Episode #3 - Taking Guard

Join the England Over 60 cricket commentator, Rash Mahmood, as he talks with players, managers and those in and around the team. With previews & reviews of matches and insights from those connected with the team, everything you wanted to know about England Over 60 cricket is here.

(02:25) The World Cup Squad was announced earlier this month, but what about the groups and schedule. Well Rash has all you need to know, with some key dates for your diary.

(08:25) The Lions Squad was also announced and Rash takes a quick look at some of the players included.

The first International matches of the season have taken place and Rash travelled up the A1 to Marton Cricket Club where he spoke to both captains prior to the England Scotland game, speaking first to Clark McConnachie (11:33) and then to Ed Gordon Lennox (13:33). He also reviews both matches that took place with England first up (15:05), and then The Lions (17:53)

(21:40) There is a listener question regarding the County Championship, and  2 suggestions for content.

(23:49) The second round of fixtures in the over 65 Regional Competition took place, and Rash has a summary of the games.

(30:58) Ian Barton is the special guest this time around, who speaks about his unconventional rise into Senior's cricket, his Lions experience, touring India and his broadcasting stints in both cricket and football.

In the next episode, Rash will have a review of the 3 matches England and The Lions are playing in June. There will be some more listener questions, and a guest interview, which is still to be arranged. There will also be a new addition to the episode, as Rash looks back at some of his favourite moments following England Seniors Cricket.

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Transcript

EPISODE  #3  TRANSCRIPT

INTRODUCTION

(00:00) Rash -: Welcome to the podcast dedicated to all things related to England over 60s cricket. These veterans of the game, custodians of its history who carry the game's past, define its present and prove that age is no barrier to brilliance.  Legends of experience, who wear the three Lions with pride, and still very much players to fear.  I'm your host, Rash Mahmood, and this is Willows to Wisdom, where cricket's wisest voices take centre stage. 

WELCOME & COMING UP

(00 :37) Rash -: Hello everyone and welcome to this, the third episode of Willows to Wisdom. Thank you for joining me. It's been a busy few weeks in seniors cricket since episode two was aired. The county championship is in full swing. The eagerly anticipated World Cup and England Lions Squads were announced, the first international action of the summer has taken place, and the second round of fixtures in the over 65 regional championship have been completed, and I've been travelling around the country speaking with loads of people, getting their views on seniors cricket, as well as getting people's thoughts on the podcast, and it's generally been very positive. 

Well, there's a lot to get through on this episode, so here's what's coming up. The England World Cup Squad was announced on the 7th of May, and those of you who listened to the bonus episode will have got to hear my thoughts on it. The World Cup groups and schedule have been announced, and I'll take a spin through the fixtures and venues and have a quick look at England's opponents. The England Lions Squad has been named, and I'll take a look at some of the players in the squad. The first international matches of the season have been completed with England and the Lions taking on Scotland, and there'll be a review of both matches. The second round of fixtures in the Over 65 regional tournament have also been completed, and I'll have a quick summary of the results. I'll preview the upcoming matches for both England and the Lions, and there'll be some more of your listener questions. And our very special guest this time around is the Lancashire Over 60s player, Lions Captain, and co-host of BBC Radio Lancashire's Inside Edge, Ian Barton. So let's get started.

WORLD CUP FIXTURES

(02:37) Rash -:  So the England Selection Committee have nailed their colours to the mast in naming their 16 player squad for the World Cup in Toronto. But what about the other teams taking part, and when and where are England playing? Well I've got that coming up. 

Now those of you who follow England seniors cricket will know how prestigious a tournament the World Cup is. The sacrifices the players make to get to a World Cup should not go unrecognised. Over and above the financial aspect of paying for three weeks in Canada, there is the mental and physical strain that tournament puts on players, and having been fortunate to be in Chennai, India in 2024 for the World Cup, I can tell you firsthand that the pressure is immense, and the smallest thing can upset individuals and the team. All of us want England to go one better than in 2024, and collectively we need to back the 16 players selected, regardless of our individual feelings in terms of selection. So, this year's World Cup features 14 teams, split into two groups, Group A and Group B, both groups having seven teams. In Group A, we have the defending champions Australia, alongside Sri Lanka, Pakistan, the hosts Canada, South Africa, Wales, and a new team for this edition of the World Cup with the Emerging Nations. Group B has England, New Zealand, the USA, India, Zimbabwe, the West Indies, and Scotland. Now both groups are tough, but on first glance England appear to have a slightly easier group to navigate. 

They will lock horns with three of the teams they were grouped with last time around New Zealand, the USA and Zimbabwe. Now we'll have an in-depth look at the World Cup shortly before the tournament starts. So for now, here are the dates for your diary in terms of the England matches.

England play a warm-up match against the hosts Canada on Friday the 7th of August before they start their World Cup campaign against Scotland on Monday the 10th of August at the Paul Coffey Cricket Ground. Next up is the West Indies on Wednesday, August 12th at Terramoto Cricket Ground, with Zimbabwe the opponents the very next day, Thursday the 13th of August at the same venue. After a rest day, England resume their campaign against the USA on Saturday the 15th of August at the Max Ward South Ground and then take on India on Monday the 17th of August back at the Paul Coffey Ground and finish their group fixtures the next day, Tuesday the 18th of August against New Zealand at Terramoto. 

The semi-finals take place on Friday the 21st of August, with the final scheduled to take place on Sunday the 23rd of August. So, six matches in eight days, including two games back to back, which is really going to test the physical and mental attributes of the playing squad. Now if things go to plan, the final group game against New Zealand looks potentially key in determining final finishing positions in the group, and a lot could rest on that final game. Now as I said earlier, we'll have an in-depth look at the World Cup closer to the tournament starting. But in the interim, get in touch with us. Let us know your thoughts about the groups and how you think England will do. When I have details about the streaming and the game times, I will let you know. But keep an eye on the England 60s social media platforms for updates in relation to the tournament. And talking about how to get in touch with us, here's how to do so.

CONTACT  US

(05:39) Rash -: Now here on the Willows to Wisdom podcast, we want you to be involved. If you’d like to send a question in or have a comment or observation about Over 60’s cricket, then you can get in touch a number of ways. In the episode notes, you’ll find a link to FanMail. Click on the link, it’s completely free to use , and we’ll read your message out on the show, but don’t forget to leave your name and where you are contacting us from. If hearing your voice on the podcast isn’t for you, then please send us an email, our email address is willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com, that’s willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com and that’s all one word. 

And talking about getting in touch, you can also comment and message us via the England social media platforms, and to run you through where you can find and access them, here’s the England Social Media Manager, Harrison Burridge with further details.

(06:30) Harrison -:  Have you enjoyed listening to this podcast and want to keep a close eye on the England 60’s team progress? Then open your favourite social media app and search for England 60’s cricket. You’ll be able to find the team on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Hit follow and have a front row seat to the summer’s cricket.

Rash -: Thank you Harrison. So please do folks, follow us on all the social media platforms and send us a message via the FanMail link or indeed email to get in touch with us here at the show. We really do look forward to hearing from you.

SPONSORS

(07:09) Rash -: Now it may surprise you to know, that the England Over 60 team do not receive any direct funding from the ECB. We are reliant on the goodwill of the players and the continuing support of sponsors. So, if you’d like to be involved in sponsorship, please get in touch, and we’ll pass your details onto Paul Bradley, who will be more than happy to discuss what your sponsorship will bring, and to give you an example of how far reaching England over 60’s cricket is, last year there were over 4 million clicks across the various social media platforms. Our YouTube channel had over 137,000 views, spanning some 14,000 hours of viewing in 55 countries, so the opportunities for individuals, companies and corporations to gain exposure is there for all to see. That said, our work with the over 60’ss continues due to the generous, loyal and continuing support of our main sponsors, those being Stonehill Sports, Sporta Tours, NVPlay and Kleenclad. On behalf of the England Management Team and everyone connected in and around the team, thank you for your continuing support.

LIONS SQUAD

(08:25) Rash -: Now the Lions Squad for the 2026 summer was announced shortly after the World Cup Squad. 26 players were announced with some familiar names included. Jason Caunt retains the captaincy, and the team will be managed once again by Paul Gelder. Now it's a very strong Lions side with the likes of Graeme Shaw, Mike Palmer and Kevin Watson adding vast international experience to the squad. A number of players who made their debuts for the Lions last summer and who have had Ashes and international experience are also included, with the likes of Steve Small, Mark Eames, Razi Ahmed, Lee Selfe, Ian Barton, Chris Bowmer, Martin Ford, and Charles Scholefield gaining deserved inclusion. Now there's a lot of talented individuals in the squad, and keeping everyone happy and content during the summer is going to be a difficult job for the Lions management team. 

