Episode #5 - Off the mark

Join Rash for another bumper episode, where he covers all things related to England Seniors Cricket.

(03:20) With the World Cup just around the corner, Rash has an update on the fixtures and schedule, and has an update on some notable changes to the initial squad.

(07:20) The England Lions took on the The Dragons, the Welsh 2nd XI at St Fagan's Cricket Club, and Rash has the match review.

(15:52) The shy, retiring tourists from Western Australia, The Dugites were touring again for the 3rd year running, and they took on the England Lions at Stratford, and Rash was there to commentate and provide the match review.

(26:04) There is another listener question about Women's Senior cricket, and there was a huge response to Trevor Lee's comments about the County Championship and the Lions, which Rash addresses.

(37:25) Dunmow Cricket Club in Essex was the venue for England's last outing before the World Cup, where they took on the England Over 50 Lions team, and Rash was there to cover the game and has the match review. 

(45:12) On the same day the England side played at Dunmow, the Lions were also in action against Scotland, and there is a quick summary of the game.

(46:51) The 4th round of the Regional over 65 competition took place, and Rash, reviews the 3 matches played, including a belter of a game where over 500 runs were scored.

(54:34) In Rash's Reflections, he takes you back to the 2nd ODI last summer between England and Australia at Fairburn cricket club, where a magnificent spell of seam bowling helped England to victory.

(57:59) Rash's guest this time round is the writer, broadcaster, commentator and activist Annie Chave, who talks about County Cricket, Franchise Cricket and a host of other topics.

(01:29:40) Closing & thanks.

If you want to get in touch with the show, then e-mail us at willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com. Keep up to date with all that is happening by following England Over 60 Cricket on your favourite social media platform, details below -:

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IMC Over 60 World Cu...

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EPISODE  #5  TRANSCRIPT

INTRODUCTION

(00:00) Rash -: Welcome to the podcast dedicated to all things related to England over 60s cricket. These veterans of the game, custodians of its history who carry the game's past, define its present and prove that age is no barrier to brilliance.  Legends of experience, who wear the three Lions with pride  and still very much players to fear.  I'm your host, Rash Mahmood, and this is Willows to Wisdom, where cricket's wisest voices take centre stage. 

WELCOME & COMING UP

(00:37) Rash -: Hello again everyone and thank you for joining me. As the over 60 World Cup draws nearer, final preparations are in place for the England Squad. This month saw them play just the one game against the England Lions Over 50 team. The Lions were also in action this month with games against the Welsh Dragons, Scotland and the tourists from Western Australia.

The County Championship was once again beset by weather issues, with extreme heat and rain causing havoc with the fixtures.

The England Men’s Team have moved on from Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum, and after an eventful Test Series against New Zealand, brought some joy back to England supporters, by beating the mighty India in a T20 series. The England Women got to the final of the Womens T20 World Cup, only to be beaten by the hughly impressive Australians, and created history by playing India at Lords in a Test Match. 

On a personal note we have had our first download in South America recently, Chile to be precise, so thank you to that person for doing so, which brings the total number of countries where the podcast has been downloaded to 27, so thank you to each and every one of you for doing so and supporting the podcast. I hope that we are able to pass the 1000 total downloads mark with this episode.

(01:59) Rash -: So, as always, lots going on, lots to reflect on and lots to look forward to, so here’s what’s on the show this time around.

The World Cup fixtures have finally been released, and we’ll have a quick update, as well as looking at some changes to the squad that was initially published.

England took on the England Over 50 Lions at Dunmow Cricket Club in Essex, their final match before departing for Toronto, and I’ll have the match review.

The Lions were busy this month playing 3 fixtures, against the Welsh Dragons, a game against Scotland, and a game against our friends and visitors from Western Australia, and I’ll have a quick summary of the results.

The 4th round of the over 65 Regional Competition was completed, and I’ll run through the results.

There is another listener question, and some very interesting comments from you out there about some of the things our guest last time round Trevor Lee had to say about the Lions and the County Championship, and there are some pretty strong opinions as well.

There is another lookback in Rash’s reflections and our very special guest this time on the podcast is the writer, commentator and all round cricket fanatic Annie Chave.

So, lots to get through, so let’s get started.

WORLD CUP

(03:20) Rash -: Well after my faux pas, a couple of episodes ago, the final schedule for the World Cup has been confirmed. England face 6 opponents in their group, and there have been some changes to the squad since it was first published. Here’s the current state of play.

England will play a warm up match against Canada on the 7th August, before kicking off their campaign on 10th August against Scotland. Following a day off, England play back to back games on 12th & 13th August against the West Indies & Zimbabwe respectively.

The USA are the opponents on the 15th August, before England take on India on the 17th August, before finishing their group games against New Zealand on the 18th August.

There have been 3 changes to the squad since it was first published. The Cheshire opener Paul Radage has been advised by doctors not to travel, following recent surgery. His place will be taken by Lancashire’s Ian Barton, a more than capable replacement, who is scoring runs for fun in the Championship.

Steve Aston is the other member of the initial squad, now not going. Steve suffered a broken arm whilst batting for his Saturday team, and he will be replaced by Nottinghamshire’s Colin Cliff, who showed what he was capable of, by scoring 127 not out for the Lions in their recent game against Geelong.

Nick Gaywood is also now not able to travel with the squad. Nick who recently scored 166 for Yorkshire in the County Championship, suffered a rib injury and is unable to take part in the tournament. Nick is, and has been one of the finest batters in Seniors cricket, and moving down the order from his traditional opener spot has served England well. His batting, and indeed his bowling which he is doing more of are going to be missed. His place will be taken by his Yorkshire teammate Neil Jackson, a very talented and gifted left handed batsman, and there’s more on Jackson later on in the podcast. 

The loss of Radage, Aston and Gaywood is certainly a blow for England. Radage is an excellent batter, who can open up or come in at number 3, he is also an excellent fielder, usually patrolling the leg side boundary. His athleticism in the field as well as his batting will be a big miss for England. Barton is having some season, opening the batting for Lancashire. His combative and aggressive style of batting will serve England well.

Aston, aside from being the best stumper in Senior’s cricket is a more than useful batter as well, adept at scoring quickly either opening the innings or in the middle order. His glove work will no doubt be missed, but England are blessed to have a very deep talent pool at that position, and Kent’s Simon Routh is more than capable of stepping up to take the lead role at that position, potentially being backed up by Cliff.

Gaywood’s absence will certainly be felt. For many years he opened the batting with Richard Merriman, giving England a solid opening platform. His recent batting has been down the order, where his ability to score runs very quickly has been an asset. Jackson is a left hander who plays with calmness and is astute at scoring quickly. He gains just reward for a string of good performances for Yorkshire, but he also played very well out in India for the Lions early this year.

To Ian, Colin and Neal, congratulations and good luck, and to Paul, Steve and Nick rest up, recover and come back stronger. 

Now you can keep up to date with all the World Cup news by following the England 60’s cricket Facebook page, as well as following them on the other social media platforms.

ENGLAND LIONS v THE DRAGONS

(07:20) Rash -: The England Lions continued their summer campaign with a trip to St Fagan's Cricket Club on the outskirts of Cardiff on the 9th July to take on the Dragons, the Welsh 2nd XI. Jason Caunt, the Lions skipper, won the toss and had no hesitation in opting to bat on a pitch that certainly looked, from a visual standpoint, to be a very good one.

Due to the heat, the match was reduced to 40 overs per side. England opened up with Steve Small and Graeme Shaw, and both helped themselves to boundaries in the first over. The England pair scored freely, reaching 27 when Small was bowled by Michael Davies for six. Mark Eames joined Shaw, and was watchful initially, as Shaw continued to play some fine shots.

England passed the 50 run mark after 8 overs and added a further run when Shaw was trapped LBW again by Davies England 51 for 2 after 9.3 overs, Shaw out for 34. Neil Jackson was the next batter in and at the 15 over mark England had reached 82 for 2 and were looking well set to post a big score.

The introduction of Pete Doyle paid dividends for Wales as he got Mark Eames to prod forward to a length delivery, the ball taking the edge of Eames bat, which was well caught by Ian Hopkins, the Welsh Stumper. Eames out for 22, England 92 for 3, after 17.4 overs.

Martin Ford joined Jackson, and it was Jackson who looked to wrestle back the initiative, hitting back-to-back boundaries off Doyle's first over after drinks, scoring 14 from it, and together with Ford, the pair started to impose themselves on the Welsh bowlers, with Jackson bringing up a fine half-century with a magnificent drive through the covers, and he meted out more punishment to Doyle in the 26th over, hitting him for four consecutive fours to bring up the 50-run partnership between himself and Ford of 49 balls in a little over half an hour, and got England past the 150-run mark in doing so. However, with the addition of just one more run, Ford was out trying to sweep Paul Webb, and he was a judged LBW for 19, England 151 for 4, after 26.4 overs.

Simon Anderton came out to join Jackson and was also positive from the off, and with 10 overs to go, England had reached 169/4. Jackson brought up the England 200 and the 50-run partnership between himself and Anderton in the 36th over with yet another boundary, and he reached a fine century, dispatching the first ball of the next over to the cover point boundary for four, reaching his century off 89 balls, and with one over to go, England had reached 242. Kevin Bowen trapped Anderton LBW off the second ball of his over. Anderton out for 38 with four fours. And Bowen struck again a couple of deliveries later. Clean bowling Jackson. Jackson's final score, 113 of 98 balls came with 18 boundaries. 

