Quiet Courage

Ep 11: People-Pleasing, Confidence, and the Courage to Say No | with Lonna Dille

• Kaycia Ellingsen • Episode 11

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Connect With Kaycia Here!

Many women spend years putting everyone else's needs ahead of their own—until they find themselves exhausted, overwhelmed, and wondering where they went.

In this episode of Quiet Courage, Kaycia sits down with therapist and EMDR practitioner Lonna Dille to talk about confidence, people-pleasing, boundaries, and the courage it takes to stop shrinking for others.

Together they discuss:

• Why people-pleasing is so common among women
• How trauma and the "fawn response" can keep us stuck
• The connection between confidence and boundaries
• Why saying "no" doesn't require an explanation
• How to stop giving 100% to everyone else
• The importance of asking for help
• Hard conversations that strengthen relationships
• How self-care helps you show up better for the people you love

If you've ever struggled with burnout, overcommitting, or not showing up for yourself, this episode is for you.

Connect with Lonna:

https://dot.cards/lonnaredefyne

Connect with Kaycia:

www.kayciaellingsen.com

Grab one of Kaycia's books here.

Welcome And Why Confidence Slips

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Quiet Courage, the podcast for anybody ready to show up and be seen. I'm Keisha, and here we explore self-worth, courage, and personal growth with action steps, personal stories, and encouragement to help you claim your power and live confidently. Remembering, your worth isn't something you have to earn. Here, we practice living in it every day. So let's take small, brave steps together and start building the lives we've been dreaming of. Hello and welcome to the Quiet Courage Podcast. I'm Keisha, your host, and today we're talking about confidence. The confidence to show up well in your life and the things that may be behind why you're not feeling confident, right? Is there a subtle people-pleasing tendency in your life that's overriding your boundaries? Are you saying yes to all the things when you really know in your deep heart in your heart of hearts that you should say no? This is the kind of conversation that we're gonna get into. And my friend Lana Dilly is joining me today. She has her master's in social work. She also does EMDR sessions in her therapy and as well as couples therapy and a whole host of things. But most importantly, she is an extremely confident woman. She's great at setting boundaries, and she's great at telling you what she actually thinks. Not the sugar-quoted version that that might not hurt your feelings, but she's gonna tell you the truth. She is a shining example of standing in your worth, knowing who you are, and not compromising for other people. She knows how she wants to show up for her family, she knows how she wants to show up for her clients, and she knows how she wants to show up for herself, and she's able to do those things well. So I thought it'd be a great thing to bring her on the podcast and talk about this confidence that she has in herself, what she sees in her clients, and how she helps people work on their confidence and work on showing up better for themselves. You're gonna love this conversation. Let's jump in. Thank you, Lana, for coming onto the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you today. As I've mentioned before in the intro, you are a very confident person. And I'm so excited to talk to you about confidence because I feel like this is a place that a lot of women struggle. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. Yeah, this is gonna be fun. So, what are the most common pitfalls you see

People-Pleasing And The Cost Of It

SPEAKER_01

in women who don't show up fully or doubt their worth?

SPEAKER_00

People pleasing. So that's the simple answer, right? There's lots of reasons people don't show up for themselves, but people pleasing is probably the one I see most for women. And uh people pleasing is really interesting because it is a learning and it can also be a trauma response. So just because you're people pleaser doesn't mean you have experienced trauma, but it also can be a trauma response. People pleasing in women is a learned behavior because they go, oh, well, if I do this, it's it's behavioral, it's observed, it's big responses shutting women down to try to keep the peace, to not be too big, too loud. Um, it's really women minimizing themselves to hope for a better outcome. And it can be really detrimental to authenticity and to confidence and to burnout. Burnout is huge with people pleasing because if you give everything to make sure everybody else is okay and to make sure everybody else is good, I get women here burnt out, not knowing why. And it's very easy to see what people pleasing looks like in that

Fawn Response And Trauma Basics

SPEAKER_00

scenario. But people pleasing can also come from trauma. So trauma uh happens when the amygdala has a threat or perceived threat and it shuts down the rest of your brain. So the amygdala does a really good job of keeping us safe. So if a tiger walked through that door right now, our brain would shut off everything except for that amygdala. And the amygdala has four things available to it fight, right? You know what that is, flight, run, freeze, again, straightforward, and fawn. Do you know what fawn is?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I've heard of it. I learned about it about five years ago, but that's one that's not commonly talked about.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. Could you explain fawn for the elicitors? Yes. So fawn is people pleasing, pacifying, making it all okay. So we see this in like domestic violence, right? Think of a kid whose parents are engaged in domestic violence. They learn to keep the peace because it keeps them safe. So if you're a people pleaser, again, it could just be emotional, it can be lots of things. But when it's a trauma response, it comes from I have to keep people safe. And it's often comes from seeing it for others. It could be for yourself, like they it could be you could have been the victim, and you're trying to just keep the peace to keep yourself safe. Um, but yeah, fawning is people pleasing, it's making sure everybody's good so you're safe. It's liter, it's literally a nervous system response that says, Well, if I just keep everybody happy, I'm safe.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And I and I've seen that um play out in my life earlier in probably like five, ten, probably ten years ago, as I would I was a huge people pleaser, and I found myself in this cycle of, well, let me just do everything I can to make sure everybody's good. And then another request would come, and I feel like I'm at my end of my rope, and I'm like, I can't give anything more, and then I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna figure out a way. I'm gonna try to like just do more and do it better and make sure people are happy. And it can be a very um depleting time in a woman's life to be caught in that cycle of people pleasing. I often find that sometimes women have a hard time identifying if they are a people pleaser, it's just part of who they are. It's like it's like you learned idea. Yeah. How do you help women identify if they have people pleasing tendencies?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty point blank about it. Uh, you know me. Uh I literally just call it out and I'm like, do you recognize that? Because a lot of times um women are coming to me because they're burnt out, they're overwhelmed, or they're recognizing I have stuff I've never dealt with, and it's haunting me now. But a lot of times, all wrapped up in that is people pleasing. And so I just had this last week where I had a new client. Um, I recognized it right away, and I said, Hey, do you know what you're doing? And we we talked the exact same thing I just said, right? Here's the trauma responses, here's yours. And um, she said, Yeah, I know I'm a pleased people pleaser. And I said, Okay, the first thing we do is you have to recognize it. And truly, I said, now that I said that, here's what it looks like, right? It looks like putting everybody's needs before yourself, giving 100% at work, and then trying to come home and give 100%. Oh, but also you're taking care of your family needs, the family dynamics, you're taking and like extended family, you're taking care of bills and sports and all these things, right? You're literally trying to do it all at 100%. And then you come in here and go, oh my gosh, I'm so burned out. Of course you are. Of course you are. So the first piece is awareness. You have to start seeing what you're doing. And then we can start to work on it. We can start to set boundaries. That's a huge one.

