SPECIAL EDITION: A HEALTHY MONEY DISCUSSION

SPECIAL EDITION EPISODE:  

A HEALTHY MONEY DISCUSSION WITH ANNA BARNES CFP®, CDFA®

In this special edition of Midlife: Interrupted & Unfiltered, Anne and Melissa sit down with Anna Barnes, CFP®, CDFA® for a healthy, honest conversation about money, financial independence, and the emotional baggage so many women carry around finances.

Anna is a partner, advisor, wealth and investment manager with FAS Wealth Partners, where she became the firm’s first female partner. But beyond her impressive credentials and leadership, Anna brings her own reinvention story: at age 40, she walked away from an established, successful career to start over in private wealth management, choosing meaning over momentum.

Together, they unpack why money feels so emotionally loaded, especially for women in midlife, and why so many of us avoid talking about it until a major life event forces the issue. From divorce and widowhood to career pivots and starting over, this episode explores what financial independence really means — not just as a number, but as freedom, flexibility, peace of mind, and choice.

Anna shares practical, empowering insights on:

• the biggest financial blind spots women often have
• why overwhelm, fear, guilt, and shame show up around money
• how childhood experiences shape our relationship with finances
• what women should know before making a major life pivot
• the power of compounding and why it’s never too late to start
• how to find a financial advisor who is both qualified and trustworthy

One of Anna’s most powerful takeaways: ownership.
If you don’t control your money, your money will control you.

Whether you’re navigating a big life transition or simply ready to feel more informed and confident about your finances, this conversation offers both reassurance and real next steps.

#MidlifeInterruptedAndUnfiltered #WomenAndMoney #MoneyMindset #FinancialIndependence #MidlifeWomen #Reinvention #HealthyMoneyDiscussion #WomenOver40 #Ownership #RealTalkRealToolsRealConnection

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered. I'm Melissa, coach, counselor, and professional truthbringer. And I'm Anne, trial lawyer, accountability partner, and certified Pilates instructor. That is true. We're two East Coast women who met at kindergarten drop-off. And 15 years later decided Midlife needed a megaphone and not a mute book.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

So we're here to interrupt the negative narratives.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Anne share the unfiltered truth about reinvention and perimenopause and everything in between. Real talk. Let's go. Okay, so welcome to today's special episode, a healthy money discussion with our first of many incredible guests. This episode's special guest is Anna Barnes. She is a partner advisor, wealth, and investment manager with FAS Wealth Partners. Anna holds an MBA from Rockhurst University and holds the designations of Certified Financial Planner and a more unique niche certification or designation of certified divorce financial analyst. Anna joined FAS Wealth Partners in 2019 and she became the firm's first female partner. Congratulations on that, leading strategic initiatives across business development, marketing, client experience, and integrated planning. She did this while remaining a practice advisor to high net worth and ultra-high net worth families. She's been instrumental in helping to grow FAS wealth partners to around $4 billion in assets under management achieved entirely through client relationships and referrals without acquisitions or private equity backing.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

