Laser Precision Meets Marine Mastery: The Evolution of Yacht Building

In Episode 2 of The Bolt, we sit down with Jason Machovsky of Nordlund Custom Boat Builders to explore what it truly takes to build world-class vessels. From decades of craftsmanship to cutting-edge innovation, this conversation dives into the balance between tradition and technology inside one of the most respected shipyards in the industry.

We go beyond the surface to unpack the realities of modern yacht building—where wood, metal, composites, coatings, and complex mechanical systems must come together seamlessly. From meticulous surface preparation to the integration of advanced materials, every detail plays a role in achieving a flawless, high-performance finish. We also explore the growing role of laser technology in shipyard operations, and how it’s reshaping efficiency, precision, and sustainability without compromising quality.

Jason shares insight into the challenges of refits, where working within aging vessels requires both creativity and discipline, as well as the impact of evolving environmental regulations on coatings, materials, and processes. The conversation also highlights the human element behind it all—the skilled craftsmen, mentorship, and experience that continue to define excellence in an increasingly automated world.

This episode is a deep dive into the intersection of marine mastery and next-generation manufacturing, offering a rare look inside the systems, people, and innovations driving the future of yacht building.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome back to the bolt, everybody. I am here with Jason Machovsky with Nordland Yachts, world-class boat builders. We're here to talk today about his operation and technology in their business and in our laser operations. Jason, tell us a little about your history. You have a pretty interesting history and how you got started in the yacht business.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Oh, thanks, Ryan. It's a 30-minute podcast, so we won't die we won't dive into that too far. But had the opportunity after having a career at sea and being a shipyard consumer for many years, had the opportunity to buy a business that had been family owned for 65 years at that point. And it was a yard I had worked with previously on two different projects. And so I was really fortunate to be able to get into that. And I knew that the craftsman and the talent that the yard had and and the name that they had nationwide and worldwide for a quality product. So it really just was a great opportunity and a great time and and uh it's been a very exciting ride so far.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

I would have to say getting to visit your facility certain things you know strike you. You know, and you're going through and for the first part, we're up, you know, we're we're we're talking upstairs, but getting to walk through your facility and see the wood shops, the metal shops, the employees, the coatings teams, and walking into and the cleanliness and organization of the of the facility and how uh one kind of the scope of it. You're looking, I'm looking up and an entirely contained, you know, vessel, like working in a a bubble, and and the people that I'm watching are these are craftspeople. These are these are true um craftsmen talking to your metals guy, your your uh um what was his name? Yeah, Rick. Rick was uh just so uh something's doing right there. And I think I I think uh you have a wonderful team. You can just kind of tell.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Well, no, I appreciate that. I really do. And and you being from a background uh in in construction, construction tech and stuff, you can probably identify it. But there uh are lots of non-glamorous days in a shipyard. Uh I like your comment about cleanliness because we often feel like we turn thousand dollar bills into dust for a living. Yeah. Um that's how it feels a lot of days.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, me too, sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

But uh the end product, and I think even, you know, some of the jobs are kind of mundane. Um they might appear that way, and and there's no glory and uh or glamour in rolling on bottom paint. But yeah, I think I'm very proud of the craftsman and the skilled labor that we have, and the fact that they are there is a level of passion. Rick is very passionate about metalwork and metallurgy, and he's an he's an artist who works with that medium. And uh, we have a number of employees that kind of have that same outlook, and we're very fortunate. And that's what we need. I I do tell my crew that they are pretty AI proof, pretty tech proof, because it does require that skill level, that craftsman's eye to do what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I can see it. And simultaneously walking through, somebody has to step back and look at all the components of the operation together. The staging of things that are happening, uh, different work activities happening in you know, different areas, and then um, and then you also have to, I wouldn't call it a granularity, but you have to focus in on a higher level of detail, much like what we were discussing down here today. Yeah, looking at the finishes that you're requiring on a boat and the different materials you're working with. And a lot of the our discussion today is about surface preparation and substrates and and cleaning and environmental aspects of working in there and all of that. But I'm sitting here and I'm going, okay, you've got the fiberglass, you've got the the wood verniers that we're talking about, the composites, any number of different coating systems for different things. Um and all, and then of course the engines and the machine and the mechanical side and how the HVAC works in the boat and how the navigation works and all that stuff coming together. Do you have you're you've got to have probably some of the engineering types you're drawing from? It's an ecosystem that has to work together. But boy, do they have to get down and focus on details because we were sure talking about the details that you guys are putting into your boats for that clientele and that class of boat.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Absolutely. And it's a it's a massive collaborative effort from the naval engineers and architects in every project we have to approach with a clearly defined end where we're trying to go and where we want to stop. And a lot of times, especially as the refit market has really exploded, it's never a question on a boat that's been in use or a ship that's been in use for several years. It's not so much a question of where do we start this project, but it's knowing where to stop. Because some of these literally you could you could not stop. You could basically take an older vessel and make it new again. But there's practical considerations. Um monetary, but beyond that as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

