Episode 10: Negotiate Like You Mean It: Knowing Your Worth and Demanding It

Episode 10: Negotiate Like You Mean It: Knowing Your Worth and Demanding It

Too many women have been taught to be grateful for what they get, stay quiet, and avoid rocking the boat. But in this episode, we’re breaking that pattern for good. Negotiate Like You Mean It is a bold conversation about knowing your worth, owning your value, and refusing to shrink when it’s time to ask for more.

Whether it’s your salary, your position, your boundaries, or the respect you deserve, negotiation is not about being difficult — it’s about being clear, confident, and unapologetic about what you bring to the table. This episode is for the woman who has been underestimating herself, overexplaining, settling for less, or waiting for someone else to finally recognize her value.

We’re talking about what it takes to stop doubting yourself, start advocating for yourself, and walk into every room knowing you belong there. Because asking for more is not selfish. Speaking up is not too much. And demanding what reflects your worth is not arrogance — it’s alignment.

If you are tired of playing small, tired of second-guessing your voice, and ready to step into a new level of confidence, this episode is your reminder: stop settling, speak up, set boundaries and ask for what you deserve - you do not have to wait for permission.

It’s time to self-advocate and negotiate like you mean it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I'm Melissa, coach, counselor, and professional truthbringer.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

And I'm Anne, trial lawyer, accountability partner, and certified Pilates instructor. And yes, that is really true.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

We are two East Coast women who met at kindergarten drop-off.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

And here we are 15 years later, deciding that midlife needed a megaphone and not a mid-button. So we're here to interrupt the negative narratives. And share the unfiltered truth about reinvention, perimenopause, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Just real talk. Let's go. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So welcome to this episode, which is episode 10 of Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered. Negotiate Like You Mean It, the podcast for midlife women who are done leaving money on the table. Today we're talking about something that could literally change your financial life, negotiation. Now, I know you're probably thinking, I'm not a negotiator, I'm not aggressive, I don't want to burn bridges. Or maybe you're thinking, it's too late. I'm already established in my career and I've already made my choices. Well, let us tell you something. You absolutely are a negotiator. You've been negotiating your entire life. You've negotiated with kids, with partners, with family members. The difference is you've probably never negotiated for yourself in the way that actually matters financially. And that stops today, and it is not too late.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Exactly. And here's the brutal truth, and negotiation is one of the biggest wealth builders available to you and to me and to all women. And most women are leaving it completely on the table. Studies actually show that women negotiate less frequently than men, and they ask for less when they do negotiate, and they're more likely to feel guilty about even asking. And the result, over a lifetime, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost income, lost benefits, and really lost opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

And here's what makes me angry about this. It's not because women don't deserve more, and it's not because we're not worth it. It's because we've been taught that asking for what we deserve is selfish, rude, or unfeminine. And we've actually believed it. But in midlife, we don't have time to believe lies anymore. We have maybe 15, 20, or 25 more years in our working lives. Every dollar we negotiate now compounds into retirement. Every benefit we secure now shapes our future. Every time we ask for what we're worth, we're not just changing our own financial trajectory. We're modeling something different for women and young people around us.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So today we're going to talk about how to negotiate like you mean it. And I promise you, by the end of this episode, you'll really understand that negotiation isn't aggressive or unfeminine. It's not burning bridges. It's not selfish. It's really just taking care of yourself and your future with the same intentionality you've probably been using to take care of everyone else. So let's move on, Anne, to why midlife women don't negotiate.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

And before we talk about how we do it, we're going to talk about, to your point, Mel, why we don't negotiate. Because understanding the blocks is the first step to moving through them. So let's talk about block one, Mel.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Okay, block one, the belief that we should be grateful. So many of us grew up with this message. Be grateful for what you have. Don't ask for more. Don't be ungrateful. And on the surface, yes, gratitude is beautiful, but it's been weaponized. And it's been used to keep women in positions where they're underpaid, undervalued, and working longer hours than they should be. And here's what I want you to understand: gratitude and advocating for yourself are not mutually exclusive. You can be grateful that you have a job and you can still ask for a raise that reflects your value. You can appreciate an opportunity and still negotiate for better terms. You can be thankful for what you have and still demand what you deserve. So that is block number one and block number two.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