EMDR Explained With Clear Metaphors

SPEAKER_00

Setting boundaries, we can address it with EMDR. So I um I have specialty training in EMDR, which is eye movement desuscitation reprocessing. Highly effective form of trauma therapy. Um, and okay, don't forget to bring me back to this boundary setting thing. But what we do with EMDR is we reprocess traumatic events. So again, if you witness domestic violence, some people will go, well, it didn't happen to me. No, but if your brain said you were scared and threatened and there was a perceived threat, that's enough for your brain to have shut down, to do go back to that fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, and you are scared, which means you have triggers. EMDR reprocesses those scenes to reduce or remove all triggers so that you can move forward. Right? We don't erase memories. I have people joke all the time, you're gonna hypnotize me? No. But I'm going to take away all your reaction to these memories so they don't have to hold you back anymore. You can move forward, which is super cool. So when we do that, so when the amygdala takes over the brain, right? It shuts off everything else. Logic, critical thinking, reasoning. Uh, you're tired, doesn't matter anymore, right? You have to go to the bathroom, that no longer is important, right? Again, everything's shut off. So it does a really good job of keeping us safe. That's the amygdala's job. The problem is, is that once we're done with that experience, right? Once the adrenaline and the cortisol, all that stuff is worn off, our brain was shut down. And so it no longer has the ability to go through the prefrontal temporal lobe, which is responsible for critical thought, reason, and logic. This is why people look at it and go, I don't understand why it's such a big deal to me. It didn't have a chance to go through there because it was literally shut down at the time. So that's why it's a big deal. So it skips that and goes back into this file in your brain called long-term stored memory. And it stays there. The problem is that file is basically on fire. But yet it's like, oh, we'll file it away. And then you want people wonder, like, well, why is it randomly start on fire again? Well, we never put out the fire, we just shoved it in long-term memory. Like, just let it sit there. Yeah. And not deal with it. Just like it's simmering there, right? And then all of a sudden you open the file, it gets oxygen, and poof, the flame again, right? Well, we never really put the fire out. We just hit it. We deprived it of oxygen and called it good, right? But every time something happens, every time that drawer is open, it's on fire again. EMDR reprocesses it so there's no more fire. It's just there. It's done. But it also gives it a chance. We literally remap it and desensitize it by putting it in this prefrontal temporal lobe so you can think about it. It is, I'm not gonna lie, like it's tough, right? Imagine pulling out the deepest, darkest, grossest things, focusing on them, right? But we use eye movement and bilateral stimulation to desensitize it so that when we're done, it can just be a file that stays in storage and doesn't have to have any no fire. You know, we don't need fire extinguishers all the time. It's just there and done.

SPEAKER_01

And by fire and fire extinguishers, I envision like it's the emotional load that's attached to that memory that doesn't have to bring up a huge response from your body.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Emotions, responses, nervous system, body sensations, all of it can be gone. So the other way I like to explain it to people is imagine having a big cut on your arm, right? You have this giant cut, but instead of dealing with it, we just bandaged it and then kept moving forward with life, right? Because usually that's what happens. It's a it's a pretty natural response, right? We gotta keep trucking on, that's the phrase, right? Yeah, pull it up by your body.

SPEAKER_01

Some people don't have like the skills without another uh person coming alongside them to know how to handle this. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because most of us weren't taught how to deal with this, right? Um so what I tell people EMDR does is we're gonna take off the bandage. This wound did not heal. It's gross, it's infected, it's yuck. But this time we're gonna clean it up, we're gonna clean it out, we're gonna stitch it up and take care of it. The scar will still be there. I can't take away the scar, but it's not gonna hurt. There's not gonna be a reaction every time we touch it. It's just gonna be there, and that's it. It's just there. And that's that's the amazing part about EMDR is and that's what makes me cry when I do EMDR is not hearing people's stuff, but watching them be able to walk away from it is the coolest part of doing EMDR. So super, super cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that brings up the point that people are so resilient, which makes me excited about this conversation of people who feel like they are stuck in people pleasing tendency and they're so deep that it's become part of who they are, and they're not sure how to untangle themselves from the web of people pleasing and the the world that they've built around themselves that now expects them to people please. But the fact that people are resilient and you can change, you can change major things about your life. Absolutely. So, for those women who are chang working on changing those things and setting the boundaries, what does that boundary setting look like?

Boundaries That Sound Like No

SPEAKER_00

Yes, thank you for bringing me back. So, boundary setting is a big one, okay? Um, the other one is balance. So, boundary setting um is saying no, right? Without excuses. That's the hardest part, I think, for a lot of women. Is they'll be like, oh no, we're busy tonight. You can just say no. You don't have to make excuses. And I don't know if it's like a cultural Minnesota thing or if it's like a women, there's definitely societal pieces there, right? We're expected to be perfect as opposed to be brave, but we're allowed to say no, right? And so saying no without making any excuses, right? And I mean if you want to provide a reason, you sure can. But most of us go, oh well, I can't tonight because I'm busy or because I no, you are allowed to say no.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's almost like they we are expecting ours ourselves to say yes unless we have a valid reason. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And that is you taking care of yourself is enough of a valid reason, right? So um if you're tired, like just say no. I'm wiped. Or you can just say no, right? It can be um, like I I'd love to join the PTO. Oh, so as it turns out, it's too much for me. Both responses are okay, right? It could be like, Yep, I will absolutely provide cookies, but I'm going to pick them up from Costco instead of making them from scratch, right? Like, it could be yes, I will stay late tonight, but then I'm gonna come in late tomorrow because I need to balance that time for my family. Right? So it's saying no, saying yes to the things you want to do. And sometimes we have to say yes out of responsibility, like I get that, right? Life doesn't just stop, but we don't need to do things that drain us either. So saying no without excuses, I people really struggle with that one.

SPEAKER_01

I can yeah, and I can see that for a lot of women in my life. Um, and I think it might be a cultural thing as well. A lot of people that I know are reaching and trying to strive for this I got it all together image, right? Which if we are all expected to have it all together, like that's that's not reality, right?

SPEAKER_00

So there was a really interesting study that talked about this with women and men. So statistically, parents of boys and girls will parent stricter on the girls and less strict with the boys, and that translates into girls feeling like they have to be perfect while boys learn to be brave. So, for example, how did that translate into adulthood? Boys in adulthood would apply for a job that they are only 60% qualified for, while women wait till they're 90 to 100% qualified simply because they learned that they have to be perfect while boys were taught to be brave. And I've seen this a lot. Where why why are they being chastised for the same behavior? But it's okay for the boys, right? So very subtle messages make a big impact. So, um, any parents listening, teach your girls to be brave. Teach them to be brave, not to be perfect, teach them to be brave. It's a beautiful, wonderful asset. So good. So the other way that women can stop people pleasing, um, and I mean men too, realistically, we just do tend to see it a lot more in women because of this perfection and this standard and this idea that we're supposed to be perfect and just have it all together inherently. Um, so the other big one is not giving 100%. What do you think about that? What's what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01

About women not giving 100%. Instantly in my mind, I'm like, oh, that's not what you're supposed to do. Yeah, right? Yeah, you're supposed to give 100% and then if it doesn't work, try harder. Yeah, right. That's that's the mental talk that's coming up for me. Of course you're exhausted.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Why wouldn't you be? Yeah. So I okay.

