Who Gave Us The Mic?
The mic landed in the wrong hands, and some conversations were never meant to behave. Ours come with jokes, reads, receipts, side-eyes, and enough nerve to make everybody forget Who Gave Us The Mic? 🎙
Who Gave Us The Mic?
Evolution of Black Sitcoms Part II
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Black sitcoms didn’t just make us laugh they raised us, read us, confused us, and sometimes ended on cliffhangers we’re still mad about.
In this episode, we’re getting into what really makes a sitcom “Black.” Is it the cast? The creators? The stories? The culture? Or is it that special kind of chaos where a joke, a lesson, a family argument, and a questionable dating choice all happen before the credits roll?
From Good Times, The Jeffersons, The Cosby Show, and A Different World to Martin, Living Single, Moesha, The Parkers, Girlfriends, The Fresh Prince, The Upshaws, Abbott Elementary, and more we’re talking legacy, class, respectability, reboots, spin-offs, missing characters, messy finales, iconic parents, special guests, and the shows that shaped how Black life looked on screen.
Some aged beautifully. Some aged sideways. Some need to explain themselves.
Funny, nostalgic, opinionated, and just honest enough to start a debate this is our love letter, side-eye, and full read on Black sitcoms.
I love it!
SPEAKER_00So I just want to let you guys know that this is part 2 2 R Blasticons episode that we released last week. So if you check that out, go ahead and check that out first before you come into this one because it starts made conversation and the whole production tattoo, so check that out. Um you can catch up with us at our link to our socials and as always like, comment, and subscribe. Alright, back to the episode. So, with that, before we we left off, we were talking about um how representation and and how depending on the time frame, you know, some people might want to see a more direct and serious message, and some people are okay with, you know, laughing at themselves a little bit. So I do want to go back to what you were saying, Chaos and ask some questions. So, like, do you you guys feel like all black creators have a I guess a responsibility to represent all black people and characters correctly, I guess, or do you feel like it's okay to exaggerate a little bit? It's okay to poke fun at us a little bit. Like, should we be able to laugh at ourselves? Yes.
SPEAKER_02I I I think that it creates a good balance. I think that it doesn't always have to be like exact, like it can be a little exaggerated, a little extra. Um, it's okay to make light jokes about it. Because I feel like that's what keeps it. Because if I watch something and it's constantly serious and it's constantly just like there's no comic relief in it, I'm gonna lose it, interest in it because I feel like it's like, okay, I need a laugh somewhere. Unless I'm watching something knowing that it's solely focused on like since we're speaking on that, on the black cast and black seriousness and serious things that happen in the black community, then yes, but if I'm watching a especially a sitcom, I feel like all sitcoms need some kind of comic relief. It needs some kind of like something in it to cut through the seriousness of attention. Yeah, exactly. It's needed, so it's fine for us to laugh. Um, and then I'm gonna say this, this might be controversial. It's fine for us to laugh at ourselves because we're laughing because we understand the reference. I like sometimes when white people laugh at it, I'm looking at them like, do you know what the fuck you're laughing at? Do you know why it's funny? Do you even understand what they're saying? Are you just laughing because you see everybody else laughing?
SPEAKER_00Or do you laugh because you feel like you're it's a stereotype that you uh I know that stereotype? Yeah, that brings it to another point, though. So do you feel uh so do people so are they responsible for portraying us correctly so other people don't laugh at us and we don't end up reinforcing stereotypes? Or I mean at the end of the day, go ahead. I'm gonna let y'all answer N and I.
SPEAKER_03I think we I have like uh white folks that I interact with daily. Um and I admittedly sometimes like I think stereotypes are funny. I think if you address them in a certain way. So I think when we are when we have white creators creating shows, and it's maybe reinforcing the stereotype or you know, Republican fun and laughing at it. Um, I mean, I think everybody can be in on the joke, but I also think, yes, uh, with too like what uh Leo said, it it's you walk a fine line because there are some people that are they are for us, you know, and they know how to like I think white comedians, for example. I've seen white comedians make jokes about black stereotypes, but you can tell it's not coming from a place of being offensive, but they understand you know, they they walk a good line, and so they say something you're like, oh that's funny, you're right, that is how black people are, but I can tell you're not saying it to make fun of us.
SPEAKER_02You're not trying to be malicious, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like um, who's the one dude to stand up? Gary Owens. I really like how he does it because he has a black wife in biracial kids. Like I think he really walks that fine line really, really well.
SPEAKER_03And I think to for him, and it's maybe because maybe he's got to experience that a little bit. You have a black wife, you've been around her black family, and you know, you've probably seen these things, and you know, she's probably said things, or you know, so maybe yeah, and I'm sure he runs, and I'm sure those jokes he runs them by her.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure he does, I'm sure he has too. Yeah, like Babe, if I was to say this, you think people would get mad? How I'm sure he does, which is how people should do it. Like, there, yeah, you need to make sure if you have those black friends as a black white comedian or anything like that, it's important to have those black intakes. Like, if you say, Well, if I was to say this, do you think they would take it this way or this way, or how should I say this? I I I definitely agree with that because there's a lot, just like there, I saw this one skit on um, and this is not about a black sitcom, but it it's touching on what we're talking about. Like, I saw a skit where, and it's old, where it was a white man and two black men on the stage. The one black man was sitting in the middle, he was just like the the black man to say the n-word. So it was a white guy that it made it seem like when you when a white man hires a black man to say the n-word. So he had a black friend that he was friends with, and like his black friend said, Hey, do you got the money you owe me? And he was like, No, I ain't got it right now, blah, blah, blah. And the black guy said, Well, I need my money. And so he would use the white, the black guy to to say the n-word. So he would say, Man, chill out. And then the black guy would say, the n-word. So, like, how do it's one of those things where it's like it was funny, but it didn't really cross that line because it was, you could tell it was a joke. You could tell he was being funny. Like, the hell, half of the damn audience was black and they was cracking the hell up. So it's like those fine lines. It's like you have to have somebody to talk to, especially if you even even, I wouldn't even say, even as a black comedian, sometimes we say things about the white community, and I'm not saying, and that's why I don't want people to think like we're not like we're like yeah, we all walk a fine line when we start talking about other races, um, career characteristics or other racist traits or other stereotypes. Like, we all walk that fine line, but it's like I really feel like they probably pass on, like, oh, so I'm gonna go do I have a show in Cleveland tomorrow. Like, I'm gonna use this joke. What do you think about it? Like, I I feel like they probably do that.
