Rage on the Rocks
Two women. Zero chill. Rage on the Rocks is because we love the world enough to be mad, actually, and leave with a reason to keep going. Pour something strong (tea definitely counts). We'll wait.
Rage on the Rocks
Hormone Grenades and No Sick Leave
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A lot of women spend decades feeling like their bodies are a full‑time job with no sick leave – from periods and pregnancy to perimenopause and beyond. In this episode of Rage on the Rocks, Sarah and Lauren rage about what it’s like to hold down careers, families and the general craziness of life while battling insomnia, hot flushes, brain fog and a medical system that still treats women as “hysterical” or “just stressed”. As always being women, there are glimmers – Medicare shifts, the village of other women, and the unexpected “I don’t give a fuck” superpower that arrives with midlife hormones.
Welcome to Rage on the Rocks, the end of week debrief, where two women grab a drink, drop the filter, and say the things we've been politely swallowing all week. I'm Sarah. I'm Lauren. Woo! And today we are raging about the unpaid full-time job that is living in a female body from periods to menopause and how we're expected to suffer in silence, smile nicely, and still hit our KPIs. So if you have ever tried to function on three hours sleep, a hot flush and a to-do list longer than your patients. This one is for you, ladies. Lauren, it's always such a relief to see you. You are a guaranteed release point in my week where I know my rage will be met with yours. It will be, it will be.
SPEAKER_00And we know that it's the end of the week. Time to let out a big exhale. That's what this is. It's a big exhale. So if you're listening, you got your little bevi, whatever that is, cup of tea, something a bit stronger, take a deep breath and exhale. This is your permission to think about that.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. I love it. What are you drinking today?
SPEAKER_00I'm having a gin and tonic.
SPEAKER_01What are you drinking? Gin and soda for me with added grapefruit, I might add. Uh we're having a Malfi gin today.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_01Uh quite like Malfi. Yeah. Nice. Super refreshing. And I have to say, hang on, one sip. Perfect. We are coming to you today from Stonehouse in Darwin, again run by the beautiful Beck Bullen, who has so kindly lent us this very luxurious space with all the wine.
SPEAKER_00Very nice. We'll make sure we put up photos. You'll be able to see us lounging back in a comfy chair.
SPEAKER_01It's true. And do you know we're going to get this done and dusted in a reasonably tight fashion? I have a sleepover of 12-year-olds to supervise this evening.
SPEAKER_00So yay, but also boo.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's both. Exactly. Before we get into it, firstly, I just want to have a quick shout-out to the women and the men who have reached out this week in response to Rage on the Rocks to give their two cents on the pod. Or five cents sometimes. Sometimes we welcome all currencies. We do not discriminate here. Bitcoin, welcome. Exactly. Exactly. Very kind and lots of ideas about what to rage about. And I love the fact that I'm hearing from men. So good.
SPEAKER_00We we appreciate you all. Yeah. Thank you. Because there is lots of things to rage about at the moment. I mean, I'm just gonna, before we hop into what is a very big topic and I'm looking forward to it. Um, this has been an up and down week for me. Business, you know what it's like. Um, up and down week in terms of work, but also today I got home. There was a truck in my driveway. I couldn't park in my driveway. So I parked on the street and went to get out my shopping. The gentleman got into the truck and left. I realized as he was pulling out that he was Australia Post, and of course, had left a note saying he couldn't deliver the parcels because I wasn't home. No. I was home. I just couldn't park. And also I've had to fill up my tank this week. So oh, that's a lot. It's a time for all of us, isn't it, really?
SPEAKER_01It is a time for all of us. I'm glad you mentioned that because the idea of what's happening worldwide is uh dominating a lot of conversations at the moment in terms of fuel affordability, but also longevity. Absolutely. Yep. So we are thinking about these things. We may we may rage about this in the future.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think there's time left on that one.
