Thoughts and Prayers - Four Women in Four Days, a National Crisis

Content Warning: This episode of the pod talks about domestic and family violence and homicide. 1800 RESPECT is available 24/7 for support, with more information about support here: https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/family-and-domestic-violence

Last week, four women died in alleged domestic and family violence related homicide. Once again, it's been named a national crisis. How do we stop talking at cross purposes, and truly address the issue? 

Referenced in the episode is OurWatch's resource 'How to prevent violence against women'.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Rage on the Rocks, where we are officially out of the thoughts and prayers and firmly into the okay, but what are we actually doing? This week we're talking about four women and girls killed in four days by men and boys who knew them. A mum in Melbourne, a mum in Queensland, a teenage girl in regional Australia, a 17-year-old girl in the Northern Territory. Four funerals, four families, and four alleged killers drawn from their own circles, partners, ex-partners, boys they knew. And it reminded us of the phrase that you often hear in the US around mass shootings in schools, thoughts and prayers. And we thought about whether or not we are doing the exact same version, but the Australian version, when it comes to domestic and family violence against women, headlines, hashtags, vigils, and then back to normal, which apparently is a woman killed every few days by a man she knows. So today we're talking about what's happening, why it's happening, why it is much worse for Aboriginal women, especially here in the Northern Territory, and whether we're stuck in Groundhog Day, what's happening, what the responses are, and the small acts of resistance that show it is possible for us to say collectively that we're not pretending this is fine. So good afternoon, Sarah. How are you going?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Oh, good afternoon, Lauren. Well, I'm seeing you, which is always a bonus to my week, even though that we are going to be talking about something that I would really prefer never to have to talk about. But we did agree it is super duper important to acknowledge these four women and where we're at as a society in terms of violence against women.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Absolutely. And I've been watching a documentary, I have not finished it yet, but I've been watching a documentary called Thoughts and Prayers about school shootings in the US, which is kind of where our conversation originated from today. It's quite hard-hitting so far, this idea that we're actually preparing children for how to be safe in these really unsafe, violent situations. And the idea that that's actually transferable to the way in which we raise, particularly girls in Australia or in the UK, in many, many parts of the world, where we grow girls up with a sense that they need to be prepared to defend themselves and keep themselves safe and be thinking about that and having that level of self-awareness that they may be in an unsafe situation at just about any time, which is really devastating to say out loud, but really important that we don't just let it slip by again.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

It so is. So we never have to deal with that. But you are so right. We are still teaching our girls don't wear a particular thing, don't walk in the dark, don't do this, don't do that, and then you might be safe. So it is the same thing, it's the same argument underneath, but uh just a different sort of surface-level conversation. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It yeah, it really is, and then fascinating that realistically we're preparing girls to be safe out there in the world when the danger is often much closer to them than we could ever prepare them for. So, which again is probably very similar there in the US. And, you know, we recorded a couple of episodes a week or so ago, and there was another big story in the media that's gone kind of quiet now, I I suppose, which was the Australian man who travelled to Thailand to essentially it would seem allegedly get involved in kind of sex tourism, if you like, and allegedly murdered a 17-year-old Thai girl. So this is so much more insidious than I think we ever give it credit for in terms of coverage. And we did have a look. We know that here in the Northern Territory the rates are so much higher than the rest of the country, which is probably even more of a reason why we want to make sure that we, as a collective, take the time to acknowledge it. Uh, the homicide rates in terms of domestic and family violence here in the Northern Territory is seven times the rest of the country. It's it's outrageous. And I often wonder about whether or not the rest of the country actually knows that, understands that, hears that. Do you think they do? How uh you know, there is a conversation to be had here about how these stories are covered when and we've talked about it, and you've raised it in terms of Aboriginal women, women of colour, refugees, yep, our LGBTQI community, people who may be at high risk and do not get the coverage that some others do, as much as every story deserves to be told.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Oh, absolutely, it sure does. Yes, I I think that's a massive part of it. Any sort of minority, someone who doesn't fit in the culturally dominant box, if you will, I suppose is probably less likely to be covered. There was one in quest that described the Northern Territory as the only place in the world where women are more likely to be murdered than men. I thought that was fascinating. And not in a good way. It's devastating.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

