Episode #4 - The First Ball

Join the England Over 60 cricket commentator, Rash Mahmood, as he talks with players, managers and those in and around the team. With previews & reviews of matches and insights from those connected with the team, everything you wanted to know about England Over 60 cricket is here.

(03-23) Rash reviews the 2 fixtures that took place in June, with England's match against Wales first up.

(10-04) The Lions took on Geelong from Australia and Rash reviews that game.

(16-34) The 3rd round of the Over65 Regional Championship took place and Rash has a summary of the results.

(25-30) There is a listener question regarding ECB funding or the lack of.

(29-52) Rash will have a quick look at the fixtures for England and the Lions in July.

(31-21) There is a new segment in the podcast, Rash's Reflections, where he takes a look back at some of his favourite moments commentating for England and the Lions.

(35-14) Special guest this time around is the co-host of The Silver Stumps Podcast Trevor Lee.

If you want to get in touch with the show, then e-mail us at willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com. Keep up to date with all that is happening by following England Over 60 Cricket on your favourite social media platform, details below -:

England 60s Cricket X – https://x.com/eng60scricket
England 60s Cricket Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/eng60scricket/
England 60s Cricket Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/england60scricket
England 60s Cricket TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@england60scricket
England 60s Cricket LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/england-over-60s-cricket-team/
England 60s Cricket YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@england60scricket
England 60s Play Cricket - https://englandseniors.play-cricket.com/home

England Over 65 Regional Championship - https://seniorscountychampionship.play-cricket.com/website/division/139754

Transcript

EPISODE  #4  TRANSCRIPT

INTRODUCTION

(00:00) Rash -: Welcome to the podcast dedicated to all things related to England over 60s cricket. These veterans of the game, custodians of its history who carry the game's past, define its present and prove that age is no barrier to brilliance.  Legends of experience, who wear the three Lions with pride  and still very much players to fear.  I'm your host, Rash Mahmood, and this is Willows to Wisdom, where cricket's wisest voices take centre stage. 

WELCOME & COMING UP

(00:37) Rash -: Hello again everyone and thank you for joining me. Now I start this episode with an apology. Little did I know that the bonus edition in which I spoke about the England World Cup Squad and the fixtures would cause both diplomatic and international incidents !!! The information I was given was from a thoroughly reliable source, and I had no idea that broadcasting it via the podcast would cause such a issue. Let me explain. 

At the time of this recording, the World Cup groups and schedules have not been published. This is due, as I understand it, to ongoing visa issues for some of the national teams. Until this is resolved, the fixtures and groups cannot be published. Now this very important fact was not passed on to me when I published the bonus episode. 

As a result, some of the movers and shakers on the International Masters Committee were fielding phone calls and receiving angrily worded e-mails, asking how England had access to the groups and fixtures before their respective nations. So, to all involved, my sincerest apologies for any inconvenience caused. Those of you out there that know me, know that I maintain the highest standards both in reporting and my conduct, so this I hope is a regrettable blip. 

Now onto other things. Well since the last episode, the weather has played a more than disruptive part in proceedings. The Lions match against the UK Indians was postponed due to rain, and the County Championship has also taken it’s fair share of hits, from matches being cancelled one week due to excessive heat, and rained off the next due to rain….the joys of a British Summer. The England Men’s Team had their ups and downs against New Zealand, and the Women’s T20 World Cup has started, oh, and there is the little matter of the Football World Cup taking place. So, much going on, and much to look forward to, so here’s what’s coming up in this episode….

(02:23) England took on Wales in a One Day International, their last International Match before the World Cup, and I’ll have the match review. The Lions were also in action, taking on the tourist side from down under in Geelong, and again I’ll review the match.

The 3rd round of the regional Over 65 championship took place, and I’ll run through the results.

I’ll preview the upcoming matches in July, there are some more of your listener questions, and there is a new segment for the podcast, Rash’s Reflections where I look back at some of my favourite moments commenting on England, and our special guest this time round is the co-host of the Silver Stumps podcast, Trevor Lee. So, lots to get through, so let’s get started.

ENGLAND v WALES MATCH REVIEW

(03:23) Rash -: Well June was relatively quiet on the seniors front, with only 2 matches taking place for England and The Lions. So, let’s start with England, who played their last domestic International match of the season, when they took on Wales at Eastnor Castle Cricket Club in Herefordshire on the 18th June. There were a couple of changes to the side originally published on social media, with Nick Gaywood and Neil Brathwaite unavailable, Steve Small returned to the team, and there was a first call up for Ian Barton, who alongside Vince Mulholland would be making his debut for the Senior side.

England won the toss and elected to bat, on a pitch that had a crumbly top surface and was tinged with green, and with muggy overhead conditions, Welsh skipper Mike Hayden would be looking to make inroads into the England top order, on a pitch that looked a tricky one to bat on, with the suggestion of variable bounce and movement off the pitch.

England opened up with the left hand right hand combination of Steve Small & Mel Hussain, and the pair made a steady if unspectacular start, dealing with some deliveries which kept low, and which also moved off the pitch, and they reached their 50 run partnership in the 11th over. The score had reached 79, when Steve Small went back to a delivery from Tony Smith, getting an edge that cannoned into his stumps. Small out for 26 in the 18th over. 

Temoor Alam was the next man in, and showed his intent from the off, and together with Mel Hussain, the pair started to score more freely. Alam brought up the England 100 with a 6 off Chris Hudson in the 23rd over, and at the halfway point, England had reached 106/1.

Further good progress was made by the England batters, and the score had reached 142 in the 29th over when Alam holed out to the only fielder in the 30m circle on the leg side. Alam out for 41. Mel Hussain reached his 50 before he was the next man out, just 4 balls later, caught off the bowling of Michael Cann. Hussain out for 53, England 144/3 in the 30th over.

The England skipper Ed Gordon Lennox and debutant Ian Barton progressed the score onto 187, when an almighty mix up between the pair, saw Gordon Lennox run out for 34, the score 187/4 in the 37th over. Steve Aston joined Barton out in the middle and the score passed the 200 run mark in the 39th over, and the England pair looked to accelerate the scoring with wickets in hand. The score reached 231 in the 43rd over, when Barton was caught by the Welsh skipper Mike Hayden off the bowling of Hudson for 34. Simon Routh joined Aston at the crease, and they scored 28 runs between them in just 2 and a half overs, to leave England on 259/5 after their 45 overs.

In reply, the Welsh team knew they could ill afford to get behind the run rate, and lose wickets early, as they had done in their 3 previous encounters with England, but history appeared to be repeating itself, with 10 overs gone, Wales had been reduced to 21/3, with Adrian Webber, Michael Cann and the Welsh skipper Mike Hayden, all being dismissed by Mark Wilson, Mel Dobson and Mel Hussain respectively. From then on, it appeared that the Welsh, and I’m really struggling to find the right words for this, seemed to just ‘down tools’, making little or no effort to progress the score. Neal Williams who opened up the batting was the 4th wicket to go in the 31st over, being LBW for 39 of 83 balls, giving Hussain another wicket. 

John Jones provided some entertainment for the crowd reaching a fine half century, before knicking off a Phil Deakin delivery, which was gratefully accepted by Simon Routh behind the stumps. Eventually, Wales completed their 45 overs, finishing on a score of 152/9, so England winning by 107 runs. Muhammad Zahid finished as England’s leading wicket taker, bagging 3 for 36, with Mark Wilson and Phil Deakin bagging a brace apiece.

