Episode 1: How Two Sober People Ended Up Starting a Podcast

In the very first episode of Too Sober For This, recovery expert Shell Righini and comedian Iain Anderson introduce themselves, explain how they met in the comments section of a DJ Fat Tony post, and why two sober people decided to start a podcast about life’s chaos.

Before this podcast existed, Shell actually interviewed Iain on her recovery podcast We Recover Loudly, and that conversation is where the idea for this show really began.

Listen to that episode here : We Recover Loudly Season 3 Ep 9

In This Episode

• How Shell and Iain first connected online
• Shell’s journey through addiction and burnout in hospitality
• The moment that led her to recovery
• How We Recover Loudly began
• Why they decided to start Too Sober For This
• What topics the podcast will explore going forward

Expect uncomfortable questions, strong opinions, dark humour, and plenty of laughing at things we probably shouldn’t.

Because sometimes, even in sobriety we find … we are definitely too sober for this!

NEXT EPISODE QUESTION - GET INVOLVED!!

Next week we’re talking about true love.  So we want to hear from you:

Does true love actually exist?

Send us a DM on Instagram (@toosoberforthispodcast) or WhatsApp +447343057171 with your thoughts and we might feature your opinion in the next episode of Too Sober For This.

Connect With Us

@toosoberforthispodcast

Shell Righini - @shell_righini  Iain Anderson - @iainanderson.comedy

Traumedy Show - https://iainandersoncomedy.com/

Listen to Shell’s podcast We Recover Loudly here on Spotify  

This Podcast Is Brought to You By We Recover Loudly Merch

Bold recovery slogans and wearable reminders that recovery doesn’t have to be quiet.

Shop here: www.werecoverloudly.com

@werecoverloudly

Mastered and edited by Unmuted Studios.  Podcast production, editing, and creative support.

www.unmutedstudios.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Too Sober for This the podcast. My name is I Anderson.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

And my name's Charles Rigini.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And we are so excited to have you here on our first episode. Our podcast is just a couple of pals trying to raw dog life and everything in between. Today's a bit of a getting to know you episode, and I am going to be interviewing my co-host Shell, who you may already know or should already know from We Recover Loudly. Not just the podcast, but a brand. Socks, hats, t-shirts. So I'm going to be interviewing her today as we met when she was actually interviewing me on her world famous podcast way back in April. So let's get to it.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Amazing. Thanks so much for having me on your podcast, Ian. It's a privilege.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Thank you for doing all the work in the background, Cheryl. Designing the poster, setting up the recording, and basically being the woman behind this great, great, great, great, great, great man.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

And it's like, can you remember, was it Little Britain when he was like, writes the theme tune, sings the theme tune? I always think pivot.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

I got one for you. It's so funny because when we first did your podcast, where we recorded it in April, I think it was released a bit later. Um and I remembered it was recorded in April because I was in Paris at the time. We didn't really we didn't know each other. We just we met in the comments section of a DJ Fat Tony post. And now it's funny because we talk quite a lot and we're met up in London, and now we're having to interview each other like the professionals we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I know well, let's be clear, you know, I'm a single gal of a certain age um and of a certain dress size. Therefore, a gay guy is like honey to me. And we were always going to be lifelong friends the moment that we crossed paths because I collect gays, you know, and I just worn out my last one.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

So timing was trade them in.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

This time I traded it in for a weirdly older model, but you know, older yet experienced.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

So what I want to ask you is um, how, first of all, did you get into podcasting?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

What a great question, Ian. Uh thank you. Um, to be honest, I joined AA um four four years ago. I love how I've just said joined as if it was this really conscious and considered dis decision. I was like, what should I do with my Wednesday evenings? I could join AA. Um I crawled through the rubbish, the the rubbish, the rubble and the crap that was my existence um into the open arms of a 12-step programme, um, which uh saved my life at that time and continues to in fairness. And what I didn't realise, what AA really is, is an open stage. And if you play your cards right, sometimes you get to do things called main shares. And if you really play your cards right, they can be like a 25-minute soliloquy, effectively, or monologue. Is it monologue? I don't know. Soliloquy? I I do have an A level in English, who knows? Um, where you just get to talk about yourself. And as an addict, as an alcoholic, I bloody my number one subject is myself, even though I constantly think of myself as a piece of shit, because that's the other great thing about us alcoholics. We're all ego and yet we think of ourselves very little. Um, so I was there giving a uh you know a speech, uh, a monologue. And people were saying to me, you should start a podcast. I don't know if it was a case of like you should leave the meetings and start a podcast because we really don't want to listen to you anymore. Um but that was what spurred it on. Um that was the one reason. The other reason was um I had been in the hospitality industry my whole career, and I was absolutely raging when I got fired for drinking because I couldn't believe I'd been let go from an industry for doing the very thing everybody did. And I'm never going to be somebody that just sucks something like that up and goes, Well, maybe it was a me problem. No. Um, amongst many other things, I'm autistic and therefore I'm very justice. What's the there's a word for it, isn't it? Where they're autistic people just like they fucking love a fight and an injustice, and we're like, I couldn't let it lie. And I knew I couldn't be the only person in my industry that was struggling with substances and alcohol, and yet in an environment that was encouraging it, thinking, what the fucking banana crackers is going on here? And that was also why. £1,500 later, I released an episode. And I got scammed, I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

£1,500?