And that's the fear of being labeled. And this one is huge for women. We worry that if we negotiate, we'll be seen as aggressive, difficult, or demanding. And we're worried that we'll be labeled in ways that men never are. And here's the thing: that fear is definitely not unfounded. There's actually research showing that women who negotiate are sometimes penalized socially in ways that men are not. But here's what I also know: the cost of staying silent is higher. The cost of undervaluing yourself is higher. And you have more power than you think. You can negotiate in a way that's direct and firm without being aggressive. You can ask for what you deserve without being difficult, and you can advocate for yourself while still being likable and professional.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

So block three, and this is a real one, the imposter syndrome at midlife. And it's interesting because you'd think that by this point in our life we'd gotten over our impostor syndrome. And I say, we haven't. So we've been working 20, 30 years and we've had accomplishments, we have expertise, but somehow many women in midlife are still plagued by the feeling that we really don't deserve the position we're in or the money we're making. And this often shows up as someone else could probably do this better, or I just got lucky, or I'm not really as experienced as I think I am. And when you're operating from those beliefs, you just can't negotiate from a place of strength.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

That is so true. Now let's talk about block four, guilt. And for some of us, especially if we've taken time out of the workforce for caregiving, there's a deep guilt. We feel like we owe something to our employers for, quote, allowing close quote us to work part-time or for rehiring us after a gap, or for being flexible and allowing a flexible work schedule. And that guilt becomes a reason that we ask for less. But here's the reality you're providing value, you're working, you're delivering results. The fact that you may have had a nonlinear career path doesn't make you less valuable. In fact, many of the skills you developed during caregiving, such as project management, problem solving, emotional intelligence, resilience, they are incredibly valuable in the workforce.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Absolutely. And I would say that even skills, if you weren't in the workforce and you were managing a household, are transferable skills in a paid workforce. And so it's so important, and this is block five, to really know your worth. And the block is that you don't know your worth. And you might generally not, because you might not know what people in similar positions or with similar experiences are making. You might not know what the market rate is for your role or the benefits other companies are offering. And really, unless you know that and do your research, you can't negotiate because you're not negotiating from a place of strength if you don't have the information.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

And that's so true. And really, there are so many ways in today's day and age to Google that information or find it on Glassdoor or various places.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

AI now, right? Think about it. There's so many different ways to get that research.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

So since we've talked about why midlife women don't negotiate, let's talk about why this matters at midlife and why it's so important that people do negotiate. So why is it so particularly urgent at this point in your life? Well, let's first start with the math. Let's say you're 45 years old and you're planning on working until 67. That's 22 more years of earning potential. If you negotiate a $5,000 annual raise right now, that's $110,000 more in direct income over those 22 years. But it's not just that. That $5,000 raise compounds, it affects your future raises. They'll be calculated on a higher base salary. And it affects your retirement contributions if you're putting away a percentage of your salary. It then in turn affects your social security benefits if you're living in the US, because those are calculated on your highest earning years. So a $5,000 negotiation could literally be worth $200,000, $300,000 or more over your lifetime. And that's one negotiation. So imagine what happens if you negotiate multiple times or negotiate for bigger amounts. That's huge.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Huge. And then there's the time factor. Unlike a 25-year-old, you might not have 40 years to make up for that gap in income, maybe only 15 to 20, like you said. So that means every year, every negotiation counts even more. And you can't really afford to just leave money on the table. And then third, there's this retirement factor. And I personally believe retirement is a bad word because we're always going to do something different or new. But many women are underfunded when they do want to do that because they didn't earn as much during their prime earning years. And negotiating now impacts that security for later. It impacts whether you can, I'll say in quotes, retire or go do something else when you want. Or if you have to keep working and your quality of life later in years. And fourth, there's this confidence factor. And I've noticed this that many women who negotiate in midlife often report not just financial gains, but emotional gains. They feel more confident and secure in themselves. And they feel they're standing up for themselves and they feel powerful. And that confidence often spills over into other th areas of their lives. And it's really actually awesome.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