So you're working within oftentimes a structure that might be 20, 30 years old, yeah, integrating what can be done around the architecture of that vessel, structural and mechanical and everything else, almost like remodeling a home or something where you're you're working within a in some constraints, but making it work. Is that how is that a that's accurate?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Unlike a home though, um you know, we have even our simpler boats, if you look, just taking an electrical panel for a house. If you have a big custom home, you'll have a you might have 400 amps, uh definitely 200 amp service. So you'll have a panel in a garage or in a closet or somewhere. Right. Um and it'll have you know uh two big rows of breakers. On a vessel, you have probably four times that many breakers, AC, you'll have DC panels. Oh, right. And now we're having uh with big inverted power systems, you have a whole nother layer of complexity. And then you have all of the systems on the boat. You mentioned HVAC. Uh our HVAC systems require seawater cooling uh of the compressors and the chiller units. So you've got uh a very we have a the challenge of so many different elements that we have to incorporate into a seamless experience for the user, and it has to be able to be maintained. So we have to fight you know marine growth in our uh raw water cooling systems, and we're using so many different materials that are um reacting to uh water exposure, sun exposure, thermal changes, and oftentimes they don't all react the same way. Uh expansion and contraction of aluminum and fiberglass, for example, can make window seals a challenge because uh that seal in between those two are constantly working. So developing ways we can so boats are the same thing. And they're moving.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Sometimes they're moving a lot.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

I think about that years ago we used to do the fiberglass old old school tank linings and big cooling towers, and so we knew that there was a difference in a modulus of elasticity between um the fiberglass and and and the and the uh the casing sections. Absolutely. So we were in here put trying different primers like rubber primers that would help with that, you know, shock, I guess, for lack of a better word. But uh that's been our experience with fiberglass. But there's tell me more about the uh fouling and corrosion and some of the issues you're seeing on boats with regards to surfaces. So we looked at some stuff today, but wood's gonna get weathered, uh, fiberglass gets oxidized or things and corrosion. What type of things do you see when you're refitting boats and surface, you know, like in some of the surfaces and hiding corrosion?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

We've got the environmental top side and then the environmental bottom side. And those two are are quite different. So, and then we have the challenge by constantly evolving and trying to get to better environmental uh mitigating environmental impacts or potential impacts.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

So for me, environmental impacts is that the of of the corrosion or the fix?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Well, in the in the aquatic environment, I could give you a good example. So for many, many years, the standard for bottom paints on boats was very high in copper and zinc. And uh environmentally, so that did a good job of keeping things from uh living organisms from growing on the bottom of the boat. The copper was toxic to that. Uh environmentally, it was as that would uh ablate, as it would slough off the bottom of ships and boats, um, it would fall to the bottom, and that would prevent organisms from growing potentially in the waterways. So that was a negative. So um regulatory-wise, we've had to remove a lot of that copper. Um that's gotten a little tighter over the case. Yeah, and so coming up with solutions that work, and so there's been all kinds of innovations. One of the things we looked at downstairs, that green coating. Um, that works by being extremely slippery when it's in the water. So you mentioned it's causing the material to slough off it. And that one, the material just can't adhere. And as long as the vessel is in operation and moving, yeah, it it's very effective. It doesn't work on something that gets parked and for long periods of time, it's gonna it's gonna not work as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Um then the bottom paint um is is a sloughing paint or an aballative paint, um, which is basically things will start to grow on it, but then they keep it. Is that the black coating? That's the black coating.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Okay, sure. Yeah, so what it would be the standard adhesion that's on the the the wet side of the hole, under the water line.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

