Heather Antos x Jake Thomas

This week, CreatorxCreator features two of our very own editors, Heather Antos and Jake Thomas! Listen to them talk about IDW and Marvel, their craziest work phone call, and the pitfalls of casting a project.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey Heather Antos, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:01

I'm alright. How how the heck are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Doing pretty well. Yeah. You know what I was just thinking? What were you thinking? I was just thinking, I'd love for us to just talk about being editors. Yeah. Like our history. Yeah. What it means.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Yeah. Wouldn't that be fun? I think that would be fun. Why don't you start by telling us who you are and and a little bit of your history?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Okay. My name is Jake Thomas. Uh I have been an editor in comics for 16 years now. I spent 11 years at Marvel. After that, I went to humanoids for around uh five years. Uh and I have recently come over here to IDW.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yeah. How about you, Heather?

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Uh, my name is Heather Antos. Uh, I've been working professionally in comics for about 12 years. Uh, four of those at Marvel where I met you.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

We met we met each other there. Uh after that, um, I had a small stint in video games and esports. Um, then I worked at Valiant Comics for a couple years, and then I've been at IDW. This year will be my fifth year anniversary with IDW. Um, yeah, and in in between all of that, I've done some editing for for second, for humanoids, um, and a lot of work for image. So yeah. I don't know. As I like to say, I like comics sometimes. I make them. So I, you know, I I'd love to know what, you know, if if you had to say like this is the comic that you would most know me, my work for. Because this, I think that's the thing, is like people don't know editors exist half the time, right? Like, unless you're like a super fan or super in the industry or want to be a creator. And so they might need an editor but have no clue what you've touched. So um, you know, I'd be curious, in your opinion, what what are the comics that people would most know your work for that they might listening to this be like, oh, I've read that.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, that's a really interesting question because uh, you know, at Marvel, I worked on everything, I worked on every flagship title except Spider-Man, and I was in the Spider-Man office for a while. Um, but a lot of that stuff I did as an assistant and as an associate, you know. So as far as books that I ran, uh I ran Punisher for a while. Um, so um, you know, I did the um Nathan Edmonton and uh um Mitch Garrett's run. I did the Becky Clonin run.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Sorry, Mitch Garrett's worked for someone, worked with someone that wasn't Tom King.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Hard to believe. That's wild. Low those many years ago. Mitch could work with other people.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Um, yeah, but now he's creatively married, and it's a beautiful marriage.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

It's great, it's a beautiful, beautiful marriage.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Um, but yeah, so uh, you know, I had a um a good long run on Punisher. Um but I also did um like Powerman and Iron Fist uh was a favorite of mine. I did Iron Fist for a while um on a few ones, uh Kari Andrews run, um, and um the uh um Ed Brisson run. Um so I I did the street level comics were kind of my comics. I did Black Widow, uh I did Luke Cage, I did um weirdly, that for a time I was doing the street level books and the cosmic books. So I was also doing like Star Lord and Guardians and stuff like that. That was I was either down here or up here. They went they kept me out of here completely. Um but yeah, so that was kind of uh uh my stuff at uh Marvel. But again, I worked on tons and tons and tons of stuff. Um and then over at Humanoids, you know, I helped put out the big um heavy uh Metal Herlant relaunch. That was pretty cool. That was cool. I love that book. That man, I'm very proud of it. I have a story in the first issue. Um but I also worked on um like Black Cat Social Club there and some of the Corin Shadmi uh bio comics, and uh Ibrahim had a great run of stuff with Ibrahim Mustafa does does beautiful books with them that I worked on a couple of those. Um so yeah, uh that's the those are kind of some some of the highlights. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Similarly, being at Marvel, you touch like so many things, and even though I too was in the Spider-Man group, I never worked on the amazing Spider-Man. I was also in the X-Men group um for a time. And uh I think I worked on a total of two X-Men comics in my time at Marvel. Um, but yeah, while I was there, I was most known for, you know, uh help running the Star Trek uh Star Trek. That's what I did here. Uh Star Wars, the other, the other star franchise. Um and then uh Deadpool, you know, um, and those books have everything to do with one another, they're very, very similar. Um, but yeah, I mean, where where my hands got the most dirty uh at Marvel was I am credited as one of the co-creators of Gwenpool, um, which is crazy and wild and weird. And that was such a fun, fun book to run um over there. And then when I went to Valiant, I oversaw um Exo Man of War, Shadow Man, Um Quantum and Woody, Savage, um, a bunch of those. I love those characters that that world is so cool. And yeah, over here I do Star Trek and Horror.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

We had we had some overlap because I did Deadpool for a while as well. So we both worked on Deadpool. That was our our one cohesive joined unit at Marvel. And then I did not say what I do here, which is Turtles. I I do the Turtles line, but I also oversee Sonic and Godzilla and Rocketeer. Uh, we're both working on the crime books. Yes. So uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

It's easy, right? Easy work.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I barely work. Most days I'm watching cat videos.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

It's really all we do is we crack whips at creators, you know, make them cry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Uh let's talk a little bit about our position. I mean, we talk about overseeing books because we are senior group editors. Uh which, you know, let's let people peek behind the curtain. The way things are sort of organized here is we have you and I at the editorial top. Right. Where we are the senior group editors, and then underneath us we have our editors. Our groups, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Um so yeah, so I oversee a small group of editors that do the dark comics, so all the horror line, um, all the spooky stuff beneath the trees where nobody sees, returned to Sleepy Hollow, Event Horizon, Exorcism at 1600 Pen, etc., etc. Um, my team also works on Monster High. Um uh Star Trek as well. I don't edit every single Star Trek comic. Um and a bunch of new stuff, the crime stuff, you know, a bunch of new stuff we can't talk about just yet. Um and then yeah, you just talked about the the uh licenses and stuff that fall under you. So yeah, editorial structure is an interesting thing because if you actually read the credits page of your comics, um, you will see, you know, senior group editor, group editor, editor, associate editor, assistant editor, editorial assistant. Yeah. What does that all mean? Um, and you know, I often talk about the path of an editor, kind of that of an apprenticeship. Like um, you kind of work your way up the trade of editing because there's so much of this job, this position that is soft skilled, that is experience learning. You're you're not going to develop some of the relationship management skills, licensure management skills, um, just straight out of college and be able to pick it up and and and do it at the extreme level.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Yeah, it's a hard job to tell people how to do it. You do have to kind of show them uh because as you say, it is a lot of the soft skills because you can't just sit down and say to someone, all right, you've got artists, and we love all of our artists, but they're also wack-doo. And I think every artist we work with will sign off on that. They're wack-adoo, and that's why they're great artists. Yes, they have an interesting perspective, they look at the world differently, and they are not only okay, generally, they enjoy just sitting down and staring at a piece of paper for hours on end, creating a world with a with a little wand. Like they're magicians, they're wizards, and so every wizard is very different, and it takes different things to get the magic out of them. Yeah, and so you know, as an editor, you say, Oh, well you're gonna work differently with uh Freddie Williams than you're going to with Michaela Bandini. So I can't just sit down and say to you, okay, well, like here's how you edit a book. Right. Every book gets edited differently, every artist gets edited differently, and writer gets edited differently.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

