🎙️ Episode 56: Predator on the Pulpit – Kathleen Walsh (Part 2)

🎙️ Episode 56: Predator on the Pulpit – Kathleen Walsh (Part 2)

There are episodes you listen to…
 And there are episodes that stay with you.

Part 2 of Predator on the Pulpit with Kathleen Walsh takes us deeper into the lived reality of abuse, silence, and the devastating ripple effects that follow when systems fail to protect the vulnerable.

Kathleen speaks with raw honesty about her childhood—about being just a young girl navigating a world where what was happening to her was not only known… but ignored.

This episode explores the confusion, shame, and silence that surrounded abuse in a time when children were not believed, not protected, and not empowered to speak.

It’s confronting.

It’s emotional.

And it’s necessary.

⚠️ Trigger Warning

This episode contains discussions around:

•  Child abuse 
•  Trauma 
•  Suicide and self-harm 
•  Institutional failure 

If this episode brings anything up for you, please don’t sit with it alone.

📞 Lifeline (Australia): 13 11 14
📞 Kids Helpline: 1800 55 1800
📞 1800RESPECT: 1800 737 732

💬 What This Episode Unpacks

In Part 2, we begin to understand the deeper impact of what Kathleen endured—not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically.

We explore:

•  The silence and shame carried by children 
•  Why victims don’t speak up 
•  The role of fear, authority, and control 
•  The ripple effect of trauma on families, friendships, and communities 
•  Early signs of emotional breakdown, including suicide attempts at a young age 
•  The lifelong impact of not being believed 

One of the most powerful takeaways from this episode is the understanding that no one walks away from abuse untouched—not the victims, not their families, not even those who stood by and didn’t understand what they were witnessing.

🧠 A Deeper Conversation on Suicide & Survival

Kathleen courageously shares moments from her childhood where she reached breaking point.

Her insight is powerful:

People don’t end their life to hurt others…
 They do it to escape their own pain.

This episode offers not just awareness—but understanding.

And a message we want every listener to hear:

👉 Stay another day.

⚖️ Accountability & Truth

A key theme emerging in this series is responsibility.

Kathleen makes it clear:

This was never the responsibility of children.
 Not the victims.
 Not their friends.
 Not their families.

The responsibility sits where it always should have:

👉 With the perpetrators
👉 With those who knew and did nothing
👉 With the institutions that allowed it to continue

🔥 What’s Coming in Part 3

Part 3 of this series will go even deeper.

We step into the system.

•  Who knew? 
•  Who stayed silent? 
•  Who moved offenders on? 
•  And when does silence become complicity? 

This next episode is where the conversation shifts from story… to accountability.

💪 Support the Podcast

This is more than a podcast—it’s a platform for truth, healing, and real conversations that matter.

If you’d like to support the mission and help keep these stories being told:

👉 https://gofund.me/a6e40c460

⚡ Powered by Our Major Sponsor

👉 https://my.lactigo.com/buzz2026

🎧 Listen Now

Available on all major platforms including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Before we start part two of Predator in the Pulpit with the courageous Kathleen Walsh, I need to say this clearly. This episode is damn raw. It's confronting and at times bloody hard to hear. Kathleen takes us deeper into what happened as a child. The silence around it, the shame children were forced to carry, and the systems that should have protected them, but didn't. We talk about abuse, trauma, suicide, institutional failure, and the lifelong ribble effect left behind when adults choose silence over courage. So please, if this episode touches something in you, don't sit with it alone. In Australia, you can call Lifeline on 13114. Kids Helpline on 1-800-2551800 or 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732. And if you're sitting thinking you can't do another day, please just stay. One more day. Pick up the phone, message someone, knock on the door, you're not a burden. You're not broken beyond a hip pair, and your story ain't finished. This conversation matters because silence is where predators survive. Kathleen's courage is not just in telling her story, it's helping others find theirs. This is episode 56, Predator on the Pulpit, part two, with the amazingly courageous Kathleen Walsh. A Who is Your Hero production, powered by our Major sponsor, Lactigo, and recorded at the beautiful sea bar on the Strand overlooking Magnetic Island. Let's get uncomfortable because that's where truth begins. This is Who is Your Hero? And let's pick off where we left off. The beautiful Sea Bar and uh kind of get going on a part two, and we'll sort of finish, uh, start where we finished there. And we were just getting into the age of twelve. One of my questions that carry on, did did you feel alone in us? Um, and furthermore, don't have to answer it simultaneously, but I really want to know how you young girls talk talked about it. I feel it was happening to you and obviously happening to others. Was there any communication or did you all sort of keep a little bit quiet?

SPEAKER_05 3:47

I think we were all very much ashamed. You and those that it was happening to you. Um, you know, it wasn't back then, you know, most of it's hard the other had a TV, you know. So, you know, I remember the nun telling me it was disgusting that children watched that people watched number 96. I had no what sh no idea what she was talking about.

SPEAKER_09 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:07

And that's how whiskey things were back then. So you can imagine, you know, how you you you just didn't say what was being done to you. Like I said to you before, uh, it certainly was known that he was Father Thieler and he was creepy cream and, you know, other nicknames. But, you know, there was no out and out, you didn't say what he was doing. Or saw what he did to did, you know, putting his hand on girls' breasts and on bottoms and updresses and you know, putting his hands up their dresses and and he did that all but out in the playground. So you can't, you know, it was well well intruding no one and scenes.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Is this co-education in school?