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Did you buy a flat or what?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

No, but do you know it's just one of those things? I didn't know what I was doing, not that I do now. Um, and yeah, somebody was like, we'll help you get that first one. And in fairness, if it hadn't been for them, because it is difficult to I certainly find it difficult to push myself off that cliff. Um having somebody external to be accountable to who is saying, I've taken all your money, you need to it sounds like a ransom situation actually. I've taken all your money, you need to deliver this by this date, and it will be released. Um was exactly the energy I needed. And you can't get that in fairness from friends, you know, because friends are lovely and you know, they would always say to you, no, don't worry. Um so yeah, so I that was um what are we? That was two years ago? Two, two, two, yeah, two will be three years actually in May kind of time. Will it be? I don't know. I'm not very two years. Who knows? It's been out a while. I don't know. I'm of the age now where numbers don't mean anything. It was 1999 last year, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

I thought you loved numbers. Is that not your thing?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Shut up. I'm not that type of autistic.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

So you got into podcasting to scratch an etch or right or wrong. Right or wrong, yeah. Like yeah, it was like almost like a little bit of resentment to you 1500 pounds a long way.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

And do you know what it is? It's like the great thing about podcasting is as I've just done to you by interrupting, is it's a great way of talking without people interrupting you. Because they literally can't, because it's a recording. Um, it's like the ultimate voice note. Hashtag fucking hate voice notice.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Stop leaving me those one hour, 20 minute voice notes, please.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Honestly, friendships die the moment one of those comes in. I've got one from a dear friend that's four minutes and thirty, and it's I've pinned it to the top of my WhatsApps, and she's going through a really hard time, but I'm kind of like, well, if it's that hard of a time, she probably should have just like text me.

unknown 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

And then you kind of dead. Probably. Um, so yeah, that's the great thing about podcasting. Anyone considering doing one is it's a beautiful platform to share a message. I mean, um, so yeah, and it's it's been a wonderful way to network. I've met so many people, you know, and like I invited incredible chefs and thought leaders and bartenders and that from the industry in the first two seasons and made like lifelong friends. I got invited to New Orleans to do a talk. Like it's just been brilliant. And then the third season, I spoke to people who were not from hospitality from all sorts of backgrounds. So we got a little bit more um bit more, I was gonna say a bit more texture to the episodes, but I don't know where I was going with that word, but I'll do it. Yeah, a bit more texture to the seasons. I think it must be lunchtime. Um, which was really cool because I got to speak to some of my favourite people, but about very different things. So um I had a lovely, awesome person called Readon, who's a sex worker and a sex work educator. It was really interesting talking to her about her world and how drugs are so prevalent, again, out in the open, and just expected. And you know, as always, you find out that there's way more similarities and differences in our lives when we meet people. And I know you talk about that a lot in your show, your world acclaimed show.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

My world, my world, my world acclaimed show. And no, I I think you're right. I think that lots of people come in thinking their problems are very unique and special. And I think it's interesting you say about going into the podcasting space and how it can be so dangerous because I was thinking like the amount of information that we have access to now is also sometimes incredibly helpful, sometimes extremely dangerous. So the I love that you came into podcast via recovery rather than did podcasting to stay sober. Do you get what I mean? Like I think that there's a lot of um self-help and information overload. And a lot of my friends who are not in recovery but have other problems, they have so much knowledge and no action. Um and just this they learn a lot, they can recite things back to you, but their lives are getting worse and worse. And uh always um it's interesting you say that also you came in by spending money. I went to my first, I did my first stand-up show by paying to go into a stand-up comedy class. If I had not done that, I'm a Scotsman. I am doing the course. I paid 300 euros for it, I'm getting my seven minutes worth at the end. Otherwise, I would never have done it on my own.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

