Why Ownership Thinking Fails Leaders (And What to Do Instead)

Most leaders are taught to take ownership. But what if that mindset is quietly holding you, your team, and your organization back? In this episode of the Love and Leadership Podcast, Trent and Star Postell unpack the crucial difference between owning and stewarding, and why the shift from one to the other transforms how you lead people at work, at home, and in every relationship that matters.

They open up honestly about the seasons when they operated from control instead of care, and what it cost them as leaders, parents, and spouses. You will hear the parable of the talents come alive in a real conversation about faith, responsibility, and what it looks like to be entrusted with people, not just tasks.

If you have ever felt burned out from trying to manage everything yourself, or noticed the people around you are not growing the way you hoped, this episode will challenge you to examine the lens through which you lead.

Topics covered in this episode:

  - Why control-based leadership produces fear instead of trust

  - How stewardship creates a fertile ground for team growth

  - The parable of the talents and its leadership application

  - What parenting taught Trent and Star about letting go of ownership

  - Practical reflection questions to shift from possession to purpose

Subscribe to the Love and Leadership Podcast: @LoveandLeadPod

Find us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.

Hashtags: #LoveAndLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #StewardshipMindset #FaithAndBusiness #MarriageAndEntrepreneurship #ChristianLeadership #PodcastForLeaders 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What does it look like to love well at home and lead with purpose in the boardroom? Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast, where faith, family, marriage, and business come together to build leaders who last. Hosted by Trent and Star Postel. Love well, lead with purpose, steward what matters.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Welcome to the Love and Leadership Podcast. I'm Star, and this is my co-host Trent, and uh my husband, business partner, all of the above. And today we're gonna be talking about why ownership thinking fails leaders.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So, contrary to belief, most of the time we have this mindset that man, I gotta take something as a leader and make it my own and run it like I'm the owner. Well, honestly, that's not the mentality you should have. When leading something, you really should take the mindset of being a steward. What does that mean? So we're gonna talk a little about that. And so I'm gonna pose this question what changes when you stop seeing leadership as ownership and start seeing it as stewardship? So today we're gonna explore how stewarding people and opportunities work well and influence transforms the way we actually lead people.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Okay, that's good. So as we dive in here, um studies show that servant leadership models increase engagement and retention. Um, control-based leadership reduces the trust and performance over time. And people first leadership drives stronger long-term success.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, and I think that all is true, especially that whole point where it says an actual control leadership style. Because a lot of times when people hear ownership, that's what the first thing you think of. Like, I'm the owner, I control everything, right? And that's not necessarily a bad thing, especially when everything is kind of on you. But also when you're responsible for people, it's more than ownership. You don't own people, right? People have free reign to do and to make decisions and they're thinkers, and so we can't really own people. And that's why we want to talk about stewardship, because everything we have to do when it comes to a business, especially leadership, deals with people, right? So there's certain aspects of a business we may have to take ownership of, right? Certain decisions and certain processes, but the people aspect, we definitely got to learn how to steward that.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah, for sure. And like you said, I think even just the word own ownership, it kind of puts you in a negative mind frame. Correct. And um, when I think of ownership, I think of mind, I think of, you know, like just sort of having control over something on my own. And um, we don't want that mentality. We want a mentality that's team first, it's about the group, it's about the vision, it's about the goal. And it's not just, you know, somebody that that's there to accomplish their own dreams and, you know, and and their own um uh what's the word I'm looking for? The, you know, like their own aspirations. Absolutely, yeah. But that it's for the betterment of all and that we can all, you know, head in this direction together and and take stewardship because you want to encourage that from everybody. And so if only the owner is the one that's you know looking out for the best interests, then that's all you're gonna have. But when you think about a stewardship mindset, that's something that you can teach, that's something that can be contagious, and hopefully, you know, it's something that will continue to grow throughout the organization.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Absolutely. And if you really think about it too, as well, the best owners, they don't even have that ownership mindset, right? They actually have a stewardship mindset because they understand the importance of involving everybody, right? Making in a team, making it about a group effort. And so, you know, owning a group is a lot harder than saying we're stewarding this thing together. And so I think that's a mindset shift that many leaders and even owners that we need to make sure we're doing to make sure that our businesses are thriving and that our teams are thriving at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah. Um, so when it comes to stewardship, why do you think that that leaders can naturally drift towards ownership instead of stewardship?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Um, I think it's real easy because one, when you again going back to that word ownership, it's kind of like mine. And you know, so when you're a leader, you obviously have a certain amount of responsibilities. And and then also two, it kind of just makes you feel good when you feel like you're in control, right? Uh A, B, C, and D, we're gonna do it this way, this way, this way. Exactly. I think that's the word. It is what's in the control. Like you, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