And license.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

And license gets worked differently. Yeah. So you just have to um be in it enough where you can start understanding and reading people, knowing what the situation is. I mean, we're we're kind of like spies. Let's say that. Because someone you you're you've got to read this other person, you've got to find ways to work and manipulate them. But you're not manipulating them to give up state secrets, you're manipulating them to make a great book.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I mean, sometimes you are.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Sometimes you are. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we don't talk about that so much. Raina, we're gonna need to cut that part of the okay. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Yeah, no, I I, you know, I often talk about it's it's chestnut checkers a lot of times. It's it's planning things out, a few moves, being able to anticipate a response to something, um, so that you can be proactive uh rather than reactive. Yeah um because I'm gonna tell you folks, not everything goes perfectly a hundred percent of the time in comics. I know, I know, it's a shock, but um yeah, it's it's chaos, it's chaos down here, folks.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

It is, but that's you know, I mean, that's what makes a lot of the best comics, you know. I think a lot of the comics that I'm most proud of that I think turned out the best were absolute chaos engines. Were, you know, but again, that like that's where the great ideas come from. That's where uh um and particularly in licensed comics, then you have the difficulty of you're having that chaos that then you also have to translate to the business people on the other end to be like, I know this is chaos, but that's how you get the good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Just imagine it, just use your imagination, business people.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

So, yeah, it is uh uh uh it's an interesting interesting bizarre.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

An interesting malaria.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Guys, I'm here with Sean Connery.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I've been drinking. I can't gonna tell you what's in here, but it's potent. No, it's yeah, it's a it's a a weird business of soft skills and relationships. Yeah. Um but you so you really have to find the joy in that. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Did you grow up, were you a big fan of comics growing up?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

No. I did not read comics until college. Oh, I was uh a big theater kid. I went to NYU for theater and English Lit. Huge nerd. Um and then this is how much of a nerd, this is how I got into comics was like it's uber nerd material. I was an English Lit major and I was hanging out with the film kids who were my favorite kids. Um and I was complaining about modern literature. I was saying how much I just hated contemporary literature because I thought it was so navel gazy and it was so form-focused and not worried about creating dynamic characters and uh and plots, you know. I feel like plot was a dirty word for so long in contemporary literature. And so a friend of mine said, like, oh, well, what do you like to read? I was like, Oh, well, I love the American romantics, and I love like Poe and Melville and Hawthorne and those guys because I love grand emotion and and sweeping action and you know, all of this stuff. And and the guy I was talking to said, Have you ever read comic books? And I said, No, not really.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

And he's nerd stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I like I just didn't know anyone who read them, you know. For sure. Uh, and he was like, I think you would really like comics. Yeah. Uh and that guy was Sean Ryan, who worked, he was interning at Marvel at the time in college, and he worked at Marvel. Um, then went and worked at DC, and now he writes uh comics on occasion. And um he just put a bunch of comics in my hand uh and immediately I fell in love with them. Like just right away, yeah. I went so deep. My money went to like rent food comics. That was kind of uh just immediately how it was. I had never experienced anything like them, and so uh yeah, I just went hard in the comics.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Yeah. Did you think like then this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

No. I I said like I was doing theater and I tried to do theater. I did theater unsuccessfully, I should say. Uh I I did do it, uh, but um, yeah, I I I struggled through theater for years after college. But then that guy, you know, he had worked at Marvel, but then he'd moved out to the West Coast and done a bunch of other stuff, but he was still in contact with some Marvel people uh and he uh knew that his old boss, Nick Lowe, was looking for a new assistant. So he wrote me and asked if I'd be interested in going out for a job at Marvel. He said, you know, he couldn't get me anything, but he could make sure Nick saw my resume. Yeah. Uh and I said, Yeah, sure, absolutely. And so he, you know, passed my resume on to Nick. Um and then yeah, I got the interview and got to do the That's That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

So you didn't go through the entran pool.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

No, I sure Tish, I uh I had a friend who did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yeah, there you go. But that's that's another way to break into comics, is is uh use your friends who went through the interval.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

But there's also there is a weird large contingent of folks from Marvel, especially at that time that were former theater people. Nick Lowe was a former theater person, you were a former theater person, Ellie Pyle was a former theater person, Steve Wacker was a former theater person. Like there were a bunch of people who would made that transition. So I also think that that was something where when I came in with that theater background.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Well, I often I talk about this a lot because a lot of people in comics have theater backgrounds, um, writers as well, artists too, but a lot in editorial specifically. And there is a lot of crossover skill set from theater to comics. Like obviously in theater, you might be tap dancing or performing a soliloquy instead of drawing a nine-panel grid. But um, you know, it's getting a group of people to uh collaborate creatively um on a small budget, on a deadline. Yep. Um, that show must go on regardless of any hurdles that come your way, and uh, you're not gonna have a lot of money to be able to do it. And um, and so that that crossover of like project management and just like again, creative collaboration. Like I think that's what makes comics in particular like such a cool standout, is it truly is such a mind meld of insane skill set. Um, you know, it is truly creating something out of nothing, yeah. Um, purely using your imagination.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

And that's again, yeah, theater is a people act like that's an odd fit, but it really, when you sit down and make sense, because you know, as actors and stuff, you do also, and writers, like you have to break down scripts and break down characters and think about dynamic stage pictures. You do have to think visually as a theater artist as well. So uh, you know, you have to do all of that, and again, it's that soft skills. Like we were talking about artists being wack-a-doo wizards, but like there's no people on earth more fragile and deranged than actors. I say, as a former actor, I had like I I know where of I speak.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

We're in LA, Jay.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

They'll hear you, they'll hear you. I I say that with love and affection. Many of my friends are still out there grinding away. Um, but so you have to know how to work with folks, you have to know how to work with people of artistic temperaments to get something done. And I I've heard you say this before too. When people talk about wanting to get into this industry, especially on our side of things, they want to know what they can do. And the best thing you can do is show that you can get something done. Yeah, you know, and that's why, like, can you do a a comic is the obvious thing. I was like, Can you put together an anthology? That kind of stuff. You did a lot of that. But uh, theater is the same. Like, if you can show, like, no, look, I can wrangle a bunch of people, I can work on a budget, I can get something done.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Can you produce something?

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, like saying yes, you can trust me if you if I have a reserve time at a theater that says a show is going to be there for four weeks, that show will happen. You know, um, and that's huge. Yep. You know, not a lot of people can do that necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Or want to do it. It's a lot of work to do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

A lot of work, but it's a lot of work, it's a lot of heartbreak. Because I mean, that's the other thing with theater too, especially at the level all of us who came into Marvel who had done theater did it, is you're also not gonna get a lot from it. You're not getting famous, you're not getting noticed, you're doing this for the love of doing it, you know. Um because yeah, no one's getting famous as a comic book editor. Sorry, Heather. I know you've been gunning for the lights and the glamour, but oh no.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

That's that's okay. Uh honestly, as I like to say, I prefer not to be perceived, so um you can turn the camera off now.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

You you did have a bag over your head with a little drawing of your face, and we're like, you have to take that off. It doesn't sound good on the mic.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

I know.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

That's true. The audio quality was quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Um yeah, it you know, it it is uh a weird industry on this side too. I mean, that was we both worked with the great Tom Brevor. Yeah, and that was his line on editors was the job of the editor is to take none of the credit and all of the blame.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

And yeah, like that's that's kind of it.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yep, no, that's that's for sure. If if a comic is great, it's everyone's fault, but your fault. It's everyone's win but yours, even if it was your idea, your casting, your whatever. Yeah. But if there's one typo, um, if there's one type, and I'm gonna just put this out there for the crowd. Our job is is not proofreading. I mean, that is part of our job. Um, that is part of our job, but I think there is that that uh uh misconception out there all the time that editors are just proofreaders.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Well, you know, that's a good question. What so what is an editor's job, Heather?