That's like water, and that black that black coating is actually uh permeable, it's water permeable. Okay. So it's not a barrier, that's why it had that gray epoxy underneath it. Right. So that's to be the barrier between the water and the fiberglass or the metal, whichever the whole material would be. Topsides, we have a whole nother challenge with ultraviolet and salt being very abrasive. Um so the stability of topside coatings is different, and the the expectation for the yachts for topside coating is uh the standards very high. I mean, it's it's new car exterior.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Under like preparation, is that like under AMP standards? Well, that would be surface preparation, association of material performance. Or uh does that stuff have to get who does the inspections on those type of coatings?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Is is it we see that out in So it would depend on what you're doing. So if you're doing government contract stuff, they will provide a mill spec, which is a thickness only, um, but you have to meet the mill spec.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Um what kind of paints are they putting on?

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I always just thought of things as like gel coat with a top, you know, is it is it a coating on top of a smaller boats typically are are gel coat is very common uh as your finish and it can be buffed to a gloss.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Uh gel coat is a challenging material to match, especially with sun exposure over time. Uh it can be difficult to get a good color match. Uh paint, we do on the on the big yachts, we do far more with with paints, and they're marine-specific paints. Um, just like you've got automotive specific or house-specific paints. These are uh top coats that that the major manufacturers, um, all grip in particular, spend you know, millions of dollars to develop uh and constantly trying to get uh a good balance between uh luster or gloss, depth of depth of finish, right, and um color stability and and smoothness. And the paints are very alive, very dynamic. Um they will respond to temperature. You you think you paint it and it dries, and that's that, but we actually find that there is a curing process that can be four to six months depending on temperature.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Is that right? Four to six months. That's uh but I I I would see things, you know, get chalky out there or whatnot. And speaking of you know, technology, I would see epoxies chalking out in the sun, but bleaching, you're talking things that could they're you're changing the color appearance and absolutely and of the material. And speaking of that, you know, we've been doing a lot of work on. I I mentioned some of the auto companies we're working with in etching coatings to maybe put a new coating on top, utilizing the lasers for um selective stripping or surface preparation without we were talking a lot about uh temperatures underneath or overheating that, you know, moving along to not overheat and underlying coating to cause adhesion issues. Um but when you're looking at this is hand work you're talking about, right? These are guys they're they're hand spraying and they're yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

And we are very much in a shipyard, uh it's a time and material business, and so everyone is looking for efficiency and value. We are uh and clients are when they're bringing us a product. So whether it's a new construction and finish or it's a repair, uh we um, and one of the things that's that's interesting to work with you and and look at the lasers, there are so many man hours that go into surface prep and finish, and the finish is only as good as the prep below it. So uh, you know, we were talking about our non-skid finishes for decking and how many hours it takes to basically sand off sandpaper with sandpaper. And is there is there a better way to do that? Is there a way we can we can mitigate that massive uh number of labor hours and give a superior product?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And consumables, waste streams. It's worse with sandblasting, you know, up in Alaska, Sundan, the guys are like, Do you know what it costs us to ship sand and move sand back or out at Boeing, you know, the waste streams and things like that. And then the waste stream. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So we sandblast now because it's the most time-efficient way to strip off significant amounts of uh bottom paint for in the most case for us. But then at the end, you've got the cleanup, which is almost a quarter of the job, and then the disposal, uh safe disposal of that aggregate.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

What do you consider when you're looking at new technologies? You you have you have proven systems for things, but something like a laser or other type of equipment. You've had probably people in there with robotic things that we had talked about or other other um uh prep methods. What are you kind of looking at? And you know, when you're evaluating, yeah, you know, that that makes sense for our team, or the cost, you know, the use case for things.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

But so we know where we need to end. We know where that finish, we want to have that finish at the end. And uh, you know, whether it's a wood finish or it's a paint, uh, we know what our expectation is at the end. So is the question is is there a way that we can make that craftsman who's working on that part his time is valuable.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

How do we how do we make that the most efficient use without sacrificing the end result?