Stop Giving Everyone 100 Percent

SPEAKER_00

So for some context, right? I have been in this field for what year is it? 2026 13 years now. Okay. A lot of women uh will go into teaching, nursing, social work. Why? Those are the helping fields. The helping fields, right? So, in addition to doing this, I also teach as an adjunct uh teacher, right, at the local college, and I love it. And it's one of my favorite things to do because I get to tell them this before they ever enter this field, is a couple things. A, if you're coming into the helping professions, I guarantee you you're here because you had an experience that said, I want to help people, which is great. And I love that, right? That creates compassion and empathy and all the good things. But what it also does is it breaks open these wounds. Right. And so people come in and they're like, This is gonna heal me. Nope. It will not heal you.

SPEAKER_01

It's gonna give you more to work to deal with.

SPEAKER_00

Opposite. It's going to break open your wounds. So I tell people, you have to keep working on them because you can absolutely come into this field with wounds. That's not a problem. But you have to be actively working on healing them because when you experience these clients and patients or whatever, they will rip open these wounds and it will hurt more than you realize. And so you have to be putting in the work to come into the helping professions. You have to, or it will wreck you. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I feel like a lot of people pleasers, women who tend to jump into those helping professions, um, they are a certain personality type. And sometimes they thrive off of helping people, but they will drive themselves down. Yes, at their own expense. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yep. So that's where the healing piece has to come in. You have to be actively working on your own stuff. And this is the other big piece that I really push, and I love this every class. I do this class every fall. Um, specifically, so I have a social work background, so it's ethics and social work. Um, but it's all for human services helping professional fields. And I I asked the same question. So, what are you supposed to give to your clients and your patients? Like, what what level of professionalism and ethic ethical standards should you be providing to clients? What do you think the answer is?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, my gut response would be like, oh, 100%. But based off of what you've said previously, I'm like, I think less.

unknown

I think less.

SPEAKER_00

Right? So yes, that's and that's most people's response. We have to give them 100%. And I look them dead in the eyes and I say, but if you give 100% to them, how much will you have left to give to your family at home? Yeah, true story. I know. And I watch them go, oh crap. But they come in with this mentality of they deserve 100%. I disagree. Now, my ethics specifically, so the NASW Code of Ethics specifically says we have to care for ourselves ethically and professionally to provide the best care, which is absolutely true, right? Which is essentially people pleasing in a nutshell. We have to take care of ourselves to be able to care for others, both professionally, ethically, and at home. And so what I tell people is if you give 100% to your clients during the day, and then that's your eight to five, and then you go home and you have two percent left, does your family deserve two percent?

SPEAKER_01

The types of conversation, the activities, the reactions, the all of it is going to be different based on what you have left in your tank. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

If you go home at two percent, you're snapping at everybody, you're resentful, you're moody, you're not your best. So I Really reframe it for people, and this is my own like personal values, too, right? Realistically, it's my own personal values in congruence with the code of ethics. But I say, like, my family deserves my best, first and foremost. Do my clients deserve my best? Absolutely. But it's not 100% because I want to go home and still be able to give my best to my family. So what I tell people is your clients, your patients, whatever that looks like, they deserve your best professionally, but they don't get 100% of you. They get your best professional piece.

SPEAKER_01

Right? And that ties in so well for women who have people pleasing tendencies that you need something for yourself as well. Because if you are investing in yourself, if you're taking time to say no, if you're putting something in your routine for you or multiple things, then you're going to show up well for the people around you. And how you present yourself to the world and the the interactions you have are gonna be completely different than going all over something.

SPEAKER_00

And I just I I have this image in my head of like my kids watching me go to work, sunny and bouncy and like me, right? Just me going like, let's go, like off we go. And then they see me come home drained with nothing to give. What does that show them? Right. Versus if I can come home, leave work at the door, love them, be engaged, we go plan outside, we go for walks. Like that's the mom they need and deserve. And my clients still got what they needed. It's not this all or nothing mentality that we've had. It's about finding balance in those spaces. Because at the end of the day, what I tell people is my family deserves my best. Those are the people who are gonna be there for me when things get tough. Those are the people who are gonna show up for me, those are the people who are gonna be in my funeral. My clients aren't gonna be there. So why would I give 100% to people who aren't gonna be there? And that doesn't, I I'm a great therapist. But part of being a great therapist is having balance.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And I think this applies to um women who are going above and beyond what they know that they should be taking on for things that in reality don't even matter to them. Yeah. Like the PTA or all these other like little things that we can get wrapped up in that if we could design our life exactly how I wanted it, it wouldn't be in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, kind of along with the people-pleasing tendency that we've been talking about is confidence because I feel like confidence ties in so well with people pleasing.

Confidence Without Needing Approval

SPEAKER_01

Um how do you maintain confidence when others might not understand you or might not approve of you?

SPEAKER_00

I guess I would ask, why do I need approval? Who are you trying to get approval from? Like the people that I need approval from are the people that I value in my life. Right? Like I genuinely don't care what the people at the gas station think of me. I don't care. Uh and and I will say, like, that's a skill set you have to work on, right? It it doesn't just come naturally. Um I would say I'm a very confident person. Um, but part of me has always recognized, like, if you need me, I will help you. But once you cross me, that bridge is closed forever. Right? Like, we were just talking about that last week, actually. Somebody was like, whoa, and I was like, hey, I will have your back. I will fight for you until I won't. Once you show me that you don't have my back, or that you're not, you know, you really don't value you don't get any of my energy. And that's how that's part of how I protect myself, right? Um it's not necessarily tied into confidence though. So I think not shrinking is a big one, right? Which a lot of societal things go into that. Not shrinking. I am I am five, one and three quarters, and yes, every quarter inch counts at this height, okay? I am five, one and three-quarters. I am loud, I have curly hair, and I am a big personality, right? Have I been any different since you met me 10 years ago? No, no, and I think I I didn't understand this for a long time, Keisha, is I was forever told I'm intimidating. And I didn't understand it. I'm like, I'm 5'1, what's to be intimidating? But what I've found is that strong women are intimidating. And I would like to see that be the norm. Because I think right now I'm more of an outlier because I'm not a people pleaser, because I know my worth, because I don't let people step on me and I don't make myself less for other people. Right. And it doesn't mean I talk over people, it just means I'm not willing to shrink for other people. I also highly value authenticity. It's something I've learned more recently, is like I value authenticity. So if you're not authentic, I don't have time for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I just don't, I just don't care. Like, I don't like fake. And so if you're fake, like I'm not gonna be mean to you, but you're not someone who I'm going to trust. You're not someone who I'm going to give that extra devotion to because I don't value it. I value authenticity. So the example, right, is like, um we as coworkers, we we have lives, right? We have shit that happens. I value when my coworkers go, I'm drowning, help. I got you. It's okay. Yeah, it happens, right? We just had it happen last week. Someone had some family health issues, and then of course it doesn't stop there, right? Like some other shoe has to drop because it's always it all builds. It always, right? It's never just one thing. And I was like, hey, my capacity was not, it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't high either. So normally when something like this happens, I'm like, let me make you some homemade meals. Well, guess what? I didn't have time for that. And that's okay. So we ran to Costco, we all pitched in some money, and we said, Here, now you don't have to worry about meals for a week.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