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Um, to to cry a lot, uh drink a lot, um, and cry some more. Um, no, so I my shorthand of an editor's job is to get people to do what it is they say they're going to do, when it is they say they're going to do it to the very best of their ability, on budget, on time, um, and want to work with me again. Um and I think a lot of people all forget that last part um sometimes, you know. I often view an editor, we're team captain. We're not the coach, we're team captain.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

We're on the field, we're in the trenches with the rest of the players and and on the on the team. Um, but we're, you know, calling the shots, we're there to to to save where we need to um and um take take the falls where we need to as well. Our, you know, um there's a lot of times, you know, we might have great ideas that we pitch to licensors or we pitch to creators. Sometimes it's creators pitching to us, but you know, it's putting together creative teams um and yeah, producing producing that comic and all the little bits and interactions in between, right? We're the center of that story. So we are working with marketing, we are working with sales, we are working with social, we are working with ops, we are working, you know, all of that stems from editorial. If like to all if we're if it if comics is a wheel, if every single comics is a wheel, like we are that center hub that all the other spokes, you know, go out to. That spokes are the creative team, the licensors, the publisher itself, and all the various departments in that, and and we are the center, and we do that for several projects at a time.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

But I do, you know, it's it's one of the mantras I try to repeat to myself is like, you know, these are not my stories. This is not my my comic. Uh and you know, my wife works in like HR and career development, and it's funny we'll talk to each other and realize that we're both kind of doing the same thing because like my job is to make sure these people are doing the best work they can. Sure. You know, they're turning in a great story, uh, and I have to look at it. And see, like, can this be better? Can it be clearer? Can it be, you know, are we hitting our maximum punch with this panel or page turn or whatever, you know? Um, but it's taking what's there and we're sculpting, just making it better. You know, like we're we're we're helping these people finesse and find themselves because uh it's hard being in it. Yeah. You know, I mean the the one of the big jobs that people talk about with editors is we're the first reader. You know, and so we have to stand in for that. And one of the lines I'll say when I'm talking with people on panels and stuff is that like in some ways my job is to be an idiot, and I'm very good at my job. You know, like I need to look at this book and say, okay, if I hadn't been sitting here talking with this creator about what this book is and means for five months, uh do I get what this is? Do i i uh is this emotional moment working? Am I feeling it? Is it earned? Is it surprising? Yes, is it earned, you know, all that kind of stuff. Um and it helps that I have a dumb little like fish brain memory and can very easily kind of look at things through through uh dumb new eyes. Yeah. Um but yeah, like that's that's part of it.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yeah, no, for sure, for sure, for sure. I so I wanna I wanna talk about some of the juicy stuff, some of the fun stuff. Because we can we can talk, you know, um, we can talk process all day long, and you know, we do often at panels and stuff. Um but I want to know, like, so especially as someone who didn't grow up with comics, right? You weren't like, you know, well no, not to derail you, but you didn't either. No, I didn't. I didn't well I grew up with a Sunday newspaper strip that was like my closest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

That was what I wanted to be when I was little.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 23:50

My when I was little, uh, I wanted to be a funnies artist. Like, you know, Charles Schultz, Bill Watterson, Burke Brees, like those guys were my heroes. I had Garfield bed sheets and oh my gosh. Uh yeah, I was like how do you feel about lasagna? Uh love it.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Mondays, not as big a fan. Um I I too try to mail all of my problems to Abu Dhabi. It doesn't quite work. Who doesn't? Who doesn't? Um yeah, so that was me too. Yeah, that's really funny.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

That was what I had. Yeah, no, I didn't grow up with comics either. I grew up in a very, very, very small rural Midwest town. Um, when we were bored, we biked to the next town over to go to their Walmart to see who could stay in it for 24 hours. Like that's super, super, super small town. Um, but so I would love to know, like, you know, did you have because at Marvel you're working with the biggest characters in the world, like some of the biggest creators in the world. Um, but for someone who didn't grow up with comics, like, did what was the first moment where you were like, oh my god, I'm working in comics with like, you know, it happened right away for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Because one of the first books I worked on, like when I started at Marvel, I went right into assisting on Jonathan Hickman Shield.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Oh, he I heard of him.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yep, and um, you know, this was still fairly early in Jonathan Hickman being Jonathan Hickman. Uh but I had read his first big book, The Nightly News, and I had loved it so much that I had written it as a play. Oh, wow. I I like went through and did the whole script, turning it into a play. Does he know? Did you tell him? I well, I sent it to him and his agent, and I said, like, I love the nightly news, I'd love to do it as a play here in New York, and here's how I do it. Like, I've done the script, and you can see yada yada yada. And uh, because he I think he still does, which is insane, but like he has his email on the back of his comics and stuff, you know. And so um he wrote me back, him and his agent, and he was like, I've called my agent, and he was like, Look, man, this sounds really cool. Love that you did this, love that you're a fan, but like we've optioned this for a movie, and neither me nor my agent have ever done that before, and we don't know anything about how this works, and we just can't green light anything. Like, sorry, this is cool, but like we can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

So when you got to Marvel, he he was like, You're stalking me?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Is that the well like because I I got to Marvel like a it was like a year or so later, yeah, and so I like worked with him for like a couple months, sending him emails, that kind of stuff, and then at a certain point I wrote and I was like, Hey man, I don't know if you remember this, but there was a kid who wrote you asking to do your your thing as a play in New York, like that's me. And he was like, Oh, wow, that's cool, you're here now. And I was like, Yeah, I'm I'm so excited to be working with you. And I was like, Oh, hey, like, what's the deal with that movie? And he was like, buddy, it's right where it was when you talked to me a year and a half ago. Um, just right away I had I was working with a guy who I thought was the best.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Wild.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

How about you? Did you have your your Starstruck moment?