And they should feel more confident because they are empowered and they are standing up for themselves. So let's talk about the mindset shift on this whole topic of negotiations now.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Sure. But before we get tactical, and can we just make sure that when we do this mind shift shift, we really believe in ourselves because if you don't believe in yourselves, you won't mean it.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

That's so true.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

So negotiation.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Nobody else will believe you if you don't believe it yourself.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Exactly. So let's go to mindset one.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

So that's negotiation is a conversation and not a confrontation. And this really is true. And I see this in practicing law every day. When it's a conversation, it's much more likely to have a better outcome than when anybody comes at it from a place of just thinking it's all about the battle and confronting something. So a lot of us think that negotiation is this adversarial thing, like we're in a boxing ring and somebody's going to have to lose. But that's really not at all what negotiation is. Negotiation is a conversation between two people who both want something. Your employer wants to keep you, or if you're applying for a position, they want to acquire you and have you be part of their company. And you want to be compensated fairly. So you're both trying to figure out what works. When you approach it as a conversation and not a confrontation, everything shifts. You're calmer, you're more thoughtful, you're more likely to find solutions that work for both parties, and you're much more likely to actually ask for what you deserve if you come from a place of conversation instead of confrontation.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

And if you go to this second mindset shift, if negotiation is a conversation, you always also have to realize in that conversation that your worth isn't determined by your comfort level of that conversation and making the ask. And this is really important because you might feel uncomfortable asking for 10,000 or more. So you maybe you chicken out or you ask for 3,000. But the market doesn't care about your comfort level. The market cares about what your role is worth. It's market-relevant compensation. So your experience is worth something, your role is worth something, and your skills are worth something. So you have to separate that emotional comfort of making the ass from the actual negotiation.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

That's so true. Because a lot of people then undersell themselves big time.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

So the third mindset shift is realizing that negotiation is actually how healthy relationships work. So think about any relationship that matters to you. You negotiate with your partner, maybe about household duties, about money, about time. You negotiate with your kids about their curfew or their screen time. You negotiate with your friends about how often you see each other. And negotiation is clearly not a sign of a bad relationship. It's a sign of a healthy one where both people's needs matter. So your relationship with your employer should be the same. You matter and your needs matter. And a good employer will recognize that.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

So mindset four, I think to keep in mind that asking is not demanding. And Ann said this earlier. It's opening the conversation. So again, when you ask for something, you're not making a demand. You're inviting the person to have a conversation. You're saying, hey, here's what I'm thinking I'm worth, or here's what I'm thinking I need to be whole in terms of pay. What do you think? And then you listen. You might learn something that changes your approach, or you might not. You might find out there are other options on the table. You might learn about constraints that you didn't know existed in that company, but it's still not demanding. You're opening that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

And whatever comes out of that conversation is important information that you've gleaned. Absolutely. So let's talk about the fifth mindset shift. Remember that your gender is not a liability, which this goes against every grain in all of our thinking on a typical Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

It shouldn't even be a factor.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Agree. So here's what we want you to know. There's research showing that when women negotiate with confidence and clarity, they're not penalized. When they apologize excessively or seem uncertain or frame their ask as a favor, then they're penalized. When women ask directly with data to back up their request, they're seen as professional and competent. So your gender is not a liability, but how you show up in the negotiation could be.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Absolutely. So that's why it's so important of knowing your worth. And so let's talk about how do we know our worth? We touched on it a little bit, but this is the practical stuff. And this first practical step in any negotiation is doing your homework and knowing what you're worth by researching the market. You need to know what people in your role are making in your particular market. So if you're in New York versus Kansas City, it might be a different market in terms of pay. You need to know what people with your experience in your industry are making. It's not negotiable information. This is non-negotiable information. It's facts. And you can't negotiate without the facts.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