But if she would have said, No, I'm fine, I'd have been like, A, bullshit. And B, you don't have to pretend to be okay. Like, that's not authenticity, right? Like, life has highs and lows. Let people be there for you in your lows. And because I guarantee people pleasers have been there for everybody else, right? Do you accept help?

SPEAKER_01

Then they are working so hard to hold it all together that they'll just dig in their heels and try to figure out a way. And they don't want to inconvenience someone else to let them know. Yeah. Which is so it's just so interesting of a concept of how, like, I know that there are so many women out there who are struggling in people pleasing. Yeah. And almost feel like it's taboo for them to need help. Yeah. But in reality, we all love to help other people. Right. Right. And why would you rob somebody of the opportunity to let them help you? Yeah. And let them step in. And also it makes us it makes us so much more human to share our human experience because we all know that nobody's perfect. Nobody has it together. Yeah. So why do we keep pretending everybody is?

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. So the example for my personal end is last November we have a very complicated relationship with my in-laws. But all of a sudden, father-in-law was on hospice passing away. And so my husband was like, you know what? Regardless, I want to go back, I want to say goodbye, I want to do all that, right? Well, that threw me for a big loop, right? Ironically, I had opened the office here in Pillager days before. So I'll like, again, right? Because it's never anything at once. It's always, always multiple things. And I just threw out the helpline. I said, Hey, I'm drowning. I'm so overwhelmed. And a lot of it was just emotional, right? Like, but I was like, we were opening this. Well, it was physical then because we were moving and setting up, and every spare minute I had was doing that, right? And I just, I was like, I I don't know what to do. And kind of the normal response, like, let me, you know, uh, they said, Well, can we bring you food or whatever? And I said, honestly, what I need is help catching up at home because I'm so overwhelmed when I walk in. I don't know what to do, I don't know where to start. And so um they ended up pitching in, paid for a professional cleaner to come to my house, and it took so much weight off my shoulders. I cried. And it wasn't like I could have easily hid that, right? Nobody has to know my house is a disaster. But why would I sit here and drown when people are willing to help me? Now, the flip side of that, I remember there was another time. Um, I think it was when I had my oldest, I had postpartum depression. And I was at home and my sister-in-laws were asking, like, hey, how can we support you? Because postpartum depression is awful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a big thing. It's awful, it was so bad.

SPEAKER_00

But I remember um my my one sister-in-law specifically was like, Hey, reach out, I'll be praying for you. And I said, Hey, could you come over and just again help me get the house like picked up, sorted, clean? She's like, Oh, well, I didn't mean that. Okay, that's fine. You're allowed to say no. And that tells me that what you said did not match what you meant. Yes, right. Absolutely. So there's your example of like she lacked authenticity. And I don't want that to discourage people from reaching out though, right? Because her response, maybe she was overwhelmed too and had to say no. That's okay, right? But for the most part, when people offer, it's because they mean it. Right. Right. Like, and so if you aren't willing to reach out for help, that's definitely a place that I want you to start working on and being okay with. Um, like I've had nights where I'm just like, Mom, I'm so tired. Will you feed us? She's like, I would love to, right? And again, she's allowed to say no, then we're going to Burger King or whatever, right? Like, actually, I hate Burger King, but that's fine. Uh that's not the point. So people are allowed to say no. And it's not a reflection on you, right? They're allowed to say no. But generally speaking, like that's one example of when someone said no. Generally speaking, it's hey, no problem, right? Um, I remember my sisters showed up and they said, What do you need? And I said, Can we do laundry? Absolutely. One person held the baby, I went and showered, they put away all the laundry. There's so many baskets.

SPEAKER_01

And it does help with that mental load though, especially when you're going through a hard time, just to not see all the tasks that you have to do surrounding you and your the where like where you're living.

SPEAKER_00

And like when I had my oldest, one of the nurses gave me really good piece of advice. She said, Our culture does it wrong. She said, They expect you to have a baby and then show up and host people. She said, Don't do it. She said, When anybody comes over, you say, Bring food. I had so many people come visit me. Every time I said, Yep, no problem, just bring some food with. Nobody battened an eye. Nobody cared. Because they want to help. They want to help. People generally want to help. And I had one friend who was like, I don't cook, I'll be picking up pizza. And I said, It sounds great. I don't care. Like, people want to help. So we have to let them, we have to learn to say no. We need to be okay with being the one who's being helped. Because any relationship where you're only the giver, that's not really a relationship then.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And I and I think that's really important for a woman to hear that ask for help. Yeah. Just ask for help. And you don't have to hold up this picture of got it all together because nobody does. Yeah.

Your Worth Is Not Up For Vote

SPEAKER_01

And something that you said um a little while ago is you said that when someone says no to you or turns you down, it's not a reflection on you. And I feel like that's such a key thing to dive into quick on how how other people are treating you is not a reaction of reflection on you. And to take that even deeper, it doesn't reflect on your innate value. Yes. Oh my gosh, yeah. And I think that's another place that some women can get it twisted when they're talking about their confidence and their self-worth, is they're looking to other people for their value. How do you approach that when you're talking to a client about their innate value?

