Why People Leave Leaders, Not Jobs: The Truth About Workplace Culture

What if the reason your best people keep leaving has nothing to do with the job itself? In this episode of the Love and Leadership Podcast, Trent and Star Postell dive deep into the often-overlooked force that drives people away or keeps them planted: culture. From the signs of a healthy environment to the silent dynamics that make people shut down, Trent and Star unpack what it really takes to build a workplace where people feel safe, heard, and valued. Drawing from their experience running a nearly five-star-rated restaurant in Central Florida, their faith-rooted leadership principles, and the hard lessons learned during seasons of high turnover, they explore what happens when culture breaks down and how leaders can rebuild trust from the ground up. Whether you lead a team of two or two hundred, this conversation will challenge you to ask yourself: what culture are you really creating?

Love well. Lead with purpose. Steward what matters.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What does it look like to love well at home and lead with purpose in the boardroom? Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast, where faith, family, marriage, and business come together to build leaders who last. Hosted by Trent and Star Postel. Love well, lead with purpose, steward what matters.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Welcome everybody to the Love and Leadership Podcast. I am Trent, and this is my beautiful co-host, Star Postel, and we have an amazing and great subject for you today. We're gonna talk about why people leave leaders and not jobs. Now, there's a thing called culture that's involved in that, right? And culture is not something that just simply you write down on a mission statement or something you just say. It's actually the experience of the people. And so what happens is you may walk in a room and guess what? You experience culture right away, whether it's good or bad. So today we're gonna discuss that. We're gonna talk about what are the leadership behaviors that either make or break the culture. Right? So let's talk about culture, Star. Break it down for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah, so culture is definitely everything that you experience where you're at. And when you're talking about an organization or a business, it's it's everything that people feel, not just the employees, but the customers, um, the leadership team, it it's it's the environment around you. It's not only the things that are tangible, but it's those intangibles. It's the unspoken things that everybody kind of knows, but maybe doesn't say. And um, and so culture is is critical for every organization because that's what the organization is standing for, whether it knows it or not, or whether it's trying to stand for that particular thing or not, that is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Absolutely. And you know, and so there's many invisible things that go into it, right? And so there's things that we can see, but so many that we can't see. But again, there's a feeling that you get to as well. So I'm gonna ask you this first question, you know, what are the first signs you can tell that culture is healthy in a place?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Um, I think one of the first signs that you can tell that a place has healthy culture is that people actually want to be there. And um, there's camaraderie. Uh, I mean, there should be visible, visible things that you can name that you can sense, you know, are are people talking freely? Are, you know, they laughing and joking? Are they professional? You know, what are and and I think even with the culture in in a way it's it's subjective, right? So depending on the organization and what it represents is how you want that culture to be and how you want um, you know, the the the aura, the ambiance to come across. Um, so I think, you know, like I said, those signs of people feeling comfortable, people feeling willing to share, willing to communicate, you know, how things look, how they present, um, you know, how the things are presented and um and then how how the structure runs of the organization itself, you know, are we meeting those metrics or is the is the mission getting accomplished of the reason why the organization exists?

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, I mean, there could be so many different, you know, things, like you said, culture represents depending on what organization or what you're trying to get across. But then the day, there's some basic things that everyone has to do to at least make sure that the the foundation of the culture is good, right? And so there's got to be a level of decency, there's gotta be a level of respect, there's gotta be a good feeling where people are happy, they want to be there. And so not only that, they want to be there, but other people can see that too as well, right? And so I think that's just a balance that has to happen as far as you know, not going too crazy and then going above and beyond, like when it comes to like trying to show it, but it's just be it, you know? Because when you try too hard, then sometimes people can feel it comes across as fake, like oh, they're trying too hard and stuff, but you want people just to feel what it is you're trying to play rather than just saying it.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah. When it comes to a culture, I mean, we already mentioned several things that we would want to see. Is there anything that you feel like would be a a sign or a symptom if if there's an absence of it? Is there anything that you're, you know, that you would look for that would not be present um in an unhealthy culture?