100%. And I think that, you know, that's something that it's almost like a not, I wouldn't say self-care, but it is, it's almost like that self-development. You know, I think it's a worthwhile thing to pay for. If you're gonna pay for the gym, not that we do that, but if you're gonna pay for the gym, you're gonna pay for you know what, supplements or whatever it might be. For me, that's a kind of you know, having that budget for self-development isn't necessarily something that we prioritize or even talk about. You know, if you do your budget for the month because we're sober, so now we do that stuff. Um I I don't say like all 20 pounds aside for self-development, because yeah, I that now, even as I'm saying it out loud, sounds a bit wanky. But it's really important, I think, because let's remember like I don't know about you, but I haven't been at school for many, many years. And yet life has continued to baffle me. And therefore, being able to, I think, continue to learn is one of the greatest things that we can do as humans, that ability to continue to educate ourselves and expand our minds and all that shit. And in fact, it's something that I'm really grateful I got back with. I got sober, my brain.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

And your curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

But yeah, 100% my creativity, my my ability to debate in a way that wasn't just so don't know about you, but anytime there'd be a tone or of in a conversation, you'd exp it was an attack attack. So you would just attack back. And you know, like the quickness as well, you know. This is a primarily a comedy podcast, but we're gonna talk about really hard things, but it's gonna be done with hilarity. Um, but that quickness of wit was something that I'd lost in the madness, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

And the and the ability to be wrong, which I think is like I was never wrong ever. Which is interesting because I had very strong opinions for someone whose life was in the toilet. Right. I don't I'll tell you a funny story. I my best friend Fabio, who is definitely watching this because he's got very little to live for. Um, and he and I have been best friends since we were four. He was in the middle of buying a house when I was living in the streets, and I gave him advice on how to buy a house live from the doorstep of the Apple store so I could use the Wi-Fi to WhatsApp calling. I mean, talk about yin and yang. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is not what you want to do. Like, says the man his cardboard box is on the line. Do you know what I mean? Like it's true. And do you know what I'm hearing when you're talking about this? And I and I know this is true, like you really when I guess when listeners are hearing the word self-development, it does sound wanky, but it doesn't always have to be spiritual growth, like you because you've had none of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Um, but it just still absolutely black inside.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, no, she's just she pisses just dust. Yeah, but um other than sweeping conwebs are your knickers, like the there's the you'd really upgraded yourself. You had to learn a whole new way of working. You'd you'd also edit other people's podcasts and do stuff like that. So you you've learned to do a lot, she knows. Oh, I know I love you've had to learn, right? How to prize people, how to ask to get paid, how to like that's really what self-development really is. Yeah, I think sometimes when people hear it, they hear Joe dispends a meditation retreat, you know, 20 days, come back a new man millionaire. You actually will probably pick up a new skill and come back poorer.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

And and with a and yeah, like a weird trigger, trigger word that you didn't realize before suddenly makes you curl up into a fetal position. You're like, that's so bizarre. It's um, but it's weird, like what you were saying about you know, that whole new way of living, that new way of living. And that's one of the things that we get promised in you know, 12-step rooms. We're not going to talk about 12-steps too much. Um, but it will probably come up because it's a big part of both of our existences. Um and and you're right, you do, you kind of have to relearn life. But I do think that that's not unique to people in recovery. I think a lot of us are getting to this age, um, 28, the grand age of 28 that we both were.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Oh I can't believe I made it past the 27 club. The eve of my 28th birthday, I logged myself in my room because I thought this is it. Do you know who actually did that? I read uh Jack White from the White Stripes. He thought you were gonna die on the EV's 20th birthday, like all the legends, and then he woke up in the morning fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

He was like, oh just a regular wanker then.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And he do he is.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, he really is. Um, good musician. But I do think like a lot of us are coming into like these older decades now, and you and I talked about this a lot, how there's just no blueprint for being in your late 30s, being in your 40s anymore, because it's nothing like it was. So we're having to, as much as coming out of and coming from recovery, learn how to live and getting this new way of life as we get promised. Um, I we're not alone. I if anything, I've got all my friends who are going through the same things, and ironically, I'm kind of ahead of the game a bit. I'm like, oh, your life's falling apart. Come over here. Tell me something I haven't already been through.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