There was a lot of media interest in the squad due to the selection of the former England international goalkeeper Nigel Martin, and the increased exposure on the squad due to this sent the England social media into a frenzy. The Lions play a pivotal role in introducing players into a higher grade of cricket. Some players don't always make the jump from county cricket to the international ranks, and the number of games the Lions will be playing this summer will give us all a chance to see who could possibly make that step up if needed, or indeed selection for future tours, including India in the national over 60 championship early next year. Now congratulations to all those selected, and when your opportunity comes, grab it with both hands and put yourself in the spotlight. A number of the Lions games will be streamed live, including games against two touring sides from down under in Geelong and Western Australia, as well as games against the UK Indians and the Welsh Dragons. So there'll be plenty of opportunities for players to impress. Good luck to all involved.

INTERNATIONAL REVIEW

(10:23) Rash -: England and the Lions had their first competitive action of the summer, taking on Scotland. First up, it was England playing at Marton Cricket Club on the 14th of May, with the Lions scheduled to play the next day at Seaton Carew Cricket Club. Now I travelled up to Marton with my fingers crossed for better weather than a couple of years ago, when the corresponding fixture was abandoned without a ball being bowled due to rain. Now on arrival, some 90 minutes before the start of play, it was raining heavily, but hopes were high that the game would start on time, with a forecast for intermittent showers and sunshine. England gave debuts to four players who were presented with their England caps before the start of play. Mick Haynes, Alan Whitman, Phil Hilson, and Mohamed Zaheed, and congratulations to those four. Now as the players were warming up and dodging the showers, I caught up with the two respective captains out in the middle, just after the toss. Here's what they had to say. Okay, out here in the middle at Marton, four seasons in one day. I'm pleased to say the sun is starting to poke out. The toss has just taken place behind me, and I'm with the two skippers, Ed Gordon Lennox from England, Clark McConnachie from Scotland. Clark starting with you, winning the toss, electing to bat, looks a very good pitch.

(11:33) Clark -: Yeah, the pitch looks nice, it's very firm. The covers have been on, so it's taking a little bit of a risk with the cloud cover and things like that. But yeah, hopefully we can put on a good total and put England under a bit of pressure later on in the day.

Rash -:  Super stuff a wry smile on his face. Just the one change from the team that was published on social media, Clark. Tony Bennett, Lancashire’s Tony Bennett out, Nigel Clark coming in. I don't know much about Nigel.

Clark -:  Yeah, Nigel's been around the Scottish cricket scene for a number of years. He's an opening batman, so we've brought in like for like, and Nigel's been in our squad, so it's a chance for him to put his name forward for World Cup selection, and he'll play today and tomorrow.

Rash -: Super stuff. Now the two games last year, obviously chasing a big total of 300 at Saltburn, got within 40, but a very close game at Seaton Crew, our venue tomorrow going down by 7 runs. There is improvement in the Scottish side, and ahead of the World Cup, these games give you a chance for you to just finagle a few things, try a few people out, and I know you had quite a successful tour over here the north of England, playing Durham, Yorkshire, and Lancashire. More and more players are getting exposed to international cricket, so it's a great thing for Scotland in the player pool because it is a smaller player pool than England.

Clark -: Yeah, absolutely. We do have a small player pool. The good news is we've added to over the winter a couple of guys have turned 60, a couple of other lads have you know come along who have been playing regular cricket and be part of what we do. So we selected a squad of 24 and we'll whittle that down to 16 for the World Cup, and that'll be announced on Monday. So, as you say, these two games are a brilliant opportunity for people to put their name forward and show what they can do against what is we well know as top class opposition both days. So, no stiffer test than we're going to have today and tomorrow. 

Rash -: Super stuff. Clark, thank you very much for your time. I'll let you get back into changing room. Ed, we're out here. I said the sun was out, but it's starting to rain, so I won't keep you too long. Listen, always pressure on England, no more so than the first match of a summer season. Even more so, it's the first match of a summer season that includes the World Cup.

Ed -: You're right, Rash. But you know, what a, what a privilege and what a joy, and I find myself hugely excited. We've just had a chat in the changing room, 12 guys, there's four who can't be here today, and they are very excited. And the difference, of course, is they know they're going to the World Cup, all being well, and so we can support each other, we can put the opposition under pressure, we can build as we go, and we're very, very excited about it.

Rash -: And so you should be. Listen, I would not like to have been on that selection committee and much scratching of head. So many talented players weren't able to be selected, of course. But a great opportunity today. Do you think setting your stall out, naming that, naming that squad and having the vast majority of them playing here today, other than the four, does it increase the pressure? Because there's a lot of scrutiny on the selections, obviously. There's a lot of interest in English seniors cricket. Does that ramp up the pressure even more? Or you think these are good players, just go out and perform?

Ed -: Yeah, Rash, look, on selection, as you said in your great Willows to Wisdom podcast, when you announced the squad, there's a whole load of stuff that's gone on around the side, which a lot of people don't know. So, you know, I personally ask them to respect that, and the selection committee have got to where they got to for all the reasons that they think are right at the at the time. In terms of pressure, I mean, looking at the guys in the changing room today, you wouldn't think there's any pressure at all. But, you know, we know that we've got a whole season of championship cricket to go, you know, looking at those scores every week to see who's getting them or not, it's natural, but we need to take that pressure off, and you know, Mel and I will be doing all we can to help people perform at their best.

Rash -: So Ed, thank you ever so much indeed. I'll let you back in as the rain starts to come down. Ed, thanks for your time. 

(15:05) So there were the views of the two respective skippers just after the coin toss, and as I finished speaking with Ed, the rain came down again, prompting another delay. However, after a short, sharp shower,  play was able to begin, with Scotland opening up with Graham Garden and Nigel Clark. England opened the bowling with one of the debutants, Mick Haynes, with Phil Deakin his opening partner. 

And it was tough going for the Scotland openers early on, with variable bounce and some definite movement off the pitch. And it was Deakin who struck first for England, trapping Clark LBW right in front to give the umpire a straightforward decision. Clark out for 2 at the start of the sixth over, Scotland 12/1, and with that wicket, Phil Deakin moved past Jim Phillips to become England's leading over 60 wicket taker, and Deakin struck again in his very next over, again with his first delivery, this time having Garden caught by Zaheed. Garden out for 13, Scotland now 20/2, but he wasn't finished there, as with his final delivery of the over, Stevie Allison etched a simple chance to Steve Aston behind the stumps. Allison out without troubling the scorers, Scotland 20/3, and a double wicket made him for Deakin. 

Scotland needed to regroup, and whilst it was slow going, they did manage to get to the 16th over before they lost another wicket. This time Peter Moses being clean bowled by Whitman, giving him his first international wicket. Moses out for four, Scotland 44/4. The Scotland skipper, Clark McConnachie, was at least showing some resistance, and Scotland passed a 50 run mark, but he was the next batter out in the 24th over, clean bowled by Mel Hussein. McConnachie out for 33, the score 69/5. Michael Ingram was given out LBW for 8 at the start of the 27th over off the bowling of Mel Dobson, Scotland 76/6, and a further three runs were added off the next couple of overs, when the rain returned, and caused play to be suspended after 28 overs with the score at 79/ 6. Now, despite some sunny intervals, the rain returned at regular intervals, and with a forecast for more heavier rain during the late afternoon, the play was abandoned for the day shortly before 4 pm. So no result in the end, but a good day on the personal front for Phil Deakin, becoming the leading England wicket taker, taking his England tally to 54 wickets, and he finished with figures of four overs, one maiden, three wickets for five runs. Many, many congratulations, Deekes. 

Now it's difficult to evaluate this curtailed performance. Haynes, Whitman and Zaheed all had a bowl on debut, which will no doubt settle their nerves going forward. Deakin was simply unplayable. But the Scotland batting was poor, and they would no doubt be looking for an improved performance the next day when they took on the Lions. 

(17:53) So after the abandonment of the match the previous day, the England Lions took on Scotland at Seaton Carew, with our guest on the show this week, Ian Barton of Lancashire being the Lions skipper. Now there was much interest in this game due to the announcement of the former England international goalkeeper Nigel Martin being named in the starting lineup. Alongside Martin, there were also a number of debutants, including Martin, being presented their Lions caps, Paul McEwen, Colin Cliff, Roger Hyatt, and Ian Woodall, and congratulations to all of them. In addition to those making their debut, Kevin Watson and Graham Shaw, stalwarts of the England seniors over the past few years, were also included.

England won the toss and elected to bat, and it was the skipper who opened up with Steve Small, and both batters were positive from the very start. Barton continuing his fine form with the bat was particularly impressive, and together with Small punished anything short or loose from the Scottish Bowlers. The 50 run partnership was reached relatively quickly, and the pair continued to bat well together, with Barton retiring on 50 not out, the score passed the hundred mark, when Steve Small was run out for 42, the score 103/1. Neil Jackson looked to continue his fine start to the season, but he was out for 20 with a score on 133, being caught by Peter Moses off the bowling of Shaheed Mahmood. Graham Shaw was the next man out clean bowled by Mahmood for 17, the score 152/3, and Scotland had done well to stem the flow of runs.

