack their journey.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

The lessons, the setbacks, the mindset, and what to take them along the way. Real conversations about what it actually takes. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

And we're here today for the second episode with the owner of Quality Group, including uh Quality College, which is in both Sydney and Adelaide, and Quality Events. Hence the reason we're here in the uh wonderful fig tree restaurant down at the Adelaide Zoo. Um he's also been the owner of a ship that never sunk, but also never floated. Um Welcome Richard Fiddlesson.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Thanks for having me. So, Rich, we're gonna start from the beginning, way back in your youth. Um, I hear you've lived in a few countries. Talk us through your journey, where you've been, and and how you got here now.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Uh so my father was working in hotels. So uh started off in the UK, in Scotland, and um he worked for a big hotel company called Stakus, and I've been bought out by Hilton, and then he was headhunted to move to South Africa. So, as a family, we went and moved and lived in South Africa for five years. Uh, I finished my high school in South Africa and then went on to hotel school and studied there for a couple of years, um, and then we as a family decided to relocate and we moved back to um Scotland. Um, having said that, once you've lived in a place like Africa where it the sun shines uh you know 16 hours a day and the lifestyle is very different, um we found it hard to settle in Scotland. I I continued my study and ended up also doing a placement in France because obviously French, uh the French are the kind of godfathers of hospitality as we know it today. Um, and then my parents moved out to Australia. Um, came home one morning and they'd gone. Um, and uh I finished my second year of study and then came out to Australia and uh went to Regency Park.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So I've I've been lucky enough to uh been taken a couple of times, so I've gone with you to South Africa. Um I know there's some still waiting for my invite, but whatever. I still I think there's a lot of uh things to unpack about South Africa. So what was what was your dad doing in South Africa? And let's hear a bit about why you're while you're there, what you saw, and interesting time in the 90s there.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, absolutely. So it was actually uh in the 80s. I'm I'm uh trying to give you a few years. I'm older than a lot older than I look. Um so yeah, so he was headhunted by a company called Southern Sun, and they uh owned uh about 27 four and five-star hotels in South Africa, and they also uh started the very first casino in South Africa in a place called Sun City, and he was responsible for staffing that hotel and training and staffing the the other hotels. Um so yeah, it was it was kind of my first real experience of five-star hotels uh because he was the one of the directors of the company. We could stay pretty much in any hotel in Africa we wanted or South Africa we wanted, and it was all paid for, which was lovely. Um it's a shame I wasn't older because um didn't get the the uh joy of free alcohol, but um certainly enjoyed my experience there. Uh yeah, I was fortunate enough to go to the opening of Sun City and Frank Sinatra was um was the the lead then and and he opened um the entertainment center there. Saw a range of wonderful events.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

You went and saw that one? You went and watched it?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Went and watched that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yep. Was there another one you didn't go to or had tickets to?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Okay, you got me now. I sold my tickets to Frank Sinatra. I was a 17-year-old. I was 17 at the time, and uh I didn't see the value in Frank Sinatra. And unfortunately, uh I never got to see him, but I I made some good money uh and then blew it all at the casino. I don't like to talk about that, but obviously I have. Yeah, I also saw some world uh heavyweight fights. Um, a guy called Cheri Kutcia and Mike Weaver went toe-to-toe, and another guy I think called Charlie Weaver, if my memory serves me. Uh, tennis events, uh Rod Stewart. Um, yeah, there's a lot of major events. But having said that, the the other side, um apartheid was still part of the uh I suppose legislation back then. Nelson Mandel is still very much in jail, and uh while South Africa had some really great things about it, it also had uh, I suppose a very um dark side to it, if you like. And uh yeah, there were some other things that we saw there that um probably weren't that pleasant.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