SPEAKER_00

I think sometimes it's hard to see that, right? When you keep setting yourself up, but you keep moving the goalpost, right? Of course you never feel valuable or worthy. How would you when the goal never stops moving? So practicing this like grounding in gratitude, I did this. Look at how much I've grown. Look at all the things I've accomplished, right? Like, I could look at myself right now and be like, well, I'm, you know, not making as much as one, or I'm not doing this, or I have I would hope to be here by now. Cool. But if you don't learn to celebrate your wins along the way, you'll never feel good. Because if the path just keeps getting longer and longer, you're running a race but never enjoying the scene. Right? So you have to practice being grounded, enjoying the day-to-day, enjoying the wins. So, because I let's see, so I have my bachelor's, I have my master's, like, you bet I celebrated that. As you should, right? Um, having a baby, buying a house, getting your own apartment, right? Like, you have to start celebrating your wins. You start saying no to people, celebrate it. Celebrate it. Look what I did, right? That's a huge accomplishment, right? Um we have to start celebrating our wins, or we'll never feel like we win.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and I think it does tie into people's confidence too, then, because then they feel like they're working so hard, but they're never achieving this goal that they have for their life, or they don't feel like they've ever arrived someplace.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, it doesn't matter if it's I'm going to the gym consistently, celebrate that, right? Um, I'm really focusing on like my health, celebrate your wins then. Like, don't forget to celebrate the wins. So if you say no and you set boundaries and you hold them, celebrate that. I am so stingy proud of myself. I'm gonna treat myself to coffee for that. That made me because the reality is when women start saying no, when you start setting boundaries, it's gonna be super uncomfy. Right? Like, I don't know if you noticed that when I was talking to y'all, like if you like notice yourself tense up or you know, like you're like, what? Right? It's like any other skill though. The more you do it, the better it gets, right? I don't love confrontation, but I'm good at it now, because I practiced it. Because like any other skill set, it took practice. When I started saying no, right, it took practice being comfy and confident in that. Like I remember the first time having to do that and like my voice is shaky, you know, like your whole body is shaking. But now I'm like, nope, not gonna do it. Like any other skill set, it just takes confidence and practice, and it is gonna be uncomfy. I need I need people to step into that discomfort because it'll only be uncomfy for a few minutes. You have to step into that discomfort to make your life easier long term.

SPEAKER_01

And I do I do think that the first like stepping out into those uh different situations is the hardest because oftentimes, if you are a people pleaser or if you are a low and confidence, you have trained the people around you to treat you a certain way. So now not only are you saying no or setting your boundary, but you're making the people around you uncomfortable because they have to interact with you differently. Because now you're not going to take on all the work that they were just offloading. And it makes it also makes them a little bit uncomfortable. So I feel like re-like doing those first steps is often the hardest, and then it gets easier.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Yeah, it'll be the scariest for sure. But again, this is where I need women to step into their bravery, not perfection, bravery. Be brave, be courageous.

Hard Conversations That Build Respect

SPEAKER_01

So, what are some mindset tips or practical steps that you have for women who are stepping out into their confidence and they know that they want to build up their confidence? Are there specific tips you have for them?

SPEAKER_00

Knowing and understanding why is really helpful. So we already kind of talked about like saying no and saying yes, right, to the things you enjoy. Um, and real quick, if you say yes to everybody else, it probably means you're saying no to yourself. So I have a lot of women who come in not being authentic and not knowing who they are anymore because they've lost their selves and their yeses. So if you're saying yes to everybody else, it means you said no to yourself. So saying no, so you can say yes to yourself and your family, right? Um, setting boundaries, having hard conversations. Did you know the ability to have hard conversations is one of the top 5% skill sets, meaning like the people who do the best in life, now by what like statistics, I'm not sure, but the people who can have conversations that are difficult or uncomfy have more success. And I absolutely believe that because the people who are avoidant stop themselves.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right. They never actually deal with the issue. That's that's going on for those hard conversations. I know that this is a place that you're very skilled at. What are some things that like you would tell women to do around hard having hard conversations? How would they approach that?

SPEAKER_00

So everybody's a little different, but there's a couple things that it's important to pay attention to. So for example, I'm a mulller. I will sit and stew and mull and boil. I don't like that. That's not fun for me. Right? It's not it's not fun for everybody, right? But I don't like that. I hate that spot. So I would rather have a hard conversation right away than sit and stew. Now, however, I also have ADHD, which means I'm impulsive. So I have to be careful not to be impulsive about the conversation, but I want to think about it long enough that I am thoughtful and mindful about like what do I want to say? What am I actually mad about here? And then I will go have a conversation. Versus there are some people who can't or aren't able to do that. They need that time to sit and stew and sit and think, right? I just don't like sitting in that space. So I would rather go have a hard conversation right there, same day, next day, whatever. There are some people who are internal processors, you probably need more time to have that same conversation. So that there's no right or wrong. I just, you have to be mindful of it, right? Like, what do you need to be able to go have that hard conversation? I don't want to sit in it, I don't like it. So I will like, okay, what am I mad about? What do I need? What do I want to say? Um, having accountability, right? So I just had this happen not long ago. I called someone and I said, Hey, I wanted to talk to you about this in person. Unfortunately, it didn't work. I am pissed about this. But I also understand that I don't know your side. I need, I need to know what's going on. What do I need to know? What am I missing? But regardless, this is how I'm feeling. So this is why I want to communicate because I don't want there to be animosity here. And she was like, Oh, okay. So here's what happened. Here's the side of it. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's really key. Um, what you just said is you're stating out how you're feeling and then saying that, hey, I don't, I don't know the whole full story. Let's and you you're positioning the conversation as let's work towards this together.

SPEAKER_00

Cause I could have gone into the conversation and been like, that was unacceptable. You can't do that. But I I absolutely could have done that, and my feelings were still valid, but it didn't give her a chance to give me her side of the story. Right. And it would have put her on defense.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so it worked great. We had a good conversation. I said, okay, perfect. That was the information I needed. And then I was like, oh, see, now I feel good. It again, it doesn't mean that conversation wasn't uncomfortable, but I also know that the other end of that is now I can feel good. Right? I was those feelings of being mad were still valid, but now that I understood the other side of it, that perspective was like, okay, we're good. We got we both got what we needed. There's no animosity, there's no wondering. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I think when you said that you know that on the other side of this conversation, you're gonna feel good. That's a key point for women to hear is that there's going to be benefit for from this conversation. And even if it doesn't go the way that you want it to, then you know. You know exactly where the person stands. So then you can decide with that information and make your next best choice.