You feel like if if you're the one in control uh of the process, then you can control the outcomes.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

And that's a false sense of control.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yes, right. Because outcomes are really driven by the people that you're using and actually leading to as well. It's not just about you. And so uh, and so, like I said, that sense of just if I can control it and I'm the one responsible for the outcomes, I feel safe. I don't want to go outside that space. And really, when you don't go outside of that space, then you alienate yourself, right? And then a lot of times when you have to, when something goes wrong, when you take that mentality, then you actually have to own the results of it too as well. And so um, so when you steward things and you actually are able to give things away, it's a sense of like ownership of everybody. Everyone feels like they're a part of something. And then so when the results come, good or bad, then you all share in it. But when things go bad, when you have stewardship, then people don't look at you like, oh, your fault, bam, I'm not doing anything. A lot of times we'll be like, hey, how can we help to fix this or get this back on the on the rails like it should be? And so so having that team aspect helps you either way, whether things are going good or bad. And so, especially when it's going bad, you want to helpfully be able to spread that out so everybody can be a part of helping that.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah, and when I think of control too, um especially in an unhealthy sense, I think of fear, you know, a lot of times we want to control things, we want to make them the way we want them because we're afraid of potential outcomes, you know. So we we stick to what we know because we know that that, you know, or we think at least that that's gonna work and that maybe that's the only way we know how to make it work. But when we, you know, open up our minds to to feel like, hey, this is something we can all share in together, you know, yes, it might be uh a little bit, you know, scarier and maybe takes a little bit more vulnerability, but we also never know, you know, how far we could go because you don't know, you know, how much uh the input from everyone else is gonna contribute to a different type of outcome, maybe better than what you could have even thought.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Absolutely. And so, so I'll you know, going that along those lines, I'm gonna pose a question to you. Have you ever led from a place of control instead of care? And what did that produce for you?

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Um, yeah, I think I've been a completely different type of leader in different seasons. So I would say probably my first um uh five years of of really being in leadership, I was still in my 20s. You know, I I've been in leadership, I guess honestly, since I was in my teens. You know, the my very first leadership job was at uh Auntie Ann's Pretzels, and I was a key holder, which meant I was right underneath the assistant director. You know, I could open and close the store, I could make deposits. So um, you know, and obviously that was a lower level of responsibility. I didn't make the schedule. I just, you know, I kind of just was in charge of the day-to-day if the if the assistant manager wasn't there. But, you know, of course, being 15, you know, there's only so much that I knew how to do. I wasn't even thinking leadership. I wasn't even, you know, in that mindset. But as I continue to grow, you know, my 20s is when I became a childcare uh center director for the first time in my early 20s. And, you know, the the leader that I was back then versus the leader that I am now, you know, almost two decades later is completely different, you know? And I feel like when you're a younger leader, you're you're really more self-conscious about how you feel other people are perceiving you. So many of the people that I was leading were a lot older than me. And in my head, I was constantly thinking, oh, they may not do be doing this because they're not respecting me. You know, they're not respecting me enough because I'm younger than that.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

That's a key word. Everybody, we all want respect, especially as a leader, right? You don't want no one disrespecting your authority or disrespecting something you say. So you feel like you got to take respect sometimes, you know, when you feel like no one's already given you it to because when you're young.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah. And, you know, I had this professor that would always say, you know, there's the respect of the person and there's the respect of the position. If you have the former, you don't need the latter. Or no, I'm sorry, something like that. But anyway, so what she was saying is that, you know, if if people respect you as a person because they see that you're a woman of character, you're a woman that is assisting others even when you don't have to, or that you're leading by example, then you know, they're automatically going to reverence you, they're automatically going to respect you and listen to your voice. You don't have to throw your title around, you don't have to throw your weight around and say, you know, because I said so or I'm in charge. But, you know, anything that that um you're asking them to do, like they're gonna feel, you know, that sense of responsibility and respect enough to just want to do it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

And I think that, you know, it's it's a tough balance, you know. I mean, especially as a young leader trying to find your place because I mean, you hope that someone's gonna respect you because you when you put you in a position that, hey, there's a a chain of authority. Like I'm this, I'm responsible for making decisions, and you're supposed to follow, right? And we hope that people just will just follow because it's what they're supposed to do. But the reality is that doesn't happen. And so there's got to be a respect that's gained. There's got to be time, skin in the game. You know, people want to know what you know. And oh, if I know more than you, why are you leading me? Right. So there's all those things that you battle with just when it comes to just the position itself of trying to get someone to follow you. And it may be hard because when you're trying to say, hey, I want to steward something, and but you don't have the respect of people because they don't even know if they trust you yet, yeah, then that can be very difficult being in that in that space. And then now you have to fight for it more or you have to take that authority. And so it's a it's a fine line of taking versus then, okay, can I just be it and then let them lead uh by maybe lead by an example.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

