Midlife Youth Club
These midlife mates have been pals since their teens. Sarah's a writer & psychologist, Cameron’s a film & TV actor, both are still trying to get the hang of being grown ups. Join them for chat, laughs & midlife palaver. Everyone welcome.
Midlife Youth Club
Ep 5 : Does appearance matter?
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In this episode Sarah and Cameron discuss looks. Does it really matter what you look like or is your appearance just a skin handbag to carry all the important stuff, you know... bones n lungs n personality n that.
Also explored: Bette Midler, sky diving and the best 1980s music.
Welcome to Midlife Youth Club. My name is Sarah Simons.
SPEAKER_01And I am Cameron Jack.
SPEAKER_03So this week on Midlife Youth Club, why don't you tell us a little bit about what Midlife Youth Club is, Cameron? Sorry, I just tamped you there. As if I was did it spit on you again. Oh, I'm members of spit it. It looked a little bit like I was your carer, once it then.
SPEAKER_01Because I've got a grandad show.
SPEAKER_03Why don't you tell us about what Midlife Youth Club is?
SPEAKER_01Midlife Youth Club, ladies and jelly spoons, is really about gen X and people of a similar elk navigating midlife in the form of a youth club.
SPEAKER_03It's us trying to be grown up and trying to work out what it is to be a grown-up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03While not really feeling it at all most of the time.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03So this week.
SPEAKER_01Do you think I look nice?
SPEAKER_03I do think you look nice. You look very smart.
SPEAKER_01Well, week one, scruff, hair slick back, looking like a junior Ray Winston. Then I thought, no, I need to up my game. And can I just say I love this?
SPEAKER_03Thank you. I'm kind of into a let an animal print at the moment, and I've got to that age where I see animal print as kind of you know bland, you know, just uh uh what do I mean? Not bland, I see it as a safe, as a safe, safe one, you know. There's there's beige and there's there's black and there's navy and there's and then there's all animal prints. Yeah, it's nice. I like it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for thanks for letting me interrupt you.
SPEAKER_03No, it's it's okay. Treat yourself. So this week we're gonna be talking about um sorry, I just felt something roll down my arm, and I thought, oh no, did I pop a biscuit up my sleeve? I didn't. It's just one of those bracelets that my lovely friend Sarah got me.
SPEAKER_02That's nice.
SPEAKER_03Um that has a little bit dangling off it, and it just fell into my hand. And obviously the first thing I thought was, oh, did I pop a biscuit or a sandwich up my sleeve? I didn't.
SPEAKER_01We're talking about appearance, aren't we?
SPEAKER_03We are.
SPEAKER_01And we've already talked about you, me, oh that's why you said it, isn't it? It wasn't, actually. But I just realised.
SPEAKER_03Oh I thought we were being like more organised than we usually are, which is not very.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_03So the theme this week is, and it's a question. The question is how important is appearance?
SPEAKER_00But before we get there, let's open with our icon of the week.
SPEAKER_03Icon of the week.
SPEAKER_01I'm really sorry about the singing. It's like Cameron Jack. Who is your icon of the week? So I consider myself to be an educated man.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01And a man who likes many different things, music, speaking, got his fingers in many pies. Yes, oh, madam. Oh and uh I've got to this week uh go for Novak Djokovic. He's incredible. 38 now, 24 grand slams, he's got the career grand slam. I mean, I'll be on tennis. Tennis. Not paddle.
SPEAKER_03Not paddle, because I'm going to my first ever paddle class tonight.
SPEAKER_01She's going to paddle tonight.
SPEAKER_03So don't really know what it is, but I'm up for it.
SPEAKER_01It's uh table tennis for middle class people. Oh, is it?
SPEAKER_03Can I wear my glasses on a on a chain like that?
SPEAKER_01People love paddle, don't they?
SPEAKER_03I I just got I thought I want to try some.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, apparently, and I was being facetious earlier, apparently it's incredible, incredible exercise, great community. My boss at Jamie Johnson FC, which I'm in, uh BBC I player, thank you, seasons one, two, three, and four. Um Joe Talbot is mad about paddle. He was a really good tennis player. Get back to Novak in a minute, but he loves paddle and he's like so passionate about it. It says the community aspect of it's brilliant, but great exercise.
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't do any sort of exercise that's community nurses.
SPEAKER_01You do reform as pilots.
SPEAKER_03I do reform as pirates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Pilates.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but that's like you're on your own, it's not a team thing. No. There's other people there.
SPEAKER_01Is there a sadness to it? A problem. That's the most I've made you laugh since we started. Is there a sadness? Let's write a book about it. Is there a sadness to reformers Pilates?
SPEAKER_03Only in the price.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay.
SPEAKER_03There isn't a sadness to it, but it isn't, it isn't a team sport.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, with reformers Pilates, you're on a you're on a machine wooden machine thing, and you you know, your legs and your arms are being dragged all over the place. You're engaging your core, which is this bit, yeah, your tongue, you're engaging, and so it does it does a lot of work for you, but it isn't. I wanted to do something that was team that you'd work with other people, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Joe Tolbert is mad about it, he just swears by it.
