Tre Azam Interview 2026

Tre Azam reached the interview phase of the Apprentice back in 2007! Now in 2026 Tre looks back at his time on the show and also tells us what he is up to today in the business world

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to the podcast, Trey Azam. How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Good, thank you. And you?

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Yeah, pretty good. So you reached the interview stages of The Apprentice back in 2007. How much did you enjoy the process?

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Man, it was a long time ago. Um I I I think I enjoyed all the other stuff a lot more than I did the interviews. I think it was quite it was it was designed to be arduous and tedious. So I I think they achieved that. And then um it wasn't the most fun, but it also wasn't quite as bad as I think it appears as well.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Yeah, I mean it it must be um very different being on the show and what you see on the TV show, what gets edited, I imagine.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Um if if you think that at the end of the day you're you're talking about literally sometimes hundreds of hours or you know tens of hours being compressed into kind of a 40-minute episode, and and it has to fit a narrative as well, doesn't it? So I I think one of the most interesting things about the interview stages is the genius of the edit, in that you will see a question posed and assume that everybody is answering that question when they're showing responses because that's a setup, isn't it? However, what was fascinating was like when we would come back and talk amongst each other is how different the questions were that you're given. Um, and and and some are like really bizarre. Like I I was asked how many years he'd been married and how many grandchildren he had.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, yeah, that is a bit left field.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, yeah, you you don't prepare for that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yeah, uh, we're gonna talk about all the different stages that you went through, but um, what do you think was your favourite task in the process?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Oh I think probably the the zoo, London Zoo, just because it was such a good kind of fun task you're selling to children and families, and and you're in a beautiful setting, and it's it's kind of a warm day. I think in terms of enjoyment, that was definitely the most fun. Um because it was it was all all in a day, and and it was all about kind of the prep and and then it all came down to kind of how well you performed, and and I think it was just a really fun task to be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah, it was a good one. So in the first episode, you were selling coffee in a mobile van, you and Simon formed a good partnership. What are your memories of that task?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

It was fun. I mean, it was it was the start, wasn't it? So it was about everyone kind of proving themselves and and being able to jump in from the start, and it was a good way to get an understanding of who everybody else was. You know, I think a lot of people think it's about the task, it's as much about the task as it's about the the other competitors. So it's a really good way, and that kind of rush, hurry, how people perform under pressure, how people can switch when they need to, what people's management styles are like. Um, and it's a good way to understand who you get along with. And yeah, that's when Simon and I kind of formed quite a good bond because we work together, and even though we come from like bizarrely different backgrounds, we actually had quite a lot in common as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Yeah, you seem to be quite good friends on the show, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, we did become good friends. I mean, we kind of looked out for each other a little bit, and I think when you're in an environment like that, you you also do want to create a certain set of alliances as well. And I think for him, it was as much as for me it was more kind of being able to have people that you can rely on, um, at least in the early on stages. At the end stages, everybody knows that it's a competition and you can't expect the other the other competitor not to fight with everything they've got.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, and as you say, you're you're kind of you're thrown into it, aren't you? When you join the apprentice, you don't know anybody there, and it must be hard to understand the different personalities and and get it. You don't get it in the first week, do you?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

No, because you really want to see how people perform. It's not about their characters or their personalities that really matters, it's about how am I going to outperform them at what they do best, or what can I use against them in terms of strengths or weaknesses to take an advantage over them in the form of the competition. But at the same time, when you're in the house, you are very much friendly and friends, and everybody gets along, and there's no point in kind of maintaining that competition at that point. Um, I I think you have to take it for what it is, but at the same time, I think the people who struggle the most are the ones who took it most seriously. Um, I think if you're going to compromise who you are in there and try and play a role, it's really hard to play a consistent role for seven weeks. So, you know, eventually who you are will come out, so you're better off starting with who you are.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, that's far too long to act a different persona, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Correct. Uh especially when you're together 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah. And in the second task, you designed a dog accessory, something I bet you never would have done if you didn't join the process.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