Mahmood was in a groove now, and England had no apparent answer, losing three wickets for the addition of four runs in four overs. Martin and Hyatt both being dismissed without scoring, and Watson being dismissed for two. England now 156/6. Colin Cliff looked to get England back on track, and despite the loss of Charles Scholefield and Cliff retiring not out having scored 25, it was left to Paul McEwen and Ian Woodall to share a fine partnership to get England to 220/7 after their 45 overs. Pick of the bowling for Scotland by a very long way with Shaheed Mahmood, who returned figures of 9 overs, 1 maiden, 4 wickets for 28.

Scotland found it hard work against England the day before and would have been hoping to put on a much better batting performance. However, they struggled mightily against some fine seam bowling from the Chief, Paul McEowen and Chris Bowmer, who ripped through the Scottish top order, bagging two wickets each to leave Scotland on 31/4. In truth, Scotland were never really in the hunt to chase down the England total and lost wickets at regular intervals, with Charles Scholefield outstanding in taking four wickets and Ian Woodall bagging himself a brace, as Scotland were all out for 75 after just 25.4 overs, the Lions winning by 145 runs in a dominant performance. Schofield finished with the outstanding figures of 7.4 overs, one maiden, four wickets for 22 runs, but was ably supported by McEowen, Bowmer, and Woodall. So a good start for the Lions, and much to like about how they went about the game. For England, the way they were bowling against Scotland, I'm sure they would have been chasing a relatively low score as well the previous day. 

How much can we learn from the two matches is debatable. What we can definitely say is that this was a very good start to the season, and winning and playing well are good habits to have. For Scotland, well they will look to regroup, and much needs to change for them if they want to be competitive in the World Cup. But , congratulations to England and the England Lions on two very good performances.

LISTENER QUESTIONS

(21:40) Rash -: Well, we've reached the part of the show when we hand it over to you? Just the one question this time around and two suggestions. Our question comes from Gary Oliver in Derby, who asks, Why are there no streams of the County Championship Games? Well, thank you for your question, Gary. I would hazard a guess that it comes down to money, like most things do. The host grounds for the county championship will have to add the county fixture to their schedule, which does incur a cost for streaming purposes. Who pays for that extra cost would be the question. It's doubtful the host club will get any extra revenue from it, and if not them, then the cost would be on the two sides taking part, and I'm not sure the county sides would welcome that. 

Now a couple of years ago, the first 11 final between Yorkshire and Lancashire was streamed live, with yours truly providing ball by ball commentary. I don't know who paid for myself and Steve Dellow, who assisted me on the day to provide the stream and commentary, but I can make some inquiries and update you and the listeners.

Now we've had two people make suggestions via our social media pages. The first comes from Martin Pearse, who suggests interviews with former stars of senior cricket. Well it's a great suggestion, Martin, and it's certainly something I can look and try and include in future episodes.

Our second suggestion comes from Philip Chudley, who suggests plotting the course of international seniors cricket from its inception to the present day. Well again, Philip, it's a great suggestion, but it sounds like a lot of work, and at present I just don't have the time to devote to it. But I'm sure there is somebody out there who knows someone who probably does know a lot about seniors cricket. So please, if you are that person, get in touch, and I can look to get in touch with you and see if we can incorporate it into the podcast. I think it would be a very informative and enjoyable series to be involved in, and I'm more than happy to collaborate if someone out there is already doing something along those lines. Well, that's the list of questions done for this episode. My thanks to Gary for his question, and thank you, to Martin and Philip, for their suggestions for future content.

OVER 65 REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

(23:49) Rash -: The second round of fixtures in the regional over 65 competition took place on Thursday the 21st of May. The South West Falcons took on the South East Saxons at the Brownswood ground in Bath. The Falcons won the toss and put the Saxons into bat, and as they had done in the previous round, the opening power of Andrew Stegall and Gordon Morgan provided a solid platform, reaching a 50-run partnership, before Stegall was stumped by Cornwall's Anton Luiton off the bowling of Somerset's John Courtney. One wicket brought another, as Mark Shepherd was bowled by Cornwall's Hugh Rogers with just a further run added. And Falcons didn't let up, with Chris Trevatt falling LBW to Courtney, the Saxons losing three wickets for eight runs in three and a half overs. Well could the Falcons press home their early advantage? Morgan was the next batter out, clean bowl by Courtney, who took his third wicket, the score 70/4 at the drinks interval, and despite some resistance from Surrey's Mike Redfearn, who scored 35 before he was caught off the bowling of Cornwall's Trevor Lee, wickets were lost at regular intervals, with the Saxons eventually all out for 131 after just 38.1 overs. The standout bowling performance for the Falcons was that of John Courtney, who returned figures of 9 overs, no maidens, four wickets for 28 runs, and Hugh Rogers, Trevor Lee, and Nick Marment helped themselves to a couple of wickets each. 

The Falcons would have been very confident as they went out to bat, but things didn't go all their own way, being reduced to 81/3 in the 14th over, and their victory target of 132 seemed a distant one, as they then lost three wickets for three runs in five overs, to leave them precariously placed at 86/6. But despite losing a couple more wickets, the Falcons got home, thanks in large part to Marment, who was 30 not out at the end, alongside his partner Trevor Lee, the Falcons reaching 132/7 after 28.1 overs, winning by three wickets. 

Down at Foxton Ganta in Cambridge, the Northern Superchargers took on the Eastern Echoes, and the Superchargers won the toss and elected to bat, but suffered an early setback with Lancashire's Tony Bennett being adjudged LBW off the bowling of Norfolk's Andy Gregory in the first over, which brought Durham's Tony Burbeck to the crease, and together with Yorkshire's Martin Watkin, they shared a partnership of 82 before Watkin was bowled by Hertfordshire's Gareth Wynn for 33 to score 84/2. Derbyshire's Richard Merriman joined Burbeck, who passed the 50 run mark, and the pair set about the bowling, with Burbeck bringing them per fines entry and the pair passing the 150 run mark before Merriman was caught off the bowling of Lincolnshire's Steve Armstrong. Noddy Deaden, the supercharger skipper, joined Burbeck out in the middle, and after a 58 run partnership, the score had reached 214. When Deaden was out, caught off the bowling of Hertfordshire's John Smith, and Smith struck again just four bowls later, dismissing David Lee's LBW, the score 220/5 with five overs remaining. With Birbeck smashing the ball to all parts of the ground, the 250 run mark was passed, with the Superchargers eventually finishing their innings on 284/6 after their 45 overs. Tony Birbeck remained not out on 167 of just 125 balls with 25 4s and 1 6. An absolutely magnificent achievement.

Well in reply, the Echoes had no time to hang around, and they opened up with the ever reliable Cambridge opener Nigel Gadsby and Bedfordshire's Jeremy Page, who shared a 50-run opening partnership, and at 20 overs in were sat at 84 without loss. But that wily character ‘Noddy’ Dearden made the breakthrough for the Superchargers, having Gatsby trapped LBW for 55 of 72 deliveries to score 88/1. Colin Walters from Suffolk joined Page and the two progressed the score on to 143 when he was bowled by David Lees, and with Steve Armstrong the next man to go with a score on 142 with just 15 overs to go and another 143 runs required, the task seemed just a little bit beyond the Echoes batsman, who gave it their best shot, but in the end finished their 45 overs with a score of 213/7, with Page top scoring with 71. Ian Frost was the pick of the Superchargers bowlers with figures of six overs, no maidens, three for twenty-three. So the Superchargers winning by 71 runs.

The final fixture took place at Biscester and North Oxford, where the Midlands Mavericks took on Cricket Wales, with Cricket Wales winning the toss and electing to bat. And after an opening stand of 41 between Mark Williams and John Lewis, Williams was the first wicket to four, being clean bowled by Warwickshire's David Pyne. The score had reached 53 when Lewis was the next man to fall, stumped by Warwickshire's Kev Bissett off the bowling of Pyne, and just past the halfway point, the top scorer from round one, Stuart Carpenter, was the next wicket to fall, caught off the bowling of the skipper Nigel Moore, the score 94/3. Rob Franklin continued his good batting, passing his half century before eventually being caught on 64, giving Pyne another wicket, the score 159/5, and Wales added another 40 runs in the remaining seven overs for the loss of two more wickets to leave them 199/7 after their 45 overs. The Mavericks bowled very well indeed, with Pyne and Moore taking three wickets apiece.