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah, I mean, of course. I mean, a couple of things. One, you know, turnover, you know, like if people don't want to be there, right? If there's a cycling in and out constantly of people when it comes, especially people that are that haven't even gotten a chance to, you know, get their feet wet, right? The first 90 days or they haven't assimilated to their, you know, and and so a lot of times that can tell whether good culture is there or not. You know, also too, where people, you know, uh, what do they say about the organization when no one's around, like when no one's around, right? And so, like, do they go home? Do they feel like, man, I can't wait to go back, right? And so do they talk about the organization to their family or their friends, right? I'm happy to work there. And so uh, so I think that, you know, the the the feeling someone has um when it comes to how they portray it to others, you know, when they're not at work, or also too, like I said, do they stay? You know, that's a big telltale sign of whether someone, uh good culture is there because good culture keeps people, you know, like it's you're gonna want to stay, even if it's a difficult job, you know, something about having a difficult job, but people around you that you like working for that are in it with you, that's really good culture, right? And so, because every job is not, you know, easy, right? You think about maybe being a surgeon, right? In a surgeon's a doctor's office. And and so that could be pretty challenging, right? I can I can only imagine how difficult it'd be to be working in such a high stress environment with people you don't like, you know? And so, but if the culture is good, you probably can make a job that's that stressful that uh of of like that, somewhat where, hey, at least I feel like I have a purpose, obviously, with the your what you're doing and saving lives or whatever the case you came before. But then again, the people around you are meeting that culture to where I feel good about what I'm doing and where I'm at at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Yeah, and with culture, I think it's very important that every organization is constantly evaluating where they are at. You know, you can't fix something if you don't even know that it's a problem. And I know with us, you know, uh typically at least once a year we'll we'll do, you know, a training, a meeting, or, you know, a strategic plan around what the culture is in that moment because things change and and things will vary from, you know, month to month and year to year. And even as you mentioned, a lot of times when if you do have turnover, you may have one set of culture and then you have transitions that happen, and then all of a sudden, you know, there's there's uh a new culture and that has crept in and you may not even have realized it.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Absolutely. And, you know, and and one thing, you know, but people they sometimes they don't speak, you know, about, you know, are honest about what's going on, you know, because they don't feel like they have a voice or they even can talk about, you know, hey, like, you know, well, this culture's bad, or I don't feel like I fit in, or, you know, so we don't have a voice. Sometimes that can kind of just leave you, you know, feeling like, man, like where where do I go in this, you know? And so um, so I asked you this question, and actually you're supposed to ask me this, but I'm gonna ask you this. So, so to switch up a little bit. But um, why do you feel people say quiet, you know, when speaking, you know, about an honestly or an unhealthy environment that they're in?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Um, I mean, I think there's definitely several reasons why people stay quiet when the, you know, when, when the culture is not where it needs to be. Um, I think for one, there's often a power dynamic that is unbalanced. So for example, what I mean by that is the leadership may not ultimately be in control of that culture, right? So you think about the schoolyard bully, you know, and the teacher saying, okay, class, let's do this or that. And everyone's looking at each other like, okay, if the bully's not okay with it, we're not doing it. We don't care what the teacher says. And a lot of times, even in um, you know, a corporate environment or an organization, you can have the same thing, you know, we can we can say on one level, hey, this is what we're doing. But if you have certain people that have a power, you know, um uh dynamic that is more of a controlling nature and that are setting the tone for that organization and for that culture, then ultimately what they say and do is what everybody else is looking at. Um, and then there's, you know, other things as well. Um, you know, you you might be setting a standard of fear or even, you know, retaliation. So, you know, people stay quiet because they're worried about all of these things. If if there's something off balance and wrong with the culture, everyone inside of it can feel it.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Absolutely. No. And I think too, um, when you don't feel safe in an environment, you know, that definitely can, you know, hurt that particular, you know, voice that you feel have, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

