The Greatest Love Story of All

Female friendship is the love story nobody really nails. This isn't the "queens supporting queens" version (as much as we love it), it's just the real one. 

Adult friendships, the slow fades that can hurt worse than breakups, the friend you've outgrown but can't bring yourself to move away from. The group chat dynamics that are basically a full-time job (unpaid of course).

Plus the unspoken truth: these women are the most consistent, alive, mutual relationships in our lives. They're the love story...and we should probably say that more.

And a closing glimmer on the new perimenopause and menopause campaign, because the women who walk you through the third act deserve their flowers.

Pour something strong, open your group chat, and remember it's made you want to lob your phone into the ocean at least once. Welcome to Rage on the Rocks.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Okay, so here's the thing. We're gonna talk about female friendship today, which I know sounds like every other podcast hosted by two women with wine or water in our case today, but hear us out because we are not doing the Queen supporting Queens, My Girls, everything, blessed to have my tribe version of this conversation. We're doing the real one. The one where you can love your best friend and you've cried in the bathroom about her. The one where you'd take a bullet for the group chat and you've left it on red for four days because you couldn't deal. The one where your friendships are the most important in your life and also the hardest thing to maintain. Because here's what nobody told us. Somewhere between 28 and now, friendship stopped being a thing that just happened and started being a thing that you actually had to do. And it's hard and it's griefy, and it's quietly actually the love story of our lives that we don't even talk about properly. So welcome, Sarah.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Oh, I feel welcomed after all that. I feel like this is going to be a big one.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I feel like this is gonna be a big one too. So we should talk about where we are today.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

We should. If we have a moment of silence of us, you'll be able to hear the birds. We are at the Botanic Gardens here in Darwin. It's amazing. On a Thursday afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

We're um, what are we doing? Grounding. We take our shoes off and just feel the earth. Is that what we're doing? No, that's not what we're doing. But we are here, we're parked under a beautiful tree, and we can't tell if the tree or birds are shitting on us or it's half-eaten berries or what it is, but it's very relaxing. We're very in touch with nature today. And look, we have been chatting prior to this show about the female friendships in our life and how significant they are and how they change over time. And so, Sarah, do you want to kick us off with this?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Sure. Look, the thing about this one, Lauren, when we were originally talking about friendships, is I think for me, you know, you have friendships at school, friendships into high school, when friendship starts to get really important in those teenage years. You know, the peer influence sort of takes over and you can develop some of those friendships that then go on to last for a lifetime. And then I think when did friendships get absolutely essential? For me, it was when I had children, they became absolutely essential. And then another evolution of that was when probably I went through separation and divorce, and then again at the hormonal, like perimenopausal stage too, at these major life milestones or transitions, friendships became sometimes a lifeline. That's sort of my reflection so far in the trajectory, and sort of going from big lots of friendships, so lots of friends, through to a much more intimate group of friends. So there's been a culling over time, but also the depth has changed over that time as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

The culling is not literal, by the way, if anyone's listening.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I hope not anyway. I have not committed a crime that I'm willing to discuss in this podcast. But yeah, I think so. I don't know, can we discuss perhaps the longevity friendships and how important they are, the ones that sort of see us through every evolution of ourselves as we progress through life?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yeah, and I think that's really interesting now because social media adds a whole different layer to longevity of relationships somewhat, because I think it uh lulls you into some false sense of being in touch with people because you know what they're up to because you see them on social media in a way that you probably wouldn't have done, well, you definitely wouldn't have done 20 odd years ago. So it keeps you much more in touch with a larger group of people, but I certainly know for me I've got a very small group of friends, really, and quite a few of them are from high school days, up the hill here at Darwin High School, and they have seen just about every version of me, you know, at my best, at my worst, with the 22 out partying, or having children, breakups, living together, going traveling together, you know, and then going, is this my hormones, or you know, pregnancy loss, all of that, you have some people in your life that have seen it all, and I think that is such a special connection to have with someone as well. When when you've grown together though, because you can do that and grow apart, but when you find that person and you just love every version of that person, that's pretty special.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yes, and I think sometimes in some of these harder points in our life, the connecting with people that have known us for a long time, there's a familiarity there that I think becomes really important. I've I think I've yet to articulate what it is, but there's a deep knowing perhaps between the two of you where it becomes okay for that person to see you at your worst and for you to be able to lean on them and know that they're not disappearing tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And they also just have a different perspective on your strengths than you would have because they've seen what you carry through that whole period of time as well, which is interesting. But yeah, I'm very proud of a lot of the women who were once girls in my circle, who are just they're amazing and open, and I can not speak to some of them for a really long time, and then you know, when you do, it's just like no time's passed at all, which is the best, the best.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