This was the last full domestic international of the season for England before they take on the rigours of the World Cup in Toronto. 2 games against Scotland and Wales, have in my opinion yielded very little. England did not get a chance to bat against Scotland due to the weather, but at least a few of the new bowlers included in the squad  got some overs in. Wales, somewhat surprisingly offered very little, so in terms of England having competitive matches before the World Cup, that’s something that clearly hasn’t happened. 

Now, I had a lot of people contact me during the game, and afterwards as well. I think it’s important to get some of their feelings across in the podcast, so I will do just that. I hasten to add that these are their thoughts and views and not mine, although for what it’s worth I do think England could possibly have included some more fixtures prior to the World Cup, maybe a 3 match series against the Lions, which would no doubt be competitive, as I think the Lions are a much stronger outfit than last season. 

So to give you some idea as to what people were communicating to me, and I’m paraphrasing these comments, here’s a flavor of what was said to me -: 

England did the job they had to do, playing what was in front of them.

Well to a certain extent that’s right. But we didn’t see England under pressure, we didn’t see the new members of the squad tested thoroughly enough to see how they react. 

Here’s another one -: The Welsh game highlighted, England’s failure to finish teams off when they are in the ascendency, content to let the game drift on to it’s inevitable conclusion. 

I don’t agree 100% with this, but clearly Wales had no intention of playing attacking cricket. England, I’m sure did not set out to field under a blazing hot sun for 45 overs, but I will concede that England’s approach did lack that cutting edge. 

Finally, this comment -:

Why call up people who are not in the World Cup Squad. Surely go with the remaining players in the squad. The World Cup won’t allow for call ups during the tournament, so it would have been good to see how the squad reacted to adversity.

On this point, I think I would have to agree. You don’t have the luxury of calling up players in the World Cup, and the tournament will no doubt lead to illness and injury that disrupts the squad, so with Gaywood and Brathwaite missing, yes I think it would have been better to try and rejig the squad.

So, there are some of the thoughts of people who contacted me. What did you think of England’s performance? Do you think England’s preparation has or is good enough? Get in touch and let me know your thoughts.

All that being said, England will look to use the remaining time available to them before the World Cup to look back, reflect and gather their thoughts before they embark on their quest to be crowned World Champions.

ENGLAND LIONS v GEELONG

(10:04) Rash -: The day after the England v Wales game took place, The Lions were in action, against Geelong Seniors, a touring side from Australia, who were playing The Lions in the final game of a 3 week tour, that had seen them play a number of County sides.

The game took place at Brook Cricket Club in Surrey, a beautiful venue, and with the weather set to climb to 28 degrees and with Geelong having played the previous day against Hampshire, the match was reduced to 40 overs per side. 

England gave a debut to Scott Stratton from Sussex, and with Ian Barton and Steve Small playing for England the previous day, Nottinghamshire’s Colin Cliff and Warwickshire’s Mark Eames were drafted in to replace them.

Geelong skipper Noel Primmer won the toss and put the Lions in to bat, on a pitch that from first impressions looked to be a very good one, with a hard surface, and straw coloured, it was anticipated that it would be evenly paced, with a true bounce.

England opened the batting with Martyn Ford and Neal Jackson. 8 overs in, England had reached 30 without loss, but not without some alarms, with a couple of deliveries keeping very low, and a number of deliveries beating the outside edge of both batters, and it was Ford who was the first batter dismissed, clipping a delivery to mid wicket, where the Geelong skipper Primmer took a sharp catch. England 30/1, Ford out for 15.

Scott Stratton was the next man in, and the score had moved onto 49, when Stratton got a ball that barely reached above his ankle. The ball hit his back pad, and deflected onto his stumps, Stratton out for 10, and mightily unlucky, England 49/2.

Colin Cliff joined Jackson, and England passed the 50 run mark, but shortly after doing so, lost another wicket, this time Jackson adjudged LBW for 25, England 54/3 after 16 overs.

Mark Eames, came to the crease and with good use of footwork, started to find the boundaries, and the score was starting to move along, when Eames was given out LBW. Eames out for 16 in the 22nd over, England now 85/4.

The dismissal of Eames brought Simon Anderton to the crease, and England could ill afford to lose another wicket. Geelong sensed another breakthrough would get them on top, but it seemed like the pitch was flattening out and becoming more batter friendly, evidenced by Cliff playing some fine shots, and it was Cliff who brought up the England 100 with a boundary. England went onto the attack, as the Geelong bowlers struggled with their line and length, and possibly struggling under the blazing afternoon sun.

Cliff reached a fine half century, and with 10 overs to go, England had passed the 150 run mark. The 100 run partnership between Cliff and Anderton was reached in the 36th over. Cliff reached a fine century as England passed the 200 run mark, and he and Anderton continued to dispatch the Geelong bowlers to all parts of the ground, and on occasions, out of it. 

The score had reached 239 as England got to their final over, and after a couple of singles, Geelong got another couple of wickets, firstly Anderton out for 42, having shared a 156 run partnership with Cliff, and Lee Selfe out the very next ball, before Cliff capped a superb display by hitting the final ball of the innings for 6, to leave England on 248/6, and himself unbeaten on 127 off 85 balls, with 14 fours and 5 sixes

Special mention must go to Geelong’s Michael Limb, who bowled superbly well, and finished with figures of 7 overs, 1 maiden, 3 wickets for 28 runs.

Rob Birch and Phil Davis opened the batting for Geelong, and were generally playing very well, passing the 50 run mark, when Birch was out to an outstanding catch at slip by Chris Bowmer off the bowling of Anderton for 26, Geelong 51/1.

The Geelong skipper Primmer came to the crease and together with Davis moved the score past 100 runs, before Davis was caught by Charles Scholefield off the bowling of Lee Selfe for 48, Geelong 103/2. Geelong had 2 50 plus partnerships already in their innings, and another followed between Primmer and Andrew Barr, who put on 62 runs, before Barr was caught by Paul McKeown off the bowling of Scholefield for 11, Geelong 165/3 after 34 overs.

With 6 overs to go Geelong needed an improbable 84 runs to win, and in their pursuit of that lost 3 quick wickets, and eventually ended their innings on 186/6, losing by 62 runs.

Chris Bowmer was the pick of the Lions bowlers with figures of 8 overs, 0 maidens 3 wickets for 24 runs.

So a good run out for the Lions, with special praise going to Colin Cliff for a magnificent innings, which was paced to absolute perfection, and included some magnificent shots. And a word for the Geelong side, who were playing after a grueling schedule. The whole playing and supporting staff were an absolute pleasure to be around, and Geelong will look to return to the UK in 2 years time, and we look forward to their return. The Lions are back in action next month.