We'd like to also note that before joining FAS, Anna spent 16 years at Ivy Investments, ultimately serving as head of national accounts. As part of that leadership team, she helped catapult Ivy into one of the top asset managers across major broker dealers building and managing relationships with some of the largest wealth management firms in the country. However, Anna has her own reinvention story because at age 40, she walked away from this established career at Ivy to rebuild in private wealth management, choosing meaning over momentum. This transition was driven by something personal. Anna immigrated to the U.S. from Ukraine at age 11, and the experience of starting over, watching her family rebuild from scratch, shaped her approach to every challenge with optimism, resilience, and a commitment to making the path easier for others. This commitment shows up not only in her day job, but also as an avid community volunteer. She has co-chaired some really big events. Noting Big Brothers Big Sisters Casey Rise, Well Sky Gala, she leads the American Heart Association's Circle of Red, and she advocates for growing futures in its mission to expand early childhood education. She also mentors women across the financial services industry and has championed pay equity throughout her career, having navigated those barriers herself. She feels a responsibility to make it a little easier for the women who come next.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Well, we can all agree, Anna, you are extremely impressive and an awesome human being, especially all that volunteer work. That's amazing. Let's dig in and get started because I know your time is valuable. So today we want to not only learn about Anna's journey, but also help all of you, our listeners, feel more informed, more confident, and more empowered to take control of your finances, no matter where you're starting from. So Anna, let's start and we'll turn it over to you. To start off, can you share a little more about your life experience and how this led to you specializing specifically in helping women become more financially independent?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Well, first of all, let me just tell you, I'm super plattered to be on and excited to spend a little bit of time with you and your listeners. I'm a big podcast consumer. So this is a big honor to be out there with an audience and being able to directly talk to you a lot of your listeners. Thank you. And yeah. And so the question of like kind of when the journey that led me to here and why I made the leap is really, it's really intertwined with so much of life's unexpected opportunities. I was fortunate enough that when an opportunity came my way, I was in a position to take advantage of it. As you noted, I had a very long career on the institutional side of the business and asset manager in management and loved it, traveled a ton, met a lot of really bright, interesting people, worked with some of the biggest institutions in the world. And it was really great until the time that I looked around and really asked myself the question of what comes next? Do I do this for the next decade and kind of sail into retirement? Or is there something else and a way for me to expand on all of that institutional knowledge and channel it into something different and something that maybe would feel more fulfilling? And that answer was right in front of me. It was at FAS. And the reason is because my stepdad founded the firm in 1979. And so I've known it for a very long time. I was very obviously familiar with people that were running it at the time. And then about probably 10 years before I joined it, my husband actually left a long career at Cerner to get his CFP. And he's now one of the two managing partners at FAS. So all that to say is I was I was very fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. And at the point in my career that I felt confident that I could do something that would stretch myself and continue to build on what I've done, but make more of an impact on real people.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Did you feel nervous before taking the leap? Clearly, you knew a lot about FAS and were comfortable with the entity itself. But still, even though knowing all that, didn't you have some hesitation? Because anytime we're all doing something new or making a big change, it is a little anxiety behind it. Did you feel any type of trepidation or being like, is this really what I'm about to do?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah, I think nervous, every emotion you can cycle through that I went through all of that. Definitely nervous. It was almost like disorienting in a way because I was leaving such a big part of my identity and ego was wrapped up in who I was in a business card and the career that I built and the name I had in the industry. And candidly, I was very financially secure in having a big paycheck from an established organization. And so leaving all of that behind the self, the financial piece, the relationships to completely reinvent and start from scratch felt incredibly nerve-wracking. I would say it was equal parts excitement and what the heck am I doing? And so it was definitely a very clear path forward. It was the fear and the confusion that came with that reinvention was real. And what kind of got me through that hurdle is being very prepared. I talk a lot with women in my practice that are maybe in that same transition period. And whether it's a big career transition or buying a business or even a divorce, a lot of these big monumental changes are way less scarier when there's a plan in place. And so I really gave myself permission to take that leap because I was overly prepared and knew that there were things I could do to mitigate the risk of this thing not working out.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

And did you have to do any additional certification or did you do anything as part of the transition to get in that niche of working as a divorce financial analyst and also working more with female clientele? Or was that something you had when you came over to FAS?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, that's a really good question. So when I before I before I joined the firm, I got my CFP, which only I think it's only 20, 25% of the industry advisors have that designation. It's very, very hard to obtain, even as an industry vet, it was that that process was no joke. And so I did that first to really equip myself with the knowledge that I felt was important to carry through to working with individuals and families. And then when I started in the practice, I just very naturally gravitated working towards women. It wasn't anything that I intended on doing. I didn't want to curve out a client vertical. I was very honest with myself as to what I wanted my part two of my career to look like and who I wanted to work with. And I just kept coming back to, gosh, I just really want to work with women more. And that was in part shaped by the fact that the majority of my career, I was the only woman in the room. And so I really wanted to experience something else. And then the other side of it is when I joined the firm, there's just so few women in this industry. And like you said, I was the first female partner at FIS. And when I first joined the firm, it was just natural that women started coming to me for advice. And women love referring other women. And the more I dug into what it's like to work with women, I just was super fulfilled by being their financial partner. So it was a very organic kind of niche.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