It's it's it's it's disgraceful. You know, we are we consider ourselves an evolved first world country. And, you know, we are, I I suppose, overall very safe compared to a lot of places in the world. But it does depend who you are and where you live, doesn't it, as to how safe you actually are. So I I think it is it's not a point that we are going to labor on today, but I think it is very important for us to be able to point that out as well. Um, that Aboriginal women here in the Northern Territory, Aboriginal women in general, do suffer at the hands of this type of violence at a much higher rate than the women. But counting dead women's data suggests that 70 to 80 women a year die as a result of violence in Australia. And 75% are killed by someone that they know. So, like you're saying, preparing our girls for the boogeyman who's going to attack them in the street actually is probably just a little bit of more fear-mongering than is required when it's more likely to be a person that she actually knows, like a current or a former partner or a family member. But the stat that I guess rocks me most is that one woman every four days is likely to be killed by a man she knows. So as a mum of girls, that really frightens me, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, it really terrifies me as well. And it terrifies me that the conversation about it as well often lands in this not all men's space, which we've touched on before plenty of times. Um, man or the bear conversation. And I just kind of wished that more people, rather than saying, not me, were actually equally as terrified, saying, Enough, this is not okay, and we're all going to be part of the community conversation, and we're going to call the attitudes out that ultimately create the culture that allows this to continue to fester because that's what happens. This is happening in plain sight, right? We we can't pretend we don't know this is happening. There's scary stats about what happens when state of origin is on, for example. There was plenty of conversation during COVID about what it would mean for women who may be on in lockdown with people who regularly perpetrate violence against them. So we we know these things. And so it's incredibly frustrating that we still have this conversation about hashtag not all in whoever. Like, can we get a bit deeper? It's actually things we can all do. And so we talked a little bit about the government responses to this. So the government is calling it a national crisis, which is not good to hear, but good to hear because it is. And you had brought to my attention that there is going to be national cabinet meetings. One of the things you know, it's really important, it needs to be elevated to that status, uh, of course. One of the things that I know uh we always push for in the Northern Territory is needs-based funding. And do you think that this will be entertained at that national cabinet meeting? Sarah, is this the turning point? I haven't done the only thing I need to know.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

I I do I do laugh. I'm also involved in uh conversations about other things that require needs-based funding where it's not. So um, yeah, I don't know, population funding for the Northern Territory having 1% of Australia's population means that you get a slice of sweet fuck all, really. Uh, that's what it amounts to when it's population-based funding. Look, I don't know. And in you know, full disclosure, this is not an area that I know a lot of in terms of what actually is happening a lot nationally. But the thing I keep coming back to, I do think it's great that we're talking about it. Like you say, it's great, not great situation that it has been declared a national crisis, but it's been declared a national crisis a number of times. This isn't the first time we've had this conversation. You know, for decades we've been having this conversation about family violence towards women as well. Or, or I don't even know what the term is when it's a known man, but it's not necessarily family. But, you know, similar these women being murdered by men or boys that they know. I think over those decades there's been hundreds of recommendations, national plans and inquiries, coroners and Senate committees, and experts will say the knowledge gap isn't there. There's an implementation gap. And so I'm wondering, and I do see this across in other areas, like other areas I work in, inclusion in schools, for example, for children with disabilities. We know what has to happen and we know what it's meant to look like, but there seems to be an implementation gap, and even, dare I say, a will gap. So do we have the will to actually change what matters? And similar, I think, in this sort of domestic and family violence or this known perpetrator sort of violence aspect here is similar to, in my opinion, disability and inclusion, in that there isn't a lot of will. And what has to change actually is not policy and legislation necessarily. This is about attitude change. This is about how we value people, and it's the same argument, whether you're talking about women or you're talking about disability. We are not valuing these cohorts in our population enough to make a change. And it's not simple, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that this is a simple piece. It's very involved, and it's very involved because it comes down to every single person in this community and their role in how we bring up children, how we provide support to families. It's all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Totally agree with you. And we will link it in our show notes, but our watch actually has some really good information on how to prevent violence against women. And there's a national, there is a national plan. This is and should be bipartisan. And as you say, though, as far as how money flows, it there needs to be the will, the ongoing commitment, the long-term commitment, and the actual implementation in a timely manner that actually sees those recommendations supported. And we have a really topical example happening here in the Northern Territory as we speak, where there is some emergency accommodation that's looking like it's going to close in, you know, not a lot of time from now. What should have probably been sorted out previously to make sure that there isn't this mad rush at the end to make sure that women and children have somewhere safe to go is now a mad rush. And you just feel like, why do we why do we keep going through these cycles of reacting because something's going wrong? There's a service closing, or there's somebody's losing funding because you just didn't know it was coming to an end. We're just not proactive enough necessarily. And we end up doing a lot of things that are the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff rather than the how are we having more women in decision making? Where's our conversation around early childhood and how that actually adds to financial security for women, but also that community of support and care for families and an understanding and connection with families and what's going on for them. The gender stereotypes, the conversation we're just often talking at cross-purposes, I feel. And that's the frustration, is that it always becomes about, and I think often in political terms, as you know, Sarah, but this idea that it's either against traditional family values or it's some radical left version of a family when ultimately gender stereotypes damage us all.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