SPEAKER_01Unfortunately. I think you're probably right. So let's get into it, Sarah. Okay, thank you. Look, I appreciate you indulging my need to rage about this today. Firstly, I would like to talk about the never-ending shit show that is being in a woman's body and mind. Look, I love being a woman, so please don't get me wrong. Love it. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Love raging about it too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly, exactly. I have had a couple of weeks of perimenopausal hell. So insomnia, you know, the hot flushes at night, feeling on the edge, like emotionally irritable and anxious, exhausted. That has led to things like the impossible choice between I'm not sleeping. So when I can sleep, I sleep a bit extra, which then stops me from going for a swim, which I know I need to exercise in order to feel okay mentally, physically, etc. So it's it's just it's been quite a couple of weeks, I must say, and I'm noticing this cycle coming around more and more. So it made me sort of reflect on, you know, from first period to fertility, pregnancy, birth, postnatal, perimenopause, menopause. There is always something happening in women's bodies. There isn't a decade that you can just have some time off. That's right. Just enjoy it being.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think about that a lot, actually. It's it's true. So, I mean, personally, I would say I'm still adjusting postpartum, which is weird to say because my baby's gonna turn two in, you know, two or three weeks. But it actually takes quite a long time if you breastfeed. And you know, it's funny that you say that because I signed up for a half marathon in October, as you know. My running has been just completely off for weeks, and part of it is just this exhaustion, overheating really quickly, being very in my own head, and just I feel like there's a hormonal element to what's currently happening. And I do the same thing. It's like I, if I can get a decent night's sleep, I prioritize that, which then makes it hard to prioritize the other things that I need to do for myself or that you need to do for you, because that all fits around family, kids, and work, and that's the never-ending challenge for all of us, right? It certainly is. How much did you learn about all of this? Or how much do you feel you were prepared for it? This is a conversation I have with other women in my life. How prepared did you feel for what's actually coming at you?
SPEAKER_01Do you mean right now or across the life spans your life?
SPEAKER_00How often do you feel this is spoken about in any kind of meaningful way with women generally? Or men.
SPEAKER_01Between zero and fuck all, if there's a between there. I got the book on the end of my bed around, you know, the getting your period and starting your cycle. And, you know, this is my my mum did the best she could, and she got nothing. She got less than I did. My mum actually went out and bought a book for me. She did not have that luxury. She was probably going through paramenopause herself. Yeah. Well, we actually talk about this now. She may have said to me, uh, and I I hope I'm not revealing too much, but she may have said to me a couple of weeks ago, yeah, now you know why I was such a bitch for like a decade. So, and I I just all I have is empathy in my heart because it is, it's really hard uh to keep control of that that stuff. It just feels like that from the minute we bleed to the minute we die, there is always something going on with our bodies. And the world's response is basically meh shh manage it quietly, don't make anyone uncomfortable, and just get on with the relentless hassle that is life.
SPEAKER_00Who wants to talk about your blood? Yeah, it's gross, right? Yeah, but also, you know, 50% of the population can't relate to it at all. Right? So, and you'll find that there's an awful lot of the workforce, even women in the health workforce who aren't taught about it in any kind of meaningful way. So it's a real uphill shit fight.
SPEAKER_01It is, it certainly is, and when you see data or research that tells you that there is up to 60 different symptoms of perimenopause, you can understand why things get mistaken or women don't know what's going on, etc. That is a lot to deal with. Now we don't all have 60 at the same time. No, but there are various weird and wonderful combinations of these things going on. And of course, you know, all of this doesn't happen in a quiet season of life, right? Perimenopause in particular. It happens when everything else is completely on fire. You know, at the moment it's it's it's peak life, isn't it? I have children in primary and high school. Uh, you know, you've you're peaking your career, you're earning money. Uh, and for some women, they're looking after elderly or sick parents as well, this so-called sandwich generation. There's so much going on for us that what we really need in that moment is to not know what the hell's happening with our body and our mind. Yeah. It's crazy. Totally.
SPEAKER_00And to feel more tired and to feel, yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00More unwell, more unadjusted.
SPEAKER_01And there, I'm glad to say that there is research that tells us that it is having a massive impact on women, and particularly in their work. You know, if we're peak career at this point, often high leadership roles, high pressure jobs as well, women can feel the need to cut back their role, uh, reduce responsibility in their role, step back, leave work entirely because of things like, you know, brain fog, not being able to concentrate well, just generally feeling like shit all the time. So I feel like that's really it's hard for women out there in this stage.
SPEAKER_00It really is. It really is. And I want to give a shout out to Emily Callandrilly, who I know as Emily from Emily's Wonder Lab because I've got a six-year-old girl. Um, amazing scientist, and went up to space and were heavily uh sexualized for some of her videos that she put out about going to space, but that's a whole other conversation for another day. Today, she actually put up a reel on her Facebook page about all the things that she's done while she's been bleeding, and it was epic stuff by any standard, you know, going to space, going into a submarine, like all these things that amazing things that she's done. And I think that is actually a really empowering message because it's not easy. And to our sisters out there who have endo, PECOS, all these other sorts of things that come with just having their period where it we're not even talking about getting to pre-perimenopause, perimenopause, postpartum, any of that. It's just the monthly cycle is different, painful, you know, unbearable, who are still turning up, showing up every day and being their amazing selves. It's it just shows you how tough women are, really.