I know what you mean. I felt like that when particular, I mean, um, you would have got sober around the pandemic time, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah, four and four and a bit yeah, four and a half years ago. So yeah. I did the first year of COVID drunk and then thought, oh, this isn't fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I need to stop using vodka bottles as a mask. I uh I was already sober when I went into the pandemic and I felt quite smug about it because I had this deep belief that I would be okay. Like I just was like, ah, I'm not gonna, I've already dealt with my crap, and I saw a lot of my friends got sober during the pandemic. And some friends of mine, when I got sober who told me I was boring, one of them was found dead in his flat.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Like just you know, oh and we we used to drink, party, and everything the same. So he was a real example of where I could have been. But what I wanted to ask you was so we've got podcast Shell who came into podcasting via uh just being the star of the 12-step circuit.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Needing a bigger needing a bigger stage, basically.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Took one, there was four people in that meeting, and three of them are deaf. And then so what one of the things that we're hoping to do with this podcast is change people's misconceptions about what it means to be an alcoholic and an addict, or to have not just for drinking drugs, with sex, love, money, whatever the thing is. And people always think, well, I wasn't I'm not that bad. And so can you explain a bit about because I know you your rock bottom look different from mine, yeah. And how we grew up, you've got, you know, family and stuff still in your life. So, like, what was uh what was young shell like and what was professional shell like?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Oh wow, well someone's done some homework and some pre-written questions. Um I found out when I was um one year, I think, into sobriety that I was ADHD and then the year after autistic. So it the reason I reference it is it explains why I was the way I was as a young shell, and young shell was always too loud, cheeky. I think we got described, I think that's quite a common thing to get described as cheeky when you're um when you're one of me. Um and I was very in my head, I thought a lot, big thinker. Um, I love to read, I would read really um ferociously, you know, I'd be like at the dinner table with the book propped up, eating dinner, you know, spoonful. And I would immerse myself in the world of the book that I was reading. So very kind of like imaginative. Um, and I was always or frequently told I was too sensitive. You know, I was quite, and again, that's a really common thing to be told, you know, I would feel things a bit more than other people. Um, and I really struggled to make like a close, close connection. I would do again, which is it's so funny, it's like it's almost textbook, you know, you you think that you're unique, special, and different. You get this diagnosis, and it's like textbook. Um, I would always have like one very good friend, and we'd go through maybe a year or two years, and then it'd be like the next season, and it would be the hyper focus, would be the next really intense friendship, and then the next, and um, which makes me sound like I'm a pick them up and drop them, um, kind of. Um, but again, it was one of those. And I was a chameleon, you know, I'd be like, Well, what's this person like? I'll be like them, you know, trying to find that who I was through that kind of um association. I guess, well, through that mirror of kind of mirroring people or through that um survival tactic, I suppose, of mirroring people. It was always really challenging. But I did love music, I loved um rock and uh indie music and grunge music. That was my safe place. And from a very young age, I got my first Walkman when I was 10 years old. Uh, you might need to Google that, children. Um, and it was white, you know, tape cassette one with the little, the really painful, wiry, you know, things they used to buy singles on cassettes, you know. Remember going into Hold World?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Remember Sango's Wellworth's 49 pence. Yeah, well, my reduced single.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

The bands that I liked were normally in the reducer because I was into Brit pop and everything. And you know, that was my whole thing. I would just listen to these bands and enemy magazine. Enemy, which used to be a newspaper. Can you remember when it was a newspaper? Oh my gosh, you remember that Melody Maker. And that was what I wanted. I just desperately wanted to be a part of that world when I grew when I grew up. I knew that I wanted to be in music and I wanted to be a rock star. And I think it was because I just would see how adored they were and how secure they seemed in their identity, and that was what I was aspiring for. You know, I wanted to feel adored, I wanted to be loved, I wanted to be centre stage, and I wanted to be confident within myself, which was what I was kind of viewing these people as being. You know, Courtney Love was a massive influence on me. I loved her, I wanted to be her hashtag now.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

I am gonna still love her.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Hashtag desperately trying to get her a pair of socks. That's my new mission, by the way, but we'll discuss that offline.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Courtney shows your hole.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah. Courtney, shows your who's. I've got socks for you.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Now, obviously, jumping around from friend to friend. Um, I wonder who's going to be hosting this with you next week. But also, do you have and what about your family? What was your relationship like with do you have brothers, sisters?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I have um an older sister who's a half-sister who we didn't grow up with. Um, and then I've got my younger sister who's four years younger. So it's an interesting age gap because when I left for uni, she was kind of down. Um, she was like 14. So I kind of left her during her formative years, which I didn't realise affected her until kind of afterwards that she said, you know, it was actually really hard being the only person at home when um at those top during that kind of age period. But we were we were enemies really growing up, you know. We were just, you know, I think I was probably a little bit annoying if she would contest uh that that would be so I think, yeah, we're very, very different. We've got very different temperaments, my younger sister. Um but the great thing again about recovery, and I've shared about it on my podcasts um as well, is that you know, getting the opportunity to re-establish those relationships and look at each other a little bit like you can with your parents to an extent as um adults, adult to adult versus child to child. Um and you know, we very much become more like allies than enemies, I always say now, but now that we're grown. Um but yeah, I mean, apparently I was annoying. I don't know, where's the evidence? Um but yeah, my sister and I are just very different. She's very quiet. Well, she's not very quiet, but she's more quiet, she's more considered, she's more intelligent. Uh she's travelled a lot, she's worked in a lot of different countries. Um again, I'm sure nothing to do with me, but she was made quite a swift exit from the UK as soon as she could.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Oh, so is this this sounds like the plot of Wicked 3?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Uh oh my god, don't make this podcast that gay. We cannot have Wicked referencing him.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