But it is it's fun, it's like anything that I I absolutely love any form of creative design, product design, anything. It's it's problem solving, isn't it? So at the end of the day, one of the things about those tasks is you can't be somebody you're better off as a jack-of-all trade than you are a specialist because the requirements are so diverse that you need to kind of be a little bit good at everything. So for me, the product design stuff, it it didn't matter what I was doing or designing. Um for me, it was just part of the process and having fun with it, but also remembering I'm in a competition and I don't like to lose, and nobody does really. So it's about you know, it doesn't matter what we do, we just need to win the task and move on.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah, and was this the um this was the sort of like uh Rambo thing, wasn't it? Was that your team?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Hooch pouch.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Hooch pouch, yeah. Um did Rory design this? Was this his uh brainchild?

SPEAKER_01 5:52

It was Rory's brain child, and then we kind of added all the mad tactical elements to turn it into even more of a Rambo's vest. And and I think we knew what it was, but at the same time, you know, in the time that you have, given the brief, uh, it seemed like alright, if that's what he wants to do, that's what we're gonna do. You might not get along, but at the same time, you you still want the team to win, so sabotage doesn't make sense, and neither does wanting to lose. Um, you might not like somebody, but they can come in handy, or they might be useful further on down the line if they're in your team.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, and um you didn't really get on that well with Rory, did you?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

I'd say I didn't because we got off on the wrong foot from I think it was the first night where we had like the drinks reception and everybody got together, and at that time I think he said some things that just kind of put me off. And to be really honest, when I watched it back, I wasn't happy with how I treated him either. Um, so I think when uh after the apprentice, I was invited to the BAFTAs and I was told I could bring any other apprentice with me, so I actually chose Rory because I thought it was a good opportunity to kind of apologize for you know, because he went so early, there was no chance to really remind him that this was competition, it wasn't real life, and that nothing was meant in that way. But when you watch the edits and it's compressed in that way, it looks like you're kind of bullying a person. He's been through a lot in his life as well. So after that, I felt like trying to it was better to make amends and than it was to kind of let that beef go on.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

It was a nice way to bury the hatchet, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, and to be really honest, he's a nice guy. Um, he was in that difficult environment too, and we're all strong characters, and when you're surrounded by strong characters who are trying to outdo each other, you very quickly recognize um you know your own deficiencies and ranks, and if you hold on to those, then you're in doo-doo doo. Um and he kind of did that to himself. But I think he was wise enough to reflect upon it um and and actually come back a stronger and better man.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

But it's very real as well, isn't it? Because that's like real life, isn't it? Personalities, you do clash and you don't get on with everybody.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