SPEAKER_05 4:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

It's just girls.

SPEAKER_05 4:47

No, he did it to boys as well, you know, that's to, you know, Kring denies that and and that, you know, that that's for another I can't discuss that because, you know, he's got other cases pending and stuff like that. But at the end of the day in that, Wing Lee, you know, he there was no nothing off Linitz with Kring. Okay, that needs to be understood. And he you have to think through the lens of a child. Put yourself in that playground, you know, children of the of the day in the playground with nuns and and you know, what have you walking around. And a priest has got his hand on your breasts and nothing's being done about that. So what are you as a child supposed to think? This is acceptable.

SPEAKER_06 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

You know, and back then you didn't buck up and scream and carry on because we weren't allowed.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yeah, and it's alright for me to get way angry sitting here listening to this and say, what were the 15-year-old boys?

SPEAKER_06 5:48

Well, I read out high school. We've we're talking, we were separated.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Yeah. I'm old high school.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Yeah, I suppose, but I'm thinking there of the young fellow fight to see that, but I would have been a kid too, so either say that in hindsight is not get what you're saying. So I gotta I gotta call me Jetsy.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

You you have to you have to start because there was a kid there and oblivious to everything going on and so it's very easy to stand there now and say, ooh, should've could'ves.

SPEAKER_06 6:17

I get it.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

It was a different time and it was a different it wasn't acceptable that adults knew and did nothing.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

It wasn't about the children to it wasn't the children's responsibility to to persist You do create this you you sort of saying two points there. One is we had a little chat in the bike that uh how you still admire your parents because they couldn't do anything, you're not thinking you're gonna bag 'em out here. No. And secondly, uh backing up the kids because they didn't know any different.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

I remember my best thing from screw during the seminar And I remember her saying to me one day, I'm too so sorry, too so sorry, and I said, You're not your responsibility. You you're a child. Don't you be so sorry for getting emotional. It wasn't a responsibility, you know, it was none of my friend, none of my classmates, it was none of their responsibility. We were kids. This was the responsibility of we have to bring it back to who Willie has to be responsible here. And that's the church and clergy. It is not the responsibility of of anybody else.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

There also would have been politicians that knew of all this at the time too, and I know I don't want to get down the rabble, but you just we just brought up something that I didn't even think of. Is it there's there's a lot of you kids out there that were molested. Yes. But there were a lot of kids out there, like you just said your best friend that wasn't, second wreck, yeah, but she felt a burnt of you. Guilt. So she's carried that too.

SPEAKER_05 8:00

100%. There's nobody left unscathed by child sex abuse, the parents, the friends, the siblings. Moment was left unscathed, and so that's why I took a position of I I can't blame my parents. I can't blame my siblings. I can't my I was a lot younger than my siblings anyway. They weren't they weren't even living at home. They had their own loves. I, you know, they all I you know one was two of them are living in towns for they're on way. So it wasn't their responsibility. It and you'll find, you know, a lot of us in that position don't hold that malice against anybody except except the perpetrator, the bystanders, and the institutions.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

So that that's really um didn't actually think about the the I'm not gonna say the onlookers, but your press mates feel guilty. And there'd be that they didn't offend you. Doesn't it doesn't leave anyone alone, does it?

SPEAKER_05 9:03

No. No, no, I and and it's that's why it's also generational trauma, you know. And my trauma g, you know, w we're going to whip blame and shame. You know, I took the blame and I took the shame. And and that started really having a major impact in that year that I in grade seven, when I went to the nun and at you know at the camp and I said what I said, and then I went to Sister Francis, the the principal, and I told her, and you know, she even put me up in front of the whole school at assembly and she said, no, before she gave into the cats in front of the high school, she told told the school, this is what happens to liars. So, you know, tell me, tell me what child is then gonna speak out. When when they see that happening, are you gonna then stand up as well? Of course you're not.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

And um, but the fear of Christ didn't.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Absolutely. And that was the message. We are going to do this, and this will not only shut up Kathleen, but this will shut up all children.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Do you know what? This is a bit of deja vu for me, and I know I saw that, but it it's like these um lures that the government are bringing in a quest and the uh uh uh not hate speech for sort of, but they're trying to ban people like me speaking the truth on social media, and this is you're gonna go to jail, and and it's sort of repetitive behaviour that we're gonna screw you enough not to tell the truth. So imagine that means full assembly say, this is what happened if we come and tell me a lie, you gotta go bang.

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Or sh this is what happens to liars, and you know, kids would have known that I and there wasn't a day then after that that I didn't, you know, I didn't get smacked in the head, you know, sumped in the back, you know, sh for other kids or in the cluster. Rather than trying my teeth my the numb. When I was a young boy at Sally's in college with with nuns and brothers and Yeah, so is you saw that hot min that are you then gonna go and say, by the way, father runs it? No way, no way either my spill.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

I want I want people to understand this theme role at the moment because it's quite interesting to me. I've been looking at this as an adult. Yeah, what need you do? Did you take yourself back to an innocent father that was tot I was shit scared of the brothers. Um those nuns. We heard one called Sister Alison Mary, and she was three foot eye and Aletha.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

Yep, you you just didn't cross them, mate. And so, you know, people need to I know it's very easy to hear these stories and and stand in judgment of of, you know, the community and the parents and and the other kids and and what have you. And that's why I I know I sound like a broken record. There are only there there was only one source of blame here. The church and the clergy. That's it. That's the only source of blame. And it's the clergy that were either perpetrating or the clergy, you did nothing. Because they are as guilty. So we have to stop, you know, reframing this and making it everyone else's responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 12:16

Especially when the church sent them places and knew what they were like.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

I get it, I get it, and understanding a lot more. I hope our our listeners are understanding this a bit more and thank you. Um, yeah, I love the play. I gotta uh backtrack a little bit here as we spoke, where we have a little bit of a spell. Troll, you wanted to go back to before we moved on. Um So Troll's a pivotal turning point for me, mate. First attempt of suicide, it shocked me. I thought the suicide thing was later in life, but uh fill it fillow lest me in a bit because that's Yeah, if it stumped me. And one question I asked you, was it instantaneous or was it thought about and plan and tell us uh, you know, you just relive the moment to me in the spell if you're comfortable.