That's awesome. And that was going to be a follow-up question did you feel fulfilled once you made the transition? And obviously the answer is yes, and you continue to feel that as you work with these individuals. So, Mel, do you want to take it from here into the emotional side of things?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Absolutely. And I like you shared you were vulnerable, Anna, and you said it was overwhelming. It was scary to do this. But I gave myself permission to take the change. And so I thought maybe we could explore a little bit about why obviously money was at stake here too. Like you said, you were leaving behind a paycheck, but why money in particular can feel so emotional and overwhelming, particularly for women in midlife? And I'm just curious, from your perspective, especially given your niche, why do you think so many women avoid talking openly about money until maybe something happens or they have a transition? What's your view on that?

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah, no, it's so interesting, Melissa. I think about this all the time because I have a super close group of friends, and I'm incredibly fortunate to have a phenomenal group of women around me. And we talk about everything. We talk about our deepest fears, our health concerns, our marriages, our kids, the deep, deep, super personal stuff. But we never talk about money. And I think that's the societal norm. There's something about money that feels particularly emotionally loaded in a way that almost nothing else does, because it touches everything that is identity and a measure of success, comparison, independence. There's all these under, there's an undercurrent that has to do with money and finances. And unfortunately, in our society, the reality is people do use it as a measuring stick. And so it and not even in so much that do you have more or less, but are you good with it or bad with it? It's the easiest way to measure if you've been successful with money or not. Much harder to say that about parenting or marriages or anything else, right? So there's just a little bit more insecurity about are you keeping up or are you falling short? Are you doing okay, or is there a big hole? And there is a book that I recommend to everybody on the topic of money. And it's called The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. And the FIS actually hosted a client event where Morgan was a speaker, and I just can't say enough about what a phenomenal expert he is on that topic. And he talks about this idea that money, the doing well with money, isn't about what you know about money, it's how you behave. And that behavior is it's all about are women comfortable talking about money because they feel like they're not smart enough to talk about money? Is it that they don't have a relationship to money where they feel like, gosh, I'm uncompetent. I know what I'm doing with it, and I want to share that and pass that on. And so I think even the most successful women that I work with in my practice that are entrepreneurs or executives C-suite, they feel like, gosh, I'm supposed to know this stuff, and maybe I don't. And maybe I have managed a household and the family for the years, but deferred to my spouse to take care of the money piece. So I'm maybe a little bit more embarrassed to talk about it. And so they don't. They don't ask about it. And by they, all of us, we, I put myself in that bucket too. It's not an intelligence issue, it's an emotional issue of we just don't feel safe enough to talk about it without it being judged. So I think a lot of it is again goes back to the fact that women are, generally speaking, not the financial decision maker in the home. They're part of it, they're in the passenger seat, but somebody else is probably driving it. And that's not to pass judgment on not being right or wrong. It's just that's the world we live in. And so there's a lot tied to it that is much more complex and nuanced than any other topic.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

And what's interesting to you, Anna, I think is how much of somebody's relationship with money and psychology around money might come from what they saw in childhood or how they felt or what they internalized, you know what I mean, throughout what their relationship with money in midlife is, can very much have stemmed from whatever the dynamics or whatever they learned over the first 20 years or something about somebody's relationship with money and how people value money and judge people with or without money. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