And then what do you do, Ann? So then after you know what your value is in the general market with your skill set, calculate your actual value. So this is where you're going to get specific about what you bring to your role. You're not just calculating generic market value, you're calculating your specific value, but using that market research as a guideline. So think about what results have you delivered.

unknown 15:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

How much money have you made or saved the company? How many people have you managed? What problems have you solved? And what skills do you have that are particularly valuable? You think about all this when you calculate your value. You want to be able to articulate specifically what you bring to the table so that you can advocate for your true value.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

And then the third step, which is as you calculate your actual value, then you want to account for your unique circumstances. What if you had a nonlinear career path? You might have taken time out for caregiving. Maybe you switched industries. Maybe you reduced your working hours. Maybe you took lots of promotions and worked outside of the country and came back. All of this should factor into your negotiation, but not in the way that you think. And here's what I mean: don't use these things as reasons to ask for less. Instead, take them in and use them as context for what you're asking for. And let me give you an example. So, say you're in a negotiation and you say, I've been in this role for three years, and I've delivered these specific XYZ results. And I feel my experience in these different industries has really given me a unique perspective that's been valuable on this role that other people don't have. So I'm really looking for a salary that reflects this contribution. With that, you would be providing context about your experience, what you are not doing. You are not apologizing.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yeah, not apologizing for having to take time out to be a caregiver or have to have flex hours. So let's talk about number four determine your number. So, based on the research and your assessment of your value, you need to know before you go into the negotiation what you're going to ask for. And here's where a lot of people get stuck. They research the market, they see a range, and they aim for the middle or slightly below the middle. But here's what we want you to consider. You've likely been on the lower end for a while. You might be at the bottom of the range for your experience level. You're not going to go ahead and aim for the middle or slightly below the middle when you negotiate. You're going to aim for the middle to the upper middle range of where someone with your experience and your unique qualification should be. Aim for a number that feels challenging but achievable. And just as a side note, I can't tell you how many times, like when I represent somebody in a gender discrimination claim, and one of the issues is pay disparity. You see somebody often who has less experience, less qualifications, and is male being paid more than the females. So that's why aim for know how to advocate for your successes and know you're not going to be asking for the lower to middle. You're going to be going middle to upper range in your ask. So let's talk about Mel, how we prepare for the conversation of negotiating.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Absolutely. Now you know what you're worth. So you need to really go in and prepare for it. So just like Anne does with her clients, you build the case. You're going to write down the three to five things that make you valuable and worth the raise you're asking for. It goes back to thinking about your specific context. These need to be specific, they need to be quantifiable if possible, and they need to be recent if possible. So instead of, oh, I'm a hard worker and I've been here for a while and I think I deserve more. No. In the past 18 months, I've led this X project, which came in three weeks early under budget of 15%. And I led a team of 15 people and they were happily engaged. This example is very specific and demonstrates the value that you brought.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Which is so much more powerful than just a vague and general example of why you think you deserve more compensation.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

So I feel like we're talking legal stuff. Build your case, number one, and then you anticipate objections. So you have to think about what might your employer say if you ask for a raise? Maybe they'll say we don't have the budget. So you gotta be thinking like 10 steps ahead. So if they say we don't have the budget, a valid and confident response would be, I understand we're operating within constraints. What's the timeline for when the budget might be available? Or are there other forms of compensation we could discuss? If the objection or response is you haven't been here long enough, you need to be prepared to confidently say, I understand that you want to make sure people are in stable roles, and I've been here for X amount of time and I've already made significant contributions, and I'm looking forward to continuing to contribute for years to come. When you anticipate the objections, you're not thrown off in the moment, and you can stay calm and respond thoughtfully and confidently.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