Now the Mavericks made an excellent start to their run chase with Rob Drake and Oxfordshire's Phil Manger opening up, and the pair made a very good start, sharing a century partnership and then some before Manger fell when the score was on 134, having scored 76. Warwickshire's Mo Azam joined Drake out in the middle, and despite Cricket Wales's best efforts, they were not able to find a breakthrough, with Drake and Azam sharing a 69 run partnership to steer the Mavericks home, winning comfortably by nine wickets. Drake finished on an unbeaten 82 and Mo Azam on 39. 

So, round two completed, and once again there were some outstanding individual performances. But the player of the round for me, well that has to be Tony Birbeck, reminding everybody, as if they needed  reminding, just how good a batter he is. So, the standings after two rounds have the Superchargers and the Falcons sitting atop of the group, undefeated, having won both of their matches. 

Next come the Mavericks and the Saxons, with Cricket Wales and the Echoes yet to get off the mark. The next round of fixtures take place on Thursday the 18th of June when Cricket Wales take on the South East Saxons, the Midlands Mavericks take on the Eastern Echoes, and the final fixture of the round sees a heavyweight clash at the top of the table as the Northern Superchargers take on the South West Falcons in what promises to be a blockbuster of a match. Please come along and support if you can. I've put a link in the episode notes to the competition website. Congratulations to all the players, officials, scorers and umpires once again, and to all the grounds that hosted. See you in three weeks' time.

GUEST INTERVIEW

(30:58) Rash -: I interviewed Ian just shortly before the Bank Holiday. Now we did have some technical difficulties in this recording, folks, so, apologies if the sound dips in and out. There was some work being done in the local area on my broadband. Hence the internet kept dropping out. But we've done as best wecan and hopefully cleaned up as best I can. I hope it doesn't spoil your enjoyment of what was a very entertaining interview.

Okay, my guest today on the Willows to Wisdom podcast is a very shy, retiring fellow from Lancashire. His rise into the senior ranks, if not meteoric, is somewhat different to the paths taken by other players. After debuting in the summer for the Lions, he was included on the tour to India to play in the over 60 national championships where he played very well. Now fast forward a few months further down the line, and not only was he included in the 26-man Lions squad but was Lions skipper for the recent match against Scotland.

He's made an absolutely blistering start to the season with the bat and will no doubt look to continue his fine form for the rest of the summer for both Lancashire and the Lions. Now not only is he a talented batter, but he's also a radio star, co-hosting BBC Radio Lancashire's Inside Edge. He's also a co-commentator for BBC Radio Lancashire covering Blackburn Rovers football. It's my great pleasure to welcome Ian Barton to Willow's Wisdom. Morning, Barts.

Ian -: Morning, Rash. That's an intro. Thanks, pal.

Rash -: Did I miss anything?

Ian -: No. I don't think so, buddy. Thank you. That's very nice of you, thank you.

Rash -: No, you're more than welcome. Listen, thank you for joining me. Now, when we sat together in the freezing cold and damp in the commentary area last September in the West Midlands when the Lions versus Scotland, the final game of the Tri-Nations, could you have ever believed how far you would have come in such a short space of time? Literally, eight months later on, so much has happened in your cricketing world.

Ian -: Yeah, that's astute, really. The answer to your first question is certainly no. I couldn't, you know, to it's just been a bit of a whirlwind, hasn't it? Obviously when you're 60 years old or whatever, 61, it's yeah to see what's gone on has just been amazing and like you say shocking to a degree in a nice way, you know, it's been brilliant.

Rash -: Let's start with your most recent one then, Ian, being named Lions skipper for the match against Scotland. Now it must have been a fantastic day for you and your family, helped, of course, with a dominant victory. But what was it like? I mean, it must have come right out of the blue with the greatest of respect to you.

Ian -: Yeah, yeah, it did, obviously. You know, obviously, I really enjoyed playing, I just love playing cricket, you know. I always have done and I always will do. It's this has been a complete breath of fresh air to me finding out about the overage seniors cricket. Yeah, obviously I had a fantastic time in India, you know, when we went to across to India in late January, early February, and just loved being around the lads and having the crack and  the team spirit and everything was brilliant and the banter and everything about that trip was great.

So, yeah, I was hoping that I could make the you know the World Cup squad. So many good players playing overage cricket, over sixties cricket in England that you know it's an absolute honour to even be in the you know to even be in the thinking of the selectors and I know I was very very close to being selected, I've been told that by you know by the selectors, so you know I was proud of that. But then to get asked to captain the Lions was just absolutely brilliant. I was when I got the phone call off Paul Gelder, I was a bit shocked really, but yeah, and absolutely loved it, Rash, loved it.

Rash -: Well, I mean, loved it. You skippering and opened the batting, and another 50 retired not out against  Scotland. But just what was it like captaining that team? I mean you have the likes of Graham Shaw, Shawsey, and Watto, Kevin Watson, experienced, vastly, vastly experienced international players. I mean, what was it like you know, skippering them and laying down the law?

Ian -: Yeah, well, they'll tell you. I mean, the lads were brilliant. I was nervous, obviously. You know, when you know, when you get asked to captain your country, and I appreciate it's the Lions, it's not the Senior Squad, but it was just the lads were brilliant. I went up on the Thursday to watch the first team. I thought, well, you know, try and get up there early and meet some of the first team lads. Unfortunately, obviously, you know, the game was rained off, as you know, you were commentating on it, and it had been rained off by the time I got there. 

But that was a nice feeling to be around some of the lads that had been up, you know. Mel was there, Nick, Nick was there. Graham was there, there was lads there who'd been on the Lions tour as well, Deeks, obviously. But, so it put me at ease a little bit. And then the day itself, I just thought I'm just gonna do, I'm just gonna do it my way, you know.

I wasn't overawed by any of the players that were, you know, that were there, Graham. I'd spoke to Graham on the Thursday and obviously Watto, and I must say here now, Watto's been a really, really great help to me because I was so pleased when he was in the side, as I was with Graham, you know, when these are experienced players and Steve Small who's at probably somebody else had as well when I go through that side and just off the top hand, I can't remember. They were just brilliant with me. And I tapped into them. I said, you know, I'll be doing it my sort of way, but I'll be coming to you, you two, you three, and you know, tapping into your knowledge, and they were just fantastic, mate. And I can't, I can't thank the players highly enough of how they were on the day. It was a bit manic before because Paul Gelder again, he was brilliant with me, but you've got to do so much Rash before the game.

Rash -: Yeah

Ian -: And it's yeah, you know, and which was brilliant. The Seaton Carew, the setup was great. We were there early. I mean, I was there at 10 past nine for a 11 o'clock start, and I got in the dressing room, and the four new lads, five new lads, they were already there. Yeah, that's how keen they were. So that was brilliant, and it just it just went just went fantastically well. And I can't, like I say, I can't thank the lads enough for their attitude and the way they were. And just said before the game, really, to I just think it's as important for us all to obviously we've got to be nervous, but it's important for us all to enjoy the success of other players in the team more than yourself.

Rash -: Absolutely.

Ian -: You know, and that's how you build a spirit and how you build, you know, get a togetherness and a will to win. And the lads all bought into that, you know, bought into it, and it was just just brilliant. And I did a few a few Barty things, like obviously I was out there batting, and I was finding it reasonably easy, Rash, and not reasonably easy, but I was in good, I felt in good nick and batted, but like I say, I'd had to give five new caps out before the game, obviously, and make speeches, which is a massive honour, but it obviously it takes time and close to close to start, and you've got your team photos and you've tossing the coin, you're putting your  blazer on. So I was a bit when I went out to bat, I was a little bit frazzled because you've had so much to do before it, but yeah, I felt good when I got out there and Steve was a big help and it's great to bat with him because he's a good friend. 

We've only you know met each other 12 months ago, but I get on great with Steve and he's a he's a top lad. And then when I got to a 40 quite quickly, I thought, right, if I get to 50, I'm gonna retire, which I know you're not meant to do, and it wasn't a game where you know, but I thought these lads have travelled from all over the country to play for England and they don't want to be watching me. I want, I wanted them to be part of the game. So good. So when I did get to 50, I ran off. I I'd spoke to, I spoke to the skip of Scotland and said, Is it all right? And he said, Yeah, if you want to do that. And I think Steve thought, what the heck's Bartyhe doing now? 

I hadn't told Steve and and Shawsey was next to me. Well, Shawsey was in. Shawsey, you should have seen his face. He was he was a bit perplexed, was the lad. Um and he said, What are you doing? You've got a hundred on nailed. I said, No, I said, No, it's not me. You come, you you're in next. And he was like, he just couldn't believe what I'd done. But anyway, eventually he got up, he got up and went in, and yeah, it was great, mate, because that's about me. I want, I want people to enjoy the cricket, I want them to be involved, I want them to be in a team that where they all feel part of that team, and everybody's just as important as each other. And I thought that was a bit of a not I didn't know it's a statement, but it just showed that I, you know, I want people to be selfless and that I'm selfless and that and the rest of the lads backed me and bought into that as well. So that was brilliant.