SPEAKER_07 13:05

That's all right. Let it go where I was again doing.

SPEAKER_05 13:08

And there was a time in I actually raised this with my detective. Um, and I we used to put, you know, it was a lot of hot manners and we didn't, you know, it was just hot. And was to put um our glasses in the freezer um to drink out of. And uh I had a bowl of ice cream, I'd scooped out the ice cream and put it in the bowl and left it in the freezer to get it even colder, you know, out of the container into open air. And a glass in there, and when I opened the freezer, the glass had broken with the the cold, and some of the glass had gone into my bowl of ice cream. And I you know, again, you have to think through the eyes of a child. And I took that bowl out of the out of the freezer and I was sitting at the table and looking at the ice cream, and I just started to break the i the glass into the ice cream, just crushed it into the ice cream. And in my little in my child mind, it was I eat this, I'll get a stomachache, and I won't have to go to school tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

It was tasting Chris, you've been looking for ways to avoid school.

SPEAKER_05 14:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

And as we're gonna discuss it now to avoid wives.

SPEAKER_05 14:25

Absolutely. And I can remember my mum coming in and and she said, Oh my god, what have you done? There was blood coming out of my mouth, because the dash I was see as I was cheering was cutting my mouth. And then she held me over the kitchen sink and was washing the you know the ice cream and the glass out. And then there was another occasion the same year. And you know, when the uh we met the creek, uh 23rd Avenue, when the creek would run, um, when the river would run, yeah, would come through, it'd start out like a trickle of water, and then it was like a wall of water comes through, you know? And and it was spectacular to watch it, and you know, you'd the the endline would go down to the r riverbed and watch it coming through and watch the water rising, and it was like a big thrill, you know. Um didn't take much to entertain us back then, officer. And um I remember deciding that when the creek would come through, warm us up, you know, it's a creek's come that's coming, it's coming. I remember I would go down to the creek and I would just ride out and get washed away with the water. That was in my head. I was twelve.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

And so we said to cut you off.

SPEAKER_05 15:38

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

How how long did you plan that this was were you waiting for the creek to Yeah. And how how many times a year did this happen?

SPEAKER_05 15:46

Just in the wet season. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

So you'd planned this for how long?

SPEAKER_05 15:50

So that probably that grade seven year, I thought of that that would be a way out was to jam. Yep, to jam myself. And I went down to the creek and on my push bike. And I went out into the middle of the creek and and just stood there with my bike, like, okay, the water will come through now and that'll you know, I'll just get washed with the water and that'll be the end of it all. And and people were screaming on the on the side of the creek. And I just stood there staring, waiting for the water to come through. And two men tied themselves, tied ropes around themselves into the four-wheel drive, because the water was coming through and came came out, the water was rising, came out and grinding and my bike um and and dragged me back to there. And I was so angry, I was so angry that they did it that you know, in 2021 then when I went couplet, a man Isaac wang me, and she said her and her mother had been on the creek, edge of the creek that day and watched it. And she said her mother had said to her, and oh, there'd been a conversation where, you know, why the hell did I do that? You know, what what made me do that? And I remember when she told me that she had she remembered it and she'd seen it.

SPEAKER_07 17:15

And there's like I was validated that that somebody remembered that, that I had done that ab and that it was true.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Did I mean that it was true? No. And you did that maybe too desperate. Desperate to make evolution. So I'm a big believer in the universe. Left and on Tippin' you are. That day you were shitty on the two men. But there's a there was a lesson for him. We're probably sitting here right now.

SPEAKER_05 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

King the reason, eh?

SPEAKER_05 17:50

Yep, hundred percent. And there's many you're a savage on it at the time.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Oh, very just you're very sad, very angry and sad that in 2021 you got valivation for it to make it f fear a little bit worthwhile, eh?

SPEAKER_05 18:04

Yeah, and that girl that woman when she rang me understood then why I did that thing. All it was said was an understanding of me.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

As What was going through your mind in those manners? Like a as a twelve-year-old kid, once again you've you stumped me again, but it's it's so hard for me with it being the victim or anything, you get this suma heck.

SPEAKER_05 18:31

I just remember I wanted the water to hurry up. Just hurry up and then just take me. I didn't care. Didn't care because it would mean that it was over.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Did you have any faith in that time that you were going to sho gotta religion this stuff for you then?