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Oh gosh, yeah. So I similarly, I didn't really grow up like, you know, with um with with uh near weekly comics. I came to them much later in in college, and you know, I got into superhero comics after, you know, after college and and all of that stuff. But like I I knew who the big players were. Like I knew, you know, everyone's heard of the the you know, Jason Aaron and John Cassidy and Mark Wade and you know, all of that stuff. And but you know, my biggest fandom growing up was Star Wars. Like I really, you know, I w was obsessed with Star Wars. I still am. My guest room and my house is all Star Wars themed. Um and I, you know, I interviewed and I I knew that Marvel had had picked up the Star Wars license, had just announced that they were picking up the Star Wars license, but I didn't, I just thought I was interviewing for an assistant editor job. I didn't know it was for Star Wars. Like I was specifically, and Jordan White, who hired me, um was taking over the line. Um, but I didn't know he was hiring me specifically for like my Star Wars-ness. He, you know, he knew of my fandom and and all of that stuff. And um, so like my first day, it was like, hey, you're on Star Wars also, by the way. And I was like, oh, okay, cool, that's cool. That's fun, this is fine. Um, and and it's like also, and this is this is I I will never forgive him for this. I give him so much shit for this to this day. He was on vacation my first week at Marvel.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Classic.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

So I'm on, I'm working for the biggest publisher, comics publisher in the world on the biggest license, you know, like, you know, with Jason Aaron, Mark Wade, John Cassidy, Terry Dodson, like Hugh, Kieran Gillen, like Salvador LaRocca, like the the the all-stars of all-stars of of modern comics. And um, we need you to call Mark Wade and give him Lucasfilm's notes. Like, I for anyone who's met Mark Wade, he's very sweet, he's very kind, he's very nice.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

He is. But did you know, like, he is that way now? Right. He didn't know that. He had the reputation, yeah, like in the 90s and stuff of short tempered.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Did you know that reputation at all?

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Okay, I did know that. And I like I was so nervous. Like, I was so, and like, too, like every Star Wars comic, I had to write an opening crawl because every Star Wars comic opened with the recap page of the opening crawl. Which, if you're a Star Wars person, you know, like that is what sets the tone. You can hear the soundtrack, you know. And if you do it wrong, you're screwing it up for everyone. And so it took me like a week to write, like, you know, 10 sentences for this opening crawl. And yeah, it was, I was so nervous. It was that was that was a very like, oh, I'm here, I'm I'm doing it. This is the thing that is happening now.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Mark, Mark was one of those big moments for me too, because when I started reading comics, you know, my dad's a huge film nut, and we like he instilled this love of film and narrative and story into me. And so when I started reading comics, I was like, oh, I'll I'm gonna try and get my dad into comics. And so I gave my dad like a handful of comics, and one of them was Kingdom Come. Like it's great comics. And Wade hates whenever people talk about how great Kingdom Come is. But uh sorry, Wade, you wrote a Stone Cold classic that everyone loves. You wrote one of the best comics of all time.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yeah, I worked with him on uh Black Widow, amongst a few other things.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Oh, that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

And um uh with Somny, right? Yeah, and the way that we did that book. Well, this is another thing that when people talk about being an editor, yeah, and I talk about like it's different with each project.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

100%. And you can work with the same creative team on a different project, and it's gonna be an entirely different experience.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

And so, like, what we would do on Black Widow is I would get on the phone with Wade and Somni, and we would just talk through the next issue and say, like, okay, like here's what we want the next issue to be. And then then we know that we're starting here, we need to end here, here's what you know, because um Wade loves artists and he loves working with them however they want, and Somni like really wanted to like get into the story this time. And so Wade was like, okay, well, like let's just talk story together. Um and so we would do that, and uh uh while I was working on that book, my mother-in-law died, and I was uh with my wife and my sister-in-law, and we were like shopping at a grocery store for uh the food for the like after memorial service thing. And I had the like Wade Somny phone call, and I was like, guys, is it okay if I like take a phone call while we're doing this? And they were like, Yeah, that's fine. And so we're walking around this grocery store, and I'm on the phone with them, and I'm like, okay, so they're on the moon, and I I told my sister-in-law, I was like, I have to do a work call. And she was like, Okay, so again, they're uh they're they're on the moon and they're running out of oxygen and they've sabotaged this thing, and the you know, uh uh uh, you know, Uwatu is well, it's not a way it was a uh um uh what's his name at the time? The uh spy master was up on the moon. They're talking to him and they're doing this and all this. And I had this whole thing, I was like, oh yeah, we got the issue, and it's like Wade, you can go and like you can write out what you need, send Somni, and he'll get it drawn and good. We turned it out, and I was like, so I'm sorry I had to do work in the middle of all this. And my sister-in-law was like, that was the craziest work phone call I've ever heard in my life. But so the thing was like, you know, telling people like that was editing Black Widow, was getting on the phone and me and Wade and Somni going through beat by beat and figuring the whole thing out together on this phone call. And at this around the same time, I was also editing um Moon Knight with Jeff Lemere was writing it. Um and like Jeff Lemire turned in, I think, the last five scripts of that run all at the same time. Like turned in five scripts of the end of the script. He's like, This is it. Yeah, he's like, here's the end of the book, and I was like, okay, and I read those five scripts, and I went back to Jeff and I was like, Jeff, there's one line Frenchie has at the end of this script that doesn't match up with the line he has at the beginning of the next script. That's it, that's the note. And Jeff was like, okay, and he went in and he changed two words, yeah, and that was that was me editing five issues worth of scripts for Moon Knight. Yeah, like and both of those books are great. Yeah, and both of those editorial processes were what those books needed, you know, and it's just different. Yep. It's wild, but that's how it is.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Yeah, I talk about too, like sometimes with uh creators, it's it's a lot of like it's it's our job to, you know, coaching, right? Almost in a way of of how to get the best work out of the creator in the way that they work best and communicate with them the way they like a lot of creators are scared of their email, you know. They they will not look at their email. I don't want to look at my email, let's be honest. Um, and you know, like I have creators who are just like, would text me, like that's the only way, you know, you're gonna get a response out of me. Or I have another one who Instagram DM is the only way I can ever get a hold of them.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

I had to download WhatsApp for Michaela Bandini. He uses he's like, I'm a WhatsApp guy.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

All right, but that's what was it was uh, you know, I I won't name names, but uh there is a creator who uses one email for everything in their life, like you know, uh their kids' schools, their whole house stuff, their Amazon orders, their you know, like subscriptions and and all their comic stuff all on one email. And so they're just like, yeah, I don't look at that. Oh, but you know, like um Justin Ponzer, may he rest in peace, one of the greatest colorists of all time.

SPEAKER_05 35:17

Best to ever do it.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Really struggled with deadlines. Yep. Anyone who's ever worked with him, the pages would be worth it every time. The most beautiful, beautiful pages of all time. The only way you could get work out of him is if you picked up the phone and you called him and you talked about the Muppets, you talked about movies, you talked about for hours, but that was the only way you could get work out of him. Um some good times though.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Oh, yeah, the sweetest guy. Because he would just pick up the phone and be like, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

I know.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Uh yeah, but that's what he needed. I did many of those Justin calls. Yeah. Uh J Poe was great. But and you know, again, like you'd be upset that they were not in, but he was so sweet and he'd get it done.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

And he would get it, and it would just be stunning.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Man, the best.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Stunning, absolutely stunning. Do you have some uh uh speaking of like just like things not happening ever on time? Uh horror stories, any some fun, fun horror stories? Any anything of recent?

