Why Marriage Is the Ultimate Leadership Test Nobody Talks About

What if the most powerful leadership development program isn't a conference, a course, or a corner office, but your marriage? In this episode of the Love and Leadership Podcast, Trent and Star Postel explore why marriage reveals parts of you that the professional world never will. From unmet expectations and broken communication to learning how to serve, respect, and build a shared vision with your spouse, this conversation gets real about the challenges and rewards of doing life together. Whether you are married, engaged, or just thinking about it, this episode will change the way you see the connection between who you are at home and who you are as a leader.

Topics covered in this episode: How marriage exposes blind spots that work never will Why unmet expectations are one of the biggest threats to any relationship The role of respect in keeping a marriage and a team together How serving your spouse makes you a better servant leader Building a shared vision as a couple the same way you would in business Why gratitude at home fuels success everywhere else Practical habits that help couples grow together instead of apart

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#LoveAndLeadership #MarriageAndLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #MarriageAdvice #FaithAndFamily #ServantLeadership #RelationshipGoals

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What does it look like to love well at home and lead with purpose in the boardroom? Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast, where faith, family, marriage, and business come together to build leaders who last. Hosted by Trent and Star Postel. Love well, lead with purpose, steward what matters.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast. I'm Star and this is Trent. And today in this episode, we'll be talking about why marriage is the ultimate leadership test.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yes, it definitely is. And I've got personal, personal experience in that, and I know this is a fact. And the thing is that there's things about marriage that will reveal things about you that just the leadership in the professional world just can't expose about you. And and why is that? You know, we we're gonna talk about why that is. But at the end of the day, you know, we need to make sure that we show that how marriage shapes growth in ways that the professional world can't. And you hear a lot about people saying that, oh, why should I get married today? And, you know, oh, I I could just, you know, build my professional career, you know, the divorce rate's so high, why even try? Well, there's benefits when you have a successful marriage, right? And we're gonna talk about that because I think it's very, very important that when you have a successful marriage, that these traits that you need, I think to develop leadership and other things in the professional world that you're maybe lacking, actually come out in the most intimate relationship you can have with somebody.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah. And so a moment ago, I um was looking up some statistics related to marriage and leadership. And according to the Harvest Harvard Business School, many of the traits that define effective leadership, such as empathy, patience, accountability, and emotional resilience, are often developed through personal relationships such as marriage.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah. I mean, I can believe that because you know, you gotta think about that's you're you're spending the most intimate time with somebody, you know, the closest you're gonna get, and they get to get everything about you, right? The things that are most vulnerable, the things that they know best about you, the worst about you. So, you know, it's gonna take patience and all kinds of things to get through those things, right? Over a course of years. And so, yeah, so I definitely believe that.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Um, and then another one here from the Center for Creative Leadership says professionals in stable relationships tend to remain in leadership roles longer and have experienced lower career volatility.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yeah. I mean, if you can experience, you know, happy life in marriage for many years, and again, these leadership skills you're gaining and the uh longevity, then a lot of times, like I said, it proves to be in and difficult to be in that space to do it. If you can do it in that space, it should translate in your professional career, right? Because all those things you need to be patient in your marriage and your house, guess what? That should translate in your success and patience in your career, right? So there's many things that you learn in that intimate space that I believe bodes well for long-term longevity in that professional space.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yeah, it's definitely true that there is a lot that you learn from marriage that you cannot get anywhere else. Marriage is its own classroom in many ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

And so I definitely agree with that. So I'm gonna pose this first question to you. It says, How does marriage reveal emotional parts about us that we may not see on our own?