SPEAKER_07 18:47

I could care less about battles for you and I'm smutting it out cane away from the other one. Just stop crying.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

When they were talking about it's fitting do it in your mind still, I understand that. When they're talking about that, I'll just go on this subject now, that's people that um suicide them, and it's a very touchy point of view. There's obviously a lot going through their head to get it. Or some people it's instantaneous. It could be once something really bad happened at the moment and they go, I feel worse fuck it online. One of the things I find talk about in the podcast, and I'd just build, say, a new app that's with Apple at the moment, it's the the nebulse up to your feeling bad you've got this app and it's got a new mechanism used to maybe help a lot. It's a funny subject because you have to be brave to do what you did at time with standard of that creep, but that takes courage. But it also you must be at the end of your server tether to do some of what have you got any advice for someone that's got to that point, feeling it suffering deep. One, the courage to do what you did, but secondly, when you were safe, have you got any advice of anyone that's uh there's a couple of things I'd like to say.

SPEAKER_05 20:10

First of all, we can I think the first thing I'd like to say is um you need to remember that if your Dami Lendle or friend or anybody has already committed suicide, they didn't mean it to put you. There was no way that they did that because they wanted to hurt anybody else. Their only focus is to take away their own pain. Um, and I think that leads to the second bit. When you're when you're going, when you're in that space, it's not that you don't care or love anybody else. Do you you absolutely do? You actually think you're a you're doing what's best for everybody else.

SPEAKER_07 20:49

Rick. You feel like you're a burden to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

And you make it easier.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

You make it easier for everybody else if you're another Rand. And the reality is, um you wouldn't make it easier for anybody else. You you create another um You're gone, you made it gone, but you create another problem for the always left behind. Um so mm I think, you know, don't don't tell someone they're being ridiculous if they if they throw that way or they say that. Um don't demean the way they're seeing by by making it sound like it's a really dumb plan or you know it's a it's a they're not thinking about anybody else. Because they actually are. They actually are thinking about other people. And they are thinking about the pain that they're in, and they do see that as the escape. I don't know if I feel it through that way at twelve, but uh, you know, I thought about oh, there was a suicide decision in 2023 for me deep. And and I wasn't two months later when, you know. Um when I m well my detective my detective spoke to me and and you know, she said how she felt knowing that I, you know, had chosen to go down that path was gonna go down that pathway and the impact that it would have had on her and you know other people. And I hadn't thought of it. I hadn't thought even about the ripple effect, you know what I mean? You think about your kids, you think about your family and stuff like that, but you don't think about the ripple effect that you're gonna have on on so many other people. So pick up the phone, stay a mother day.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Stay another day, I love it, and that's um that's uh what the whole app's about. But I'm not here on a marketing exercise, of course, but there's one particular part of the app that is a guide to those dealing with someone that they feel suicidal, and I've got a little part on it that's the do's and the don'ts, and it's exactly what you just brought up then is what to say and what not to say. And it's it's gonna be open and live, and it's gonna be an ongoing thing because I book plugs that I believe in that don't say this, say this, you know, and it's all grass half full, not grass half empty. And uh, once the app is out there, I'll share it with all my listeners and everyone that's been in this, and you can add to it and um with other things because I think we need a lot of education about if you know something, don't matter who it is, speak up. That's number one. Don't care if it's a prime minister of Australia or someone lying in a gutter. I think we've got to be more ballsy as blokes, and I think it comes back to the blokes because the lemons seem to speak up a fair bit more than us guys, and we try to bro code, I suppose you could say, and it's not tough to do that. Not when you know someone is doing something wrong. Um I th you know it's uh it's a hundred percent you you the the trist should get you in trouble, and it does, but there's plenty of people around you if you if you want to tell the truth, but um yeah, so if you're contemplating that, and this is this is um triggering you on any anything, do it. It's uh stay another day. And Tim Tim Um Tim McKee said one thing beautiful when I had him on the podcast. He says, not in your case, um, this is more so for someone that's had a shit day and uh spare-of-the-moment decision, it's pretty unlikely you're gonna have three shit days in a row. And that's not in your case, because you had a lot of shit days in a row, and I understand it. For those that have had a shit day, they might have had a gambling problem, they might have done something something growing, I'm gonna end my life. No, just stay another day there and and tell someone about it, and you can do some healing.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

And and uh you're not here by you know, you're not here by mistake. And uh you know, I interesting that you made that point about, you know, when I was twelve, you know, would I have seen this fifty years later? No, not at all.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Well, you're saying this with the uh you know, I'm sitting next to you. I'll do a lot of podcasts just for choice, but uh I like these ones where we're up close and personal. But you're talking with a smile. You know what I mean? That's courageous. Yeah, you you're actually talking just to fill your listers in. I don't I don't do a lot of my podcasts that have got video because I thought it won't do it for a start. But you're uh talking about this it you've conquered something.

SPEAKER_05 25:54

Absolutely, I've absolutely and you know for any victim doesn't matter what a victim does out, you know, every day that they stay, they've conquered.

SPEAKER_07 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:05

You know, um there's a there's uh quite a few stories where victims have contacted me and and they've been ready to suicide. And you know, when they they do send me, you know, the photos of a grandchild or they'll send me a photo of yeah, you know, sea bearing. Yeah, so you you know, you try and think of tomorrow. Be here for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Just a quick one from me, Buzz. Massive shout out to the legends of the sea bar down on the strand. Now, if you haven't been there, what are you doing? Cold beers, cracking food, and a view over Magnetic Island that'll make you forget every problem you walked in with. But more than that, these guys actually give us stuff about townsfolk. They back the locals, support the community, and create a place where people can come together. And that really matters. It's exactly why we choose to record here. So do yourself a favor, get down the C-bar, grab a drink, soak it all in, and tell them. Yeah, that's that's that's a great blend to get sent pictures and memories. And I'll always um said no, I've suffered a fair bit of metal health problems, but not true that said the same as you. But I've always had this theory, it has been really, really good times in my life, and has been really, really shit times. But if you can keep creating from you and in great memories, and when life gets a little bit shitty, or like Tim Mitchin said in his song You Gotta Have a Duna Day, when he wrote that one about George Powell, which um you'll be here with it now, because I love it. When you're having a Duna Day, you've got to go back to something that was grouse.