SPEAKER_03Let's go back to Joe Back, who is in Teddy.
SPEAKER_01So 38 years old that made the Aussie open final um last weekend, lost to Carlos Alcaraz. He's got 24 grand slams Djokovic. Obviously, he played in that era with Nadal, uh, Federer, uh Andy Murray.
SPEAKER_03Say Federer again in the world.
SPEAKER_01Federer, Federer, um so to win that many titles while those others were playing is incredible. He just needs one more major to go past Margaret Court to 25. Then he becomes the Margaret Court, the female player who's got 24 Grand Slam titles. So more than Graf, more than Navratilova. So but what's in what's incredible is he's 38. Most tennis players at that age are kind of winding down, but he's got this incredible sort of force and energy that just I think he's so determined to get it. I would love to see him do it. He wasn't my favourite player when those four greats were playing. Uh for obvious reasons I loved Andy Murray. I don't know why, but um he's just incredible, yeah. He's a property.
SPEAKER_03I don't know many tennis players. I of those ones you said, obviously, I know Andy Murray and that one called Tim. I wanted to say once, oh I wanted to say Tim Peak, but he's the astronaut. Yeah, yeah. And obviously Martina Navrox is lover because she's chief lesbian.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she is, yeah.
SPEAKER_03But she's you know, good honour for it. And apparently she's a marvellous tennis player as well.
SPEAKER_01She was brilliant, yeah. She played to a ripe old age as well. Yeah, but he is the icon of the week for me. I just just the the achievements at that age in that sport. Yeah, uh it's so I don't I've played tennis a couple of times, I believe it's incredibly taxing on the body. So um it can he seem to be able to play through hamstring injuries and blisters, just the mental strength is incredible. Al Caraz, who beat him already on, I think, four majors, he's incredible. He's only 22.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that's my icon of the week. Oh new bulls, please, and yours.
SPEAKER_03Mine is the divine Bet Middler. I've loved Bet Middler ever since I can remember. I have. I can remember being a little girl and love a camp icon, don't you? Love a camp icon. I just love the idea that they don't need permission to be who they are, you know, that there's a kind of wild l wildness to it.
SPEAKER_01She's got that, she's got that energy. She's incredible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I love that whole individual, individualistic thing, and being kind of being a little bit grand, but at the same time taking the piss out of yourself for being a little bit ground, a little bit grand.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, and knowing that you can do that, yeah, um, being so self-aware that you can do that. And it seems to me that those sort of characters who are those like huge character characters like her, especially.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Joan Revers was like that as well.
SPEAKER_03Joan Rivers. I love Joan Revers. Joan Rivers, loved Joan Rivers. She was brilliant, yeah, and terrifying, I should imagine. Yeah, she was and overstepped the mark a lot, a lot. And me and Nick Sutcliffe went to see her when she on our last tour, and this is a lad we were at college with who's fabulous.
SPEAKER_02He's brilliant.
SPEAKER_03And we've mentioned them before. Yeah, yeah. I know, it keeps keeps crapping up.
SPEAKER_01When we talk about camp icons, yeah, next name seems to pop up.
SPEAKER_03Well, me and me and Nick went to see her at um Joan Rivers, this is uh in Nottingham, and she was amazing. But even for me and him, who sometimes are a little bit near the knuckle in how we chat, even for me and him, we both went yeah, too bad. And she was in her 80s then.
SPEAKER_01She didn't kill the child.
SPEAKER_03Didn't give a shit, and she was so clever, wasn't she? I loved that. Um Bet Midler, absolutely love her, and she's one of the three people who, if I ever met, I've got planned for what I would do. If I met if I saw her on the street, if I planned this when we went to when every time I go to New York, I plan what I would do if I met Bet Midler.
SPEAKER_01Liza Minnelli.
SPEAKER_03No, actually, no, not Liza. Bet Midler, Ina Garten, the barefoot Contessa. Okay. That is she's a chef lady who I absolutely adore, and Dolly Parton. Right. I don't know what Dolly would be doing in New York because I think she she lives in uh Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, don't she, in Dollywood? I don't think she lives there, but you know. Um but any of those three, I would just say thank you. Yeah. That's all I would say. Unless I'm and they'd probably go, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_01And I'd less familiar with the barefoot woman.
SPEAKER_03Barefoot Contessa, she's a huge chef. Um well, she's not a chef, she's like a home cook.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Um she's in her 70s now, and she's had um TV, she's massive in America, not so much over here, but she's very kind of refined and gentle, and her and her husband live in um upstate New York in um in the Hamptons. Right. And she has this huge, great big house. She's very, very wealthy. Yeah. Um uh she and she was in um she worked in the White House before she she got herself a delicatessen in in um yeah, she was she helped write the uh nuclear energy strategy. She worked for several presidents and then she started doing a bit of kookery, and it all got out of hand, and now she's like one of the biggest chefs, and she's very in her programmes, she uses a lot of butter, a lot of cream, and she always has a couple of homosexuals, Bob Brown.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay.