So, and that's such a great observation. I believe actually Morgan Housel talks about this in one of his books, where there's some study that says that most people have formed their relationship to money at the age that they're seven. So if you think about yourself as a seven-year-old in the household, and how was money talked about? Was it not talked about at all? Was it a taboo topic, or was there a lot of wealth around, or was there not enough? And that parental stress around not having enough, how did that shape you? Or was there control of finances in the house by one parent or another? Like all of those kind of things really do shape and show up as adults. And so I'm actually a prime example of this because my husband and I are both CFPs. I mentioned that he's managing partner at FIS. And so we're very well-versed on this topic and have worked with so many clients over the years that have different, obviously, different financial lives goals. And what I will say is most common observation is in any room where we have two spouses present, they think about money differently. And in my household, both of us are CFPs. We are trained in this. And we think about money differently. And our relationship, our emotional triggers, our like how we view the world through the lens of money and what it, the resources that it provides, the safety behind it, that all of the kind of the muck that comes with it. My husband and I look at it differently because we grew up in different households. And I think that's a very important thing to know, especially when things about money come up. And is this coming up right now as an adult woman? And what do I need to pause and think about? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

No, that that is so on point. And especially considering both you and your husband or CF, I really do think of a lot of times all of a sudden it'll be a trigger when you don't even know it's going to be a trigger, just based on life experience with that money.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

And given we're talking about women, but this obviously applies to everybody, this topic, it can apply to a male too. But I'm curious, Anna, for those clients that you have in midlife, and I say that in a quote because you can say midlife is anywhere from 37 and upward based on research, but what emotions do you see most of the time in that age range that show up first when they come to you?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

So I would say when I see a woman in the practice, usually she comes to me because there's been a loss of spouse due to death or divorce. That is, at least in my experience, that usually there's like a trigger. And at that point, the number one emotion that shows up is overwhelm. And that overwhelm comes from a big cataclysmic life event where you're possibly mourning either your past life as a partner or again the death of a loved one. And that, and on top of that emotional burden comes that financial anxiety of, oh gosh, what do I do now? And overwhelm is there, regardless of wealth. I've seen incredibly wealthy people in my office that are just as scared as someone that was a single mom because change is taking shape and there's pressure to do the right thing. And and then guilt shows up too. Guilt shows up in a way that fits not a woman in midlife, but it's a couple. It shows up as, oh gosh, we really should have done this and that. We well, we should really shouldn't have bought the second home. We shouldn't have remodeled the kitchen, or I shop too much, or I feel guilty that we spent way too much money on our kids' education and not enough for retirement. And so, with overwhelming guilt and fear and shame and confusion and all the other stuff that can come up, a lot of that, like the longer it sits, the heavier it gets. And what usually happens is even within an hour of a first introductory meeting, where usually there's a triggering event, and it's the first time we're getting to know each other, the person or people in the room come in really anxious and tense and leave relieved, having solved nothing, but just having acknowledged, okay, here's what's going on in our lives, and what do we do about it?

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah. And having knowing that there's going to be a plan in place. And then with that plan, I think people can feel more of a sense of control, even though we can't control everything going around. But taking those first steps to a meeting with someone like you then starts to create the momentum of, okay, I'm getting a plan in place and I'm going to start either evaluating my wealth situation or making some changes. What would you say? So in this series, we've been talking about financial independence, not just about being wealthy, but about stability, freedom, choices, the things that money can do for people in terms of flexibility and again, really empowerment. And a lot of times it requires self-advocacy and negotiation at times. And being a lawyer, I know maybe a little too much about negotiations, the good, the bad, and the ugly. So, what do you think financial independence means for women in midlife? And I don't necessarily mean a dollar amount, Ian. I just mean maybe with the relationship with money of how you view the definition of what financial independence really means for women in midlife.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Um, that's such a good question. A lot of times that question is asked of me by saying, How much do I need? Because everybody's different, right? Even my husband and I, we probably, if we were to assign a number, that number is probably different for each of us. And when to me, financial independence really means doing what you want, when you want to do it, where you want to do it, with whom you want to do it with. And I know it sounds super broad, but it's really is it's really just that it's both obviously the emotional safety, but also just the freedom of knowing that whatever your situation you're in, you're safe in it. And if you don't like it, you can change it. If you want to do more of it, you can tap into your Resources to enhance the life that you're living. And for some folks, financial independence is knowing that you can scale back professionally. For others, it's to help take care of kids, parents, travel, and have the peace of mind to know that retirement is intact, even though all those boxes are checked. There's something really powerful about knowing and defying that for yourself because if every person's different. And it's actually, it's the my favorite part of doing a financial plan, either for an individual or a couple, is really starting to define that, right? And asking a lot of questions before we even talk about numbers, we spent so much time understanding what financial independence really means for you. Because it's truly different for every individual. But like I said, for me, and the simplest way I think of it is just optimal flexibility and peace of mind.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Yeah, no, that is so true, and it's going to differ for every individual. But to your point, when we're talking about a plan and sitting down and meeting, knowledge really is some power. And so then when we're talking about having the knowledge and people having the wherewithal to sit down with you, figure out, okay, what does financial independence mean to me? What do I want this to look like? What do you think are the biggest financial blind spots that you tend to see with women and what they overlook? And to your point, we're all in this meeting right now, we're all successful, independent women. But at the same time, we may defer certain bill paying or certain decisions to spouses. And so I know that many women do that, but I think you can do that, but also not have huge blind spots in knowing where your stuff is, what assets you do or do not have. So what do you think the biggest blind spot is? And we do this not in judgment, but to let people know hey, like look into this and empower yourself by figuring out where your blind spots are.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