So why do you feel um, you know, like you mentioned, safety, why do you feel that safety matters so much in in an environment when it comes to culture?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah, I think the emotional vulnerability people have, people want to, you know, feel like that the place that they are, that they have they can be honest, they can be themselves. When you don't feel safe, you're not gonna want to be yourself, you know, in a space. A lot of times you don't even, like I said, speak to anybody around you about things that matter, you know, because those controversial things, if you feel like you're you don't have a voice or you feel like something's going wrong and you want to address it, but you don't feel safety in that, then you know, you don't want to go to your boss and because, like I said, fear of retaliation, fear that nothing will get done. You know, sometimes people feel like if they've seen a track record of people where, hey, I've I've come and I've asked this and I've wanted to change this and nothing's done and it's the same old, then a lot of times they won't come and actually want to voice anything because they don't think that they're being heard. So I think that you know, having a safe environment creates a autonomy where people can actually communicate. Because communication, I think, is a good place to have good culture, right? Good communication where you feel free to be able to voice your opinion and be able to voice where you feel that, hey, I have a voice. And I think that if I can say this thing and it actually, you know, gets across to the right person that something can change, right? And so uh I think that so people want to feel safe, and think about whether you're at home, whether you're, you know, anywhere, you want to feel emotionally safe, right? To be able to, you know, voice the things that are going on inside of you. But a lot of times we keep our most vulnerable thoughts to us or the most controversial thoughts to ourselves when we don't feel like it's gonna go anywhere or like the safety we have is is just kind of eroded from that.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yeah. And you know, we I have uh early childhood background, and you know, we always talk about Mazda's um triangle uh arc um of needs. And um, and one of the the basic needs of of every human is safety, you know, and that might not just be physical safety like shelter and you know, food and things like that and your basic necessities, but that also falls under the category of emotional safety. So people want to feel like they're understood, that they're heard, that you know, that there's not gonna be any any reprimand or consequences for them being themselves.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Absolutely. You know, and and then it it it kind of treads on other things, you know, like when people feel like they don't have safety, it can, you know, can funnel into other areas that then you know stifle so many other things. So I actually this what happens to creativity and honesty when people feel judged or they're in an unsave place?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, I mean, crickets. That's what happens. People don't want to talk, people don't want to speak up, people don't want to be open, they don't want to be honest, they don't want, you know, to be the only one that's actually voicing the problem or the concern, you know. I've been in environments where it's like everybody knows what the problem is. But when you come into a meeting or a setting with leadership, all of a sudden nobody knows anything, you know, and everyone's quiet. And um, so I think, you know, just uh really making sure that you're providing that environment where people feel that they can communicate, that their voices can be heard, that they matter, that they're important is critical for every organization and to really set the culture where you want it to be.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yeah, and creativity breeds, you know, um, a lot of growth in an organization where people can actually contribute. Because when you have creative minds, you have more uh more people that are, you know, uh thinking more than just the leadership. Like, think about how much uh our employees contribute every day to some of the things that we do, you know, right in our organizations and build them. Like if they don't feel like they have anything to offer your organization, then a lot of times they're gonna just cycle out because again, and then that's a bad, that's an unhealthy culture when you have that cycling out and that turnover. So sometimes, you know, there's a statistics that say, you know, 80% of people don't feel like they have the skills or they've been taught the things they need, you know, where they are. And so uh if you really think about that, only 20% feel like the culture where they're at probably is enough to breed them to stay long enough to want to continue at where they're at, you know. So I think that's a big problem, you know, I think in just in general, with us building cultures that want people to stay, feel safe and contribute, because then now they can get to that next place, that next level to build better companies, build better places for us when it comes to our organizations.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah. And I know um with you and I, faith is a big part of our leadership and our journey and, you know, and and how we steward what um God has entrusted us with. So when it comes to um faith, you know, how do you feel like that influences how you lead and the environment that you want to set?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Yeah, uh, faith is huge in that. Um, you know, you know, just just the from the the basics of just, you know, God said for us to love him first and then to love your neighbor as yourself. So for me, um, you know, implementing just loving my neighbor, loving that person, you know, treating people how you want to be treated, the golden rule, right? So if you start there, you can build good culture just based off of how you treat people, you know, when it comes to that. And I feel that as that example for me to start that, then to implement that at the level, hey, where we need to treat each other that same way as and as a team. And so um, the restaurant that we own, you know, one of the things that, you know, we happen to be the highest rated restaurant in all of Central Florida, you know, we have a 4.9 almost perfect five-star rating, you know, uh uh with our Google rating. And that's not by accident that we have that culture. On day one, when I stood in front of the entire team, the first thing I said is, hey, you know, only thing that's gonna be better than our food is our people, right? That's our saying. But, you know, our people have to, we have to be good to each other first within this group before we can even serve the people that come into our doors, before we can give them something. Because if we're, you know, not together, if we're mistreating each other, if our culture inside's not good, how's that gonna portray on the outside to people coming in, right? So if we set good culture with our people first, hey, we serve each other first, we know I didn't say treat them like family because everybody don't treat their family quite, you know, right? But I say treat each other with love and respect to where, you know, you feel like, hey, this is how I want to be treated. And so because we have that culture, that's the baseline of what we do for us, the work workers, then it's the next thing we can treat our strangers that come in that want to, you know, be served by us the right way, right? So, you know, the greatest among us is a servant amongst us. That's what our faith teaches us, right? And so when you root, I think that when you root a lot of your culture into, you know, principles of the Bible and principle of faith, I think you get a lot of result out of that, you know, because principles are principles, regardless of you believe in a God or not, right? If you just do the right things, they're gonna right things are gonna come back to you, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