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Um, hmm, let's see. So I feel like the biggest thing is that a mirror um marriage holds up a mirror to you. So a lot of times at work, you're able to, you know, put put your best foot forward. You're able to, you know, show the the space of you that you want to. And at home, that person gets to see every single side of you and they get to see it in every single season, every time of the day, every time of the week, every time of the month. There's no hiding. There is no place to hide. They get all of you the good, the bad, the ugly, the ups, the downs. And in turn, you get all that yourself because again, that person many times is holding up that that mirror. They're they're, you know, telling you about yourself when you're coming at them the wrong way or when you're doing things that, you know, maybe are out of character for you. You're you're not able to just go in your office and close the door because you're having a rough morning. You know, you're gonna have to um be exposed to that person at all times when you're in a, you know, in an in a home romantic relationship. And those are things that you're gonna have to um, you know, address about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, because you got to get to know all of yourself, right? So all your emotions, it's that's who you are. When you have emotions that come out, that's who that's part of you. And again, like when you're at work or you're in a professional career, a lot of times that stuff doesn't come out because you want to put your best foot forward. Or you hold those emotions and guess who gets to get them when you go home? That significant other or the person that you're with, right? So they get to see all that side of you, they get to carry all that stuff. And everybody at work, they don't get to do any of that. So now if the people at work only see one side of you, but not the whole part of you, then guess what? One, you can't get the critical feedback you need about yourself because you don't get honest feedback. You're just gonna get the feedback that's, oh, well, this person does this well and that well.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

And then I think too, you just mentioned honesty. I think that's another big thing in a marital relationship is you know, supposedly it's till death do you part. Supposedly you've made this commitment and you're going to be with this person for better or for worse at all times. And so that person does feel like they're in a safer place to tell you when things are not right. Should be, right? Or when, or they can give you effective feedback fully and completely, whereas somebody at work or even one of your direct reports may not feel comfortable doing so.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah. And and that's how it should work in a successful marriage, right? But a lot of times why you don't get that in a uh non-successful marriage, because that very that input doesn't come say even a safe space, right? So that communication is not is broken. And so you can't give your to your spouse and you can't get so you can't get that critical.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Or you may be giving the feedback, but the person can't receive the feedback, right? They're not, they're not trying to hear it, they're not in the right headspace, and you know, or maybe they're just not valuing your input.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Right, absolutely. So, you know, so at the end of the day, you know, you want to make sure that you're able to be in a place where somebody can actually see the real you, the all of you, so that you can get the right critique about yourself. Because then it's about growing, you know, especially if there's parts of you that, you know, you want to see get better, then someone who doesn't see the parts that need to get better, they're not gonna be able to help you. You know, you can't have a mentor at work if they don't understand the you know things that you need, you know, behind the scenes, like your spouse may be able to see.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah. Um, in our marriage, where do you feel the uh expectations have quietly crept in and um into our marriage, causing it tension and and things to uh unravel?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, we all have expectations going into marriage, right? And a lot of times it depends, it can come from expectations you had from growing up or what you saw in marriage from before. And a lot of times until you get married, that's when you really understand what marriage really is. So you kind of have to, you're supposed to throw everything else out the window and be like, this is not what I thought. Now I need to relearn. But a lot of times we still hold on to these expectations of what we thought the spouse is supposed to be or what they're supposed to do for you. And when they're not met, I mean, if you think about it, you know, one of the highest things for divorce is unmet expectations, right? Or that lack of communication. A