Three further runs were added to leave England on 247/6 after their 40 overs. Pick of the bowlers for the Welsh Dragons was Michael Davies, who returned figures of eight overs, no maidens, two wickets for 36. So at the halfway point, England would have been satisfied with their total, knowing that from the off, the Dragons would have to go along at over six runs per over.

Now the Dragons opened their innings with Arvind Aswani and Adrian Webber, with England opening their bowling with Kevin Watson and Jason Caunt. Eight overs in, it was looking good for Wales as they'd reached 40 without loss, with little or no alarm. However, it was Watson who made the breakthrough for England, trapping Aswani LBW with the final delivery of the ninth over. Aswani out for 11, the Dragons 41 for 1.

Andy McLeod joined Webber, and the score passed the 50 run mark. Charles Scholefield and Razi Ahmed replaced Watson and Caunt, and despite the odd boundary being scored, the Dragons' effort saw the run rate rise to 7.45 runs per over. Webber was stumped by Joyce off the bowling of Ahmed, Webber out for 38, with four fours and a six, the Dragons 84 for two after 18.1 overs.

Johnny Jones joined McLeod, fresh from his half-century against England at Eastnor Castle a few weeks previously. But it was McLeod who started to go on to the attack, and he brought up the Dragons' 100 runs with a fine square drive. At the drinks break at 20 overs, the Dragons were sitting nicely at 103 for 2.

Now, Ahmed struck almost immediately after the drinks break. Clean bowling McLeod. McLeod out for 40, with five fours and two sixes. The Dragons 103 for three. And with that dismissal, England started to turn the screw, limiting the Dragons to very little. As the run rate climbed to over eight, and England gained reward for their bowling and fielding effort, as Scholefield trapped Jones LBW in the middle of the 24th over. Jones out for 10, the Dragons 109 for 4, and Scholefield finished his spell of 8 overs by dismissing Williams, with a beautiful googly a couple of balls later, pitching on middle and leg and hitting the off stump. Williams out for 3, the Dragons really up against it now, having reached 110 for 5, having lost 3 wickets for 7 runs in 4 overs.

Paul Webb was the next man in, but he was yet another victim for Razi Ahmed, who had him caught behind by Joyce for one. The Dragons 113 for six, Ahmed getting his third wicket of the innings.

The match effectively was over at this point, the only question being could the Lions run through the Dragons' remaining batters quickly, something the senior team were not able to do at Eastnor Castle a few weeks ago. Well, the Lions did indeed make light work of the task, taking the remaining four wickets for the addition of 33 runs. The Dragons finished their innings on 146 all-out after 33.1 overs, the Lions winning the match by 108 runs. The Lions, as a bowling unit, stuck to their task well with Razi Ahmed taking three wickets and Charles Scholefield bagging a brace. A special mention goes to Andy Sapey, who finished with figures of 4.1 overs, one maiden, three wickets for 19 runs. Now this was a good professional performance from the Lions. The platform was set from the off with Small and Shaw, batting confidently and looking to be aggressive. Jackson's innings was superb, and what better way to announce himself to a wider audience and show why he is being called up to the World Cup squad.

In the field, well, the Lions didn't do very much wrong at all. They were sharp in their fielding, and the bowlers bowled to their fields, and there was a real sense of everyone pulling together and encouraging each other throughout the fielding stint. Jason Caunt, as always, led the team superbly well, and there's a real sense of camaraderie and joy when the Lions play. That transmits itself out into the middle, and the Lions are a very, very enjoyable watch.

The Dragons, well, they played well in parts, but much like the Wales senior team, didn't perform to their best ability in all three phases of the game. The Lions play the touring Western Australian Dugites next at Stratford.

SPONSORS

(14:34) Rash -: Now it may surprise you to know, that the England Over 60 team do not receive any direct funding from the ECB. We are reliant on the goodwill of the players and the continuing support of sponsors. So, if you’d like to be involved in sponsorship, please get in touch, and we’ll pass your details onto Paul Bradley, who will be more than happy to discuss what your sponsorship will bring, and to give you an example of how far reaching England over 60’s cricket is, last year there were over 4 million clicks across the various social media platforms. Our YouTube channel had over 137,000 views, spanning some 14,000 hours of viewing in 55 countries, so the opportunities for individuals, companies and corporations to gain exposure is there for all to see. That said, our work with the over 60’ss continues due to the generous, loyal and continuing support of our main sponsors, those being Stonehill Sports, Sporta Tours, NVPlay, Kleenclad, HG Construction and The Jube. On behalf of the England Management Team and everyone connected in and around the team, thank you for your continuing support.

ENGLAND LIONS v WESTERN AUSTRALIA

(15: 52) Music -: 

We’re the mob from West Aussie

We’re the mighty hissing Dugites!

We play with spirit but we play to win

Batting ‘til stumps with a grin – the Dugites !

Catching, diving, cutting, hooking

Swinging, spinning, full of venom

Ten for none and score a ton

Is the way we play our cricket

We are the mighty hissing Dugites !

We are the mighty hissing Dugites !

We are the mighty hissing Dugites !

Now that folks is the anthem for the touring Western Australian Dugites Team, who were here in the UK for the 3rd consecutive year, embarking on a 15 game tour of England, before departing for a further 2 games in Malta. As you would expect from the Australians, it’s a gentle, melodic little ditty, but very catching, I wonder whether the England Management Team will consider something similar!! Anyway, on Thursday 16th July, they played their 9th game of the tour, and having faced County opposition on their tour so far, they were up against the England Lions at the beautiful Stratford Upon Avon Cricket Club. The Lions had a comfortable victory the week before against the Welsh Dragons, but the Dugites had a number of players in their squad who played against the England Senior side on the winter tour to Australia, and they would no doubt be looking to perform to their very best against International opposition. 

Lions skipper Jason Caunt, won the toss and elected to bat, and England opened up with the same opening pair as last week in Steve Small and Graham Shaw, and after a fiery and quick opening over from Rob Brierley, it was his fellow opening bowler Graham Pound who made an early breakthrough for the Dugites, clean bowling Steve Small, Small playing back in his crease to a delivery that didn’t get very high. England 5/1. A couple of overs later, England had reached 21, when Shaw was out LBW off the bowling of Brierley. Shaw out for 13. 

The Western Australian’s were bowling and fielding well, and there were a number of nervous looking faces amongst the England team. Scott Stratton and Simon Anderton were the batters out in the middle tasked with giving England some stability, and they did just that, sharing a 59 run partnership, before Stratton advanced down the pitch to a Darren Grey delivery that turned sharply, giving Graeme Tysoe the WA keeper an easy stumping. Stratton out for 32, England 80/3.

Warwickshire’s Mark Eames was the next man in, and together with Anderton, pushed the score beyond 100, and the England pair were just starting to impose themselves on the WA bowlers, when Anderton was caught by Rob Grey off the bowling of Craig Van Der Laan for 39, England 126/4.

Somerset’s Andy Sapey joined Eames in the middle and the score had reached 150, when Sapey was out, drilling a juicy Van Der Laan half volley straight back to him. Sapey out for 6, and England 150/5 after 30 overs, when drinks were taken.

Mark Eames reached his half century, and together with the new batter Lee Selfe, the pair looked to press on, but Selfe was the next batter to depart, after a brilliant piece of wicket keeping from Tysoe, who needed no invitation to whip the bails off, with Selfe just trying to drag his back foot across the popping crease. Selfe out for 8, giving Van Der Laan another wicket. England 172/6, and it was 7 wickets down just 2 balls later when Eames mistimed an attempted shot on the leg side, only to get a leading edge which was gratefully gobbled up by Van Der Laan of his own bowling. Eames out for 52 off 57 deliveries with 7 boundaries.

Calm heads were needed, and they came in the form of skipper Jason Caunt and his Nottinghamshire teammate Ian Woodall, who steered England past the 200 run mark in the 42nd over, and the score had progressed to 214 in the penultimate over  when the WA skipper Gary Green clean bowled Caunt. Caunt out for 24, England 217/8.

The first ball of the final over saw Woodall dismissed for 17 after a brilliant caught and bowled from the returning Brierley, and Kevin Watson was the final England wicket to fall with just 1 ball remaining in the innings, Watson out for 2, with England finishing on 220 all out after 44.5 overs.

There were some very impressive bowling figures from the WA men. Van Der Laan returning figures of 9 overs, 0 maidens, 4 wickets for 51 runs, and Rob Brierley, who bowled with pace and accuracy returning figures of 8.5 overs, 1 maiden, 3 wickets for 34 runs.

So at the half way mark, England were probably 20 to 30 runs short of what was expected to be a par score, however the pitch, somewhat agains expectations was proving a difficult one to bat on, with variable bounce and both movement off the seam and turn off the pitch for the batters to contend with. The run chase for the Dugites would not be easy, and as Kevin Watson stated when interviewed during the innings break, if England put the ball in the right places they would gain their rewards.

