Ep4: From Cathedral Choir to World Stage - Playing the Long Game

You can feel the difference between a choir that’s technically fine and a choir that communicates every word. That’s the gap we explore with Jonathan Bligh, founder and artistic director of Festival Statesmen Chorus, as he shares the real work behind building a world-class choral sound.

We trace Jonathan’s path from boy chorister at St Peter’s Cathedral to scholarships, school ensemble formation, and life-changing training abroad. Along the way, we unpack what “culture first” actually looks like in a rehearsal room: who thrives, why willingness to learn matters, and how playing the long game makes a difference.

From barbershop to contemporary a cappella to sacred repertoire, Jonathan explains how FSC’s versatility presented both strengths and programming challenges, and why heart, contrast, and connection to text is worth the time and effort. We also make vocal pedagogy practical for choir leaders and singers by starting with safe fundamentals: basic voice science, alignment, efficiency, and choosing advice that fits the particularities of body and genre.

The interview concludes with FSC performing Frank Ticheli’s beautiful Earth Song. If this episode encouraged you or sparked an idea for your choir, subscribe, share this with a fellow singer, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

VOCAL PEDAGOGY LINKS

• Dr Dan Robinson (based in QLD) - www.youtube.com/@DrDanRobinson
• Estill Voice Training - Level 1 and 2 is good* https://estillvoice.com/find-a-course/ *Just spend some time on learning the physiology of the voice beforehand so that you're not overwhelmed. 
• Dr Sam Webster - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtqpyzS48zA&t=263s
• Historical perspectives of singing - Brenton Coffin and Stephen Austin -https://www.thepracticalpedagogue.com/about - they'll cover the heavy hitters Garcia and Lamperti.
• Modern Lens - Ingo Titze, Kenneth Bozeman, Scott McCoy
• Thomas Hemsley's singing and imagination. 
• Accent method is good for breathing (based in Australia)

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Speaker 0:14

Welcome back to Midlife Choirsis, community singing in all its glory. I'm Kerrie Polkinghorne and today we are talking with Jonathan Bligh, everybody. Jonathan Bligh is the founder and artistic director of the internationally award-winning male-voiced a cappella group, the Festival Statesmen Chorus. He is a conductor, vocal coach, ensemble singer and music educator. Jonathan holds a Master of Voice Pedagogy with Distinction from the Westminster Choir College in Princeton, USA. He has a Bachelor of Music from the Elder Conservatorium in Adelaide, a graduate diploma of education, and a licentiate of the Royal Schools of Music in London. Woo! Jonathan regularly coaches a cappella groups all over Australia and recently returned from South Korea as guest conductor for the Asia-Pacific APAC Youth Choral Festival in South Korea. Jonathan is also the founder and artistic director of the Voices of Adelaide Festival in partnership with the Elder Conservatorium and the Festival Statesmen. And in his free time, he's also the president of the Australian National Choral Association South Australian chapter. Really excited to hear about Jonathan's story and learn a bit about what makes him tick. And I hope you enjoy today's episode. Well, welcome to Jonathan Bligh. He is joining me in the studio. Good morning, Jono.

Jonathan 1:30

Hey Kerrie, how are you?

Speaker 1:31

I'm not sure if it's morning, but I'm going to say good morning.

Jonathan 1:33

It's morning somewhere.

Speaker 1:34

Yeah, it's morning somewhere. So it's so good to have you here. You're a bit of a name in these parts. I'm excited that you're here and in the studio and we get to have a chat and get to know you a little bit. So thank you for coming in.

From Cathedral Chorister To Conductor

Jonathan 1:46

My pleasure.

Speaker 1:46

Before we get cracking into all the details of things, we just want to get to know you a little bit and wondering if you can tell us a little bit about your journey, you know, how you came to music and choirs and choir directing.

Jonathan 1:58

Wow, yeah. Well, I'm sort of middle-aged now, so there's quite a lot of history there. But um, no, I started uh yeah, life out I was supported by my parents. Uh, dad was a sort of community choral singer based in Adelaide. His dad was a concert pianist and was one of the first uh to record with ABC in Sydney back in the day, which was quite cool. My mum was an opera singer, but also a nurse, but uh so that's where she got the money from.