I think that the set I love that you keep bringing up the fact that we need to stop judging ourselves. We need to stop beating ourselves up. I think that's like almost starting there is more important than anything else. In my own household, I defer all the financial by the number stuff to my husband because I'm doing this kid's schedules and the doctor appointments and keeping the household work running and a million other things that we as women take on that are intangibles. And so I think it's absolutely fine, and it works really well for most couples to break that out. I think the blind spot is to not be prepared to manage finances alone. And I don't say that to be dark, but the numbers are what they are. 80% of men die married, 80% of women die single. Wow. And yeah, and I've just read somewhere that the average age of a widow in the US is 59, which is really young, if you ask me. Yeah. And so the numbers are the numbers. Most of us end up being heads of household at some point. And the number one advice I would give to women is don't let that event of something happening to your spouse, whether divorce or death, be the first time that you're really looking at your finances. And it doesn't mean you have to be in the weeds day to day, but the big picture, I would say, you know, my advice is for women is if the average age of widowhood is 59 and most marriages end of divorce, it's a lot of years to navigate alone. I see this in the office all the time when the women are for the first time charged with all of that kind of administrative burden of running a household and the money piece and the emotional transition. And being less involved on the financial side than men, it's a normal blind spot. Yeah. I think that the women that I meet with are sharp, successful, they're capable. There's all sorts of studies that actually say that women are better with money than men on paper. But if something happened tomorrow, do you even do you know where your money is? Do you even know where the logins are? And so that's the blind spot. It's not that women can't handle it. It's that they're just probably not prepared for it because we're so busy with everything else.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

And to that point, that's something that wouldn't take a lot of time. And I think everybody should do of let people know where your information is, that God forbid something happens to somebody, that they know where to find it, whether it's with a certified financial planner like you or something, of who knows where the bank accounts are and what the passwords are, so that people can actually access that stuff. Because I've seen situations where people don't even know where to start of finding where their father who passed away was keeping anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