Kevin Watson opened the bowling for England, and with his fourth ball, got Rob Grey dismissed, in almost a carbon copy of Mark Eames dismissal, Grey looking to play into the leg side, getting a leading edge, and giving the simple job to Watson of catching the ball. The Dugites 2/1, and Watson buoyed by the wicket in his first over, took another one in his next, bowling an absolute beauty of a delivery to Mike Irwin, which pitched and moved off the seam clattering into the stumps. Irwin out for 2. 

The WA boys had to dig in, but England looked to press home their early successes and the score had reached 15, when they lost their 3rd wicket, as Gary Green was clean bowled by Jason Caunt, Green out for 5, and the score hadn’t advanced when Watson struck again, again bowling a wonderful delivery that had Greg Hoystead prodding forward only for the ball to leave him off the seam, get the edge, and provide  Graham Shaw at slip with a relatively simple catch. Hoystead out for 5, the WA Dugites 15/4 in the 9th over, with their victory target of 221 looking a very distant prospect. 

Rob Brierley who had bowled so well, came to the crease to join John Spillsbury, and he showed his intent from the off, playing a back foot punch shot over extra cover, before following that with a slashing square drive, both going for 4. 

Watson rather surprisingly was given a breather, and slowly but surely , the WA batters began to look far more at ease, although a couple of dropped catches by the England fielders aided their cause. The score passed the 50 run mark, and at the 20 over point, WA had reached 95/4, and by comparison, England at the same stage were 93/3, so an even contest at this stage, with WA rebuilding well. 

Brierley and Spillsbury continued to bat well, passing the 100 run mark, and also passing the 100 run partnership between themselves. England were looking a bit despondent, and needed a spark, and Caunt turned to Watson in the 26th over to provide that spark, and he did just that, clean bowling Spillsbury with his first delivery, Spillsbury out for 35, having shared a 111 partnership with Brierley, who had passed his half century, WA 126/5. Watson was on fire, and 3 balls later claimed another wicket, this time producing yet another marvelous delivery that pitched and moved off the seam, inducing the edge of Graeme Tysoe’s bat, which flew in the direction of Graham Shaw at slip who dived to his right to take a stunning catch. Tysoe out without troubling the scorers, WA 126/6.

Brierley fell in the next over, being clean bowled by Andy Sapey. Brierley out for a very entertaining 72 of 64 balls with 6 fours and 4 sixes. WA had lost 3 wickets for no runs in just 10 balls, and with Watson picking up another wicket, catching Darren Grey off his own bowling, the writing was on the wall for the WA side. Grey out for 7, WA 137/8.  Watson wasn’t finished, as he bowled a full quick delivery to Grant Elliott in his next over, the ball smashing into middle stump. Elliott out for 1, WA 145/9.

Charles Schofield took the final wicket of the WA innings, having Craig Van Der Laan caught out in the deep, Steve Small taking a very well judged catch. Van Der Laan out for 6, and WA all out for 150 after 34.2 overs, the Lions winning by 70 runs.

Kevin Watson was voted player of the match by the WA team, and Jason Caunt award the player of the match for the WA team to Rob Brierley.

This was a very entertaining game of cricket, and our thanks to Stratford Upon Avon Cricket Club for hosting. The WA Dugites continue their tour of England before departing for 2 more games in Malta, and we wish them the best of luck on their remaining tour, and look forward to seeing them again next year. 

Kevin Watson was unplayable. He bowled intelligently, and got into a rhythm early, and produced some wonderful wicket taking deliveries. He finished with what I believe are the best bowling figures in an England Lions match, 9 overs, 5 maidens, 7 wickets for 16 runs, and even Mike Palmer who was at the game supporting, and who had the previous best figures warmly applauded Watson from the field, and Watson deserves every bit of praise he gets for this performance, it was simply outstanding. 

The Lions close out their domestic summer season with a game against an invitational XI on the 29th July at Brentwood cricket club. 

LISTENER QUESTIONS

(26:04) Rash -: Well we’ve reached the part of the show where I hand it over to you, our listeners for your questions, and this time around well, we do have a question, but a number of you got in touch about some of the comments made by our guest on the last episode Trevor Lee, about his suggestions for improvements to the County Championship and his thoughts on the Lions. Such was the volume of comments from you out there, I thought I’d include some of them, and if you’re listening Trevor, get your tin hat on !!

But we start with a question from Susan Campion in Wilmslow who asks, with the success and continuing growth of the England Men’s Over 60 team, do you think that we will see a Women’s Over 60 team in the near future.

Well firstly Susan, thank you for taking the time to get in touch. The Women’s and Girls game here in England has certainly taken off over the past few years, and the recent T20 Women’s World Cup here in England highlighted the progress that has been made. However, as far as I am aware, there is no clearly defined pathway for women to be involved in a national team at the masters age groups, be that the 40’s,50’s,60’s, or 70’s.

A Women’s Over‑60s England side isn’t just a nice idea, it’s a logical next step in the evolution of senior cricket. The men’s programme has shown that when you give older players structure, competition, and visibility, the talent floods in. There’s no reason to think the same wouldn’t happen for women.

Women’s recreational cricket in England has grown sharply over the last decade, especially in the 40+ and 50+ age brackets. Many of these players have long playing histories and would jump at structured senior pathways.

The men’s programme proves the model works. The Over‑60s and Over‑70s men’s teams have shown that senior international cricket can be competitive, well‑organised, and commercially viable. That success removes a lot of the “unknowns”.

Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa have growing women’s veteran cricket communities. Once one nation formalises an Over‑60s women’s side, others tend to follow and England rarely sits still when it comes to leading the senior game, just look at the success of the regional over 65 competition, that started as a direct result of what Australia had been doing for a number of years.

The ECB’s investment in women’s pathways (from grassroots to The Hundred) signals a long‑term commitment. Senior women’s cricket fits neatly into the “lifelong participation” narrative they’ve been pushing.

Now to get to the stage that the England men are at, there’s a lot that needs to happen. Firstly, you need a pool of 40–60 women aged 58–70 playing regular competitive cricket. Some counties are close; others aren’t yet.

The men’s senior game grew because counties organised Over‑60s and Over‑70s leagues. Women’s equivalents are only just beginning to emerge.

The men’s senior programme benefits from sponsorship, livestreaming, and international tours. A women’s programme would need similar support to be sustainable.

My honest assessment Susan is that if the current growth continues, a Women’s England Over‑60s team within the next 3–6 years feels realistic. The spark for that will likely come from a county or regional initiative that snowballs into a national setup, exactly how the men’s side began.

Well those are some of my thoughts, but I’d like to hear what you our listeners think, please get in touch and let me know your thoughts, and my thanks to Susan for her question.

Now onto other things, and the willows to wisdom email & fanmail were well and truly set alight over the past few weeks, thanks in no small part to some of the comments made by our guest last time round Trevor Lee. 

Now Trevor is not someone who is afraid of voicing an opinion, and he made a suggestion for a revamping of the County Championship and had some views about the Lions, amongst other things. If you haven’t heard what he said in the last episode, here’s what Trevor said about the County Championship...

Trevor -: ” We turn it into, we take the top 12 across the country based on the previous two years performance, and we have a Premier League, and they play each other once. And so the season, the championship season finishes at the end of July as now. And then the other 23 teams, because that's what there are at the moment, get split 12-11, you know, 12-11 North, 12-11 South, whichever way it works.

At the end of the season, at the end of the championship season, there's a trophy for winning the league. Hey, hey, because you don't get one at the moment, you know, because there is no kind of league to win, and the bottom two teams from the Premier League will be relegated for the following season. And the North and South champions go up.”

Rash -: Now this suggestion provoked a response, and before I get into some of the comments, this is exactly why the podcast was started. To create debate and interest, and to hear the thoughts of not just the players, but those who watch England Over 60’s cricket, so thank you to everyone who got in touch.

Here were some of the comments in relation to Trevor’s suggestion -:

Travel is always going to be an issue, but I do like the idea of having some form of jeopardy in promotion/relegation. 

Trevor should stick to podcasting, and keep his wild suggestions to himself.

This needs considering. The County Championship needs a revamp, and surely the best County Teams playing eachother would promote a very strong and demanding County Championship.

There’s no chance the league committee would ever consider this, it’s too radical.

And there’s plenty more, but these final 2 comments did make me chuckle, here they are…..

A Premier League, because what senior cricket really needs is more admin. If there’s one thing guaranteed to unite Over‑60s cricketers, it’s the belief that the fixture list is already complicated enough. Add promotion, relegation, and a two‑year qualification algorithm and suddenly half the captains need a maths degree.

Splitting North and South? Bold move. Just wait until Derbyshire decides it’s ‘basically South’. Counties already argue about boundaries for regional cups. This proposal guarantees at least three committee meetings dedicated solely to the geography of Northamptonshire.

So some varied comments there, and it’s clearly an issue that vexes many people, so please keep your comments coming in about this topic and any other topic that you feel needs addressing or discussing. 