Rash -: Yeah, excellent, and it was certainly was with an excellent, excellent performance winning by I think 145 runs. Now, Ian, you mentioned briefly when you were talking about that Scotland game, meeting a few people that you'd been on the Lions tour with in India. Now, I've asked a few of the players who toured India earlier this year for their thoughts. So it seems only right and proper, I ask you. What did you think of the tour?

Ian -: Absolutely incredible. Just a life, well, once in a lifetime, I say once in a lifetime, but potentially it could be coming back again. But you know, the experience for me, Rash, was just unbelievable. And not just the cricket was amazing, but just to be travelling to India and yeah, it was just it was it was inspiring really, and I absolutely loved it. But I think the best thing, well, I think a lot of the lads and the ladies that were on the tour as well, it was just a fantastic atmosphere throughout the trip, you know, and the way that everybody got on and the crack we had, and there was no hassle at all. 

It was brilliantly organized, you know. Obviously, Bradley's amazing at stuff like that. And Paul Bradley was just absolutely outstanding with his organisation skills. And yeah, and just the number of people that said because there's some experienced people on there who've been on a number of tours that you know, and they had, yeah. And they said it's the best tour they've ever been on by a long way, and that you know, with everything now, the crack, and like say the team spirit, the bonding, and everybody got on great, and there was no hassles whatsoever. And I hope I was I hope I helped a little bit in that. You know, as you know, as you said, I'm quite an outgoing sort of a guy, but I just want everybody. I think that rubbed off a little bit, mate. It was, it was a fantastic trip, unbelievable.

Rash -: It did indeed.

Ian -: I was, I was so, so proud.

Rash -: Well, I mentioned in my introduction your somewhat meteoric rise into seniors cricket.  Now yours isn't a traditional route into seniors cricket, it's slightly unconventional, isn't it? So tell us how it started. How did you get into the senior ranks?

Ian -: There's a number of people now, you know, they have no idea that there's you know over 50s cricket, over 60s cricket, over 70s cricket. I did know that there was over 50s cricket because some of us have a bit of a cricket badger and I've obviously loved it and been heavily involved in cricket, you know, and one club, Longridge, all my life. So I tried to get in the ranks at 50. I didn't have any luck at all. I don't know who was running it. I made a couple of phone calls, but shall we say that they weren't too sort of friendly and forthcoming. 

I think half the time it's because I played for a club called Longridge Cricket Club, which is a small town outside, very small town outside Preston. And in our pomp, we didn't  we didn't play in a league with professionals, you know, this all Lancashire League pros and all that. Well, we always believed the lads who played for Longridge that we were so substandard to the Lancashire League or to the Northern Premier League or whatever, because we didn't, we played on a poor ground and poor you know facilities in comparison and we didn't have a pro. 

What we realized as we all got older together, all these mates playing that we were really good cricketers, and you know, many a time we'd play Lancashire League, Northern League clubs and central Lancs League clubs and whatever else, and if they didn't have the pro, we'd beat them convincingly in cup competitions. Yeah. By the time we were sort of 30 odd, we all realised we were decent cricketers and doing really well. But when I tried to get in Lancashire, I think, you know, because where did he play at? Oh Longridge or forget him then because he didn't play with a pro. But so that used to that frustrated me. 

So I waited till I got to 60. I thought, right, I'm gonna have a real go at this. I stopped playing for Longridge. My last game for Longridge first team was at Stanley Park, Blackpool, where obviously, you know, it's a county ground. I think I was 56, I think, played for the first team. I got a number, eventually got through to John Sharples and you know said, because he said, come to Nets. So I went to Nets, went to every indoor net at Bury. So it was a 50-minute drive for me, every net for that, I think, 10 weeks in the winter. And when I was batting in the Nets, obviously not all the first teams, they were in and out of the first team, lads, but I thought, yeah, I thought, I'm I think I'm still can do it, you know. And some of the 70s lads were coming up to me and saying, Oh, great to have you here, you know, you're 59, you know, you're 60, just what the first team needed. A young fit lad who can open the batting and whatever else. So I thought, great. 

Anyway, so when it came to the start of the season, I thought, you know, dying to dying to get in. But unfortunately, the first game, I was in Punchestown. I go off to the races every seven or eight mates. We go over to Ireland to the Punchestown Festival. So unfortunately, I missed, I mean, I wasn't available actually for the first game. So I thought flipping heck it probably going to cost me because obviously if the first team win, they're going to keep the same side, which is what happened. 

I was in the second team for away at Yorkshire at Castleford. So I was revved up. I was really looking forward to it. I thought I'll open the batting and hopefully make a statement and whatever. Because he asked me what position I'm batting and all that. But I wasn't aware of how Vet’s cricket works, basically. You know, you shall we say a few people try to dominate games, don't they? So I got to Castleford, we bowled ‘em out 120, a wet track, it'd been a thunderstorm overnight. So we get in the dressing room half time, and you know, chuffed, we've done well. And the captain says, Right, we should knock these off, guys. Well, these are the batting order. 

So he got to six, and I still wasn't named. And I thought, oh my goodness. So I was either seven or eight, I think seven in the seconds, and I thought, right, I'm not….. in no way am I conceited. I speak my mind, which is for you know, it should I've always had done, I always will do, but I'm a fair person. And I thought number seven in the second team after been at the nets and done really well. Anyway, that number seven I was, and he said that's you know that's where you're batting in this team, mate. You Ian, you know, make it ,make the most of it. 

So after five weeks, I hadn't batted. I played for the second team five, four or five times. I'd got more wickets than runs after five weeks, and I can't ball. So I got two runs and one wicket.  Sorry, two wickets and one run. So my mates were saying, Barty, what are you doing? Why are you trailing all over just to field for the second team? I said, well, I want to play. I know I can still do it. Anyway, so I get asked to go to play for the first team at Yorkshire, and that's where I met Kev. Yeah, who likes he's been and obviously some of the England lads there as well. There's quite a few of the England team were in that team. Again, I went as a fielder, I batted eight. I took a….. I took a really good catch that day. Again, that sounds, I'm not being big headed, it was running the hard ones, Rash. You know, when you're running backwards and you get or age, it's blinking hard when it's over your head. And I managed to backpedal and took it at full stretch, running to my left. The Yorkies now they stood up and applauded the catch because it was in front of the pavilion. And I thought, oh my goodness. And Kev was the leader of that, and he came up to me after you know after the game and asked a lot about me and said how well I'd fielded and whatever else. And they were really good, the Yorkshire boys, and uh that gave me a bit of confidence. 

But yeah, and then another six or seven weeks pass, I played for the second team by which time my mates were just going, this is a joke, boy. You, you're a quality player, you're not even getting a gig. I said, Well, I know. Why are you going to field, you know, driving, driving over the north of England just to field. And I said, No, I'll prove my point. I'll prove my point to these lads that I can play. And then luckily Glenn Bullock took over,  but Glenn had been away, and Glenn came over, came over to captain, back to captain. And it got me up to six, and then I didn't get in twice. But luckily at the end of July, which is sort of well, just the knockout stages had just started, and when I got my chance, we were 40 for four against Derby, Leicestershire, I think.  It was when it was Melvin. Was it I always say Melvin or Melvin? I've got I'm gonna go with Melvin. 

Rash -: Melvin Holmes. 

Ian -: Correct. Well, Melvin was bowling really well, he's bowling quick when he got in the England side, didn't he? On the back of that, and he was very impressive. And I went up to him after the game and actually said to him, Thanks, mate, for making me feel like I'm a cricketer again. Because it was he was bowling at decent, a decent lick, doing a bit with it, and it felt like proper, you know, like sort of you know, age group cricket again. 

And anyway, we were 40 before I came in. I was really scratchy early on, so I was so nervous. I got 70 odd not out, and we won by six wickets or whatever, and obviously then they all thought not so bad because the top four were the big boys, you know what I mean, and they were all out. So, then I got in then, and then I think I got 90 the next week at Rottenstall against I don't know, Norfolk, and then I got 90 odd. So I just ended up getting runs, and then luckily we got to the final, didn't we? And we beat Yorkshire in the final in a rain affected game. 

Rash -: Yes, that was at Oakamoor, wasn't it?

Ian -: It was mate, yeah. Yeah, that hattrick by Steve Harrison, yeah. It was a great, you know, and so that was my first taste of cricket, Rash, you know, overage cricket, and we ended up winning, the winning the county championship. So I thought, flipping heck, right, this is alright, but it had took me a long time to get in, mate, as you know, as you know. But once I got in, I thought I'll prove to the powers that be at Lancashire, you know, first team and second team that I can play. 