And you have to learn to deal with people, but also in in real life, you're not really trying to outdo people or prove you're better than them a lot more time. Life is collaboration rather than competition. Um, if you see it as competition, then I think it becomes a lot more difficult a lot of the time. But when you're in a competition, then you should also recognize I am in a competition, and this is very short-lived, and at the end of the day, you just want to get the best out of it that you can. Um, and for me, it's actually it was a fun experience. It was a real laugh. Like I had so much fun in that place. Because I for me, it was like the rules are there for everyone else, and at that time, the way that I was when I was a lot younger, it was like, well, let's just see how far you can push. Um, so it just became a little bit of fun, but it wasn't mean in the sense that I got along with everyone in the house, I got along with all the different chaperones and stuff, but I also had the luxury of kind of claiming my own bedroom, taking a whole room for myself, always hiding the remote before we left in the morning. So when we came back, it was whoever finds the remote gets to choose what we watch. So silly little things like that, and you know, not jumping out of bed when the cameras are rolling just to see how far the camera team will go before they leave the room. So silly things, but stuff that made it fun.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, I mean it must have been an amazing experience, but also very different, isn't it? Because you're as I say, and as you say, you're just thrown into it, and then you have to live with these people as well, and you've never met them.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I I think the harder part is the fact that it's so heavily produced, and and your emotions are curated, the kind of food that you're fed like, you know, you're fed like constantly crisps and chocolates throughout the day and fizzy drinks. So you're going through these bizarre highs and lows, and they'd play silly games like you know, you'd come home after like 19 hours, and they say, Oh, we haven't got a budget for dinner, so you have to cook your own, and then they'd order pizzas for the for the screw and little silly things like that, and then you know, like the the the lack of sleep. So it obviously they have to create an environment, they have to create reactions, and they know that we all have to be in a kind of a heightened state to do that. Um, but we also realize that look, everything is on a schedule where they spent a lot of money in advertising you, so they're not gonna kick you out if you kind of push the boundaries, and you know, so we we kind of got together and made them give us alarm clocks. That was one of the things that we all did as candidates. We said, look, this is taking the mic, you can't always turn up with a camera, it's not nice. So at least give us some time to prep. And eventually they gave us alarm clocks because we said we wouldn't get out of bed otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, because I do think back then it was even more brutal than it is now, um, in terms of the show and the boardroom and everything else, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah, because they were still learning the process. We were only season three, weren't we? So they were still working out, you know, how to shorten the bed uh boardroom from like sometimes we'd be in the boardroom for like four, five, six hours. Um, and it was really hard because that there's a lot and obviously it's production, so there's a tremendous amount of waiting time. Um so you know, there are there and you don't really get a day off. So it's like you know, one task after another, and the days that they say are like not task days, they are like interview days and catch-up days. So you're always doing something. But again, it it was uh a lot of fun to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, and um in the third task, you were project manager and you led your team to victory. Uh, you were given 200 pounds, um, which was to set up a service of your choosing. I think you went for gardening in the day, and then you went for a pub singing service in the evening. That sounded fun.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

That was that was more K E um not myself. Uh my evening work was supposed to be driveway brooming. Um, we were supposed to be doing hedges and and gardening in the daytime, and we were supposed to be doing uh driveways in the evening.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Oh yes, now I remember because they wanted to do something else, didn't they?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

They wanted to do something else, so they went and did their own thing, and and yeah, we kind of supported it at the end. But that was a really hard day. But again, it's it's it was a hands-on toss, so the day went fast, and it again it was like there is a core objective which is just make as much money as you can. It's not about impressing, it's not about being complicated, you don't need to come up with something clever, you just need to do a basic service and make basic money, and that's how we won. So I again, like I said, it you know, people try and overcomplicate it, and even I did at the start. And once I realized that look, there's so much of it is production, and so little of it is actual business acumen. Um, take away all the pressure and and do your thing, but recognize that they don't need it to be precise, they need it to be production ready.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, and of course that was back in the days when cash was king as well, because every task you were given cash wouldn't they pretty much task like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yellow pages and cash, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, those but those really thick yellow pages, I mean brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

It was dark. At that time you still did have the internet, you had computers, you had Google, but it was like the concept they told us or they convinced us was that look, you have to do it the way Alan Sugar would have done it in his time. Um so theoretically they should have kept the yellow pages until now.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, but you the yellow pages are like that now.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Someone like a magazine.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, it's tiny, in it. And in the fourth task, uh you created your own sweets and you sold them at London Zoo. You've spoken about that. Um did you make the sweets yourself, or was you just part of the selling team? I'm trying to remember now.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Oh, you remember. I got told off because I was playing pool. I sent them, I I sent them to the kitchen, and I and uh I said me and Christina would go back and strategize on the packaging, and then she went straight into exercise and resting, and I went straight into the pool room and started playing pool. But then obviously we were strategizing, weren't we?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah. And um your team won, didn't they? Am I correct?