So, the hornet’s nest was well and truly disturbed with Trevor’s suggestion, but that pailed into insignificance with the volume of messages about the Lions. Now, before I play you what Trevor said, I just want to make something clear. All the guests on the show get sent the questions beforehand, some we might use but it is all dependant on how the interview goes. I find it works better that way. I have absolutely no way of knowing what they are going to say, but I kept both replies in the podcast this time round because it is someone’s view, not necessarily ones that I personally agree with, but it’s not my personal podcast. I’m not going to play the full Lions reply, but here’s what Trevor said initially about the Lions…

Trevor -: ” I think it's a great idea having an England Lions set up. I'm not sure I fully understand what the full purpose of it is. And I think there's a bit of misunderstanding still amongst the ranks. OK, so let's assume that it's there to develop players for the 60s first team, if you like, for want of a better term, which I think I think it should be and therefore, you know, if you think about it, Rash, if you're playing test cricket and you're in the England Lions equivalent at that level, then you could get in there 18, 19 and you might make the test side at 21, 22, three or four years later. 

Well, frankly, if you're in the Lions now, you haven't got three or four years to make the main side because you'd be too old, you know, because people have come in. So here's a radical idea. Well, not radical, but I think worth thinking about.

So my thought is, I mean, I looked at the squad this year and I'm not going to talk about individuals. That'd be totally unfair. But there's 26 players in that squad. And as you well know, several of those have played for the England main team and chances are aren't going to play again for the England main team. One or two, maybe. So the question is, which is what people at the grassroots level of 60s cricket are asking, why are they in the lineup still?

Rash -: Now here are some of the comments in relation to Trevor’s comments about the Lions.

I think Jason Caunt & Paul Gelder are doing a brilliant job for the Lions. They are identifying talent, giving them a chance and instilling a brilliant team atmosphere.

Jason may or may not play again for the England team, but he needs commending for doing his role, and doing it fantastically well, and not walking away. He is exactly the person to lead it, promote it and drive it forward.

Having players who have played for England and are still competitive and who want to play for the Lions to help new players into the set up to adjust and integrate is something that should be applauded and praised. It’s a big step up from County Cricket to International Cricket, and those players being included in the side are vital.

And just a final comment that was received. 

There is a clear pathway for players to be included and rewarded. I don’t agree with what Trevor said, about the Lions, but as a Senior player myself, it would be a good thing to hear from the England Management what their vision for the Lions is.  

Now, and no disrespect to Trevor, and I don’t want guests to come on the show and feel that they have to tow the party line as such. I want them to be honest and opinionated, that’s the whole point of the interview. It’s also irrelevant whether I agree with them or not, but such was the response to the interview, that I believe it warranted inclusion in this episode.

So my thanks to Susan for her question, and to all of you who got in touch about Trevor’s proposals, and it’s also a big thank you to Trevor for sticking his head above the parapet.

Now if you would like to get in touch with us, to ask a question, comment or have a suggestion for the show, then here’s how to do so.

CONTACT US

(35:55) Rash -: Now here on the Willows to Wisdom podcast, we want you to be involved. If you’d like to send a question in or have a comment or observation about Over 60’s cricket, then you can get in touch a number of ways. In the episode notes, you’ll find a link to FanMail. Click on the link, it’s completely free to use , and we’ll read your message out on the show, but don’t forget to leave your name and where you are contacting us from. If hearing your voice on the podcast isn’t for you, then please send us an email, our email address is willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com, that’s willowstowisdompodcast@gmail.com and that’s all one word. 

And talking about getting in touch, you can also comment or message us via the England social media platforms, and to run you through where you can find and access them, here’s the England Social Media Manager, Harrison Burridge with further details.

Harrison -:  Have you enjoyed listening to this podcast and want to keep a closer eye on the England 60’s team progress? Then open your favourite social media app and search for England 60’s cricket. You’ll be able to find the team on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Hit follow and have a front row seat to the summer’s cricket.

Rash -: Thank you Harrison. So please do folks, follow us on all the social media platforms and send us a message in via the FanMail link or indeed email to get in touch with us here at the show. We really do look forward to hearing from you.

ENGLAND v ENGLAND OVER 50 LIONS MATCH REVIEW

(37:25) Rash-: Dunmow Cricket Club in Essex, was the venue for the final game in the home schedule for England, as they took on the young whippersnappers in the shape of the England Over 50 Lions on Friday 24th July.

On a baking hot day, the Over 50 Lions were invited to bat, on what is traditionally a very high scoring pitch, with a lightening fast outfield, par score is 280 plus. 

The left handed opening pair of John Bowden and Tim Western wasted little time in getting going, passing the 50 run mark in the 9th over, and the score had reached 74, when Bowden advanced down the wicket to a Phil Deakin delivery, missing the ball and giving Simon Routh an easy stumping, Bowden out for a quick fire 44 of just 28 deliveries. Richard Harvey joined Western, and the score had just passed the 100 run mark when Harvey was dismissed for 12 in a carbon copy of Bowden’s dismissal, again off the bowling of Deakin, the score 101/2.

Javed Naeem joned Western and immediately looked at home, playing some fine shots, and together with Western the score started to accelerate. The 150 run mark was passed, and Western reached his half century, before he was out for 51, caught by Deakin off the bowling of Vince Mulholland for 51, the score 141/3.

Ross Martin and Naeem, then went on the attack, with Martin in particular playing some outrageous shots. The pair put on 50 runs in double quick time and the 200 run mark was passed, and with both batsmen set and with wickets in hand, the Over 50 Lions were on course for a score of something around 350.

Martin was riding his luck however, giving 3 very difficult caught and bowled chances, as well as having the knack of hitting the ball in the air only for it to land between fielders. Naeem reached his half century and the score went past 250 runs, when he was the next man out for 73, stumped by Colin Cliff off the bowling of Alan Whitman, the score 257/4, Naeem, dismissed after a very entertaining and well crafted innings, his 73 coming off 62 balls with 7 fours and 4 sixes, and his partnership with Martin yielding 116 runs.

Martin had also reached his half century and continued his entertaining batting, eventually being dismissed when the score had reached 297, holing out to deep mid wicket off the bowling of Deakin, giving Neil Brathwaite a simple catch. Martin out for 91 off off 69 deliveries with 9 fours and 3 sixes. 

The Lions had only a few over remaining, and managed to get to 318, with just the loss of skipper Stuart Felstead after ther 45 overs.

Deakin finished with figures of 4/53.

The Essex teammates Mel Hussain and Neil Brathwaite opened the batting for England, and had to face a very fiery, quick and aggressive opening bowling stint from Matt Jeavons and Gareth Williams. Both bowlers getting movement in the air and off the seam, and giving the openers little respite. 

9 runs had been scored when Hussain was given out LBW off the bowling of Williams. Temoor Alam, an aggressive batter by nature showed his intent from the off, hitting the first ball he faced for 4 through the covers, but his stay at the crease was short lived, as he got an absolute peach of a delivery from Jeavons, which was quick and pitched on middle stump before seeming away past the bat, to clip the off bail. It was simply an unplayable delivery, Alam out for 9, the score 19/2.

The England skipper joined Brathwaite out in the middle, and looked to steady the ship, in the face of some really intimidating bowling, and credit where credit is due, both batters applied themselves diligently. Jeavons was replaced after bowling 4 overs, and it was his replacement Matt Bashford who struck next, dismissing Gordon Lennox with another quick seaming delivery that crashed into middle stump. Gordon Lennox  out for 5, the score 34/3.

Just 5 runs had been added when Brathwaite departed for 17 in the same manner as Gordon Lennox, again off the bowling of Bashford, England now 39/4.

Phil Hillson got a delivery that stopped a bit on the pitch as he was through his shot, and he provided a simple caught and bowled chance to Williams, Hillson out for 1, the score 42/5.

England were finding it tough, against wat has to be said was some fine, quick accurate bowling from the Lions, who were getting a good deal of assistance from the pitch.

Neal Jackson and Ian Barton batted very well, taking the score onto 90, when Barton advanced down the pitch to a Dan Taylor delivery, and got a thick inside edge that smashed into the stumps. Barton out for 16, the score 90/6. With the dismissal of Barton, Neal Jackson also left the field, appearing to be suffering from a hamstring injury, Jackson, retiring after a very solid and accomplished innings of 31, in the face of some hostile and quick bowling, and it was 90/7 shortly after as Simon Routh moved across his stumps to play a shot on the leg side, his foot just striking the leg stump, and the bail being dislodged. 

Alan Whitman came in, and Matt Jeavons returned to ball, and it was Jeavons who struck again, this time bowling a full, quick delivery that smashed onto Whitman’s pads, with him trapped right in front of the stumps. Whitman out for 6, England 98/6. 

When Colin Cliff was struck on the hip from a Jeavons delivery, that he didn’t appear to see at all, the match ended, England having reached 101 after 34.5 overs. 

England selected Ross Martin as player of the match for the Lions, and Phil Deakin was selected as player of the match for England.

The scorecard will show this game as a defeat for England by 217 runs. However, this fixture was never about the result. It was an opportunity for England to be tested against younger, stronger, fitter and quicker opposition. To test themselves, to be put under pressure, to see how they reacted as both individuals and as a team. It sounds a bit daft to say that they should be very proud of their effort in the field to restrict the Lions, who let’s not forget had 5 or 6 regular players in the starting line up, who will line up for England in the Over 50 World Cup in Hyderabad in a few months time, to 318. The fielding was some of the best I have seen since I started commentating on England. The amount of runs saved in the field on a quick bare outfield was astonishing to see. At no point did anyone let their head drop, there was encouragement from everybody during the bowling stint, and granted a bit of luck, England could have taken a few more wickets.

