Rebuild, Pivot, or Walk Away? How to Know When It's Time to Change

Every entrepreneur, leader, and spouse eventually faces the same defining question: do you rebuild, pivot, or walk away? In this episode of the Love and Leadership Podcast, Trent and Star Postell get honest about the moments that demand change and the wisdom it takes to make the right call.

From the cautionary tale of Blockbuster Video to the visionary reinvention of Steve Jobs at Apple, Trent and Star unpack why leaders hold on too long, how pride and identity keep us stuck, and what it actually looks like to exit gracefully versus being forced out. They also bring it home with real talk about marriage, parenting, and the spiritual discipline of making decisions rooted in faith rather than fear.

Whether you're navigating a business crossroads, a relationship season, or a personal pivot, this episode will help you lead with clarity and courage.

In this episode:
- Why Blockbuster failed and what every leader can learn from it
- The difference between rebuilding, refreshing, and walking away
- How pride and identity keep entrepreneurs stuck
- The role of fear vs. wisdom in decision-making
- Why marriage and business require the same forward-thinking mindset
- What it means to make God your authority, not your consultant

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What does it look like to love well at home and lead with purpose in the boardroom? Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast, where faith, family, marriage, and business come together to build leaders who last. Hosted by Trent and Star Postel. Love well, lead with purpose, steward what matters.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast. I'm Star and this is my co-host Trent. And we are entrepreneurs and uh just navigating through our journey of parenthood, marriage, and life. And for this episode, we are talking about rebuilding or walking away. So knowing when it's time to change.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Wow, that's hopefully going to be a really good episode, especially for our business leaders and entrepreneurs out there. Because this is a very key thing that all of our businesses have to come up against at one point. And so, you know, every situation is not meant to be sustained. At some point, we got to figure out, is this sustainable? Do we have to make some changes? Or is it time to walk away? And so the question I'm gonna ask the start is how do you know when it is time to walk away, or to keep pushing the grind button? So I want to start with a little story. And it involves a company that most of us know of, depending on the generation you're in, Blockbuster Video. Now, I remember it very key because of the fact that I was there every weekend with my family. We were getting videos, watching them, and it was great because at the time of the movies, guess what? You missed it, you missed it. But but the videotape, guess what? I can rewind as many times as I want. And even the DVD, right? And so it was revolutionary. They made a lot of money, they had a lot of stories all over the country, and it was something that was trendy and it was thought, you know, forward. And everybody loved Blockbuster video. But like any company that grows and gets big, there's gonna be some challenges. There's gonna be some things people start not liking about you. And that's when people come in as competitors and try to figure out maybe I can do something a little better. And there's one little company named Red Box. They come along and say, you know what? There's some things about Blockbuster that probably that people don't like, that maybe we can get a piece of their market. So they started popping up everywhere at grocery stores and a nice little machine where you can just go and get a red box for a dollar, which was way under the price at getting a DVD or VHS state from Blockbuster. And you know what they didn't do? They didn't charge late fees. Blockbuster Video made billions of dollars off of late fees, and we all hated that. We could be missed the time by maybe a minute or two or a day, and they would charge those late fees, and they were making a killing off of it. We didn't like that. Redbox was like, you know what? Let's let's do something different with that. Now here's a change. Blockbuster had the opportunity to say, you know what, these people are taking a little bit of our market share. Maybe we need to make some pivot and change and do something. And every single year, Redbox is getting bigger and a bigger share of what they were actually doing for us with Blockbuster with their customers. And rather than saying, you know what, we need to make some changes, they said, you know what, we're gonna keep the course. And I think that we can do it better because we're this big, bad blockbuster. And another little bitty company came in, you may have heard it before, Netflix. They came in and said, You know what, Blockbuster? We got a little piece of your market. We're sending videos to people in the mail, and they're loving it. No late fees, none of this. And Blockbuster said, Ah, we had a chance to buy you, but nah, we're not. We think that we got this, we'll figure this out. And before you know it, 2010 comes, and no longer this Blockbuster here. They filed bankruptcy and this company called Netflix. Again, we've probably heard of them a little bit. They're kind of dominating some of the trendy networks of how we see videos and movies and all that today. So, what's the point of this? Blockbuster video, a huge company had a choice. Should we sustain? Should we change? Should we pivot? Or is it time to walk away? And I don't think they made the choice that was right for any of it, because in the end, they filed bankruptcy. And how sad is that? A company of that magnitude that made that much money that affected so many people's lives is not even a thought of in today's society.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, definitely a very sobering story, especially for entrepreneurs and business owners. And um, like you said, I mean, they had all the resources. I'm sure they had the most brilliant minds. You know, they obviously at one point were the ones that were the innovators and the ones that were, you know, premier in their space. And somehow all of that just ended up slipping through their fingers. So, you know, and even as you mentioned with Netflix, you know, think about uh Netflix had an opportunity too to either keep what they were doing or to pivot as the digital space came and nobody was having to actually physically get a DVD anymore, you know, and they became a streaming network instead. So we all are confronted, you know, in the business realm with the realities of the market around us. Things change, things evolve, and you know, we have that opportunity to either evolve with the times or say stay stuck. So I think this is gonna be a good conversation today.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

Yeah. And it just goes to show that revenue is not everything, right? I mean, you can make a lot of money, but then if you don't exist next year, what was all the money for? You know, a few people got rich, and then a lot of people now had to change jobs and careers and try to figure out what they're gonna do, right? And so legacy is a big part of what a lot of us are in this for as entrepreneurs and businesses. We want to do something that changes the world, right? And so one of my favorite coats, and we're gonna talk about this company later, is what Steve Jobs gave an opportunity to somebody that he was hoping to, you know, bring onto his team. And he said, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

You want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life? And and I think he this person was the uh CEO of Pepsi at the time. So he tells him, you know, he has this good conversation with them, and he says, you know, do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life or do you want to come with me and change the world?