That's exactly right. We've we counsel so many people in our office that are going through a death, right? Of a parent, of a spouse. And again, it's inevitable. It's not fun to think about, but not being prepared for it is just really compounds that trauma.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah. And I think just like anything, sticking our head in the sand on any issue never is beneficial. And so to that point, what and we've talked about this in some of the other podcasts on finances, but what do you think are the most important financial numbers that every woman should know? And I don't mean that there's X to the penny amount, but like we've talked about on some episodes of knowing your basically balance sheet of what kind of debt is out there, what kind of assets do you have? What do you think are important things that women should, and really anybody, whether they're single or in a relationship, should be like, okay, I should just get my head around X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I'd say, in terms of the financial numbers, you already touched on it, these are actually really simple. They sound complex, they're not. I would say open up an Excel spreadsheet, put in one column everything you own, in the other column is everything you owe, and then take the difference. That's your starting point. All of a sudden, a lot of times, that's the first time anyone sees a snapshot of their net worth, and it's incredibly powerful. The setting piece is just the understanding your monthly cash flow. Money that's coming in, money that's going out. Is there something left at the end of the month or at the end of the year? Because if there is, that should be working for you. And if there's not, you should be working to tighten things up to allow yourself to have the capacity to save and invest. And then knowing the retirement number, that comes after financial planning. It goes back to what we talked about of how much do I actually need to be quote unquote pre or independent. That's different for everybody. But and through a financial plan, that becomes really clear. And then you're like, okay, now I know what number I'm working towards. And so identifying that is really important. But I'd say, like, beyond those three numbers, I think the most important thing that women don't talk about enough is understanding compounding. And Einstein called it the eighth wonder of the world for a reason. And I think he's said something like he who understands it earns it. He who doesn't pays it. And I and it's as simple as that. And what it is, count bounding is just your money making money. And then that money making money. And then after a while, over time, over and over, it snowballs into something really significant. And so, quick example without getting in the weeds, but if you just invested 500 bucks a month at 35 years old, by the time you're 65, you'd have $600,000.

unknown 30:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

And if you start that exact same habit at 25, just 10 years sooner, you'd have over a million dollars. So it's that same 500 bucks a month, but the big difference is time and compounding. And that concept alone, like really understanding it in your bones, is what moves women from managing money to actually building wealth. And what tends to happen with women is there's there's an assumed complexity about being an investor. And even the concept of compounding feels like woo-woo markets, but it's really, really simple. It's just being a participant. And I don't care how much it is, even if it's 50 bucks a month, that being a participant in the market and letting that compounding work, you know, there's accounts that I've seen people find from an old job when they were 20 years old, they forgot about it. They maybe had five grand and a 401k when they were a kid, and in their 60s, they dig it up and it's six figures. They're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea this was here, because they suddenly forget it and let compound and do the work. So I would say the most important, it's not a financial number, but a financial concept is put money in the market. Women are notoriously slow to adapt to the concept of being an investor because it feels scary or out of or out of touch, but it's super, super simple.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

And to your point, no amount is too small. And then once you start getting it in the market, then your money's working for you. And that's when you want it to do of the passive thing that's working for you while you're out making the other money. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah. Let your money work harder for you than you're working for the money for sure. And compounding it, the simplest way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

And I hadn't heard that about the eighth principle from Einstein. That's pretty awesome. So okay. So talking about the changes and making your money work for you while you're making the money, Mel, do you want to talk about career pivots and things to consider?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I think, and and this again, and we're trying to build off of some other past episodes, but we've talked a lot about reinvention, right? Or purpose-driven change, which, as we said in your bio, you changed for that as well. So if you didn't have some catalyst that was sad or a death or a divorce or something like that, and you just wanted to prepare to make a pivot or a change, what would be some of the things you would advise your clients to have in place before they do that financially?