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

And and so that's it. So, you know, and it's challenging, and and you know, we're talking high level of finish, think piano top finish. Um, and then you you've seen some of the samples we gave you that have a veneer, which is used uh because we can put a beautiful veneer finish on something, we can mitigate the weight. So maybe we do that over a chord panel instead of doing a solid one, the weight is an issue. Yeah, and two, the the material, teak, for example, is extremely expensive. Well, compared to some of these designer woods that they want to use on these interiors, you would never buy those pieces in whole logs and use, you know, three-quarter inch thick for a cabinet face. You're gonna you're gonna use that veneer. Well, how do we get uh right now it's hand sanding and then it's it's laying on layers of uh finish. Can we speed that up? And if we have to do a repair, is there a way we can preserve that piece of veneer, which is very thin? And so when you talked about some of your early laser, you know, some of the things that it's capable of, and you said, Well, I can take the print off that piece of paper, that got me thinking, well, can we take this finish off this veneer? Yeah, which is kind of like a little thicker than construction paper. It got me thinking. And then, you know, trying to work together to figure out can we do that in a way that leaves us a nice, clean, uniform finish? And so that's your challenge that you absolutely go back and try and work out. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

That's the lab work behind the scenes, right? That's the the dialing in of different settings, fluence. Uh you're also looking at, well, it was it was interesting to look, you know, because I I did know there was a veneer on it, but wait, that's paper thin. That is a paper thin veneer, and you're telling me that they would would they sand that then down?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Well, or like currently, currently we typically will just have to remake the entire panel because if we start sanding that it's it's too you don't have enough to take you sand through that, and once you've done that, it it that part so we can re-vener over potentially and and we apply that veneer under vacuum typically.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Where did you think, like on the face of it, that this had, you know, from what we saw today, we tested uh we tested your uh plate with your sacrificial coating. What's the name of the coating? It's the slick material.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Uh prop speed is commercial. That's the commercial name for that. Yep. There are several varieties of it, but that particular one is prop speed.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

And that looking at kind of the stages of uh then we're looking at time.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yep, and that one is is a little bit cruder uh because we're trying to get the metal to a point where we can put the the material back on. So we're not looking for uh cruder is not the right word. Let's just say it's less delicate because we're doing cleaning material off of stainless in order to reapply the same material back on. Right. So it's getting to a clean substrate, is what we're after there. And I think uh the question then is you know, we just extrapolate, we know how long it takes for us to do that with chemicals and and blue scotride pads now. How long will it take if we use a laser to do that? That's a question that you know obviously is a really easy um cost-benefit analysis.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

That makes sense. And the and then in contrast, the non-skid, um, and you mentioned that was on the fiberglass, that was fiberglass, and then paint. And looking at, we were we were getting that material off, kind of looking at square feet per hour and getting it down right, you know, to the fiberglass or very uh somewhere where you can get a good adhesion in order to do it. But again, not overheating the right the substrate underneath, because unlike steel, you see a lot of guys out in steel and on the boats with lasers, and then that creates those are usually metallurgical issues if you were to overheat, you know, you kind of understand what's going on with the metal. Composites uh have different properties themselves. So for us, we think a lot about uh what's going on underneath that we're we're achieving those results, and that those results can be repeatable because you're putting them in somebody's hands. And I think that in the United States, you know, there's a lot of feeling that the lasers. Are a tool. It's well, it's a program. It is a tool, phenomenal tool, but it's part of a trade program. Wood substrates are different. We were talking about if you oh um you could sand or overheat, you know, if you're treating a surface of wood one way versus another, you can affect how it'll re-retake a coating or a stain. And so for us, that could be we saw some scorching or some uh overlap discoloration. And to your point, if you're on those thin verniers or things that, well, they can't be sanded, and you I guess from my perspective, you're looking at it kind of like uh overlap or the settings are slightly too high, and then you're you're kind of finding the sweet spot where you're you're able to get off the coating that's on top of it, and as you see, clear coatings have unique, real unique properties to them, and then uh being able to get that with no uh with no visible impact to the surface because that will then be magnified the minute you put the clear coat back on that's pulling those, pulling that color. Is that am I saying that correctly? No, that's accurate.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