lot of times that's just because someone just was upset or disappointed because their needs weren't met or they had expectations that just were not met or followed through on. And you can't meet an expectation you don't know, right? So um a lot of times I think that sometimes my expectations were unsaid to you. So then if you don't even know what my expectations are, but I'm just frustrated over here because you're not meeting them, it's not fair to you. But yeah, I'm still deteriorating inside, right? And what that does, it gives a blockage in our marriage, I think. And I think especially when we're younger, a lot of my frustration was because I thought you were supposed to be a particular type of spouse or you're supposed to do it this way and not really getting to know you, you know, to figure out, okay, how can I do better for you so that you can meet my expectations, or how can I get to a place where I can communicate to you that very thing, you know, and I think there's a safe place that has to be built, and we don't have any safety in your marriage, which is something we struggled with earlier, right? And a lot of it's because of our own troublesome background. But eventually we were able to start communicating, which then started creating spaces for us to then get that better.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah. And I think um, looking back now, even in our younger years and the beginning of our relationship and our marriage, you know, we came from two completely different households. And I mean, even to the fact of me living in another country for most of my childhood and coming here, um, and then also just the way that our family dynamics were set up and just, you know, some of the issues with abuse and neglect that were in my family did not really prepare me to see what a, you know, quote unquote traditional family looked like. Whereas in your family, you guys were very much the traditional family, you know, the mom, the dad, and and the three kids, literally. Um, and then even with your dad being a pastor, there was just certain, you know, expectations and traditions and, you know, a setup that was sort of already put in place that might have already been put in your mind of what you were expecting your family dynamic to look like and feel like. And then with myself not having any of those things, not really even seeing what that traditional family looked like, wanting it, but not understanding how to achieve it, um, I think, you know, played a big role on why we, you know, why we were so different in the beginning of our expectations going into everything. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And just to dive deeper, if you want to think about that, now, you know, we, you know, we went ahead and said, you know what, we're gonna work on this, right? But when we're in our professional work life, guess what? We don't have to work on those things. Yeah, we can just stay surfaced, we can go home and leave whatever at work and come back and work again. But those personal issues like that, you don't learn that in from working a job or having a career or going after your you know, ambitions. You only learn that through relationship, with relations, right? And so, like, how can you know what a traditional family is supposed to look like if you don't work at that within the context of a relationship, right? Like there's nothing at work that's gonna teach you that. And so that's why it's important to actually, you know, get in relationships that are meant for you or to make that attempt. Because I really God believes, I really believe that He's made us relational for that reason. You know, he meant for us to have a person or people in our lives that we can bond with in that close type way to help meet our felt needs in those areas that are emotional or or trigger our heart and our and our insides. Work is just something else, right? That doesn't trigger those inside things that we need to work on. And so, um, and that's why I believe that, you know, if you have success in this arena of your life, it bodes well for you out there. And so, versus trying to get it all out there and then bringing what you learned out there into a marriage, and you're gonna have to relearn it anyway, because again, this marriage thing is completely different than anything else you can ever do.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, for sure. Um, and I think for us, there was so much of a learning curve. I mean, so much of a learning curve. Absolutely. Not only from getting married in our early 20s to, you know, coming from such different backgrounds, um, to just, you know, all the unmet expectations and all the things that we thought that we never said out loud. So maybe the things you were expecting, you know. I know a big thing for your family was family dinners, you know, whereas my mom didn't really cook ever. I mean, our our you know, her idea of a meal was like hamburger helper, you know, like just cooking up some beef and you know, throwing it with the stuff in the box.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