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Anything of uh I mean I like obviously I I won't name names, but there was a book I had. It's me, it's fine, you can say it was a Marvel book, and like it was a book I was so excited to work on for the full creative team. And we had this artist who had done a book that I'd loved, and I don't think he'd he either hadn't done something at Marvel or hadn't done something at Marvel for a long time. So it was like, oh, we're getting this guy back, this is cool. And um he just didn't turn anything in, and didn't turn anything in, and didn't turn anything in, and I kept writing and being like, guy, like we're we're here, and here's where we're at, and we need something, and we need something now, and he was like, It's coming, don't worry about it, I've got it, and I was like, whatever. And then like it was like two weeks before we were going to print or something. I wrote him and I was like, send me everything you have right now. We can't you we cannot keep doing this. And he wrote me back and he was like, I haven't really done anything. I was like, We'd announce the book, we'd put this guy's name out there and everything.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

For your honesty, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Well, his honesty then.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Well, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

So yeah, I just and like on the phone with him, I had to be like, Well, you're fired. I don't like you know, uh, and I had to go and get somebody else put on the book right away, and everything. And it was announced. Oh yeah, well, he had he had turned in like four pages, sure, and they were gorgeous, like, oh, they were so beautiful, they were so great, it was like perfect, and uh yeah, and then I had to just be like, Well, you're done. Yeah, like, okay, yeah. Um, and he did it and when he was on the phone with me, he was like, uh, when you announce that I'm off the book, can you say that it was like a schedule cut? It's like, don't don't tell people that I messed up stuff.

SPEAKER_05 38:20

You did bad, he's fired.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I was like, well, yeah, we're not gonna go out there and say press release so-and-so is fired. This guy was a dillweed who lied and screwed us. Like, no, we don't tend to do that. Um yeah, oh, what a nightmare. I mean, there were there were like two instances in my career at Marvel where I got hosed that bad.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

That is that's that's rough. That's that's super, super rough. Yeah. And it's and then sometimes it's like you did it yourself, right? Like you did it by like people are casting or you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah, well, yeah. Well, you you know, you spin that fantasy for yourself. We've got this person, they're the best person for this. But yeah, yeah. Like you you you see the book in your head and it's so perfect, and so you know, you know that they're screwing up, but you just want to believe so bad.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Oh, you're no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

They'll do it for me. Yeah, they'll do it for this book. Like they have to see it too. I can fix them. Oh my gosh. Do you do you have a a nightmare story that you go to as a warning for your staff? Do you have like teachable moments that you're doing?

SPEAKER_03 39:29

I definitely do, yeah. Oh my gosh, I have so many. I I all the time when I'm like training, you know, new editors or handy new editors, like this is your first first project to cast yourself or you know, whatever. I always like one problem child per book. Like if you're if you're going to, you know, build a team together, um, don't make it harder on yourself than you have to be, because like, you know, there's so many great creators out there, but often it's at what cost, you know. Everyone, I wish I could say every single one of your favorite creators out there hits every single deadline that they have, draws everything perfectly the first time, um, you know, doesn't need a lot of hand holding. But the fact is, you know, we're all humans making these, and that that doesn't often happen. And so, you know, if you're working with a writer that is always two weeks late and writes four more pages of script than they're allowed, and with a with a penciler who you need to bring on seven anchors to make sure it hits the deadline, and a colorist who, you know, and a cover artist that's never on time, all these things, like your your entire job is gonna be chasing rather than editing, right? And so um that's that's a huge warning, you know. And that was a lot of what I learned, honestly, a lot of what not to do when I was at Marvel, because you would get that a lot of times. You would these these big event books would be put together by creators that would try their best, yeah, but just couldn't deliver when you needed them to.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

It is particularly tough with the event books because stuff would rely on other stuff. No, we can't write this tie-in until this issue is done because we need to know what they're gonna do. Yeah, um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

So that that was always a huge, huge thing. And then a lot of my horror stories are again, they're things I I do to myself. Like, I mean, my biggest one I talk about all the time is um, you know, it's it's what is it? It's it's this book here, this lower decks uh warp your own way. It's our it's our interactive graphic novel. Um and like, you know, I'd always wanted to do a choose your adventure style like comic. I thought it was really cool, and no one had ever done one at this length. It's never been done before. And the, you know, I learned why. Um because it's really, really hard. Um, it's really, really hard. And I I will never forget the day I spent building the book map because it's not a one, two, three, four, five, six. That's not how you write a choose your own adventure. It's a tree, right? It's it's branchable paths, and this is a branchable path that has a correct path. It's it's gamified. There is there is a correct way to read the book, and that matters, like in and where the pages are placed. And so I printed out the whole book and I like did my little piles and I figured it all out, and it took me gosh, like I literally locked myself in my room and my office, and it took me 16 hours to build this out and test it, and then like and then put it in a book map and then like whatever, and like blah blah blah blah. And then I did it and I sent it to Ryan to look at, and he was just like, Well, the first choice needs to be on this page because of like something in the dialogue that I hadn't considered while I was building the book map because I was just going and I was just like, burn it all down, just burn it all down, I can't do this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Ryan's the guy to go to for that stuff though. He's so smart, he's so good. Yeah, I had one of my one of my uh frustrations is and this is like editors absolutely get themselves into trouble all the time. Yeah, because uh uh when we were doing at Marvel the like digital scrolling comics, uh we did one that was like a year of Marvels, and we're gonna do one for each month, yeah, but we had missed the January deadline, yeah. So the year went February to January, and I did the first one in February, and so I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do a Valentine's story, and I had this pitch that I because it was.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

You won the heart, right? Yeah, I remember because I was I was March or April, I think.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah, and it because it was all continuous motion, and so I had this story that I pitched to Ryan North where it would be Peter waiting for a date with MJ. Yeah, and then he would get into this fight with the vulture, and the vulture would like pick him up and they'd have a fight up a building and then across a roof. And go up and up and up and down and into the sewer and then back up where it started. And it because with one motion, if you could make it like zoom out. Out, then you would see, oh, the fight had done this shape of a heart. Um, and I pitched it, and Ryan was like, Cool, let's do it, and he did it, and then like the mechanics of the thing were so difficult, and the artist just was so grappling with trying to make it work and couldn't do it that it didn't pay. It was still a fun like the story happened, but the act because I was at the time I was like obsessed with um when you could see like game maps, yeah. So like the old Nintendo side scroller games, you zoom out and you can see the whole level. It's the coolest thing in the world. I was like, what if we could do that in a comic? Um but yeah, I mean, so and again, I was the first one. So we were already, we were so far behind, we lost January. Let's go the most conceptually stupid and obnoxious route I can. But yeah, you have to want to give yourself those headaches too. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

100%. I uh all the time when when this came out and then like it did really well, we won the Hugo for it. Like, um, you know, everyone is like, when's your next one? What's what's next? What are you doing? I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing this. I need I need a break. I mean I need I need a break. But I figured it out, I know what my next one is.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

So choose your adventure one. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

My next, my next uh makes me want to kill myself editorial project. So um, yeah, prepare the alcohol so we can all get through it together. Um it is. I can't.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Is it is it a license or original?