These England players, many of whom play club cricket on a Saturday are used to facing younger, quicker bowlers, but I doubt they will have faced, and nor will they face in the World Cup, bowling at the pace of Jeavons, Willims and Bashford. They were up against it, but those bowlers in addition to their pace and accuracy, did have probably the better of the conditions to bowl with, with cloud cover present, aiding their bowling efforts producing significant swing and movement off the seam. That said, it was a high class demonstration of controlled, aggressive bowling.

What I saw first-hand, was a group of players who rolled their sleeves up, and did the very best they could. They encouraged and looked after each other, and there was a definite all together attitude that will stand them in good stead in Canada and beyond.

England now have 10 days or so, to rest and recover, before they fly out to Toronto for the World Cup, and we wish them the very best of luck in their attempt to become WORLD Champions.  

ENGLAND LIONS v SCOTAND

(45:12) Rash -: On the same day the Seniors played at Dunmow, the Lions made the trip north to play Scotland at Kelburne Cricket Club in Paisley, where Gloucestershire’s James Cotterill was making his debut for the Lions.

Scotland won the toss and elected to bat, and got to 238/6 after their 45 overs, thanks in no small part to a 141 run partnership between the Scotland skipper Clark McConnachie and Peter Moses. McConnachie falling 4 runs short of his century and Moses scoring 54. Kevin Watson, after taking 7 wickets in the previous Lions outing finished as the leading wicket taker again, this time taking 2/34.

In reply, the Lions started well with Mark Eames and Graham Shaw sharing an 88 run partnership, Shaw departing for 35. James Cotterill made 9, and when Eames was out for 73, the Lions had reached 147. 

Steve Small and Simon Anderton saw the Lions to victory, sharing a 92 run partnership, to get the score to 239/3 after 41 overs, Anderton 56 not out and Small 37 not out at the end of the innings, so the Lions winning by 7 wickets.

So another victory for the Lions, who continue their fine summer season. Their final game of the domestic summer takes place at Brentwood Cricket Club in Essex on the 29th July, where they will face an Invitational XI. The match will be streamed live, so please tune in.

Congratulations to Paul Gelder, Jason Caunt and the players on another good performance.

REGIONAL OVER 65 COMPETITION

(46:51) Rash -: The 4th round of the Regional Over 65 competition was completed on 16th July, with 3 matches taking place. At Panteg CC, Cricket Wales, still searching for their first win took on the Eastern Echos. The Northern Superchargers had their passports stamped and got their visa’s issued for the long trip down south to Maidstone, where they took on the South East Saxons at The Mote CC, and the South West Falcons, the leaders after the first 3 rounds of the competition took on the Midlands Mavericks at Moreton in the Marsh Cricket Club.

So we start our round up with the table toppers the South West Falcons who took on the Midlands Mavericks at Moreton in the Marsh. The Falcons won the toss and elected to bat, but the Mavericks took 2 quick wickets to leave the Falcons on 24/2 after 8.3 overs, but some good sensible batting from R Graham top scoring with 71, Steve Hunt with 47 and Anton Luiten with 63 got the Falcons to 265/7 off their 45 overs. For the Mavericks, Martin Weston and Tim Riley took 3 wickets apiece.

The Mavericks reply got off to the worst possible start with Phil Manger getting a golden duck in the first over, and worse was to come as Peter Harler, Brad Peake and Michael Daniels were all dismissed before the completion of the 6th over, the Mavericks in complete disarray sitting at 9/4, Haywood and Cull helping themselves to 2 wickets each.  Tim Reilly showed his character and commitment to what seemed a losing cause by sharing a 110 run partnership with Martin Weston, Weston scoring 36, and Riley finishing on 123 not out. The Mavericks from their horrendous start really do need commending on ending up at 223/6 after their 45 overs, so the Falcons remain unbeaten and top of the table, winning by 42 runs.

At Panteg Cricket Club, Cricket Wales took on the Eastern Echos. Cricket Wales won the toss and elected to bat and with good contributions from Pete Docherty and Stuart Carpenter, would have been confident of posting a big score, sitting at 192/5 with 15 overs remaining. However, the wheels somewhat came off for Wales, as they lost their remaining 5 wickets for the addition of just 24 runs, being all out for 216 off 35.1 overs. Manawer Sultan with 3/48 and Shaid Iqbal with 4/32 were Cricket Wales chief tormentors. 

In reply, the Echos reached their target quite comfortably, thanks in no small part to an opening stand of 115, between Si Sampat and Colin Walters, and with further good contributions from Shahid Iqbal, David Holliday and Joseph Pierre, the Echoes ended their run chase on 220/3 after 32.3 overs, winning by 7 wickets.

Down in Maidstone, The Northern Superchargers and The South East Saxons served up a belter of a game, with 574 runs being scored between them. The Saxons won the toss and put the Superchargers into bat, and may have regretted that decision as Richard Merriman and Martin Watkin, shared an opening stand of 114, before Watkin was out for 41 in the 21st over. If that wicket signalled some respite for the Saxons, then they were mistaken as Tony Birbeck joined Merriman, and the pair made hay while the sun shined. Merriman reached a fine century before he departed in the 29th over, the pair scoring 62 runs in just short of 8 overs. Merriman out for 102. Birbeck reached his half century but he departed shortly after for 54 when the score had reached 219/3 after 36.4 overs, and some lusty late hitting by Montie Douglas, David Lees and Ali Anthony, saw the Superchargers post an imposing 288/6 after their 45 overs. Ed Smith was the pick of the Saxons bowlers taking 3/55.

The Saxons have a very strong and powerful top 4 in Andrew Steggall, Gordon Morgan, Mark Shepherd and Mike Redferane, and a lot would rest on the outcome of the game as to how these 4 would perform. Morgan, such a prolific run scorer, wasn’t able to cash in this time around, departing after scoring 20, and when Shepherd departed in the 16th over for 26, when the score had reached 73, the Saxons were there or there abouts in scoring at the required run rate. Redfearne departed when the score had reached 100, and Steggall reached his half century before he too was out for 59, the score 116/4 after 23.3 overs. With the loss of Steggall, and with 173 more runs required and the required run rate above 8 an over, it was going to take some effort for the Saxons to reach their target, and fair play to them, they rolled their sleeves up and gave it a real good go, with John Bates and Jon Woodman leading the charge. Bates was stumped off the bowling of Colin Gibson for 36 when the score had reached 183 after 33.5 overs . 

Woodman was joined by Keith Harsham, and he reached his half century, and the score passed 200 in the 36th over, so a grandstand finish was on the cards. With 5 overs to go, the Saxons had reached 250, and the Superchargers were desperately searching for a breakthrough to halt the Saxons onslaught, and that breakthrough came in the 41st over as David Lees trapped Woodman LBW, Woodman out for 70 off 60 balls with 11 fours, the score 258/6, and his partnership with Harsham had yielded 75 runs in just 7 overs, and just a couple of runs later Harsham departed for 36 off 23 balls, given out LBW off the bowling of Ian Frost.

Phil Trayner and Neil Stevens got the score to 280 with just 1 over to go, so the Saxons needed 9 to win off the final over, and a leg bye was scored off the first ball, before Trayner hit a 4 off David Lees, so 4 balls to go, 4 needed. 2 dot balls followed, and with the 5th ball of the over Trayner was bowled by Lees, and incoming batter Ed Smith could only get a single of the final ball, to leave the Saxons agonizingly short, finishing on 286/8, the Superchargers holding on, just to win by 2 runs, in what was a magnificent game of cricket, and credit to both teams for their efforts. David Lees, Ian Frost and Colin Gibson took 2 wickets apiece. 

So the standings after 4 rounds have the Falcons top of the table on 8 points, having won all 4 of their matches and they will advance to the finals regardless of the result of their final fixture. The Superchargers sit in second on 6 points and will also most likely advance due to their superior net run rate.

The Echos and the Saxons sit 3rd and 4th respectively on 4 points, with the Mavericks in 5th on 2 points, with Cricket Wales in 6th and searching for their first win of the competition.

The final round of fixtures takes place on Thursday 20th August, when the Echos take on the Falcons at Castle Park Cricket Club in Colchester. The Mavericks take on the Saxons at a venue to be confirmed, and the Superchargers take on Cricket Wales again at a venue to be confirmed. All the matches start at midday, and I’ve included a link to the competition website in the episode notes.

Good luck to all taking part in round 5.

RASH’S REFLECTIONS

(54:34) Rash-: Well that rather upbeat music heralds a new segment in the podcast, where I look back at some of my favourite moments commentating on England, which I’ve called Rash’s reflections. Now I’ve been exceptionally fortunate in my time as England commentator, to be in and around the players, and to be part of some very memorable moments both here in the UK and abroad.

It’s been a wonderful experience for both myself and my wife Mel, to travel and be part of the England Seniors family, and we have some wonderful memories to look back on and I hope you enjoy them too.

Well for Rash’s Reflections this time around, we go back to last summer, and the 2nd ODI between England & Australia in the Grey Ashes played at Fairburn Cricket Club in West Yorkshire, home club of Kevin Watson, who was not selected to play in the game.