We need to be doing more to build that respectful relationships, boys being in touch with their emotions and being more involved with raising their children and connected to them, and all of those sorts of things are such an important part of this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yeah, they really are. And as you know, you know, you were part of a government that was very, I feel, talked a lot about the importance of investing in generational change. And that's what these things are about. And I can see how it becomes difficult for governments to do that, particularly if another party comes along and professes to have very easy solutions to very complex problems. And that's what these are. These things are embedded misogyny, these things are, you know, how we um bring up our boys and the way we see women and the way we as a culture respond to harassment and all those sorts of things that these things are down to each individual in society, that it's not going to be something that governments can legislate for, but governments do need to provide leadership on that generational change. But it's very hard, I think, probably to bring populations along on that journey because the problems are so at the pointy end. We want to, it's a bit like in the health system how the conversation is all about beds in hospitals when you know we're spending something like 2% of a health budget on prevention sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Like it's just totally, totally, yeah, yeah. It's so many different issues. This is the the commonality between them all. And and as you were saying that, I was just thinking about some of the other conversations that we've had on this pod about trad wives and this and that and the other. And it's it's like, well, we can support these structures that have always existed, because apparently that's better for us all when actually it's producing these massive rates of domestic and family violence, and it always has. So, anyway, with that in mind, it is a bit of a shorter episode today, and I think we wanted to go to our glimmers because one of the things that we have been sharing with one another throughout the week is some examples of unexpected businesses, places in our community that are being part of the resistance. Do you want to share that glimmer?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yeah, I love this. And it's it ties in nicely with our topic today, where you know, this culture of violence against women has culminated in the worst possible outcomes for women and families out there as well. But going back to a previous pod where we had spoken about Jimmy Fallon, the late-night host, that had on his show Connor McGregor, who was found liable for uh sexually assaulting a woman. And it was about the really the promotion of you know him coming back into his amazingness in his career, and the world went a bit nuts about it, which was great. I love that. And what we found during the week is that there are some Irish pubs and retailers out there uh dropping his uh stout and whiskey after the civil verdict, and like it's a great thing. So I think you know, they're saying there's some bars in Ireland that have said we're not showing his comeback fight. They're publicly saying they don't want to profit from silence around violence against women. Um, there's a report of a Dublin boxing gym painting over its McGregor mural saying he's no longer a role model, uh, and people want nothing to do with him. So, you know what, they don't have to do that, they have made a decision to do that. And right there, they are sending a message to their local communities saying this is where we stand on this. And do you know what? I do think they also say that we are committed to making this a safe place for women to be. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I do too, I do too. It's up there for me. We've there are lots of initiatives, including here in the Northern Territory, around safe venues and just making sure that women who might be in the loo know what to say to a bartender if they're being harassed so that they can get the support they need, all those sorts of things. I think just send a message that we don't have tolerance in this venue for that kind of behaviour, and particularly places that might be sports bars or gyms to do with boxing, those sorts of things that might be more male-dominated as well. I think it sends an extra great message. And no one's no one is making them do that, as you say. It's just a genuine show of community leadership, I think, and we love that. So it is a short episode. We just wanted to make sure that we did acknowledge it and that you knew that we acknowledge it and all of the work that our community services do in particular to provide safety to women and children, particularly in our community. There is 1-800 respect, it's a national service in Australia. It provides confidential counseling 24 hours, seven days a week, if this is something that brings issues up for you. But also importantly, there is an emergency alert that will go out to everybody's phones on the 27th this month in a week or so. And it's really important if you know somebody who might have a phone that their partners might not know about for safety reasons. There are ways in which I understand you can turn it off for the period when those alerts are going out because it will go to every phone. It is intended to happen even if the phone is on silence. So that sort of information, look it up, see what time it is in your time zone, and sharing that kind of information with your friends, I think is important. Sad that it's necessary, but important.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

That's right. We never know what happens behind closed doors often. And the the hardest part about some of this is it's happening to people right next door to us, and we don't even know. So it it does tell us more and more. I think every episode almost tells us this the importance of the village uh around our families out there as well, and the importance of supporting women going through these sorts of crises as well. So our our hearts are just really out to these four women and their families this week. It's been a sad, a sad week for that. But it is important to talk about, and I do hope that anyone listening will talk to their friends about it as well. Keep talking about this stuff, do the small of resistance. Exactly. Call it out, call out the the jokes against women, call out the bad behaviour, the little, you know, side comments, things like that. All of those things matter. And as we've said before, our children are watching. Both our girls and our boys are watching that, and they're learning what's acceptable and what's not acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Absolutely. Support on.