SPEAKER_07 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Do you know what I mean at that time?

SPEAKER_07 27:59

And I underneath all it was there still good moments to show. Oh, absolutely. I I loved my themes.

SPEAKER_05 28:07

I had my themes were everything, you know, and they were just everything to me. And I'm you know, I'm my fans got me through the uh I I not don't know when they're gonna get to the point where I did go to the police. About craned it. I did, and you know, my friends got me through all that too, you know.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

So there was a lot of, you know, there was good times, but um It was always the you said you said to me, What you said to me before we started this that on your way in here, you've got a childhood friend from the age of, I don't know, I then just said I'm all added to you, unless I'm not, but we'll talk about it. If you say I'm not added, I'll cut it out. But driving here to the is the m magnificent sea now in the strand where it's always with witty, but um you wang her that. And one of your childhood friends rang me? I don't yeah, you rang her. Yeah. You're a shittin' bricks, I was this.

SPEAKER_05 29:08

Well, you know, you know, uh my story was put out there in 21, but I'm talking about a lot more pest and stuff now. And and when you mirror Bob Vleeze, it's a whole different Durgoin than when you just read it in a newspaper. So it's a lot more personal. And so yeah, I was concerned and I was coming down here. My first, my best friend's from school, and it was the first day of school I went to school, she was um standing there crying, and I still stared at her about it. She was standing there crying and I said, What's wrong? And she said, uh, I miss my mummy. And I said, Oh well, we've got to be here, so get over it. Um she, you know, I I towed the boy that had sat down next to me to Mozy's desk and uh I sat her next to me and I said, I'll look after her. And um truth is that she's looked after me for the last seven years. You know, she's gotten through some really dark times in throughout this last seven year period, because there has been a lot of dark times. And I rang her instant, instantly coming down here, I rang her and I said, hi, she, ah, what's going on? I said, Oh, we're doing the podcast today. And and it was just, you know, she said, You've you'll be fine, you're good, you know, don't don't stress. And then she sent me, as soon as we hang up the phone, she sent me a text message and she said, You always tell the truth, so don't worry about it, you know. So just you know, and that she loved me. And and that's the thing, you know, I think it's time for the truth about all of this. That's why I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Yeah, and there's another thing that comes up, that's um you've you've got to have, even if it's just you're the carer for someone and it's one close one close friend, isn't it? Yeah, it's all you need that that can listen to the whole the whole story and they spoke in that position, there'll be someone out there that that will give you a hug.

SPEAKER_07 30:56

Well, I'm only a phone call away.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yep. And then you and ear, because just having that conversation, that first initial step to the and and I'm I'm about to talk about that actually. It's funny how these podcasts sink themselves into the next thing. And the third part of this will be about the system, which we will get into, and that's gonna be very, very good for our listeners. And we're only on part two at the moon, and if you think that's been good, it's just warming up. Just I'd like to say it out there. All being very nice, and it it actually did I did ship myself when that salt and paper had to shake it, went because it someone gives you ask a warning then just too you jazz true. We were going pretty deep at that snake. So let's go back to it. You you reckon you first told someone at the age of 12 a fat head? Oh, this is after that suicide attempt.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

I know, I I you mean the nuns and though?

SPEAKER_03 31:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

No, they were I was about eleven when I told them. It's beginning of, you know, is probably first true another of grade seven. Prime this for I grade seven was end of primary, and then grade eight was uh high school for us.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Grade seven, you're you're sort of top of the class. You know, you guys were about to graduate to high school, and that's when that's when you sort of first had a enough courage to tell someone or And I remember too, there were many incidents in grade seven.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

So that's probably why I actually started there with the police, because grade seven, there was just so many incidents and so many things that stood out to me. But, you know, like I said, it started before that. But, you know, there was a time where Cream was a I was sent over to uh to the music room to do something. And I go over to the music room and I and uh Cream came out of there, came into the music room. I wasn't expecting it, obviously. And um Anyway, to look just to get to where he was sexually abusing me. And um I I learned as an adult, um, I learned during my criminal case that it's called dissociation, where you would dissociate from what was going on around you to take you away from the trauma of what was happening. And so I was dissociating from what he was doing to me, and I was uh looking at a a call it's the crystal crystal vase, red roses. I was staring at the red roses and the crystal vase, and and another part of the memory of that moment is where his crucifix kept hitting me in the face as he was abusing me. And uh one of the nuns uh I opened the door and I took my eyes off the crystal off the red noses and the crystal vase, thinking this is it, this is where I'm gonna get saved, this is the moment. And she stood there and she saw what he was doing and she shut the door. And you know, so that there's a lot of pivotal moments in that year, but the m the thing that really stands out to me in grade seven was I learned to just shut up because nobody was gonna do anything. Just shut up. And yeah, it was a very isolating time. It was a very and I think I went into grade eight then. I I I remember the biggest shock in grade eight. It's funny how a little a a child's grain works. So I remember going home on my pushbike in, you know, end of grade seven, thinking, oh, it's fall over. It's all over, you know, he's it's not disgusted. It's all over. He it's he, you know, I'll never have to see him again. It's grade seven's finished, you know? And I walked into high school in grade eight and he's standing there. I never thought about him going to other schools. I it didn't dawn on me.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Just thought he was at the one school.