England 1-0 down in the series, having lost the 1st ODI a few days before at Littleborough from a seemingly strong position, chasing 250 to win, and sitting pretty at 106 without loss, only to lose 6 wickets for 24 runs in 20 minutes of chaos to suffer a chastening defeat.

The pitch at Fairburn had seen heavy overnight rain, and with the temperatures set to reach 22 degrees on a very green coloured top, winning the toss and bowling first would be the first order of the day, as the pitch was expected to provide maximum assistance to the seamers for the first hour or so of play, and that is exactly what happened.

Mark Wilson and Mike Palmer opened the bowling for England. Palmer, a stalwart of the England set up, is probably one of the unluckiest bowlers around, and his figures for England do not tell the full story. I’ve been privaliged to watch Palms for the past few years and he is wholehearted in his approach, and when conditions are in his favour is nigh on unplayable.

With the prospect of favourable pitch, Palms wasted little time in getting stuck into the Australian top order, having Doug Murphy given out LBW from his first delivery. He followed up with the wicket of Darren Smith in his third over and in his 5th over, bowled an absolute beauty to Graeme Pavey, a ball which moved in the air, pitched and left the right hander and clattered into the off stump, a text book delivery on a green top. His final victim of the day was the dangerous left hander Stephen Butler….here’s the commentary.

Butler's had a nibble at that and he's gone as well. A rising delivery from Palmer and Butler, well he couldn't help himself, just had a little nibble at it. There you go folks, a regulation catch to Steve Aston. 26 for 6, Butler, another man gone without scoring caught by Steve Aston off the bowling of Michael Palmer who is having the day of his life.

Palms’s dismissal of Butler capped a virtuoso performance, a high class demonstration of seam bowling, and no wonder he had a big smile on his face as he completed his spell, with figures of 9 overs, 2 maidens 4 wickets for 25.

It was so pleasing to see him get just rewards for his efforts, and thanks to him England ran out comfortable winners to square the series at 1 game apiece.

It was a real pleasure to see Palms bowl that day, and it is something he can look back on with a great deal of pride.

So that’s my reflection this time around, I’ll have another one in the next episode.

GUEST INTERVIEW – ANNIE CHAVE

(57:59) Rash -: My guest today on the podcast is a writer, editor, broadcaster, author, publisher, podcaster and campaigner. Cricket was always going to form some part of her life, being the fourth child of a cricketing mad family, citing her beloved mad professor father as the instigator, who took her to village greens the length and breadth of Devon during her childhood.

As a result of this, she has an encyclopedic knowledge of Devon, measured by two criteria, cricket grounds and pubs. Now, after a career in administration, the arts and community works, she initially got into cricket by writing about it in her spare time, which has progressed into her becoming one of the most respected cricket writers in England.

She is the editor of County Cricket Matters, a quarterly magazine which advocates for the ongoing and continuing traditions of county cricket and the communities tied to it. She is a passionate and vehement defender of county cricket and you'll be very hard pressed to find a more fervent or indeed passionate advocate for it.

She is also a commentator, being a familiar and friendly voice commentating on Somerset matches, and anyone within hearing distance will be bombarded by stories and tales of Somerset County Cricket Club. And I have it on good authority that the only way to escape this is by saying, “oh look, isn't that Marcus Trescothick over there”and as she turns around, you make good your escape.

She was one of the hosts of the Cricket Natters podcast, a podcast that looks at each round of the county championship, but due to her numerous commitments, has had to relinquish that role and has rose to prominence as a commentator for Guerrilla Cricket, which provides listeners with a sometimes irreverent, but always entertaining alternative to cricket commentary.

Her first book, which she published last year, entitled Cricket Changed My Life, 11 Personal Journeys, has been very well received. And it's not your typical cricket book, as it looks at a diverse array of people who demonstrate that the game of cricket can be of benefit to anyone. And it's not purely confined to the players who play it, or the venues to play at. It's my great pleasure to welcome Annie Chave to the Willows Tourism Podcast.

Rash -:  Good morning, Annie.

Annie -: Good morning. That was quite a mouthful, wasn't it? 

Rash -: Well, you've packed so much in. You've got such a diverse portfolio. But I just want to start with your childhood. I ask all the guests, where their love of cricket started. So I'll go back to your childhood, if I may, and take it back to Devon. Now, our second guest on the podcast, Nick Gaywood, spoke very fondly of his cricket days in Devon, growing up in Newton Abbot and playing for Bovey Tracy Cricket Club. And it's got a rich history as the county regarding cricket. Now, did you have any choice as you were growing up or did you embrace the cricketing adventures in Devon willingly?

Annie -: No, I had no choice because we started off going to cricket when I was about five. So I didn't have any choice. We were dragged along by my mum and dad. But that was our life. That was our summer. We'd wait for the, I can't remember the word now, the fixtures. That's it. We'd wait for the fixtures to come through the post and then we'd have a look at them and get really excited about all the games that we were going to go to and it was a fabulous childhood. I cannot say anything bad about it, apart from it was just wonderful to be outside in a really safe environment with your parents not bothered about what you're doing. You know, yeah, all that sort of stuff. And also they're involved in another game. And then you got excited about the game that was going on. So it was just fabulous. I don't understand why more people don't do it, but there you are.

Rash -: When you were growing up and being dragged around Devon, you were obviously making friends. Did you take friends along with you? Was that your day out? Because surely at that age, five, six, seven, you weren't just concentrating on the cricket where your dad and your brother were playing. You were making your own fun and entertainment in the outfield and in the environment of the ground, I would suspect.

Annie -: Yeah, I mean, as you said, I was the youngest of four, so I had siblings with me. But also there were always other people there. And you know how children are. They just make friends with whoever's there, really. And you get into a new game. And yeah, it was all like that, really. So yeah, I probably did take friends along, but I can't really remember much. Just remember going. And that was it. That was our summer.

Rash -:  And that was the whole summer, I take it.

Annie -: The whole summer, the whole summer, every weekend, yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was amazing. It was lovely. 

Rash -: Great stuff. Now, listen, what made you take up writing about cricket in the first instance, then? 

Annie -: What made me take up writing? I think just what happened basically to me is that I've always loved cricket. I've always gone along, you know, and everything. And then my son was old enough to go to university and he went off to university and I kind of had a gap in my life. And so I thought, oh, well, I'll go to some cricket matches and go on to social media and have a little work, you know, put things down about what was happening and, and then I kind of got attention from people and then what happened basically is somebody asked me because I had quite determined views shall we say they, they asked me to, to write some stuff and, and so I did kind of went from there. So, I wrote for a blog site called Being Outside Cricket. And then The Cricketer got in touch and asked me to write something. And then it kind of continued from there, really. And then, of course, the magazine that happened. And that happened because of the fear of what would happen when The Hundred started because this was back in 2019. The fear of what would happen to county cricket and so we brought our magazine and I was the obvious choice for editor at that point and seven years later I'm still writing the thing.

Rash -: Well, we will come on to that in a bit, Annie, but fabulous work that you do. Now, listen, county cricket is very much at the forethought of your thoughts. Everybody who knows you knows that. But what makes you so passionate about it? Because it continues to face criticism from a number of people. You know, and I can think back to when when I was growing up, the furore around the admission of Durham, I think in 2000 as the 18th county.

You split to two divisions, and I think that was in 2000. And then, you know, promotion and relegation, it was initially three up and three down, and then it changed in, I think, 2014, 2015 to two up, two down. Listen, the county championship is always under scrutiny, but where does your passion for county cricket and the wider community it serves actually come from?

Annie -: Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. I've just read a history about the county cricket championship, and it is. I don't think there's anything that's had so many rule changes, so many different types. And basically, that's because it doesn't make money. And that's what matters, isn't it? So one of the first things I really like about the county championship is, and this is changing, sadly, and has changed already, is the member, you know, member-owned clubs, I think. You know, it's like a John Lewis or a Co-op. It helps the members, you know, and it's a sort of organic process that goes through. Members help and then it goes back to the members.

You know, that sort of thing. And I think that's a wonderful, you know, wonderful ethos. And I wish the world was a bit more like that. So that's one of the things I really love about it. And that's also because of the community it serves. And you mentioned community. It's a massive thing. You've got, you know, every county does so much within the area around it, so much with disability, with older people, with, you know, just everything. It does everything. And I think that is lost sometimes. It's not shown enough. And then I also, I love the four-day game. Yeah.

And I love long form format cricket and you just don't get it in many places. Luckily, you get it in, you get a three day version in the minor counties, the national counties, but you get the four day game. And it is a wonderful, wonderful thing. It's a brilliant game where you have a narrative that you follow throughout those four days. And it's a brilliant game.

And you have so many people that you can see and chat to and you have a community there. And, you know, there's just so many things about it. And also it's rich history. There's so, so much that they have from the past. And it's a wonderful thing to be part of. 

Rash -: Absolutely. Well said. But one of the criticisms, and I was speaking to somebody last week. I was up at a 60s game, and one of the questions or one of the comments that they made was they don't think county cricket is fit for purpose. And it's an argument and it's a comment that I've heard quite a lot over the last few years. It's similar to something that happened on the podcast last week with Trevor Lee, the host of the Silver Stumps podcast, advocated a radical change to the over-60s championship, which has sent my emails into meltdown. Do you agree with that comment? Is it fit for purpose?