I am I'm a gay that doesn't like Wicked. I think we just got cancer.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Oh my god, yeah, I refuse to watch it because I am far too cool to watch anything that popular. And I stand by that.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

She's watching it.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

I mean absolutely not. Absolutely not. But I watch it when it's not popular.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

We had so you had probably, and I you know, I've heard this a lot in recovery as well. Like um everyone feeling like they're on the outside looking in, or that people have the manual for life and they don't.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

But it's funny that we talk about this frosty glass looking at the world through frosted glass, you know, you're just like, Yeah. And every day you think, fuck, I fucked it up again, and you don't know why, but you just go to bed with that deep sense of messing up.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

I think so, but I think that a lot of you know, I've I've realized it's not just us. It's like, I think I'm of the opinion, just from being on Instagram now, like, you know, that I almost started uh with social media a couple of years ago when I started comedy, and until then, everyone is desperately. I think that's why social media has been so like important to people, because people have felt everywhere so misunderstood. And now we have the ability to be able to find people who are just like us or who understand what we're saying. The problem is it also is causing people to live in a bit of a bubble at times, and it's that thing where lots of people I know will, you know, we learn in recovery to see the similarities, not the differences. And I'll be sitting beside someone who does not look like me, does not act like me, does not love like me, doesn't move through life like me, but they this feeling of disconnection that they have had their whole life is just there. Um and I always think that's really interesting, you know, that feeling of um just kind of not quite fitting in.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Have you not been diagnosed as near age of urgent yet?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

I don't think I want to know.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

It's a bit like chlamydia, it's better if you just don't know.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I have a friend who's uh uh a friend who is a psychologist, therapist, and she talked to me one day like I with the assumption I had ADHD. And I, you know, I thought about going to get a diagnosed, but then I thought to myself, I've been very lucky over the years, I've kind of figured out how my brain works, and I'm able to just accommodate it. Like it doesn't cause me any harm. Yeah, like I don't feel I if I do have it, I don't have it. I think everybody probably has a version of it nowadays due to just environment or phones, you know, hyperactive. Like there's I there is definitely I have some of the classic symptoms, but they don't really impact me because I because I'm aware of them and I know what to do. So I set timers for myself, I'd make lists. Like I've been able to navigate a corporate life and now a creative life doing that. But it is true, like there's a lot of us in recovery who are probably somewhere on can neurodivergent spectrum, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah, some some of us call it a rainbow, but again, I think your people took rainbows. Um but like just purely the reason I ask is because exactly that, you know, that is a very common um way of um showing up, a way of experiencing the world is with that through that neurodivergent lens. And I know in another episode we're gonna really get into uh in a future episode talking about neurodivergence and you know, the whole kind of narrative around it being a superpower and the the the how many people are suddenly now neurodivergent, and we're gonna get really into the topic of it, um, which I'm excited about. But um yeah, I think that it is like you say, the the reason I'm kind of pausing a little bit is because I think it is a very common way that neurodivergent people show up. But I also think, like you've alluded to, um, it's almost like a common it's like the condition of now is that isolation, that loneliness, that inability to connect and to be personable and all of that stuff is it's almost like a bigger, it feels bigger than just going, oh well, it's because half of them are neurodivergent. It's like a societal lack of, you know, it's like we've all been unplugged from society. No, but do you know what I mean? Like, because I know for a fact that I have many friends who aren't neurodivergent, even though I keep diagnosing them as such, um, who completely relate to that feeling of finding it really, really hard to find their place in the world to connect. And, you know, as we were talking about just before, you know, you know, this whole new way of living that we get, there's so many people, my peers, who are also going, hang on a minute, this isn't we didn't get the roadmap for how to live late 30s, early 40s, being single, no pension, no house, no and no kids, you know, whatever it might be, you know, but the way that our parents grew up is just not, it doesn't exist. And they're all looking to us in a weird way for answers, hey, recover glut. And we're like, sorry, sorry, hit your rock button, and then we'll chat.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah, I wonder what the next I wonder what the next uh generation's going to be like because they're having like an anti-tech movement, you know, like I think is quite interesting. Yeah, like drinking and drugging is lower, but everybody has new lips every weekend. Like there is a like there's definitely an undercurrent of distraction happening kind of globally. Like so recently, I don't believe in New Year's resolution, but recently I um decided to not interact with my phone in the morning. And so I get up in the morning and my my arm goes off. My partner gets up his six, he's a nurse. Um, so we're up early.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

He's not your he's not your nurse, just to confirm.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