And if you just picture and and I think people who've redone floors in a home can attest to this. Uh anyone who's ever worked with wood, you know, you sand wood, you sand it with the grain. If you take even a fine piece of sandpaper, maybe 220, and you take it across the grain, yeah, it'll leave very small scratches. The to the naked eye, maybe it's maybe it's 400 grit. You might not see it on that piece of wood until you put a coating or a stain on it, and all of a sudden it will jump off the wood and you'll it'll be very obvious. And unfortunately, you don't know that. It's very tough to tell. I mean, you can wipe uh thinner over it and kind of get an idea of what it looks like. But truly, until you wipe a stain over it or you wipe uh put on a clear finish, a varnish or a clear uh finish, you won't know. And at that point, you're committed. So you you need to have a process that you know is leaving you a good ready-to-finish uh surface.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

But if we think about that, and with the lasers in the many different types of woods, the many different types of finishes, even wood, some of the wood uh uh when you guys I see when I'm was there, I'm seeing everybody, respirators, ventilate, fume extra, you know, that that everything's set up and those spaces, that's why I was saying, boy, this is very clean for doing you know the sanding and the uh and the the work. But woods even have their own weird uh toxins. Did you know? They do, you know, and I'm like, so if you're in, I I look at it on boats or or I look at it relative to knowing that each wood has its own like ablation threshold, soft, softwoods, hardwoods, the different coatings and stains that are going in. It's uh it's kind of a science in itself. And I think with lasers, they're making great progress about getting uh standards or a scientific approach to it. But I think it's a bit fragmented around the world. You know, there's there's groups working on things and having, but it's not like I can go to where I go in the HVAC side of what we're doing and go to the Ashray handbook of standards, but it's it's interesting. And then the cleanliness around that using good fume extraction, if you're in somebody's house and you're ripping the stain off their wood logs or other other things, well, what did we see? There's there is some residual that you gotta lay down. So you guys are you're laying, you're in kind of in the same manner, but if you're not cleaning that stuff up, some of those, some of those toxins and things can persist in a home after you leave. And and and uh so fume extraction and and things seem to be important, but standards getting so getting a criteria dialed in, and I think that's just a lot of uh testing, lab work and and whatnot. But I would agree. So we also um we had um primarily, I think our focus here is on dialing those woods in for you and those different uh finishes.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

The coating on the um the fiberglass coating, does that simulate a hole with the black the sample you have right now does not, but we'll get you infused panels that will simulate a hull. And the foam core is thermal reactive. So you know, monitoring those temperatures will be important because those are uh in in our production method, those are infused and and big infused parts. And so um we've drawn epoxy or or vinyl ester all through that part and then uh not left any air voids in there. But air voids obviously would explode under heat, um, like welding you can't have um because that air will expand quickly, so you know that'll make a mess. Absolutely. So the infused parts are probably better that way, but there is a specific thermal range where you can compromise the adhesion between that foam core and the laminate structure on either side of it.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Well, foam by its nature has is it a closed cell foam?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