SPEAKER_00It's funny you talk about that because there is I noticed something when I was looking up stuff like the use of the N-word in in sitcoms, too. Like, I was watching a clip of Sanford and sign, and I think it was the one the one lady that's I can't remember her name, but shh, she ugly just talk about sucker. But like she was talking to I guess it was Fred Sanford's dad, and you know, she don't like Fred Sanford, and I guess he had told her, like, oh, you know, Fred Sanford is my son, and she stood up, but she was like, What you talking about, nigga? And she said to she said to we're in the audience, like just erupted in laughter, and I'm like, What? So I'm like, clearly, they could freely say nigga back then, and it's like, you know, that would never fly now. I mean, maybe on streaming platforms because they got different, but you know, a lot of people probably would feel some type of way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I I do f I'm trying to think, is there any do they actually say it in a lot of newer sitcoms? The N-word?
SPEAKER_00I think I think they took a stay away from it.
SPEAKER_02Unless it's unless it's we won't even say any. We sitting here talking, we won't we just keep saying the N-word. So we won't even say it right now. So uh I I I do fight there is there's a fine line that you walk when you do these sitcoms and stuff, and when they talk about stuff, they are walking a fine line.
SPEAKER_00It's it's difficult. It's is so with that being said, so we gotta get into because we black creators have a responsibility. And I think with, like we said, the Jeffersons, there was a white man that I produced or create, I don't know if he created, but produced that show, showrun it, whatever the case may be. And I'm like, you are white, you have a more of a moral obligation to make sure that you do it right. I feel like that's when, yeah, if you're another person of a different race, portraying somebody else's culture in a story or something like that, yeah, you have to be more than accurate when you do that. And maybe you do have to be more respectable with your portrayal because what you do in it, I'm sorry, with the way the the the country is, it's just gonna come across as a mockery. Yeah. So with that being said, this goddamn good times reboot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Don't I watch the i I watched the episode because I was definitely curious about just how insanely fucked up it was gonna be. Like, you know, this Seth McFartlane's shows are always his jokes, are always like teetering and cross that line very often. But with a show, especially as heavy as good times, and this is like I have an issue with certain reboots. I haven't watched Bel Air, not that I have a problem with it, but because it's more of a drama, I'm like, eh. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01It's good. I have watched it. I watched the first two seasons. It is good.
SPEAKER_00It looks very good from the clips I've seen, but um it's gonna take me a minute to warm up to it. But Good Times, I just wanted to see how he was gonna fuck it up. We we've talked about it uh previously in the episode, but so he took a show as iconic as good times that dealt with a lot of heavy topic, like especially with living in a ghetto, especially with being a poor working-class family, and he made it animated, first of all, which okay, whatever. But that itself was just it was just a way to disrespect black people on a whole new level. Like, I didn't even see past the first episode because I had seen enough, but like just for context, they had they're back in the ghetto. In case anybody out there listening didn't know because you didn't watch the show, generations later, this is generations down the line from when they moved out of the ghetto at the end of the original, and it is a continuity because they make reference to James and Florida Evans, so they are family to them, and they're back in the ghetto, generations down the line. Don't know how, don't know why, don't know what happened, don't know if he made a bad investment. They back in the ghetto. No explanation. They got uh uh three kids that all have their issues. One, the youngest, uh baby, probably no older than Stewie, is a crack addicted, crack selling baby, on top of all type of stereotypes and just racially disrespectful. It was just it was a fucking mess. I couldn't watch past the second episode, that was enough. Like the fact that the baby was talking with white shit all around his mouth, like, come on, no, like clearly nobody, and then to the black people attached to it. This is ridiculous to John of Steph Curry was attached to it too. I guess he was a producer or something too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and there's the problem right there. Let's just let's just call the elephant in a fucking room because why are we having people who he doesn't even have any talents, experience in making a movie, or doing any of that? And it's like I understand you can say, Oh, well, I had people help me write it, or people involved on it. Well, who? Why didn't you reach out to other black producers and ask them? You're asking Steph Curry basketball.
SPEAKER_00It was Seth McFarland, and it was like, we've seen how he does black people in his shows, the Cleveland show. We see how he do he liked to do races of white jokes, and I'm not gonna lie, some of them I chuckle at. But to take a show like Good Times, you can't, you can't do that type of bullshit that you do on your own shows with a show like this. Right. I feel like he shouldn't have ever been attached to it. I'm equally pissed at whoever gave him the rights to do the damn show because y'all knew better.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But with Steph Curry, like I get you know nothing about television and all that other shit, but you should know about your culture, you should know about how important this is to people. And for it, it just goes to the voice actors and whoever per whatever other person of color was on that production. Like, y'all looked at this and was like, okay, I'm putting my name on this.