Speaker 2:22

Wow.

Jonathan 2:22

B ut um, or her income at least. But um, yeah, she was lucky enough to perform in Europe and she did recordings. We've still got her cassette, you know, somewhere in the shed. Yeah, I wasn't really pushed into music, but I was given the opportunity. I also played tennis and rugby and stuff like that. So my parents just sort of let me do whatever, but they found that I had a reasonably good ear and so encouraged me to sing. I started at St. Peter's Cathedral in Adelaide as a boy chorister, and then my dad had connections to Exeter Cathedral in Devon in England, and I won a two-year scholarship there as a treble. So I learned how to sight read. I had to play two instruments, and it was all part of a big fancy cathedral tradition.

Speaker 3:02

What age were you when you came back to Adelaide?

Jonathan 3:04

Interestingly, I I actually went back to Sydney because I sort of graduated out of the school and then I was sort of feeling a bit homesick, missing the blue skies. And so I went to Sydney and sang in St Andrews Cathedral School, and I became a sort of head chorister there, and then my voice changed and came back to Adelaide and then sort of finished life in high school at Maryattville High School, specialist music school, which was

Building School Choir Culture For Boys

Jonathan 3:26

really cool. So then went to uni at Adelaide, did uh bachelor music in flute, flute performance.

Speaker 3:32

I did not know you were a flute player. I'm also a flute player. Oh we could do a duet.

Jonathan 3:37

Oh gosh, I I don't touch the thing now, but yeah. But I did conducting with Carl, and that was sort of - sorry, Carl Crossin, for those of you who don't know Carl. And I sort of got a bit of a bug for sort of the conducting side of things. And so Carl gave me a really great foundation in that space, sang in all his choirs, got introduced to the Adelaide Chamber singers through Carl, and then sort of did performance stuff freelance for a little bit, then went back to uni, did a graduate diploma in education, secondary school music teacher for six years at Charles Campbell.

Speaker 4:12

God, who would do that?

Jonathan 4:15

Well, yeah, and I look back and we had some good times, but um yeah.

Speaker 4:19

For those who don't know, I'm actually a music teacher in high school.

Jonathan 4:23

But you've stuck with it, unlike me. Yeah, so Charles Campbell was a great school at the time. It had a specialist performing arts program. So I sort of started moving in the space of of not just music and singing, but also in dance and drama. And so through that school, we were doing some pretty cool stuff, and that was where my work sort of really sort of zoned in in the a cappella space. So I launched a bunch of groups out of that school, including Festival Statesmen, which we'll probably talk about in a bit. But a group called the Fishbowl Boys, which went on Australia's Got Talent, got through to the finals or semi-finals or something, it was all very fancy. But yeah, we used to win sort of national competitions and stuff, which was really exciting. And for a you know, a government school not funded, it was really special.

Speaker 5:09

Yeah.

Jonathan 5:09

So yeah, my time sort of finished there. I went to Sydney briefly, back to Sydney and taught at the Scotch College. It was a very fancy school. I built a choral program there so they'd have their speech day in the opera house. And when I arrived, the choir was 13. Uh, by the time I'd left, it was 120.

Speaker 5:27

Gee.

Jonathan 5:27

So, and we'd rolled out, you know, singing across the whole curriculum and all the year levels, and just basically just getting people singing, especially guys, you know, because it's it's not cool, apparently.

Speaker 5:38

So I feel like once you've got guys, you've got everyone in the schools. If you've got the boys in, you've got everyone.

Jonathan 5:44

Yeah, yeah. That was sort of ready culturally, and I think that was key, and you would probably know this in schools. Like you can have great teachers, but if you don't have the support of the leadership, and then the parents and the and the kids aren't behind it, like it you kind of need everyone to pull together.

Speaker 5:57

Yeah. So after Sydney, what did you do after that?