And I am a woman that, as uh in my childhood and then throughout my 20s, I moved around a lot, so different states, different countries coming and going here and there, and I have accumulated a group of women that I probably experience at various levels of depth and vulnerability.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

There's a group of women having a very good time in the background. I feel like that's good one near women.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

So there's these groups of women that I have accumulated over my lifetime, many of them don't know each other. And I know some of them at various depths of vulnerability, but they are the type of people where you cannot speak to them for two years, you come back, nothing has changed, they're there for you if you want to have a chat, and there's something about connecting in with who we once were as individuals and as friends that is also deeply comforting during times. Absolutely. There's something really magic about that.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, connects you with your youth to the time when we were young, when I didn't have grey hair, all of those things. Yeah, I've and I feel often there's some of my friends that I can be the most playful with as well. And how important it is to be playful. Play is so important. Play is so important. So moving forward, I think talking about the group of women that you become close to because it's 3 a.m. and there's other women who are up at 3am, and sometimes they're not even people that you're particularly close to, but they just know you know, and it's almost like you have this secret club that comes out when you're breastfeeding or settling a baby at stupid hours of the morning. And I drew so much comfort from some of those just really lovely messages and conversations, and just knowing that there were people who would be happy to have a chat at that time in the morning because they'd be up to wondering why their nipples were screaming out in pain, or you know, knowing that it's really difficult to settle a baby sometimes, and you're just at your wit's end and don't know what to do. That it's almost just like this little secret club.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah, I spent my early days with babies really in the company of women that understood chronic sleep deprivation, and I can't tell you how much I needed that knowing that knowingness in my life.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Shared experience.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah, it really was. And you know, we call it building your village like it's a sort of Pinterest project, but it's actually just sleep-deprived women running a 24-hour crisis helpline. Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yep, it's group group therapy, yeah, group support.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

And we need it. And interestingly, here, you know, there's been a study by Webster and colleagues in 2011. They found that women with low social support after childbirth were more likely to experience postnatal depression and poorer quality of life than well-supported women. So we require this. This is it's such an important part of our lives when you're in that space with you know new babies and children.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Absolutely, and that it doesn't really go away then, does it? Because then you've got children who go into childcare, and then you're and well, you've probably got mothers' groups and things like that before, but I mean I was never part of any of those groups because I had a baby in 2020, uh, which is COVID, and I was a minister, so um my partner stayed at home with the baby, and there's very few groups that cater to fathers who are staying home with babies, and I just didn't make those connections, but I recognise that they are really important to a lot of women who are just getting used to those first six months, which happen rapidly, and babies make all sorts of weird noises and roll off couches, and you know, well, these are the things people are sharing, right? Like, and your body's changing still, and you really need that group that you can just go and not brush your hair and chat to. So I recognise that's really important, but then it goes into kind of childcare and you're meeting families there, and then it goes into school. When I mean you would know this much better than me. Hello, Bush Bush Turkey. Um, you would know this much better than I would, where it you then are talking to our parents about coordinating various things for your mini overlords.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And then that's what your friendship is.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, exactly. So you've sort of gone from this space where it's all about survival. These women around you are about survival in a really tough period of your life.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Personally, because it's about what's happening with your body, it's about sleep, it's about adjusting to a new identity as a woman, as a mother, all the things, learning a new skill set. Good lord, there's so much to learn. I still remember when my mother had to remind me that the baby's feet were cold and maybe they need some socks, and it just did not occur to me at the time. Or leaving the house without nappies because I hadn't formed the habit yet. Um, so being able to rock up in a place where you know your girlfriend has a coffee waiting for you, and you can sit down and just be a sleep-deprived, crazy person from time to time. That was about survival. Yeah, and I think it didn't matter that I didn't know these women well, we were right in the thick of the same stage of our life, and that was enough. In fact, it was perfect because it wasn't the people that had known me forever that was going to get me through that space at that time. I needed the knowing. Um, so yes, then we move on to sort of school and the logistics of all of that. So the village that comes for a bit and then stays a bit longer, it becomes you know, the backbone of sort of family life. Uh, they're the school pick-up mums and dads. I will put dads in there, of course. Yeah, uh, you know, the ones that uh become emergency contact people. And I'm thinking as well about families that live in places like I certainly did where you don't have family.