SPEAKER_05 34:51

Yeah. It didn't dawn on me that I was gonna see him at and passport. But I remember just being gutted. I was gutted that it wasn't over. It wasn't over. He was gonna do during grade eight. Um And I think that's that's where I really that's the year I started to really spiral because um I guess I'd lost hope. There was no hope anymore. He was everywhere. You everywhere you went, he was there. That's how I you know could see it. And uh I probably that's when I started to s just start drinking stuff.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

So that yeah, so in the Isa, how many what would be the population amount Isa back then? Pretty big city. 38,000 maybe, I don't know. You were talking about the four Catholic schools.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Yeah, and he and he was also chaplain at the public schools I've since found out, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

I say he was at the high schools down.

SPEAKER_07 35:51

Yeah, there was the uh there was the chapla the day schools. So how many um there were another priest there too?

SPEAKER_03 35:58

And and you you got nose don't know if the word no dirt on them.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

Oh wes he yeah, the i he wasn't an isolated person.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

And would you have many how many girls or boys have come forward from the Isa region about that so as we touched briefly in the warm-up about St. Olippus and Delaware and what was the stats there to that class?

SPEAKER_05 36:27

When I was um in 2030, I went to Valorat. I was so privileged um to be invited to Dum Victoria Government House for National Survivors Day. I was the only Queenslander, the only non-Victorian, um, and I was invited. Um Land Fence movement um organisation nominated for me to be um selected, and I was selected, or such a privilege. But I got to go to ballot. Where the land fence started there, and and um we ran along to a ceremony that was being held at one of the Catholic schools, and um they were tying ribbons on the fence, and some birds came up to me and said, you know, welcome to the Victor and thank you for coming to see us, and would I like to come and talk to them? And we went down to this stained glass to all the art, but they'd done in stained glass and that's St. Patrick's. Yes, um, and it was done, the stained glasses done like ribbons. Such a beautiful monument, and yeah. The men sat sat on the ground and because there was only one hit of bench seat knife sat on the bench seat, one of them handed me a photograph to look at, and uh there was thirty-five boys in this photograph. And uh 28 of the boys' uh faces had red crosses through them. And I looked at it and I said to the boys, What's this? And out of a class of thirty-five boys, twenty-eight had suicided. Um fun being sexually abused.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

I can tell you what it was uh Sadelebius and um you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh it's a shopping, it's a terrible statistic, and that one glass is is uh And that's not unusual.

SPEAKER_05 38:28

No not unusual. I I think it's the biggest um it's the biggest secret out there. There's so many today, even you know, balls that went to Matt Carmel and Charlestows and girls that went to you know, boarding schools and and not even the boarding schools, you know, today schools. There's so many that still are silent and never we speak. We will never know the true statistics of this absolute scourge on society of what was done. Um it was a you know there was basically it was a Catholic pedophile thing. And there was just so many lives either taken or damaged just forever.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Massive shout out to the legends of the sea bar down on the strand. Now, if you haven't been there, what are you doing? Cold beers, cracking food, and a view over Magnetic Island that'll make you forget every problem you walked in with. But more than that, these guys actually give us stuff about townsfolk. They back the locals, support the community, and create a place where people can come together. And that really matters. It's exactly why we choose to record here. So do yourself a favor, get down the C-bar, grab a drink, soak it all in, and tell 'em a buzz sent you. Zoo, it's um uh a very when do you get a statistic like that? And and horrific. That's where it hits me most. It's it's dies my age in. I Jeff Merlin for Ballarating 90 um. That is I was bloody lucky. Because I left Salesian College at 15, and I said to dad, I said, this this is bullshit. Oh, I just want to go and get a job, and I had to do cow debating. I didn't like it, but I did it. And then Num and Dad bought a supermarket, Mid SS Toby, they probably weren't influenza. Victorian independent growth in Ballarat, and I moved to Ballarat at the age of 18.

SPEAKER_07 40:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Still oblivious to what's happening, but then I had a very big football career, uh Round Region of Victoria, and then I started to learn of the carnage. It's terrible that it happened. And this particular photo you're talking about, I have surviving mates that are in that photo. I won't wait none, but I'll definitely have and mutual you've met you've met them and we'll have them on if they agree to come on. But I'm I'm just thinking Oh no, fucking hell how how how did I miss it?

SPEAKER_05 41:21

And but it's getting bit to that guild of the Yeah, as a surviv as a surviving. Uh you're you've got you've got survivor's guilt because you didn't get affected, yeah. And and that's truth, that's what I'm saying. It's it's there's no one that isn't what's the shocking way I'm gonna describe as no one's untouched. You're either touched physically, mentally, psychologically as the victim, or you are touched as as as someone who didn't become a victim. There's no one that is left unscathed. Um and you know I remember those I'll never forget that photo, sitting there looking at that photo, because as horrific as it was, we may not have had that statistic of suicides from my class. Well, we had a massive percentage of victims in each class. You know, it's just so hard for victims to speak. So that's what I mean we never know the full statistics. You asked me when I sat down here, how many did I think in this restaurant would have been victims of child sex abuse? And I said 50%. Because statistically we know that's the truth.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Um But you're not going to prove it ever.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Well, we'll never know the full statistic because we can only go by those who have spoken.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Do you think there's any correlation between uh this is just a left field question before we close this part two off because part three is about the system.