And we had that too, but but again, the family dynamic, right? Of just like being able to sit down with your siblings. Even if the parents weren't there, me and my siblings would sit down and eat together, whatever the case may be. It was, it was, it was a time where we understood that there was still connection there, right? With uh with just simple dinner, right? Every Sunday having our family meals and certain things like that. So I definitely think that definitely can be a barrier, you know, when you know you're getting together. And, you know, and I think that it can cause some like difficulties in trying to be unified, right? And so I asked you this next question, you know, unity can be difficult in the business world, yet often seems easier to uh it seems uh, excuse me, it's easier to unite in the business world than it is in marriage, right? And you think that staying with your spouse can sometimes be harder than what we expected because of that?

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Uh yeah, for sure. I mean, with our spouse, you know, like I said, we're seeing things in all different seasons. So we're seeing the most challenging moments that they have to, you know, just all the different uh day-to-day challenges. So, you know, when it comes to your home life, there's just so much more that you're being exposed to. And there's such a continuum. There's so many ups and downs. Whereas at work, it's easier to hold it together for a short period of time, you know, especially if you're working a, you know, a nine to five job or something where you can just, you know, you can get it together in the morning, do what you have to do all day long, and then go home. And then that's when you're releasing. That's when you're letting it all out. That's when you're, you know, basically going into your true self. And maybe your true self is not ready to, you know, to to handle all the complications that come with with living with somebody else, with being, you know, connected in such an intimate way to a, you know, a spouse or a significant other. Yeah. And they're getting the brunt of of all of that.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

So there's responsibility in that, right? Like you have the responsibility in uh being with somebody to to connect and to you know, to to meet their needs, their needs, and all that stuff, right? And you have kids and all those things, and then between that two as well, it's a lot more. So at work, you usually just have like one goal that you're all around, like what's the purpose of that company, right? We're all here to make sales, we're all here to do this. And so, like you rally around that one thing. And so it's easier, I believe, to find unity when there's not as much to uh at stake when it comes to the things that need to be met as far as expectations. Because if everyone meets the expectation goal is about whatever you're there to do at work, then hey, you you made job well done, right? And there could be difficulty in that because people were many different people, you know, many different types of you know, personalities and stuff. But at home, I feel there's so many different things you have to unify around besides just each other.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

And at home, a lot of times we don't do just the um, we we really don't take the time to be purposeful and what looking at what unity really is, you know. Like at your job, there's it seems like a lot of times we spend a lot of time on clear expectations, you know, leadership wants um all the subordinates to know exactly what's going on. Like what's the mission? What's the value? You know, value statement is posted up somewhere. And a lot of times at home we don't have that clarity. So we don't have the unity. Where's our value statement at home, right? Right. We don't have the unity because we don't have the communication and then we don't have the clarity.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's really, really key is is trying to find that place where, you know, when we can get unified in the family unit or even just on the spousal level, I think that that begins to open up other doors in other places because again, it's more difficult, I think, in that space to find that. And when you can succeed there, I think you had it both well for success going out in other places.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah, for sure. Um, how do you feel that being married changed the way that you lead people?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Um, that's a great question. I think that, you know, for me, the first thing is, you know, when I learned how to serve in marriage, that made me a better servant leader. Right. The best leaders, I believe, are the people that serve, you know, the people that they're supposed to be leading. And, you know, because I think that they're more adept to want to follow them. They're more adept to want to, you know, do the things that they need them to do. Um, I knew that when I started serving you better, I started getting my best version of you, right? And so, so that example, you know, because you you used to say this to me all the time when, you know, I was always been a nice person, people used to really like my personality and stuff. But it used to be a conflict where man, you treat everybody else out there so amazing and you love them, you go the mile. What about me? And I remember that conversation you had with me, and you said that it really hit me hard. I was like, man, that really, really matters. That sucks, that hurt, right? And because it shouldn't be to where I'm better to people that I'm not as close with, right? Yeah than I am to the person I'm supposed to be serving the most, right? So when I learned that I to serve you better and to treat you better just as well as I'm treating those people, then it made me a better leader because serving you is not hard, but it's not easy. Because you have to also understand your needs and I have to be with you through those times of emotions and when you're not at your best, all those things. You have to be there in the in the in the grind in the trenches. And that's that's what marriage is. That's what real love is, is being with that person when they're not at their best. Because you said for richer, for poorer, for better for worse, till death to his part. I I love you just as much as in your worst days and I do your best, right? Because you don't change just because you have something that's going on with you, I should be there to pick you up, to make you feel better, right? So if I'm willing to do that for my team because we have a goal at work or we have a you know deadline, whatever the case may be, so the company looks good or our company's, you know, winning, then why not do that with the person that's closest to you? Because that's literally what it is. Like you are the closest person, you know everything about me. You've been with me for about 20 something years, right? Over 20 something. So now why would I then invest into somebody else more than the person that's invested in me the absolute best?