SPONSORS

(15:17) Rash -: Now it may surprise you to know, that the England Over 60 team do not receive any direct funding from the ECB. We are reliant on the goodwill of the players and the continuing support of sponsors. So, if you’d like to be involved in sponsorship, please get in touch, and we’ll pass your details onto Paul Bradley, who will be more than happy to discuss what your sponsorship will bring, and to give you an example of how far reaching England over 60’s cricket is, last year there were over 4 million clicks across the various social media platforms. Our YouTube channel had over 137,000 views, spanning some 14,000 hours of viewing in 55 countries, so the opportunities for individuals, companies and corporations to gain exposure is there for all to see. That said, our work with the over 60’ss continues due to the generous, loyal and continuing support of our main sponsors, those being Stonehill Sports, Sporta Tours, NVPlay, Kleenclad, HG Construction and The Jube. On behalf of the England Management Team and everyone connected in and around the team, thank you for your continuing support.

REGIONAL OVER 65 COMPETITION

(16:34) Rash -: The 3rd round of the Regional Over 65 competition was completed on 18th June, with 3 matches taking place.

At Countsthorpe CrIcket Club in Leicestershire, the Midlands Mavericks took on the South East Echos, with the Mavericks winning the toss and putting the Echos into bat. Nigel Gadsby and Jeremy Page opened up for the Echos, both being in tremendous batting form, but Gadsby missed out this time around, being caught out after scoring just 7 runs. The Echos 15/1 after 7 overs.

Colin Walters was the next man in, but he was also out cheaply, being clean bowled by Martin Weston for 6, the score 40/2 after 14 overs.

Si Sampat joined Page, and progressed the score upto 100 and beyond, before Sampat was bowled by Pete Howard for 51, the score 128/3. 

David Holiday joined Page, and the score passed the 150 mark, when Holiday was bowled by Tim Riley for 16, the score 151/4 after 36 overs.

Page passed his half century and looked to push on, and together with Colin Stevens the scoreboard ticked along at a very good rate, the pair putting on a 90 run partnership in 9 overs, to leave the Echos at 241/4 after 45 overs. Page carried his bat, being 103 not out at the end, and Colin Stevens 52 not out. 

In reply, well the Mavericks did not get off to the best of starts. Rob Drake was caught by Holiday off the bowling of Gary Brown for 3 in the 3rd over, and the Echos struck again in the 10th over, when Martin Chambers was bowled by Ian Bostock for 13, the Mavericks 26/2. Things didn’t get any better for the Mavericks as they lost another wicket a couple of overs later when Gary Brown had Wayne Morray adjudged LBW for 10, the Mavericks in a real hole at 28/3 after 12.5 overs.

The Mavericks needed to get some sort of foothold in the game, and the pair of of Chris Evans and Edmondson, did just that, sharing a 50 run partnership, before Evans was given out LBW for 29 off the bowling of Zahur Gitay, the score 78/4 after 24 overs. Having got themselves back into the game, the Mavericks then lost another 2 wickets quickly, with Edmondson and Tim Riley departing for 22 and 8 respectively, the Mavericks reduced to 89/6 after 28.3 overs, with the winning line looking a distant target, and despite some resistance from the lower order, particularly from Martin Downes who scored 44, the Mavericks were never really in the hunt, and finished on 181/9 off their 45 overs, the Echos winning by 60 runs.

Manawar Sultan was the pick of the Echos bowlers returning figures of 9 overs, 0 maidens, 4 wickets for 35 runs. So, a good victory for the Echos, but what happened in the other 2 games.

Well at Panteg Cricket Club, Cricket Wales took on the South East Saxons, and Cricket Wales playing a home fixture won the toss and elected to bat, and they made a disasterous start losing Nick Hatton to the 4th ball of the innings, adjudged LBW off the bowling of Keith Harsham, and with Pete Docherty retiring not out in the 8th over, Cricket Wales had reached 24.

Stuart Carpenter departed when the score was on 41after 14 overs, having scored 24, and Wales needed a partnership to get them back on track, and that’s what happened, as Mark Williams and Rob Franklin dug in, adding 59 runs, and taking the score to 100, when Rob Franklin was bowled by Ed Smith for 28 after 26.4 overs, and Wales lost a further 2 wickets relatively quickly, with Mark Williams and Danny Griffiths departing for 31 and 3 respectively, to leave them 113/5 in the 31st over.

Wales desperately needed a partnership to post a defendable score, and they got that from Stephen Hopkins and Ian Hopkins, who pushed Wales past the 150 run mark, and then some, sharing a 89 run partnership before both were dismissed in the final over of the innings, Stephen Hopkins for 43 and Ian Hopkins for 51, to leave Wales at the conclusion of their innings on 207/7. For the Saxons, Ed Smith and Andrew Stegall took 2 wickets apiece.

The Saxons started their innings very well indeed, with Andrew Stegall and Gordon Morgan sharing a 72 run opening stand, before Stegall was out, LBW for 23 after 18.3 overs. This brought Mark Shepherd to the crease, and together with Morgan, the pair put the Welsh bowling to the sword, sharing a 133 run partnership, when Shepherd was out with the score on 205 in the 40th over, and despite losing 2 more wickets, the Saxons got home finishing on 208/4 after 41 overs, winning by 6 wickets. Gordon Morgan carried his bat remaining 105 not out off 123 balls with 13 fours, the Saxons in the end running out comfortable winners.

So, onto the final game of the round, the eagerly anticipated clash between the 2 undefeated teams in the tournament, the Northern Superchargers and the South West Falcons, and what a game this was. The Superchargers won the toss and elected to bat.

The Falcons were more than aware of the powerful batting line up the Superchargers possessed and would be looking to make inroads into that powerful line up, early and often, and that’s exactly what they did, taking the wickets of Martin Watkin, Richard Merriman and Alan Lees, to leave the Superchargers on 44/3, with 2 of the 3 wickets going to Nic Hayward.

The Falcons would have been delighted with their start and looked to press home their advantage, but faced a formidable challenge, with Montie Douglas and Chris Dearden the batters out in the middle, and the tide started to turn as both batters showed why they are still so highly regarded, sharing a 120 run partnership, before Dearden was another victim for Hayward, Dearden departing for 53, the score 164/4. 

Tony Bennett dropping down the order from his usual opening position, joined Douglas, and the pair batted well, sharing a 64 run partnership, before Bennett was out for 32, and the innings completed a few balls later with a couple more runs being added to take the Superchargers score to 229/5 after their 45 overs. Montie Douglas remained 80 not out.

Nic Heyward stood out for the Falcons taking 4 wickets for 50 runs.

So, at the half way mark, the Falcons would have been well pleased with their efforts in the field. They opened their innings with Graham Bishop and Hugh Rogers who batted with purpose, sharing an opening stand of 106 before Rogers was bowled by Ian Frost for 64. The loss of that first wicket was followed the very next ball by another as Stephen Hunt was caught by Lees off the bowling of Frost. The Falcons 106/2.

Bishop was run out for 39 when the score had reached 133, and the nerves would have just strated to jangle a touch in the Falcons dressing room, and with the dismissal of Andy Taylor for 6, those nerves would be even more jangly, as the Superchargers fought back.

Calm heads were needed, and the Falcons got them in the form of Richard Graham and Anton Luiten , who steadied the Falcons innings, taking the score onto 176 before Graham was out stumped, having scored 27. 

Nick Marment joined Luiten and the pair guided the Falcons past the 200 run mark, and seemingly on course for a comfortable victory, but the Superchargers had other ideas, and when Marment was dismissed for a well crafted 31, and our guest on the show this week Trevor Lee departing for 1 soon after, the Falcons players were reeling.