SPEAKER_01 32:55

And before making any big change, right? It's this is one of those nuanced things where I say two things can be true at the same time. Don't let fear keep you trapped, and don't leap without really looking at the numbers. And as a CFP, we're always trained to leave room for fear and consider risks and the idea that things will go wrong. Nobody knows what the future holds, but we all know that things outside our control happen. And so you have to plan for it, right? So whether it's making a major career leap or leaving a marriage, make sure that you're taking risks without being reckless. My personal example was rooted in, again, leaving a big corporate paycheck to start from scratch. And I would never advise anyone to do that if I didn't have financial security to be able to take that cash flow hit, which is where I was talking about know your monthly cash flow. And so when my husband and I sat down and we're like, all right, we're going to take your paycheck to zero, Anna. Are we going to be okay? And you can tighten things up, you can make things work, you can tap into savings, you can do things to invest in yourself. And without feeling like you have to risk everything just to make a change. So just doing it, making that change, understanding what that really means in real terms is really, really important.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Knowledge, right? Knowledge is power. And that's what we keep saying. Just be keep learning, right? Just be a sponge.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah, and to be very honest with yourself. So I'll give you an example. I see this sometimes. I'll have a really successful, high-earning woman in my office that's like, oh my gosh, 20 years in this grind. I think I'm done. I want more flexibility, quality of life, totally understandable, right? And maybe she says, I'm gonna go into real estate or I'm going to open up a business, which is awesome. And again, this is where I'm like, don't let fear of the unknown and risk keep you trapped if you're unhappy. But let's look at the numbers. And the reality is there's a lot of excitement that can take over, you know, kind of brainstorming these new pivots. And that excitement can't take over before the financial reality sinks in. And the truth is, in those instances where I've coached women, is gosh, it is very hard to immediately replicate a large corporate income from scratch. And as much as I'm super excited and I encourage you to open a business or start a new venture, the truth is if you start a new business, most of them fail. And many entrepreneurs don't pay themselves meaningfully for years. And so if you build the lifestyle around a certain income, that gap can create real strain, strain on the family, strain financially, strain emotionally, strain on the marriage, strain on yourself. And so before you go do that, just being really honest and looking at the numbers and plotting out what is the realistic income, year one, two, or three. Again, whether it's starting a business, new career, or divorce, like how what does life look like if it takes three years for me to get where I need to go? So I love reinvention. I think it's really powerful having been through it. I have a lot of empathy for women that want to pursue that. And I'll be the first to support and help them kind of plot that out. But I'm also really realistic about supporting them while being really empowered by realistic planning.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

And I think that is so, so awesome. And I think in the perfect world, they would be realistic and look at all that. But I can imagine that when women come to you in the in a case of either wanting to reinvent or having something like a major life change, they're coming potentially thinking, oh my gosh, I'm how do I even get there? I'm already behind, or not knowing they're behind. So how do you work? How do you manage that client that already feels like they're behind?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Yeah, that's tricky, right? Because behind, I see knows that there's a fixed timeline that everyone's supposed to be on, right? And there just isn't. And I don't say that flippantly, but it's like, here's where you are and here's where you want to go. And I would say to anyone, it's like planting a tree. The best time to plant the tree is 10 years ago, right? The second best time is today. And and starting at 50 is a lot different than starting at 30. But when you're 60, aren't you be glad that you did, that you took that, that you acted. And I certainly think that it's never too late. When I was 20, I would think that at 40, starting a new career is ridiculous because I would be a grandma. And guess what? I think a grandma is now a 90-year-old, maybe. Ask me again when I'm 70, I'll say 70 is is young, it's brian, let's do something different again. I just think that when you look back, you'll always be glad that you tried and started something. And and so it's I think it's taking the first step and feeling like the only way you can address that feeling of having not achieved or accomplished or having to start over later in life, the only way to fix that is to take that first step to to fix it. And there's not really a measuring stick, and there's not really a shortcut. It's but I certainly think that it's never too late.

unknown 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

And no matter how small that step is, that step will start building momentum. And I think a lot of it is the fear of that first step. And then once people do that first step, just the kind of sense of, okay, I do have some control over the situation and I can make my situation better. But it's that first step that there's so much anxiety around. And once people do that, I feel like they can start building momentum, even if it's a hundred bucks a month, point of retirement account.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, clarity is kindness. I say that all the time. Same thing with finances, right? Get very, very clear where you are and where you want to go. And then that feeling of being from behind is hopefully superseded by having the clarity to like, okay, where do I want to go and how do I do it? And to your point, Ian, I think just taking confidence is built by just incremental steps. It's not by reading a book, it's really just from doing the littlest thing and then building on that.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Yeah. And I think too, which all of us are not great at it. I know I'm not great at it, but giving yourself grace and forgiveness of that if you didn't do something 10 years ago, you can still do it now and don't beat yourself up over it. Look forward, don't keep looking back and figure out how you can make your situation better. Yep, 100% agree. Because we'd all give our friends the grace if they said, Oh, I didn't do this, and you say, Oh, you could totally do it now, where all of us are like, Oh, that was really good for the loss.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Or I think about that all the time. It's funny you said that. I think if I'm hard on myself about something or if I'm going through something where, you know, it's easy to measure ourselves, our kids, our relationships to the kind of the standard. And when I find myself kind of sliding into that almost like negative self-talk or doubt, I think, gosh, what would I tell my girlfriend? Tell my kid. And it's kind of it sounds lululu and salt pulpy, but it really works when it just turned it around.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