SPEAKER_01I wish we didn't have to be that tough. Exactly, but you touched on that, right? We have to be because what are the alternatives? We are not in workplaces that are designed to be lenient. You know, workplaces are designed around standard male bodies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and people joke about things like menstrual leave, right? Because it's menstrual leave just sounds so soft. And it's literally, you know, if a man experienced some of the things that some women are going through on a monthly basis and have done since they were 12, there would be menstrual leave.
SPEAKER_01Well, I feel like there'd be a royal commission and a public holiday, actually.
SPEAKER_00Probably, yeah, like a monthly one. Yeah, absolutely. Why not? Because lie in bed with your hot water bottle and watch some Netflix and eat some chocolate and take some painkillers, stay at home.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Exactly. Don't come in, blokes. Don't come in. And, you know, looking at things like menopausal symptoms, you know, reduced uh it's linked to reduced productivity and more sick days. Now there are some workplaces now introducing things like, you know, days off for menopausal leave, things, things like that, but it is only at the beginning of this conversation. Absolutely. Yeah. Certainly not like they're still the same hours, the same expectations. There are some companies also that allow their employees to design their working months around the cycle and what we know happens in a cycle. So this idea of, you know, early in the cycle, you're you're much more likely to sort of, and I'm talking about after, say, the bleeding ends. So that sort of menstrual phase, you're you're going into a phase where you're perhaps starting to get some energy back and maybe less lethargy, all of that. You're feeling like you want to go out, talk to clients a little bit more, maybe you're in the office more, you reach that sort of peak phase. And that second half of that cycle is more the coming back in, the lower energy perhaps, the time when we want to be a little more bunkered in, if you know what I mean, a little bit more reflective. And perhaps that our working cycles can work to that as well. So that's the time we might do our report writing and you know, work from home potentially. Yep. Do your more strategic stuff. Exactly. Yeah. So aligning with some of those characteristics of the seasons of the cycle as well.
SPEAKER_00I just I mean, which in terms of fitness, um, I mean, they're again still very early in the conversation, I think, about fitness and sport and weightlifting and all the things that we should be doing, particularly as women, to make sure our bones are strong and that we're aging as well as we can be. So there's an excellent book called RAW by Stacy Sims, and she talks about hormones and trining cycles. And again, though, that's great for the women and the men, and there are some great male trainers out there who have read the book and are sharing that with their female clients and their um female groups, but there is still not enough knowledge out there about how this impacts women. I mean, there was an ultra marathoner who was breastfeeding her baby along the way, and my first thought was just like the hydration level that you would have to have to be able to do a marathon and breastfeed your baby. Didn't you win? I as well. Yeah, yeah. Good lord. But think about your calorie needs, your hydration needs just for your body to function, let alone to feed a baby, and then outperforming everyone else athletically. Absolutely mind-boggling to me.
SPEAKER_01And the logistics of feeding.
SPEAKER_00The logistics. Huge.
SPEAKER_01My goodness. As you were talking as well about, you know, a good book. Alyssa Viddy, I think, is she's an American, I believe she trained in medicine and then was having sort of cycle and fertility issues of her own. I I think she struggles with POS as well. She has a whole, she's got an app called Flow. She's got a book out, and she talks a lot about cycle syncing all through a woman's uh lifespan. So the importance of what it is we're eating and the exercise that we do, the way we think and the activities that we carry out as well through our cycle and how it sort of matches those seasons of the cycle. So And there's four phases.
SPEAKER_00So if you're only learning some of these things for the first time, which is not unusual, unfortunately, there are lots of things out there that you can go and read that will teach you more about what's going on in your body. Because knowledge is power, and we all wish we were given this in a more meaningful way as we grow up, but we're not. And we're now we are the generation that's got the ability to help prepare our daughters and our sons with the knowledge of what actually life is like and what changes are going to come in their bodies.
SPEAKER_01One thing I think about having daughters as well is moving away from this shameful element of what happens with women too. And and I don't want to sugarcoat it because you know what? It's bloody tough from it doesn't matter if you're a teenager right through. Yeah. Um exactly. It really, it really is. And I I don't want to do that, but I do want to show them that it doesn't have to be some sort of awful death sentence that you know they they hate themselves over it or they can't stand their body.