unknown 12:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

These other families become your family.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

It happens a lot up here. People's families are interstate um or overseas, and so they don't have someone who can pick up the kids if you're stuck at work or there's an emergency. So you really do lean into your circle here.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, as a slight patriarchy rage point as well, I love my circle of our parent friends, and the dads are certainly part of that circle, but it is the women organizing everything.

unknown 13:25

Of course it is.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

So they are in the group chat, they will respond and they will be part of a pickup, but they're not really initiating the conversations. That is all the women, they're all over it.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Um, so so how invested are they in the friendship part of it? Not very the blokes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Oh, it's I don't think it's about the friendship for them, it's the logistical piece. Having said that, you know, there are there are group women friendships that are certainly they can form the logistical part of managing a family at that point in their life where there's you know primary school age children or high school children, whatever. It doesn't mean that the friendships are deep between women. Yeah, it might mean they're extremely reliable and extremely necessary, and you can love these people because of the village that they form around you all, but they're not necessarily people that you go to when you're having a breakdown. They still need to be your people in some respects. I find that very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

It is very interesting, isn't it? So, what for you what makes a person that person?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Oh, that is a great question.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

It's a good one for snap thinking on as we record, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, it is. Look, I think as I have gotten older, my quest for deeper friendships, deeper levels of vulnerability has become more required, I guess. And I require that of other people in order to access the depths of me. So I can have different layers of friendship. I am more than happy to be the logistical friend that helps out with children. I can be the necessary person that someone can call and say, I am stuck at work, will you go and pick up my child? No problem, I'm there. In terms of then being able to have a deeper friendship where you can actually help someone through a really difficult time of their lives, they've got to have really great self-awareness, they've got to be willing to be vulnerable and feel like you're going to hold them in a way that acknowledges their trust that they're putting in you. You've got to have really great reflective skills, and to be honest, not everyone does, or not everyone wants to have that relationship with me as well. You know, we all choose our people. We do.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, we do. Yeah, and I think that's part of trust too, isn't it? It's as you get older, I think, requiring requiring a level of mutual vulnerability becomes about trust. I think you learn over time. You can't be the person who's being vulnerable all the time and not getting that back. That doesn't feel trusting, but also you don't want to be vulnerability dumping. No, does that make sense? Vulnerability dumping on somebody else all the time either. Um, you want something that feels balanced and reciprocal. Yeah. And there's many factors to that over time that make it harder to do that at certain points in your life, and those friends with the longevity will know that. Um, but if yeah, if you're not getting vulnerability back from someone ever, that would have me questioning how invested they were in the friendship too. And that's cool because you don't have to have a close relationship with everyone.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