SPEAKER_03They always come round and everybody's very high-end, very high-end gays involved. Yeah, um, all her friends are like directors, producers, you know, massive film stars and stuff. She had Tyler Taylor Swift round. Did she? Yeah, yeah, but uh she Bob Brown try something. She's marvellous anyway. Yeah, but Bet Middler, and I like how rude Bet Middler is. And seeing some of the earlier stuff, stuff she did in the 70s and early 80s when she was doing like a lot of comedy in her well, she does any always does a lot of comedy in her um in her musical stuff, but so rude, yeah, and quite shockingly so. And um, but I I loved that, and that she was so strange and unusual, and and now she's properly got a voice as well on yeah, she is not keen on Donald Trump, and she is very, very clear about it, and sometimes in a hilarious way.
SPEAKER_01Singing voice as well, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Singing, acting. She's just got she's such a huge personality and so kind of at ease with being exactly who she is, which I I love that.
SPEAKER_01And that is your icon of the week.
SPEAKER_03Icon of the week.
SPEAKER_01Well done, well done. We seem to have a theme though when we sing it. Not particularly in tune, but it's still no.
SPEAKER_03I mean saying the word singing is a bit of a push, yeah, isn't it? What's next? Well, let's go to our big question.
SPEAKER_00Question? Sorry, I'm not.
SPEAKER_03No, no, too far, too far. Um, which is how important is appearance? What do you think, Cameroon?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Well just an exam example. Today you're in you're looking very smart, very put together. How do you feel in this outfit? And do you feel different? Do you feel different in this outfit than you would in something else?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I am I live in tracksuits. Uh go to the gym four or five times a week, so just tracksuits and lounge wear. Um leisure wear.
SPEAKER_03I got smart leisure wear.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh yeah, leisure and pleasure. I got smartened up slightly because of this thing that we do, the Midlife Youth Club. And er, obviously, week one, I kind of went a little bit more sporty cash, and I just thought, no, let's use us, which is a good one. Yeah, so this is a kind of smart version of me. Uh in terms of appearance, for me, I probably have to think about appearance more because of the job. So if you've just tuned in for the first time, actor, mainly TV and film 30 odds.
SPEAKER_0385 years he's been a working actor.
SPEAKER_01Um so yeah, so for example, I have to factor in things like because you noticed I had a wee cheeky haircut the this morning. I have to factor in things like if I get this boring, but bear with me, if I get a haircut, how does that affect my casting? Yeah. So if I've for example, if I went and shaved my head, which I quite like to do and I have done it before, that then things like copper's and period drama, that then affects any castings that come in. So tomorrow I've got a casting for a big American drama which shoots in Dublin, and I'm not being a dick, but I just can't obviously NDA and all that. I've not got the job yet. So I then have to think ahead about how do I need to look for that for Friday when the audition came in on Monday. So I have to f and also what suit I'm gonna wear, would I wear a tie, all that? So the other thing about appearance doing the job, as you know, because you did it long enough, you you kind of have to be, for want of a better word, you have to be presentable.
SPEAKER_03Is it is it with your appearance being almost kind of part of the product that you're selling of yourself as an actor, yeah. Are you able to distance put any distance between your appearance and how marketable that is as an actor and your appearance and how you feel about yourself, or are they one and the same?
SPEAKER_01They feel like one and the same. Like it's all a stock answer, but it's all kind of tied up. Um Yeah, you're always thinking about headshots, casting, what what sort of age bracket do I sit in? Would I change if I change my look, would that help? If I grew a beard, would that help? Does clean she clean shaving help? Would that character wear glasses? So it's just constant, and because auditioning, not getting the job necessarily, but auditioning is part of the job, there's a constant focus on appearance. Yeah. I'm most comfortable like if I had to wear one thing on my last day on earth that I feel like me in, it would be a kilt. Oh what do you? Yeah, pair of boots, hand knitted socks, sporing belt, t-shirt, leather jacket. That's when I feel like yeah.
SPEAKER_03How often do you wear a kilt?
SPEAKER_01Not often, special occasions, worn one to a film premiere.
SPEAKER_03Um think you'd be needing to wear a kilt on one of our episodes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01I'll wear it. And I think it's called you dear. We'll have to watch it. I'm sitting there. Um but that have you got the legs for a kilt?
SPEAKER_03I bet you have. I have, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I have got a wee chunky legs. Nice. I think and I don't like as great as it looks, the whole kind of like um, you know, the big sort of sash, the tartan sash and the bow tie and all that, and the the sort of bells and whistles, that's not how I like to wear a kilt. I like to wear a kilt just because I feel good in it, sociable, out for a few beers. I used to go and watch, not so much now, I used to go and watch the Scotland national football team, which was painful on occasion, but always Tartan Army we're called, always in a kilt for that. So I feel good in that, and that would be my sort of like costume of choice. Yeah. The rest of the time I'm kind of like trying to make decisions based on work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What about you?