So when you build culture off that, it's all about it's all about input and output, you know, what you put into something is what you're getting out. And sure. And what I hear you saying really is that, you know, as you're putting into, you know, pouring into your staff and they're pouring into each other and you're teaching them how to, you know, how to properly bond, how to properly communicate, how to respect, how to serve one another, that, you know, out of the abundance of that positive relationship and that positive culture, you know, they can serve everyone else that walks through that building. And then, you know, it's just reciprocal. The customers are gonna be happy, you know, and then in turn it makes it even easier to serve them because, you know, you're you you just have this um, this, this positive positivity that's radiating throughout the whole place.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

100%, you know, and if you think about it, that that culture then builds culture for them outside of the workplace, right? And they can continue that on beyond even where they're doing inside. And so for me, that's where leadership really is born is that when people take what you do and then what they learn, and then they can take it and implement it in their own lives, you know? And so uh, so with that said, let's talk about some applications, you know, like, you know, what are some simple leadership behaviors that can improve a culture immediately?

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Um, I mean, I think one thing that I've noticed over time is that how a leader reacts to a negative situation is going to teach people whether or not they can they can be open and honest with that leader. So for example, if um, you know, something does go wrong and on a smaller scale and one of your employees brings that to your attention, you know, be very mindful of how you're acting and how you're reacting to maybe a negative situation that you didn't anticipate. Because it's, you know, even if you think about at home with your kids, you know, if one little thing happens, you know, if your child, I don't know, breaks, breaks a vase or something, you know, and comes to tell you about it, if you're freaking out already at five years old for, you know, when they're five years old breaking a vase, you know, how how are they gonna feel safe to tell you when they're, I don't know, 15 years old and somebody has offered them drugs or when they're 17 years old and you know, they're worried about their friend that that has been driving home drunk, you know? So I think we build over time a place of, you know, a culture of safety, a culture of um acceptance. And it starts with the small things and the small um, you know, opportunities and moments that we have every day to build that trust bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Absolutely. You know, and and that's important that you said just, you know, those little small things. Because some of us want to get to the big mission statement, like, oh, you know, but it's like we can't get to the big thing until we start with the small steps in between, you know, because it's messy in between that space, right? And so the more consistent you are with just starting with those small things, like I said, acceptance, care, that I appreciate you, like, hey, we're gonna, this is how we're gonna, everyone's gonna make each other feel. And then now we can get to a place in the end where we we feel like we've got to that that big mission that we that we put out there.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, I think another thing you can definitely do right away to improve the culture of an organization is to give everybody a voice, make people feel like they matter. And, you know, it can be something that's formal, um, like uh, for example, brainstorming sessions or, you know, maybe um some kind of uh chat where you guys are actually welcoming input for different things, um, or it can be things that are a lot more informal, you know, just asking a lot more open-ended questions, having more conversations with your staff. So I think, you know, setting that culture that you welcome communication, that you welcome opinions, you welcome diversity, and that you're willing to uh do what's necessary to have everybody's input come to life is also setting, you know, the right culture that people want to be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, and I like what you said, but you know, it it starting right from the beginning, you know, a lot of times we we gloss over orientation or when someone comes in, we want to hurry up and give them all the rules and this is how you do your job and and you know, and those steps, but we forget to say, hey, you know, first off, this is our culture, right? This is what we're really about. Also, too, we want you to be a part of that. You know, how do you see yourself being a part of that? How do you see yourself, you know, helping us with this? How can you come alongside of us? It's like it you want people to feel like it's not about, oh, I'm getting something out of you, I'm doing it with you. You know what I mean? I need you to help me with this because it's a big goal for all of us to do. So when you get people bought into the big goal by saying that you're coming alongside of me with it, I think that helps, you know, for them to feel heard and then accepted and like all those things you talked about, but it has to be from the beginning because once you come in and you don't feel that immediately, then it's hard to kind of connect after the fact once you start getting into the busyness of your job.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, that's a really good point. Even as you mentioned about orientation, you know, I remember after the uh COVID-19 pandemic, it was just such a frustrating place to be for people that, you know, had to, had to have workers that um were constantly turning over. A lot of times the older population, the more seasoned employees that we had were cycling out for health reasons or, you know, just just for um just the way that they were processing um, you know, the this situation and um and you know, and just their own safety and and for whatever reason. But, you know, that meant that we were getting a younger and younger workforce that was coming in. And that took a lot more as far as culture setting and those orientations. And because of the sheer volume of turnover and and all of you know, the the things that came with with that um situation, you know, a lot of times we were, we were getting, you know, frustrated and we were getting weary, you know. One of my uh scriptures that I that I had to constantly repla you know repeat back to myself was Galatians 6, 9, you know, don't grow weary and well-doing for due season. You'll reap a harvest of blessing if you faint not, you know. And I think during that season it was just so critical to remember constantly that we have to pour into people, you know, because you know, and on the one hand, you're thinking, okay, I'm spending all this time and energy and effort with this person. What if they don't even make it? You know, what if what if they're only here, you know, a couple of months or a couple of weeks? And but then you have to ask yourself, okay, what if they're not? Yeah. What if they're here for a very long time and you haven't set the tone and you haven't, you know, set their um value and their and them as a priority within your organization. Um, so you know, it it you can't you can't skip steps. I mean, when it comes to culture, you just can't skip the steps.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