So when I think of control too, you know, I even think about when we were, you know, raising a family and raising our kids and those time periods where our kids were in their teenage years, you know, and my daughter and I, we really bumped heads many times, you know, for that that those few years where she was growing into herself as a young lady. And, you know, when it when it comes to control, we just have to be careful that we don't get into those control battles because sometimes people will take it all the way. You know what I mean? Like you'll have those kids that will be just stubborn as I don't know what and they are not moving. So you have to be careful that you're not allowing yourself to get out of character and that you're not, you know, making idle threats, you know, or like you're not um saying that you're gonna do something, you know. Well, that's it. You're you're never coming out of your room again, you know, because that's not that's not really a threat that you could follow through with. And I think we have to be very mindful of our emotional state, even when it comes to being challenged as leaders, especially when you are a young leader or maybe a young mom, um, or you're parenting a child that's in an age group that you haven't parented before. So, you know, the uh being a mom of, you know, a child in their elementary years versus middle school versus high school is completely different sets of skills that you have to, you know, embody. And so if that's the first time you're parenting a teenager, there's certain things that come at you that you're not expecting, you know?

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

And so I feel like that was definitely a lesson I learned in parenting as well as in leadership in a professional sense is making sure you're not, you're not ready to go to the grave with it. You know what I mean? Like you're not like, hey, if you don't do this, then I'm doing X, Y, and Z. And then those are, you know, threats that they see over time that are empty. And, you know, and that that shows people that you're not the one in control if you're having to, you know, to threaten the the control that you do have, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Absolutely. And and I love that example you're bringing up as like a parent because, you know, even that, you know, we have our kids, they belong to us, right? They came from us, they're our seed. And so it's almost like, do we really own them, right? It's in the sense that we created them. So, but we don't really own them because at one point in their life, they're not going to be with us forever, right? And so there's a season and time of their life there with this. So actually, it's a stewardship position, right, as a parent. So we're teaching them and we're entrusted with their life, a gift of God to like, hey, get them to a place of adulthood, get them to a place where they can then take make decisions for themselves, then be able to then go off into their own world, make adult decisions. So I believe that, you know, that even goes to say that, you know, even the positions where when you create something as an owner or you are the one that did something, and then now you have employees or people you lead, that you don't really own them still, you know, because again, they may transition out one day. They and when people transition from you, you want them to be better from when they first came in. And so a lot of times when you have the mentality of stewardship, that's a place where growth can happen. When you have an ownership mentality, a lot of growth is stunted, you know. And then a lot of times people either leave because they don't feel like, hey, I got I gained anything. Like a lot of people, I think it's a uh there's a statistic that says 80% of people feel they would rather uh go to a place where they feel like they're getting growing, they're growing and they're getting the skills they need to get to that next place. And so uh so that's why people choose companies that have growth mindsets because that's the stewardship mentality. But when you feel like you're going somewhere and you're not really growing and it's I'm stuck somewhere, usually there's some type of ownership level that's stopping that leadership from going to that next place.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah. Um, when it comes to stewardship, you know, how do you feel like a stewardship mindset um helps you change in the way that you make decisions?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Um, I think the first thing you have to do is really understand stewardship. So I just I want to give it a practical definition. Uh it's the responsibility or management, oversight. And the key word for me is protection of something you're entrusted with in one's care. And so your responsibility is to take something and care for it, you know, and so when you care for it like it's your own and not necessarily say it's mine, then you you want to care for it delicately, right? You want to protect it from anything outside from harming it. Even you don't want to harm it, right? You want it to grow and you want it to be in a better position than when you first got it. And so I think understanding the mindset of stewardship and saying that, hey, I'm entrusted with something. I'm this is something that's been given to me, and I need to take, you know, ownership in a way that is the way that's gonna help it get to the next place versus like, I'm gonna control it, it's gonna be mine, and I'm gonna do what I want to do with it, right? That that's two different mindsets. So I think understanding what stewardship is, that's the first key of making sure that you're able to do that. And I think if we can get to that place of understanding really what it is, it's a power, it's more of a powerful word, I believe, than even the ownership mentality because stewardship is much harder. You know, it's not easy to have other people come alongside of you and govern something with you to raise it up to something that it wasn't before, because now you have to manage people, right? When you control something, all you can do is manage yourself, right? And you can lead people out. But when you steward something, you have to bring others along with you because you can't steward anything or entrust anything with yourself by yourself. It has to be a group effort with that.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah, and I think that's a higher level of emotional intelligence and a higher level of skill when you're, you know, when you're, like you said, trying to rally a team and get people to really believe in that um versus just doing things out of control. And, you know, I thought of the the parable of the talents, you know, also when we're talking about this subject, you know. So in in the Bible, you know, there's a parable of the talents where, you know, each person is entrusted with the different, different level of um of resources. And so the one person has one talent, and I think the other one has five, the other one has 10. And the one with the five and the 10, those people invested it. And then when the master comes back to say, hey, you know, like how did how did my stuff do? You know, they had something to show for it. You know, they were thinking that mindset of he's coming back one day. So what do I need to do in the in the meantime to make sure that I have something even better to offer? Like you said, sometimes we care for other other people's stuff even better than we do our own. Because, you know, if if if I break a dish of my own, it's like, okay, well, you know, I can just buy another one. Yeah, just you know, it may not have that sentimental value or, you know, like I kind of know what I'm dealing with. But when you break something that doesn't belong to you, now all of a sudden you're like, oh my goodness, well, I didn't even take a moment to to figure out what that meant to that person, you know? And so with the the parable of the talent, you know, the the servant that had just one talent buries it. And when the Lord comes back to ask about it, he's like, Oh, I just, you know, I was afraid. I wanted to make sure that nothing happened to it. And he's called wicked.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