SPEAKER_06 42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

And we're breaching on it now, and I don't want to get into that. Um for do you think there's any correlation between sexual ablution and progressive domestic violence?

SPEAKER_05 43:04

Oh, absolutely. Oh, God.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Up sorry. No.

SPEAKER_05 43:09

Well, that's without a doubt.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Yeah, and I'm and and that So you're saying that uh that you know, I'm I'm going a bit over the top with you, maybe but maybe not. So a lot of blakes that are in and there are a lot of women that get in the blokes too, so I'm not saying it's one out near, but do you think a lot of the reason guys are in that position is from there's something happened?

SPEAKER_07 43:33

Rage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:35

Rage. I know I was rageful. So, you know In in your relationships.

SPEAKER_05 43:40

Oh yeah, absolutely. I was a rageful person. I was angry. You're angry because and I can remember sitting in I can remember sitting in my sentence saying So have you been married? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 43:52

Yeah. Um Married and I've got three children, which I don't name because they're holding to their privacy. But I'll I'm happy to talk about that, you know, as we go through, you know that. But um you know it I remember sitting in sentencing and I was fifty-five years of age and uh the judge said to Kring, These children are emotionally trapped at the age that the abuse started. They are stunted, they are emotionally retarded. If that's this is the judge. This is what the judge said. Um and I can remember sitting there thinking, oh my god, someone understands me. Because I never understood myself emotionally anyway. I didn't get it, I didn't get the way I was. But all of a sudden in that moment, I I I understood me and I understood where I I I did things or said things, or you know what I mean? Because and then I've since said that to other victims, that what the judge said that day at my sentencing, and they and they've all had this loud bulb moment, like, oh my god, that's me. And it's like we the wall solzen emotionally and mentally frozen at that point of the abyss started.

SPEAKER_03 45:17

Yeah. So and it go you go right back there.

SPEAKER_05 45:20

So So then and then But how does the correlation link to So then if we haven't we had we also don't know what real love is. We don't know what relationships are supposed to be. We haven't had the branding in what a war relationship should look like and how people should look after, how people should be with each other. We've only been known abuse. So we either become the uh and I'm not saying, and I want to make this very, very clear, child sex abuse victims don't go on normally to be child sex abusers. They are actually very protective of not being child sex abusers and to protect the children.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Yeah, it's like it's an old wives tale that was your copy. I'm thinking, how how can that be? Why would that person what's happened then go and do it to someone else?

SPEAKER_05 46:16

Like I think they've got that um they're they're be wrong.

SPEAKER_07 46:20

Yeah, they're s but it is out there, ooh.

SPEAKER_05 46:22

Yeah, they're sick individuals that become child sex abusers.

SPEAKER_07 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:26

Um, but they doesn't they do not have to have been abused sexually to become the abuser. What I'm saying is emotionally, um, and and because we haven't understood relationships and and we haven't had all of that grounding, that then when we go into relationships we don't know how to uh relate to people, we don't have the emotional um uh maturity, we haven't got the emotional regulation. Emotional regulation's very that's a real um big problem with Did you say you're looking for controversy? We're just quicker to flare up, we're quicker to uh I think it's not possible to be loved.

SPEAKER_07 47:10

Be loved. Yeah, we we'll we don't love ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Do you know it's quite interesting to I had had the um and it's totally off the subject, there's talking about self-love and loss. Yeah. And to be able to love someone else or to be you've got to be worthy yourself to the owner. Hundred percent. Right and I can see the bank now I I've had been that successful relationship stakes and my listeners know that 'cause I've talked about the uh the times I've had. But it's only recently and it took a really bad moment for me to be twenty-four hours off death to actually start looking after my health. Yeah. To become worthy. And now that I become worthy, I actually love myself.

SPEAKER_07 47:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

And I don't say love myself in a no arrogant way, but yes, right. I think accepting yourself is sad as Yeah, and so and I I think a lot of my um alcohol alcohol alcoholism and drug taking was because I wasn't living up to my own expectations. I mean very hard on myself, but now that I've gone all fucking nearly died, not and be saying yeah, you're not a bad person, you're doing the right thing, and I do really love what I'm doing now. And I was an asshole. You know, I drank too much and took today. I did it for a reason, and I said to you earlier, I don't know what the reason was yet, but maybe it was that. And to be worthy, which in my case I feel worthy now 'cause I've changed my whole life that it took near death to do it, which is sad. But you yourself now, do you do you do you feel worthy and do you like who you are yet? Or I don't for this is these questions weren't even um And it's a hard one to answer for you, I suppose, because I can't I don't know how you're feeling um I say that I say the hardest thing I ever did was walk through the police doors.

SPEAKER_05 49:10

And the best thing 53. 53 And the best thing I ever did was walk through the police doors and it wasn't just about getting cream convict my conviction for me. It was for me to start knowing me.

SPEAKER_07 49:25

They believed you.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

That I've detected balloony, yes, you did that would have been the first person that believed you. I can say apart from your schoolmate.