And it's consistency, right? Like I said, you know, don't grow weary because like because you're doing the right things and someone else does, because you're not always going to find the right person. Sometimes people don't fit your culture. Somebody don't fit what you're trying to do. You can try your best and you just have to let them lead by attrition. But it doesn't mean that you have to reset. At everything because people else don't work out. As long as you're doing the right things, you're being consistent, eventually, like I said, you'll reap that harvest because you'll have enough people that do buy it. And because most people generally want to be about a part of something good, something that's uh mattering. And that's the thing. As long as you have something that people can see that you are genuinely trying to do something good and they want to be a part of, they don't feel like they're being taken advantage of, don't feel like you're just working them just for a, you know, just for the sake of getting you up, you know, promoted or you doing a good job. If they feel that way, then I think they can get to the place where they'll want to join in the culture that you're trying to set and you'll get enough people to to rock with you when it comes to those things.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah. Um, and I think about too, those times when a new leader is having to come into a pre-existing culture that is not a good one.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

That's tough.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Um, and I think that's just, you know, that's that's another thing we could definitely address is, you know, how do you come into a space that's already been established and, you know, try and convince those people that now, okay, all of a sudden now it's a place of safety. Okay, now it's a place of camaraderie and teamwork when it hasn't been before. Yeah. Um, so I don't know if you've ever experienced that, but you know, how do you come into an established culture and rearrange it to what you need it to be?

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, I mean, it's tough because, like I said, depending on what was there before, you now have to come in and you have to blend. You can't just come in and say, I'm gonna establish this and put my fork in the ground and this is how it's gonna be, because the people will be anti that, right? And so you have to come in and you have to try to look at the lay of the land, right? You know what you want to accomplish in the end, right? But it may not happen right away. So one, you have to assess the people that you currently have, see, you know, who can buy into maybe right away to what you're saying, right? And then you're gonna get some pushback and get some attrition from other people. Yeah. And then how can I help bring them along, get to know them, you know, try to get on their level to where they feel like, hey, I care about you as a person, not just necessarily what you can do for me. And and then realize that everybody's just not gonna work out, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Sometimes you have to make bold moves, you know, especially in the movies you're coming in.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