Jonathan 6:00

That was the time of sort of my my dad passed away, so there was a few sort of hiccups along the road. But I sort of took that opportunity to sort of do a bit of a reset. And you know, so I actually moved to the States for a little bit and studied a Master of Voice Pedagogy at the Westminster Choir College in Princeton, New Jersey.

Speaker 6:17

As you do.

Jonathan 6:17

Um, as you do, and just needed a bit of a sea change, and you know, sort of you have a loss in your life, whatever you sort of start to question things, and I was like, you know, financially I'm able to, you know, in terms of the timing and where I'm at with my life, it was just sort of it made sense to give it a go at least.

Speaker 6:34

Wow. So what was that like? Tell us about that.

Jonathan 6:37

Absolutely life-changing, I have to say. They just do things.. there are some things in the States that do really, really well, and it's education, I think. You know, I'd been there a few times on and off with doing summer schools, and just culturally for me, it was a really good fit. And so, particularly at Westminster, they'd sort of had their historical perspectives, which I was really interested in, in terms of obviously the music, but also the voice ped stuff, and then really right at the front of the science as well. So, and obviously the science is evolving, but just in terms of physiology and all of the the the backing and the you know of of the historical context, I think was really important for me just to get a rounder understanding, and then just their approach to music and gesturally, you know, there are some great music makers, but just binding gesture to sound as a conductor is something that really resonated with me strongly, and so I was blessed enough to have an incredible teaching faculty: James Jordan, Jo Miller, and Amanda Quist, three of these incredible people, and all different. Like, you know, James is quite he publishes a lot and he's very sort of at the fr at the front of kind of new ideas of exploring music, whereas Jo is very much the sort of traditional he's the he's the structure and the method, like really structured, you know, a structured process you can follow. And then Amanda was kind of the the hybrid. So and I was fortunate enough to sing in her chamber choir, and it was just singing with all these like 20-year-olds, and it was just insane, like just yeah, it was so invigorating, and these kids just knocking it out of the park, you know. Um

Speaker 8:18

it's another world, I feel

Jonathan 8:20

and it was a bubble, it was the perfect timing. Like there's you know, I think the whole uni just had sort of 350 kids, like students. I was a mature age student at that point, but there were 13 singing teachers, and they're all international people, you know, who have had careers. And and again, you know, one of my supervisors, Kathy Price, is was right at the front of dealing with menopause in the female voice and all that sort of stuff, and the impact I had on their voice. So you look up Kathy Price, she's published all around the world, you know, and I she was one of my supervisors, you know, this person that's kicking goals, you know. So yeah, it completely changed my approach to music, to singing. You know, I think one of the reasons why I went was I just felt a bit like an imposter. Sort of I kind of landed in front of a group out of necessity because no one else would, and you know, and then I'm working with changing voices, younger voices, I'm working with aging voices, and I'm kind of just making it up just through you know, warm-ups you hear from people and you copy that. Well, that's fun, let's do that one. But I just felt like I was just making it up. You know, I was go I was obviously going with instinct and you know, my experience, but I just wanted that little bit more of that historical context and an understanding of the science, I guess, behind what I was doing.

Speaker 9:37

Wow, so how did that change you coming back to Adelaide?

Jonathan 9:42

Yeah, like I said, the my approach to music, my approach to gesture really changed, but I thought more importantly that I could start to make a little bit of a difference in my own little way with my education brain. I felt like I was able to come back and do a lot of coaching and and workshops and just share basically.

Festival Statesman Origins And Big Wins

Speaker 10:05

So you were still leading Festies at that time?

Jonathan 10:09

Yeah, so Festies was formed in 2009, and that sort of came out of that school, Charles Campbell I mentioned earlier. So the kids kind of graduated school, but didn't have anywhere to sing. So that was kind of how it started, out of just to fill that gap. So I think our youngest singer at the time was 11, and I was probably the oldest at 20 something. But so that was you know 16 years ago now, and we started in the barbershop space, a cappella stuff. We then pivoted to contemporary a cappella, and this is all before I left for America. And we ended up winning the national acapella competition twice in Australia, and then we won the national barbershop competition with the highest score in history in 2018.

Speaker 10:53

That's awesome.