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Absolutely. And I just love that quote because I mean that's bold, right? That the CEO of Pepsi, right? And uh and to challenge him in that way because Pepsi's a pretty darn good company. Not like they don't know what they're doing, right? But Steve Jobs' mind and his mindset about change and doing what's next, and we're gonna talk about that later, yeah, is on another level. So, and he wanted people to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, for sure. Um, so I do have uh just a couple of little summaries here from a study. So the McKenzie study, it says around 70% of transformations fail due to the resistance of change. So I think that's a key point of what we're talking about today is change. And first of all, the decision of whether not to change, but then also you have to get the buy-in from everyone around you.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Absolutely. Because sometimes changing for the sake of change, that's not necessarily why you change. You have to change for a particular reason. It's got to be laid out, it's got to be clear, concise, and you have to understand how to sell it and bring people on board, especially if it's something that has been successful, or you have people that have been a part of something so long that they're comfortable where they're at. And so sometimes selling the change is a big challenge as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, for sure. Um, and then with the Harvard Business Review, um, their uh study showed that leaders who adapt quickly outperform those who resist the change. So, you know, again, a very important uh part of this too is to make the change when it's still time to make the change, you know? Because if you sit on it too long, then all of a sudden you become the thing of the past. And and now, you know, you no longer have that option. You know, it's too late, you're running out of time, you're running out of resource, and then the decision has to be made for you.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Absolutely. And good leaders too, we have to understand that we have to be forward thinking, we have to look at around us because sometimes we get stuck in the day-to-day and what's in front of us and the success we're having, that we don't even see the world is changing around us. And so by the time it is that you see the change coming, it's like, wow, that's already in the past. And so now we're losing out because we weren't forward-thinking enough to start making changes before the actual change was needed. And I think that's what happens when you have something very successful. People around you are always looking at how do I get an advantage over that person? How can we duplicate it and do it better? And there are people that are successful at that. And so sometimes because we're innovators, we the way we stay innovators is the thing that kept us there in the first place, doing something, uh agent of change, doing something that was the first or fourth thinking and not staying stuck in that, but continuing on that journey, even past the thing that you may have created in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah. So um, I guess my first question to you would be you know, why do you think leaders and entrepreneurs sometimes hold on too long?