It's because these people, right? Like sometimes people, right? So you're coming in obviously for a reason to help the culture and to build it to get to where it needs to be. So again, being bold and uh and just staying with the fact that, hey, I know what I'm gonna do to make sure this culture is right. I'm gonna be consistent, I'm gonna make sure the right things are happening, the right people are here, and I'm gonna make sure that I'm bringing the right people alongside of me with me and those that don't fit it, I have to be bold enough to say, you know what, I don't think this culture is fitting you. And that's okay. Because the thing is, I like to say this, I like to hire and fire people the same way. You know, I don't I don't get emotional. It's it's business in the end of the day. No, it's not anything personal. So if I just say, I I when I look at someone and say, listen, you know, I think we I've really tried with you. I think you've tried with me. And, you know, I just feel like maybe the culture's not right for the right fit, you know. Um, you know, maybe I feel you may have better, you know, success somewhere else with somebody else. And so that could not just be your fault or my fault. It could be both of our faults together. So, but let's move on to I feel that you can be better, you can grow because obviously you're not growing under where we want to be. And that's my goal is I want to see you grow. And if it's not here, that's okay. So when you can let someone go that way, it makes them feel a little bit better, it makes you feel better, but then also it reminds you that it's not personal. It's about the growth of what you're trying to build there and making sure the culture and the mission is done at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah. And even as you mentioned, you know, that it has to be the right fit. Every single person has strengths and they have weaknesses and they have things that, you know, they're inherently better at than other people. You know, they have a purpose. Every, every person has purpose within them and a reason that they were created and something that they can contribute to this earth, but sometimes it's not within your organization. And you have to be willing to make peace with that. You need to be willing to recognize it right away because, you know, as they say, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. And, you know, when you have staff infection, you know, when you have uh one or two people that just is constantly just butting against the the mission of the organization or they're doing things to to kind of infiltrate in a negative way, you know, you have to be willing to say, okay, this this is just not for you. Yeah, there's other things that you're really good at, but fitting in this mold, in this time period, in this organization is not it.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

And they work it out, right? And so I'm not like lying. Well, you made a good point because one or two people can literally spoil the bunch, right? Or infiltrate and then start getting good people to start kind of turning, like, wait a minute, maybe. And so, you know, when when that happens, you know, what kind of conversations helps restore the trust of the team or to get the team back into the place where, hey, this is our culture, this is the mission, like let's get back on track. What does that conversation look like?

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I think the biggest thing is starting with honesty. You know, you have to address the elephant in the room. And a lot of times when it comes to culture, everybody can see it, everybody can feel it. But if we're not talking about it, if we're not dealing with it, if we're not approaching things head on, then somebody else is taking over the narrative. So if you're the leader and it's your show and you're the one that's supposed to, you know, have stewardship over this mission and you're not doing it, then you you better believe that somebody else amongst the team is inadvertently stamping up as that leader and becoming, you know, that silent influence that everybody else is listening to. So I think that's the biggest thing is just, you know, making sure that you're you're honest, you're open, you're bringing out those conversations and that you're addressing everything head on, what you know, in that timing that it needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Absolutely. And and again, you know, culture, I mean, leadership, it's a big big subject, right? It's not simple, it's not easy, but it's conversations we have to have because when we don't have these conversations like this, then a lot of times people feel lost. Again, that's that of just 80% of people feel like, hey, I'm at my job. I don't know, I have the leadership skills or the people are developing me, or if I don't even know where I'm going. And it's because of conversations like this are not really being had. How do we set culture? What is culture? What are those things that, you know, I need to be as a leader to make sure culture is good? These are the things that we talk about in this podcast, right? And this is the things we want to continue to talk about because we want you out there, the people that are needing this to actually be able to go out there and create cultures that are centered on good leadership, good principles, so that not only you, but the people that you lead can grow to as well. So we want to leave you with a question here as we get ready to close. If someone was working with you for years, or even just think about the team that that that you lead right now, or even at home, you know, what culture would they describe that you leave behind? Right? What would they say about you and what do you represent? And so think about that because if you can answer that and you feel good about what the answer could be, then you're probably on the right track. But if you're like, you know what, I got some improvement to do some areas, hopefully you can listen to this podcast. And so there's something that we said that can help you guys get to that place where you can understand that building culture is so important in leadership and the leadership development of people that are around you. Because without good culture, without having a good place where you feel that you can grow and that you love what you're doing, then a lot of times that effort is not involved in the end, you know. So uh, so again, that's our episode for today. Again, people don't just leave leaders or that they actually leave, they'll leave jobs, they just leave leaders, you know? And so we want to make sure that that doesn't happen to you. And so hope you enjoyed this episode. Again, I am Trent, and this is Star. And before we leave, we always want to leave you with these words make sure you love well, make you lead with purpose and steward what matters.