He's not my nurse yet, but I'm I'm planning my retirement through manage. Uh so yeah, I don't look at my phone in the morning and I take off my smartwatch, and I walk the dogs and everything with no devices. Wow. Um I've been doing the first what the deal is the first hour and a half of the morning, no devices, no caffeine. And I have noticed a marked improvement in my mood because the I noticed I have a stand-up comedian, so my phone is where I get through my as my colleague. The minute I start replying to messages, my that's it. I'm sitting on the toilet and I've I've I don't even realize I've finished.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Thanks for that image. Um, yeah, that's that's amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Well, I saw it on a podcast and I thought I'm gonna try that, and it has really helped. Not and not interacting with it's an old stoic principle. If you start replying to emails and messages first thing in the morning, you become a feature in someone else's life and not in your own. And so I give myself the first hour and a half of the day just for me and my thoughts, and it's it's really helping. But what I wanted to ask you was so what about when did was there a time during your work life because you worked in hospitality where you suddenly noticed the unmanageability of it all?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Um, to be honest, it became an absolute shit show so much earlier than I kind of raised that white flag because working in an industry where excess is just it's out in the open, it's accepted. You know, if if you if you were working at Tesco's and you came in hung over on a Tuesday repeatedly, you know, Susan would be like, Do we need to have a conversation? You do that in the in the restaurant industry, and then you get a pat on the back from the chef, you get a bacon sandwich, you know, you were probably out with your manager, so he's not saying anything. And um, and especially then when you become the manager, because that's another thing in our industry, we we promote people far too early because you know, there's this desperation, desperate need for staff. So you've got really inexperienced young people managing big businesses, so much pressure on their shoulders, given absolutely no coping mechanisms, no training at all when it comes to how to deal with stress, other than have a beer after service, have a have a shot at midnight, you know. And I used to learn really fast. Again, this is another ADHD thing. I would come into a new job and it I would be like the best thing that they'd ever seen. You know, people would be like, oh my God, how have we worked without her before? This she is shining light. I would be putting in new systems, I'd be smashing targets, and I would burn so bright and I would fade so quickly because very quickly they would realise that actually, not that I didn't have the ability, but that it was a lot of it in show and that underneath it all, there was a lot of fear and that there was a lot of doubt. And, you know, I really struggled with the kind of the paperwork side of stuff, but I would never ask for help and I would just always pretend to be fine, and that's where drinking kind of came in. And drinking came in, like I said, encouraged with people. Should we have a shot at midnight? Who wants a you know, and then obviously what goes really well with a work, an afterwork beer, the bag of cocaine. And my relationship with drugs was very, very unique compared to my peers. But again, something I've now learned is connected to having that neurodivergent brain is that I would, anytime I would use drugs, I would get really, really tired and really sleepy. And sometimes it would be the only thing that would turn my brain off. And so where you'd have everybody else doing drugs and chatting each other's ears off and you know, just going mad, I was known within my friends' group to toddle off at a house party and go to bed. And I would just go sleep on a pile of coats. And I and in fact, the more I took, the longer she slept. Um, and so again, you know, I did not having that kind of normal, I suppose, reaction to them. They were great for me because it was all I wanted was peace. And that was the one thing I never got with a brain that goes at a thousand miles an hour and at the time was saying all of the things to me that deep down, you know, I knew were true, but also hated, i.e., you're failing, you're making a mistake, you're fucking this one up again, people are not happy with you. You know, da da da da. Never anything nice, you know. It was never just like a running commentary of like, you got this girl, your hair looks great today. You should wear pink more often.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Wouldn't that be the best? Wouldn't that be the best internal voice of all time?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Oh my god, imagine if you did cocaine and then that was the voice that turned on. Like, you have got I think that is actually true for some people. Um, and so yeah, I I mean, I obvious the classic of you know, burn bright, burn out, go find somewhere else to work. Burn bright, burn out. I would always, and again, this is a challenge in our industry or in the industry I used to be in. Every time I would leave one job, I would go to the next. I would immediately I would be promoted. I'd never go in at a lower level. I'd actually always go in at a higher level, again, because of the desperation and the desperate need that people have um for people with any kind of experience in our industry. So even that almost was kind of like a um, it was like a positive reinforcement that, all right, well, screw you, old workplace, because I've now gone and got promoted and I've got a pay rise. So maybe it actually was you, it wasn't me. And it's only now that you realize, oh, actually, that's um, you know. And so yeah, there were many. I think I've always said that, like, you know, the universe whispered to me so many times until I got to my actual rock bottom, which was when the universe went, Are you fucking kidding me? What do you believe? He's from Earth to make it. And you know, my rock bottom is something that is, I don't know, sometimes you hear people share about their rock bottoms and you just think, fucking hell, that's like I heard about this one one guy, one very dear friend, tells me about how he was so absolutely fucked, he fell into a skip and wrapped himself in barbed wire because he thought it was a blanket.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