SPEAKER_03Um I i I've got more to grips with my own appearance and the idea of appearance in the past sort of 15 years or so. Um and I really enjoy my appearance, I really enjoy doing stuff, I really enjoy clothes and hair and makeup and all of that. I really enjoy it. Well you always no, no, but I know that it's kind of drag, it's a costume. Yeah. You know, I don't see it as really to do with my personality. I see it as um really just like fun and interesting and uh kind of an expression of how I'm feeling sometimes on that day, sometimes in that part of my life, sometimes uh, you know, for that occasion. Yeah. Um but I'm thinking feeling like about in the past 15 years or so, fifth maybe longer than that, um I felt very comfortable with it because I haven't felt I felt like if P if I'm judged on my appearance, then that's not my problem at all. I felt like if um somebody was uh uh rude or or unpleasant about my appearance.
SPEAKER_01Sorry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it means nothing to me. It's fine, I have an opinion, you know. Everybody's got an opinion, you know, about everything. And it's fine, but it's nothing to do with me. I'm not interested in anybody else's review of my appearance. Um I can here comes Walter, the great big dog.
SPEAKER_01Guest of honour.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so it might it I don't know what he's going to do, but but he's here and uh he's wandering about. So if you hear Crash Bang Wallop, that's because Walter's got involved.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um we were talking about Chapel Rowan on one of the other episodes. Yeah. And that's they strike me as someone who's literally like take me as I Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I love that. Yeah, I love that. I know you do. And um I was I've lost I lost like like nine stones in the past couple of years, so I was much, much bigger than I am now. I've put a little bit back on, I've put a stone and a half back on. Um but uh yeah, I went from about 20 stones to about eleven. Um yeah, it was with the uh it was during a really difficult time in my life, but also um the weight loss jobs absolutely worked for me.
SPEAKER_01They're remarkable, aren't they?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, really worked for me. I have no sort of Betty Whippits here, I have no sort of shame or even I I have no sort of interest in people's um positive or negative thoughts about weight loss drugs, they work for me, you know. So nothing else matters really, does it? Oh no, so um yeah, and I I during that time when I lost weight and um I loved my clothes when I was at my absolute biggest, when I was like size 28, I loved my clothes then, I loved my style then. I had like lots of contrasting and and like mismatched patterns. I loved that style, a real kind of bohemian sort of anti-style. I remember you having that looking at it. I really, really, really like that. Um and my style's changed a bit as my figures changed, as the size of me's changed, but and what ways it changed? Um now I'm like more aware of bits of uh of kind of my silhouette. Not more aware, just my silhouette is different, the shape of me is different, and so I have I have more access to sort of different shapes of clothes.
SPEAKER_01Would you say your look sorry to interrupt again, would you say your look now is more mainstream than it was?
SPEAKER_03Probably. Probably, but that's possible that's because I you know different choices. I've got different choices now. And I also felt like um Walter's here, he's just he's just come to say hello. Um I feel like Me being big, me being really big and me not hiding, I felt like quite a c quite a rebellious thing to be in a way that I loved. You know, I loved going, I'm really big, these are the clothes I'm wearing. I feel love I feel gorgeous in my clothes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And if if if me being big and not apologetic is a problem to anybody, it's absolutely their problem.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I was saying on another episode though, I like the old adage, don't say anything what's the I'm trying to remember. If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Some people can't stick by that rule, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. We've just we just stopped for a moment because Walter was wanting to get involved and we thought, why not? So he's here, Betty's down there.
SPEAKER_01Is it anything nicer than when a dog or a cat, any animal I guess snuggles into it?
SPEAKER_03I know, he's a lovely boy, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01So you were talking about your appearance in particular around drama school.
SPEAKER_03At drama school, I felt very insecure, very and sometimes just like desperately unhappy about my appearance. Um at that time, if you were at all bigger, you know, not massive bigger, just a little, if you're a size 14, you were huge. You were, you know, which is about the size I'm about a size 16, 16, 18, 14, depending on what shops now. Um and that this size in at drama school, I was massive. I was it was seen as I was seen as enormous. I never ever thought that though. It's how I felt. Right, okay.
SPEAKER_01It's how I felt and how um yeah and But did you think that other people thought that? Yes. Right, okay, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And uh going at auditions, people weren't shy, were they? The casting directors and whoever, they weren't shy what they what they said.
SPEAKER_01Well that's mainly because some of them were assholes.
SPEAKER_03Yes. But uh not all of them. Um so yeah, I had a real uh difficult time with my appearance due to being uh big when I was younger, and it was always sort of uh, you know, disapproved of. From when I was a little girl, it was very much disapproved of and uh uh yeah uh not sort of I didn't feel I didn't feel accepted. I didn't feel like m I was my appearance was accepted, I felt it was a di a disappointment really for being for being big. And yeah, so it took me quite a long time to kind of go, actually no, it's up to me.
SPEAKER_01You know, if you don't like what I look like, you'll fucking look at that it's changed like people's perception of larger people.