SPEAKER_04 8:12

One, I really believe that pride is probably the biggest thing, right? A lot of times when we are successful at something, like we want to just make that thing just be the top-notch thing. It's gonna work, no worry about if it's ever gonna fail. Like we put so much into the success. And when it is successful, it's like, man, we've made that ultimate. And it's like, how do we just keep this going, going, right? And then when you have to change something, sometimes you may think that, oh man, what I did is not working anymore, or what I created is not good. It's not that, it's just sometimes that we got to make the changes necessary to stay relevant or to make something better. And I think a sense of pride can get in there, especially when you start something and it grows, then other people have to start coming in. And when other people come in, sometimes you don't feel like, well, it's still yours, right? And so when other people are making changes to something that you've done to make it better, if you're resisting that change because it's not what you originally saw for, it wasn't your original plan, then sometimes that can hold you back from the next level. Um, the hardest thing to do is to scale or to get something better because usually that involves other people. And so one thing I've learned in order for me to be better is I have to put really smart people around me to help make the changes and things to sustain what I already have going on. And then what that allows me to do is to do the thing that I feel is my biggest power is my brain, my mental uh and when it comes to things. So now I can think about the four things that need to change or need to happen if I have people sustaining the other things around me. And if they're making little changes that are bettering my company or bettering something, then I can go and figure out, hey, well, how do I make the whole better? And as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah. And I think even besides pride, another thing that makes entrepreneurs and business leaders hold on too long could be identity. You know, you your identity a lot of times can get wrapped up into that company or that organization that you started, and it almost becomes like a reflection of you. You don't know where you start, you know, where where where you end and where it starts. And um, and so when you're thinking about that and it's time to either pivot or change, you know, maybe it is time to walk away. Maybe, you know, the love and the drive and the passion that you had initially for it isn't quite there anymore. Yeah. Um, sometimes we struggle with that because it is part of us and and we remember the good old days and we remember what it took. Yeah. And so we're not ready to let that go yet. Um but we have to know when that time is and we have to move when it's time to move.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Yeah. So many people have a business plan and they have an entrance strategy, but nobody has an exit strategy, right? Yeah. And so that extra strategy can be many things. It can be, hey, when do I feel like uh I have the capacity to continue to do this, right? Because a lot of times we feel like entrepreneurs, we are just, we can just keep doing this forever. But as I get older now, and I'm like, man, like I don't have the same fervor and energy and abilities I had when I was in my 30s, right? Now I've got to use my mind so much more, and I don't want to continue to have to try to make my physical continue to be the thing that dominates. So what am I gonna have to do to maybe sometimes, you know, get a little, I get out of something a little bit faster than when I first got into something. And so uh, and then sometimes the extra strategy is like, hey, am I gonna sell this business off one day or am I gonna give it to somebody that can take it to the next place, right? Those are all things we should be thinking about because at some point all things, good things come to an end, right? And so if you but if you want something to be lasting beyond you, well, you have to be willing to see changes in that thing because the world changes, generations change, and what you gave somebody at one point is not gonna be the same that's gonna sustain the next generation later on as you continue on.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah, for sure. And you know, of course, we're talking business right now, but I also thought about our family situations and children. And, you know, you can't parent a, you know, a 17 or 18-year-old the same way you you parent a seven or eight-year-old child because those kids are getting ready to leave your home. So, what do you have to do in each season of their life to pivot, to shift, to change how you parent them so that when it's time for them to go out on their own, they're actually ready for it. And I know that that's an issue in our country right now is that, you know, there's a lot more young adults that don't feel ready. You know, they're they're not, they don't feel ready to really like get their wings and fly and get out of the nest uh when it when, you know, in that that typical time frame because they haven't fully been equipped, you know. We're we we want to shelter our babies, we want to hold them tight, we want to give them everything, but we need to make sure we're not giving them too much to where it's a detriment and we're not teaching them how to how to be able to get some things for themselves.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Absolutely. And and even to take that to another level, marriage, right? Like if you keep your marriage the same as it was when you're one, two, three, four, five, and expect that's what your 10, 20 is gonna look like, man, that's not gonna be a good marriage because you change as people, you evolve, your marriage should be evolving as well, right? And so sometimes people get stuck in places and they don't know how to get out of that next place. They don't know how to pivot or rebuild that thing. And so what happens is then sometimes you're forced out and you don't want to. And that's where the big D word comes into place because there is no evolution, there is no change, and people want to stay the same as when they first got married. And that's not sustainable either because life happens, children, you know, different seasons, like you say, and you have to adapt with those times, and your marriage has to learn to do that too as well. So, so anything in life I feel this really applies to, but particularly in business that we're talking about, you know, the lifeline of a business is innovation, especially in today's age of technology and those things. We got to be innovative in understanding how to connect with our customers and to make their experiences even better as we continue on. Um, I actually have one as we try to start talking into like decision making and things. Um, you know, what are or what does it look like to walk away from something the right way, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yeah, that's a good question. So um there's this this quote in Batman, uh I think it's the dark night movie, but you know, he says, either uh you'll die, either you die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain. Wow. That's such a true statement, you know? And I think about that as we're talking about entrepreneurship and you know, business leadership and staying in in that position while you're you're fit for it. Because sometimes we're we're no longer fit, we're no longer um really at our peak and our game when it comes to the certain skills that are needed in that position. And so we need to be able to know when it's time to walk away. And um, and I think about um a lot of times too, it's you know, when you get to the place where you feel like something's so easy, you can do it with your eyes closed. You know, you you just, I don't know, you stay there, right? Like you're you're an autopilot, you're you're able to just coast along. And um, and then I think also there's times when we feel like we're the only one that can do it or we're the one that then knows how to do it best. But especially as you mentioned, when it's time to scale, you know, maybe it's maybe it's not time for you to get out of your position, but it's really time to welcome more people in so that they can help you, so that they can assist you. Because if you want to grow, if you want to get to your next level, or if you want to take your organization to its next level, you can't, things should not look the same, you know, a decade later, two decades later. Something has to change. It has to pivot, it has to uh grow and evolve. You know, if you think about one of the the key ways we know something is alive is growth, right? Absolutely, yes. You know, we're living, we're breathing, we're changing constantly. And we want um our organizations to to do that as well. We want our marriages to do that as well. We want our families to thrive and to grow and to succeed onto their next level.