I mean Fuck, that's good call.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

But but what a story, right? Um, where do you know what I mean? And so yeah, I've always been a bit like, hmm. And my story was just like I really tried to stop drinking on my own. I really tried and I did it in secret because I was so ashamed. And I did the whole to my family. Yeah, no, I'm not drinking, I'm fine, I don't need help. You know, whatever, it's fine. It's only I don't need a glass of wine, it's fine. I don't, and it, you know, the truth was that I couldn't do it on my own because I needed people around me and needed to know people who were just like me to support me to say, you know, my phone was empty. I had no people really checking up on me. I was still very lucky to have the friends in my life from back then, but like I pushed them away, you know, they weren't messaging me like they do nowadays, just checking in. Like we didn't have relationships, and you know, so I was white knuckling it and I was alone. So I would get like two weeks, three weeks, and then I'd go, well, probably not a problem then, is it? I'll get three grams of cocaine and seven bottles of rose because I haven't got a problem, you know, and disappear for three days and start the cycle again because, you know, I wasn't didn't have an issue. And, you know, that carried on for about a year until I had just, I think I'd not drank for about, I think it was, I'd probably not drank for a good three, four weeks. Again, it was like, you know, I'd had this run and I'd been aware of AA and I'd had a little bit of help and a little bit of an insight into the rooms, but again, done the whole thing that's not for me, not for me. Don't need to be there. I'd made them all laugh, I'd done my bit. And I'd say, all right, guys, I'll show up again next week and drop some crop some gold for you. Um, but I wasn't there for me, I was there for them. And and and I and I picked up and my sister caught me, and you know, she was so angry at me because you know, families, when you haven't got, or if you have got experience of addiction, which my family does, but in an um my not my not my parents then grandparents, that's what they're called, like that area um age group. And it was just anger because you know, anger and fear, I think, have got a very kind of very fine line between anger and fear, and because they didn't know what to do, and they were so fearful for my life, they were very angry. And it was a case of like, what are you doing? And I just couldn't do it anymore. I just left the house and I thought I can't do this. I was in my car and I just was driving, and I thought, I've got nothing else, I've got no other options. And I drove my car into what I thought was a wall on purpose and to end my life. Um, it ended up being a bush, not a wall. Um, so the bush, and you know, in a weird way, the bush was the bush saved me. Saved by the bush. I should do that on a t-shirt. You love that, you bloody lesbian. Um, and then yeah, I went to AA that next day, and it was a case of like, you know, at that stage, I, you know, I couldn't pretend that anything was fine. And immediately what got swept up in this community, and that's for me what saved my life was that community. Like I said, I went from having no friends from that very next day having like five, six, seven, eight, nine women messaging me, going, like, are you all right? What you doing? What you doing next? What are you doing next? Like, literally, it was like even if I'd wanted to not be well anymore, it was impossible. I was swarmed. And that's what I love about any kind of sober program that offers community. And that's again a lot of what you do with your show and what I do with We Record The Loudly is about showing that you are not alone. That's what kills people, thinking that they're alone.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Do you know? So, yeah, thank you wishing that's now.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

No, it's important that the people know, and I think like that's exactly it. Like, you know, that's why I'm not a fan of self-help. Like it it um perpetuates the idea that you can do it alone at home with so true. Yeah, but but it's so dangerous. Like, you know, when I I ended up sectioned because of a failed suicide attempt, which was a conclusion I came to because I tried to do the work on my own. I was in a bar writing out a list of all the things I'd ever done wrong in my life. And the common denominator was me, which was a very useful piece of information. But I was a crazy guy in active addiction with no tools. So the best idea I could come up with was, oh, I should remove myself from the situation. You know, self-there's people have such a dim view of you know, groups, recovery, medical professionals, but they exist for a reason. You know what I mean? Like people come in complaining about their doctors, but they've only ever lied to them. You know, like Google is not the same as spending time with an actual trained therapist. Yeah. Like AI's got people walking off of bridges. I mean, like, you know, it's there is this idea that we're constantly looking at ways to be less connected while simultaneously being over connected digitally. And I think like one of the things I would always encourage people to do above all else is to have IRL experiences with people, hold actual hands, hug actual people and feel actual connection, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Well, that's the that's the thing. It's that word that we use so much, and I use it a lot, authentic, you know. I'm an I use it in my brand, I'm an authentic brand, you know, we share authentic stories, and yet the connection that we have, you know, is like you say, is anything but it's not authentic connection. And I don't think it's necessarily, and actually, as I'm talking, I think that would be a really great uh topic for all of our future episodes, is talking about digital connection and stuff like AI and that, because I don't necessarily think that you can't be as connected with a person through a computer. I've got some of the most important people in my recovery and in my life. I've never met them in real life. I've known them for four and a half years. They're the people I'd call the moment that everything goes to shit. You know, you and I get on better when we don't see each other.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Okay, I don't know who you are.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