And we never think about that, you know, like we when we're when we're thinking about that concept in our own life, you know, sometimes we don't think that our talent, like putting away our talent or just saving it or just like uh bearing it for a season is wicked. Yeah. But God has entrusted all of us with things that that we're good at, that we're here to contribute to the rest of the world. Yeah. And so when we have that stewardship mentality, not just when we are the leader, but everybody should be a good steward. We should be a good steward of our talents, our resources, um, you know, even the simplest things, you know, if you're a creative person, lend that creativity whenever you can or increase that creativity, you know, foster that skill, you know, if you're a friendly person, you know, and and you see somebody in need of a pick-me-up, you know, somebody that that maybe doesn't have a lot of friends or or as much going for them, you know, like that's your opportunity to be able to continue to grow, you know, your gifting and to give back to others in that way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

And the other part about that, the master then took the one gift that that person had and gave it to the person that's hand because he knew he was going to get something back in return from what they did for stewarding well what he had already been given. And so I think that mentality of stewardship and then, like you said, lending your gifting for somebody else and to do something else and to make someone else better, I think that is a great thing to have when it comes to just any type of mentality, whether it's family, especially in a teamwork aspect in your job or your career or leading people, that's a great, great attribute to have.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah. Much is much is given, much is required, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Um and so I I want to ask you this. Um, how does stewardship change the way you make decisions?

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Um, I mean, I think, you know, like I said, in my younger leadership days, I wasn't, you know, thinking or dissecting my approaches as much as I think I do now. And um, I think with stewardship, one thing that I always think about now is legacy. So I don't think of myself in any given position for, you know, an infinite amount of time. Everything is finite. So whether it's my current position as a parent, um, whether it's my position, you know, in a leadership capacity at work, or maybe, you know, as part of a ministry or, you know, another uh opportunity or organization that I'm a part of, I always want to think, you know, what is the legacy that I want to leave behind? Like what am I setting up right now that maybe somebody else is going to come and be able to like pick up where I left off. Yeah. And I'm always thinking, I guess, more in a growth mindset. You know, I'm I'm being more intentional about knowing that what we're doing right now is not forever what it's gonna look like. You know what I mean? So I think that's probably like the biggest difference is I I think I have a better way uh now to envision what is going to be able to come from that. And, you know, how do I pass on the baton in the best way possible, the best timing possible? And how do I prepare that next person that's supposed to be taking that baton so that they can run their leg of leg of the race in the way that they need to, you know?