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Because the other team they made a complete.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

I think that was the London Zoo task, wasn't it? Because we had to make the pool to sell at London Zoo. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

You made the poor, didn't you, I think?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Uh we had the cheeky monkey chocolate bars.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Um, and then I think we had some other stuff. But yeah, our main thing was this kind of chocolate, the cheeky chocolate thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

But I seem to remember it more when teams mess up, actually. Um, because the other team they had an orange lolly and it complained it contained so many E120 numbers, and they said it was all it was all natural ingredients, and then they had to cross it off, which was really humorous, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, no, it was. And again, like the thing what you learn on The Apprentice is that there are so many details that you have to pay attention to on these tasks, and that will catch you out. So, again, like I was saying earlier, simplicity was key on everything, don't overcomplicate it. Ours was just pure chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah. And I think Simon originally wanted to um where was it set up near a toilet or something, and then you changed your mind where you were gonna set up. I don't know if you remember that, but um, it was a good choice to move.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, I I think we we ended up in a walkway so that everybody had to come past us in order to get to the next part of the zoo. So we were like in one of the key areas, whereas previously it was like if if people are coming with their kids to go to the toilet, they're not thinking about buying food or chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, I think that was a good decision, yeah. So in the fifth task, um it was an art task, and I seem to remember you weren't a fan of uh the modern art.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

It was it wasn't so much that it was uh uh look uh within my religion I have certain uh rules as well and what I can and cannot endorse, and I didn't want to compromise the artists or the task, so I asked for the artist's permission, uh, and I said, Look, if you're happy, I will curate a story around the rest of it based on what you've told me without having to have that element in it, which makes me uncomfortable. And if it's not even makes me uncomfortable, it's just I don't want to do it, and if I don't want to do it, I'm not gonna do it. So um, luckily on that task, I think Christina was project manager, and by that time she had spent like a good few weeks with me, we got along well and she knew how I worked. So she essentially said to me, Look, the basement is yours, you can set it up how you want, you control it, you sell down there, we sell the horse pictures upstairs. Um, and yeah, I think we outside I outsold everyone.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah, it's very hard because if you're not into art, um it's very hard to talk about art, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Well, I have an appreciation for art, I always have, um, whether it's uh music or or sculptures or architecture or design. Uh I think my ADHD plays a part of that as well. Um but but if you if you understand the artist's intention, and to be really honest, the rest of it was you know beautiful. Um it was bizarre, but beautiful. Um so it was easy to kind of curate it and and be able to sell it in that way. It's it's like anything, isn't it? You have to understand it and you have to want to sell it. That's why I didn't want to sell the horse pictures, because I thought they were too expensive, as beautiful as they were, they were a lot harder to sell than these, which were limited edition, and I think they were like 200 pounds each as opposed to like five grand a pot.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, they didn't sell many of the horse ones, did they, if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

I think it was one.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah. That's a big commitment, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah. I can't remember. I think I sold all ten of the the earthy fish ones, sea and ocean. It was a nice story. I just felt like the other thing was just provocate provocative and it might help her as an artist, but it just wasn't necessary. And and I don't think you need to compromise on your uh principles.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Fair enough. And in the sixth task, uh you sold British produce at a French market. Certainly not an easy task uh to sell it to the French. You were selling smoked fish and marmalade. Yeah. It was the other team which failed spectacularly trying to cook sausages um for a can and a candle. Yeah, that was hilarious again. That was so funny.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

It was so stupid as well, because there were so many restaurants, and and eventually he realized he could just run to a restaurant and ask them to cook a few up for him, um, and then he would have samples at least.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Um didn't they also try and sell um pork uh during Grimadad or something?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, but I mean to be honest, it was a it wasn't a Muslim market, it was a farmer's market, so it was more the fact that they were unaware of the faith of people. It makes good TV, but it was very funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

I mean it wasn't on purpose, was it, as you say?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

It was um they actually walked, no, it wasn't market. Uh it's funny, I just remember they walked into a halal butcher's. That's it, yeah. Yeah, they literally walked into a halal butcher's. He was fasting, wasn't he? Yeah, it was, yeah. I was yeah, it was Ramadan for the first four weeks of the show filming.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

So funny. But what was that trip like going to France? It looked like quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