As the final over arrived, the Falcons needed 10 from it, and some excellent shots by Luiten got them to needing 2 off the final ball for victory, and they got the 2 they needed thanks to Luiten, the Falcons scraping home to win by 3 wickets, in what was a magnificent game of cricket. Luiten remained 39 not out at the end. Ian Frost took 4 wickets for 49 runs for the Superchargers.

So the standing after 3 rounds of the competition see the Falcons on top, having won all 3 of their games. The Superchargers and Saxons sit 2nd and 3rd having each won 2 matches, the Echos and the Mavericks sit 4th and 5th with their sole victories, and Cricket Wales prop up the table, still seeking their first win.

So once again, this round of matches produced some wonderful cricket, with some fine individual performances, and the next round of matches are scheduled to take place on Thursday 16th July with all the games starting at midday.

At Panteg CC, Cricket Wales will take on the Eastern Echos. The Northern Superchargers face a long journey down to Maidstone, where they take on the South East Saxons at The Mote CC, and the South West Falcons will take on the Midlands Mavericks at a venue to be confirmed.

All the details of the fixtures can be found on the Play Cricket website, and I’ve included a link to the competition in the episode notes. Round 4 promises to be an exciting one.

LISTENER QUESTIONS

(25:30) Rash -: Well we’ve reached the part of the show where I hand it over to you, our listeners for your questions, and with so much to cover in this episode, we just have the one, and it’s from Clive Ogilvy from Berwick, who asks “How has the England Over 60s team managed to stay one of the world’s strongest sides despite receiving no direct ECB funding?”

Well it’s an excellent question Clive. I think it is down to a number of things. I think a major part is the rich heritage that we have here in England with regards to cricket. It’s been a popular sport, played and watched by many for years, and long may in continue to do so. I also think that being a relatively small country compared to some of the other International Teams, and with good transport links and infrastructure it’s easier for us to travel around the country playing cricket.

England Over 60s cricket thrives because it’s built on passion, professionalism, and an extraordinary volunteer culture. Despite receiving no direct ECB funding, the team has created a high‑performance environment driven by committed players, dedicated management, and loyal sponsors who believe in the value of veterans cricket. The squad trains seriously, competes fiercely, and represents the country with pride, and that collective mindset has kept England consistently among the strongest Over 60s sides in the world.

The success of the England Over 60s team comes from a unique combination of commitment, structure, and community support.Every player funds a significant portion of their own involvement, yet they prepare with the same intensity and professionalism you’d expect from much younger elite athletes. The management team, coaches, and support staff are largely volunteers who give countless hours to ensure the programme runs smoothly.

Sponsorship plays a crucial role.Without ECB funding, the team relies on generous partners who help cover essentials such as kit, travel support, and the live streaming of matches to a global audience. This backing allows the players to focus on performance while giving sponsors meaningful visibility.

With more than 3,500 registered Over 60s players and over 130 county teams, England has the deepest veterans talent pool in the world. That competitive structure feeds directly into the national side.

Above all, the team succeeds because of its culture. These are players who love the game, respect the shirt, and still have the hunger to compete at the highest level. That spirit—combined with a strong pathway and committed support network—keeps England at the forefront of international Over 60s cricket.

I hope I managed to answer that in enough detail Clive. It’s only my opinion of course, and I’m sure many of you out there listening may well have differing or additional views, so please get in touch with us and let us know your thoughts. Thank you Clive for your question, and if you want to be like Clive and get in touch with us, here’s how to do so.

CONTACT  US

(28:18) Rash -: Now here on the Willows to Wisdom podcast, we want you to be involved. If you’d like to send a question in or have a comment or observation about Over 60’s cricket, then you can get in touch a number of ways. In the episode notes, you’ll find a link to FanMail. Click on the link, it’s completely free to use , and we’ll read your message out on the show, but don’t forget to leave your name and where you are contacting us from. If hearing your voice on the podcast isn’t for you, then please send us an email, our email address is willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com, that’s willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com and that’s all one word. 

And talking about getting in touch, you can also comment or message us via the England social media platforms, and to run you through where you can find and access them, here’s the England Social Media Manager, Harrison Burridge with further details.

Harrison -:  Have you enjoyed listening to this podcast and want to keep a closer eye on the England 60’s team progress? Then open your favourite social media app and search for England 60’s cricket. You’ll be able to find the team on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Hit follow and have a front row seat to the summer’s cricket.

Rash -: Thank you Harrison. So please do folks, follow us on all the social media platforms and send us a message in via the FanMail link or indeed email to get in touch with us here at the show. We really do look forward to hearing from you.

UPCOMING FIXTURES

(29:52) Rash -: Well July sees 4 fixtures taking place. The Lions will take on the Dragons, the Welsh Second XI, in the first of 2 fixtures, the first being at St Fagans Cricket Club in Cardiff on the 9th July. This will give an opportunity for Paul Gelder the Lions manager a chance to include those players in the squad yet to have an outing. 

The Lions are back in action a week later as they take on the touring Western Australia side at the always welcoming Stratford Upon Avon Cricket Club on the 16th of July. The tourists had a very successful tour to the UK last year, and will provide the Lions with a stern test, including some players who featured for the Western Australia teams on the Ashes tour to Australia in 2024.

England have their final run out of the domestic season before embarking on their World Cup campaign, when they take on the England Over 50’s Lions at Dunmow Cricket Club in Essex, on the 24th July. The format of the game is not yet known, but I’m sure all the players in the World Cup squad will get a game in some form or another.

And the final fixture of the summer sees the Lions take on the Dragons for the 2nd time, as they square off at Brentwood Cricket Club in Essex on the 29th July as part of the Brentwood Cricket Festival.

All 3 of the Lions games will be streamed live via the England 60’s YouTube channel, and it is hoped that the England game will also be streamed, so keep checking the England Social Media for further details.

RASH’S REFLECTIONS

(31:21) Rash -: Well that rather upbeat music heralds a new segment in the podcast, where I look back at some of my favourite moments commentating on England, which I’ve called Rash’s reflections. Now I’ve been exceptionally fortunate in my time as England commentator, to be in and around the players, and to be part of some very memorable moments both here in the UK and abroad.

It’s been a wonderful experience for both myself and my wife Mel, to travel and be part of the England Seniors family, and we have some wonderful memories to look back on and I hope you enjoy them too.

So, for the first in this series, I’m going to take you back to Chennai, India for the 2024 World Cup match between England and Canada, played at the PEBL city ground on the 20th February 2024. Now I’ve chosen this match as the first one for a number of reasons. Firstly, it features one of my favourite senior players, and I make no apology for singling him out. He is simply an unbelievable talent, always plays with a smile on his face, and his fitness and agility at his age are something to marvel at. Secondly, this was a chaotic game to commentate on. On arriving at the ground, there was only 1 plug for myself, my co-commentator, the vision mixer, TV director and support staff to use!!! After much tooing and froing, myself and Akash Vignesh my co-commentator were dispatched to a building some 50 – 60 yards away from the pavilion, to commentate on our mobile phones via WhatsApp.  Now this was difficult enough, but if we moved just a couple of inches from our location, our connection dropped out, which caused a great deal of frustration, having to log back in again. Finally it highlighted the talent around in World Seniors cricket, with century makers on both sides and 2 teams fully committed to winning the game.