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Absolutely. Um and I think um one of the things that, you know, as I think about our own businesses, one of the things that, you know, yeah, we're on paper, the owners, right? We, you know, put our names on the LLC and the documents and I'm responsible for all the bills and things, but we have a higher accountability, right? And, you know, God has entrusted us with talents and abilities. And the way we are able to get that out is through the business itself. So here on earth we'd be the owners, but our ultimate, you know, authority is God, right? And so he's entrusted us with the thing that he's placed in our hands, and he wants us to steward that, not necessarily be owner of it. Um, I think I talk about in a different episode where I had gave the example of just you know, how sometimes we have this idea and then we ask God to come alongside of it as a counsel, right? Right. And so, but really he's supposed to be an authority figure. And if you think about uh our business and who our authority is, we always give honor to God and it's he gave us these ideas and visions. So we see it as, hey, God is our authority, God is our owner of this, and we're just here to steward it, right? We're here to, you know, have an effect on people and their lives and their purpose and the thing that he entrusted us with. And when when it comes to accountability, we want to give it back to him in a place where it leaves legacy, it puts his footprint on it, uh, it brings him glory. And also too, it brings uh something where there was growth that it, there was fruit that was developed from it. And that could be then place of just life's change, you know, where there's our childcare centers and the children and families, uh, the restaurants where people are happy and they see the servitude of our restaurant and what that looks like in a human form and loving form. So I think there's so many aspects of stewardship that we have to focus on when, and you will focus on if you say, hey, you know what? I've got a higher authority that I'm doing this for, right? This is not all about me and what I want to see. Uh, because on those days when you're tired, right, we might want to say, you know, let me put this down, right? When you're an owner, you can see you can make that decision. But when you're stewarding something, it's always yours in your hands to make sure that it's it's running well. And I think that, you know, it helps us not to give up. And it also gives us, I think, a sense of purpose. And we're doing it to know that we're doing it for our higher authority and making sure that we're doing it well so that we make him proud and we can actually give him the glory when people ask, Hey, well, where's your success coming from? Well, we have a God that's amazing and awesome, and he gives us that giftings and opportunities to do these things. And that's why we're so joyous and happy when we do it, even in those tough times, because business is stressful, right? These things can be very tough. But in the day, when you when you know what you're doing it for, it gives you that sense of of joy when you're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah. And and the Bible says that God gives us the power to create wealth, you know, the ability to create wealth and that, you know, and that he has the authority to promote and demote, you know. And so I think we need to look at that as well and just kind of remember, you know, that if you believe in a higher power, then actually believe in it. Like live your life as if it exists. Yeah. And if it does exist, then you know, how does that impact everything that you that you say and do? Um, and uh, but yeah, so I think that's a a big component too, is just you know, having that mindset and then operating in that mindset, you know, it should reflect your your values and your beliefs should ref reflect how you operate.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Absolutely. And you're kind of already speaking about it, but you know, just going into the leadership and faith aspect of the stewardship, you know, how does faith shape the way that you view leadership and responsibility?

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Um, I mean, honestly, I feel like my faith actually allows me to lead in a way that doesn't feel like everything is on me, you know, because I mean, even our life, right? Like none of us are gonna be here forever. None of us are gonna be on this planet forever. It's just point-blank period. We don't like to think about it. We don't, you know, it's not something that's on the forefront of our mind when we wake up in the morning, but you know, somebody could be on this planet 20 years, somebody could be on this planet 100 years.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

So even our time here is is being stewarded. You know, we do not own, we may feel like we own this body in the moment, but you know, hopefully there's there's more. There's, you know, like hopefully just this body is when when you when you think about ownership, it's almost like you're limiting yourself. Because if that's all that it is, then that's all that it is.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Because if you're disappointed, stewarding it for a season, yeah, then that allows your capacity to to get something greater and do something more with it afterwards, or for somebody else to do something more with it. Yeah, you know, and I remember even when it came to our first business, you know, our our early learning centers, before we started it, we we were thinking about a name, and you know, and it would have been easy to call it, you know, postel, post else preschool or something, you know, it's catchy. Um, but I don't know, we just we didn't, we I think we always felt like it was stewardship. So at no point did we ever feel like we were supposed to name it anything to do with us, and and I always want to have that mindset that literally God will raise up another. So if I don't do right, my my responsibility, if I'm not stewarding well, what God has given me, I want him to give it to somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Because I never want, you know, I never want to get to heaven. And he's like, ooh.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

I know he will.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

You know, and if you're like, what did you do with my stuff? What did you do with my people? And and to be very transparent, there's so many seasons in my life, especially as a young leader and even as a young mom and a young wife, that I felt I didn't do a good job. I did not steward people in the way that I should have. Seriously. Yeah. And I hate to admit that, but you know, it's like we only know what we know in that season that we're in. And there's times when I was frustrated. There's times when I looked at people for what they could do for me and my business and not for who they were as a person.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

And, you know, it's it's humbling to have to admit that, but I have to. It's the truth, you know. And I feel like too, based off of your personality and your strengths, your natural giftings and and weak, you know, strengths and weaknesses, because I I always have been a little bit more of an introvert and I, you know, I'm not like a natural quote unquote people person, you know, some would say. Um, you know, I've I've become more over time because that's those are skills I specifically worked on. But initially, people frustrate me. People don't move as fast as I move a lot of times, you know, like people don't clean the way I clean, they they're not meticulous the way I am. So because of how I operate, a lot of times employees that I had, you know, in my mind fell short of that standard.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

And I think we have to be mindful that we're not putting a greater standard on people than what God does.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

And that they are more than the job that you're employing them for.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