Jonathan 10:54

Yeah, and that record still stands. Um, yeah. So we were supposed to represent Australia at the international comp in the States, but due to COVID, we had to stop. So that was kind of the point then that I was in America, and so then when I came back, I was like, well, what do we do next? We've done barbershop, we're done contemporary cappella. So I kind of pivoted into the more sort of I guess traditional choral space, but still kind of keeping in touch with our roots and the other genres. And I think in some ways that's probably Festies' or Festival Statesmen, their um their biggest strength and weakness at the same time because we kind of do everything, but like our audiences are sort of wait, is this a a cappella show with vo vocal percussion and dancing and choreography, or is it a you know a choral recital with the latest commission from someone, you know? And so it's taken us a little bit of time to kind of crystallise that and communicate that clearly to our audiences as well, which which show it's gonna be.

Speaker 11:49

Yes, because you're so versatile.

Jonathan 11:51

Yeah. So it's it's it's challenging programming-wise. Like I spend a lot of time trying to find repertoire. That's probably where I spend most of my time, just finding good charts that will that resonate with me, the singers, and the audience. So, yeah, coming back from the States, just a different approach went more deeply in sort of the traditional choral tradition, I guess, which kind of led us to the World Choir Games in New Zealand a couple of years ago, and we were fortunate enough to take out two world championship trophies.

Speaker 12:22

Yeah, wow.

Jonathan 12:22

And one of them was in the sacred music category, and then one was in the contemporary propeller category. Yeah, and apparently, I mean they just had another World Choir Games, where was it? Just recently, but we're still ranked ninth in the world, which is insane. And we yeah, it's just like, what? These little, you know, this small group of guys from Adelaide, you know, it's um it's pretty humbling.

Speaker 12:43

It's awesome. Have you found that the boys have changed their mentality at all, or are they the same?

Jonathan 12:49

As I said

Why Heart And Text Win Audiences

Jonathan 12:50

at the beginning, I think the main thing is culture. Now that we've seen what's out there in in the world to a degree, it's actually really humbling. Because I to this day I will tell you that we probably weren't the best choir on those stages. Like there were choirs that sang better than us, um, more technically, more vibrantly, more whatever. But what we did bring was heart and that contrasting of vocal style. So we were probably the only choir that when we sang our set of four pieces, that we sounded like four different choirs. So if you listen to the recording with your eyes closed, we sound like four different choirs. So no other choir that I heard through those two weeks did that. And I think that's probably what got us across the line.

Speaker 13:38

And that is really encouraging, I think, for any choir, because whether you're directing a professional choir, a semi-professional choir, a community choir, a school choir, any of those, those are attainable things to have to sort of try and present something that's completely contrasting.

Jonathan 13:55

Totally.

Speaker 13:56

And also to present something with heart. And I love that you've said that because there is so much talk about the technical sides of performing and the technical sides of singing, and they are important. But we don't talk as much, I feel, about presentation and connection to text. It makes a massive difference from the audience's perspective, how they receive that music.

Jonathan 14:19

Choral singing is one of the very few things in the world that you can have 80 people in a room, all with different belief systems, all with different skin colour, different language, whatever, and you can get behind a common, unifying message uh to then share with the community. I that's deeply powerful. Like it's profound.

Speaker 14:41

It is, yeah. And I I really love that the one thing choirs have different to other ensembles is text.

Jonathan 14:48

Exactly.

Speaker 14:49

And and using that text not just as a means by which we shape words, but actually connect to audiences and share a message or share a thought or paint a picture or whatever it might be. And I I love it when choirs really step up to that. And it's a really profound experience for the audience to to make a connection. Yeah, yeah. And that doesn't just happen. The Festival Statesmen group that you had when you came back from the States is a different group that it is now. What sort of things were you working on with those guys to develop that totally new sound?