Annie -: Fit for purpose. It depends what the purpose is. 

Rash -: Correct. And that's the argument that I countered with because I said, what are you trying to say? Are you saying it should only be there to produce players who can go on to play for the England national team? Or do you think it benefits the wider community and the wider breadth of players who can play to a good standard and provide entertaining cricket? It's a very difficult one to answer. I appreciate that. But it's a comment I've heard a lot of, fit for purpose. And it doesn't sit right with me.

Annie -: Well, it sounds like something someone's heard said and then they don't quite know where they're going with it. I mean, if I looked at all of the people that I know that don't necessarily go to County Cricket but really care about the County Championship, it's huge. I mean, I think there's so much follow of the County Championship itself. It doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be about the national side. It is a thing in its own right. The fact that it does produce cricketers for the England side is a wonderful thing.

But I don't personally, I care much more about Somerset, which is my local team, than I do about England. And there are many, many people. It's not, I am not unique in that, that feel the same.

Rash -: No, you're not. I speak to a lot of people, particularly up here in South Yorkshire, and the Yorkshire fans, they couldn't care less about the England team. They make that quite clear. They make that quite clear. Listen, you touched on being editor for County Cricket Matters. Let's go on to that. Now, when you're out about speaking with people, what's the main topic that arises when speaking about county cricket, because you pick up on a lot and you publish a lot, you must get inundated. People know you and they see you about, you know, you're very approachable. They're not going to be shying coming forward. What's the big thing that they are speaking about at the moment?

Annie -: The schedule. It's always, always the schedule and the fact that the County Championship has been put to the beginning of this year and the end of the year. It is an absolutely crazy thing that a game that is made for summer is not being played in the height of summer. I mean, all right, you might have the odd game, but basically we are saving the summer for... for games that we play in the evening. I mean, it's ludicrous. It's absolutely ludicrous. And meanwhile, it's perfect conditions now for, you know, spin bowling for, you know, fast bowling for everything, for batting, and we are not using it. So that is the main thing. That is the thing that everyone feels very strongly about. And the fact that, you know, we are losing some of the teams as well you know, sorry we're losing some of the games so we're the games are getting less fewer and fewer championship games across the season yeah.
 
 

Rash -: Well the magazine started as you said Annie because of the introduction of the Hundred. Now I've got my own views about the Hundred which are probably not broadcastable, but it really has taken a massive slice out of that County Championship. Can you see it changing in any way shape or form. I mean the County Championship in the next three to four years to maybe because the Hindred isn't going away is it not with all that investment, that is not going away.I think it's probably going to eat in, if I'm personally honest more into the county championship. Can you see there being a compromise at any point.

Annie -: I think there will be a compromise. I think the counties that don't have the Hundred which are 10, 11, whatever Middlesex and MCCs. So for those counties, it's a sort of wasteland in the summer for them. There is talk and there will be debates about whether to play the championship alongside the 100 at those counties, because otherwise they are being left fallow for the cricket season, basically.

You know, and there are people that actually want to take their kids to championship games and not just short form firework display, you know, so they should be available for kids in the summer as well. And there are, you know, there has been some leniency. I have to say there's been some games in June and there's a couple at the end of August now.

But it feels very, I mean, it's two months between the last championship game and the next one. And that's just absolutely mad. 

Rash -: And the follow on question to that is what happens to those county players in the interim?

Annie -: Yeah, I mean, so of course I'm Somerset-based, so take Jack Leach. What is he doing in the cricket season, basically? It's madness. Okay, some of them might be earning a fortune at the Hundred. Some of them will not. And again, that makes a really difficult time in the changing room, kind of the county season again. I can't imagine what it's like for some of them when they come back and the others that have been left behind.

Rash -: Yeah, it does create an issue. And the other thing that people speak to me about is that when the players move up to the national team, I can mention Yorkshire, the likes of Joe Root, Harry Brook, etc. The Yorkshire fans don't get to see them in a Yorkshire shirt. No. Joe Root did at the start of this season, but very few and far between. Well, they're your superstar players. You want to go and see them. That puts bums on seats.

Annie -: Of course it does. I mean, that's to do with the contracts, isn't it? It is. England contracts. But I think that's a crazy thing for cricketers. Play cricket. Don't, you know, rest them. And, you know, all right, they might need a little bit of rest. But generally, if you're playing cricket, you want to play cricket.

Rash -: You do indeed. Well, County Cricket Matters, you say you're the editor and it's been for seven years. It's out every quarter. Is that right?

Annie -:  Yeah, it's out every quarter. Yeah. So it's out January. No, it's December, March, June and September. So, yeah.

Rash -: Okay, well over 25 periodicals now, isn't it? So you're still going strong. Do you still have the enthusiasm for it? 

Annie -: I do, yeah. It's more well-oiled than it was to start with, so I kind of can have a month off and not think about it, but I'm starting to think about the next one already. I do, it's lovely to get new people writing. It's lovely to get some real brilliant writers. The interviews have been pretty easy for me generally, but I'm getting to a point where, you know, the cricket season is hard to get interviews because people are always so busy. But, yeah, I mean, I do. I love it. And it's a real... Everywhere I go, people say, oh, I'm a subscriber. Thank you for your, you know, that sort of thing. Thank you for sending. Yeah.

So it's really a lot of people send me messages saying how important it is and keep going, you know. So, yeah, for that reason. Yeah.

Rash -: But you're giving them a voice because with the best will in the world, you are quite well known now. 

Annie -: Yeah, bizarre. I mean, I do meet people and they go, oh, hi, Annie. And I'm like, oh, who are you? 

Rash -: But that's a good thing. And long may it continue. Now, Geurilla Cricket and commentating for Somerset, it gives you an opportunity to see up close and personal the county scene and also international cricket. How do you see cricket in England progressing over the next five years?

Annie -: I think it depends on the ICC and on the rise of franchise cricket. I mean, unfortunately, I'm not very positive about it and I feel a bit, I don't want to be negative about it, but short-termism, that is what happens with people. And I think that is what's happening generally is, you know, we see a way of making money, oh, franchise cricket, franchise cricket. And actually, I think it will burn out a bit, but meanwhile, we're getting,

Why would people play for their country when they can earn a fortune going around and earning on short little things? I don't know. Something is going to have to happen. They're going to have to do something pretty special to keep players interested in playing for their country. And I think it's really sad that that is a thing. But I do see there is obviously a massive interest in test matches here.

In Australia, you know, and New Zealand a bit and India. But other countries, it's so expensive and it's so hard. And they're also not getting the backing from the ICC that they need, the financial backing. And that is a real...Yeah, it's a real shame. I think, you know, personally, I want everybody to have the same money, however much they... Yeah, it's like the county championship. I feel about membership at member-owned clubs. I feel the same about, you know, the ICC. We should all be looking after each other and every country should be getting the same amount and the same coverage. It shouldn't be about who makes the most money because in the end, you only make the money if you've got somebody to play.

Rash -: I heard last week a comment that the ICC were Toothless Tigers and international cricket and world cricket is driven by India. That was maybe a topic for another discussion.

Annie -:  I mean, who can blame India, though, in some ways for that? I mean, it's true. It is run by India in lots of ways. But yeah.

Rash -: Right, let's move on before the ICC and the ECB come charging. Now, listen, women's cricket and the investment from the ECB are certainly bearing fruit and Somerset Women are certainly a side. Listen, on their day, they can beat anybody. Look at the likes of Sophie Luff, Charlie Dean, Amanda Jade Wellington and, of course, Heather Knight. Now, England lost to Australia in the recent women's T20 final. But, do you think the exploits of the women playing in the county cricket championship and on the international scene, do you think it will encourage more women to take up the sport? 

Annie -: Absolutely it will. One of the things about anything is if it's visible, it will become more popular. And this was the big thing about taking cricket off telly and putting it behind a paywall was suddenly you lose the casual observer who wouldn't know who it is, you know. You see it's like anybody I've talked to. Lots of West Indians for example and they all say you know it I saw somebody like me playing cricket. Same, same with women same with any sort of any people that weren't expecting to be playing cricket suddenly see someone that looks like oh I can do that it's massively important and there's huge investment in the game now and I think it's really important that the county's. however difficult it is, because it is financially difficult for all the counties, it's really, really important that they embrace the women's game. And suddenly, you know, for me personally, the last two years, I've found it really fantastic to have a Somerset side, you know, another one. It's like, you know...

And I can suddenly watch all these people growing up and changing and getting better or worse. You know, it's a wonderful thing. And these advantages are massive. But again, it's the short-termism. It's been hard to do it because people can only see that it's not going to make money initially. But it will. Yeah, of course it will. And more kids will take it up. Massive amounts of kids will take it up.

Rash -: That's a great answer. Now, listen, one of our listeners has contacted me with a question, which the listeners of this podcast when it's released will hear earlier from this interview. And she was asking about whether I thought there would be a women's over 60 team in the near future. Now, I gave my answer to it, Annie. I won't bore you with that. But what are your thoughts on that? Did you think it's a viable thing? Could it happen? Of course it could happen. 