That's so good. And it's hard to do that sometimes because we have these standards of excellence in our in our and our in our goals and and our check marks we got to hit, right? And then you need people to do that. And I think sometimes we can put unwarranted pressure on people. But I think that because we start going onto the ownership side more than the stewardship side of our decision making or how we lead people. And because then it's like, well, this is how I operate. So this is how I want you to operate, versus seeing that person where they are and saying, How can I use that person's giftings where they are to come alongside and help us get to where we want to be? Yeah. Right. And I think when people feel valued and they feel like they're part of something, then that stewardship turns into something magical where they actually then turn into being who they're supposed to be. And then all the things we're looking to get out of them can come out. And so, because stewardship also, I believe, is a harvest place. It's a it's a fertile ground, right? Like when you when you when you when you when you get a fertile field and you start putting seeds in it, it's an opportunity for it to grow, right? And so I think about a farmer has to steward his field extremely well if he wants a good harvest, right? Yeah, there's a there's a process in that. And I think sometimes why we don't steward is because we don't want to go through the process and be patient. And so ownership says I can have it now, do it now, because I'm in control. And that's how sometimes we take control over things we shouldn't, and we put more warranted on ourselves and we leave our teams out of things. But when we actually have the mentality of this is a process, because everything you just said, it's about a process. Like I said, you weren't that maybe in your younger years, and I know I wasn't either, you know. So being transparent, I don't think any of us are when we're younger, but I think there's a process of development that comes over time. But you got to humble yourself enough to know that, hey, I am a work in progress, and over time I can get better at something like that. But then sometimes we don't have the knowledge or the wisdom. And I think that's why we're doing this, because I really feel that people can benefit from hearing these types of stories or hearing this knowledge, because I didn't know what stewardship really was as a young leader. I probably never heard the word. I thought the church word, right? You hear steward and steward, and you just think about money, right? But honestly, stewardship is literally, like we said, you know, is the protection and the and also the uh the the entrustment of something that's given to you. And it's up to you what that thing's gonna become, depending on how you steward it. And so um, so I think this is really good stuff for people to hear about how it what it takes to get to that place, because I think we can go from an ownership mentality to a stewardship mentality, and it can bring us into a place of of excellence when it comes to how we manage ourselves, our people that we're entrusted with as leaders, and ultimately the goal that we're trying to commit at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah. Um, so how do you feel like humility grows when we recognize that we're stewards and not owners?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Well, um, kind of goes on what we were just talking about. Um, when you when you realize that you're a steward over something and it's not necessarily all yours, then the humbless comes into where it's like, you know what, I want to put others around me to do this. Like pride says I have to do it to make sure it's the best. But a humble spirit says, you know what, I'm putting people around me because I want all of us to share in that best. You know, I want all of us to share in this process. Because maybe it's not done as well as if you did it on your own. But you have to be okay with that. Yeah. Right. You got to be okay with things not going how you would want them because other people are in the process. But a good leader knows how to bring people up and teach them along the way. Like I want to leave footprints behind so people can follow them, right? I want to leave a blueprint, or I want to leave something significant so that when people are following me, they can find the standard that I'm talking about. If I just do it all myself and don't give anybody else anything or help them, then what did I really do at the end of the day? I just did it all for myself and I guess I get I pat myself on the back and that's it. You know, like I said, that there's nothing else out of that. But when you can see other people grow, you see other people get part of the process and you see them get to the place they want to be, man, that's such a good feeling, you know? And but it takes a humble spirit. And the thing is, the old adage is like, you, you know, you can't say you're humble that to be humble, right? Because most people who are humble don't even really say it or understand. First, when you start saying yeah, I'm a humble person, you're probably not the most humble person. But, you know, so even talking about it's kind of like, you know, I don't want to say, like, oh, that makes me humble. But what I realize is that it's humbling, you know, to serve other people and to see other people do well. And so, and it it it it diminishes a sense of pride because I feel like it's not about me, it's about what I can push and get out of others so they can become better.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yeah. And I think with um stewardship too, you know, coming from a faith perspective is really, you know, like I said, when we're looking at our limited time here on this earth and the impact, the things that God created us to contribute and do while we're here, you know, we also have to think about the bigger picture and what what are we supposed to be learning in this process? You know, it's like what we're seeing in front of us is not everything that there is. You know, those, like you said, the checklist, the goals, the responsibilities, maybe, you know, a certain, I don't know, level of income or something that either you want to create for yourself or you want to create for the business. Like we have to see that there's something greater and deeper out there that's gonna bring us even more fulfillment than we could ever imagine. Um, and I remember uh, you know, a couple months back, I feel like God just gave me this revelation. Um, because you know, you and I were we're in different seasons of of business, and you know, even our businesses are going through different seasons, you know, like there's we had three of the early learning centers, and then we recently sold two, which is, you know, just something completely different in and of itself because, you know, because we've we've been doing this in this space for for 12 years with the preschools, and so be able to release those two and know that, like, okay, we we did what we were supposed to do with them in the time period we were supposed to, but now it's time for somebody else to do something else with them, and also knowing that most likely when when ownership changes, certain things are gonna go down. I mean, it's just the nature, like statistically speaking, quality is probably gonna decrease before it increases.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