SPEAKER_03I think so, I hope so, but as much as and this is um a little bit of a contradiction, but as much as I've had a brilliant experience with the fat jabs, um, absolutely work for me. And I I went on them because my health I have ME, chronic fatigue syndrome, and the doctor suggested I'd I'll lose some weight for that, that it might help with that. And my doctor was brilliant, you know. She she was she was like, I know that you've tried everything, I know that you understand about food, I know that you understand about exercise and about psychology, all the rest of it. And do you want to try these these jobs? Because it might, you know, it might help. When was this? Um it was February 2024.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And I and I was like, yeah, all right, yeah, you know, and she wasn't judgmental, she wasn't critical, she knew she knew there was something else happening that you know I knew that I'd be healthier if I was slimmer, whether or not it affected my chronic fatigue syndrome. I knew that, you know, because as much as I was at at home in my body and in my weight, you know that if there's more of your fur more of your there, there's your heart, your all your internal organs have to work harder to make things function. And my body was coping, my body was managing, but it wasn't necessarily thriving. Thriving, yeah. So that's why I went on the weight loss um drugs. Um but as much as lots of people are having a brilliant, brilliant experience on them and it's changing the changing the health, changing the ticket. It it I do I am a little bit worried that everybody suddenly being very, very slim might make it more difficult to be a larger person.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay.
SPEAKER_03So if you're somebody who is not interested in going on the jabs, who has no just doesn't feel like they want to, has you know no health issues, or the any reason, or maybe you've tried them and they're not working for you because they don't work for everybody. No, that people who are remaining large in this world where so many of us are shrinking, yeah, that it's gonna be harder to be accepted and acceptable, to feel accepted and to feel acceptable in that in this new sort of era.
SPEAKER_01So going back to a point I brought up earlier um appearance, how do you feel, and this is a hard question to answer because it covers it's multifaceted. How do you feel social media has affected our view of other people's appearance, our own appearances?
SPEAKER_03I feel that people can kind of curate their own lives, so the life they're living isn't necessarily the one that they're projecting online, yeah. You know, the whole like perfect Facebook family or the perfect Instagram holiday or whatever. This idea of perfection is something that's in some cases manufactured, um, which is one of the reasons why I like doing stupid stuff online. I did one recently which was uh my above and below selfie because I I used to do it for years I've done these above and below selfies where I do one up there and it's all cheekbones and jawlines and that, and then you do one from underneath and you look like jabba the hook.
SPEAKER_01Recky Gervaise does one in the bath, yeah.
SPEAKER_03He's done up another one, and it's they're brilliant, and it's I did have one on video recently, and it was just to show that you know, depending on the view that you choose to give to the world, how the world can see you, and you you can kind of decide what that is. So if I just took a photo from above like that, I'd know that all of this features all the best. If I took it from down here, I know that the best features would not be on show, yeah, you know, and I'd look very, very different. And it's that idea that the above photo is the only one.
SPEAKER_01I think vanity dictates people just think that whenever it's so uh maybe I include myself in this, if there's a social media photo or video, or whether they're on their own or doing something or they're making a video or they're shopping. I think quite often people think I have to look my best. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Just that take a simple photo and video.
SPEAKER_03I get that as well, that you want to look your best, and and lots of us want to look our best, you know. But what I struggle with is the idea that you look your best all the time, because nobody does that.
SPEAKER_01That's what I'm trying to say. I think that's impossible, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's it's an impossible sort of standard to try and aim for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know.
SPEAKER_01Um throwing this cardball in, do you think it's easier to attain that if you've got money?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think so. I do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And do you think Well, I think without question, if you have more money, you can have there's lots of different ways that you can enhance what you look like. And you can enhance all parts of your life. Well, not all parts of your life, because there's lots of things which money doesn't affect at all, but those things, things you can buy. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And so do you think in that uh I was mainly thinking of younger girls here, teenagers and stuff. Do you think when they look at I don't know, Kim Kardashian and people like that online? Maybe that's not the best example now. Um Sydney Sweeney, for example, they feel like is there a pressure there to try and look like that?
SPEAKER_03I I would imagine so, but then sorry, I'm just getting myself comfortable because there's a massive dog here now.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03And there's another one on the horizon, Betty Whipping.
SPEAKER_01Or like the boys with the sorry, to because we brought them up a few times with Andrew Tate. I need the Ferrari, I need the Lamborghini, I need the smart suit, I need to look like that.
SPEAKER_03I think there's always been that. I think there's always been you know, you try to look a certain way, try to present a certain or there's kind of carry yourself a certain way. Yeah, but I think perhaps it's because there's these other methods of communicating that online and all of that and social media that it's it's maybe got more pronounced, more intense. It's not that that's not always been there. Everybody always wanted to look like film stars or whatever.
SPEAKER_01It's magnified notes, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, magnified, and there's also there's more um there's more kind of access to those same platforms that the big stars are using. So say like Sydney Sweeney, I don't know if she has Instagram or whatever, but she she can put pictures of herself or her comp her companies can put pictures of themselves her team, yeah, can put pictures of her on Instagram. I didn't single her out because I'm pegging. No, but she's she's very much she's very around. She's very prominent, yeah. Um and I can put pictures of myself on Instagram. Somebody else, you know, a 14 year old 16-year-old can put pictures. There's that platform that where essentially we're equal, even if we're not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, because hers is professional, you know, film star, Teams, you know, there's a whole team involved in her appearance and her stalists. Yeah, and and the way that she's projected to the world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And there it for the rest of us, for most of us, there isn't. And also going back to talking about acting, her appearance is tied to her work.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03You know, most of us it isn't.