No, that that's absolutely right, and lots of things get in the way for people when it comes to vulnerability. You know, their attachment styles and patterns, survival strategies that they've had from childhood. There are so many things that get in the way. I think for me, I have been on a personal development quest for years and years and years, which has led through therapy and podcasts and books and all sorts of various ways of developing myself. And inevitably, it has to lead to a place where you learn what vulnerability is and you choose to go there or not. Some people will never choose to go there. Perhaps they can't, it's too painful, there's trauma, there's lots of things that sit in that space. For me, for close friendship, it is an absolute must and requirement. And at times, that vulnerability, though painful, is a lifesaver. It absolutely is. You know, take us to the most important parts of our life. And if I can jump through to, you know, a big milestone for me was separating and leaving my marriage.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

And there were a small number of absolutely vital women in my life that got me through at a time when I really, really needed it. From my friend Katie, shout out Katie, who would deliver sleeping pills at nine o'clock at night through the door of her car. She would drive into my street and I would come out because I wasn't sleeping. I was really stressed about everything. Uh, you know, through to friends that would pick up the children and take them somewhere while I was moving house, for example. Through to my mum, who has certainly grown with me in yes, she's my mother, she is my parent, but she's grown into this incredible friend in my life as well that provided me with the emotional support that I required through the most difficult time of my life. How lucky have I been in that space? Uh and they've all had to show a level of vulnerability that I have very much appreciated because I felt I was raw at that time. Uh, and I had to have people in my life that could handle me being raw.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And had capacity where you didn't have capacity at that time. Absolutely. And allow you to not have that capacity. Yeah.

unknown 19:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Because you've got a little safety net of some awesome people.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, I have been very fortunate in that space. And actually, afterwards, when the dust settled, etc. I had moved out and things were a lot calmer, had a little dinner party for some of my favourite people. Not all of them could be there, because not all of them are in the Northern Territory. But it was an opportunity to say thank you and actually articulate how meaningful it was for me, the support that they gave me during that time. I've got to say, it was a night, it was a it was such a beautiful night. Boy, there were many tears, lots of gratitude, and lots more sharing and vulnerability. It was quite extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah. That's an amazing thing. Yeah, and I feel like the older that I get, the more I'm building those sorts of connections with women as well. Occasionally, men. Not leaving you out there, male friends. I've got some very close male friends who generally are also very in touch with their own emotions and vulnerabilities, which is very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

It is helpful. Um, and shout out to mine too. You know who you are because I know you listen because you tell me that you listen to this podcast. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

I don't even know who you are, but you know, you're great. And yeah, you you do need those people in your life. And I've spoken about it before when you, you know, going through a massive transition, and the first thing that I wanted to do was reach out to a number of women that I didn't even necessarily know particularly well. Um, not all of them, some of them I did. And I just knew that I could be open and ask questions and that they would just receive me with care. And that was what I needed, and they're some of the most beautiful relationships that I have. And so, in putting together this episode when we were thinking about it and talking about it, it really did get me thinking about that female friendship being the real love story, right? We talk so much about romantic connections, and people are very focused on that, meeting the love of your life and doing all of those things. And what if the love of our lives is actually the woman who's picks up the phone when you just need to have a chat? Texts you once every Few months just to because they've seen something funny that reminds them of you, you know. I've got a friend and sometimes I'm out and about and I'll hear Silverchair and it just make reminds me of when we used to just you know go to silverchair concerts and just love life and we didn't have children then, but we were just kind of carefree and loving our rock music, loving the Veronicas, and so occasionally but you know occasionally we won't have spoken for 12 months, but you'll just get a little loving, I'm thinking of you, type of message. And I think the older you get the more important that is. It's not part of those relationships that you're maintaining in terms of looking after your kids and your significant other if you've got one, and you know, I just think it's a very different relationship.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

It is a different relationship, and for me, they are not draining relationships.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

No.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Even during times when it's time to reciprocate the care if someone's going through something. Yeah. If they certain friends in particular going through something big, calling me or texting me, text messages, or can you read over this document? Can you tell me what you think about this and that? None of that is draining. I I want to be there for them. And it's those moments that then deepen our friendship again. And we get these. I I love Brene Brown, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Meanwhile.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