But not just that, I'm a team player, mate. You know, a lot of people would have because you just go in fielding and you know, batting at eight and not getting in. A lot of people would have given it, given up on it. But I'm a team player, I believe the team's better than the individual. If I wrap up because of that, being a soft lad from where I'm from, you know, that that's just being soft, and I'm not soft, and I love cricket and I want to help my team. And hopefully by getting in and them giving me a chance, we won the county championship. I scored quite a few runs and you know, and that's how I kicked on from there, really, but yeah.

Rash -: Well, and you haven't look ed back since. Well, unconventional, it might have been Barts, but I think from what you've done, no room for you sitting on the sidelines and batting at seven or eight, even though it's a very, very talented and powerful lineup that the Lions have, and indeed England. You've started this season like an absolute house on fire. Unbeaten 50s twice against Scotland, the fifth highest score in County Championship history, scoring 178, and you back that up with another century. I know there's a little blip in between, but has your inclusion into the Lions setup given you more confidence, or is there some other reason your plays on well, what seems to be a different level at the moment?

Ian -: I think that's astute Rash. I think playing for the Lions that you know putting the England Lions jumper on and whatever, it does raise your game. It does make you realise that you're obviously a good player, whether you're a you know, a batter, bowler, a keeper, all arounder, whatever you are, you obviously realise you know you've been recognised and your stats are decent. So, yeah, I think the real reason though, Rash, why saying on another level, and obviously, yeah, of course I've had a good start, you know what I mean? But I've been given the chance, Rash, and the bat tends to dominate the ball, mate, doesn't it? 

Rash -: It does, yeah. 

Ian -: There's a lot of reasons for that, as you know, and all our listeners will know, mate, who obviously play the game as well. So, anyway, uh luckily I got the opportunity and spoke to the skipper and said, look, I really would like, if possible, John, to open the batting, because that's where I've always played, and that's you know, like I say, my last game for the first team at Longridge was batting opening the batting at Stanley Park, and I was 50, 55 year old or something in the first team. So obviously that's where I've always batted. But anyway, luckily,  John Punchard said, yeah, yeah, by all means, yeah, you know, you can open this season. 

So it gave me a chance to open, and that's where I wanted to bat, and I knew that I'd got to take the opportunity. I didn't quite know Rash, I was gonna take it the opportunity to the level I have done, but yeah, yeah, it's where I want to bat, But the other thing, Rash, is that I want to bat there, but I don't I I don't want to bat there every week. If I'm getting big runs, and lads are having to watch me bat and get big runs, I don't want to bat there every week because I want other people to have a chance to play cricket, you know. We and at the end of the day in this level of cricket, unfortunately, we're a lot closer to the end than we are to the beginning. So I don't want to see lads bloody travelling all over the gaff to watch me bat and get a hundred. Good for me, but it's not it's not good for the team, I get that if we win, but it's there's more to, there's more to cricket at this age than just winning constantly because people, it's a mental health thing, and you know, people want to have a do. And we see people, I think you see people leaving teams because they're not getting a do, you know, they're batting at eight and they're fielding and they're not bowling. And I stuck at it because I'm obsessed with cricket and I love the game, and I knew I wanted to prove people wrong, that's what I've done all my career. But I don't want to be batting opening every week, I want people to other people to have a chance because that's to me what cricket's about, and that's why I did it when I captained the England Lions, you know. 

If the lads buy into the team and no individual is bigger than the team, if lads buy into it and they all know they feel they're really part of this team, and they've got a great you know, camaraderie, and they want each other to do well. Well, England will win. Simple. England will win, England Lions will win, Lancashire will win, because that's just the way cricket is. You've got to be part of it, and you don't want to feel like you're not getting a do because that's not fair. And like I say, we're 60 odd year old, we're not  young kids, and it's not right at under 11 level if lads are not getting a do, and it's certainly not right at over 60s cricket.

Rash -: Well, no, and it's,  I'm sure our listeners there may be quite a few of them sitting on the edge of the seats going, do you know what? How refreshing is that to hear? And it is, but listen, you play the game like that, you're open and honest, and it's infectious. But , you know, I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. That's really, really well said.

Ian -: Thanks, Rash. And that’s just and I'm not that's just me, you know. And the Longridge Cricket Club that I was I've been involved with, like I said, when I joined Longridge as a six-year-old kid, it was a really poor side, poor club, sorry. But we've grown it now with the help of a lot of people, but obviously having the right direction and driving it. You know, we finished second in the Northern Premier League last season before. We  won the Lancashire Cup at Old Trafford against Ormskirk, who were Ormskirk, the you know national champions this year. We won that in 22. We got through the final year after. We've got a thriving club with four teams on a Saturday senior teams, two Sunday teams, about 10 or 11 junior teams, a girls' team, well, and two grounds and an amazing setup. And luckily, we're playing, I've had I've arranged the game against the touring Geelong team. You know, the Geelong team coming over from Australia, they're gonna play at Longridge on the 1st of June. But so it ‘sme and a lot of others have driven that club from being the real bottom of you know, looked down upon to now everybody goes, Oh Longridge, yeah, they're a really good club, they're a big, big club and all that. 

Well, you only do that by having people like what you've got at Longridge, myself and whatever, and lots of others who would who think about the club first and not their individuals. And that's what I found in senior cricket. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people bother about the self. I don't bother about myself. If I do, if I'm good enough, I'll I'll get in anyway. I bother about the team and the club, and you know, we've got a motto at Longridge, which we've just above the above the dressing room door. We've got a motto as we go out, and it's got the Longridge Crest, Longridge Cricket Club Crest, and it's got, it's got club first, team second, self third, and that's the motto that we've got because your club's everything. 

The team you play for as you're going out onto the park, yeah. You want and that but you're third in line to them three things, and that’s, we've got that, and I found that senior cricket, I don't think there's, I think we need to change that a bit. I'd love to be able to do it. I did it a little bit with the Lions when I was captain there last week. The lads were amazing with me, and they were so complimentary after the game and sent me so many lovely messages, and it was interesting after the game last week because I asked Charles Scholefield to lead us off.

Rash -: Yeah, yeah, he took a fourfer Charles.

Ian -: He's in good form, he's a really and he's a lovely, lovely fellow. That's the thing with the Lions. People are really, they're so lovely, and they're just bothered about the team, and it's just so refreshing. And I said to Charles, come on, mate, you're four for 20, off your pop, you know, you lead us off. And he went, no. And the other lads went, no, no, no, no, you're our captain Barty, so you take us off. And I went.  Well, I didn't want to. No, no. And I thought, flipping heck, how nice is that of the boys to want me to do that? I'd done nothing in the second innings at all, you know what I mean? I'd got 50 runs, but so that straight away makes you think, well, you're involving people and you're wanting them to do well, and then they respect you for that, don't they?

Rash -: Yeah, they certainly do. And, just a quick note on Charles. I know I saw him for the first time last summer. I was mightily, mightily impressed with him. Taking four for 28 against Scotland and unfortunately, he can't make the trip out to Toronto. I think he would have merited serious inclusion in that squad. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of people who missed out but good luck to Charles and the rest of the Lions going forward. And we'll just stay on the Lions Barts, because we've seen the progression and the Lions set up and how it's feeding into the Senior Squad. I mean you could look at the likes of Temoor Allam, Mel Dobson, Neil Brathwaite, have all been given their opportunities in the Lions and going forward, now there's a lot of chances to impress during the summer with the Lions fixtures. Obviously, Geelong coming over, Western Australia, you've got the Welsh second team, UK Indians, etc. etc.

Ian -: Yeah.

Rash -: What's your thoughts on the lions and how do you see them progressing?

Ian -: My thoughts are that it's been an absolutely wonderful idea to have an England second team, an England feeder team, or whatever you want to call it, mate. Because well, for two reasons, I don't I don't know, I don't know when it was, was it brought in last year, was it properly? Rash was it last season properly, if you will.

Rash -: Yeah, last season it was sort of formalised. It had been talked about and it'd been done in various guises, but the committee got together and decided listen, there's a big player pool here, but we need to have some structure, we need to have some content, and we need to give these players international exposure because it's a massive step up from county championship to international level. Not everybody makes it, and  some won’t. So you need to find a proving ground if you want. So it was formalised, it was structured. They had a wonderful time last year against West Indies, Australia and the USA, clean sweeping the West Indies, clean sweeping the USA, and arguably should have won two out of the three games against the Australians. So that was the thinking can we get players through if they perform well, then they've got an opportunity. I think, like you touched on, they've got an opportunity to get into that senior squad.

Ian -: Yeah, yeah. I think you're 100% right, Rash. And you can see that with what happened last summer. I think that what's really important is it's not just mate for the lads who get the opportunity to you know to play for the Lions, it's also I think for the lads who've been unfortunately left out, you can only pick 11 or 12. Yeah, and if lads are you know really got into the England team, you know, just to be jettisoned or to nothing, it's good that you can come back into the Lions and then perform well again and then get another chance with England because I think that's just as important as it is for you know the new lads coming in like I was new, because I think what we found is that I agree with you that it's a step up against some teams, right?