SPEAKER_03 45:29

It's an original, it's an original thing. Um, it's something as far as I'm concerned, has or as far as I'm concerned, as far as I'm aware, has never been done before, but it definitely um messes. I like I like playing with the format, right? Like that's one of the things I really love, and I and I learned a lot, you know, when I was doing Deadpool, is that you can do anything you want to with a comic. Like we did the the Deadpool annual, the fracking issue, where it was an activity book. Val Staples, the the only Deadpool comic I think he ever turned his pages in on time were pages that he literally colored with crayon. He printed them out, he literally colored them with crayon and scanned them in. Um, but it was like a crossword puzzle and a word search, and like it was super crazy and fun. And um, and and and you know, they did the Deadpool kill stuff and the Deadpool Kill streeted and all of that stuff was super weird. And the first comic I ever pitched at Marvel that got greenlit was The Mercenary of Venice. It was the Shakespeare Deadpool issue where it was all an IMA contaminer. Um we brought in Ian Dosher who writes the you know Star Wars Shakespeare and all the pop culture Shakespeare books to do it. Um, and you know, that was super fun. And you know, in Gwenpool, we really messed with the mechanics of what comics are, you know. She was aware of comics in a way that no character had ever really been, you know, before. Um, you know, they did a little bit with She-Hulk, and Gwenpool took what She-Hulk did and ran.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Yeah. Um it's one of my favorite gags in all of comics because there's a bit in Gwynpool where she gets offered the gig and it's so much money that she takes the marker out and draws the dollar signs on her own eyes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

It's that that meme is everywhere now. So funny. So funny. Um and and yeah, so like ever since that, it really, you know, like that's where, you know, ideas like this um come from. And it's it's always a what hasn't been done, you know, what how can I play with this form in a way that I haven't seen done before? But then also, like for me, like with this, you know, I knew Ryan's the guy, right? Ryan, Ryan, I know is up for it. He, you know, in the way. And so for me, it's always like, who's the team? Who's up for the super crazy thing that's gonna be a lot of work, a lot of stress, and and like with anything, and in in comics or media or games or anything creative, people might not care. You might spend all of this time and energy for a thing people and I might not care about. So um, but yeah, no, I I it's it's playing with form and read order and and release order in a way that I think could be really, really cool. So um, but that's all you're getting from me here. Um so more on more on that later. Yeah. Do you I mean, do you have any like big like ambitious things, you know, um that you you wanted to do that that happened either previously or you know, hoping to to do like that. Um because you know, that's the thing. Like, you know, editors are like you said, they're not our projects. They're not our we don't own them, but you know, we can inspire that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Yeah, well, uh, you know, uh we you are here because we've just had a big meeting with a bunch of the muckety mucks uh about the years ahead. Um, and I pitched a few of those things in this meeting, so we'll see if they happen. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, I uh I love when things are themselves. I love when there's a comic book that has to be a comic book, when there's a movie that has to be a movie, a book that could be nothing other than a book, you know, really taking advantage of the form and that kind of stuff. Um and so yeah, these things that really let you just explode comics um are some of my favorite things, you know. Um are there any particular artists you have that you feel like, you know, we've talked a little bit about writers, yeah. Like artists that you feel like use the form or or that you've worked with in a really interesting way that you feel like, oh, this person is, you know. Did you have like one of those awestruck moments uh art wise?

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Oh, for sure. I think, you know, he's not super, super well known, but John Davis Hunt is one for me that I think I I love his stuff. He's he's one of those, you know, when I give portfolio reviews, I often talk to artists like, don't draw every single brick, don't draw every single shingle, don't draw, you know, it's all gonna get covered up. First of all, it's gonna take forever.

SPEAKER_05 50:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

And you're gonna hate every second of it. But also, it's gonna all get covered up by balloons. It's all gonna, you know, like all of these things. But John Davis Hunt is one of those artists that like draws the minute detail. Um, and it like you can't help but stare at it in the best way.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Yeah, and but he also knows how to use space too. Like he he knows how to balance it. He's got the the uh balloons in mind and stuff. Like, yeah, he's extraordinary.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

And um, it was um uh was it the clean room comic he did with Gail Simone, where he got to do like just the most insane grotesque of body horror that like is disgusting, like it truly, truly is. Um, but like it's one of my favorite horror comics because of the art, because of how grotesque and and truly the page turns, you know, like how he can affect all of that stuff. I mean, he's he's so incredible. Anytime I get to work with Tradmore is just like such a he's you know, visually just like so surreal, literally, is very surrealist style. Um, and it's just absolutely, absolutely incredible and what he can what he can do. And I I definitely like love the artists that like again push the boundaries of of the style of comics because you know, I think a lot of people, especially those that don't read a ton of comics, think every single comic looks like a Superman comic. But like if you look at the history of Superman comics, there's a lot of different art styles that you know Superman has been drawn in. And so, you know, I definitely love, you know, I don't know if you do this, but I definitely have my list of artists that I keep my eye on that I want to find the right project for because you could, you know, you could take a Tradmore or a Mike Delmondo or a you know a Dennis Mineeri who is gonna be drawing the new Star Trek book and um put them on something that doesn't suit that style, right? Yeah, and that's setting them up for failure as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Yeah, one of the most frustrating things is to see a great artist on something that doesn't fit.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Yeah. No, for sure, for sure. And and so, like, you know, I have that there's an artist coming up on a upcoming IDW uh dark book that will be coming out this fall that I can't announce here, but um, they've been on my short list for a long time, for years. I've had them like, you know, they're gonna pop in like two years. Like they're you know, they're they're I just gotta find the right project. I just gotta find the right project. And um I I was able to convince the writers, like, no, this this is the person, this is the person, and I finally get to work with them on something, and I'm so pumped about it. Because that's like some of the most fun about what our job is is getting to pair.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, that's such a huge part of the job, too. That was another line from the great Tom Breport was 90% of comics is casting. 100%. Once you've cast the book, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

90% of comics is casting.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

It's 90%, 100% of the time. Hell yeah. Yeah, you know, like once you've got the book cast, then like the book exists. Yeah, it just has to get made. Yeah. You know? Um, so that's that's it's fun, but also harrowing. I never get more anxious at this job than I do with casting.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Well, especially when you loop in licensors too, right? Because licensors a lot of time most times, and understandably, their job is to protect the brand, right? Their job is to protect the integrity of the brand and it should be. But like, you know, our job is always to kind of expand and push, you know, what it can be.

SPEAKER_04 53:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

Um, and like that can be scary for a licensor, you know, uh bringing on um someone that draws in a different way than they've ever seen their characters in before. You know, that can be very, very frightening to them. It's something I know I deal with a lot too, because I deal with actor likenesses a lot. And that's a whole other layer of you know, can of worms um to deal with because you know, you might have these actors see a picture and be like, that looks nothing like me. I'm angry now, you know, and and you never want that. So um, you know, there's there's how do you how do you pitch a a new artist to a licensor to always always keep in mind?