And the third thing you want to do before you go into that is really think about and decide on the range, your range. So you know what you're asking for, but what would you accept? I like to call this with my clients like what's above the red line and below the red line. What it what are your non-negotiables above the red line and what are your negotiables below the red line? So when it comes to salary, you have to know what's above the, what's your minimum. You need to know what your minimum is. So let's say you're asking for a $10,000 raise. Would you accept $7,000 or $8,000? You really want to think about this going in because in the moment you might have nerves or emotions, and it's easy to accept less than you should. And let me just also say that the recommendation from Coach Melissa is that you never accept on the spot. You always take back the data, think about it, and make Maybe renegotiate or come back, but give yourself time and don't put yourself in that like pressure that you have to answer in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

That's a really good point. After you've prepared for the conversation, by building your case, anticipating any objections your employer might have and decided on the range that you would accept as compared to what you're asking for. Choose your timing. That's the fourth key in preparing for this conversation. Because when you have the conversation matters, you want to have it when your employer is in a good mood to not stressed out about some immediate crisis. It would be ideal timing if you had recently completed a major project or achievement. Definitely don't do it when you're in a moment of conflict with your supervisor or anyone with you. Now, if your company does performance reviews annually, that might be a natural time, but you don't have to wait for that time. You can request a separate meeting specifically about compensation. And never have the conversation when you're angry or emotional. Make sure you have it when you're calm, prepared, and clear-headed.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

And prepared is key, right? So the preparation number five is practice, practice, practice, practice out loud. It might sound silly, but it's so important. You've look in front of the mirror and practice. Build that confidence, or even write down bullets and go into the meeting with your bullets so you can keep to that and the emotions don't come over. When you practice, you actually say the words out loud so you don't say them for the first time when you ask in front of your boss. And I know it sounds awkward, like I said, but here's why this matters. When you practice, you build your confidence with the words and you hear how you sound and you can adjust your tone and you can practice staying calm and using your breath. So practice with a mirror, trusted friend or your partner. Do it a few times. Get comfortable with it. There's no shame, and it's actually fun and funny to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

So now that we've talked about how we're going to prepare for that conversation and negotiate, let's talk about when the answer is no. So what happens if you negotiate and the employer's answer is no to your request for an increase in compensation. Now, first, it's important to point out that absolutely does not mean you failed. It doesn't mean you asked wrong. And it just means the answer right now is no.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And second, I would say that no is never permanent. Not right now, and no forever are really different things. And most companies have budget cycles, right? Or annual budgets. And many of the larger ones, they do annual reviews, not just annual, they do mid-year reviews, quarterly reviews. They should do informal check-ins. So things change. Your performance changes and the market changes very quickly, as we know. So know that situation, it's no is not permanent. And so if you get that answer, your response should be or could be, I understand what would need to happen for us to revisit this. Is it about budget? Is it about performance? Or is it about timing? Help me understand what the path forward looks like and what I need to do to get to my goal of getting this compensation.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

And then you listen to the response. And if the employer says, okay, come back in six months and we'll look at it, then you have a path forward. If they say you need to take on more responsibility, first I would say ask for specificity and clarification on that of explain to me how you would like to see me take on more responsibility. But again, if that's the answer, then you also have something to work towards. But here's the important part if you ask for something and you're told multiple times, or if you're told no and the company doesn't seem interested in working towards a yes to your request, then you have information. And information is powerful. You have the information that maybe this company doesn't value you the way you value yourself. Again, important information to have. And then you can look and evaluate is it time for me to move on? And is it time for me to maybe find a company that will pay me what I'm worth?