SPEAKER_03Sir, I was I'm looking up the cast because I was curious. Again, I didn't even entertain it, right? Um, how do you say her name? Mark Marsai Martin. Um her and then youvet Nicole Brown. Now, Yvette seems like she would be like above that. You know, she seen it. Now I know they didn't damn well. Youvet Nicole Brown didn't look at this and say, you know what? This eats. Let me go ahead and get my you know what? And she's from East Cleveland, too.
SPEAKER_00Nicole gonna love us for this.
SPEAKER_03No, read it. She's from East Lleveland, too. So go ahead, bring her back. We gotta talk to her, actually. Because what?
SPEAKER_00But you you see why I'm I'm so pissed about it though, because it's like all these black creatives and people, and I get like when you were talking earlier about like everything not having to be such a serious take, but you had to be mindful of your source material too. And then to make a direct reference to the original show so people now know it's part of that continuity, regardless of what form it's in. Like you made them direct descendants of James and Florida Evans in that whole clan. Like, y'all knew better. Like, somebody should have, and maybe they did say something, but I would have quit. Fuck a contract, fuck. You're not fucking up the rest of my career.
SPEAKER_03We only made one season, so you know, good, good on people like criticizing it.
SPEAKER_00They highly like, they highly flip, like, I mean, but once again, what reaction did y'all really? I'll even say this to Seth McFarland because fuck that. You are you are aware enough out in the world enough to know like reception that y'all really think that y'all were gonna get out of this.
SPEAKER_02And why did you have to put them back in the ghetto? Clearly, I don't know. It makes me want to ask, did you even watch good times?
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Like, because we do a spin-off and you put them back in the ghetto? And with no reference, no reason on what happened, like how did it end up back there? Like, why are you portraying it back to a negative aspect when clearly when the show ended, it they got out the damn ghetto?
SPEAKER_00And I mean, maybe he explained it later on down the line. I didn't watch the rest of the episodes. I episode one was as far as I could get, but I mean, you honestly don't make people want to stick. You don't that first episode didn't make me care enough to find out why they got down the girl. I mean, like, maybe I could have hung in there a couple more episodes, but the crack addicted crack seller baby took me out. Like, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02But in the first episode, too, though, like that's what I'm like.
SPEAKER_00All the all the fucking stereotypes of disrespectful shit in the very first episode, my guy. You ain't even gonna go to the explanation in it in in the opening intro. You just they back in the ghetto. The baby on crack. By the way, the other kids got issues. Dude, get the fuck out of here.
SPEAKER_03Because it goes back to what we were talking about. There's a fine line between like how you uh talk about the situations, but I think multiple reasons. But a good times is like a good old black classic, right? You very rarely will you run into a black person, maybe older black person, as you know, but like that didn't enjoy good times and like got some like good feels from it, and so you take that show, you put them back in the ghetto, you're perpetuating all these negative stereotypes, and then you think that people are gonna receive it well, you know, here now in 2026, when we are definitely obviously advocating for more positive black images, you know, treated being treated more equally. You're gonna make us a joke. Do I look like a talk to you? Actually, not even that. I got sorry, I went to a different place.
SPEAKER_02I get it, and that's what it is. When I watched it, I was thoroughly pissed. Like, I'm like, are you serious right now? Like, are you for real?
SPEAKER_00I watched with my mouth turned up in disgust, and I was smoking, so I should have been good and ready to laugh, but the share and utter disgust, and I tell you, like, I'm not a guy that good times, I've watched it, I know what it's about. I've seen every episode, I'll watch it every time. It's not something I'll turn on and back to back to back to back, like I can repeat verbato, but it still equally pisses me off because I as just as a person of color, I know what that show is about. I know what that show portrayed, and then for you to just do this, and I would still be equally as pissed, but maybe just slightly less if it was all white people that had done it, because well, what the hell do y'all know? Clearly, y'all ain't bothered watch the show, but they have black people attached to it too. Especially at at a time's form, even at producers, like y'all know better, especially again, goes back to the the time, the times we live in, and especially nowadays, where they're trying to take so much from us and y'all just throw this shit out here like it's it it it's sad, it's really like I'm gonna ask you a question real quick, because how many black families you know readily get cracked to their baby or or let their baby be around crack?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and if they are or like around it, it's not on purpose.
SPEAKER_02You know, I don't I mean they choose it, usually an addict baby either.
SPEAKER_00It's they yeah, they're usually an addict and it's left rather than the table. But the parents ain't even addicts. The parents are trying to do better. So you explain to me how the baby got to the damn crack.
SPEAKER_02And and especially when the good times didn't even have that.
SPEAKER_00No, what even like so with that being said, I'm glad that we can do one thing right as people, whether it be black, white. I don't know how many people and what demographic universally despise this show, but I'm glad that enough of them had enough sense to be like, yeah, Seth McCorley, you got to go the fuck on somewhere. Very glad you had this shit and get canceled.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I I don't know. Like it's just it's one of those things where stick to what you know and stay away from everything else because nobody asks you for a good times reboot, nobody asks you for a good times animation, nobody messaged you and said, Hey, we should redo no good times was good how it was. Leave good time as a good time, not change it into something so negative that you just make us look like we're just like these ignorant people that just do dumb shit, like that's just it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Or if you thought you were doing something, buying the fucking rights. Because a good times could have been a good portrayal of what you know the struggle of working class families was going through. If you thought you was gonna do something big, you should have bought the damn rights, hired all black people, and let them do with it what they was gonna do with it. And let that be that. The only thing your name is attached to is that you own the rights to the show. You should have let all of them do what the hell they was gonna do, and why the fuck didn't you get any of the originals as consultants? Like, they're still alive.