SPEAKER_01I've got a couple of mates that are movie stars, um, and I know that they they get stuff kind of thrown at them for free to wear at premiers and sunglasses and suits and stuff like that. So it all kind of boosts that image and that style. Um, but it it in terms of like materialistically, they have access to everything. Yeah, yeah. You know, so they're likely always to look their best, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03In terms of appearance, one of the biggest changes uh as well as me losing weight was that I had my boobs done.
SPEAKER_01I remember this because we had a little episode after, didn't we?
SPEAKER_03We did, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We didn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we my boobs didn't. Yeah, your friendship group were um involved in terms of we got a shock when you Yeah yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I had my boobs.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say when it went tits up, but I didn't mean it did go tits when I was. I didn't mean to stop myself, but I thought I'd I'd give you that there. Yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_03Thanks very much. Yeah, it did go tits up, but just with one tick. Um yeah, I I I had a really brilliant surgeon for to have them lifted and made smaller. It's something I'd I wanted, yeah, it's something I'd always wanted doing, but after I lost the weight, my boobs stayed massive, and I thought I'd get smaller boobs when I lost like nine stones. I did not, I still had massive boobs, and I wanted them. I just I knew that it was the only thing about my body that I just could there was nothing that I could do short of surgery to get them changed to for them to change, you know, everything else I could sort out with um exercise and and you know nutrition and all looking and I'd been really, really lucky that I'd lost all that weight, and I've been really lucky with not having a lot of kind of loose skin. I have like the normal amount of skin that a 52-year-old woman would have, yeah, you know. Um so I was so lucky with that, but my boobs were just not at all what I wanted, and yeah, couldn't do anything. So I thought I'm going to have the surgery. I did a lot of investigation about um of choosing like the right surgeon and the right place, and that mine were very, very expensive because I just thought it's it's an important thing for me, and it's one of the things not to scrimp on. So yeah, I I've found the right surgeon, I had lots of talks with him nice to fit. Me operation went absolutely fine, really, really well. It was a big operation.
SPEAKER_00Wasn't after it, weren't you?
SPEAKER_03It was a big operation because with this one, I know with like when they're made bigger, there's kind of inserts there or things are put in and so that would only be a s be a smaller incision for an implant, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So what did you minor right cut right round and under here and up up to my nipples and you know, because they take the nipples off while they're doing it. I'm assuming the bob them on your ears like earrings. Yeah. But I mean they're still attached, I think.
SPEAKER_01The surgeon holds them for Jesus, right? Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't completely know what happened because I chose I've chose not to because I thought if I've if I knew what happens, I won't have it done because I think this is absolutely fucking ridiculous to have.
SPEAKER_01You knew it was a big up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it was ridiculous to put your body under so much stress and uh have um an aesthetic and have all those different things that you go through in operation for vanity. Which is what it was, you know. I didn't have back pain, I didn't have any other pain, I just I knew that this is what I wanted.
SPEAKER_01And um yeah, but surely if they were did you feel they they impeded you in the back of the five years?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I felt really self-conscious because they were still Yeah, exercising, they were massive, and they've always been massive. They've always been massive, but I was much bigger.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, me being my my back went down like 11 inches from my biggest to my smallest, you know. Um and yeah, I was um a 40 48 G. Massive knockers.
SPEAKER_01And I went down to knockers, you can still call them knockers like in the 70s and 80s, go on.
SPEAKER_03And I went down to a 36 G.
SPEAKER_02Whoa.
SPEAKER_03So they were still massive but on a much, much smaller frame. Um, so yeah, I had the operation, it was big operation, everything went went well, and then and I was recovering at home, and the following week one of my boobs just started getting bigger and started really, really hurting. Yeah, really hurting, and me like thinking, oh stop showing off. Because I enjoy drama when there's actual drama, I think stop it, you're being dramatic. Yeah, and I was in so much pain, so much pain, it was getting worse and worse and worse. It was a Friday night, and it so much, and it was just like just getting bigger, this one boob, and I thought, well, I've had a lot of surgery, this is what happens, it's just settling, you know, you know, you know, like settling, you know, like a house.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. On its foundations, yeah, it's just settled.
SPEAKER_03It's just it's just settling, but I was in so much pain, and I and I got up and and I rung the hospital and I was like, This is this and um and my boyfriend was up and he was really worried, and um the hosp the hospital was like, Yeah, you need to come in right away, you need to come in right now.
SPEAKER_01Should you have gone in before? Yeah, yeah, you should have any.