England batted first and scored 319/7, with Montie Douglas scoring a century. In reply, well Canada were going well, and England were just starting to toil in the afternoon sun, which was blazing down. Up steps Marcus Young, the Essex leg spinner, who was bowling to Sanjiv Choksi, and here’s what happened…….

“Well it’s not often that I’m left speechless, but ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you, Marcus Young, 70 years young, that is an unbelievable catch, you will not see one finer in any form of cricket anywhere in the world. Hit back to him, at pace, he’s going the opposite way in his delivery stride, he’s stuck out his hand, it’s an absolute blinder.”

Now hearing that commentary doesn’t do the catch justice, so I’ve included a link in the episode notes to the video clip so you can appreciate it fully. It was simply a remarkable catch, well for a number of reasons. Firstly, Marcus in his follow through was actually moving to his left and off the playing strip. Secondly, to have the presence of mind, and the ability and more importantly the agility to stop and change direction to dive full length to take a one handed catch is astounding, and third, and most importantly for me, Marcus was 70 years old, 70!!!!

It was an inspiring moment, not just for those of us who were present to watch it live, but for the thousands who watched it via YouTube. Marcus went on to take 4/49 in that game, and was outstanding in the tournament.

He’s since moved on into the Over 70’s and was a key player in the 70’s winning the World Cup last summer and also being part of the side that not only defended their title down under, but also beat the Australians in their own back yard to win the Silver Ashes.

Now I still watch the video clip from time to time, and still shake my head and marvel at what I saw that day at the PEBL City Ground.

So, that’s my first reflection, and there are so many more that I could have started this series with, but I think this deserves it’s place at the top of the list. 

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxYWfMcyiIlwFDGys4KDFch4ru7iw2fP_R?app=desktop&cbrd=1

TREVOR LEE INTERVIEW

(35:14) Rash -: Well, my guest on the podcast this time around is a presenter, businessman, event compare, coach, commentator, author and podcast host. Goodness knows how he fits the time to do all of those things. He's certainly not shy in coming forward. He had a 29 year career in regional press management for the Northcliffe Group, including four and a half years in Swansea, which apparently qualifies him to play for Wales, before moving to Cornwall in 1993 for a two-year spell, which has currently turned into 33 years. He left Northcliffe when the company was sold in 2012 to run his own business consultancy, helping business people deliver presentations and sales pitches.

Now, he has a passion for event speaking, so I'm getting my bit in first, as I'm not sure I'll be getting a word in later. He's been a stalwart for the Cornwall seniors, playing over 120 first 11 matches across the 50s and 60s, and has been one of the people behind setting up the newly formed and very successful over 65 Regional Championship. Now, he continues to promote seniors cricket, not only here in the UK, but also abroad as co-host of the excellent Silver Stumps podcast in collaboration with Grant Timms which covers all things cricket-related in the 60s and 70s and also covers the international cricket scene in those age groups. It's my absolute pleasure to welcome Trevor Lee onto the Willows to Wisdom podcast. Afternoon, Trevor. 

Trevor -: Rash, thank you for that introduction. I don't know who writes them, but I need to hire them. 

Rash -: I am available for a fee. We've got so much to cover, so let's crack on. Listen, you're a man of many, many talents, but where did this love of speaking with and to people come from, because it's not for everybody.

Trevor -: No, well, I was the quiet kid at school, Rash. I know people find that hard to believe these days, but I was genuinely, and I was brought up in rural Lincolnshire. And when I was 14, I joined Wragby Young Farmers, and that was transformational because I thought, you know, my summer jobs were driving tractors. I thought I'd enhance my tractor driving skills.

Instead, much to my fantastic amusement, I learned how to public speak because they did a lot of public speaking competitions and that was transformational. So that's where it all started. Wragby Young Farmers in rural Lincolnshire. 

Rash -: Wragby Young Farmers. OK, so during your early years starting out and in the business world as you progressed through your adult life, was cricket a big part of it?

Trevor -: Well, my dad played for the local village side, Rash, you know, which was friendly cricket in those days, along with his mates. You know, it was two miles up the road. And when I was growing up, there was no junior cricket. I didn't play organised junior cricket till I was 15. And so I would tag along with my dad from the age of eight or nine. And hopefully I was always, you know, we used to meet at the pub for away games in the car park and I'd be counting all the players, hoping one wouldn't turn up and I got a game and that's, that's the only cricket I really played until I was 15. So, but I suppose cricket for me really took off when I moved to Swansea which would be about when I was about 26/27 and I took my coaching badges there and Tom Cartwright was my coach and that improved my game tremendously and suddenly you know I was scoring hundreds where I might have got 30 before and things like that so, so, that was fantastic and in those days, as I often talk to the Wales boys about it, you know, there was lots of evening league cricket. I was playing four or five games a week, you know, and amazing. So, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of how my early days in cricket interlinked for sure. Yeah, but I did. I moved to Cornwall, as you mentioned, you know, for two years, 1993, and actually stopped playing for 13 years. Didn't play a single game. Met my wife down here, kids, job, all that stuff was going on. And yeah, yeah, I only made a comeback when I was 45. So, yeah, and I'm pleased I did, really, to be honest. 

Rash -: Absolutely, and you've done remarkably well since then. Now, in the world of seniors cricket, Trevor, you're probably best known for the Silver Stumps podcast and a wonderful job that you and Grant do. Now, how did that come about?

Trevor -: Well, it's very kind of you to say so, Rash. Grant and I met in 1980. 1980, that's right. We went to a place called Norlington College in Canterbury, which doesn't exist anymore. We did a Human Movement Degree, which is a kind of sports degree. And we were the two on our course who were most keen on cricket. And we knew that somewhere over the next 40, 50 years, there was going to be a collaboration. And that kicked off in, what, the autumn of 2023 when we... I'd been podcasting for a while, so I kind of knew my way around it.

And that's how it all kicked off. And we always mention Richard Merriman because Richard was on our first two or three episodes, including from the Chennai lobby, you know, during the World Cup. And of course, you've been a great guest as well. So I don't know what our expectations were when we set off, but boy, have we had some fun. And as you rightly say, you know, we've met so many fantastic people, including yourself, who, frankly, without the podcast, we wouldn't have. Well, I certainly wouldn't have met. So it's been tremendous on that basis.

Rash -:  And well over 100 episodes now, Trevor, and still going strong. And I know we'll just take this opportunity. Young Grant had quite a serious operation. He's recuperating. But, you know, from all the listeners here on the Willows to Wisdom and the wider circle of Silver Stumps, we wish him a speedy recovery. 

Trevor -: Yeah, we do indeed. And he's making a phased return to work, Grant, through the podcast. So I don't know what that means. I need to talk to Silver Stumps HR about this, you know.

Rash -:  You're peeling grapes for him, you know. If he does listen to this, he’s just going to be rolling his eyes. Now, listen, I know you have a lot of ideas as to how to improve seniors cricket. And you did mention it on the last episode as well. Now, much to Grant's dismay. But listen, what you're saying, I think, makes a lot of sense. But just give us some of your suggestions about improving the county championship, which is obviously going to have a knock-on effect in improving what we have further down the line, the Lions and the England senior team. Because I think it's important because you do have despite what Grant says, some really, really good suggestions.