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yeah. Um, and I mean, we've gone through so many different challenges and different level of challenges. I mean, from, you know, our son struggling with ADHD and, you know, just kind of all the, you know, the things that um you have to deal with that when it comes to the your child's schooling and, you know, just helping them get to where they need to be. And then even the emotional part of it, you know, talking them through it, you know, day after day, time after time, like, man, why is this so hard for me? And it just seems like it's so easy for everyone else, you know. And so there were seasons where we dealt with things like that, you know, um, I've struggled with generalized anxiety disorder. So there's, you know, there were there was a long season where we had no idea I wasn't diagnosed yet and and hadn't gotten any any type of treatment yet. So, you know, me being able to learn how to process my own um nervous system that was, you know, attacking my body and my mind and you know, just making me anxious about everything, uh any and everything, and us not understanding what that was, you know. So it's not that our marriage has not had many, many challenges. You know, we've moved, we've started businesses, we've been up, we've been down, but you know, us always coming together for the sake of our love, for the sake of our family, for the sake of our faith, and having something to fight towards has kept us going. And then in turn, eventually we found answers for all of these things that we struggled with. So I think a lot of times too, it's it's hard to stay in the fight. And I understand why people don't and why they can't.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Because there's times where we wanted a call it's plenty of times, right? We just felt like we just couldn't take it anymore. You know, you just you'll never understand me, or you'll never help, or you'll never, you know, be able to do this and that. And and I think we people get weary, they just get tired for of feeling like they're fighting the same battle over and over and over. And uh, you know, I'm grateful. I'm grateful that we stuck with it. I'm grateful that we found a way out. I'm grateful that we grew, that we learned, that we loved each other through the hard things. And, you know, the place we're at now is amazing. And I wouldn't trade it for the world, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah. Oh, and then if you think about it, I think it's made us better in our professional life, in our business world, and the patience we grew for our people, the patience we grew for having a lot that we have to handle, right? Being patient with each other, just understanding, like, hey, we, it's okay not to be okay. It's okay not to have it all together. It's not okay not to have all the answers or knowing that, hey, but I got all this going on. Give yourself grace when you didn't have your best day, you know? Like me understanding when you were going through generalized anxiety, when I understood what it was, like me having the compassion for you that I never had before, like, man, like that must be really tough for you. Like, how can I come alongside of you and make that better? Right. I feel like there was a respect that was uh uh gained between us, right? And um and this leads me to my next question. You know, respect is a big deal in the professional world. But what happens when in marriage, like respect is lost?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah, I mean, I think respect is probably the greatest uh culprit when it comes to the beginning of a marriage dissolving or lack of respect, I should say. Because I mean, if you feel like that person isn't seeing you how you want to be viewed, right? They're looking, you know, lack of respect is like looking down on somebody. It's telling them that they're not worth, you know, what they should be worth. And I think that's, you know, that's a basic human right to feel respected, to feel valued, to feel like your life means something, that you mean something. And I think a lot of times in marriage, we might disrespect each other and not even realize it.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

You know, especially in those beginning stages when we're really, you know, struggling or upset, or maybe the way that we're communicating, the way that we're, you know, fighting, there is such a thing as fighting right. You know, you you you can't just say and do everything you want to do. You know, you can't just use your words as a weapon against that person.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

And I think, you know, making sure that you're actively learning and growing and that you're not using strategies that are tearing your mate down.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

And you're building them up because the goal is us, the goal is unity. The goal is to to make it till death do us part. Like we're gonna kill each other if we if we continue to go down a certain path, you know, and that that death to you part is gonna come sooner than what you want it to come. And I think figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