But do you know what I mean? So I don't necessarily think it's a case of like, well, the computers are the reason that we have this divide. And I think that there are, it's you mentioned AI. For me, AI has been an absolute game changer in a positive way. So we should definitely talk about this. Um, and you know, speaking of said future episodes, as I seamlessly segue into the kind of closing comments of this first episode, um, we spent a lot of time um talking about what we were going to base this podcast around. We knew we wanted to do something funny because we're just so fucking funny, it's impossible not to just do something that's hilarious. Um, we knew we wanted to talk about the reality of being in recovery, but we want to talk about life not necessarily for just people who are in recovery and who are sober, but just generally for anybody navigating the world. And then we kind of landed on the idea of talking about slight, slightly provocative, provocative, provocative, provocative, provocative, competitive um subjects, because it means that we can really get into the meat of it. Um so we're we're we're gonna do an episode all about addiction and we want to talk about, you know, is it a disease? Isn't it? What what what benefit do we get from it when we call addiction a disease or is it a cop-out? Is it escape? Um we're gonna talk about neurodivergence and the rise of neurodivergence. The rise of neurodivergence.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

The rise.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

The rise. And in fact, is it a rise?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

You know, um the rise, you can actually buy neurodivergence in the middle aisle in Aldi.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Um, I've got some socks that you can wear when you are rising into your neurodivergence. Um, we really want to talk about wellness and self-help, like you've just mentioned, but like that weaponization of wellness um and how it's used. I think, like you said, there's the danger of it being used when people try and cure, cure things that that that self they need more than self, but also anyone who's been uh let down or stood up because someone's put a boundary in on a Friday night and no longer wants to hang out with you. That episode will be for you. Um I said, what else are we talking? I really want us to do an episode on love because somebody's recently gotten engaged.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Yes. You but I have what Yes, I just got engaged. I just got engaged before Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

I've just realized how much the word engaged sounded like you said engaged.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Like that's how I've been spelling it on Instagram by Capitol G A Y, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I love that. Um, but yeah, talk about a little bit about true love and you know how it can exist in this world, especially older, because you're like an elder lover now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I'm a four I'm a 41-year-old, couldn't run in it, could had to stop running. So, as an elder lover, you know, what does elderly But it's it's interesting because it ties in as well with this um hyperconnectivity but being so lonely. Where we've never had access to more information around mental health, nutrition, and relationships, and we're all single out of shape and depressed. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's happening, and I I've seen it happen to lots of friends of mine who they hallmark moment their their lives and actually. Me and my partner Leo, our lives are pretty mundane and I like it that way. And it took being an active addiction to teach me that. Bang. You know, like the the be the beautiful thing about being sober is the ordinary moments in your life that feel very extraordinary. Because I don't know about you, but when I was in the depths of my despair, going to the shop was like a mission. It was just, you know, being able to go to the supermarket and buy whatever I want. Like it I'm eight years clean and I still can't go over it.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Literally.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Um, I think translates into everything.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah, I went to the shop last week and I even bought chicken. And I couldn't believe it that my total came to like 27 quid. And I was just like, the fucking amount of money we used to spend. I messaged everyone I knew going, I've just I've just done a three-day shot for 27 quid and I bought chicken. Mental. I know. It's just crazy. Um, thank you so much for the grilling.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

You are weighed that chicken. Is that chicken?

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Like the chicken, I am done. Um, I'm really excited um about what we've got coming up. Um, you know, we're like I said, the reason it's called uh Too Sober for this is because we do want to get into some slightly uh you know controversial questions. I wouldn't necessarily say that we are Pierce Morgan, but also not huge. Not long.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

But we are simultaneously.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Um we're going to be really active on socials. We really want people to get involved. We want you to send in your opinions and things. So um if you're hearing this, um Fabio, please do send us a WhatsApp and mum. Or will you if any of the three of you um have got any questions, please do um and uh yeah, we'll have all of the links to absolutely everything you need in the show notes. Um anything else you'd like to add? I've just taken over the outro of this episode. Um anything can you say?

SPEAKER_00 45:58

No, I'd I'd have I definitely want to see people getting involved because I feel we really come into our own when we are this when we're in live conversation. And so in order to do that, we need things coming in from the listeners so that we can respond. Respond is our art form. If there's one thing we are is master riffers.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Exactly. So just give us something to riff on. Exactly. Well start being like improv, it'll be like somebody sent in share, doctor appointment, slug. Let's go. Could be could be an episode there. Um, yeah, thanks so much everybody for listening. And uh, if you have enjoyed it, uh Fabio, my mom, please do share it and uh buy us a coffee.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yeah, please.