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Absolutely. And we've talked a lot, Ann, about like money and compensation, but I want to throw out there that negotiating is not always just salary. We can negotiate beyond salary because when you look at rewards and recognition, there's your total cash, what you're paid in base, and maybe if you get a bonus. And then there's, of course, benefits, and there's all these other things that companies have paid time off or gym memberships or all these other things. Because while salary is important, it's not everything. And different people have different values of what's important, right? And sometimes if salary is off the table, maybe you ask for some more vacation, right? Maybe you ask for flexible work arrangements or remote, remote work, or compressed work weeks, work at four days at 10 hours. That might matter more to you than money. So I think when you really think about it, think about what's most important to you around your there's the money part, there's the people you work with, there's the development and the and maybe you want some more training, there's the working environment and where you work. There's different things to think about around things that are important. And like I said, there's the pay, and then there's where you work, your flexibility, there's your development, and there's vacation time, and probably a lot more that we're not saying. So think about all of these things and what they're important. Again, above the red line, non-negotiable, and below the red line, what's negotiable, and prepare to think about those things if salary's off the table.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

And quite honestly, if you could negotiate professional development, which is like MBA course or certification or a coaching program, that really might increase your marketability tenfold and maybe worth an invaluable amount.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Absolutely. And you've also got to think longer term too, right? If we're talking about midlife, maybe you're gonna stay with this company. I don't know. Maybe you don't want to work there till you're 67, but you know when you get out of that company, maybe you want to do coaching or do something else. So any training development you can have will benefit the company, but also benefit your future if you want to do another side gig or side hustle or part-time hustle is gonna help.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Definitely. And then another thing beyond salary, maybe you're negotiating too for a better title because sometimes your title at your employer doesn't reflect your actual responsibilities. And a better title can also open doors for future opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Absolutely. And I know again, with salary, you can also say, okay, I know you can't give me a raise, but do you have any like discretional discretion budget for a bonus? Because sometimes that's easier for organizations to do because it doesn't continue. It's a one-time thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

So there's uh lots of other things to be cognizant of when you're talking about negotiating. And quite honestly, if you could go in and negotiate for some of these things in addition to an increase in salary. But I think we're just the takeaway should be that there's other things that are important and should be important to you other than just the bottom line of what your base salary is and things to take into consideration. So now let's talk about a different type of negotiation, and that is negotiating when you're job searching.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, let's spend a minute on that because if you're coming in from the outside versus within a company, this is a different conversation, but it's also just as important. And again, this is where, and we've talked about it earlier, this imposter syndrome can sneak in. So we have to be really careful to take that voice and put it to the side because when you're interviewing for a new position, you do have leverage and you are worth your skills and your experience. And the company wouldn't have offered you the job if they didn't want you in there and you weren't going to bring value. So that is actually the best time to negotiate. And once you get hired, it's harder and you're stuck and you have to go from where you begin. So that is the time to start and ask for what you're worth.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Here's our advice on this issue. Do not tell the company what you're currently making. If they ask, I would suggest responding with something like, okay, I prefer to focus on the value that I'm going to bring to this role rather than what I've made in my previous position. And what's your range for this position or this role? And if they really are insistent on finding out how much you're currently making or had made in your prior position, then I think you respond with something along the lines of my current salary doesn't reflect the market rate for my experience level. And I'd rather discuss what makes sense for this role in this company and wait until you have an offer in writing and then you can negotiate.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

And correct me if I'm wrong. You know, legally they can't, you can't be forced to tell them what your past salary was.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Correct. And typically when they make an inquiry to a former employer, usually all the former employer can do is confirm dates of employment and position held. I think it's if you give them permission to disclose your last salary, they can do that. But most employers, when called by a prospective employer, just give out dates of employment and position.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

That's yeah. Again, yeah, you because you don't want to put yourself into a corner and then you have no room to negotiate. Okay, now you get the offer in writing. And when you get this, you say, Thank you so much for the offer. I'm really excited about the opportunity. And I want to make sure that the compensation and the offer reflects the value I'll bring to the role. But I was really looking more of a range based on XYZ. Can we discuss that? Now, a lot of times these days, given where we are with technology, sometimes this can be by email, right? Sometimes you'll get an offer in writing and you have to say can you can respond by email. I would propose you always try to get on the phone and talk to a human. Don't you put it in writing after you agree on something, but I would not try to do this over email because you really need to have that live conversation. But you negotiate after you they say, sure, we can discuss that. And you get on the phone and then you negotiate. And everything we talked about earlier applies, right? Except now you just have more leverage because they've already decided they want you.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