But it's not a step up. If I'm playing Yorkshire or I'm playing Derby, Derbyshire, for example, the two opening bowlers were excellent, and Richard Merriman got a brilliant, a brilliant 89. He's still a class, class batsman. On a tricky track, and he won the game. He won the game for them, he got an 89, no, you know, that's simple as. Now, Richard, Richard has stepped down because of age, an he's 608, he said to me, I think he's 67 or 68, whatever, but he's still an absolute class batter. So if you're gonna retire because of the age, and I get that, you know, we've got over 65s coming, we've got over 70s. But I think if you're 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, even, you know, if you get left out, you should have something to go back to because you're obviously still a good player, you've just not met the final cut. So I think in both ways, Rash, I think it's an amazing vehicle because it allows new players to come in and get the chance, and older players to go, lads who've been left out to come back into it. 

But I think what's important is obviously playing Australia, the step, the step up is massive, you know. But when we played the USA and the West Indies, obviously they weren't as nowhere near as strong were they as what we thought they were going to be, and that's not been disparaging to either nation. You know, at the end of the day, you've got to travel across the world, it costs a lot of money, and you can't expect them to have a full strength side when they're coming so far. So I get that, but I just think it's an amazing, amazing the atmosphere in the Lions. I've not been lucky enough to play in the England side yet. Hopefully, I will do one day, but I think the atmosphere's been brilliant. Jason Caunt’s been, been great as a great leader. Paul Gelder's done a fantastic job, and there's a real spirit, and I think it helps a little bit that you know playing for England is more pressure. First team, I get that. But there's been a brilliant spirit about the Lions, and that was carried on in India, mate. So the answer to your question, I just think it's fantastic that having the Lions, I think it's a brilliant, brilliant idea.

Rash -: It is, and with so much talent in the Lions squad, I just think it keeps those people in the England senior squad who maybe have been shoe in’s for the last couple of years, just looking over their shoulder a bit. And competition is what you want, and healthy competition is what you want. And then I think from my own personal view, I think it's a great initiative and long may it continue. Well, that's your that's your cricketing thing, but you're a star, you aren't you? I mean, I can't believe you're lowering yourself to come on, to come on to this. You're a broadcaster as well. Inside edge, been going a few years on BBC Radio Lancashire out on Wednesday evenings at seven o'clock, is it, Barts? Is it seven o'clock?

Ian -: Six till seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rash -: And also football commentary. So, how did those, how did those things come about? Starting with Inside Edge first.

Ian -: Yeah, to be honest, Rash, it's you know, I usual me, isn't it? You know, waffling on as always. I was very lucky, Rash, too. I was chairman of Longridge Cricket Club when we won the Palace Shield in 2017 or 2018, and  we then got promoted to the Northern Premier League. But if you win the Palace Shield, it's been a tradition for many, many years. The chairman of the club, it's his responsibility to thank the executors of the Palace Shield and all the people who volunteer to keep that club, you know, the committee members to keep that league going. But I've been to a lot of dinners, as you can imagine, over the years. I've tried I used to go to well, every one if I could. And every time you got a chairman up Rash, they always talked about how great their club was for winning the Palace Shield. And we had a great team. And I used to think, well, that's not what the remit says. It says you're agenda is to respond on behalf of the committee. Thank you, you know. 

So I thought if I ever get in that a chance of when,  if we win the league and I'm chairman, I'm gonna thank the people who the selfless people who give their time and years and years and years of time to keep the Palace Shield League going. So luckily, I got the opportunity, we won the league quite easily, won 2019 out of I was first year as chairman. We had to make one or two big decisions, which I did with James the captain and whatever else, and we had a great season, won 19 out of 22 league games. So we won the league easily. And we're driving to the dinner over at Blackpool, and there were three lads, four of us in the car, and they said, Have you got your, have you got your speech sorted, Barty? And I went, no, no, no, I'll do it off the cuff. And there's like three hundred there's 300 people at this do Rash, right? So it's a big a big dinner, yeah.

But I can't I'm no good with written stuff and reading. I've got to do it off the cuff. So I have written nothing down at all. So we're having the dinner, and then they say, right, on behalf of the you know, Ian Barton, chairman of Longridge Cricket Club. So I get up and I just did it off the cuff and I just turned it completely, mate, onto the people that like say the volunteers who run cricket clubs, but the volunteers who run the Palace Shield. Because if you don't have them, mate, you've no leadership.

Rash -: Yeah, you've got nothing. Yeah, you've got nothing.

Ian -: You know, and we complain about umpires and we complain about you know secretaries doing this or you know, whatever, you know, everybody can complain. We all we all did a bit, I know that. But it was I just thought this is my opportunity, and I just, I just laid it out basically with thanking all these selfless people at the Palace Shield and the Executive Committee, the umpires, all the people who run cricket clubs, you know, there's so many people give thousands of hours to the cricket clubs every year to keep this club go, keep the clubs going. And if we don't have them, if we don't have these volunteers now, the clubs are finished. And that's a real issue for I think for me, in the fact that so many people are taking money out of cricket clubs now, you know, the amount of players that are getting paid is absolutely and amateur cricket clubs, it's mindless, you know, it's absolutely mindless. 

And yet you've got chairmen and secretaries and everything, all the committee people and whatever else, who get nothing to keep the club going. And so yeah, I just basically went all about that. And luckily for me as well, Rash, that night a gentleman called Tom Howarth, who was, who is Mr. Longridge Cricket Club, me and Tom. Tom's a bit older than me, Tom's 80, 80 now, but 80 odd, but he was 80 at the time. And I turned it on to Tom as well because he'd been given a lifetime to Longridge Cricket Club, and he actually the following year got the lifetime award from England from the ECB for his service, yeah, services to cricket, to recreational cricket. And Tom, Tom had kept Longridge Cricket Club going before I got there, but for him it would have disappeared probably. And he go, and so I managed to turn it on to Tom and it was really emotional because we got a standing ovation off everybody in the place, and he was in tears.

And, so yeah, it was a bit and then on the back of it, basically, Radio Lancs. The, I think the sports editor or whatever was in the in the audience, so he rung me up the next day and went, Do you do that for a living? And I said, I said no, I said I just do it off the cuff. 

Rash -: Waffle, yeah, waffle

Ian -: Yeah. Yeah, waffle. So yeah, so he asked me to come in, and that that's how I got the gig, really. But he just off I'm listening to that and my passion for the game, and he said you can come and help present Inside Edge. So you know, I went and did that, mate.

Rash -: Yeah, and you haven’t looked back since. I mean this one, listeners, if you want to catch it, it's Nigel Martin. Good chat with Nige, didn't you? This week.

Ian -: What and what a what a lovely fella he is, mate. Yeah, he isn't he

Rash -: Yeah, he isn't he

Ian -: And you know what he was saying, buddy. He'll do anything to raise the profile of you know the vets cricket and amateur cricket, and you know, he's had so much time impressed on him was you know before the game last week and whatever else. But I just rang him up on Tuesday morning and said, Nige a really big favour. Andy Bayes has asked me, would you be able to come on you know Inside Edge tomorrow just to talk about you know, whatever last week and general. And Andy knew him, it's funny because Andy Bayes used to interview him when he was at Everton, when he was the goalie at Everton, and he was working at Century FM and he and they remember each other from then. But yeah, I know, and yeah, it was just brilliant and he epitomizes for me, Rash, he epitomizes what's amazing about overage cricket, you know, or seniors cricket, it's just the PR that we can get out of Nigel as well. Not, I don't mean that in a bad way, but you know, I mean it's such a great story, isn't it?

Rash -: Well, it certainly is, and I mean going back to it when I was speaking with Paul Bradley, normally the  tweets that England send out, you know, the tens of thousands and what have you. But when Nigel was included in that squad, Paul rang me up and said, You're not gonna believe this. I think on X it was over a quarter of a million. It's just ridiculous. And I know there were a lot of, I mean, I didn't make it to Seaton Carew because I wasn't driving back up the A1 after it rained out at Marton the other week. But I know there were a lot of coverage, and it's great for the for seniors cricket, it's great that Nigel’s been included, you know, it's great that you're included and you've got a voice for it, and other people, and I just think it gives them the opportunity to think, yeah. Listen, there is a pathway for us, as have you alluded to. If you're good enough, if you want to stick at it, the mental health aspect is great, the physical aspect is great, and it's a good setup, and it's gonna go hopefully forward and continue in this vein with better players coming in and more opportunities. So, yeah, I fully agree with you. So that's Inside Edge. What about your football commentary then?