SPEAKER_03So uh yeah, so he drove me to the hospital and we were yeah, we were at this private hospital, and they'd rung the surgeon. The surgeon wasn't in he wasn't on duty, they'd rung him to get him out of bed to come and see me. And he'd just come back from Gaza.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03He'd been doing that doctor's what is it? He'd been he'd been doing proper, proper stuff in in Gaza. Yeah. And I thought this is why I almost why I felt such a massive twat as well, because it was like well the aftercare's part of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it was and the um anesthetist came in and he was like in his trackie bottoms and his backpack because it was like two in the morning or something, and he was like, I'm sorry, I'm not in my I'm not in my medical clothes, it's just you know, this is emergency and I need to see you beforehand, but da da. And it was at that point that I thought, ooh, this probably is important then. Yeah. And um, yeah, so I got got there about one, and by about two, I was in the operating theatre having it, and there'd there'd been problems and internal sort of bleeding and swelling and all sorts had happened, and so they had to put trains in, and yeah, it was one of those things that it could have been really, really serious. So I was in I was in the hospital for another three nights, so it the recovery was took a lot lot longer than expected. But now that's all done. I'm really, really happy that I've got smaller boobs, yeah. Small, smaller, perkier boobs, and it just I feel like I feel younger, not because I'm trying to look younger, but I just feel like like going to this paddle class tonight. I don't think I would have felt confident enough jumping about and stuff, and like my other stuff I'm doing, go you know, other new physical stuff I'm I'm doing with horse riding and with in Pilates and all that. I don't think I would have felt as engaged with kind of sporty stuff were I not more confident in my body, and that's not because of I was bigger and I was then I was smaller, it's because when are you gonna jump out of a plane?
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_03Not for me. Not for I can't because I've my eyes are uh my eyes are um finished. You've got fish. Yeah, I've got not I don't have fair can I wash any real ones, but um but thanks for sh thanks for thinking they were. Um I've got those I've got rugby ball-shaped eyes and you're not allowed to. You're not no, it does does it's too much pressure jumping out of a plane. Is it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Who knew?
SPEAKER_03Well, it is for my eyes anyway, and that's why I'm not doing it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I might do it.
SPEAKER_03Might you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I might do it. I feel like it's a box ticky thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01My mate Hannah Jane Fox, the very talented Hannah Jane Fox, uh, who I did We Will Rock You with, she did it three, four years ago with uh a girl called Sarah Faruqi who was uh in her year at drama school. And Sarah's like this action stunt woman, like force of nature, she jumps out planes on a regular basis. So Hannah, who had said, Oh, I'm never gonna do that, she did a tandem jump with her. Yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna maybe I'll do it. In terms of Tom did one. Did he?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he did one. He was he was about dunno, he was seven seventeen. He was he he did it to be for a a YouTube video.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Him and his mate jumped out of a plane.
SPEAKER_01Did he enjoy it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he did. He did not enjoy when he did like a massive, massive bungee jump. Oh no, I don't think I'll be right back. He did not enjoy it. Didn't like it. In fact, he wrung me from the top of the thing saying, I don't have to do this, do I? And I was like, You don't have to do it at all, babes. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. Did he not do it? He did, yeah, he did, he did. Yeah, but it was very much this is a mistake.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So has your I guess the big question is we're talking about appearance and how age affects it. Do you think age we can't speak for everyone, but do you think age makes you give less of a shit?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it just in general. Yeah, I I feel like that. I feel you know, I feel like I'm be can be exactly who I want to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but do you feel like there's more balance as you get older? What do you mean? Like you balance maybe the wrong word. You like there's a peace with it. Like you come to terms with how we look, and we just are more comfortable in our own.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think so. I hope so. I think yeah, I I hope so. I mean my situation that my whole like identity and everything changed. My identity wasn't really to do with my appearance, it was to do with, you know, my marital situation, my divorce, my dad dying, my son leaving home. That was a lot. All of those things. And then me losing, you know, almost half my body weight, um and looking very different, and the way that people sometimes people have been have have re reacted to me looking different, has been like um that feels like a whole the whole thing has been sort of an identity change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And the appearance part of it is only a really small part.
SPEAKER_01That's a lot of things to happen within a relatively small space of time, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I think I am just kind of getting my head around that and getting my head around what my style is, you know.
SPEAKER_01I think you're very stylish.
SPEAKER_03Oh, thank you. That's very kind. I think you're very stylish, Dave. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01Mutual appreciation society.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know. It's nice to be nice, isn't it? It's nice to be nice.
SPEAKER_01As my wee pal Stevie McQuillan always says, it's nice to be nice.
SPEAKER_03How has your um relationship with your parents changed as you've got older?