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Absolutely. And I think that's what we all want is growth and and success, right? And anything that we do, because but anything you, you know, are working hard for, it's gonna take that effort to get to that success. And so uh so and sometimes that's how we measure our level of success. Now, hopefully that's not the only thing, growth, right? But you know, usually if somebody is successful at something, more people want to be a part of it, right? Or more customers are gonna want your product, or more people want to want to work for you, or more people want to use your service. So there's got to be some type of sustainability of growth, like you said, to measure are what you're doing or is what you're doing working.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah. And I think, um, so I think circling back to to what you were asking about, you know, like when do we know what the right time is to walk away? You know, the the best time, in my opinion, to walk away is when you are still on the mountaintop, you know, like you want to be able to bow out gracefully, you know, you don't want to be um like kicked, kicked out and pushed out because, you know, everyone around you is is able to see and you're the only one like still stuck in the past. And yeah, hey, we did it this way in my day, and like, hey, it's not your day anymore. Yeah, you know, like the world has changed, it's evolved, it's shifted. Um, and so we want to a lot of times the the best entrepreneurs, uh, you'll see that they have had multiple businesses. So they've created this thing, it grew when it got to a certain place, you know, they sold it. And then they use those funds to start another business and then another. And um, I even think about, you know, in our experience, one of um our major partners that we have in the restaurant uh space, you know, they were involved in the mortgage industry years prior. And then all of a sudden, you know, that that that wasn't what was profitable anymore. The the times had changed and shifted, and you know, mortgage uh industry wasn't doing well. Yeah. And they they had choices. And they sold before it was. And they actually sold before exactly. Whereas there's a lot of other mortgage companies, they just kept doing what they were doing for as long as they could and they filed for bankruptcy and they were, you know, they were forced out and and um they had probably no backup plan. So that was it. It was just the end. But, you know, the company um that that you actually worked for and and was involved with, you know, one, you were able to formulate that relationship that worked for us later on when um when we we uh went into the restaurant space, but also, you know, with that particular company, they they learned how to pivot and they learned how to shift and move forward.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah, and I think about that, they there was multiple people like-minded too as well that make those decisions. A lot of times, what happens when you get success and you bring people along with you, they get comfortable in that success. And then nobody is then making the mindset shift or saying, hey, we need to make some changes, right? Because you're being comfortable with the success. Like you say, you're on the mountaintop, everybody else is happy with being at the mountaintop, and nobody wants to ruffle the weather, you know, the the waters a little bit if you ruffle the feathers, you know? And so sometimes it's like, man, we're all comfortable, let's just keep here. And the thing is, if you're not outward looking, which we're gonna talk about a little bit, if you're not forward thinking, then if no one's looking at the future or what changes need to happen to stay on the mountaintop, all of a sudden you're gonna fall off real fast. And it could happen just like this, you know, and you don't realize it. And you see, man, I thought that company was doing so well. What happened? And all of a sudden nobody knew the quarter before they had their worst profits, and then all of a sudden it just tanked the next year, and now they had to sell out gracefully, right? Or ungracefully as you can. Yeah, ungracefully. Um, yes, there's a lot of things that need to happen to be able to make those decisions. And I think people around you, you got to have a strong network of people that are that are four thing and like-minded or can help make those decisions so that you're not all just kind of stuck in the same place and then the bad thing happens in the end.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, and um in Proverbs, it says, you know, in the multitude of counsel, there's wisdom. Wisdom, absolutely. And so we want to make sure that those people that are around us in our space that are advising us on what to do, especially with these big pivotal turns, are people that we can trust, are people that have wisdom, people that have built something themselves, and um that we can, you know, that we can really listen to their advice. And it's something that um not only makes sense in general, but makes sense for us. You know, we want people that really understand what it is that we need in that season and what is best for the organization.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Yeah, I mean, there's a simple old adage that says, if you want to be successful, find someone successful and do what that successful person does, right? And so, but that's up to us to go find that person. So when whatever stage you're in, find someone that's been where you're at and going to where you want to go so that when these things come up, you have someone, a resource or somebody you've seen be able to do something at that type of scale. You know, we've been blessed to have people like that in our own life. And that's allowed for us when we got to the place of, like I said, we've created businesses, we've sold businesses now, and also we're continuing to create multiple businesses, other arenas, but that we only can sustain that by figuring out, hey, how can we be successful? And just doing the model of what other successful people have done and those mentors in our life, that's how we've been able to sustain those things.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah. Um, so we we touched a little bit on walking away. Um, so I have a question for you. And, you know, what are signs that something needs to be rebuilt uh instead of just maintained? So, you know, we we can walk away, we can continue to do things, you know, as as usual and maintain what the success we built, or we can pivot and rebuild without giving it all up. So, you know, when do you feel like like that it's time to see that that's the solution?