Training An Ensemble The Long Game

Speaker 15:26 Jonathan 15:26

It's a big question to unpack. I think, you know, the main thing I would have to say is culture. So before we even get to the singing, I think culture is key. So as uh we have kind of two things I look for whether we look for when when singers come, and that's a willingness to learn and then adopt the chorus culture, whatever that means. All the singers have to be on the same page. And whilst you can put a product out there, we attract it's really tough. Like we we get a lot of people coming through the door who think, you know, would I be a good fit for this group? And some don't don't fit culturally, or they're on their journey, they're just not quite at the level they need to be at for the pace that we work at, you know. So we sort of encourage them to go get some singing intuition or go sing with another group, build up your skill sets and then revisit. So it's kind of setting that bar. The other thing I would say, in terms of developing the skills within the ensemble, is I've always played the long game. I like to try and do all of the things at once, but people don't learn that way. And I think if you're only seeing the group for three hours a week, if that, it's really hard to kind of put all the things on the table and expect the the singers to jump through all these hoops. So I sort of try to build in what I call like a voice crafting voice craft session each week, and I will sort of be strategic about okay, what are we working on over the next four weeks? So from weeks one to four, we're doing kind of topic A, and then from weeks two to five, we're working on topic B. But there's that consistency of message through the weeks, so it can be a little bit, I guess, frustrating because I'm like, oh, can we just do the thing? Come on, guys, do the thing.

Speaker 17:05

But you've got to bring them along with you.

Jonathan 17:07

Exactly. And it's just, yeah, don't try and do all of the things at once.

Speaker 17:12

Yeah, I can imagine that would be difficult to be patient at times.

Jonathan 17:16

Totally, but you know, I love seeing the the Eureka moments and the success, and then when they hear the sound, how it's like, oh my gosh, why weren't we doing this all the time?

Speaker 17:24

Yes.

Jonathan 17:24

You know, but then it's like making it technique, right? So you you you introduce the the concept and then we need to drill it until it becomes subconscious competence. Is it the one where you just do it subconsciously because it's in place? So yeah, 16 years.

Speaker 17:41

Wow.

Jonathan 17:42

Just chipping away at it.

Speaker 17:43

Yeah, the I'm curious when you say the guys that are open to learning or willing to learn. I'm sure when you have auditions that everybody says they're willing to learn. But what are the telltale signs with someone who isn't?

Jonathan 18:02

So I was just presenting at the National Choral Fest a couple of weeks ago, and I had a singer there from New Zealand who, lovely guy, we got along really well, and professional opera singer. And in my workshop, I was talking about okay, well, let's talk a little bit about the different ways we can use our voice. So, how would you speak to a small child versus to call out to someone stealing your car across the car park? Right. You know, I say this in a general sense, people are quite empathetic and they have quite flexible instruments. And, you know, how we would talk to a kitten versus someone stealing your car, you would have different use of your instrument. And so I sort of use those primal, what I what I use primal sound, which is Thomas Hemsley and also Michael Fulcher in Melbourne talks about primal sound, and and how that can then inform the instrument, right? But if you have a technique, and this guy was a phenomenal singer in the opera space, but when we were crafting different ways to use the instrument, it was kind of like trying to unlock the other parts of the voice that aren't just built on this this opera technique. Now, this guy, like phenomenal voice, but when we were trying to do these other exercises, it was kind of locked into this technique, and I think that's kind of my approach is it's not one size fits all, you know. So you can hear a jazz singer that's amplified, you know, versus an opera singer that has to fill a 3,000-seat theatre in in Europe, like they're they're two different techniques.

Speaker 19:35

Yeah.

Jonathan 19:36

And so these singers come into Festies, and I'm like, okay, we've got a shower singer here, we've got a music theatre singer here, we've got a karaoke, we've got an opera singer here. And then how how am I going to communicate this message that gets everyone kind of on the same track? Yeah. At least, you know, because how are we going to sing a barbershop version of Come Fly With Me versus a Russian, you know, piece by Chesnakov or something? They're two different vocal apparatuses.

Speaker 20:04

Wow. So what's next for Festies?

Voices Of Adelaide And What’s Next

Speaker 20:06

I'm keen to know.