SPEAKER_00You also don't want young girls growing up with a lot of pain and a lot of discomfort and thinking this is what everyone goes through. That was my experience. It's terrible. It's terrible that that's still happening to girls that they just go, well, just got to put up and shut up because this is what all women go through.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And quick plug for traditional Chinese medicine that changed my life in terms of cycle stuff. Just amazing. Many, many years of terrible cycle, lots of pain, lots of lethargy, and just going, oh, this is just how it is. It's always been this way from when I was 13 years of age. And then discovering actually it's not like that. It doesn't have to be like that for some women. And it was my saviour. So, but you know what? That also brings up an interesting point about our Western medicine point of view and how unhelpful that has been for me over the years because of how ill-informed some of our Western medical professionals seem to be. Thinking about now, we have mentioned this in a previous podcast, this idea of hysteria. I'm coming down to thinking of cycles in terms of she's such a bitch or she's just stressed or she's being hysterical. PMS. She's got PMS. What a horrible person. Fun fact hysteria and uh hysterectomy both came from the Greek word for uterus. So I did look this up after our conversation. So for centuries, medicine has literally blamed women's supposed craziness on their uteruses. Let that one sink in for a little bit. Yep, by the way. And it was used a lot, the hysteria piece was used a lot as sort of this catch-all diagnosis for any woman that was sad, angry, sexualized, or traumatized, or just non-compliant and unlikable, really. Big umbrella. Big umbrella. I know. So have we really have we really come further? I mean, no. We haven't. And you mentioned in a previous podcast about how women's pain is taken less seriously, absolutely, undertreated compared to men for these sorts of things. And we do have reports saying that there is a massive knowledge gap for GPs in this country around this area.
SPEAKER_00You even look at the symptoms for heart attacks for women. And that's pretty hard going to read as well, because you think anxiety is a symptom of a lot of other things. It leads to an awful lot of dismissal of what else is going on for a woman. It it seems like the solution is often the solution. It seems like that's the problem we're solving. Whereas it's often a symptom of lots of other things. And then women get painted as this anxious woman. And they might be an anxious woman. There might be plenty of reasons beyond the anxiety itself that is a byproduct of something else that's much more serious. And that happens and women get dismissed. And it's a knowledge, it's a knowledge problem. It's an attitude problem for sure, but it's also a knowledge problem. It exists across many facets of our health system. So you think about that in a heart attack sense, you think about it in a mental health sense, you think about it in a neurodiversity sense for women. How often things are missed, undertreated conversations just don't happen because in some cases it's medical professionals going, that doesn't exist. That's not a thing. You know, this is what it is. I know it's anxiety, I know it's I've seen it before. And the research just hasn't kept up even now.
SPEAKER_01And on the flip side to that is how over-medicalized birth is. Yes, true. Which for and I, you know, Western medicine has saved many women, so I'm definitely not poo-pooing that. Definitely not. However, birth itself isn't a medical event.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_01Now it can turn into one. Yes. For sure. But there are lots of examples where women have been traumatized through the process of birth that has come about from medical trauma. And intervention. Intervention, absolutely. And it wasn't that long ago that women had no choices and they were put under general anesthetic to give a baby and had no choice. That's how it worked. When was that? The 50s, I would like to think. Yeah, not that long ago. Yeah. So there's a there's a control piece, perhaps, here. There's quite possibly a piece around, you know, women just don't know. Where the experts here?
SPEAKER_00I think it breeds a bit of distrust in the system as well. So you can look at this both ways, right? There is a free birthing movement, and elements of the free birthing movement, I would say, are actually quite dangerous. It's very easy, though, to prey on a fear that you are not going to be heard in the hospital system. If you want to have a natural birth, you're not going to be able to have a natural birth and they're going to force you to do XYZ. It sets women up to feel like they're going into battle when they give birth. And I know that I wanted to have a V back, so I had a cesarean with Evelyn. Yep. I knew that I wanted to attempt to have a vaginal birth after C-section. Didn't happen because both of my girls were like, hello, I'm going to be breached. And I made decisions. I made decisions that were right for us based on that. But I went into that conversation ready to have a fight. And you know what? They were totally supportive. But I think there's just this past experiences of the system and past experiences of other women that other women have had in the system. You know, I think things are slowly catching up and there are better conversations being had now, but we don't share them as much. But it is. I agree that it is still very much when can we induce you? These are the these are the days that we have available to induce you or do your C-section. There is that kind of pressure of going down the medical route.