Ian -: Yeah, that that was a bit lucky, really. I obviously, they employ core commentators most of the time, they're ex obviously you know, Blackburn Rovers players from when Rovers were obviously Premier League and you know, with people like Kevin Gallagher who won the Premier League, Mark Atkins, Colin Hendry, David Dunn, you know, I think really good players. But I think, I think what happened once the first gig I got, mate, you'll, this will apply to us all really. The first gig was rung up on a Tuesday by Andy Bayes, Barty, would you want to do core commentary on the Rovers? I said, Oh, come on, love to, mate. Yeah, no experience at it apart from you know watching Rovers for 50 years or whatever, longer probably. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, well, when you're looking, he said, Saturday. I said, This Saturday. I said, I look, I thought, shit, it's Plymouth. Sorry about that. It's Plymouth away.

So I said, Plymouth away. He went, yeah. Oh, I thought, all right, yeah, I get, I get why none of these boys want to go down there, yeah. So that was my first game, Plymouth Away, and I absolutely loved it, mate. It was about three years ago. I went with a lad who, Adam Cotter, who commentates on BBC Five Live and BBC TV. Adam picked me up. Yeah, it wasn't it was a nice day, right? Yeah, he picked me up at about half past five in Longridge. We drove down to Plymouth for a three o'clock kickoff and got back at one o'clock in the morning. 

Yeah, so it was a nice, nice day. But I'll tell you what, being next to people like him and you, you know, like you, you're a brilliant commentator. Adam Cotter, oh my goodness, when it from when the teams walked out, you're next to with the cans on, yeah, it was just different gravy. It was absolutely brilliant, and it was a real joy to work alongside him, you know. And then I've done a I've done a few more games. I've only done one home game, Derby County last year, and the 150th, but I've done a few done a few away games, did Sunderlan away, we won 5-1, I've done uh Bristol City away, I've done different, different away games, and it's a brilliant experience for us, particularly you know, when you're when I'm a Blackburn Rovers fan.

Rash -: You're a fan, aren't you? First and foremost, if you can't get on the on the pitch wearing the blue and white, that's the next best, I would have thought.

Ian -: It is, and it was quite funny, but because he said Andy Bayes sitting at Bristol, Bristol City away. He said, whatever you do, Barts, if we score, you don't shout. Well I see that what sorry Bristol City was my first game about six years ago, sorry, not Plymouth, Plymouth was the next one. And we got, we got a short, we got a corner after about a minute, right? Rovers never score from corners anyway. They did this intricate, intricate move where basically the lads were in quick one, two, knocked it out to the edge of the box, and a lad called Bradley Johnson who used to play for Derby. 

Rash -: Yeah, left foot.

Ian -: Left foot to remember, Bradley, yeah. Well, he absolutely laced this right into the top corner after about a minute and a half. We never score, so you can imagine what I did, yeah. So Andy, he's smacking me on the knee, you know, like no, you can't stop. So yeah, it was a bit I didn't get off to a good start, mate, because I was that shocked that Roves had scored from a corner and Bradley Johnson has scored from 25 yards.

Rash -: Now, listen, Barts, we're coming to the end of the interview, sadly. So we're asking all our guests the same five questions, but it's not the traditional five you may get asked. So if you're ready, here we go with number one. Which part of your game has actually improved with age, even if no one believes you?

Ian -: I think Rash, to be fair, because of the wickets getting better, and obviously I played on wet wickets, uncovered wickets, and really bad at Longridge and Lancashire in the 80s and 90s. I think my back foot play Rash, because I never played off the back foot, mate. I always at Longridge it always kept low, so you always went forward and you become a predominant front foot player. But as I've got older and playing on better wickets and truer bounces, and I've learnt to play a lot more off the back off the back foot.

Rash -: Certainly standing you in good stead. Number two, if your cricketing style were a vintage item, what would it be and why?

Ian -: I looked at this question and thought, I really, really don't know, mate. My cricketing style, can I come back to that right? It's gone over my head that one. 

Rash -: Yeah, you can do Ian. We’ll go on. Number three, if you could give your younger self a cricketing slap, what would it be for?

Ian -: Oh, that's an easy one for me. I was too, my passion when I was young was too much passion to win games of cricket. I was yeah, I just yeah, you just basically when you’ve still got a massive passion to win, course they have, but yeah, at times I was I was just yeah, too, too too intense when I was younger, mate. You know, I had white, just white line fever really Rash.

Yeah, you know, amount of people that I walk over that line and just become a different, different person and then get back in the bar after and afterwards. And I'm it's a lot, I'm sure hey, listen, I'm sure loads of people listening to this can relate to that as well. And as you get older, you, you're mellow. So my teammates at Lancashire think Christ he’s mellowed, I'd love to have seen him when he if he's not if he's mellow now. But yeah, that's the one thing buddy. And when I say it to me, well, it's really funny when I say that to my teammates and you know from yesteryear, who were all still really good mates of mine. We still go watching the first team, and this that and the other and they all say, and even opposition and players I’ve played against in the league team and whatever, they all go, no, that were you, Barty. So you don't want to change the way you are, but I would personally I would change the way I was.

Rash -: Okay, fair enough. Number four, which rule of cricket would you rewrite purely for the benefit of older players?

Ian -: I wouldn't rewrite. I wouldn't rewrite anything. I think it's just amazing that we can play cricket at 60 plus years old and 70 plus years old, and I love the fact massively that we don't change anything, the rules are the same, you know. I know there's walking cricket and walking football and whatever else, but I just think it's amazing that we are still playing the same game of cricket that we always did. Obviously, it's slower, we know that we appreciate that, but we don't need to change any rules because we can still play the game of cricket in the right way, and in the right way, but also with the same rules. And I just I think that's unbelievable, Rash, at our age, to be able to do that. Yeah, well change nothing.

Rash -: Well said, sir. Well said. Well, we've come to the final question. Do you want to go back to your vintage items?

Ian -: I'm still thinking about it. You're gonna tell, you're gonna, go let's go to the last one. I don't know if I can answer that because in the right one, mate.

Rash -: Okay, so complete this sentence Ian. Being over 60 in cricket means…..

Ian -:  Feeling young again, being having the opportunity to be in a dressing room full of like-minded people. It just means so, so much, and it's so, so brilliant for mental health and for caring for people in the right way. It's just it's just the best for me. The best.

Rash -: Yeah, well, well said. Well, if you can't think of one for number two, you'll start. I'm gonna say like a gramophone, you put the disc on, you wind it up, and you just let it go, and then get the full enjoyment of  what you're listening to. And that's you in a in a nutshell Barts, and you bounced in at Marton on Thursday last week it was raining and the lads there, and as soon as you came in, there was a big smile on their face. And like you said, you went round everybody and said that. And it's an infectious personality that you've got. Absolutely delighted from sitting getting trench foot, when we were in the West Midlands last September to where you've got to, mate. It's a real joy to see you break into the team. You're having a great summer, and I hope things go on for you and force your way into that England senior squad. You're more than good enough, my friend. More than good enough.

Ian -: Thank you, Rash. That's so very kind of you. I really do appreciate that. And I I really appreciate the fact you've asked me to come on the show, and I'm quite humbled by it, so thank you.

Rash -: No, you're more than welcome. Well, there you go, folks. That's our guest today, Ian Barton, Lancashire's Ian Barton, and let's add the footnote, Lion Skipper, even if it was for one match, it's one and done. Barts thanks ever so much, mate.

Ian -: You're welcome, I so hopefully see you soon, buddy.

Rash -: Yeah, you take care. Well, that's uh bye bye. Cheers.

CLOSING & THANKS

Rash -: Well that's it for this episode. My thanks to our special guest, Ian Barton, and to my colleague Harrison Burridge for all he does in promoting England and the England Lions, and thank you to Gary for his question and to Martin and Philip for their suggestions. 

Now the episode notes lists all the ways you can keep up to date on England over 60s cricket, with links to our various social media platforms, and the episode notes also contain the fan mail link, which you can use free of charge to get in touch with us, to submit a question, or get in touch with your observations and suggestions. Or you can email the show. A reminder that our email address is willowstwistpodcast at gmail.com. 

My thanks to Buzzsprout for hosting us and for the technical help and assistance of Audacity and Auphonics. Please like, share, subscribe, and review the podcast, and you can find us via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Castbox or via your usual podcast provider. 

Next time around, we'll have a round up of the3 fixtures taking place in June and preview the England and Lions matches in July, and we will also have a guest interview. Who that's is? I'm not sure as yet, and there'll be a new segment in the podcast, as I share some of my own personal highlights from commentating on England Senior cricket over the past couple of years. I've been your host, Rash Mahmood, and thank you all for listening to Willows to Wisdom, where age isn't a number, it's an advantage. So until next time, it's goodbye for me, and thank you.