SPEAKER_05 49:36

Yeah. Yeah, but I can remember how did they feel? Oh, I r remember this moment vividly. Uh there's a couple of moments with with my detective. One was when I first re you know, it was first reported and they asked could they come to the house? And um I said, don't come, yeah. Most victims don't like authorities. They're both. You know, they're they're they don't have trust, you know, trust is the biggest issue for victims. And I can remember saying, don't come lamb looking like cops, you know, because I hated authorities and I hated cops and everything, you know. And they come up the stairs and I said, Oh fuck, what didn't you just wear a new on, you know, this, you know, Jesus, with pillows written all over it. And then I made them basically sit, the two detectives sit on one side of the lounge rule, and I sat, I think, on the on a chair on the other side. And I'm in the same chur, yeah, is you alive? And I know now they, you know, they wouldn't have come and sat and talked, even started the press if they knew that he was dead. That's my point. But you know, so I didn't know that at the time, so I didn't even know if he was alive or not. So I asked, is he alive? And they said yes. And I said, Well, how old is he? And it wasn't, oh how old is he? It was no how old is he? Like I was angry, yeah, yeah. Angry. And uh sh my detective said he was 78, and I went, Oh, what's the point? Like that. And this was a pivotal moment. You know, I talk about pivotal moments in my life, and this was another one. And I've told her this. She uh she said they didn't care about your age. And I remember saying, Right, let's go, like, let's get on with this.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Yeah, how true is that?

SPEAKER_05 51:21

And I actually didn't go forward to take Crean to court. Um, and to I needed it, I had my own reason, which Governance to be another ethicsake.

SPEAKER_06 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

Um, my own reason for coming forward to police, and we started the process, but there you're so used to not being believed that every single m minuscule thing that I could possibly quit in some energy to prove my truth, I kept doing it, you know, and I kept I found this and I found that and I look on I you know did look at this and looking uh uh bought something in him. I said, you know, and I and one of the girls from my class has got this and see, I told you that in my statement, you know, like it was a rule. See, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 52:01

This was the first person that believed it.

SPEAKER_05 52:04

We're in thesper and in authority, yeah. Did it did it So she actually Did it take didn't it take time to convince her or she was convinced straight I I don't know, you'll have to ask her that, but she sat there and Yo she's yes she is. Would she talk? No fucking I she said I'm in this moment, so he she looked at me and she said, Kathleen, stop And I said what?

SPEAKER_03 52:31

And she said, I believe you can't and I also remember just was fucking amazing. Unbelievable. I just ended the question there, what did that response do to you mentally?

SPEAKER_05 52:44

Um it's still etched in my brain, so now I just remembered probably shock. Shock that somebody in the system actually believed me. And I also remember when I went public and and Chris Beckman sent me an email of e Puddlewing to this day doesn't even remember this. That who'd you say the deputy editor at the time of the Chancel Bulletin. I've been tripping on the phone that morning and I said, you know, I could prove something to him. I'm I'd already been successful with cream in the in the criminal co criminal courts, and here I was trying to c still grieve that I was But he'd already done it. I know this is my victim's think though, you know? And so I said, you know, and he sent me an email and I'd got it. I found it. And he in putting capital letters, you'd believe me. You know, and I actually sat looking at that email just in just in shock.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

So why did Chris Fitvane believe it?

SPEAKER_05 53:50

It's too much evidence.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Coming from and I'll touch on this, I'll do, because I think I can. Newspapers are controlled by the Murdoch media. Uh 100% anything the government wants to get through, they go to the newspapers and I I think they pay them to s put you into L. No comment. I can say this. You can you can no comment what you like. So to get an editor. And but it's only because of overwhelming evidence.

SPEAKER_05 54:20

Well, that's another episode I think we've got planned where you know, round it I get public. Yeah. And I think that will tell you why Chris McNeine did what he did. And he was a good man. And he had to No, no, he didn't have to. No, not at all. But there's a reason, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

Is Chris McMahon stone involved?

SPEAKER_05 54:38

No.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

No. How would he be there?

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Oh, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

Good good men. Uh that's fifty-two minutes and fifty. Yeah, well uh wrap up part two. It could actually be a wrap-up of part three by the time I get some information of this, but uh let's have a bit of a spell. Legends, that was part two of Predator of the Pulpit with Kathleen Walsh. And I'll be honest, that one sits heavy. Not because it's easy listening, because it's important listening. Kathleen didn't come on here looking for sympathy. She came on here with the truth, with courage, with scars, and with a message that might just reach someone sitting quietly in their own plane. So Kathleen, thank you. Humbly, deeply thank you for trusting this platform, for trusting me, and for giving voice to things that too many people have been forced to carry inside us. You're not to blame, you're not to shamed, and you're not alone. Say another day, make that call, send that message. Let someone know you're still here and not okay. In Australia, last one is 131114, big helpline is 1-800-255-1800, and 1-800 respect is 1-800-737-732. And you've also got the crack on foundation with Catholic. Next up is part three. And this is where we step even deeper into the encounterable. The system. Who knew who stays silent? Who moved people on? And at what point does Silent stop being ignorant? And become guilty. That episode is coming next. I must apologize, I haven't been there. But let me rescue ashore. We are working on hard screen now and more recording. This conversation's not please share it. Not for numbers and not for tweets. But because someone out there might need to hear that Kathleen's. And finally, the drive is a good thing. This has been predator in the faulty. What to do with Kathleen Wall? Production powered by an active ego recorded with a beautiful steam bar on the trend overlooking magnetic violence. Look after yourself. Look after your drive. And please tell your hero euros. I'm bad.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

This has been who is your hero?