And I think about it too. Like you hear that word respect. Like for a man, that means everything. Like a man's like, I want to be respected. Like when a man feels disrespect, it's the ultimate, like, defile thing. in their life, right? When you want to fight, you want to scratch your claw, like you want, I need to get my respect. And I think like in that could be a dangerous place in a marriage, especially for a man, because that's where men we check out. That's when we start to, you know, stop serving and start doing those little things that we used to do when we were dating or to get your attention. And we'd go find the place where I can get respect. And usually that's in our career, right? Or in our position. And even think about work. Like you don't like to be disrespected at work. I think about even our employees that we employ, like even at the lowest of levels, like a lot of times the thing they get the most upset about is when somebody disrespects them, right? Yeah. And so so respect at the end of the day is something that everybody wants, right? But to you have to give respect if you want to get respect. Right. And I think that that's the ultimate thing in marriage that we should learn is it's a give and take, right? But remember the first thing about that is give, right? When you give, then you can take. If you're constantly taking and then and then not giving, then what's going to happen? There's going to be a lack of um disproportion there. It's going to be imbalance. Take take take but you give a little bit right. Yeah. But when it's tit for tat, I give you take you take then now it's a balance and then we feel there's a mutual respect there because one person is not like doing more than the other. I'm giving all and you're not giving me anything back. Right. So I think there's a there's a balance level that we've we've learned and even just growing as you know men and women or just humans and you know but then especially as husband and wife I think that there was a misrespect that we gained for each other. And I love how you respect me now. Like you like you make me feel like the you give me the ultimate respect whether I'm out or how you talk about me or even when you affirm me like you you find the ways that I need to see the respect that I think that I want. And so so I really are proud how you've learned me in that area because respect looks different to everybody else, right? And so what you found what makes me feel respected and I really appreciate how you've done that for me.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Oh good I'm I'm happy that you said that um and I think I think it's it's hard because you know when it comes to respect if you're in a a relationship that's very rocky and has a lot of turmoil it's kind of like the chicken and the egg right like giving respect makes that person feel more respected which in turn is going to make them be more respectful. Yeah and you know it's like that that love circle where it's like if I'm loving you then you'll love me and and it starts flowing round and round but when there's a kink in it when it stops then it's like okay you're not being respectful to me. So then I'm not going to be respectful for to you and and you can go tit for tat on that thing forever until you know the whole marriage implodes and you don't realize that when you're hurting the other person, you're really hurting yourself. Yeah. If you're supposed to both be in this thing together because you're so heavily connected when you're married. Especially if you have you know children, businesses, all the things that we had our finances, everything has been fully connected for you know the last uh 20 years that we've been married and you know me hurting you is you hurting me and you hurting me is me hurting you.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah. And we have a selfish view of that and you just think about yourself. You don't think about you're hurting other person and turn like said I hurt another person really hurt myself. And one thing you brought up too is kids, right? Like children watch us. They're literally looking at us and what example are we leaving for them? And I think that that's where it's been a big detriment I guess in this generation because this has one of been one of the heavier divorce rate generations just in this you know past couple decades. And I think that it's keeping people from wanting married or for children to want it because they see so much disrespect and you know separatism in the household right and I think that's we have to fight for that back because now this next generation is going to miss out on all the leadership and all the benefits that come with marriage.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Yeah besides just connection right there's something really special about having that person that has your back for life I mean in and out up and down sickness health you know all of that thing all of those things because you know your life goes through so many different cycles you know there's going to be you know we're not all always both going to be in good health we're not always both going to be you know young and vibrant and have all these things you know there's going to be seasons where I'm lacking and I need that support and there's seasons where you're going to be lacking and I'm available to give you that support. So always having that partnership is something that's incredibly special. It's unique and it's something that it's worth fighting for.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Absolutely. So all those things you said in the beginning about the longevity about the you know the skill sets you're going to take with you you know when it comes to your career that stuff starts in marriage right and we want to make sure that if we're doing those things in marriage and we're actually having success in it then that stuff should translate in other areas of our life.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Yeah for sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

And so no I'll actually you know start giving some application questions here so we can, you know, let's bring this home with some things that people can do practically at home. So you know what habits um have strengthened the connection in our marriage? What do you think some of the things that we were able to do?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