SPEAKER_02Now, they may not be acting and doing all that no more, but they still alive. You can still ask them, like, so what do you how do you feel about this, or do you think we should do this? Like, you the the reboot should have started off with them in Out of the Ghetto. Now, if you want to spin it back till they ended up back there somehow, it just depends on how you would transition it. I don't know, but either which way nobody asked you for this shit. Nobody asked you for it.
SPEAKER_00But you but you know what though, if you was gonna do it, there's a way you could have done it, especially with the way the economy's been. Like, yeah, they could have ended up back in straights after the way the economy's been with the the quarantine. Yeah, like you could have logically made that work, you just didn't fucking care, especially again, like you said, Leo. If you go take a show that nobody fucking asked for and bring it back, bring it back with a fucking purpose, my guy.
SPEAKER_02There was no purpose whatsoever. We're about to get mad because I'm already getting mad because there was no purpose for it. Like, what why? Like, I just I really don't get it.
SPEAKER_00Like there are some reboots that people ain't necessarily asked for, but you they come back and bam, like you said, the Bel Air reboot is this this different world reboot, which sad. No, we have not talked about different world back to your question. About strong black uh cast next to women, different world is definitely in that group, and I forgot to mention them.
SPEAKER_02Oh, trust me, it's it's it's it's on the list.
SPEAKER_00But with a different world coming back, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Chaos, on our other project we did, I had mentioned that I would love to see Different World come back for a reboot or revival because the shit that they tackled and they were probably pretty raw for like the episode with Freddie where she handles sexual assault and all type of shit like that. Like it I can't wait to see how they do things with the shit going on now. Debbie uh the Debbie Allen is back and she's the one, because you know they had a bad first season and they hired her, and she's the one, you know, credited as the one that made the show what it is because she re-vet that show. I can't wait to see what they do. Like, I feel like that's gonna be one that does it right, as long as Seth McFarlane's ass is nowhere in the vicinity, only think his ass should be allowed on the fucking lot to watch it. I said it.
SPEAKER_02I think it's gonna be good. I I I feel like from what I've seen and what I heard about it, I think it's going to be good, but then again, we'll have to wait and see.
SPEAKER_00But they got all the originals back, so I have high hopes. And if they keep that same energy, which with Dad Debbie Allen, I think they can't have that same energy. It's I'm curious to see if they're gonna bring back Lisa Bonnet, because you know Bill snatched her, you know, when Lisa got pregnant, snatched her off the damn show. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03When's it coming out? 38 years, I think it comes out. You said when pause, hold on, pause. When did different world a different world come out?
SPEAKER_02A different world came out. Yeah, it came out in the 80s, I know.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god! I just happened to cause I was like looking into it and I was like, oh, and if there's anything that came out, and I was like, they ended up my Google stuff, I was like, the series is set 30 years after the original Shell's Day view. 38 This came out before I was born. Lord Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it came out like 87, I think. Yeah, hey, because it was a year before I was born, is when it came out.
SPEAKER_00Now some of the characters have passed away, so I don't know how they're gonna address them, but all the originals, or most of them anyway, are back and they just rap production, apparently. They just rap filming and stuff, so it should be out soon. Now that that I wouldn't see. No more. Seth McFarlane, keep your goddamn hands off my motherfucking culture.
SPEAKER_02And and and not even just him, any of y'all. If you are a white producer and you think you're about to take it.
SPEAKER_00You don't have a charge right now, goddamn it. You're the first one to come to mind.
SPEAKER_02But right, you if you try to re-vamp an iconic black sitcom, baby, you better have as many black producers, writers, and stuff that you can because that that that was just terrible. Like, I don't understand why it they even like you said, I don't who even gave him the rights to even do that.
SPEAKER_00I will say this, and I'll I'll even go one better. What she said. Like, if you're gonna attempt to do anybody, I you or chaos said this earlier. If you're gonna do attempt to do anybody's stories, do your damn research. Whether it be if you are not a white person and you're gonna try to tell something from a white person's perspective, talk to somebody. If you're gonna try to tell somebody the story of Arab descent, if you were gonna write a character or a story, even if it's a minor character or a supporting character, talk to somebody. Nowadays it's not hard to find somebody. Even Marvel go and find people to make sure that they do shit as accurately as they can. And I'm like, it's not that hard to find somebody that will talk about their culture. That's all most people want to do anyway, is to be able to talk about their culture and for somebody to fucking listen.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_02But I feel like we've given this thing enough conversation.
SPEAKER_00So moving, so moving on, you guys know that like we had lost black sitcons for a long time. Like for like after like the early 2000s, where they canceled a bunch of the black sitcons, like they disappear. And we get some now, like you mentioned earlier, the Upshaws. Family Reunion is one of my favorites with uh Loretta Divine. It's on Netflix too. But even it's it's wrapped up, it's a series and stuff, so it's no longer making episodes of us. And then we have other ones that like are on black networks, but because they're not main, they're not on these main channels anymore, like they don't get talked about, and they've gone off the air. Like, you know, Omar Epps from Smart Guy, he was in another sitcom with um Angel Conwell from Baby Boy, and it's been off the air, and I only know about it because I've seen episodes pop up on YouTube. Uh, the dude that played Professor Olivey, he was in another sitcom about a barbershop, didn't know nothing about it. It was in 2010, it's off the air. So it's like we're starting to come back a little bit, but do you guys ever feel like we'll be back in that like golden age of like not even just black sitcoms, but black shows in general?