It was just nice to get away from the house. Um, you know, it was really tiring because it was very, very quick, kind of what in and out the same day, and you had to get in, set the whole market up. You didn't stay over. You then in the evening you were back on the ferry and back home at like 2-3 in the morning. But it was, it was a it was a lot of fun because it was one, it was different. Again, it was a fun selling task, and I really enjoyed selling the marmalade because it was really good marmalade as well, and we had good cheese. Uh, we I think we were the only ones trying to sell cheddar. Who was it that was trying to sell cheddar to the I can't remember if it was our team or the other team now. Trying to sell cheddar.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I think it was the other team. I mean, that was as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Well, what did we have? We had the marmalade and I can't remember what the other one.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Smoked fish.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

There we go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

You did really well on this task, actually. The other team were awful. Um, but yeah, on the other team he got like this huge block of cheese, and it was like from a Costco or something, and it was it was the most stupidest thing you could try and sell English cheddar to the French. It was never gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Especially when it's presented that way as well. You know, you can sometimes get away with good presentation, but there's I think theirs just came across as haphazard, whereas we had we had good products, and then um we also managed to sell quite a bit to the shops as well. So I think we sold out by the end of the day, if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

In the seventh task, Sir Alan gave you a list of items to find. As a viewer, this is one of my favourite tasks, particularly when it's in London. What do you remember most about this? This must have been a long night.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Nigella seeds. That's the one I remember the most. Because we knew what everything else was, we couldn't figure out what freaking Nigella seeds were. Um and then I ended up calling an Indian like store who ended up telling us that what they were, and then we knew what we had to get. But that one was fun. Um That one was the one where you had to have the kind of yellow pages the the most. That was the one where you needed to do your prep in advance. Um that one and the selling task, the other selling task, they're the two that require you to have kind of done your your work beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, I mean. You mentioned Google. I mean, like there's a couple those tasks wouldn't work, would they? That task in particular, because you don't know what the items are.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

No, and yeah, that's right. So that part of the challenge is working out what they are, and then the part of the challenge is sourcing them in London, where you know, at that time you don't have these stores that sell everything as much. So you had to find specialist stores. So you'd look for a mountaineering shop and a specialist music shop to find a mini guitar, and then you'd have to find something silly, like it has to be ancient, it has to be this, it has to be auto, you have to go into thrift shops. But with that one, you have to call in advance, definitely, otherwise, you're just wasting half your day driving around London.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

And in the eighth task, you had to design a trainer, and I can still remember Simon's reclaim the street voiceover.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

That was one of my that was a really fun task to do because the majority of the time was spent. with design agencies and in the studio. Um and um it it was just a fun one. I remember I think Judine was the project manager on that one. Um and yeah we we won that one quite well uh especially I think it was part of it was the fact that we had the the whole promotion of 10% stuff going back into charity. That gave me a good argument to kind of because they the team argued with me and said they wanted 10% of sales value and I said no 10% of profit. They went against me and they got kind of a bit of a rollicking for that in the boardroom. But that one was just a lot of fun. It was like we spent half the day at the studio the other half filming and then kind of putting it all together in the editing suite um so yeah that was I I say that one was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