So true. So you go into that conversation with that prospective employer who is wanting to hire you with confidence and prepare for the conversation of negotiating for more than they may have made in their initial offer. Also, when you're job seeking, don't accept the first offer, even if the salary is good and even if you're excited about the role. To Mel's point, you want to like step back, which she mentioned earlier during this episode, step back, reflect on it, think about what the offer is, and then ask yourself, can I negotiate? If I can, what would I ask for? Because we've seen so many women leave money on the table because they were just grateful for the offer and they didn't even think to negotiate, and you don't want to be that person.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Can we talk now about little dealing with the guilt around this? Because I think that's really a possibility for some people.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah, and we're gonna be straight up about this. After you negotiate, you might feel guilty and you might worry that you pushed too hard and you might be second guessing yourself. But we want you to know that feeling is totally normal and it absolutely does not mean that you did anything wrong, nor is your employer gonna look down on you because you negotiated for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Exactly. But it's there, and let's just acknowledge that here's why the guilt shows up, right? Because you've probably spent your entire life being rewarded for being accommodating, or maybe for not asking too much, or for being grateful. So when you actually are at a point in your life when you're asking what you're worth, it sometimes might feel wrong or selfish or aggressive, even if it's completely accurate and you're calm and professional. But here's the truth: asking for fair rewards or compensation for your work isn't ever selfish. It's taking care of yourself and it's really taking care of your future.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

And it's not that you're ungrateful and it's not that you've been aggressive in the discussion. And here's something else that when you negotiate fairly for yourself, you're actually helping your employer. You're helping them by being direct about what you need to stay engaged. Nobody wants somebody working for them who's totally disengaged. No. And you're helping them by modeling healthy boundary settings, and you're helping them by bringing your full confident self to work rather than a resentful, undervalued version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

So, bottom line, if the guilt shows up, we want it to encourage you to notice it, acknowledge it, and then let it go. And say to yourself, you know what? I asked for my worth and this is healthy and this is right, and then move forward.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

So the bigger picture. Let's zoom in for a moment and talk about why this matters just beyond your paycheck. When you negotiate, you're not changing your financial situation. You're changing your relationship to money and power and worth. And you're saying out loud to yourself and to the world, I am worth something. I deserve to be paid fairly and I deserve to take care of myself. That's powerful. And then it ripples out into the universe.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Yeah, and research actually shows that when women negotiate for themselves, they're more likely to negotiate for others and more likely to mentor younger women and speak up for inequity, right? And push for fairness. So when you're modeling that confidence and you're setting those boundaries, it's it's you're invincible.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And so when you're negotiating, you're not just changing your own financial trajectory, but you're changing the culture around you. And you're showing other women that it's possible to confidently negotiate for yourself. And you're contributing to a societal mindset where women's work is valued and compensated fairly. That's worth the discussion, the discomfort of having that hard conversation in hard negotiation.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Oh, yes. And so this is very obviously it's an uncomfortable topic to even have to talk about. How do you ask for more money, right? But we want to empower you and motivate you and be your cheerleaders to just go for it. But to go for it, you have to have an action plan. There's our action plan, everybody. We all know Mel Low is the action plan. So we've covered so much ground. So we're gonna give you some concrete action steps so you can actually do that. Do this, right? So we're gonna talk about some things you can do this week, next week, or within a couple weeks. And I'm gonna start with this week. And this is the most important is spend one hour if you are looking for a job or you're gonna ask for more money within your job, one hour researching the salary data for your role. Use Glassdoor, PayScale, LinkedIn, any professional resource that's available and write down that range you find. And make sure to remember to put in the geographic location that you live in, and also consider that if it's a virtual role and you're working across geographies, to look at those other geographic related or geographic areas as well, because that's a consideration, right? Then make a list of three to five specific accomplishments or contribution you've made in the past 18 months. And this might already be on your resume, right? But really hone in on what they are according to this job and the roles that you'll use in this job job and be specific about the impact and the results that you achieved in this role in this company or would achieve at the new company. And then identify what you're asking for. Is it a specific amount? Is it a better title? Is it more flexible work? Is it a different work schedule? Is it all of those? Is it all of those? Write it down and prioritize those so you go into the conversation when you have it, knowing what you want.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