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_02Um I'm gonna say I I'm gonna say to say I don't think so.
SPEAKER_03I really don't think no. Because let me not let me not be shit. Um I so what because when I think about shows like Charles' Great Fan Reunion, I actually did not watch, but um I heard great things about it. Um I I feel like all those shows have like, you know, a good mix of comedy, you've learned something, things like that. But now, like even in my job, whenever people talk about shows, it's always these very dramatic shows, and then in these drama shows, like the most is happening. What's the new one out right now that Tyler Perry has the no, what is it called? Not all the queen.
SPEAKER_00Which one? Sisters, beauty in black, uh lady.
SPEAKER_03Beauty in black is what I'm thinking of. Like, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean it's not for me, but also I'm not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03Drama, like, you know, go all out where we gotta be.
SPEAKER_00Although I did probably Leo laughing because he already knows what I'm about to say. Since you'd have brought this man up, I wasn't gonna name him directly because I feel like he got enough criticism. But thank you for being my next segue because Tyler Perry, like you we all know when Tyler Perry first came out, everybody loved him, this and that, which you know, and you know, he can be credited at least a little bit for reviving black sitcoms, but he gets a lot of criticism for a lot of his portrayals being a little, you know, disrespectful to black people and his stuff portraying these same, these same shit. My personal gripe, beauty and black. I hear so many queer people talk about how, or just people in general, talk about how good that show is, and I've seen a few episodes, clips, and stuff. It's basically uh it needs to be on OnlyFans.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna be that one to say it. I absolutely love Beauty and Black. I when I first saw the first season, I was drawn. I was like, and it's not even because of the sex scenes. Are they great? Yes. I mean, I love how he well, I don't love how he portrays gay people. He I don't like the way he portrays gays. He makes it seem real messy and like all we like is sex and we just fuck this person or fuck that. That's how he makes it sound. I don't like that.
SPEAKER_00And that's my major issue with that show. I can see where it has great like story words and stuff, but like with the way you get a show to portray like gay and quick characters majorly and stuff, and this is how you portray them. Even when he had that gay character pop up, and what was it? Uh what was the one it was Madeas for well played, and then they turned it into a movie, and it was very sanitized how they did that coming out, and like I think they even changed it for the movie, but the boy wasn't even gay. I forget what it was, but like you went from that to having featuring queer characters, and this is how you rate them, and then had that disrespectful ass boy make that comment like all gays and queers are going to hell on his life, these little light-skinned motherfuckers.
SPEAKER_02And I had so much hope for Angel. I I thought Angel, I mean he said, but like, I'm like, you made all these statements about gays, but you basically are fucking gay in the movie. You don't call yourself gay, but you're a stripper who dances and sleeps with men for money.
SPEAKER_00So to other people that would be at least gay for pay, and I'm like, do you feel like that puts you above?
SPEAKER_02That makes you even worse. In my opinion.
SPEAKER_00To me, yes. But in his mind, I guess that makes it's not for real for him. I guess to him, as he tells us it's not for real. Who knows what he doing, anybody watching him? But you know, or I mean, if that's your mindset, why you I mean, you free to have whatever mindset you want to aren't trying to change nobody's ignorant ones, yes. Fuck y'all, but like you have to say it. You had to get on live and you had to say this. Yeah, again, who asked? Nobody.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think now maybe somebody did ask him or something, maybe in his comments, or maybe uh a DM, or maybe it's something that was outside of his life, and the conversation came up, so he felt like he had to make a lie, but it's like these celebrities, and this is what pisses me off about these celebrities, even in these black sitcoms and stuff, when they do have like a gay character, it's how you portray them. It's like most of the time when they have a gay character in a movie, they're always overly sexualized. Like always. Now, I will say in the upstraws, it was none of that.
SPEAKER_00Like they did not do that show and how they did the transgender.
SPEAKER_02But it's like a lot of these new ones when they want to portray, oh well, we have a no, what you're doing is queer baiting. That's what you're doing. You're having these sex scenes, you're having these fine ass, nice body men and everything like that because you're queer baiting. You're doing that because you think that's what the gays want to see. No. Some of them, yes. I mean, just like other people. Hell, you got straight people that want to see it. You know how many straight people is into gay stuff like that, but it's just like hold on now, hold on now, hold on now.
SPEAKER_00We ain't we ain't we ain't made enough money to afford the cancellation. Hold on.
SPEAKER_02We ain't gonna get canceled. I'm I'm making a statement of a fact.
SPEAKER_00Oh, fuck it, go for it.
SPEAKER_02They want to see that. That's what they want to see. Now there's people out there that want to see that, but it's like to for you to portray, and it's almost every, like for Beauty and Black, every episode that portrayed the homosexual part of it, it was always something sexual or always something super dramalized, like they like they were drama, like with the son. Like they make him just sing, just seem like a whore. Like he just drops it for anybody.
SPEAKER_00I remember the one scene when the mom cut him fucking through the window and she went in there and was beating his ass tough. But if you don't get your and his mom and they're cussing at him and he's still fucking it's shit, like if you show ass, I'm like, nah, nah, come on. Probably.
SPEAKER_03Well, he's not even neither.