So hospitality's been part of your life forever. Have you ever thought outside of hospitality or worked outside of it at any time?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Uh yeah, so um I once I finished my college, I I worked in a couple of restaurants and then the Meyer Centre opened up and uh it initially had a fine dining restaurant there, and I was managing that. And a gentleman called Bruce Rosengarten, who was the GM uh of uh Meyer Adelaide, and then he later became a state manager of New South Wales, uh, said to me, Why are you wasting your time in in restaurants in Meyer? Not restaurants in general, but in Meijer, restaurant was a very small part. So I moved into retail and became a business manager in Meyer. Uh ran a whole range of different things, TV and sound, travel goods, uh, confectionary, china and glass. Um, so generally speaking, the the ground floor was was probably my domain in Maya, and I was there for uh around four years. Um and it was a great experience. I think the hours were very kind um coming from a hospitality background. You know, it was kind of nine to five. Um initially Monday to Saturday, they they then brought in Sunday trading. Uh, but even still, it was uh very um friendly, sociable hours as opposed to hospitality.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

What do you think was the biggest takeaway from that retail experience that then you bought into back into hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Well, I think customer service is a very transferable skill. So uh, for example, I mentioned some of the things I did. I had little to no product knowledge, uh, but I knew how to serve customers. So I think you know the fact that customer service is very transferable. Um retail, the the um, you know, the the the wages in retail compared to hospitality, uh not in terms of the hourly rate, but in terms of the percentage against sales are a lot less. So you could be afford to gamble a little bit more with staffing and hospitality, you just can't, because if you get it wrong, you'll lose money. But yeah, no, I I enjoyed my experience. I I uh I'm still very parochial to hospitality and and certainly prefer the hospitality industry, but um, you know, had had some good experience and working for a big uh national company as well uh was different because they're very um procedural. Um, you know, the training was was very good and uh it was just a the corporate world was just a different experience.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So the training business, obviously, it's uh I guess it's always got challenges, especially in the hospitality over the last few years. I think we've spoken then you've been through COVID. How was that for you? With uh obviously hospitality had huge challenges. How was uh COVID and since then what other challenges have you had?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah, well, COVID obviously training is is generally speaking face to face and obviously very practical. So COVID, you know, um threw a few spanners in the works. And it was tough, and and not being able to see your students, especially we we trained a lot of international students, so not having that face-to-face contact with them was was very tricky. Um, but we managed to set up a day a week where they'd come to college and and we were providing meals for them through our other business at the zoo because international students rightly or wrongly lost any access to income that they previously had because obviously hospitality establishments were closed down. Having said that, it also taught us a lot in terms of innovation and the ability to train a lot more online, um, Zoom, and then teams came in. So, you know, at some stages we could have one trainer training 50 students in a Teams meeting or a Zoom meeting. Uh, I could meet with my staff in Sydney and someone working remotely by the team system. So whilst obviously COVID was a challenge for everybody in the entire world and very much in terms of training, it also uh had some some, I suppose, unintended consequences in a good positive way. And I think it kind of revolutionized a lot of um training in in not just Australia but the entire world. So, yeah, there were some productivity gains through uh at the end of COVID. Coming out of COVID uh was an interesting experience. I fronted a parliamentary inquiry in South Australia about the return of international students, and I suggested the initial return would be very strong because we uh alone had a waiting list and Australia was looked upon as a very favorable place to live after COVID, the way in which um the the governments, federal and state, handled the the the um the crisis, the pandemic. Um and that's exactly what happened, but it it was it it heated up too much, and and so much so that you know I think um the uh migration numbers went through the roof, and and the government did what governments do and probably should do, and they slowed it right down. So uh coming out of COVID was a was a boom, and then since then it's been uh very slow, um, especially in the vocational sector.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