SPEAKER_01I think I give a little bit less of a shit, but without repeating myself, I still have to factor in. Like, do you remember me on one of the episodes saying the whole like I'm carrying a bit of timber now as I get older? But that because my casting's very much thug, drug dealer, gangster, there was a pressure, I think, up until relatively recent recently to try and maintain a physique that would always make me look threatening. Yeah, I've been comfortable with that, but I think I mentioned it before, it'd be nice to not have to think about that so much and maybe play some different kinds of characters where yeah, where appearance isn't so important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I have to like carry the a threat physically. That's what I've been doing for certainly in the main the last maybe not 30 odd years of my career, but the last 15 with all those drug dealers, gangsters, typecasting. Um I think I'm slightly less interested in that now. The interesting thing is the film I've written, A Darker Game, shoot September in Glasgow, 2026. I'm gonna have to take about two stone off. Right. Because he's um maybe more, because he's uh just out of prison and he's uh he's had a heroin addiction and there's some quite graphic scenes where he takes it again, and I think I would only feel like I was in his shoes if I shift a bit. Yeah. So I've put weight on for stuff, but losing it feels harder.
SPEAKER_03I tell you what was an important kind of change for me that happened, you know, happened a long time ago was working out that there's a huge difference between this is your appearance, this is the what you look like, and uh whether or not you're attractive. Because those are two totally different things and they can be mixed up. You know, an attractive appearance to me those are completely different things. Yeah. Being attractive is about you having the intention of attracting somebody or something.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Having your appearance a certain way is just that looking a certain way. And kind of removing the whole idea of being attractive made me feel very free to look like exactly what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01That's interesting, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I wasn't trying to attract anyone or anything, I was just being joined to emotionally joined to what I look like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, I think it gets easier, and it as much as you know the there are tricky things with getting older, I think appearance for in my experience has got easier to deal with. Navigate, yeah. Navigate as we got older. Now, I think we should move on to our last little section.
SPEAKER_01What is the last little section?
SPEAKER_03It's what's in the rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_01The rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_03The rabbit hole! Cameron, what's up your rabbit hole?
SPEAKER_01Um there's a minor irritation up my rabbit hole, but I'll tell you about that another time. Listen, this rabbit hole this week is just it's one I go down all the time.
SPEAKER_03And this is internet stuff, you know, sometimes short form content, scrolling.
SPEAKER_01Which I am utterly obsessed with. I am hoping within the next few months to start doing a sort and a TikTok. Yeah. So the what do they call it? A channel. Yeah. Uh I want to do some TikTok on each other. Well, the tickery talks. Uh yeah. I'm utterly obsessed with it. So I find myself because of my Alangarhythm, um, my Alan Garhythm dictates that I get um I follow a guy, uh I don't even know his name, but the title's 45 of the day. He's got like a really southern accent, and he does five singles a day, and it's all 80s-based. So my Alangarhythm tells me it just feeds me other stuff in that realm. So as soon as I get a Jiran Jiran or a Tears for Fears or a Thompson Twins or an Aha, that fucking rabbit hole is blocked up with my head going, give me as much of that as possible. But I love I love going to the gigs, I love um, I love seeing all those bands because that's when I was aware, you know. I was a child of the 80s, born in 72, but all my musical tastes formed in the 80s, and I've never left it. So the rabbit hole for me is 80s music constantly.
SPEAKER_03Brilliant. Oh, I love a bit of 80s music.
SPEAKER_01What's in your hole this week?
SPEAKER_03Well, I'll tell you what's up my rabbit hole. It's organising things in boxes. Oh no, specifically within the fridge. I love and I don't do this, and I want to do this, but it's just it should it's not hard.
SPEAKER_01Can I just say your buffet lunch today was well, wasn't it? It was immense. Thanks very much. Technician behind the camera doing a sterling job. Um, it was incredible. Did you compartmentalise each pork pie ham slice cheese?
SPEAKER_03No, no, no, no. Sorry, I've let you speak. I I I feel like you're tacking the piss a little bit, can't Jack. I feel like you're being extremely disrespectful about my my obsession with about my obsession with pussy with watching videos and people organising things in my box in boxes. What is it about it? I just love how it looks so neat and so organised and like you could go, right? I am going to make whatever it is you're gonna make. I need one of d like you're in a shop.
SPEAKER_01Are you a little bit obsessive compulsive? No, you're not?
SPEAKER_03No, I'm not.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03I'm not. I know it sounds like I am, but I'm not. Um but I just love I think I'd love love to have that level of organisation where So it's watching other people do it, it's not doing it yourself. I would like to do it myself, but I never quite get around to it. I did I got a I got a like a box with several categories in. Do I mean that categories?
SPEAKER_01Compartments.
SPEAKER_03Compartments in uh for the fridge, and I thought, right, each one I'm gonna put cherry tomatoes and strawberries and you know, something else healthy that and I'll be able to get them out and you know that and I'm gonna be the healthiest person in the world. I did that, it sat in the fridge for about a fortnight now. Right. I think the strawberries have fur so yeah, mine is watching people organise their fridge in boxes. Well, everybody, what a way to what a way to finish fridge boxes. Oh, we're keeping our finger on the pulse, aren't we? I am Sarah Simons.
SPEAKER_01I am Cameron Jack.
SPEAKER_03And what is our podcast called?
SPEAKER_01Midlife Youth Club. Follow us on the sociables.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thanks.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. That's the most I've made you laugh since we started. Isn't it a sadness? Let's make a book about it. Is there a sadness to reformers Pilates?