SPEAKER_04 20:54

Yeah. I think first you have to have someone that's being very observational, right? Um, someone that can see, like I said, being forward-thinking and seeing things ahead of time before they happen. Um, and then someone that also can also make fast and transition to as well. Cause sometimes it may be quick. You have to make a quick decision, like, hey, let's formulate, let's get in the huddle, let's get a team, let's get a plan together, let's go. Some people that that might freak them out. They can't do that. So they just stay along the course until they can figure that out. But I think the forward-thinking people that can uh anticipate when change needs to happen, when something is going to, hey, you know what? I think we need to change this before something happens. And I want to kind of get into someone that I really uh admire as I've learned their story over the years, Steve Jobs. You know, all of us know a lot of things about him when it comes to Apple and those things. But, you know, Steve Jobs was not always as the big success that he is. He's had a lot of failures that he's had too as well. And a lot of times people we see it as failures, but he wouldn't say they were failures, right? Sometimes the people around him just didn't understand who he was and his thinking.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

And so And sometimes the you know, we talked about like we need to know what season we're in, we need to know what what atmosphere and like what the culture is around. Us to know if if what we have to bring is going to work. But sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes we have something that is a great idea, but it's just not the right season for it. Like the world is not ready for it yet. Absolutely, right.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

And so Steve Jobs was very smart. And as we know, he had Apple computers and you know, he built something that was really great with that company. And as he built it, it started scaling and he had uh a company and investors and the board. And there's a lot of competition out there during that in that age of the computer. You had IBM and other people coming out with things. And so his thinking of how he wanted to create that machine was just revolutionary and different, you know, and it was for different thinkers. And so many people didn't understand that at that space. So the people that wanted the more simple thing, which is IBM and those other computers out there, they dominated the space. And the people under Apple were just kind of like, wait a minute, you know, our sales are not as good as theirs. We must be not successful. And Steve was like, that doesn't measure success, you know. But at the end of the day, it's about the bottom line. So as you know, he was uh, you know, left a CEO. Um, but like you said, entrepreneurs and people that are very smart, they do more than one thing. He went over to do Pixar and some other things that were amazing. And then as Apple was starting to really struggle, they're like, hey, Steve, come on back. Let's go back to what we know. Let's go back to the website. We need some more innovation. We need some, we need some stuff that really can help us. And so at the time when Steve Jobs came back, you know, his mind was set on something different. It was the age of the obviously the cell phone started coming out and different things. And he was like, Look, the computer can do so many things, right? But we're now on these small devices. We need to before thinking and figure out how do we get our devices and our computers to sync up, right? Let's put a let's put everything in their hand, right? And so he started with the iPod, which everyone thought you know thought was crazy, all this music on one little spot, right? Who that's not gonna rewrite. And then what happens, right? Then it goes to the iPhone, right? And people were like, What? That's who's gonna do that? There's no numbers on this thing. There's like how the text, what what is this, right? And everything he thought of was forward thinking. Yeah, and then he started being the trend, and everyone was now catching up to him. He started doing his little talks and unveiling the products, and everybody was like, Oh my God, what is he doing next, right? And if you think about Apple today, even though iPhone is their the premier product we think about, they're in all types of things, AI and different things that are forward thinking way ahead of time, because that was Steve Jobs' way of doing things. And so he was able to infect the culture of his company at that point in time. So it didn't stay a blockbuster where he just said, you know what, we're gonna do this and this is where we're gonna be until we die. But Steve Jobs, like, no, we need to be forward thinking and innovative because if we can continue to be in front of the market, if we can continue to be the first and be out there, then our name, which is great already, can continue to dominate because they're always gonna expect excellence from us. If the Apple makes shoes right now, guess what? People go get them Apple shoes. Why? Because they feel there's gonna be something excellent about it, right? And so uh so they have a brand that is known for that. And the only way they can continue that is by continuing to meet expectations. And and when you start expectations, you better basic believe people are gonna want to have to continue those things or you're gonna quickly, you know, not be what you used to be.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, that's good. Um, and I think another area when we talk about rebuilding, um, we can touch on is relationships, you know? Because yeah, um, there's some relationships where you've you've made a real commitment. Like you said you're gonna be there. So that's uh not gonna be, you know, a place where we would encourage you to just say, okay, it's not working time to get out, you know. So you really need to know like what is the investment that you have committed to. And I think, you know, for us in our marriage, there's been many seasons where we might have thought, like, oh man, it would just be, it would just be easier to to go my own path because, you know, I have to wait for this person. Like, I have to, you know, like having to sync up with somebody in the thoughts and the direction and you know, like what where you're going in your life can be a very frustrating thing because we're all growing and developing at different levels. And especially us, you know, our journey is unique that we got together as teenagers. You know, we were 18 and 19 when we met, and then in our very early 20s, we got married right out of college. And um, so we were not full individuals and and uh you know, we we we didn't even really fully know how to adult yet, but we were entering into a commitment. Yeah, we were we committed to something where honestly we didn't know what we were committing to, you know. We're like, hey, yeah, I'm gonna be with you till till we die. Um, but who knew what what that would look like from you know the 20-year-old space to, you know, I don't know, 80, 90 years old or whenever we leave this earth, you know, like we we honestly didn't have a clue what we were committing to. And I think in situations like that, you know, the rebuilding needs to really be your first priority. So we can't just maintain and leave it the same way if it's not working.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

But we also can't just, you know, our first thought should not be just to throw it out and and move on, you know, because a lot of times when we're struggling with relational issues, it's it's both people that, you know, may need to do some work and some adjusting, you know? And um, so we need to ask ourselves like, what can I change? You know, not just look at what does the other person need to change, but you know, like, how do I need to grow in this scenario?