SPEAKER_00

Right? So your feelings are valid, that doesn't mean what you do with them is valid. And so knowing that, like, there's gotta be accountability, that create just creates balance in my brain, right? Like, okay, I'm pissed off. The accountability here is I don't know her side of the story, so I gotta find out. And I'm glad I did because if I came in hot, yeah, I could have ruined that relationship over something that really wasn't a big deal, but I didn't know that because I didn't have her side of the story. So the other thing I want to mention is when you think of this like with uh a partner, right? So I'll use my spouse for example. Um, knowing how to approach people is really, really key. Okay. So my spouse is very defensive pretty naturally. And so as you work with people, you'll kind of figure this out, right? Like, and uh so I'll just say, hey babe, when you're in the right mindset, I need to talk to you about something. Because if we're like, hey, we need to talk about this, he's instantly on defense, right? And it's not a productive conversation. And so I just say, hey, like I put it out there, float it in the pool, and be like, hey, when you're ready, here we go. I need to talk to you about this. And so now I've learned, right, he when he's ready, then he'll come to me. And it could be five minutes later. It could be like, it doesn't really matter. It's out there, he's ready, it's the accountability for both of us, and we come back and we have a really good conversation. And sometimes, even just when I see he gets defensive in a conversation, I'll be like, hey, we'll pause. It's fine. Like, let's resume this if needed. Because a lot of people do get defensive, and it's a very natural response. It's not a great one, but it's so natural, right? And so just recognizing like people are gonna get defensive, you can expect it as you start to say no and set boundaries and have hard conversations. And it's okay. Again, like that's their issue to work on because sometimes when you're cut off guard, that happens. Very, like I said, very natural. Um, but just recognizing those things in people and being patient is also

Find The Why Behind The Critic

SPEAKER_00

helpful. Now, the other thing we were talking about was the why. Let's go back to that. We said understanding the why, meaning, why do I keep moving the goalpost? Why do I have to make everybody else feel good? Why do I not um know how to say no? Why can't I just give myself five minutes a day for myself? You know, like understanding your why can be so powerful, right? And so we find that a lot in therapy. You don't have to do it in therapy, but it's really, really helpful. Meaning, um, I only got praise when I did something good and productive. Oh, no wonder I can't stop and rest, right? Like, oh, I got yelled at for being lazy anytime I sat down. Well, of course you never stop moving, right? Knowing your why so you can challenge it internally is another big one. Knowing who's that voice in your head? Who's the critic? Who's the one cheering you on? Right? Where do they come from? Knowing your why can be incredibly helpful too. Um so, and again, there's lots of factors, right? Is it societal, is it cultural, is it whatever, but knowing your why is a big part of that inner critic.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And and then challenging that.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And taking the next steps. I found like through the journey that I've been on that um with just like with different circumstances in my life, that the wording that I've used in my mind has changed so much. Oh my gosh, yeah. From when I was younger, I used to be just a huge critic. And you know, it I'd pull all the things I'm doing wrong and just tally them. Right. Um, and now sometimes that still happens. I still like can like find things I'm doing wrong. But if I'm having a hard time, I will find myself mentally talking to myself, like, okay, Keisha, you're doing good. Like, good job, girl. Like, keep going. And like what a phenomenal shift, though, right? Yeah. And so it just brought it to mind when you're talking about like, okay, know your why. So these women can be like, okay, I feel like I'm not worthy of rest. I'm gonna challenge that. And when I'm sitting down, then just work on that mental talk. It may feel awkward and silly at some times, but like, girl, you can rest. You have permission to rest.

SPEAKER_00

Awareness is half your battle. Awareness is half the battle. People will say something, and I'm like, excuse me, who told you that? Uh and they literally go, uh. Who told you that? And it could be that it's from like a parent, a grandparent, all this, or it could be just you put this expectation on yourself and now you're the inner critic, right? But regardless, who's telling you that? Um, is something gonna explode if you don't rest?

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, is like I get there's some logistical things, right? Yeah, if we don't do the laundry, the laundry doesn't get done. Like, okay, fine, but is it gonna like explode because the dry it's still in the washroom? No. Right. Like challenging that thinking is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

And also what I hear you say when you're saying those phrases is you're removing the unwritten meaning of it. Having laundry sitting in the laundry room, that's just a thing. Yeah, there's laundry sitting in the laundry room. So what? It does not mean you're not good at at keeping up at your household. It does not mean that you're a bad woman.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or a bad mom because you have laundry. It's just there's laundry over there. There's laundry. There's no meaning attached to it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So um, example would be I so time management is probably my hardest ADHD struggle, right? And so, for example, we were running to basketball one morning, I messed up the time. I got like our normal leave time in my head, and we were supposed to be 20 minutes sooner. I got my kids there late. Oh my God. That inner critic was like, Why can't you just figure this out? It's not that hard. And I was like, wow, that was gross. Like it was so intense and so heavy on my shoulders. And so I went to my therapist and we talked about it, and she's like, Big whoop, you've been late once all season. What's the big deal? And I was like, Well, that's not what my head said, right? And so I was like, I'm not human, I'm not allowed to make mistakes. What? Right, like I what?

SPEAKER_01

Well, and sometimes it's so good just to take that time and to pause and to think about what's going on in your head. Because realistically, a lot of it's sometimes not logical.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. But it's very emotional, yes, right? Yeah, and and the reality there is I was allowed to be frustrated with myself, but sometimes I have to just look at it and say, is there anything I can do? No, it's done. I can't make up 20 minutes of drive time. I just can't. I wish flu powder was a thing. Just whoosh, magic there, that'd be great. That's not how it works, right? So I can't do anything about it except for do my best for next time. And even that, like instead of sitting and beating myself up about it, I said, Okay, what can I do differently next time?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and then you're not carrying that extra emotional weight around. Yeah, and I'm gonna do my best. Sometimes I'm gonna mess up. And as much as I don't like it, it's reality. So that's okay. So yeah, understanding the why behind it, um, really, really powerful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Leading With Authenticity And Calm