And now once you have that information written down, you're going to the following week practice your ask out loud. You're going to notice how you sound and adjust your tone and words until you feel clear and confident in your ask. Write down answers to three objections that you think might come up and practice responding to them. And we talked about some of those objections earlier, but you know your company's culture, you know your company's financial position. So really think hard about how there might be objections and how you're going to respond. And then in that week two, your last action item is schedule a meeting with your manager or the appropriate person to have this conversation with. Or if you're job searching, commit to not accepting the first offer without negotiating. So then let's talk about the week after that, Mel.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, have the conversation and ask for what you're worth. And remember, you're prepared. You know your value. You did all this work beforehand and you belong in that conversation and you belong in the position to ask for money. And after that conversation, make sure you write down what happens and what happens next. Did they say yes? Did they say no? Is there a timeline? And if they did say, okay, here are the things I need to see before we can give this to you, make sure you write that in an email or in a document, you send it back to that person and you ask for their validation. This is what I walked away understanding. Do you agree and get that in writing? Because sometimes people forget of convenience and you can always go back to that and say, no, this is what we talked about, and I did this if you have quantifiable results.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

You want to have your evidence, Andy. Yes, you do. And then, fun thing, do something nice for yourself. You did a hard thing, you advocate your for yourself, and that deserves acknowledgment. Absolutely. Even if it's just going down the street and getting a latte somewhere, just take a few minutes to acknowledge what you did for yourself. And then let's fast forward a month later after you did that research and a few weeks after you had that heard conversation. Check in on what was agreed. If you got the raise, verify that it was in fact in your next paycheck after the raise was confirmed. If uh the response to your ask was a no, uh, confirm the next conversation date of when you're gonna have a follow-up conversation. If you're in a new job, uh review the compensation package and note what you negotiated. Make sure you compare what they're actually giving you in that new position to what you believe you negotiated. And again, to Mel's point, ideally you'll have had a paper trail. So you can just pull up that email and then review your compensation package and match everything up. And lastly, reflect on how you feel. Did the fear of negotiating turn out to be worse than the actual negotiation was? And what did you learn from all this? Did you learn how to feel empowered, confident? Did you learn how to advocate for yourself? And here's what we want you to know as we wrap this conversation up. You are worth negotiating for, and you are worth the hard conversation, and you are worth fair compensation for your work.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

And every single conversation that you have, even if it's awkward, even if it's uncomfortable, it really does matter. Be brave. You can do it, right? If you do the research and you make the ask and you negotiate like you mean it, because you do mean it, you deserve to be paid what you're worth.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

And then, just as a takeaway, here are some key numbers for everybody to remember. We talked about how a $5,000 annual raise could easily amount to at least $110,000 over 22 years. Every 1% raise difference compounds over your career. And I love this statistic. Peak earning years are typically between ages 45 to 55. So make them count.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Exactly. And the action items and framework that we've just shared hopefully give you everything you need to negotiate, like you mean it. But the key is remembering that it's not only acceptable, it's essential. You deserve it, and your future actually depends on it.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

So, thanks for joining us for this serious topic about negotiations on midlife interrupted and unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

If this episode hit home, share it with a friend who needs to hear it, and maybe that friend isn't in midlife. Some of this information might be helpful to other generations.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

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SPEAKER_00 43:51

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SPEAKER_01 43:54

And we're continuing the conversation and building this community together.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

And until next time, keep interrupting. Those narratives and stay unfiltered. And we will see you next week.