So being able to see the bigger picture and understanding that certain things are gonna happen or not happen, you know, you you have to be okay with that for the greater good and for the greater goal of where you are and what God is asking you to do in this moment in your life. And, you know, I felt like God was saying, like, because we we've we're constantly transitioning into different seasons, right? Whether it's our family, our marriage, our businesses, uh, the different types of businesses we're getting into. But, you know, like I said a couple months back, I felt like God gave me the revelation that, you know, even during that first decade of being entrepreneurs, there was things we missed.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

And it wasn't things that I thought were important, you know, like going into it, I'm thinking, okay, God wants to make money, wants to do this, he wants to do that. And it was the people, like he gave me the revelation of like all the different moments that maybe he set up for people that needed a word that needed, you know, like something, something kind to be sewn into their life in that moment. And if I have my blinders on and I'm only focused on business, there's a whole nother side of life and of you know, souls of people, of individuals. Like we are valuable. Each person has an innate value within them, something that's beautiful, something that's unique, that God has created just for us, just for this world to contribute something. And we have to be able to see that, you know, as something even greater than what they can do. Yeah, and what they can contribute to the job that they work at.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Like life is much bigger than a job or organization.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Yeah. And that and that and that broadens the horizon of stewardship, right? Like when you see the world that way and you see people that way, it broadens how you treat them. It broadens how, you know, I said we don't miss those moments, right? I think it's stewardship is more balanced, you know, because you have to talk about the tangible and the intangibles with people. And so, like I said, the just value of like a good morning, how are you doing? Like, I care about you, what's going on with your life? How like those things really matter, like when you're stewarding people, when you own them, you then you have that ownership mentality. It's just like, did you send that email? Did you get that deadline done? Did you get the, you know, to the shortness of what you're doing in that moment? But stewardship goes beyond, like I said, it leaves a legacy, it leaves an impression, it leaves something behind that's more because then when you you're entrusted with that, that trust then transfers to the person that you're actually speaking to and doing it for. And that's what it's about at the end of the day, is that trust and that understanding and that and that ecosystem you build within that. And I think that's what God wants to create with his believers and with people that he's entrusted things with. He wants, you know, he it's not just about the business, it's the business as an avenue to reach people in a way he wants us to reach them in those other ways that they wouldn't normally be reached. And so uh so I see our business as avenues of stewardship and avenues to get to people and to do God's work that he really wants us to do, even beyond, you know, just the purpose of the business itself. Making money is great, you know, growing is great, uh, scaling, all that stuff is part of it and it's great. But at the end of the day, you know, affecting people's lives, I believe, is the one most intangible and the beautiful thing I love the most about everything we do when it comes to business.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Um, so let's talk about application, right? So we're gonna leave you some things that, you know, some questions we want you to ponder um as you think about stewardship in a little bit different way versus ownership and your leadership journey, whether you're as a parent, uh, whether as a uh even you know, spouses and uh and especially at work, you know, whatever capacity you're in, whether it's uh employee, a manager, a C-suite executive, uh, entrepreneur, we want to leave you some things practical to think about. So first thing we ask you is where in your life are you trying to control instead of steward? Right? Are there some areas in your life that you can give up that control and maybe say, you know what? Let me think about people, let me think about the team, let me think about how I'm governing things around me. Or am I keeping it to myself? Am I you know holding on to the processes, or are people around me growing and getting better because of the leadership that I portray and that the leadership that I'm giving? And if you if it's the latter where your leadership is affecting people, you're probably being a good steward. If they're not anybody changing around you, it might be more on the ownership side.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yeah. And I think as you're taking that moment to inventory, you know, the different aspects of what you're responsible for and maybe where you're you're seeing yourself as more controlling versus um stewarding. I think one thing that I always think about when I'm reflecting on that is stress. So, what are those things that you, you know, it's almost like where are you stressing yourself out? Because usually that extra stress is when you're trying to control things. Yeah. So it's when you're like you're holding on too tight that you feel that. And so, you know, just kind of if you're if you don't know where to start, just start with that. Like what is really stressful in my day, or what is really stressful in my responsibility, and then think about, you know, is that something that I can release to somebody else, or is that something that I can look at in a different way to where it's not bringing me like that much of a weight, you know?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Um, okay. And then the next question who has been entrusted to your care that needs better leadership?