I mean I think some of the daily habits that that I feel like I'm starting to be more purposeful about now is noticing the good things you do and pointing them out. Cause I think a gratitude I mean gratitude is everything when it comes to professionally but then also at home you know the more that that you feel grateful for somebody and express that gratitude the more they're going to to to notice that they're um being valued you know and then they're going to value you in return. So I think a lot of um gratitude and noticing what is going right and then also refraining from focusing on what's not going right and um and then also acceptance you know there's certain things that that person just is not going to be good at right like I don't want to get a divorce because we can't figure out how to how to load the the washer you know like the the dishwasher the same way. You know, I mean really what is what what kind of excuse is that going to be you know what I mean? Or if there's like certain things that you're good at that I'm not, you know, that I never have to ask you about you know certain parts of like the finances or you know just some of the stuff that you're in charge of I don't even have to worry about certain things that aren't on my mind. And then there's certain parts of what I do that you don't even have to worry about. You don't have to ask about like oh who's you know doing this and who's doing that because it's already figured out and you know and God's blessed you with um a financial mind and you know just certain skills and then he's blessed me administratively there's anything in this house anything in any of our businesses that I can come rearrange organize put into place put a system um a structure in order and that's my gifting so we we have to always know what each other's giftings are and we need to make sure that we're not only showing the gratitude but then accepting each other for who we are. So accept the gifts but then also accept the flaws. And we can spend some time working on the flaws but there's certain flaws where we're just you know it it almost doesn't even make sense to spend that much time and energy if it's if it's not a battle that's worth fighting.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

You know so you have to pick you have to pick it I think that you know the what we spend our time giving gratitude to and spending our time doing that because you only there's only so much words and so much things you can do, right? So if I'm so used to giving gratitude outside the home and I don't do it in the home then there's going to be a lack of gratitude in the home which is going to be an empty bucket. But I'm closest to you so you should be getting the most gratitude. Should I still do it outside with my people yeah there's you we should be doing that too as well. But it never should be more than what you do to the person closest to you. And I think what happens there's complacency that comes in because you know when we're used to being with each other it's like oh that person's going to be there because they're supposed to be there versus like that person's here because they want to be here. Yeah and I'm grateful. Right. And so so the more great I I appreciate you saying how much you you you've given me because I I've noticed it I felt it over the years how much more of the small things you compliment me on you know and it does make me feel good. It does make me feel going a longer way in my and and like when I go outside of here because the world's tough right it's already tough enough. So when you come home to gratitude and someone that appreciates you that makes you go back out there and be even better you know and then I could be my best self to you because I'm coming home to a safe place. Right. And so I think that you know it's like putting money in those empty banks right in the in the in the piggy bank. If you don't put anything there when you try to get a deposit out ain't nothing gonna be there. Right. And so I've got to make sure that I'm putting deposits in the right bank when it comes to the gratitude and the things that we should be doing those small things and that build our connection yeah for sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

How can couples build a shared vision for life and leadership?

SPEAKER_01 30:31

That's a great question. I think that it starts with you know early communication I think when you do it earlier on then you have a better chance for success later because life starts happening and things start just going and it's like you know the the added if without a vision it's a scriptural without a vision the people perish right so if you don't have a vision for your marriage or your relationship where you want to go then it's not going to be successful because you're just kind of waking up trying to figure it out bringing it. Yeah right every day or just and and that we did in essence we kind of did that. You know we just you know we got into the marriage thing we loved each other right we knew that you know we had love and we thought that was that was going to be that that was the only ingredient that was missing. There was so much more that was needed than just you know love, right? Yeah and so there was patience kindness you know learning how to get through people's trauma and you know generalized anxiety trauma for my past all you know just so much stuff that was going to be thrown in there if we didn't do the things that needed to you know as far as you know hey we have to stop and figure out where we are what's going on what's happening with us and how do we get better what's the plan to get better what's the plan to to get to the place that we want to go right and I think that you know when we when we when we do this and communicate early with you on each other you have a better chance but even if you haven't stop where you're at you know like find a place where you guys can communicate and talk about what does a good life look like tomorrow? Where do we want to be in next year? Where do we want to be five years from now? Where do we want to be 10 years from now? Where do you want our kids in our relationship to be with them when they're out of school you know I mean like you have to start doing those things purposefully and when you start doing that you can start building things together because you know where you're going.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Yeah and I think it's really important not to um not to to spend so much time trying to recreate what you thought marriage was going to be but really just kind of look at it as a blank slate. Okay, you're this person from this background that has these experiences I'm you know this person, this background, these experiences, you know, but but putting our family aside putting our traditions our values like everything to the side for a moment and what is it that our shared dynamic needs to look like and you know we our marriage was I would say a lot more traditional as far as like our roles and the things that we that we happened um to do around our home and how we we raised our family but that just happened to be what your strengths were and what my strengths were you know and um but you know we've we've seen it work in all different ways you know we have a a couple that we're very very close to and you know the the husband does a lot more of the cleaning he's an amazing cook the wife she doesn't want to cook she she could cook if she wanted to but she does not like to and that's perfectly fine you know and they both help homeschool the kids and you know they just and and the wife is you know um the one that does the majority of the finances but that's how her brain functions and those are the things that come natural to her. Yeah and whereas you know so so they've figured out what works for their family yeah and that's perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