So, what what does that now look like for you as a business? Because there's obviously a big change. Talk us through what your thoughts are and where you're headed from here.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yes, so yeah, it has been a big change. The the numbers are about 50% down on on uh you know the the the 2019, the the prior to COVID, and you know, 50% hit for any business is tough. Um the the industry as a whole is um struggling. Uh a number of good providers have closed down. But once again, you know, I have an expression rightly or wrongly that good businesses find a way. So people innovate. Um some people add building construction is very popular. A lot of our competitors have added that to their scope. It's not something that, you know, if I change a light bulb at home, I get a standing ovation. So building and construction is just not something that I'm comfortable with myself. So we've stuck to our roots of hospitality, but we're doing um many different things. We're doing a lot more online, not just here in Australia, but online overseas. Uh, we are doing more assessing, we're doing more domestic students, in particular New South Wales. Um so whilst we have stuck to our roots, um, you know, we're we're doing different innovations within, I suppose, our area of speciality, which is hospitality and hospitality training.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

So at the moment, obviously, hot topic in every business is how does AI play in? So now that you're looking at 50% downturn, what part does AI play in your cost margins and keeping yourself afloat?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah, well, I mean, I I believe, and and the the gurus will say this, that you know, there are two businesses in Australia or the world, those that have embraced AI and will flourish, and those that haven't and and will struggle. We were probably one of the earlier adapters in terms of our industries. So um early last year we we uh got someone in to teach us AI, and never a day goes by where we're not using AI. So AI has many applications. Um, it can help with developing tools, it can help with developing assessments, and it can help even at looking over students' assessments. I use the word help very definitely though, because it still needs human interaction. Uh, AI cannot make decisions uh on behalf of us or our our trainers, but it does speed up the process massively. It does speed up the process of developing new tools, it does speed up the process of us uh assessing students, um, and um you know we we are finding better, quicker, smarter ways of doing things. Um thus far, it really it definitely hasn't um, you know, surpass or taken away a job from someone, but like I'll give an example of our chefs. You know, our chefs have more time to spend now creating new recipes, then the AI will cost that recipe for us. Um, you know, they they have more time to do the creative stuff that they love doing. So in many respects, it's made their their job more enjoyable. Um, and there has been some productivity gains, but it hasn't it hasn't assisted us, not that it was ever supposed to in replacing people. All it's done is is given the people the opportunity to to do the job they love more.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

I think we're very similar in our industry, and you know, there's obviously a lot of fear for people around AI and and removing headcount, but I I think it does then work more towards people being happy and doing what they love and getting rid of those tasks that none of us enjoy doing. So it's certainly a a great tool. I'm curious what's your main AI that you're using? Is it chat, like what is it on emails?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah, good question. So, me personally, I'm an older person, so I start with chat uh GTP or GPT, and I've starting the hacking roll. Whichever one. Uh and I've I've stuck to it. Um, but our guys at the office are using, I think, Claude and Gemini and a few other ones. Um so for me personally, it's chat, but for the other people, I think they use it for different things. Um recently I went to an expo in Korea, and uh there was a video of me speaking fluent Korean, um, all the the benefit of AI, because I uh apart from uh say you I I um on Kamsami Da, I that's about all the Korean I know. But uh and funny enough, after that, someone came up to me and started speaking to me very quickly and fluently in Korean, and I had to admit that um my friends from the AI platforms had had set that up. Um AI is a very big um discussion point in education. Um we teach our students as well to do things quicker and better through AI. Um and you know, external people uh have uh criticized it, but I say, you know, when I went to school once again showing my age, you know, you know, calculators hadn't even been invented. And now, you know, people would not think of using a calculator for you know uh an elaborate equation. And I think AI is exactly the same, that you know, you're crazy to uh ignore it. Um you still need to teach creative thinking and you still need to get people. Obviously, we have we have systems of finding out, you know, and we do say to us bomb means use it, but credit it and and edit it. Credit and edit, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yes, yeah, it it's I think we we hear a lot in our industry that it's not a it's not a threat because you're still gonna have human relations and people want that um that personal touch. I would have thought hospitality is probably gonna be an industry that's that's not bulletproof because it gets hit on every every aspect. Hospitality seems to cop at first, but I think in the way of the AI taking over, people are still gonna want that conversation. You're not gonna want to go to a bar and just have a pour your drink out of a computer or that, because you still want that interaction. So what would so I touched on the boat in your introduction? Uh the Buffalo. What was that about? You used to have that down at Glenelg. How long did you have that for? And what did you end up selling it for?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