Trevor -:  Well, I've got one idea for you, Rash, which I think ticks the boxes that you've just mentioned, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people will poo-poo it, but let me explain. So this is for 60s First 11 only, okay, First Division only. So at the moment, as you know, we've got five regional groups, there's seven teams in each group now there's 35 teams so here's the idea. We turn it into, we take the top 12 across the country based on the previous two years performance and we have a premier league and they play each other once and so the season the championship season finishes at the end of July as now and then the other 23 teams because that's what there are at the moment get split 12/11 you know 12 in one north 12 south 11 south whichever way it works.

At the end of the season, at the end of the championship season, there's a trophy for winning the league. Hey, hey, because you don't get one at the moment, you know, because there is no kind of league to win, and the bottom two teams from the Premier League will be relegated for the following season. And the North and South champions go up.

And then the other innovations, Rash, are linked to this, which, again, people will push back on and say, oh, God, we can't do that. We've got one or two of these in the 65s, but not all of them. So we have three power plays instead of just one that kind of exists throughout the game. Instead of five lots of nine for bowlers, we have 11, 10, 9, 8, 7. So technically, captains are up to be a bit more thinking ahead, which I think is a good thing.

And then the other thing is that we go into the cup Rash as we do now with the top 16 in the cup. And the way that would work is the 12 in the Premier League and the top two at the end of the league season in the North and South are the 16 in the cup, and to make it very exciting, and hopefully you'll see the excitement of this, is that instead of a seeded draw, we're in Dave Murphy's front room. You're there, OK, with YouTube and a couple of celebrities. And you do a draw out the hat, you know, ball number 1, Essex, Middlesex, you know, and you do that for all the rounds.

Now, the big pushback Rash will be the travel, of course. Everyone will go, ooh, the travel. But for my mind, the reason for thinking along these lines is that you would then, if you're in the Premier League, you'd get a great game of cricket every single week. Because no disrespect to some of the groups, but I think the South West group's pretty strong. The South is obviously very strong. But some of the others, you can almost predict at the start of the season who's going to be the top two, top three, and it's very rare that changes. I know Derbyshire beat Lancashire earlier this season in the north, but normally Yorkshire and Lancashire very rarely lose a game in the group. But instead of playing some of those teams, they'll be playing Kent, Essex, ourselves, Gloucestershire, whatever it might be, Warwickshire. So there we go. There's an idea. But I think that people are pushed back on the travel, but they need to get their heads around the fact that there's still a lot of travelling going on anyway. It might be a bit more, but, yeah, we'll see. Anyway, there's the idea for improving it. What do you think? 

Rash -: Yeah, I like it on its merits. I do think, I mean, it's a very robust county championship, Trevor, as we know. But you're right in what you say. I mean, the conspiracy theorists will be out again. Yorkshire didn't play Lancashire again. So I think that's, I think they've only played each other three times in 11 years or something daft like that. But to have to have a Premier League the jeopardy as well of course so you know if you're not having a good season you're going to get relegated I like it myself I do think there's going to be pushback for the very reason. I don't think people will object to it but for the very reason of travel and I think that's it's always going to be a sticking point but yeah very good anything else.

Trevor -: Well I've got yeah I mean you asked in one of your questions later on is about is about rules so I'll pop in with that. So let's get rid of leg side wides as well in division one because as a bowler I mean, it really came home to me Rash. I played against, who'd i play Wiltshire at Falmouth recently on a turning wicket. I was actually turning the ball quite a lot. My third over I took two wickets but the first two balls were wides, they'd both pitched on off stump gone across the batsman down the leg side.

Rash -: Profile wides. That to me is not a wide. Nick Gaywood mentioned it, I think, on the first episode of this podcast. He was very much against it and said, yeah, profile-wise, it's fine. If you're getting a ball that turns, you're getting penalised for bowling a decent delivery.

Trevor -: But if everything that goes past the bat down the leg side is wide, then that balls are wide. So I think the umpiring standard is good enough in Division 1 at the 60s not to worry about them being inconsistent. And I think that's why the rule is there. So to me, it takes a third of the way. Because if I could bowl off spin without leg side wide, I'd have a leg slip, a leg gully, and I've got a good keeper now. So I'd be bowling for leg side stumpings as well. Of course. It's a bit like batters any runs behind the wicket runs don't count.

In a sense, because you're forced to bowl a line that you don't, you know, that takes away a bit of imagination. And, you know, I'll bowl for leg side stumpings, knowing that if I don't get a stumping, I'm automatically conceding a run and another ball. So, you know, it cuts it out a bit. So anyway, there we go. That's the other one. That's the other one, I think. Just for Division 1 60s as a trial. 257 leg side wides two weeks ago in Division 1 and 11 no balls.

Now, I know that some of those wides may well have been multiple wides, you know, a ball that went through and they took two or three. But nevertheless, and it's prolonging the game Rash. Some of the batsmen are not even going after a ball that's wide because it's risky because you could get out. You just let it go and click the run. So, I think that's got more chance of getting through than my Premier League idea, but I think people need to think about it logically and from a full cricketing point of view and then make a decision. But, yeah, that would be my other one.

Rash -:  Well, I look forward to getting your invite from the rules committee. 

Trevor -: They love me. We need innovation. 

Rash -: As I said, we have a very, very robust county championship. It's a grind. It's a slog. And anything that's going to improve it, I think they need to be looking at it. Well, let's move on then, Trevor. Listen, Cornwall continued to improve in the county championship and you had an absolutely stellar season last year. Now, how pleasing, not just for yourself, but for the competition as a whole, was it to have none of the so-called big guns at the latter stages of the competition? And do you feel this is something that will continue as more players take up the chance to play 60s cricket? Moving on now from the 50s, younger, fitter, it's becoming a good old test.

Trevor -: Well, I hope so, Rash. I mean, there are 35 counties. There's no reason why any of them can't, you know, make progress and have a run to the final like we did. Absolutely. I think it comes down to the infrastructure of the county. I mean, when I first played for Cornwall in the 50s back in 2011, you know, I think I got 70 odd opening the batting in my first game. We won the game. We didn't win another game for two years. We were the whipping boys.

And I was very lucky to captain the side in 2015 that we got to the national semi-final out of nowhere. We'd never hardly been in the knockouts ever before. And that prompted a second 11 and then revitalisation of our 60s. And now we've got seven sides instead of one. I mean, crikey, when I first played for Cornwall, if you owned your own bat and you were still alive, you were in the team. 

That's basically how it was. And so there's no reason why other counties can't follow at that. But you have to have the drivers. You have to have people driving it, making it happen. I mean, we've got a management team here now of about 18 people, I think. And that doesn't include me. I'm no longer part of it. So you need that infrastructure. And if you are a county with one bloke running everything and you've got money on the mantelpiece and you're doing selection by telephone calls or email even, you're not going to get the attraction of the players. And what we found, you know, is that you get a great player coming into your side and the other players he knows, oh, Ian Bishop's playing for the 50s. I need to play with him. I used to play with him in the Premier League, that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. That's to me is how it works. But it was great to get to the final. We were off our game in the final, unfortunately, but hey-ho, you know, we got to the final. We are the champions of England still.