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Yeah, it's it's an interesting struggle to to try to get that idea across of like artistically this is interesting, like this person's style says something about what this story is and that kind of thing. Which you know, talking about comics as a medium, this is one of my like heretical views. And I think that it comes from me not having grown up reading comics, so I'll be curious to see if you kind of feel similarly. Like there are so many people I know who like big diehard comics fans, and all they want is like one artist to be on a run for as long as possible. And there are times where that's great, but like one of the things I love the most about comics is that you can change the reality of something within the thing itself by changing the artist, you know. Uh, I think that stuff that's some of my favorite stuff. Like, and one of my favorite runs that I worked on was that Jeff Lemere Moon Night run. And like it was a it was a question of schedule. Like, Greg Smallwood had been on that book for a long time, and he's an incredible artist, but like he he was running out of room, you know, and we had these conversations about like, well, are are we gonna just give an issue away because it was a very contained run, or are we gonna do this? And then I realized that, like, oh, Jeff's story involves these different moon, like his personality splitting and going in these different worlds, and I was like, well, we'll just do different artists. Different artists, so Greg doesn't have to do 20 pages an issue, he's doing 14. And he can do that, and then we can have James Stoko and Wilfredo Torres and Francesco Francavilla come in and do these other realities, and like that was gorgeous to me. Like either flipping through that book, and so then we would have pages where there were three artists on different pages, and the realities were running into each other, and visually they were clashing and stuff, you know. And like to me, that was so exciting. And that was comics, yeah, in a way where, you know, and and again, like I know some people are just like, oh, the one artist and their vision. And I'm like, yeah, but isn't it also kind of the fun?

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that's one of the I mean, just working, you know, with I I know we cringe at the word IP, but like that's one of the most interesting things about what we do is getting to see other artists and other writers' interpretations of of these worlds. I think that's the coolest thing.

SPEAKER_04 56:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Um, because so many times, you know, in in in other like TV shows and you know, movies and and and all these other worlds, it's the one, it's the one point of view, you know, and and that's fine and great, but it is, I think that's what's so so fun about comics in particular, is you know, that the alchemy of casting and and these pairings together and seeing, well, if I took a little bit of this and I took a little bit of that and I put it in this pot, you know, what what's gonna come out of it? And it's gonna be different every single time. And I think, you know, that that Moon 9 example is such a great example of um, you know, using the form specifically for what you can do. Obviously, a big part of our job is, you know, hypothesizing dream books and dream castings and you know, for our own titles, but also just like what's out there in the world and and stuff like that. Um Living or Deceased. Oh, wow. Do you have like a dream cast or a dream project that you like wish would happen?

SPEAKER_00 57:56

Oh, like that's a very interesting question. Um because like just opening it up entirely, like my dream is to work with a creator on like the project they've always wanted to do, but didn't feel like they could, yeah, and have me help them. Like, you can do it. This is it, yeah, we'll make it happen. Uh that would be like the dream.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

But like as a fan.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

As a fan, yeah. I'm trying to think like uh uh a comic book that I'm like a big fan of.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

I want to pick something that I haven't worked on.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

That makes sense, you know? No, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Um this is gonna be so obvious. Yeah. This is gonna be super obvious. I apologize in advance. But like I think every comic book editor wants to take a swing at Batman. Like, I I think even if you don't like Batman, you're still like, I could fix them. If you don't like them, and if you do like them, I'll give them therapy.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

You know, I'll do the therapy arc that'll fix Bruce Wayne.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Uh and you know, like obviously I'm a big Hickman fan, as we've heard earlier. And like, I think there's very few people in comics who actually think like Batman. Yeah. And Hickman's one of them. Like you're seeing.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

You know, now that now that you're saying it, I'm putting you're 100% correct. And he's never done it.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

No, he's never done Batman. No. So having it like getting because again, if I don't know if he's ever putting this stuff out there, but his planning documents are so beautiful and so amazing. He's got charts and graphs, like he's really thought through the emotional beats, yeah, how things hit, who's like all of the characters' strengths and weaknesses. Like, here's how we can most hurt this person.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Oh, 100% Hickman is.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

He's like, Great, you're on to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

You're gonna get an email.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Like, uh, you know, to to see how Hickman would build a Batman universe. Um that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

And this is probably not a necessarily a great pairing, but since it's just my fan casting, sure. One of my favorite artists of all time, I was working with him. I was one of the last people to see him alive, the great Steve Dillon.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

I don't know that Steve drew a lot of Batman. I don't think so. So if I could have living legend Jonathan Hickman writing a Batman, because I would also want his Batman to be weird in the way that Steve Dillon's characters were weird. Like, because Steve Dillon drawing Batman villains. Yeah. Like, and like Hickman Batman villains would probably be really cool. Yeah. Really weird, really messed up.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

That's such an interesting pairing. Yeah. But like I could see, yeah, I could, it's, it's interesting. I definitely see like a Steve Dillon Batman universe and a Jonathan Hickman Batman universe. But I don't know if it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

I don't know that they're the same. Yeah. But you're asking me, you're you're you're you're letting me uh uh live in my fantasy. Why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

I love it. I love this. I I approve. I approve. I would read that book. Or both books, if depending on what they are.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Absolutely. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:31

Oh man, I mean, my my fan cast, my my pitch is also for a property that has never been comics and I don't think will ever be comics, but like, God, if I haven't tried so hard to get an in in order to make them comics, um, Fallout. Um the Fallout universe, which I just think like is so ripe for you know continued storytelling. There's hundreds and hundreds of years. And what I think is so interesting, and what they did really well with those games, right, is that um it's it they create they truly created a universe versus just like a character you're attached to. They created a universe that is so fascinating and full of interesting characters, right? And so um, I just think that works so well for the mechanics of what comics are. Um, but I would especially love a Jerry Duggan Fallout story. Um, because he just does that dark, uncomfortable humor. Yeah, absolutely so well of what Fallout because Fallout is weird. Fallout is so weird and it's so uncomfortable and it's so unsettling. Um, but there is a lot of heart to those stories at the end of the day, and no one does that better than than you know, Jerry Duggan and Absolutely. Um, you know, I mean Deadpool himself is basically a creature of the wasteland. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

You could plop him down and fallout, and that makes a ton of sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

Exactly. And then, like, again, I don't know if it's the proper pairing, but it's an artist that I think would also kill at this is Ryan Brown. Like, Ryan Brown um just just does this goofy comedy, like weird, you know, um, weird stuff. But he also draws horror really well too, um, which not a lot of people know. Um, but he draws really, really good horror. So um I just think he would he would do he would do some very funny, interesting stuff with all the ghouls and you know everything in that universe. So if one day I ever get to make Fallout comics, um, even though they very explicitly said they're not interested in doing additional storytelling. One day, one day. Uh, good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

That's a fun one. I'd read that book.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

Right? Yeah, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:46

Well, here we go. I I'm gonna I'm gonna put two questions to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

All right, and I and they're tied, they're interconnected.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:53

Okay, okay. Layers. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Let's let's go with Raina's question about what story amongst all the Star Trek stories you would recommend for someone who wants to get into the IDW Star Trek universe and additionally, what makes a great Star Trek story? Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

I love that. I love that. So um, if you're only gonna pick up one, and let's say you've you've heard of Star Trek, um, but you know, you you never really watched it, or you might have caught a rerun here and there, and maybe the Chris Pine movies, but you wouldn't call yourself like a Trekkie, right? Um, but you like comics, you like space comics, um and you're interested in giving it a shot. After all, it is the 60th anniversary, so like get out and celebrate, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:45