SPEAKER_04 27:10

And before we pivot to the next place on this, I want to go base more deeper what you just said, you know, the rebuilding of something. What if we refreshed it first so we didn't have to rebuild, right? If we refresh something and keep it nice and keep it up to take, I think about, you know, just you know, when we're when people remodel things, and you know, a lot of times the easiest thing is like, oh, let's just freaking get another house, right? Well, you know, what do you got to do? You got to pay more money for it, yeah, rebuild memories.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

And then the economy's different by the time you do that. So now you might get a higher interest.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

And so the investment you put into that initial thing now is like not as valuable as when you put that initial investment in the first thing, right? So sometimes working on that and keeping it fresh, keeping it alive, you know, doing the things you need to do to make sure that that initial house is what it wants to be, what that initial relationship is, you know, keeping it refreshed and keeping it lively, being forward-thinking, right? Yeah, knowing that seasons are gonna change, right? If you know seasons change, what do you prepare for in the winter? Guess what? I get my winter stuff out, right? If you never pull out your winter coats, you're gonna go outside cold every single day, right? So if you already know the seasons are gonna change and something is gonna happen and change, be ready for the change, right? And do the things it takes to remodel versus I I gotta go start and build all over again. Because rebuilding is a lot of work. Now, is it still worth it? Yeah, because at the end of the day, the whole thing is about sustainability and making sure that the initial foundation that we built never goes away, right? The initial business we created, that's not gonna go away. Yeah, but we don't want to always have to rebuild because that takes a lot more work and a lot more effort. If we can keep it fresh and be able to keep doing the renovation work that needs to happen throughout something, then you can have a longer sustaining business, you have a longer sustaining relationship, right? And then the thinking of that is like, man, this is already nice. What can we do to make it nicer?

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

Versus like, man, this is trash. We gotta, we gotta start all over again, right? And so, uh, and so either way, you just have to figure out which one of those you want, and whatever you focus on is what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, that's good. Whatever you focus on is what you're gonna get. You know, right? That that's what's gonna grow, whatever you're feeding into.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

And so the next question as we go into this and and ask and put an aspect of leadership and faith to this conversation, you know, how do you separate fear from wisdom when making these type of decisions? When it, you know, to pivot or to to leave?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Um, so uh for me, you know, I I've mentioned before that, you know, I've had a lot of uh struggles with anxiety. So I think sometimes, you know, like I get that knot in the pit of my stomach when something is not right, but sometimes I just get that not when something is changing. Because I, you know, change for me triggers a lot of um anxiety as well. So when that feeling comes, you know, I it used to kind of shut me down and just say, oh my goodness, this is like I want nothing to do with this thing. But sometimes it it's not necessarily that what you should be thinking, you know. Your your body, your nervous system is just sort of like, wait a minute, whoa, this is different. You know, like give me a minute. I don't know what's going on here.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

And so we also have to just like look into ourselves and give ourselves what we need in order to be able to make that best decision.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

So for me, a lot of times it's time. I need time to process, I need time to think. So if you come at me with this crazy idea, like I'm gonna look at you like a deer in a headlight and I'm just gonna shut down.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

But, you know, if you give me time to really think on it, pray on it, maybe do a little research, sleep on it, you know, like I'll be able to come up with um my, you know, like my piece of what I need and maybe my the questions that I would have. Okay, you want to do this big crazy thing, you know, have we thought about this, this, this, you know, like have we talked to our mentors? Have we looked at the finances? You know, like have we uh projected out and looked out, okay, what what is the next five years looking like with this commitment or the next 10 years?

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

So I think for me, and then we're very different when it comes to, you know, like how we operate, you know, you love big, you love different, you love creativity, you know, you love um something that's never been done. And then, you know, I'm always thinking about, well, like maybe it's never been done because it shouldn't have been done. Maybe it's just not a good idea at all. So we also have to both like give each other the space we need. Absolutely. You know, like I have to honor your creativity and your big ideas. And, you know, I have to honor the fact that like if if it was up to me, we'd probably never change and pivot. And that would be very bad as well. So, like, we have to always learn how to work together with our team to make sure that we're, you know, like we're we're doing what's needed for for our home, for our company, for our relationships, and um, and we're moving forward together, you know.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Absolutely. And so it's a balance in there, right? And so, like you said, it you got to take some time, right? But don't let time cripple you where you never make the decision because it's like I need more time.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Or you make the decision too late.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