SPEAKER_01

So another part of your journey that that you've been on is you stepped into leadership. And how does that how do you lead with authenticity in your role? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I am glad that I have been in like my authentic self before stepping into leadership. I think it would be really challenging to be trying to find it as you're leading because the reality is it's now you have power differentials, now you're responsible for communication, extra responsibility, extra all these things, right? Just being able to be myself and then step into leadership has been so fun. I love it. Not that it doesn't have its moments of challenge, right? But like I get to be real and vulnerable and honest. And I think part of being a good leader is showing them I'm not perfect, right? Again, did your brain go to that? Like, well, you have to be this perfect leader.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, I from what I've seen is the strongest leaders show their humanity. They're not perfect, but then it gives the people who are working their way up permission that, oh, hey, I can be who I am and I can still work towards other goals that I have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, when I asked for help, like I said, back in November when everything went down, I was in leadership. I didn't pretend everything was fine and then drown. No. Why would I do that? That's that's not a good example, right? I want them to tell me when they're struggling. That's literally the whole point. Because I'm gonna be there to scoop them up when they need me, and vice versa. Like, even in leadership, I'm still human. And so recognizing my strengths, recognizing my weaknesses, letting other people fill in those gaps, it's not about um pride. It's leaning into my strengths. I'm really good with people. Um the other, there's three directors here, and um, we kind of joke, like, I'm the people one, right? Adriana's the tasky, um, just super, super good detail um in like charting and auditing. Um, and so it's funny, like, that's not my strong suit, but it's hers. And so let her run with that, right? Uh, where I'm gonna do the people interactions, um, because that's my strong suit. And and I I'd never really pretend to be perfect. I'm authentic and I'm like, hey, I'm here. Um, I have a coffee stain on me because my three-year-old decided to jump on me as we got in the car, but you know what? It is okay, right? Like, did I stop and get a new shirt? No, no, absolutely not. Like, it's life. We're supposed to do it together, right? I don't remember who I learned that from, but somewhere along the way, someone was like, we do life together. And that has carried over in my coaching. I'm like, we're gonna do life together, right? When life gets hard, we're gonna pick each other up. It's the same thing there. And so being authentic is fun because I still get to be silly and goofy. And when it's time to have hard conversations, I'm like, listen, this is how it's gonna be, or this is how it has to be, and this is why, right? I'm I'm not, I'm just not a blind leader. I'm not like you have to do this because I say so. No, we have to do this, and this is why. And so this is how we're gonna adjust. Um, ironically, one of my other therapists was like, Lana, I'd follow you into battle. And I laughed. And I'm like, but I bring the hammer down sometimes, but they know, like, they they get access to me, right? Good and bad support. I'm there regardless. So when the hammer comes down, I already have their respect. And it's not because I'm the I'm the leader, it's because I've been authentic with them, good and bad. I really do. I like because I'm thinking, um, I mean, I've definitely had to be creative. You still have to have card hard conversations, but yeah, I'm able to be myself. I don't know. It just works. It is, it definitely has challenging moments. Um I think someone said something the other day that kind of didn't sit right. They were like, ugh, a whole women workplace. And I was like, excuse me? They're like, well, that could be catty. I'm like, it could be, but we're a bunch of amazing strong women who have hard conversations, and so we don't have that. We have an amazing, powerful group of women who don't back down, who don't slight each other, who are encouraging and pushing forward. So, like an example would be one of the other directors. She said, Hey Lana, I want to talk to you about something. I said, Okay, what's up? And she goes, You did these two things, and I don't think your intention was bad, but this is what happened. And I was like, Oh my gosh. I said, uh zero intention. I see how I see exactly what you mean. Um, I see exactly what I did. And I said, But just so you know, yeah, that was me misunderstanding. So yes, no bad intent. I absolutely get what you're what you're trying to say. I just didn't understand the preface of the conversation. So then I was sitting there, I'm like, what? Like I literally, I remember being so perplexed and by this conversation. She was trying to use our example of clients for the rest of the group, like to showcase like this is what this boundary has to look like because we have this shared client, whatever. And I was like, but we already talked about it. So in my brain, I was like, why are you saying this? We already had this whole conversation, right? And she was like, Lana, I was trying to give an example, but I'm so sorry. I was like, Oh, yes, I see what you're doing now. I didn't understand that in the moment. So I was very perplexed. I am sorry. I also understand what you would okay, like it, but had she again not been able to say that, she would have sat and been annoyed or frustrated or whatever, but instead she brought up the hard conversation. We resolved it in like 20 seconds, it was no big deal, right? And I said, no, zero intention. I'm so sorry. Um, and we literally both like, okay, we're good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But I think that's so important for the listeners to know that these hard conversations are gonna bring you to positive places. Oh my gosh, yes. And they're gonna take so much weight off, and you don't have to waste time being angry, or you don't have to waste time thinking about what was their intention, or maybe there's like all the spider webs that we can sometimes weave. Yeah, you can have a conversation and let it go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think you don't deserve to feel that way all the time, right? Like, again, you're gonna be mad, you're gonna be sad, you're gonna be frustrated. Like, those are all just normal emotions. But do you deserve to sit in frustration for hours and days and weeks? Heck no. Do you deserve to feel good? Absolutely. Do you deserve if you need to think on it again, by all means do. But uh stop making yourself suffer for other people. Go have the hard conversations. The people that want you in their life are going to step into those hard conversations with you. If they're not, they don't deserve you.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yep. If they're not able to have those conversations, or if those conversations, having conversations leads to like a very bad result, they explode, then that is a signal for your next step. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

That's data. I use that one a lot too. It's data. That's data. Store that, that's data.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. It's data, and you also don't have to have big emotions around it. Just this is a fact. This is what this is what happened. Yep. Yeah. I did my best. So, what practices help you stay anchored in your worth as a leader?

Self-Care That Fuels Confidence

SPEAKER_00

Um, so some things that I do consistently very well. Um, I go to the gym. Okay, now we know that uh the gym works for all types of ADHD. It's like one of the best things you can do for your ADHD. I do that consistently. Even when it's an absolute pain in my butt and it doesn't, you know, it's not convenient. I go. Once in a while, I sit outside the gym and I have to like talk myself into going. Get your butt in there. Because the reality is, even if I go in and do a crappy job, I still got there and I still did it. Right? That's a great hack. Do something consistently, even if you're not doing 100%, right? Go in there and do it. But most of the time, once I'm in there, then I'm good. All right. Gym consistently, that's a huge help for me. It builds confidence. I feel strong. I make connections with people. Um, and you don't have to, right? That can be your solo time. Put on your headphones. You don't got to talk to nobody. I'm just a social butterflies. Um, but I get to the gym consistently. It's for myself. It's for me. Um, one of my coworkers joked like, Lana, how do you see couples? And I was like, I go to the gym. Because couples are intense, man. You're not just dealing with one person, you're dealing with two people, two dynamics, two, you know, all that fun stuff. And it's really intense. But I take care of myself by going to the gym and showing up for myself consistently. It makes me a better therapist, makes me a better parent, makes me a better partner, gives me dopamine. It's all good stuff, right? All good. Um, the other thing I do very consistently is meals. Now, when I say meals, I mean we eat well. Because I'm actually one of my next trainings is mental health and nutrition because there's such a big tie to nutrition and medication and all these things. So that's my next training. So to be continued. But we consistently eat well. We do go out once in a while, but I would say pretty rarely. Uh not rarely, infrequently. And when we do, it's not fast food, right? And so my kids were like, We never go to McDonald's. And I was like, oh no. Um, because it matters. And so me and my husband will sit down and we'll do the meal planning and the you know, like we'll plan out groceries. I don't do grocery shopping generally speaking, but regardless, we're really intentional about what we're putting into our bodies, what we're eating, and we're taking good care of our mind and our body. And I would say those are probably my biggest ones because when we're doing that, it means I have leftovers, which means I'm also eating while at work, right? It means when I'm going home, we're having good food. Um, and it doesn't have to be these crazy pinch. No, just get good food in your system consistently. I see a lot of women who are running to all the events and all the things and all that. And I get it, it's really hard to be intentional, plan ahead sometimes, and it's okay. But when you're constantly going all of a sudden it's 8 p.m. and you haven't eaten, of course you're stressed.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And that's gonna throw off your hormones and your like mental health and how you're treating your body are are very strongly related.