So um the Buffalo was a passion project for my late father, and and um, you know, back in the day the Buffalo was a fine dining restaurant. And I remember having dinner there once, my father and my aunt, and uh my dad said, I'll one day I want to buy this, and sure enough, years later, um he went and put an offering and bought it. Uh the unfortunate thing then is you know um it had it the replica was amazing, but it was too exact. So if you can imagine uh a replica of an old wooden vessel sitting uh in water, it started to to um corrode, if you like. And so he um basically turned it into a family restaurant. Um and 2001, it was incredibly popular, it was a very you know clever idea, and we used to fit it um pretty much every night, um, or certainly on the weekends. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years later, and I was running the college, and we just opened up in Sydney, and and uh we had a motel and it was just a lot on my plate, so we looked to sell, which we managed to sell about 2005. Roughly seven years later, um well the council put a caveat that I had to go guarantor for the next people. And about seven years later, I got a letter in the mail saying um that people have defaulted in their rent, and you now need to take it over and pay us a considerable amount of money. Um, commercial and confidence comes into it, so I can't say exactly what we did. We didn't settle on on the amount that they'd asked, but we had to pay a bit of money and we took over the buffalo. Um the wood was rotting, literally rotting, and I think someone even put their foot through the floor, and uh it was in need of a lot of money to keep it. So I um suggested that if the council and the or the state government wanted the the buffalo to remain, they had to purchase it. They weren't overly enthusiastic, did mount a quite a considerable campaign, and then at one famous meeting um that the vote only went 6-5 against them buying it, so it was getting close. I stood up and said, I'm gonna demolish it. Um and I I said that, and then somebody um came to see me and I said I wanted to sell it to the council for by the way, for a dollar. So that was um, I think you had to have some kind of monetary value, and I wasn't greedy, even though I'm Scottish. And uh I just wanted to sell for the dollar, and someone who had a salvage company approached me and offered me a dollar, and I said, done, and he took it over, and uh, unfortunately, um the the the reconstruction, if you like, never went ahead and they ended up demolishing it.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Also tried to work with them on a concept of a new restaurant there as well, didn't you at one stage? Is that right? Uh not really.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

So what happened was he sent me the plans. Oh no, I meant with council, not with Oh, with council, yeah. So so what I proposed is that we we demolished it, but we had um two-story with uh cafe and interactive museum downstairs because there was still a lot of artifacts there. Um and we could, you know, I've actually still got a replica model of the Buffalo and Antique, and then upstairs could be a function center. Uh I think you know, uh every blushing bride and adler would love to be married in that you know, overlooking the the four shroud of the elk. Uh and that got a bit of traction. Uh, but um governments of all persuasions around the world are slow-moving animals, and I just couldn't afford to keep working out the money anymore, so I took the dollar.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So part of uh what we talk about is having what through business, you have successes and failures. Uh, I guess over time you've done quite well. What would you say is your biggest mistake or failure that set you back?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah, so I've had a few, and not too few to mention. Um, probably my biggest failure was uh we got into a coffee roasting business um too late. I think the world jumped on roasting coffee and and and Paster Coffee was great, it was just at the tail end of COVID, and our USP, if you like, was biodegradable pods. In COVID, you had to order an online and so on and so forth. But coming out of COVID, you could go to your local food land and buy some really great pods for very cheap. So we just really and we also spent probably too much on the bricks and mortar. Uh, so we spent a lot of money in the cafe, and then we had a big online presence, and um, yeah, as I say, the pulse coffee was excellent, and the pods biodegradable. You could, you know, the local food land had excellent boutique pods as well. So it really didn't take off, and and we tried different concepts and it didn't end up working for us. So that cost us quite a considerable amount of money. And I I think the biggest lesson there, if you like, is is really uh it's ironic because I teach business planning, and I I really don't think our business planning prior to commencing was as robust as it should have been. Clearly it wasn't. Let's click that biggest success. Biggest success is is really sticking, I think, to what you know, uh, and that's hospitality training. Um the zoo business here has certainly been a big success. Um, it's not just a successful business, but it's an enjoyable business. You know, every day we get to wander around and see the morning pandas in the southern hemisphere and tigers and so on.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Gigantic pelicans.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Gigantic pelicans. And Jurass and the college itself. You know, the college has been going for this is our 34th year. And over the journey, we've won many awards, including the you know, uh twice we've won the large training provider for the entire state, and we came third nationally. And over the journey, it's it's it's it's proven to be a very successful business and an enjoyable business. We we change people's lives. That's pretty much what we do by training. Uh, I think probably vocational education is is one of the biggest factors in changing people's lives. Um, and so yeah, I'd say that's probably been our biggest biggest success.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