It's a closed cell foam. Right. Yeah, Eric's is the product. So there's that um to consider, uh, absolutely. And I think you know, figuring out I think the broad application that is a little bit not quite as precise, um, and I think you would love to go to the precise because of the way your mind works. Yeah. Um you want to figure focus on that. Um in a shipyard application, you know, every shipyard in the world does uh a huge part of the business is is bottom repair, uh, whether that's annual bottom paint. Um and so, you know, a shortcut to work around sandblasting is actually an area where I think it it could be really beneficial if we can figure that out. Um The larger hole or weld prep and Yeah, where we're going in right now. We'll get someone who who doesn't want to spend the money it takes to they have years of bottom paint because they in their mind they think they need to put another coat on every year. And then formulations change as regulations change, and this one might not be or maybe a yard per doesn't break the surface and structure with sandpaper or or a blue pad prior to applying, and so now that you might have three coats of paint, and all of a sudden the weight of that paint is causing it to fall off. So you've got it looks like sunburn on the bottom of the boat. And the mitigation for that has been to has been to sandblast. Well, it's expensive. And if we had a way to go to a client, and sometimes they'll say, Well, just have your guys feather those areas that are really bad and then paint and I'll deal with it next year. And then the next year they'll come back and say, Well, that place they feathered, the paint's falling off. And we say, Well, remember, yeah, you know, we can't stick to that substrate. So if we could come up with a way more, because you reach a point where it the hours I if I have five guys under a under a boat and they were all running DAs, that's five hours every hour they're under there of labor rate. Um, it's not very and that's where we go, well, look, if we have guys feather all these, it's gonna be a big number. If we sandblast it, it's gonna be this number and not more. Right. We know what it'll be. And if we could take a laser and we could speed that process up, yeah, there's a huge direct cost benefit in that.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Have you uh one of the things that we're seeing is one else I would tell you that you know, lasers are gaining on speed of production, right? And what we're seeing is some larger companies using them uh as fan, really they have some phenomenal properties and work well uh supplementary uh with other other other methods. Have you ever heard of induction coating removal? It's it's a type of coating removal where they impart um uh heat. So they they put a paddle on the boat, like thicker coatings, it works just great on. And there's a company called NREx, and they'll you'll run it down the side of a boat. Now you do have to pay attention, it's not gonna work for you know the fiberglass, but it's for mild, you know, for steel substrates in that respect. And it heats from behind, so it disponds. You got to see it. I'll show I'll send you some info on it. Uh, there's some abatement contractors nationally and that are really doing this effectively and working with AMP. They've they've worked working with AMP. One of them is Best Tech out of uh down south, doing wonderful work in in abatement, right? But out on bridges, and you and and you watch this, you'll watch this coating delaminate. And then they come back through with the lasers and they're cleaning all that residual substrate, and um uh or they might be doing that where they're doing a chemical stripping, sure, and in that respect. But the other thing is that let's say guys are grinding, or there's an already a sandblasted substrate underneath, and they're going and and the gray, they're grinding or doing some blasting on the side of it, and coming through and sweeping with the lasers, you're getting there's no residual left in that in that steel. It is clean and the chlorides are gone, and they're test they're getting great uh grease, oils, contaminants, so coming back through, and they're not disrupting uh the uh the etching uh or the surface profile. Now, a lot of people believe that lasers don't etch, right? So I'm gonna show you some. We're actively etching, and you saw like stainless aluminum uh steel, but what does that mean, and how do you match that to an amp, you know, standard? So we started with um uh coating inspection and had some of the bigger uh coatings folks come down and look at it. And you know, they're they're liking what they're seeing, but now it's got to go to the lab to understand, you know, the peak development, the density mill scale can be a very difficult challenge. And then how fast, how fast are you gonna etch? So we're looking at some big water tank jobs, and they go through and they weld the new seams, and somebody's got to go down into those and and and prep all the seams, and then they'll come back and put the coatings in. And so we're gonna go out and do a big test there with our air, our air-cooled systems. These little things are powerful machines. So to get them in a boat, that's the other, that's the other half, is something that's very, very um, very uh, well, one of the things that we're deeply invested in in working on. So we're we're deep in the lab, the lab space there. But uh where do you see where do you see the future? I was looking at your website, it is great. Everybody should check out your website, your Instagrams, and because you got the mix of video and pictures and showing what you're doing there. Um, but it also had some history and it showed the old wooden boats and the uh what was the Nordland family, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah, or Norm Nordland left Martinac uh after the war when they laid everybody off, and their warehouser had a tremendous amount of marine ply available at a discounted rate. And that was kind of the catalyst for uh boat and shipbuilding in the Pacific Northwest was the availability of skilled labor and the availability of affordable materials. And so uh Norm started his first company, uh, was Soundcraft, uh, and they were building a wooden runabout. And then that morphed into morphed into Norbland Boat Company, yeah, that he started with his wife Phyllis.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Where then where do you so then it goes to fiberglass, and now it's cute.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

What do you what are you seeing in the future of then it went to glass over plywood, um which was uh period, and and it was better than just wood in some ways. Yeah, uh it posed some challenges in other ways. Uh epoxies evolved, uh foam became a more stable core material than wood in many ways, um, and not as subject to rot when it was moist or wet. Um and then the introduction of infusion, like we talked about, to get uh one guy hand laying, you'd find far more resin and sloppier work by the end of the day than you had in the morning. Yeah. Because he was tired. He's been dragging, trying to squeege out resin all day long, and by the end of the day, he's his work's not as good as it was in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Um, so vacuum bagging and then infusion, uh, which Paul and Gary were really early implementers in the in the marine industry for infusing parts. And by parts I mean entire hulls. Um, you know, we infused the 115-foot hull for Cazador. Um the entire hull took us months to lay it up dry. Yeah. We infused it in about six and a half hours. Uh that's with huge heated drums of resident catalysts.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