SPEAKER_00And I would say this: if you gonna write queer characters and stuff, and I'm not saying everybody has to be the character that they play, it's called acting, but at the very least, if you're not gonna hire a quick care a queer person to play a queer character, hire somebody who knows what the fuck they're talking about, who is at least an ally or is at least knowledgeable about the shit they're talking about. You didn't hire this ignorant motherfucker, and he probably done got on there and tanked your ratings. Congratulations. I'm sure he did.
SPEAKER_02Granted, I haven't watched none of the new episodes of it, but because after all that little stuff, and I don't know, I just I'm like, come on now.
SPEAKER_00Because we don't cliff, I'm ready to go back to the paint. We don't get a lot of that's a sad.
SPEAKER_02I love it when they portray gay characters in these sitcoms, but I sometimes hate how they portray them.
SPEAKER_00So I was gonna ask that about y'all, like, how do we feel about queer representation in our shows? Like, is that from then to now?
SPEAKER_02I think it's better. Well, it's it's a lot better, yeah. There's there's a lot more representation, I should say, yeah, of it, but how they represent it is where I have a problem with. Yeah, I'm happy that they're there like a lot more shows and stuff. It's like, for instance, uh, you even seen a lot more like ads and stuff when people post ads or you take trainings. Like, I took a training at my job, and they actually one of the the scenarios in the training was a gay couple. Like, and I'm like, I like to see that, but it's like it's a lot better than what it was. I think before they would always hint, it was always like that hint, like where that character would come so close to kissing another another same-sex partner, but then it would cut off, it would cut things off.
SPEAKER_00Or it was an exaggerated version of what gay could be like. I think you brought this up, Chaos, when we were talking behind the scenes about the in the house thing with RuPaul and how they had RuPaul play what was it? Um, they had him play a straight man doing drag instead of a gay man doing drag.
SPEAKER_02And this man is gay as hell.
SPEAKER_00Come on, Maddie Morrison. And everybody knows RuPaul. Come on, Matty. Which I mean, nothing wrong. I appreciate the representation of straight men doing drag, but RuPaul was definitely not a straight man doing drag. And especially in the 90s, I think he would have done more of letting RuPaul be the queer person doing and I you brought this up about the issues RuPaul had behind the scenes when filming that episode. So I know RuPaul is one of them people queer that was on every blessed sitcom. Sister sister, RuPaul popped up in a bunch of them.
SPEAKER_02A lot of them, he was in a ton of them, yes.
SPEAKER_03But see, like what when RuPaul drag popped up, RuPaul was always in drag. So, and then we go back to talk about like when you talk about queer characters, especially in these, I guess, early 90s, late 90s, 90s, 2000s. Um, RuPaul's doing drag, or you have like this very feminine, like, ooh, girl, yeah, da-da-da-da-da. And that character tends to be a lot more digestible. Like, yes, straight men are still gonna hate that character either way, but then they're like, Oh, yeah, this is how like gay people are, they're just hairdressers and they're just all fabulous, and they're snapping and clicking and twisting and dipping, you know.
SPEAKER_02All they look at us is for is for the fashion.
SPEAKER_03Uh oh. That's how they even they know how to dress, you know.
SPEAKER_00Or the gay men are just they're oh, they're so scared of it. They're they're so scared of uh of I'm gonna say coochie. I don't feel like Sam's the brand. Yes. I like or oh my god, like even in America, oh my god, I seen it. Like you came out of one. God damn, you know what a coochie look like. Stop it.
SPEAKER_03I think, but I I think to go back now, there's been a lot more representations and there's been a lot more stories being told, and even if the show isn't queer itself, I think they are trying to write queer characters better and giving them more of a better storyline. Representing, you know, you talk about the upshaws, their characters, uh, I can't remember the actor's name, I just know Obi. Because I know Obi gets introduced later on. Obi Jones is his last name. Um, yes, the the main guy was like a gay black male, but he wasn't like very effeminate, he was still like very much portrayed as just like a regular dude. Like, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02You never know he was gay, unless if he would have never said it, you'd have never known.
SPEAKER_03True. And that's the thing, and that's how it should be, you know, because there's different facets to us. Like, yes, there will be shows where you maybe do have a more flame-blank character because those people are real and they exist in our community. But just like you know, in the upshaws, we have some people that maybe not that they're like not in like queer culture, but maybe they're they don't express themselves that way, you know. They still will tell you I'm gay, I love men, whatever it might be. They don't express themselves that way, and that's totally fine too, as well, because there are more masked men in our uh community, you know, that yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_02They're masculine, they're but they're and they're not the, they just are not feminine. That that's all it is.
SPEAKER_00And they just prefer, like, I hate this whole thing about DL versus private. And I'm just like, just because somebody does not openly discuss or just come into the room and announce their whole being to the world, you know, that does not mean that this person is ashamed or in the closet or something. Like privacy is universal, regardless of who the fuck a person is. Like, I don't understand why y'all feel like because somebody isn't, you know, what you would deem acceptable, they have to completely divulge the entire soul to you upon meeting your gaze. Like, no.
SPEAKER_03I think that's something our community can do better too, as well. You know, I think sometimes, like, yes, if you are more of a private person, or if you're, you know, you're yeah, you're gay and you just don't express it the same way everybody else does. And that's even a sense of like using like, oh girl, or yes, or clock it, you know, when you start using like these ballroom terms, which they can't they came from ballroom, let's go ahead and just address that now. Black people.