Rash -: Absolutely. I mean, it's good to the likes of this year with Nottinghamshire and JC driving that and Leicestershire, Oxfordshire having a great season. I think they had their first defeat last week, but it's just as a whole, I think it was really good for the competition. I mean, I was at the Yorkshire-Gloucestershire game where, I don't know how Yorkshire threw that away. You know, 160-odd for no wicket and then just a complete collapse. But, it was great cricket and it was great to see that semi-final line-up, for me personally. And I think more and more teams, like you say, getting people progressing through, I think the county championship is a real test and you've got to be on your game every single time. You can't take anything for granted. 

Trevor -: Absolutely. 

Rash -: Okay. Right, now then turning to the international scene. Now, England have now got a structure in place for identifying and promoting talent by the England Lions. Now, I've asked all my guests on this and it's been probably the same answer all the way through. But what are your thoughts on the England Lions? 

Trevor -: I think it's a great idea having an England Lions set up. I'm not sure I fully understand what the full purpose of it is. And I think there's a bit of misunderstanding still amongst the ranks. OK, so let's assume that it's there to develop players for the 60s first team, if you like, for want of a better term, which I think I think it should be and therefore, you know, if you think about it, Rash, if you're playing test cricket and you're in the England Lions equivalent at that level, then you could get in there 18, 19 and you might make the test side at 21, 22, three or four years later. Well, frankly, if you're in the Lions now, you haven't got three or four years to make the main side because you'd be too old, you know, because people have come in. So here's a radical idea. Well, not radical, but I think worth thinking about.

So my thought is, I mean, I looked at the squad this year and I'm not going to talk about individuals. That'd be totally unfair. But there's 26 players in that squad. And as you well know, several of those have played for the England main team and chances are aren't going to play again for the England main team. One or two, maybe. So the question is, which is what people at the grassroots level of 60s cricket are asking, why are they in the lineup still?

What's the point of that? What are they doing there? And no disrespect to Jason, but these are 60-year-old cricketers. My view is the Lions should be captained by the next potential England captain, who's not made the squad at the moment. So here we go. 14-man squad for home series, two reserves, and everybody's either aged 58, 59 or 60. 

Rash -: Interesting. Interesting.

Trevor -: Because if you haven't made the England main team by the time you're 62, chances are you're not going to make it, frankly. You could be in at 62 and stay till you're 65 because you're good enough, fair enough. So let's get all these 58, 59, 60 year olds and let's get them some good competitive matches. Because the other thing about the Lions, Rash, is, you know, I don't think, you know, you know that they nearly beat Australia a couple of times last year.

Apart from that, let's face it, frankly, the games they're getting aren't really testing them. No disrespect to the organisers, but I went to see the Lions play near Gloucestershire on my way to Thame last year for the England-Australia game. And the Lions are playing the Wales second team. Yep. So there we go. I'll throw that one in the mix and leave it with everybody to ponder.

Rash -: Yeah, I think it is difficult, but I know from speaking to the great and the good that the Australians, the New Zealanders, the Indians, to some extent the Pakistanis and the South Africans as well, along with our cousins across the pond in Canada and USA, they're looking to have a similar structure to us in terms of the Lions, so there may be more scope for international cricket or international tournaments, and I know that's been muted for next year, but yeah, I don't disagree with what you're saying. It is a bit confusing, but on the flip side, we saw last year people like Mel Dobson, Timor Alam, Neil Brathwaite perform very, very well for the Lions and they held their own in that wonderful summer series against Australia and against the West Indies and the USA. You mentioned age there, Trevor, which brings me on very, very nicely to the over 65s. Now, you were a driver of this. 

It's been an excellent championship. Three rounds completed. Some wonderful, wonderful cricket. And the top of the table clash the other day with the Southwest Falcons against the Northern Superchargers. And the Falcons coming out on top. And you had a hand in that. 

Trevor -:Not much of a hand, but I had a hand. 

Rash -: When I spoke to Dave Murphy at Littleborough, he was just so enthused about it. I know it's been a lot of work. And you were the driver behind it, or one of the drivers. Just tell us what the thinking was behind it when you first got involved and how pleased are you that you finally managed to get it off the ground?

Trevor -: Well, I know Dave and his gang were talking about a 65s week last year, the first week in August, get teams from all the regions. So I put my hand up and I got a hold of Graham Bishop from Somerset and said, come on, Bish, let's take the charge on the Southwest. So I contacted Dave, who I knew, but not as well as I know now, and said, you know, we'll do this for the Southwest. And then, of course, no one else really wanted, and then it became too big a commitment for that time. So it was it sort of folded so we went ahead did our own two day two innings game which is great playing two day cricket by the way um and then uh i said to Dave well look I'm happy to you know get something off the ground but i don't think a week will work because you've tried that model and you know let's go to one game of one game a month and so I kind of rounded up five chiefs plus Pete Doherty who's already in position in Wales and we've got a very prominent WhatsApp group there's great interaction between all of them and they're the guys who are making it happen those chiefs and whoever they are they're all big personalities and it's great and to me, you know, I tell you what, Rash, playing at Nottingham last week against the likes of, you know, Martin Watkin and Noddy Dearden and Monty Douglas and, you know, and who's Alan Lees as well? You know, all those guys. It was fantastic. It was one of the highlights of my career, frankly.

And, you know, it was and just to play Richard Merriman, of course, just to play alongside those guys was, you know, on the same field as them. It was brilliant. So I'm glad to hear that people like the concept and, and yeah, so watch this space. So I think, you know, if it comes back next year, maybe as a, you know, as a three day event, maybe we'll do a T20 tournament over three days sometime in the calendar and in a central location and have a T20 65 tournament alongside the monthly games as well.

But who knows? So we'll see. But thank you. It's kind of you to say that. But yeah, it's been great fun. And I'm happy to keep going until someone else will pick up the button, so to speak.

Rash -: Well, I think it's more than good fun. It's really enthused people. And those people at 63, 64, 65, there's a big difference playing when you're 65 against somebody who's 60. It's just giving these players another pathway. With the added incentive, of course, that come next year in Sri Lanka, I think it's February time, there's going to be an international competition. I think it's six or eight teams in the over 65 age group.

Not officially a World Cup, but it's going to be an international competition on that standing, which just, I think, is magnificent and gives people a chance to progress. And long may it continue. Listen, the first three rounds of the regional championship have been outstanding. It's been a great pleasure, you know, doing the match reports for it and doing the reviews and actually going to Littleborough. So long may it continue. Yeah.

Trevor -: And thank you for the coverage you've given it on this podcast. That's much appreciated. 

Rash -: Not a problem. Now, listen, it's the World Cup in Toronto in August. Now, everyone's got an opinion about the 16 players selected, and you're not shy, Trevor. So, listen, let's hear yours, your thoughts on the 16-person squad, with the caveat, of course, that we've had a late change in Paul Radage. You may or may not be aware of that.

Paul had a gallbladder operation. He's been advised to rest and recuperate, and we send our best to Paul. I saw him at Eastnor Castle last Thursday. Ian Barton replaces him. He scored another century this week, didn't he, Barts? 

Trevor -: Yeah. Well, I met Ian Barton at Eastnor when I went to a Lions game. I don't think you were there, Rash. 

Rash -: It was the USA series, Trev, weren't it? 

Trevor -: With a bit of stuff. And I had a good chat with Ian. I'd never met him before. And he immediately struck me as the sort of guy I'd want in my team.