It totally does because you think then, oh my God, I would never say that to my best friend. I would never say that to Melissa, but I'll say it to myself with a little voice inside my head. So all of our episodes, Melissa is known for her action items. Melissa, do you just want to run through some possible action items that like our listeners can walk away with? And Anna, we've so appreciated before we go to this your time, your knowledge, your insight. And I will be checking out that book of the book. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

And Melissa will take over the action items, but it has truly been a pleasure to work with you today.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

I did I did a what or say exactly what Ann just said. And I think because you are a financial planner and you and you do have these specialties, I guess the instead of giving them action steps to do, which we will, because I want I'd like each woman to walk away today, or any listener, woman, man, whomever, with one action step they can take to feel like they have the they're empowered to take that one step. What is that one step? If they could take one step, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

I would say start by seeing things clearly. And you know, log into your account. If your husband has a 41k, take a look at it. If you have Schwab account that you've set and forget it, take a look at it. Create a login, log in, and just take a look.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

And in terms of those women who maybe they don't have someone like you, they don't have a financial planner, or maybe they don't even know where to start. What would you say are the most important things for them to look for as they look for a financial planner?

SPEAKER_01 42:46

So when choosing an advisor? Yeah. Okay. So here the things I would look for first is I would look for credentials. Unfortunately, our industry is laden with thousands and thousands of advisors that there's a relatively small entry to entry to barrier into this business. It's not like law or medicine where there's years of certifications. And so I'll look for credentials first. I'll look for a CFP. And very importantly, I'll look for a fiduciary. If there's one word to remember, it's that a fiduciary has the legal requirement to act in your best interest, not their own, not the firm's, but the client's best interest. And not every advisor in the industry is held by that standard. But so it's really important that you're working with a true fiduciary. And then beyond the credentials, I think the most important thing is just finding someone that you can be super open with. If I were to replay my career, I would have minored in psychology or even majored in it. Because so much of what we do is talking to people about really uncomfortable stuff. Like we were talking at the top of the episode about why are women so uncomfortable talking about money? Well, they are, right? It's just culturally that's where we are, and we're not going to change that overnight. But in the room with an advisor, that's when your most personal, intimate details of life really start to open up. And a lot of those are tied to money, right? Taking care of ailing parents, tied to money. Sending kids to college is tied to money. Deciding to lease to leave a marriage is tied to money. So much of it is tied to it that the more you can feel like my advisor really gets me. And I feel safe, not judged, not rushed, not talked down to, not over-jargoned, but like completely honest in myself, that's the gauge, right? Trust your intuition and you should feel like, gosh, I can share very intimate parts of me with this advisor. I know that they're going to help use money in a way that's going to support my life. And I think that matters a lot. My relationships with my clients are deeply intimate. And that's like the best part of the job. The market stuff and investing stuff and safeguarding and tax the insurance, all of that, sure. That of course is a huge part of it. That's the CFP part. But the human part is really huge. And if you feel like you can't be real and raw and completely honest with your advisor, it's just not a right thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

I love that. I'm gonna ask you to share one word that women need more of in their self-talk when it comes to money. One word. One word, I would say ownership.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Own it. It's yours. Own it. Stop saying if you don't control your money, your money will control you. And and so I would start seeing money as something that you own and that you're actively shaping around you and not as something that is numbers on paper that gives you anxiety or worry. Own it, make it work for you. So my one word is that ownership.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

I love it. So much, Anna, and thank you to all the listeners for joining us on Big Life Interrupted Unfiltered. And if this episode hit home, please share it with a friend who needs to hear it. And subscribe so we can keep interrupting your week with real talk. Find us on Instagram at the dot interruption, where we're continuing the conversation and building a community together.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Until next time, keep interrupting those narratives.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

And stay unfiltered. See you next time.