34 years is a long time. Um lots of change, lots of external factors contributing to success and failures. What keeps you motivated to keep doing it?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, so it's a really good question because uh compliance is is is is a big headache. Um you know, the legislation changes the tough environment. But then you get a student often I'll I'll I'll go out um to a restaurant and bump into a student, uh, or we get testimonials, and the the student success motivates you. Um you know, people coming and and telling us that you know we help change our lives. Um many people come from overseas with a dream, and and that dream is to to to get a skill to take to this country and stay in this country, and we've had a lot of success over the journey with that. So definitely this student success is what you know gets you up in the morning, and and honestly, some days um you come in and you know you've got a headache and another ruling, you know, and something else to do, and then you get you maybe it's via social media, um, maybe it's directly coming to the college, you get you know someone that that is very appreciative of of what we've done with them and for them, uh, and that really keeps you going.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Might be a tough one to sort of single someone out, but is there any and I think that's probably your the you'd go is that's the best you've seen as success coming from someone you've dealt with.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah, no, it's uh there's a there's a guy, um can't remember his surname off the top of my head, but a guy called Tommy, and he was pretty pretty much at the beginning, and he did a hospitality diploma, and then he um he did a leadership management course, and I actually personally mentored him. That's not why he was successful, because he was always going to be successful. We just we just helped. But uh the last time I'd spoken to him, and we catch up from time to time, uh, he was in the the the Middle East as a regional manager, um, doing incredibly well, and uh was still appreciative of what we'd done for him. I've got one other one if I can. So there was a uh um a guy um who was working at the grand, he was um a kitchen hand, and uh we were doing a program actually at the grand for the grand, and we he applied and and he was a great candidate. And his manager said, I don't want him to to do that because he's the best kitchen hand we've ever had. And I said, Surely there's a lot more value in him. Yeah, well, surely there's a lot more value in him if he can. Anyway, cut long story short, he finished the course, got a job, and um ended up becoming the the food and beverage manager after a few years. And it was more in that instance, it was once again more a case of he hadn't really been given the opportunity. His English wasn't brilliant at the time. He you know, he'd come, I think, from um Croatia, um, you know, just as a you know, probably partly a refugee from the war, and uh he he showed a lot of promise and as I say he he advanced on to a really great position.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

So both both of them it's interesting, like talk about training and almost mentorship. It's almost like do you feel like they've already got the got the now, so they've got the background, and you're just guiding them, or do you think it's like you're acting not not to say that you don't do training, but is that sort of No, I can't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

The success of the person comes from the person. Our our model used to be it success is being prepared for opportunity. And I think in both those instances, I think they would both those people would have been successful. Uh, I think maybe we sped up the process, uh, and maybe you know we we pushed them along quicker and harder than they they would have got on their own. But certainly I think success is mostly from the the person themselves, um, and we're just there to help. Um because you you can't take a terrible student and make them brilliant. Um, they need to be have that baseline in order for to help them progress.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