You make it too late, right? And so, but also too, you don't make decisions in haste because of excitement or because oh my God, if we don't do it now, it's never gonna happen. So, one of the scriptures in in 1 Timothy talks about, hey, God's not giving us a spirit of fear, right? But one of power, love, and a sound mind, right? And so that that sound mind is the making that wise decision, making the one that's timely in the right time. And so uh, so when we don't fear and we don't make things out of fear, it gives us an opportunity to make it out of the right place, which is one that's a sound mind and somebody that's stable and something that's sustainable and that you've had thought about. And so I think that's where our balance has gone, where like I said, the excitement has been tamed a little bit, but your slowfulness of making decisions because like I don't know if we should do that because of the fear, have come and we've met in the middle to where it's now balanced where it should be. And I think that's a good thing. And I think all companies, all families, all marriages need that sustainable balance. You know, we're both because we're all different, right? And so when you have two people that are all the way over here, guess what? That's not always great because somebody has to be able to come over here and be like, hey, what about this over here? And so, and then vice versa, depending on the uh side of the spectrum that you're on on that.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, and I think about some specific tangible examples, like in our travels, you know, a lot of times you'll plan things of like places we've never been, things we're eating that we've never, you know, eaten before, or you know, I also have a fear of heights. So there's all these things that you're like, you know, I remember when we did the uh helicopter ride in Hawaii, that would not have been something I would have chosen to do, but you know, you planned it anyway, and like, hey, surprise, we're gonna do this. And it was terrifying, but it was also amazing, yeah, you know, and just to be able to have that memory and and the beauty and you know, just the things that we can experience when we come out of our comfort zone. But then there's also been times, you know, I remember that time when there was a vehicle that you wanted to buy, and you know, like the guy, the dealership. And of course, we were younger then, so you know, we didn't have as much experience, but you know, the guy was like pumping you up. This is your perfect car. And, you know, the interest rate just wasn't where I felt comfortable. And on the one hand, I was just like, gosh, I just need to let him do it because I don't want to deal with him being upset with me of being disappointed. But then on the other hand, you know, I respectfully voiced my concerns. And even though you were a little salty and, you know, probably mad and didn't talk to me that night, you know, the dealership called you the next day and was like, look, we're gonna cut it to this amount. Like, we really need your business. And then it was win-win. You got the car that you wanted, but you got at the interest rates that I felt comfortable with.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Because the thing about if I would have made a decision without your happiness, that would have lasted much longer. Because every time you saw that car, you'd been like, that man, I would have been salty every time I saw the car. So I'll take a little saltiness for that moment. But the wisdom in me at that point in time, because I had to grow to that. You know, I'm very impulsive, especially when I was younger and just making a decision I want because I want it now, and that's how it's gonna be. But then honoring you and your thoughts and that balance that I know I need, like, hey, maybe she's right. Maybe that interest rate is a little high. I just wanted that car really bad. And you're like, hey, if it gets cut, that means it's meant for you. If they'll call you back, like, don't be out there so hasty. They they want to sell you this car, but they'll call you back. And if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. And because I honor that, I think that God made that a moment for us to remember. Yeah. So we were able to kind of build on that for future decisions, you know. And that's kind of how we base all our decisions now. Like, you know, when we both make it, we bring our thoughts to the table and we are able to agree, even if it's agree to disagree sometimes. But in the end, we're respectful enough to be able to say, hey, this is what I bring to the table. It's what you bring. Let's make a decision based off that now.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah, for sure. And I think also it's always really important to ask, like, what the bigger picture is, like, what's what's the merit meta-narrative, you know, like what's the story within the story? And for us, like you said, maybe it wasn't even about the car. I don't even honestly, I don't remember which car it was or what it looked like at this point.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

That's suburban show.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Because that was a long, long time ago, many years ago. But I remember that that was an opportunity, you know, because before that, we would we would really get into a lot of arguments about decision making. You know, there was like your taste versus my taste, two different things. I'm very thrifty by nature, you know. I kind of my family grew up in poverty and not only in poverty, but we we like shunned wanting materialistic things, you know. We we grew up in a religious organization and you know, we were all about like, oh, that's the things of this world, you know? So it was almost like a mindset that I had to overcome where it's okay to have nice things. Like God does not want all his children to just be dirt poor, you know. Like we we should have something that other people like also can say, wow, that's that's a good life, you know. You know, the Bible talks about like, you know, if you if you yourself want to give good gifts to your kids, you know, imagine how much more your heavenly father wants to give them to you. So, but anyways, um, but yeah, so I feel like even in those seasons, the lessons we were learning along the way, the negotiation we were having to experience as a young couple really benefited us later in life as a couple and then also as business partners.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

Yeah, and that's that's an essence of like I said, we're talking about how do we learn to rebuild, rebrand, pivot. Like when you have that dialogue, you can take off to somebody to get about it, you get better at it, and then you have somebody with you in these decisions. But when you're making these decisions by yourself, a lot of times you can make the wrong decisions or people that are just like you. The board of Blockbuster, again, I'm sorry to keep bringing you up, but you did five bang up to you right.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

So uh but yeah, we blockbuster a lot now.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

It's nothing personal, we're just using you for the podcast story, right? But uh, but yeah, just that you when you don't make decisions, the right decision or people around you, you know, that, or listen to that one voice that might be in the room, it's like, hey, I'm over here, probably listen to me, right? But everybody else, like, nah, we're gonna do it our own way. And then you don't get that balance that you need sometimes, and you can miss out on something very, very, you know, good in the future. And it could be a very expensive one too, also.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Yeah. So as we wrap up here, you know, like what do you feel like it means to trust God um when you're trying to make those decisions, you know, staying, letting it go, or just maintaining for a while longer.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

Yeah. I think um actually I heard this not too long ago. Um, but you know, and it really challenged me um about how God's role is in our life. And for me, you know, of course, you know, we're not shy about our faith and saying that God is our as our father, you know, and he's the one that controls everything we do. We love him, we believe in Jesus. And and and but a lot of times, you know, when you live life and you have success or you're doing things, a lot of times you just you do things out of just routine, out of your gifting. And a lot of times you can make a decision. And then after you've made a decision, it's like, oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Now we ask for help.