SPEAKER_01 38:13

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

It's like, as I was reading that, I was like, ooh, that's heavy.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Because literally the the leadership that that person has is you, right? So it's like the people that are entrusted to your care, but they need better leadership. It's like, wait a minute, that means I'm not doing my job if I if I actually am like thinking of people, if people are coming to my mind.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Would you trust yourself with you? You know, like, man, like do you would you lead yourself, right? And so I think that's something that you should think about as a leader. You know, how are you doing? It's a it's a reflection in the mirror. And so, and if you like what you see, if you're doing all those good stewardship things and continue on, do greater. But if it's not where you would, I want to lead myself, then we got to answer those questions. How do we get to that place where we can be ready to lead others?

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, and this this might even require like one of those 360 evaluations where you're asking those that you lead, how am I doing? You know, but of course you need to do it in a way that that they actually feel comfortable telling you the truth.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah, because every sometimes if I tell them that, they're not gonna believe me anyway, or like, you know, how do you receive it?

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Or they're gonna be upset, they're gonna retaliate. So I think, yeah, I think that's a good question to think about is like, how do I receive feedback? And, you know, all feedback, all communication is a way to help us grow. And so, you know, we have to have that stewardship mindset where we the the ultimate goal is growth. The ultimate goal is for us to get better as leaders, for our people to get better, and for whatever the mission and the value statement of the organizations we lead um are, you know, are getting better. Yeah. So if you're the type of person that that really doesn't want to know, that's not a good sign. And that's going back to the lack of humility that we talked about. You know, you should not be the same leader you were a decade ago or two decades ago. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Should be some growth there. Absolutely. And so have that, be ready for that accountability, right? So listen to the feedback of others. And if you're not constantly getting feedback from your leaders or the people you lead, then you need to check that and see and make sure you're getting that feedback because it's valuable and it's gonna help you get to that next place. And then last question we'll leave uh with you as our audience. What would change if you led with responsibility instead of possession, right? So if you went from a place of, hey, I'm responsible for others' growth, others' ability to lead, others, you know, when it comes to hey, how they're doing as far as going towards the goal, the purpose of what I'm leading. If you're responsible versus actually, you know, holding on it possession-wise, then your mindset's gonna shift. You want to think about those things that, hey, it's my job to make sure they are their best, right? Not the actual goal is mine, they are their best. And when they are doing their best, the goal then comes into play where they'll be a part of it. So um, I think it's a great conversation. I think um, you know, that mindset shift uh from ownership to stewardship, it's been valuable to us. I believe that we we've really grown in those areas um through experience, right? Uh, from a corporate experience, even to our entrepreneurship journey uh as a family with our children. Um, and you have to be able to evolve because you know, when you stay in that position of wanting to be ownership of everything, it can be very stressful when you feel like everything's on you. Because when you're an owner, it is all on your shoulders, right? And so when you can share that burden and take a stewardship mentality, like, hey, we're part of something bigger, we're part of a team, and everybody's responsible. And I'm gonna lead that charge and be entrusted with that, then I think we can get to that next place. So yeah, it's good. Yeah, but uh thank you so much again for joining us for these wonderful episodes. Um, if you haven't subscribed, make sure you go ahead and hit the subscribe button, Love and Lead Pod right here on YouTube. Also, you can find us on Facebook and also on Instagram and all the other platforms, Apple and Spotify. So we appreciate it. You know, we we want to make sure that we're giving you guys something that you need and it's practical that you can take back home and take back to your business places and in your families and use them. So remember, make sure you're doing the right thing when it comes to how you're leading people. You gotta steward them, not own them. And so, as we always leave you, we want to make sure that you always do these three things. Make sure you love well, you lead with with purpose. Excuse me. I messed that whole thing up, so I'm gonna have to love well, uh, lead with purpose, and then steward better.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

So if you if you switch like the camera, then that way you can like cut into it without you know, or you can actually like say something real quick, like just something real quick, and then I can go back to going in.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Or no. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So go on the camera. Go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

And if there's anything else, any other topics that you guys are interested in, you know, any questions that you guys have or things you, you know, you you would like us to address uh on this podcast, you know, we're open to it. So definitely reach out and let us know.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah, hit that feedback, you know, whether it's via Instagram, whether it's there on YouTube in the comments. We're gonna take that and make sure we're gonna give you more good content that you're gonna want to hear and see right here on the Love and Lead Pod, you know, as you uh we join us every single episode. So um, so it's been my pleasure again. This is my beautiful co host, my wife star, my life partner, does everything with me. And so we'll see you in another episode. But before you leave, you make sure you love well, lead with purpose, and steward what matters. That's right.