So we're down at Fig Tree Restaurant for that and thanks for having us here. Just tell us a bit about this. What do you use it for? And yeah, obviously it's at the zoo, great venue, but what's it used for most?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Well, thank you. So uh we use it for a lot of conferences during the day. Um, it's a very busy conference spot because you get um really great access to great parking. And one of the unique things here um is that during the breaks and conferences, usually people rush off and do the emails or phone. Uh whereas here they can go around and see the wonderful gardens and and of course the animals. Uh, we also use it for corporate events, dinners, and uh weddings. Um we have a very busy Christmas season here, um, most Friday and Saturday nights coming from uh late October through to end of December are full um with corporate clients.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, I've been lucky enough uh being at the Southern Nights to uh have a few of our presentation nights here, and always the food's always amazing. Um wouldn't expect any less.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

So looping back into work world, uh, leadership. Obviously, you're a sensational leader, so you've told us. No, the awards would suggest that you are, and you're running a great business. We've spoken about change being a big part of what you do. How do you steady the ship during periods of change and how important is a strong leader?

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Um well, the strong leader I think is is vitally important. Um, but um I'd say more strong leadership, and when I mean strong leadership, one person can't lead. Um, you know, it needs to be a team of people. So I've been fortunate over the over the years to have a really great team of people that work with me. Um I think the two big things are trying to forecast the future, uh, which is probably more uncertain than ever, and also communication. Um, there is a lot of uncertainty uh in every industry, but in particular um training in Australia at the moment. So I like to communicate with the staff on a semi-regular basis, give them updates, um, see, tell them where we're exactly where we're at and where I believe we're going. Um, and I think I'm fortunate enough to have you know been doing this for 33 years, so you kind of can predict with reasonable certainty what's going to happen. Um so yeah, I think that there has been a bit of uncertainty with some good long-standing colleges being forced to close down, but um, just being communicating with people and uh and um people assisting you in in managing the business.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Outside of work, what what does life look like for you? What what are your hobbies, interests?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

It's a fucking nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

You need to re-ask that question again. I wasn't gonna edit. I was gonna leave it.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah, so uh with that, you said it's a nightmare, but um something I left off in your intro is uh I think you're a bit of an aspiring travel agent. What are you what's your favorite place to go? Where do you want to go?

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah, travel. I love traveling as as you well know. Um my favorite place is Africa. Um South Africa is is an easy destination because you can get semi-direct flights. You can you can fly now via Perth to Joburg, um, and then it's only a few hours to get to Safari Park, and you think you're in the middle of nowhere. Uh, but Greater Africa, you know, Victoria Falls, Kenya, Tanzania for the migration, um, Mozambique, um, Mauritius. So um Africa is a continent, is certainly my favorite. Um, place I want to go to the Antarctic. I've always had a thing with my son that we'll we'll go there one day on a cruise, and hopefully that day is not too far away. Um, it's just once again, I think the world has become closer than ever, and so much as you could get off a plane in Seoul or Beijing or Shanghai or New York, and it's very similar to what we have here in Australia. Whereas something like Africa or Antarctica is just it's almost like um arriving on a different planet, it's just so different. Uh, and that's one of the things I really love. So, yeah, travel is very much in the blood, and something that I really enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I tend to agree with that when when travel, if I if I go to a country, I try and go and see the actual country. But I think a lot of the time we're guilty of flying somewhere and then going and staying in a resort where you can do that on the Gold Coast, but actually seeing how the people live and that's amazing, I think.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