Do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

Um I highly, highly, highly recommend Star Trek The Last Starship. Um, not just plugging that because it's our current flagship, but it like truly is, I think, um, the greatest Star Trek comic that's ever come out. Um, it is, you know, it's it's in an era that it's a period of 300 years of Star Trek history that has never been explored before. Um it's called The Burn. Uh trillion people have just died due to their um energy source uh blowing up across the galaxy. And the Federation is, you know, well, it's down to its last starship, you know, are we keeping this utopia of peace together? And um and it really is a comic that is questioning the ideals of the Federation and can hope withstand like complete devastation. Um and uh, you know, yes, we do bring back Captain Kirk from the dead. Uh so if you are a fan of the most famous captain to ever uh Captain the Enterprise, he is there for you by unconventional means. But it really, you know, um there's there's no lore required to enjoy this. This is just a great story of, you know, uh what is good in the face of devastation. Um, and you know, I think I think, you know, to answer your second question, what makes a good Star Trek comic is, you know, though Star Trek has, you know, will never say in text, like in a script or, you know, whatever, like, it's about progress, it's about challenging, you know, oppression. Um, like that is what it is. And it's always about how do we show a mirror to to the current times and how we overcome, you know, like how do we overcome, you know, um, regression? How do we just be a better society? How do we, you know, not give in to, you know, some of the darker uh urges that we may have, you know, how do we persist? How do we stay resilient um in the faces of when when you know being evil is easy? Um and I just I think there's a lot of cool, I think a lot of people think Star Trek is just like nerdy space and you know, being perfect. Um, but I hate to bring it to you, Captain Kirk is a mess. Um and uh he usually very much does the wrong thing, but for the right reasons. Um, so it's a lot of fun and just uh Jackson, Jackson Lance and Colin Kelly are doing the like this is their Magnum opus of Star Trek. Um and Adrian Bonilla, who is a new artist we brought into IDW for this. Uh it's like gritty, noir art. It's so cool. Like the way his layouts and the way he thinks about things are just like it's so heavy and just beautiful. And I love this book.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

Um I I am a very casual Star Trek fan. I like it, but I I have dabbled. Um, but I love reading that book. And I think one of the things that's really cool about it is that I think a very unfair and silly criticism that Star Trek sometimes get is that like, oh, it's like a post-scarcity future. So like it's easy, oh, like they've they've solved all the problems. Yep. You know, and what this book does is it takes away a lot of those solutions, but like the dream of the Federation is still there, and they have to like fight to rebuild it. Like, what does it mean to actually have those beliefs, not just, you know, oh, we can do this because we live in the post-scarcity world or whatever. Like, no, they have to really fight for those beliefs here. Uh, and it's that's a such a cool concept.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:37

Ah, well, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's the like you can't kill an idea, but they're but they're trying. They're trying. Um, and will will they succeed? Yeah. I mean, same, same with you. I mean, like Teenage Mute Ninja Turtles like just had its 40th anniversary. You know, some of the biggest comics that that are that there's so many of them, you know. Like, yeah, um, if you had to pick one TMNT like comic, um what for someone to pick up who might not be as because I didn't grow up with TMNT, so you know what what would you suggest to someone who might be interested and and also what makes a great TMNT story?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

Yeah, well, you know, it's really tough. Uh because I I I'm a little torn because there is like the original Mirage Run with Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman is to my mind some of the most invigorating comics ever made. Like if you read those first ten issues of that run, it's it's like my dream comics because it's comic like and I, you know, I I think they'll say this like they were young and they didn't know what they were doing, so they figured they could do anything. Yeah, and those ten issues, especially, like those first ten, are just like pure comics creativity of these dudes just throwing everything at the wall. As someone who had been a fan of Turtles but hadn't been super steeped in the comics, when I went and read that first run, it was wild to me how much are in those first ten issues. So, like, as far as like pure comics go, not just turtles, but like if you want somebody to see, like, this is what it's like when two dudes get together in a room and play.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

The first 10 TMNT comics from that Mirage run are like unbeatable. Yeah, they're amazing. The whole run's great, but again, that was just you know, you can tell at a certain point they figure it out, and the stories maybe become better, right? But not as like just electrifying.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

Um, but then there's also like very recently, Jason Aaron did his run. He did. And I think Jason's one of the best writers around. And one of the things that Jason does better than anyone, and they set him up perfectly on this run, is he distills down into the core of a book, I think better than anyone. Yeah. You know, he is so great at finding like the simple core of something, and saying, Oh, this is what a story is, like, this is what a Thor story is, you know. This is what a Wolverine story is at its heart, you know. And his Turtles run is like, this is what a Turtles story is, and the thing that he really focused on was family and adventure. Like those are to me the like two core tenets of a Turtles book. You've got family and adventure. And um I think the his bead on the brothers was so perfect, they feel like a family, um, and his Jason Aaron sense of adventure, like everything's out of control. You never feel like you're on rails, you feel like anything could happen at any time. The art on that book is extraordinary. Like the first four issues done by some of the best artists in the business. Then Juan Ferreira takes the first four, right? And then Juan Ferreira takes over, and Juan, I had worked with him a few times at Marvel. I think he's just staggeringly brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:20

And I and I think, yeah, I mean, Brotherhood is definitely what I think of, right? For a good TMNT story for sure, having that in there. And I think one of the things that Jason himself doesn't get enough credit for in his run, and he does really well in the turtle stuff, but just in all of his things, is he's a very funny writer.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Oh, he's so funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:37

Stuff is always like people he he writes very, very serious books. Like the turtles run, he did is a very serious, you know, heavy, but he has these moments where they're so funny, and the turtles are, you know, in particular, like very humorous at times, you know. And um yeah, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

And you know, just the the tone shifts that guy does again. Like he he gives every comic is a feast. Yes, you know, it's funny, it's sad, yeah, it's exciting. Like he he's so good at just giving you the full run of emotion. Yeah. Which again, like going back to those first inities and everything, that idea of like what's a Turtles comic, what do you got? Like, what do you want? Um he he picked up on that too in a way that I just thought was extraordinary and very new reader friendly. Like again, you can read that Jason Ron knowing nothing about the Turtles, and he's going to make sure you understand exactly who the Turtles are uh by the end of it. And uh it's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:31

Jake, this was an invigorating conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

Heather, I love working with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:35

I love working with you too.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

I mean, you know, I I somewhat owe you this job. You are a connection here. Oh, well, I'll take it. Yeah, so uh uh you helped bring me in here. You're stuck with me now. Uh I'm super excited to be working with you. I'm excited for the books that IDW puts out as a great publisher, and I'm thrilled to be the new guy on the team.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Uh and and working with a veteran of comics of IDW and of friendship.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

Aw, no, I mean, same. I mean, you know, I was so I was so excited that that you wanted to come work here because like we had great times at Marvel and you do great work. I love everything that you do, and I think um your vision for just comics in general and what comics could be is so cool. And, you know, together you and I and the rest of the team here, I think are cooking up some really incredible plans, not just with Turtles and Star Trek, but with everything else we're doing. And uh I couldn't be more excited. This is so cliche, but I couldn't be more excited for the future of IDW comics.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

Future so bright, yeah. You gotta wear shades. All right. Well, thank you for listening slash watching. Go read a comic book.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:48

Yeah, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

Hi. I hope you enjoyed listening as much as I did. If you want to explore more from these creators, go to your local comic shop or go to our website at idwpublishing.com.