SPEAKER_00Use them, use them right. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03You know, you're doing these things, and those people just don't express themselves that way, and that's fine. You know, it doesn't take away from them being a gay man or a queer person um at all. You know, just hey, maybe I just don't choose to, you know, be out there like that, and that's okay. You know, there's nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_00And maybe, and maybe I am when I'm around people that I fucking know, but I don't I mean, who do like like I people think I don't understand that that either way? I don't know none of y'all. Like how I act around people, I actually know it's completely different. How I act around strangers. I I don't know none of y'all to be having fun with y'all and all of that. Like, I hate when somebody be like, Well, I didn't expect you to this. I also don't know you either. If you want to see me twirl to hit the ground, you have to catch me in after hours. I don't know what to tell y'all.
SPEAKER_03And the last thing on this, it's not really a sitcom, but we had talked about representation, pose as one of those shows. I listen love pose. I feel like oh it trans focus.
SPEAKER_00But I will I will I will put that in there, especially as a black queer-led show. It's definitely needs to be in there.
SPEAKER_03Listen, for everybody listening right now, you want to watch representation, you want to learn about ballroom culture, go watch that. You are going to cry. I'm crying tearing up just thinking about it because I'm thinking about some of those episodes.
SPEAKER_00I think it's it definitely ended too early. It did.
SPEAKER_02Well, they they were talking, I think they were talking about bringing it back from from through. I think they were talking about because that was an amazing uh show.
SPEAKER_00Especially especially for like the accuracy of what they did, and it was because they talked to people who knew what the fuck they were talking about, whether they'd be queer, straight, and in the ballroom scene, or had or been around people, they knew what they were doing. And uh the show ended in the 90s. Like, no, there's way more stuff that needs to be covered. The 90s wasn't the end of anything.
SPEAKER_01So so good.
SPEAKER_00Uh there definitely needs to be definitely needs to be on that list. That is on my mount rush more. Definitely. So I I agree with you guys. I do think like it's um how do I say this? Fuck it. So like I do agree we've come a long way, but I do think like we still get to, we still have to get over this hurdle of what is socially acceptable to a lot of people when it comes to especially queer representation, because I think we still get a lot of this is our gay, but you know, he's not that kind of gay, or they're not that kind of gay. Like, I want to see, I think we still could do better, especially with trans representation. Like, I I don't see many trans men, especially, and I'm gonna say this we see them, but not ones of color.
SPEAKER_04True.
SPEAKER_00Let's be let's be honest. I've seen trans men characters before, they're usually they're usually white people. Like even on even on euphoria, they have a trans woman there. I I love Hunter. I I I think her character's dope, but like what is going on? Uh it's it it she's the only trans character on the show that I'm that I'm aware of, and it she's white.
SPEAKER_03And that you know, and she's probably more digestible, I guess.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna say, and there's and there's and this is nothing towards her. That's that's not that's not her fault. Yeah, but like we have to get over that hurdle of like, like, I I need to see more trans men, I need to see non-binary people, like or like we don't talk enough about bi-erasure. We don't see enough truly bisexual people or pansexuals or things like that. Like people always saying they don't, they don't they don't want to have these conversations because they don't know how or they're afraid how people are gonna react. And it's like, I get that. It also would help if they seen more of it before people get into y'all want everything to no, but it would help with the fucking conversation if people actually seen a little bit of it portrayed on TV, so they had a little bit, it would help with, especially older people, it would help with understanding of exactly what it is, especially when it comes to pronouns. Because even as a queer person, I had difficulty sometimes, and sometimes I still forget.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think I mean when that's very real. Um mentioning that because us now he has trouble with pronouns, um but he You just extract yourself, right? You know, you ask questions and you try not better understand, but yeah, you can't learn more if you're not in no speaking conversation. I think where we talk about pronouns, um, even us still that have been in the community, you know, all our lives are you know, really kind of getting into it, we still have trouble. You know, you mentioned that. And I think you know, you have to be willing to learn. And I think even you know, I know for me personally, I have a hard time sometimes with non-binary. Um, you know, when people are transitioning and things like that, I do have a hard time remembering, like, oh, this person goes they then pronounce, or they use, you know, he, they, she, you know, whatever it might be. And I take the opportunity to try to learn from that person, I'll ask, or I really make it a point to like learn that person's name and really try to get to know them too as well, because you know, we're also learning, and I want to be respectful of people because if I want to be respected, then I need to be respecting these people too, as well, you know, and how they identify.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I and I think it comes down to when you see it portrayed or you have something to like at least see a representation of, it makes it easier to have those conversations. You don't feel so like antsy, because I mean you never know how somebody's gonna react, but I do think it makes it easier because when I have a trans cousin, uh she just changed her name, and I'm like, okay, because bear with me, because you know it's gonna take me a while to remember you changed your name to this.
SPEAKER_02It's like, but well, what makes me mad is when you meet somebody for the first time and you don't know the pronouns, you don't know what they go by, and they get so offended and snap at you and be like, Oh, that's not me. Like when I used to do completely off topic, when I used to do karaoke and people would sing, I would adjust them as what I see. I'm like, oh, well, give it up. She did an amazing job. And a girl walked over to me, she got mad, and she was like, I don't go by she, I go by vei. So I will please preach it if you call me Vay. And I just kind of looked at her and I was like, Well, first off, do you know me? She was like, No. I was like, Do I know you? She's like, No. I was like, so this is our first interaction. So before you come at somebody angry and irritated with them, you just need to have a conversation because I don't know you. I don't know what your pronouns is. It's not labeled, it's not on your forehead. I don't know. So it's like we we need to learn how to like just educate and just tell somebody without capping an attitude or getting mad. And and and that's the biggest thing going on, too.