What part do you think travel and exposure to different parts of the world, different cultures, environments plays to making you the leader that you are?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Uh I think travel is education. When you travel and experience different people in different cultures, then you learn. And I I think a lot of uh bias comes from ignorance. Um you perceive people and cultures a certain way, but if you actually experience it, then it then it can open up your mind. So also, you know, you you you learn from people doing things better than you. And you know, I think most leaders around the world, clever ones and good ones, will copy something that that that it looks good and and looks better than how they currently do it. So I think that's another real massive advantage in in uh traveling. You know, I've been lucky enough to I've gone to some amazing places in the hospitality and so on and so forth. And if I can digress very slightly, um we went to uh a few years ago, we went to one of the top restaurants on the planet in Cape Town, and we actually brought some of the ideas from that back. My trainers actually went there before I went there, and we incorporated them in our training, so our students were actually learning um to make dishes from one of the world's top restaurants, it's in the top 50, and it's number 47 in the top restaurant in Africa. So, once again, you know, we actually have a program where our trainers can actually go out and dine in some of uh Adelaide's uh top restaurants, um, and the company will fund that uh as long as they then do report and incorporate in their training just to make sure that they're that they're at the forefront of the industry.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

So, with that, we'd touch on that restaurant and people and meeting people around the world. Who's the most famous person you've met?

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Well, certainly in our industry, Gordon Ramsay. Um, I was fortunate enough to meet him when he was just becoming famous. There was a series, uh, his very first one called Boiling Point, and it was quite a big hit in Australia. And I went across there just I think as the second series was starting, and my brother had actually played golf with Gordon in a uh Pro Am and we dined at his restaurant and he so happened to be there. Uh, I think you'll be very, very, very lucky if you if you go to his restaurant these days and he's there. But uh yeah, I got to meet him. Uh, and if I can digress, it was quite a funny story because the the head waiter who uh if you haven't seen the series, he used to really belittle this head waiter. Like, I don't think he could get away with it these days, but he really would would would tell him what he thought. Um, and I told the head waiter that you know I'd seen the series, and he he wasn't overly enjoyed, but we asked if I could go through and meet Gordon, and he said, Yeah, sure. And on the way from the restaurant to the kitchen, there was double doors. And I we went through the first, and we could see Gordon talking to uh one of his staff members and and and kind of giving it that one. And this head waiter turned to me and smiled and said, I think we should come back in a minute or two. Went back to the restaurant, sat down, and then uh he came back and said, Oh, Mr. Ramsey will see you and I went through, and he was incredibly charming, very articulate, very passionate, and uh, you know, they say never meet your heroes. Well, um, that was a hero I met. So that's in hospitality. I don't know if you want me to tell you about the other famous person I met, which was uh another interesting experience. So I um go to Sydney a lot um uh because we have the business there, and um I have my quantist frequent flyer and and um coming back. If I come back usually on a Friday afternoon after 4:30, I'll try and get an upgrade. And I was lucky enough to get an upgrade. I walked in there and I think I was in 1A, and and there was a gentleman sat in 1A, and I went and he said, Oh, do you mind if I sit here? Uh I said, No, not at all, you know, 1B, 1A. I've seen the bridge many times. So I sat down and I started chatting to him, and uh he said to me, I've one of the the most traveled people on the planet, but I always like to sit in the window seat. Um I said, fine, no problem at all, that's fine. And I said to him, Why have you traveled so much? And he said to me, he was an autogram. I used to play golf, and I said, Oh, okay. And we chatted away for a while, and uh I said, any good? And he said, Yeah, I said, I was okay. I won a couple of majors and a couple of things, very understated. And uh I said, I sense an accent there, and he said, Yeah, I said, South African. He said, Yeah, and I said, Ah, I know a golfer from South Africa, Gary Plair. And he said, Yeah, that's me. And I was just like, um, and he was the most charming gentleman, and some of the stuff he told me was just so interesting. And he traveled the world, and I I think he'd won more majors than Tiger Woods, or someone very, you know, because you know, obviously, you know, Tiger Woods and people like that we put out a pedestal, but Gary Plair had um won the Grand Slam a couple of times in majors, and and just uh, you know, you sometimes forget how incredibly talented he was, because I think he's in his late 80s or 90s. But uh he said, you know, his one of his secrets was you know, he get up every morning, do sit-ups and runs, and um didn't drink alcohol. Listen, yeah, you got me at didn't drink alcohol, but apart from that, I'm totally on board with your regime. So yeah, and I just have a wonderful experience to meet him.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Moving on from the famous people, who inspires you?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