And when two I wish she was our friend. Brene, come be our friend. And I have a I have a friend who's done her training who is one of my very good friends. Shout out to Jen. We talk about marble jar friends quite a lot. The ones that continually put marbles in that jar through small acts all the time. And it could be over a long period of time, it could be a short period of time. Some of the most meaningful friendships I have at the moment, I have not had for long, but they have certainly gone deep quickly and proved themselves. And I hope I have also, right? But these marble jar friends for me now in my late 40s, throw in a divorce, throw in some perimenopause, some you know, busy life stage that I'm in with the children, with career, with my PhD, so much going on. And I do not have time for shallow friendships or ones where people drain me. You heard it here first.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

So speaking of, let's just touch briefly on culling relationships because you have brought this up before. I have. And I think that it's really interesting because some people find it really, really hard to break up with relationships of all kinds that are not good for you. You know, and friendships included. And you have said previously that's not particularly hard for you. So I think for people listening, people listening, she doesn't mean you. You're not, you're not on the cull list. But can you just talk to us about that and what you think other people should be applying to their own lives in terms of making sure that you are continually surrounded by people that you feel supported by and support that it's reciprocal?

SPEAKER_00 25:37

First of all, I would like to put the idea of friendship shrinkflation out there. And some of it happens through sort of natural selection and some of it.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

The slow fade. That's right. The slow fade away.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

It's kind of sad though, you're like, we didn't fight. Where'd they go? No, that's right. Uh natural selection, and some of it happens quite deliberately, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Well, that's the bit I'm interested in.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Okay, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I mean there's the s everybody has the the slow fade away over time, but yeah, we outgrow each other, it's not serving us anymore.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. That's okay. And this is this point around some people are in your life for a reason or a season. Right? And then that's okay. And we bid them farewell and we say, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Something like that. All the best. That's right. Uh, so yes, I think when I was younger, my friendship life looked more like a buffet and now it's more like a selected cheese board, but only the very best teasers from places that are very high quality. What can I say? So, in terms of the culling piece, look, I think I can be pretty honest, and I would like to hear from women in similar life stage and hormonal stages myself, that the rage that comes with uh perimenopause sometimes and the sheer effort it takes to feel good more often than feeling like shit, yeah, means that it's actually much easier to cul because I it's like a reckoning where you have to say to yourself, where am I going to put my energy? when I have to deliberately put energy into feeling the best person I can so I can show up for the most important parts of my life. My children, my job, so I can continue earning money. For me, my research is a third one, and of course, I want to show up for my excellent friends, right? They're the ones that get me through. So I can let some friendships go and they just go quiet, and that's okay. Some people don't go as quietly, so it does it does take a conversation sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

It is a friendship breakup.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

See, it is love, it is totally totally love, but what I quite like, going back to Brene because I know you love Brene so much, is and I have used this before, we get into these people-pleasing spirals, right? Now we this is a whole episode by itself. It is we will talk people-pleasing, I have so much to say. But in terms of maintaining these sort of friendships or acquaintanceships, you can take a page out of Brene's book when she says, When you meet someone out on the street or you run into them at school or wherever it is, and they say something like, Hey, we should catch up. What do we always say? Yes, let's do that, or let's have a coffee next week or whatever. Instead of saying that, we take a moment to pause, we sh come into our knowing, we sink down into ourselves and we ask the question, does this person fill me up? Is this an energy producer or sustainer, or is this an energy drainer? If they are an energy drainer, what you do is you smile politely, you allow the silence to be awkward, and then you say, see ya, and you walk the fuck away. Oh my god, Sarah's brutal.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Don't ever do that to me. I'll know. I'll be like, oh, it's happening. I'm giving away my phone. And you know, shout out to my friends. When uh when we say we need to catch up and then we can never find a weekend, um, that's not the like we're not actually trying to avoid each other. We just literally can't seem to manage it. And then we get together like a couple of times a year and it's magic, and we say we should do this more often, and then the next thing doesn't happen. I I am not doing this because I will tell you I am very bad at doing what Sarah just described so easily. And I I really have much respect.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