SPEAKER_01I think one of the points in all of these conversations is the taking women seriously piece at their word. This is what I'm experiencing, this is what I want, this is the help I'm seeking. Plus having people around us that actually know what's going on, having professionals that are adequately trained and interested to actually get to the bottom of what's going on as well. And helping women, helping to empower us to feel like we can you can't control things, but feeling like we can have some power in this whole process because there's so much that's out of our control. Which you should in all of this. Patient-centred care, you would. Yes. That's an excellent point in theory. I love it. In theory, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I I think, you know, for so long, this has been such a women's health stuff. We can't talk about it. If we are talking about it, it's because I'm an expert and I'll have my say over what I think. And we just need to find better balance here. We need more respect for women in this process, more respect for their experiences, what they're going through, and hopefully over time, a little bit more information and support. I've got some glimmers. Is it time to share glimmers? I think so. I think I don't want to rage too much about this stuff. I have been pretty cranky, I must say. So, glimmers. I have three major ones. First one, totally geeky. It's a policy glimmer.
SPEAKER_00Oh. We love a policy glimmer.
SPEAKER_01Some of us love a policy glimmer. And this is great for women that don't know, but if you go to the GP and you want to talk about something to do with menopause that you're experiencing, you can get a rebate. That's a menopause rebate. Cool. It hurts, isn't it? I love that. Thank you, Labour government, right now. And it's it's only kind of new, I'd say in the last year. Okay. But you know, there's recognition right there, right? So I love that. It's it's an acknowledgement that this is real and it's worth resourcing. Great.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01We don't have to just toughen up, Princess. That's kind of nice. The second glimmer is the village glimmer for me. Is I love at the moment what I'm finding. And this is reflective of the conversation you were having about what happened when we were younger, maybe when no one spoke about anything, or you just got a book on the end of the bed. Now I'm finding women are talking more about this stuff to each other. You can turn up, you can say, I feel like absolute crap, and this is why. And women will give you, oh my God, same, or I feel you, and you'll get a nice bit of dark humor, hopefully. And rather than someone turning around and telling you to, I don't know, drink more water, do some yogurt, and eat kale. You know, there's a village space here. And then the final one is the personal glimmer for me, is the perimenopausal I don't give a fuck phase. That is hitting me strong currently, which I'm grateful that sits alongside all the other shit that goes with it. But basically, I care less about being liked, care less about how I'm turning up. I'm I'm still cognizant of the role that I'm in at the time, so I can totally be professional about it. But I don't feel the need to perform. Authenticity is really important for me. I care more about being rested and respected and honest. And if you don't like it, then you're not my person. It's really that simple.
SPEAKER_00We love that. Right? Yes, yes, yes. I'm I will say I am in that phase of life too. Uh, not the perimenopausal phase of life necessarily, but definitely in this, it's a bit sticky. It's not always a glimmer. I have to be honest. This, like I'm leaning in and relaxing into myself more and being unapologetic about it. It doesn't always work out really well. But again, they're not my people, they're not my opportunities, that's not my space, and that's okay. So yeah, I am feeling really good about that too. I totally agree. Women connect with each other about these. We've got our own little covens that talk about these things, you know, and you find them when you're breastfeeding at 3 a.m. in the morning. And, you know, you find your people through these times in your life. Women are really good at it. Um, Mon at the Last Supper, where we have previously done a podcast episode, runs peri parties. So that's super cool. And there are some women around town who are doing information sessions about paramenopause and work. And so I really love that that women are going, well, hey, there's actually an opportunity here for my business, my professional self to turn up and help other women navigate this space. And that's pretty awesome. So I think if you're listening and you know some people doing some really good stuff in this space around just making workplaces more supportive of life, breastfeeding is another one, but we're not going to go back there. Um, there's a whole other episode: breastfeeding and workplace and appropriate spaces. But if you know people who are doing really awesome stuff, really good policies, people who are out there creating supportive spaces, educational spaces, let us know. We'd like love to explore that more and give them more of a shout out. And my other glimmer is that Sarah and I actually do another podcast with two other fabulous women, Sally and Bron. And to give you an overview, I guess, of the background of the four of us, I come at things from a community leadership and then a political leadership lens. Sarah, you and Bron probably come at it from more of a practice-led lens. And Sal is policy guru. She is policy, is her jam. And so we talk about systems really from a multi-perspective compassion-centered way, and we want to be having conversations about how we put community back at the center of systems. So if you're into that, and a bit more of a serious conversation doesn't involve a GT or a just soda, um, have a look at the Bold Heart Collective. We're not a weekly pod or even a monthly pod. We're just um, you know, when we can get the four of us together and there's something that we really, really want to talk about as a community, we will uh we'll put an episode out. So Bold Heart Collective, go and subscribe and obviously subscribe to us here as well. Let us know what your glimmers are and what your rages are. And thank you for all your feedback. Thanks everyone. Rage on. Rage on.