Annie -: Absolutely it could. 

Rash -: Will it happen? 

Annie -: Absolutely it could. I don't see why it wouldn't. Women's cricket has been around for so long it's just been in the shadows, it's not in the shadows anymore.  They are still playing. I mean, I know Enid Bakewll she is still playing at 80 so there are people if you're fit enough you can play you know and there's no reason why women shouldn't be as fit as men so absolutely there should be

Rash -: Yeah, and I've seen it covering the over-60s. People think it's dibbly-dobbly cricket and they get quite a rude awakening when they see these guys throwing themselves about like loonies and running. I mean, yeah, they can't do things that they could do 40 years previously, but I tell you what, they can still bowl and they've got to find different ways of adjusting. It is a brilliant product and I'm very passionate about it, as you are with county cricket.

Now, on to other things. You published your first book last year, and it's been very, very well received. Cricket Changed My Life, 11 Personal Journeys. Now, I've read a lot of cricket books. I haven't actually read yours, but I've read some of the reviews. And it's a different kind of cricket book because it looks at how cricket affects people and not just players. I mean, you've got people like Bumble on there and Roland Butcher, who we'll touch on in a minute, obviously, yeah connected heavily with the 60s. What prompted you to write it and why that particular format? 

Annie -: So what happened was I heard an interview by Catherine Brunt where she said something about how cricket had saved her life. I think she was a bit of a live wire and cricket had really...

Rash -: Yeah, she talks openly about it, doesn't she? 

Annie -: Yeah. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. I bet there's loads of people where that sort of thing has happened. And I thought it'd be nice to do a book about it. I love interviewing people. So I thought that would be really good. And I contacted Stephen Chalk, who's the publisher, cricket writer. And I said, I've got this idea. What do you think? And he said, yeah, it's a good idea. You need to speak to this chap, Waleed Khan. He's a great person to talk to. 

I mean, just very quickly, Waleed Khan, when he was 12, he was shot six times by terrorists in a horrible attack where all his school friends were killed. And he survived. And it's about how cricket had helped him get through this atrocious thing and start to be this amazing motivational speaker that he is now.

So his story was amazing. And I interviewed him and I thought, wow, this is really, you know, this is great. And I sent the chapter to Stephen and he said, yep, this is great and sent it on to a publisher and they said, yeah, we'll publish it. And so that was Fairfield Books. And we sat down and we chatted about various people to interview and went from there, really. I wanted to, obviously, because I wanted to interview, it had to be people who were alive.

And I wanted a diverse selection, but I didn't want them all to be cricketers. I wanted them to be, you know, like Waleed, to have this amazing sort of backstory. And I just found it a really, really wonderful experience, the whole writing it, the whole interviewing, everything. 

Rash -: Well, of course, yeah, of course, Roland Butcher is one of the people, one of the other. And you were, I mean recently been interviewed by Daniel Norcross, BBC Test Match Special commentator, yourself and Roland at the Chalk History Festival, I think it was last month. So it's getting out there and the exposure's out there. But you're very much like Roland, if I may say that, in breaking the glass ceiling. And we do have women commentators, they are to the fore now. Alison Mitchell does a great job, Isa Guha does a great job, Emily Rainford-Brent and what she's doing.

But his book, you know, Breaking Barriers, Barbados to England and back, being the first black cricketer to represent England. Do you feel a responsibility as Roland does? I mean, Roland's someone I know. I was commentating with him last summer at Dunnington, England versus the West Indies. He...He's fiercely proud of that. 

Annie -: Yeah, he is. 

Rash -: The impact it makes. And you're doing things in the cricket reporting world and your reputation is growing. Do you feel a responsibility? And do you feel that you have stuck your head through the glass ceiling? Or do you still think there's some way to go? 

Annie -: Yeah. I do a bit. Obviously, there are other people, like you say, you know, the people that have been doing things. But one of the first things I did say when I first went online and started talking about cricket was I wanted to show that there were women that understood cricket, that cricket was a major thing. And it wasn't just about women's cricket. And although I love women's cricket, you know, I've grown up with men's cricket. Yeah.

And I wanted to show that, you know, women can really enjoy men's cricket, understand it, have sort of things to say about it. And so, yeah, I do feel a bit of responsibility. I do get people saying, like I said earlier, lots of people saying to me, keep going, you know, it's really important what you're doing. So I do feel that sometimes. I think, right, OK, right, I've got...

Got to keep going. And because I've not been joined to anything particular. Now, I now write a fortnightly column for the cricket paper. But generally, I've been my own person. I've been able to say what I want to be able to say. And that is a freedom that a lot of people don't have. So I keep doing that. At the moment, nobody's told me not to carry on doing what you're doing um and yeah I have an opinion and it matters and it matters to some people you know.

Rash -: Yeah absolutely. Any plans for any further books Annie.

Annie -: Yeah oh definitely. I’d love to write again but I haven't, I haven't found the subject yet. So yeah.

Rash -: About the future then as we're coming towards the end of the interview what does the future hold for you.

Annie -: Definitely carry on with county cricket matters while it does matter. Because obviously there are changes probably going to happen to the county championship. And if they are ones that aren't going to be good, then I think I'll find it really hard to be supporting it. But while it's something I want to support, then yeah.

Rash -: And keep doing it. We need advocates for it. Well, sadly we've just come to the end, but we ask all our guests five questions. So I've modified them slightly. So if you're ready, question one. Which part of your cricket reporting has actually improved with age, even if no one believes you?

Annie -: Well, OK, it's definitely not my eyes. The more you read, the more you go to cricket, the more anything you learn. You learn a better way of doing things. You learn things all the time. So, yeah, that is an important part. 

Rash -: OK, question two. If your reporting and commentary were a vintage item, what would it be and why?

Annie -: This is a very strange question for this, but I would say I'll say a vintage leather notebook because I take lots of notes and I'm always learning. So my commentary, my reporting is a constant sort of archive, shall I say, of knowledge. 

Rash -: That's a good answer. Good to look back on from time to time. Must have some memories in there. Now, question three. If you could give your younger self a cricketing slap, what would it be for? Now, that can be, obviously, reporting or something you're doing and you think, oh, I shouldn't have done that.

Annie -: Okay, this one is easy. When I was 10, I was playing for Exeter Colts and I was thrown out when they found out I was a girl because that's how the world was then. I would tell myself to fight it and I would go back and carry on playing instead of stopping playing, which I did and didn't take it back up until late 20s. So I would do that. Yeah.

Rash -: Wow. Unbelievable. 

Annie -: I know. 

Rash -: Question four. Which rule of cricket would you rewrite? 

Annie -: Now, this is a tough one. The laws of cricket are made for a reason. I would say every time you know they're still being made now if something happens then that became becomes a law and it carries on. I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to rewrite a law because i think they've been made that way the only thing i would say is i'll change some of the rules maybe in short format cricket.

But no, I'm pretty sure that these laws are there for a reason. There's always a point to most of them. 

Rash -: Yeah. Okay. Well, finally, fifth and final question. Complete this sentence, Annie. Being involved in cricket means? 

Annie -: I can help to influence it.

Rash -: Short and succint, and you certainly can. Well, anyway, we've reached the end of the interview. It's been a real pleasure talking to you. I know you've got a busy rest of the week. You're off watching Test cricket tomorrow, I believe. Yeah, I'm going up to the women's test at Lords. The first test ever to be played at Lords, so it's quite a big moment. So I'm really looking forward to that.

Rash -: Well, listen, have a fantastic day. The weather's going to be set fine. Continue to do what you're doing. You are passionate about county cricket. It comes through in every article I've ever read and, you know, all the YouTube videos. We need advocates for it. There are like-minded people, as you know, myself included, so we're backing you 100%. Maybe not, you know, thumbs up all the time, but we are the silent, silent majority.

But continue to do the work that you do. I wish you well in whatever happens in the future. But for now, Annie, thank you for being a guest on Willows to Wisdom. 

Annie -: Thank you for asking me.

Rash -: You're more than welcome.

CLOSING & THANKYOU

(01:29:40) Rash -: Well that’s it for this episode folks, I hope you enjoyed it. My thanks to Annie Chave for being our special guest, and to Susan for her question. It’s also a big thankyou to Harrison Burridge for all he does to promote England & The Lions via all the social media platforms.

Now the episode notes lists all the ways you can keep up to date on England over 60s cricket, with links to our various social media platforms, and the episode notes also contain the fan mail link, which you can use free of charge to get in touch with us, to submit a question, or get in touch with your observations and suggestions. Or you can email the show. A reminder that our email address is willowstowisdompodcast at gmail.com. 

My thanks to Buzzsprout for hosting us and for the technical help and assistance of Audacity and Auphonics. 

Please like, share, subscribe, and review the podcast, and you can find us via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Castbox or via your usual podcast provider. 

With the World Cup, just round the corner, the next episode will be a preview one, and I’m hoping to speak to key figures from a number of nations about the tournament and get their views. It will be released just prior to the World Cup starting and whilst commentating at the tournament, I’m hoping to include some content from the World Cup itself, so please look out for that. 

I've been your host, Rash Mahmood, and thank you all for listening to Willows to Wisdom, where age isn't a number, it's an advantage. So until next time, it's goodbye from me, and thank you.