SPEAKER_00And be okay with people asking and not knowing. I'm one of the most like I you can't tell. Like when you see somebody and you don't know them, you they they're mass presenting, you don't know if they're non-binary, transitioning this or that. I get girls at work, they feel like when they talking to me, they forget and they be like, oh, bitch, and they'd be like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, girl, I don't care. I know I got a dick. I am perfectly fine. Like, it don't matter. I know what it was, it's fine. Like, we have to not be so touchy about certain things, too. And I'm like, it's fine. Nobody knows without me telling them that I'm a queer pansexual. It's it is what it is. You can cry that it's he, it's he, it's they, it don't matter. I don't care.
SPEAKER_03And that he had fun because I know we were gonna start wrapping up. I think and it's hard to because in queer spaces, I know we're like being taught to like start asking, like, you know, oh hey, you know, my name is Terrell, it's nice to meet you. What's your name? And then what are your pronouns, right? You know, I run at you know, I run a nonprofit, and so when we're having these, you know, meetups and you know, we're getting people together. I don't even think to ask that because I live, I work in a space that's the binary. So if someone looks like a female, they you know are genuinely a female, or vice versa, they're male. But when I'm in more like queer spaces, I have to be mindful and remind myself to be like, well, let me introduce myself and then like what are your pronouns? So I did avoid that, you know, that initial awkward conversation. Obviously, Leo is very different for you when you're doing the karaoke thing. You know, there's not a not always an opportunity to sit and talk to every person lined up, you know, you know, that kind of situation, but you know, definitely leading and asking, you know, that initial encounter might make it a you know a little easier, but that's just something you feel like it should be represented in black sitcoms more, the pronouns, yes. I think it would be easier.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, any sitcom. I mean just black, any sitcom.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I think it'd be easier for people to remember it, and then now like it first off, off topic, it's not that hard to just call somebody by their preferred pronouns, and when people get all upset, like I don't use pronouns, you do actually every day. When you refer to yourself as he me him, or you talk to your cousin, you call him he him. You guys are using pronouns. I don't know if you know English, but you know, we use pronouns every day. So let's go there.
SPEAKER_00Yep. All right, so with that being said, I got one final question for y'all. With the modern sitcom that we have, no, which sitcom and which modern black sitcom could you guys see being the next classic, the one that picked up the torch and carried it for us for the next generation?
SPEAKER_01Is there any that really does that? I have one.
SPEAKER_00I have one that I could definitely give it to. Maybe not yet, because I feel like it's still it's still hitting it strike, but it's already proven that it's it's got that. I definitely would give it to Miss Pat Show.
SPEAKER_02I feel like if it's given, I was gonna say that too. I was about to say that same thing. Oh, I say if I had to pick one, I'd probably say the Miss Pat Show. I might be because the rest of them, I'm like, well, first off, the other ones aren't even on anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so uh the I was yeah, I would have to agree. The Miss Pat show probably definitely has the biggest opportunity to do all of that.
SPEAKER_00I feel like if it's not stalled at any point in time, it would be this generation's living single, Mario and the guitar. I feel like it would be it, it'd be that one day everybody's gonna walk back from like, yeah, maybe the Miss Pat show. If if it's if it continues where it's at now, even with the way it's handles stories already, that's that's my pick.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I I I when you said that I was looking at my list and I'm like, the only thing I could say is the Miss Pat show. Like, because I ain't giving up Tyler Perry. Hell to the gnome.
SPEAKER_03Which what is it? Uh that isn't that still going on?
SPEAKER_00Uh House of Pain. Let's give it the Tyler Perry, beauty of black. It's gonna carry us forward into the next century, guys. You ain't got no choice.
SPEAKER_02A different different type of century. Yes, for everybody can't. That's really the only one. I mean, because even like House of Pain and all his other ones that's still going, they don't really I don't know, I don't see it. I just don't.
SPEAKER_03I don't know the first, especially.
SPEAKER_00Because a lot of them we still have.
SPEAKER_03Oh, go ahead. Didn't they cancel it? I mean, didn't it like drop off and then it picked back up, right? House of pain.
SPEAKER_00That's what I was about to say. Like, I feel like when they like cancel shows and bring them back too much, it like hurts the because the game is back, it's back on Paramount, but the game has been brought back so many times that I don't care. And I feel like y'all brought it back so much that whatever legacy it had, because it was a dope show, it's tainted now because y'all just keep bringing it back. Man's cool. Wait, and y'all ain't even got Derwin and Melanie to come back. It's like y'all keep reviving this thing and it's just on life support, just let it die.
SPEAKER_02I did like when they brought it back, and then like brandy and stuff was in it. It was pretty good. But then after that, I don't know when it canceled again and came back again, it just was not the same.
SPEAKER_00Because she's not on there either. Her character story uh storyline wrapped up, so she's not even on there no more. It's just like it's done, you guys.
SPEAKER_02But I would probably say, yeah, Miss Miss the Miss Pass show definitely probably right now is the sitcom to keep an eye on.
SPEAKER_00All right, so with that being said, you guys, we've talked a lot. We've talked about representation, we've said some stuff to get us canceled, we said some stuff that might say this. We will see after this episode comes out. You know, you can talk a lot about black sitcoms. Some of them might be up for debate, some of them, you know, might be a little problematic and stuff, but you can't argue the fact that they did what they needed to do for the time and for the culture, and they helped teach us a lot about trying to navigate through this crazy ass country and this life. And in some cases, it raised us and they gave us a place to look at and feel seen. So, with that being said, you guys let us know in the comments who would be on your Mount Rushmore of all time picks for black sitcoms. And until next time, we'll see you. Say goodbye, you guys.
SPEAKER_01See y'all later.