At least you had a message a single message whereas the other team they were trying two different things at once and it didn't really work for them.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah and the design was a bit naff as well I think um yeah it uh that one was to be honest it could have gone either way because ours was a little bit like when you look it back at it now you like cringe so like yeah it might have climbers dancing yeah that's yeah it might have and my beatboxing yeah it's it could have been cringe at that time and uh now it now it's cringe but at the time it was still alright you get away with it in the early 2000s. And in the ninth task you had to sell products from one nation abroad do you remember the products you had to sell uh it was uh I think some kind of air purifier or something and then we had um the little microwaveable um like hot water bottle type things but dry one did the fillings they were really nice I still got one I bought one back for my son um but with that one it was um it was really tough we lost that one I think because we couldn't sell the the higher value item but apparently we were selling in the wrong place so we we didn't know who to sell to to be really honest and I think with that task was when Jadeen had had an issue and she wasn't she was away so she had refused to work the night before so she was tasked with the we were out and she was and the other person were tasked with effectively booking appointments calling people up and trying to essentially figure out who we should be going to but then we got home and she'd been through like a personal thing uh like a personal crisis thing so um she she hadn't done anything so we went out there the next morning completely blind um we we'd done relatively well but then the other team apparently got a uh big order from some shoe brand where they were sitting outside their doorstep and it was some serendipitous moment. But yeah uh that one was was tough because it was the first one I'd lost since task two I'd won straight seven and then that one we lost by not a huge margin but I think about a thousand pounds based on their order value. Yeah I remember the air purifiers if you touched them you got like a little shock didn't you yeah stupid electrocute yeah I remember they're the ones who electrocute you that's right and we were so dumb we were trying to sell them in um like a wood green in a flipping shopping centre. So eventually we went to Tottenham Court Road and I think we sold a few um but yeah not many and actually the only reason we sold a few and I can tell you this now is um the shop we sold it to was a friend of mine. So when I walked into the shop in Tottenham Court Road uh I told him in my own language um just place an order for some uh you won't actually have to pay for them so he actually placed an order for it and I got told off for speaking uh for not for speaking to somebody in a different language and they're like what did you say and I was just asking him about his family. But no I was basically telling him to shut up and place an order because otherwise we won't sell anything. So he he placed an order based on that.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Clever.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Just lucky for me you were working that day.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah. And in the 10th task you were selling on a shopping channel this always looks hard because you have someone in your ear while you're trying to sell on live TV what was it like that was really hard.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Especially since our products were like a flipping um hair removal tool a wheelchair and if I remember correctly a decoupage or something along those lines so uh yeah I remember having you know what I'll tell you what about that task the only thing I remember about that task and the only thing I should say about that task is Naomi was not given the credit that was due. Either I or Simon should have gone on that task not her because she she was absolutely brilliant in terms of the selling in terms of when she was on the radio Simon was a nightmare on the radio I probably was a nightmare on the radio I felt like the wrong person absolutely that night got fired. You see a lot more now where you like that person shouldn't have gone but in that one the thing that I think was a bit annoying to me and for Naomi was that she was made to look incompetent to justify the firing whereas she 100% outperformed both of us. I think they said they would have hired her the channel so she didn't she was genuinely very very good she was brilliant in front of camera she was brilliant behind the camera she was brilliant on the radio where we'd made silly product selection she was still able to sell quite a lot um she outsold both me and Simon I don't think me and Simon sold anything if I'm completely honest on that task but they made it look like we were far more competent at it than we were um we were not I think we won though I can't remember yeah I think you didn't we lost yeah she went yeah in AM we went that's right yeah and in the final um you helped Saleman become Sir Alan's apprentice as we spoke about you were quite good friends when you were on the show I imagine you were very happy for him yeah because I think for me the whole thing was about the experience not the outcome I'd never watched the show when I applied to it I didn't know anything about it. I wasn't particularly interested in any kind of a job but I was more in it for I guess uh a way to kind of see where you stand with it. So apply see if you get through and if you get through and that's why like I think part of the reason I was selected was because I was absolutely audacious throughout the entire experience from the the big interview stages where I walked in and pretended I'd been waiting hours and they ended up pushing me through and then you know when the group challenges came to for me it was like a really good opportunity to just like batter the competition I I enjoyed every part of it and and the psychological tests and then you know I wasn't actually selected as a candidate. I was originally selected as standby so I recorded somebody dropped out well no so I got a call to say that look you haven't made the the first 16 but your first standby uh I turned around to them and said then take me off the standby list I'm I I don't want to be on standby so they're like no we want you on standby and I said I don't want to be on standby I'm either in or I'm out they called me back an hour later and said you know what you're in so some someone else ended up being put on standby because I think at the time they felt like I had the TV value to them above and beyond the other people maybe not the same. And they were they were straight honest to me as well they said when we when we bought you in we we actually didn't think you would be competent in the way that you turned out to be um and we thought you would have gone a hell of a lot sooner but because I didn't lose a task for seven weeks it was hard to find me. Yeah and can you tell us what you do today yeah I uh I build brain monitoring technology uh EEG so my company Mindplay uh we manufacture our own EEG brain monitoring headsets but we also create bespoke applications um and experiences for brands and agencies all over the world so like mind controlled uh robots mind controlled lightsabers um being able to measure kids' brains while they play games we've done mind control blanket for British airways uh shopping with your brain for eBay um yeah so so loads of really fun stuff like measuring the pleasure of chocolate so we've essentially we've got a technology platform that allows um one a brain to be monitored and measured tracked and then we have algorithms for different emotional states um and then um we also then provide experiences and custom bespoke stuff around that technology as well so like uh ways of so we we actually started with the mind control video platform so we as a I I wanted to find a way to kind of make video react to emotion so we made like a platform where uh we had like a horror movie that gets scarier the more scared you get um we made a a video for the prison system where while you're watching it you're antagonized but if you get angry then your character in the movie gets into a fight and he loses so the only way you make it through the movie is like gamifying film but through the brain. So that's what I do at Mind Play and and we're now 16 years in. Is it kind of virtual reality then or no no it's it's literally so you wear a headband and that picks up the electrical activity in your brain. So EUG is like a medical device that picks up brain activity. And then based on the brain activity we're able to determine your levels of mental focus mental calm flow pleasure cognitive load mental effort um and then we can essentially control devices games and video based on that human response that's actually why I patented uh about 10 years ago it was mind control video.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Did did you get into this straight away after The Apprentice or did you do other things?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