I I think anybody um who is passionate and successful uh is an inspiration. Um, you know, if if in the soccer world, I think you know Sir Alex Ferguson is a massive inspiration because he came in and changed the culture. And that's probably one of the hardest things to do in any industry organization to come in and change change the culture. Uh Dara, say it close to home. Chris Bradley is uh uh very I mean his his dad came across with one van and and they built up a business and a very competitive environment. And you've got to turn around and say, My goodness, you know, that's that that's a real great success story from the ground upwards. You know, a migrant made good. But generally speaking, I I think anybody that has a passion and turns into business and turns it into successful business is is definitely an inspiration. You know, I I love to look at you know some of the uh the you know the the LinkedIn people who who who you know talk and are passionate and and have been successful and and I suppose learn you know life's always always about learning.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

With your business, like I guess if you look at the legacy he left, probably a bit fallen to pieces. How do you see your business in five years and what what would you like to see that legacy be?

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Five year plans, uh uh funny enough, I went to see an American guru, um, I can't remember his second name, Tom, somebody or other, but you know, worldwide, very famous, uh, you know, amazingly talented, great speaker, and room full of people, I think there's about 1,200 people, and you know, executives and and he said uh you know, stand up if you've got um a one-year plan, uh you know, pretty much the room stand up, stand up three year, five year. And he said, Okay, if I at the end of today, if you don't go back to your organization and tear up your five-year plans, uh I haven't got through to you guys because the world is so volatile. And I'm talking, this was probably 15-20 years ago. So, sure, the the plan as such, no, uh aspirations, yes. I mean, we are in a mode uh I think I wouldn't say survival, but sustainable is the mode we're in. It's certainly not a growth phase in our industry. Um, but you know, I suppose what we we really want to do is is just go back to roots, specialize in what we do best, uh, grow in fields of online, internationally as well as domestically, um, and and just be known to be the best in our field, certainly in the cooker environment, in the hospitality environment. In terms of legacy, um hard to predict. I do have um some children in the business, and you know, uh it's too early to tell whether they have the the passion uh to go on, and currently it's a job, uh, and that's fine, and there's nothing wrong with that. Um, and the they they both do an incredibly good job. You know, too early to really talk succession as well, because um, and uh I can't afford to retire anytime soon. So, yeah, I certainly, you know, i i i in five years the probably that's the sort of thing I I'd look at more closely. Um, and the pro the plan would probably be to to be, you know, non-executive chairman and and form a board and then support whoever um aspires to the the throne down the track. But at the moment it really is to to steer the ship through some troubled borders. Things in business are almost always cyclical. So we're at the bottom of a cycle at the moment. I think most providers in our space would agree with that. How long the bottom will last, I don't think it'll last too long. Um, because the biggest challenge that most businesses in our industry face are lack of staff and lack of experienced staff. And that comes as a direct result of a limited number of international students. Um so I think that we're we're at we're at the bottom, but I believe we're starting to move back up again because governments of any persuasion understand that.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Looking back over your career and the span of it, if you could give younger rich one piece of advice that would change the progression of your career, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Um I would say ask more questions. Um, you know, I've been so lucky to have worked with so many really talented people and mentors. Uh, I think there's a beautiful clip in Ted Lasso where he talks about being curious. And basically, you know, you get information from people that have been there and done that. And I think you know, that is the best way to learn. And you know, learning from people that have been successful and copying their successes and learning from their mistakes is so important. Uh, in terms of the the direction of my career, uh, you know, I think I've been lucky that I've I've worked across different environments and and retail and hospitality, and and uh that's given me a good baseline. Uh, you know, have I made mistakes in business? Plenty of them. Uh, but in terms of direction and so on and so forth, it really is just just that ability to learn from people that have been successful.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Well, thank you, Rich. It's been great to sit down in a great place and go through it. Obviously, privilege to have call you a friend, and yeah, it's been a great uh interview. Thank you very much.