So it's not about highly capable people absolutely and either one of them could, you know, but just think about how much worse that would be if they were fighting over the traditional roles of what we think it's supposed to be or how their friends do it or somebody else do it. Because a lot of times that's where we get ourselves in trouble. We look at other people what they're doing and we aspire to that or we try and do it all ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

You know can you imagine in a company if you had the CFO that was also in charge of marketing and he's also in charge of this and that and this and that. It doesn't mean that you know these people have different value they you know we we all are needed we're all necessary we all bring something different to the table but we have to figure out where our highest and best uses are just like we do professionally absolutely we got to figure that out at home too and I think that you know that no doing that helps bring together that shared vision of where you want to go and be because there's an aim there's a there's a there's a rhythm there's consistency you know absolutely and and this kind of grows into this last question here.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

What helps couples grow together instead of growing apart?

SPEAKER_02 34:31

I mean I this is gonna be you know just kind of like a very practical answer but I mean I think fun, you know, I think being purposeful about you know we talked a lot about heavy things and and all of that but you know I mean think about why you you enjoy your best friend you know it's because you can always call them you can tell them all the stories you're gonna laugh you guys are gonna you know like make jokes on people that nobody else can know about you know you might just be able to say whatever you want to say with that person. And I think ultimately, you know, that's what I want out of my marriage is just somebody that um I can love that I can have fun with that we can laugh we can tell each other our secrets you know that we have that that safe space that nobody else really can be a part of you know what I mean? We got a lot of inside jokes.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Yeah we got a lot of a lot of funny inside stuff that only me and you can can enjoy and and and and deal with so um I mean again this has been a great great topic I think and you know I hope it's been uh a good one for you guys because I really believe that marriage does expose some things not only inside of you, but it also gives you these strengths and superpowers that you wouldn't have otherwise unless you actually did it. And when you can find a way to be successful in marriage I believe it translates to success in other areas of your life specifically professionally and leadership and whatever other purposes that God has for you to go and so well. So if you can stick it out in marriage and be there with the most personal relationship that you can have and do it well, then I think that any other relationship you can have really have success with. So before we leave we always want to leave you with a thought for you to just think about on your own. And today we just want to say what example of leadership and marriage relationship do you hope people see when they look at your life? So whether you're married or not just even think about you know when you do get married, if you aspire to be married, what do you hope that people see from that marriage relationship in you when they look at it right and so uh so you know think about that you know find out hey what are the areas that I can improve in because like Star said it doesn't matter where you've been like you can start with a blank state right now and say you know what I want to find success because it's critical because if it's the most important relationship is that person you're gonna spend the rest of your life with. So why not be successful at it and again get the benefits that come with it in the other areas of your life. So um with that said it's another episode of Love and Leadership. We appreciate your time and being here with us again and we always leave you the same way make sure you love love love well make sure you live with great purpose and steward what matters