I don't get it right all the time, don't get me wrong, I fuck it up.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I can imagine it doesn't always go.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I go home and go, fuck, what have I agreed to? Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

But look, and there is data to support this as well. Uh Bleisner and Colleagues, 2019, on friendship in later life concluded that supportive friendships are linked to better well-being while strained or conflict-based relationships can harm your health. I mean, there's no surprises there, right? That's true. But I think what we need to do as women, because we are very busy people constantly thinking of other people, doing all the things, we don't take that moment to pause, sink into ourselves, and Glenn and Doyle refers to it as her knowing, spending that extra second, getting in touch with what is my body feeling in this moment about this friendship, about this person. You know, what is my best next step here? You know, do I want to maintain this?

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

And if we could just do that a little bit, we might make some better choices. And you can be kind about it. It doesn't have to be this awful, you know, people say, Oh, I don't like confrontation. It's not confrontation, it's about being clear and kind, and that's a good thing too, right? What do you reckon?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

It just sounds a lot like a relationship, it is a relationship, therefore proving our point. I think. I love it. I agree, I love it, and with that being said, I think we have a lot more that we could talk about here, but I think we're going to go to our glimmer for the week. And we have a shared glimmer, and I'm gonna give a shout out here to Monica, who is cavorting around the world currently, having an awful time. And she uh linked to this new menopause plan, this campaign, the federal government is behind it, and we are here to say, good job, Australian government. Good job. I mean, you know, we've got to give credit where credit's due. It's very easy to criticize governments and government policy and various things. This is it's time. It's long beyond time, should have happened previously, but this is pretty good. So there's been some big changes that have happened around the peramenopause, menopause, post-menopause stages over very recent years. And this campaign, which is going across a whole range of different mediums, and there is a website. It's called it's on the health.gov.au website and it's understanding perimenopause and menopause. So if this is something that you're going through yourself or that you're just interested in, which all of us should be, let's face it, go and have a look because it does talk about what the different stages are of menopause, but also when you might want to go and see a doctor and what your treatment options are, all the things that you just never get taught until you hit that stage and you find your next secret group of women. Let's be real. Because that's the other stage of your life, as you said earlier, where you start to go, is this sweating because I'm hitting paramenopause? What even are the symptoms of perimenopause? And all of a sudden, all your beautiful fairy godmothers come out and say, Here, come under my wing and I will help you, based on my own personal experience, because there's no fucking other thing out there. So here, there's a campaign. Yep, it's the next step, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

It is a good one, and I will say about friendships in that stage is that we are far less quiet than friendships in the other stage. We come out and we talk about how fucked up perimenopause can be. But you know, the other side to it is that we have said before it makes you be incredibly honest about everything. So, so another great friendship circle. But yes, we absolutely have to celebrate this. So if you are a woman at that stage of your life, it's a great opportunity now. You can connect in, it's you know, there's Medicare rebates, there's stuff around the PBS. It's brilliant, it's finally putting something out there that 50% of the population will go through at some point in their life anyway.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

And that the other 50% will be connected to somebody that's right, is connected to somebody who will experience this. So, you know, I think it's really important for everyone. And with that, and the sun doing its beautiful golden hour thing here in Darwin's dry season, I'm gonna suggest that you maybe pour yourself another something. Another glass of water, glass of wine, whiskey, whatever's taking your fancy, and text the friend that you love. Maybe leave the other one on read just a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Exactly. And thinking about our friendships, relationships in general in life, how we are told as women, as I watch my girls sometimes ask each other to marry each other and talk about when they're gonna get married when they get older. We are told to chase our soulmates. But look around. You know, who actually knows your soul in all its versions and who still shows up? And those friendships, the deep ones, the logistical ones, the ones that survived the culls, might just be the real love story, baby. And tending them to, tending to them, sorry, is not indulgent. It's absolutely essential to our health and well being. So, rage on, ladies.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Rage on.