These things are still custom. Yep. Every stitch of them, because your clients demand they they're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

We all yeah, we we've chosen for better or worse to to focus on what we do best, which is custom. Yeah. And whether that's refit or or new construction. Do you see any trends in the in in boat construction that interest you coming down the coming down the the industry is is currently really focused on uh efficient drive systems. Um we're having to go to higher and higher EPA tier for diesel, which is the standard, but uh hybrid uh drive systems, and uh we're working on uh some prototype pure electric uh for commercial use. Wow. Um the infrastructure for charging, that's all of uh basically a wide open frontier. You can plug your Tesla in or your or your Rivian all over the place. Yeah. That doesn't exist maritime, and there's challenges putting those charging stations available to the public. And most people can't park in front of their house like they can with their car and then plug it into their supercharger. So there's a tremendous amount of and growth potential there. Um and so you know, materials continue to develop, people's taste continues to develop.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Um, architectural glass has been a huge design component in very large mega yachts, super yachts. Um where what is our so architectural glass is it's structural, so actually the glass will will be stronger than the aluminum or steel or fiberglass that it's installed in. It's actually the glass is stronger, and it didn't exist in a financially feasible way even 20 years ago. And now if you look at current boats, some of them look like they're made of glass. Yeah, um, they've they've come that far. And that's yeah, that's changing that whole experience on the water where you're inside out um feeling all the time. So, you know, integrating windows into hull sides, things like that, um, where even 10 years ago people were going, I don't know if I want glass in the side of my boat. And now they almost demand it.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

I yeah, what you're doing is is incredible and it'll be exciting. And to your point, um, you know, I was down in you, I was down in Utah at a conference, and we were talking about lasers, big oil and gas group and stuff, and I'm talking to a PhD in robotics and AI for robotics. It was it was incredible, you know what what what's gonna happen, but I just don't see it in its people, right? It's it's uh you've you've got to keep that going and and keep training the you know the next you're probably doing that in-house, I would imagine, a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

We're trying, we're trying to mentorship is a big part of our uh of our our goal. We have tremendous, we have uh guys who've been with the company for 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Uh they've seen the whole evolution and they're still high in their game, but we have the younger um trades that we're trying to pull in, and and we have the ability to mentor them in internally.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Um in our region, you know, Tacoma is really um pushed to put in a marine trade school, and and that will be training the next generation, hopefully. Um, even though Washington State in general has a pretty good core program where they they have the ability for people to pursue these trades still. You'd yeah, I know that when I was growing up, you know, everybody had auto shop, everybody did metal shop, and everybody did wood shop. I know that that isn't necessarily the case any longer. Yeah. But uh I think seeing programs being implemented uh in middle school and high school and and then college that have the opportunity for people who are interested in that. Um I've joked with my daughters before that you know, as they consider careers, they might be better off to be a plumber that needs a lawyer than a lawyer that needs a plumber. I know. Um I know because if you ever need to call a plumber, yeah, you're gonna pay for it and they'll get to you when they get to you. But you know, you can get an attorney at your house tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah. I well, you you saw our our uh classrooms out, you know, I think that's very exciting. Yeah, and uh to to have people from companies or entry in the workforce, I've spent a lot of time in the US on uh trade uh workforce development. And but I was, you know, I had electricians and or um HVAC, and this is a new trade. Yeah, I think you can see it. Uh we we don't have standard criteria for it yet, uh, and we want to be able to bring the trades here, understand safety, quality across uh operation of the lasers. We have any kind of laser almost that you want, you know, what a Gaussian or a top, you know, hat beam, this millage, you know, where they can get hands-on and uh and also understand the principles of what is really material science or material you know interaction and getting results. And and uh that's gonna be, I think, the most exciting part of my career as I drift on through it. And and it doesn't feel like work, in other words, it's it'll be exciting. But yeah, but I'll tell you, Jason, you are doing some fantastic things out there. I laid my eyes, it's real. And uh it's it is really um, I wish everybody would have the chance to go down and see what's going on there and see what's happening in in your in your facility. And it's been a real pleasure having you uh talk to me. I hope we can continue to do things here together and diving in the lab for you. You know, yeah, it'll be fun to figure out how we might be able to implement more of this.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

So well, great. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Appreciate it. All right.