No so I did the gamut I worked on radio for a while I had a show on LBC for about eight months I did stuff with uh TVs companies and then I did production for a while I did documentaries um we'd done some cartoon animation stuff and then uh I got into kind of mental health um and once I got into mental health I started looking at mental health technology that led me to EEG then I wanted to see if I could combine my my production passion with EEG so that's how the whole mind control video player kind of came about um and then after that it's kind of been God's blessing and it's just kind of picked up from there and we just offer a lot of different services around our brain tech. But yeah it's really fun to do something that no one else is doing put it that way. And was there anything on the show you would have changed all these years later yeah I would have watched my mouth watched my tongue a little bit better I think um made good TV but if I'm completely honest uh when I watched it it kind of made me reflect on uh how I do and do not wish to come across um regardless of how people reacted like some people find that kind of an appealing trait uh but I personally didn't find it an appealing trait so I kind of went out of my way to recognise that that's not the way I'd like to kind of be as a role model or as an individual.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

It must be very hard to watch yourself back as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I imagine you did when the show was on I couldn't initially but yeah it's it is it's it's it's it's nice to be able to kind of go back and reflect on it in a positive way rather than judging it because I was 26 at the time I'm 46 now. Yeah so 20 years you know 20 minutes in your life can change a lot 20 years you know if you if you haven't grown then what was the point?

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah. And did your experiences on The Apprentice help you in your working life?

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Yes and no I think sometimes you get like you know people who remember the show initially sometimes I'd call up a company or an agency or a brand I want to work with and it would turn out that somebody was a fan of The Apprentice on so I would get a a a door open to me that maybe I wouldn't have before but that that lasts for a very short while um after that you have to kind of rely on your own credibility and I also think that an experience like that should never be any form of defining factor in your life it should be just a another experience. It surely shouldn't be what you kind of base yourself around and and that's why very rarely will I talk about the apprentice um because I just feel like it's it's kind of old news in my life but at the same time I think for a lot of people to relive it and talk about it is quite exciting. So sometimes you look at it from the other's perspective. Yeah and it's great a lot of the episodes are on YouTube um of the older series so anybody it's an Apple TV so it's it's sometimes it's weird when you're abroad and somebody still recognizes you um but it it still happens here and there but a lot less now I think now now I look like Trey's dad well thanks a lot for joining us Trey it's been lovely to have you on the podcast thank you very much nice to meet you too mate take care