SPEAKER_04 38:24

What do you think about this, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

And I was challenged by the person that says, when we make a decision like that, where we make a decision and ask God about it after the fact, he's now a consultant and not an authority.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

And so, like, yeah, I want to make sure that he's my authority in my life. So I need to go to him first. When I have an idea of something, it's almost like you like, hey, like when I wanted to buy that car, I've got to do that with you. I can't buy the car, then bring it home, which I've done, right? Or almost bought a car and brought it home. Look, that's a whole nother story. Right. So I didn't buy it, but I brought it home to make sure she was gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Look, 25 years.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

But it's but instead, like it's like, hey, we bring you alongside of this with me so that we make the best decision, right? Yes. That's the authority you have in my life as my wife, as my you know, co-partner. And God needs to be that in our life, you know. God needs to be that co-author of our life and say, hey, like, God, what do you think about this? Should I do this? Like, give me, you know, your thoughts on it, right? Sometimes we wait, God, give me a sign, right? And that could be that too as well. But, you know, I feel like I've I've gained this close relationship with him, you know, through my prayer time and meditation, or even just reading his word. Like I get confirmations or in that meditation time where he'll give me visions and give me dreams or things that I want to do next. And a lot of times when it comes from a place of that, I know, man, that was inspired by him. And so that was a decision I know that he I was along with him on. But there's been some things where like I just got going. I was like, Oh, that's a good idea, and just went, went, went. And I was like, wait a minute, God, what do you think about this? And then because we've already made that decision and we're invested in that thought process, we will just hear God's whether he say yes or no, we'll just say, God, he'll co-sign on it. Or we'll just say something like, um, well, he'll forgive me, he'll forgive me, or you know what, we'll see as it goes. If it's successful, he's gonna bless it. And it's like sometimes that's could be the trick of the enemy. Like, every good thing is not a god thing, right? Everything that is successful is not maybe.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

And the more you have, I feel like the more opportunities are presented to you. And so I that's conversations that we've had as we've continued to grow in in this uh business space, is you know, like, hey, we just need to know up front that there's gonna be even more opportunities the more we're putting ourselves out there, but we don't have to take every single one. We need to be, if anything, this should allow us to be more exclusive and selective in our decision making.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Absolutely. And I've I've said this, I've had to make this prayer on my own, and I really mean it. I stand by it. I said, God, please, even when I don't consult you up front, I'm trying not to, just it's life, I'm human. But God, open the doors that need to be open and shut the ones that need to be shut. Because I feel like if we're able to do that, if we'll be okay with what happens and say, you know what, God's looking out, then I have to be a piece of whatever happens though, that that was God's will for whatever was supposed to happen. So and so far we've been doing pretty good with that, you know. And so we've got a little way to go with some things as we continue to grow and expand to some other things. But even this podcast, right? This was like one of those things that we had to say, hey God, this is what you want to do. And you know, I know it was a God thing, because we were like, ah man, should we do this, should we not? But we put ourselves out there and said, because we knew this obedience to God and just putting ourselves out there to to help people that, you know, maybe need this information of the life that we've lived to this point in time, you know. And so we this was a good God thing. This was obedience of to being of Him and one of the decisions we've made to honor Him when it comes to how do we continue to make decisions on starting something new to build, or when it's time to let something go. So this was definitely a building thing that God put in our life to be able to do and share with others.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah, and it is an opportunity, obviously, for us to speak about our faith. And, you know, we we literally cannot tell of our, you know, business and our um, you know, our wins without telling people about our faith because it's like it's fine. Yeah, it's it's it's because of our faith that we have experienced this success in our marriage, in our life, and in our business that we have. But um so as we wrap up, um, we have some questions for the the viewers and the listeners to really like ponder on and and think about their own life. Um, the first one here, where is your life, where in your life are you holding out on fear instead of for purpose? So something to think about for sure.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

Absolutely. Uh the next one is what situation might require adjustment instead of more effort? You know, sometimes, you know, we may think like, oh, we got to grind, grind, grind. And it could be just a simple decision, right? So we got to go back to the drawing board and just reevaluate everything we're doing to see how that change needs to be so we can make the proper decision.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Yeah. Um, and lastly, what would it look like to make a decision rooted in clarity and faith? Wow.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

If we made every decision like that, we'd be doing some. Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

We would have avoided a lot of it, absolutely right. We're doing all right, but we've we've been basically sure.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

Right. And so, and and hopefully this podcast is helping to bring some clarity to you. Uh, if you haven't subscribed, by the way, make sure you subscribe at Love and Lead Pod here right here on YouTube. We're on all the other uh Apple and Spotify and those things too as well. Uh, visit us on our Instagram page and also on our Facebook page. And we want to continue to connect with you so that we can continue to bring the things that have been God's wisdom in our life and clarity that we've been able to do. We've had a little bit of success, you know. And so we want to make sure we share that with you guys and also the wisdom and also the things that other people have told us and also tell you those things that we didn't do so well, so that you could avoid some of those pitfalls as well. And so, um, but hopefully you enjoyed this episode. Again, you know, we got to know when it's time to pivot, when it's time to preserve, or then you know what? Sometimes we gotta let things go, right? Yeah. And all those decisions are hard, but then today it's got everything to do with your future and making the right decision. So join us for another episode of the Love and Leadership Pod. Again, this is my beautiful wife star, my co-host, my partner, and everything. And we hope you enjoyed this episode. But always remember to make sure you love well, lead with purpose, and steward what matters.