Rash -: Yeah.

Trevor -: You know, because he's not, you know, I'm sure not everybody gets on with him. I'm sure he's that sort of character and I'm sure he won't mind me saying that. But for me, you know, I'd want him in my team. So, but what I did notice, Rash, that I don't know when this recording is going live, but the last recording that's live at the moment for this podcast featured Ian Barton.

So I'm wondering if there's a pattern emerging here and whether I should start thinking about getting my diary clear. Because clearly coming on your podcast got him in the World Cup squad. 

Rash -: No, I certainly don't have that influence, I can tell you. But listen, it was great to see, because he made his debut, as you say, Trevor, at Eastnor last year for the Lions against the USA. 

How do you think England will do in the World Cup? They're one of the, obviously, in the top four teams in the world, along with Australia, Pakistan, New Zealand. How do you think they'll do? 

Trevor -: I'm hoping they'll win the World Cup, Rash. I really am. I think Edward will be keen to win the World Cup. I think Ed and Mel have put together a great squad for the tournament because, you know, you've got to take into account the grounds as well as the conditions in terms of temperature and all that sort of stuff. And, of course, you want people who fit into the squad, don't you, and all that. It looks like, to me, they've got a... I don't know everybody that well in some of the names, but to me, it looks like a balanced squad. And, you know, God, it's easy being an armchair selector, isn't it? I mean, but there are so many good players now who could qualify for that squad. I know one or two weren't available for various reasons, but hey, come on guys, let's get behind them and let's hope that, you know, they can do it and win the trophy because it does feel as though, you know, it could come down to the one game in the final, hopefully against Australia. You know, that's where they will pan out despite the, you know, the growth, but Australia have got, as you know, a series coming up in New Zealand in July as a bit of a warm up. So that'll be a bit of a feel for where New Zealand are. But yeah, come on, England. I think they'll win it. 

Rash -: Well said sir. Right, so we're coming to the end of the interview, sadly. So we're asking all our guests the same five questions, but it's not the traditional five that you may get asked. So if you're ready, we'll go with number one.

Which part of your game has actually improved with age, even if no one believes you? 

Trevor -: Well, I think I've always been a good reader of the game. You know, I think I've always been good tactically and strategic wise and, you know, always sort of, you know, helping the captain. But I have to say my bowling, because I had some bowling coaching last winter for the first time in about 40 years. And I've got a change of action bowling. And yeah, so I think my bowling.

Rash -: Yeah, a couple of wickets last week, wasn't it?

Trevor -: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm bowling regularly on Saturdays as well, playing a higher level of Saturday cricket than I've done for, what, 10, 12 years. So opening the batting and bowling a lot. So, yeah, it's been great. It's been really good, actually. Yeah, really good. 

Rash -: Excellent. Now, number two, if your cricketing style were a vintage item, what would it be and why? 

Trevor -: I think I would be Headingley 1981, Rash.

Rash -:  Oh, right. 

Trevor -: Because I think my cricketing style is we can always win the game. No matter what the situation is, no matter how dire it looks, I'm convinced we can win the game. And I'm always gutted when we lose a game, even though it's obvious we're going to. So I think it would be that. I think, you know, Headingley, 1981, 500 to one against, you know, Botham's, Ashes, all that stuff. But I think that is me, you know, that I think I'm always convinced we can win,  and I'm always convinced I can win the game as well, personally. I'll either get the runs or take the wickets or whatever it might be. So that would be it. 

Rash -: OK, number three. If you could give your younger self a cricketing slap, what would it be for? 

Trevor -: I think getting angry when I'm out. And the trouble is, Rash, it's still now. OK. I think the number of times in the last three years I've got out, stupidly. Bowlers never get me out. I always get myself out. And then I'm really angry. And I go, oh, I've had enough of this. And I'll go in the changing room. And that'll do. I'll pack it up. So I think I've packed up seniors cricket 20 times in the last three years on that basis. I need to be a bit more mature when I'm out, I think, would be my cricketing slap. But I suppose it shows I'm still very competitive and still very passionate about it.

Rash -: Yeah, absolutely. Right, number four. And I think you've touched on this, but we'll ask you if you've got any other thoughts. Which rule of cricket would you rewrite purely for the benefit of older players? 

Trevor -: Well, I mentioned the leg side wide Rash, and I know that's a kind of rule that's particularly about cricket. So I did think about, you know, the kind of general... Because, of course, rules of cricket vary all over the place. You know, the test match rules are different to the one-day rules, different to the 50s rules, different to the 60s rules, the under-13 rules. So yeah, I think for older players, it would be, it would be the kind of leg side wide as much as anything. And also not allowed to get me out would be another rule. With a terrible ball, with a terrible ball. If you get me out with a good ball, I don't mind. But don't get me out with a terrible ball that I've hit about three weeks too early.

Rash -: It's like Mr Bradley saying he only appeals when it's out. Okay. Fifth and final question. Complete this sentence, Trevor. Being over 60 in cricket means? 

Trevor -: Being over 60 in cricket means, Rash, I've still got my best cricket ahead of me. 

Rash -: Well said. Well said. Absolutely fantastic. Well, listen, Trevor, it's been an absolute joy speaking to you. Continue the great work that you do on The Silver Stumps. I know give it a listen folks, if you haven't already listened to it, please do. Well over 100 episodes now. Myself and my wife, Mel, have been fortunate enough to be on a couple of times, but it really takes a lot of work covering the whole of the 60s and the 70s and the international sphere and other guests on there as well, broadcasters, commentators, authors, etc. So, the next episode is out. When is it out? Is it this Friday? 

Trevor -: Friday the 26th of June, Rash. Yeah, we'll be going live with an episode then.

Rash -:  Super stuff. Well, give my best to Grant. I wish him a speedy recovery. I'd like to hear him on the podcast again. But for now, from myself, thank you for being on Willows to Wisdom, Trevor. 

Trevor -: Thank you, Rash. I really appreciate it. Keep, keep the momentum going with your podcast. You're doing a fantastic job.

Rash -: That's very kind, sir. Cheers, Trev. Thank you.

CLOSING & THANKYOU

(01:04:57) Rash -: Well that’s it for this episode folks, I hope you enjoyed it. My thanks to Trevor Lee for being our special guest, and to Clive for his question. It’s also a big thankyou to Harrison Burridge for all he does to promote England & The Lions via all the social media platforms.

Now the episode notes lists all the ways you can keep up to date on England over 60s cricket, with links to our various social media platforms, and the episode notes also contain the fan mail link, which you can use free of charge to get in touch with us, to submit a question, or get in touch with your observations and suggestions. Or you can email the show. A reminder that our email address is willowstwistpodcast at gmail.com. 

My thanks to Buzzsprout for hosting us and for the technical help and assistance of Audacity and Auphonics. 

Please like, share, subscribe, and review the podcast, and you can find us via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Castbox or via your usual podcast provider. 

Next time around, we'll have a round-up of the fixtures taking place for the Lions & England in July. There will be another listener question, and there will also be a round-up of the 4th round of the Regional over 65 Regional Championship. There will be another in the series of Rash’s reflections, and there will be another guest interview.

I've been your host, Rash Mahmood, and thank you all for listening to Willows to Wisdom, where age isn't a number, it's an advantage. So until next time, it's goodbye for me, and thank you.