SPEAKER_00

So, so, so, so, so linked, so important. Show up, give your body what it needs to fuel, right? Like when your gas tank light comes, no, that's not the right word. When your gas light comes on, right, on your dash, what do you do?

SPEAKER_01

You stop and you fill up with gas. Yeah. What happens if you don't? Then you're out of gas. You're stuck on the side of the road.

SPEAKER_00

You're you're out, right? Why do we ignore when our gas light comes on? Oh, it's because you're a people pleaser and you don't stop to actually fill up your tank. You need to fill up your tank, right? Like you can't drive on nothing. I have this conversation so many times. I used to work in a dementia unit and then I ran an Alzheimer's caregiver support group. So I supported the caregivers, not the dementia patients, the caregivers. And I would use this analogy all the time. And I would say, okay, you're taking a flight. What happens? They go over, you know, like the the ladies up there, and here's the seatbelt, and here's the thing. I said, What do they tell you when the air mask, if the cabin loses pressure and the mask drop down, what are you supposed to do?

SPEAKER_01

You're supposed to put it on yourself and then put it on your neighbor. Yep. Why? So that you can have oxygen.

SPEAKER_00

It's kind of important, right? Yeah, absolutely. If you don't put the mask on you first, you will pass out. Right? Yep. Hypoxia. You will literally pass out and die. And I know that sounds like an extreme example, but if you are flying, let's say you have, you know, you're ch a child on each side of and you're flying. Are you any good to your kids if you have passed out from hypoxia? No. Put the mask on yourself first so you can. Can help your children. So you can help your partner. So you can help your parents. You have to come first. In a world that says you have to be perfect and you have to serve and you have to do all this. No, you can't do that if you're running on E, right? Put the mask on yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think then. I think that's a challenging thing for a woman. Very. Because um it's almost opposite to what society says. Oh, absolutely. Society is like serve, ser, serve, ser, serve, and then maybe you can sit down at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00

Right?

SPEAKER_01

And then what you're saying is, no, take care of yourself, and then you can help. Correct. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

So, okay, again, if we go back to the gas analogy, if you just ignore that gaslight, you don't know when it's gonna happen, but eventually you're gonna coast and run out of gas, right? Right. I would much rather be in a position where I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna get gas, I'm gonna refuel, and then I can proceed on with my day. And I don't have to worry about bursting into flames, getting stuck on the side of the road, right? Like, isn't that a much more ideal scenario, too, versus hoping you can get there?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think the bursting into flames is a really good analogy because that can signal like when you are burnt out and you've ran all day and you've served, and then you've over-served, and then someone asks something of you, you have nothing left, and your emotions may be high. And that's almost of a bursting of emotions. Like you cannot take anything more, um, which is very key for all of you people pleasing people who are listening, take a break.

SPEAKER_00

Or for the if you find that all of a sudden you feel explosive, that's probably why. Right? Like, I would guess most of the parents, yeah. I mean, some of us are more um like maybe better at coping, better at this, but when you're explosive as a parent, it's usually because you haven't taken the time to take that deep breath, to take time for yourself, to take time to eat, right? Like, I joke that I'm a very hangry person, and I am. I will absolutely bite your head off if I'm hungry. It's bad. So I will literally like I'll eat between sessions and I joke one time, I'm like, this is for your safety as I'm eating, right? Like, or I'll be driving. Um, if we're like running around and we have a busy day with the family, whatever, I'll put my hand on my husband, I'll be like, honey, I need to eat. And he's like, Oh my god, we have 10 minutes. And then we're like, we have to go find food. But I've recognized that in myself. I didn't know what it was for a long time. Oh God, I was so mean. But I've recognized, like, my body can't run on nothing. Yes. Right? I have to give it fuel. And I'll think I think a lot of women like have their coffee and then don't eat until lunch. Um, now I'm not a hormone expert, but what I've learned about it is it messes with your hormones. You need to eat, you need to give your body fuel more than just milk and sugar in the morning. Okay. Like you need some fuel. Um, and it doesn't have to be grandiose, right? Like just get something in your body, eat consistently. Okay. And that sounds so freaking basic. Eat.

SPEAKER_01

But I've it applies to so many women's lives. And not only is it just eat, but I think the underlying message of this whole conversation together is take care of yourself. Oh my gosh, yes, please. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Take care of yourself. Yeah. Because where I see women coming in to see me burnt out, overwhelmed, I I have nothing left. That's pretty consistent. Right.

SPEAKER_01

And it's because they've just overgiving and not taking care of themselves.

Final Encouragement And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Do you have any last comments for our listeners who um who are learning to show up boldly for in their own lives?

SPEAKER_00

If you have found yourself in a place where you don't know who you are anymore, I think that's a pretty key ticket to say, like, I think I've lost myself in my roles. It's okay, it's pretty normal. I feel like that's a pretty natural transition into motherhood, is when that like your whole world shifts, right? But if you have lost yourself, go find it. Go figure out what you like. And again, don't look for perfection, right? I tell people this all the time. When we start paying attention to people pleasing, when we start paying attention to eating and eating consistently and taking care of yourself, I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking for practice. Okay. Go figure out what works for you, right? So for the example of the gym, I like lifting heavy weights. Okay. Some people like hit, some people like Pilates. I don't care what you do. Go do it and figure out what you can do consistently. Okay, because consistency is a big key there, right? It doesn't matter if you go two days a week, three days a week, I don't care. Go figure out what you enjoy. Do you see that? Don't do it for somebody else. Do it for you. Eat. Right? Go to Costco and pick up their pre-meck pre-made meals. I don't care. Go. I follow this uh TikToker and she's like, she calls herself like the lazy Costco meal hack. Who cares? Get it done. It doesn't matter, right? Pay someone to meal prep for you. I don't care. Just start showing up for yourself. And really, I really, I guess my biggest thing too is like stop giving 100% to everybody else. You deserve to take care of yourself. Right? You deserve to show up for yourself. You deserve to be happy. And I I guarantee if you start doing that, you're gonna see a shift. Your kids are gonna be happier because you're gonna be more fun to be around, right? Your husband's gonna want more time with you in a good way, right? Like you're going to find more balance. Start taking care of yourself because the people around you need you to do that. And again, I want you to do it for you, but they will directly feel the impact of that.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Where can our listeners reach out to you?

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna share my dot profile with you. I have my website, my phone number, my email, just kind of link to everything. So that's the best way to kind of get in touch with me.

SPEAKER_01

And I will link that in the show notes below. So go ahead and check that out, and we'll be back for more conversations. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it was great. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for joining me on today's episode of Quiet Courage. Remember, courage is the first step to confidence. And together, we practice showing up, taking brave steps, and building that confidence every day. If this episode encouraged you, I'd be so thankful if you'd share with a friend. Keep taking those small steps, and I'll see you on the next episode.