Jonathan 20:06

Oh gosh, what is next? So currently this year, we are working with a group called Gisualdo Six who are coming over from the UK. And I, with the St. Peter's Cathedral Music Foundation with Ukaria, a beautiful Adelaide Hills venue, have kind of rolled out, I guess, kind of like a bit of an education week with Gisualdo Six. So St. Peter's Cathedral, which has a big choral tradition there, is involved everything from trebles through to their mixed sort of adult choir. And then also the graduate singers in Adelaide as well are on board with that. Plus, there's a few other little opportunities for even organ tuition and individual sessions and small group stuff. So that's happening in June. And then we're doing one of our big pillars is a project that we call Voices of Adelaide. And that started life out as pretty much just a school outreach program. But now it's just grown into this monster, which is awesome. And it has the backing of the Adelaide University and the Older Conservatorium, and we also have the support of Prince Alfred College this year for the school workshop, and also the Australian Natural Choral Association has put some money behind it as well. So basically..

Speaker 21:18

Everyone's getting on board.

Jonathan 21:19

Yeah, kind of the the pillar of it is the South Australian Honour Choir, which is kids that are apply to be involved. But we had 19 schools represented last year, and this year we're hoping to get 50 kids involved in this choir.

Speaker 21:36

Yeah, that's great. We've got a few from my choir coming.

Jonathan 21:38

Yeah, yeah, and they were there last year and they crushed it.

Speaker 21:40

Yeah, they loved it. So good.

Jonathan 21:42

And it's just we had one student from Urrbrae, which is an agricultural high school. We had one from another government school that doesn't have a music program. But these kids are just in isolation, they have no idea that there's this whole singing world out there. But you get one kid from here, one kid from here. And then you get the kids from like your school, specialist music school, so they're awesome, you know, so bring them in too. And then all of a sudden really cool things start to happen.

Speaker 22:08

And they get so inspired by the sound that can be made.

Jonathan 22:11

Totally.

Speaker 22:11

Which is amazing, especially like you say, it's just very different to places like the States. We don't have this sort of calibre at a high school level for them to be a part of something that is a high level is so inspiring for them.

Jonathan 22:25

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm blessed to have Carl Crossin and Christie Anderson. Carl directs the SATB on a choir. Christie does the SSAA, and I do the TTBarB . So it's a pretty cool powerhouse of pretty cool people to like, you know, to inspire these kids.

Speaker 22:41

Yeah, the trifecta. I love that. And I'm going to be in that concert too, because I'm singing with the Elder Conservatorium Chorale.

Jonathan 22:48

Ah, yes. So this is the other part of it, right? So we have the kids, and and this was kind of the big hook for the university because I said, you know, as well as working with these great leaders in the choral space, let's give, let's show them a pathway. So Festies is kind of the TT Bar B group that then comes in and does a set. Aurora from Young Adelaide Voices does the SSAA stuff, and they are incredible. And then so this year we've also brought in the Elder Conservatorium Chorale. So and they they're directed by Carl and they are phenomenal. So these kids are just going to get absolutely swamped with amazing music.

Speaker 23:23

Excited.

Jonathan 23:24

So and and The Idea of North will be headlining that show too.

Speaker 23:28

That's a great initiative that you've started up. So thank you. I think it will only go from strength to strength.

Jonathan 23:33

This is just the beginning, I think. You know, the other kind of the final part of it is the education that we offer for teachers and for choir leaders. So last year we had 37 conductors attend the conducting workshops. I didn't even know there were that many conductors in Adelaide, but there you go. And then this year at West, because we've got Idea of North, they're leading a day of workshops on a cappella techniques and stuff like that. So it's gonna be huge.

Speaker 23:57

How do you find coming back from the US, coming back to what I call 'little old Adelaide' mentality? Have you struggled with that from time to time?

Jonathan 24:08

If I can be completely honest, yes. Like I said, I think Adelaide and more broadly Australia, we punch well above our weight. But I think in Adelaide I felt there was a bit of a glass ceiling, but you kind of couldn't break out because you might upset the apple cart, you know. So I used that's why I used to go to these summer schools just to go out, kind of go up, come up for air, get inspired, and then come back, you know. Tried really hard to sort of build networking and community and trust and respect and that it doesn't matter what choir you're from or what style you sing, we're all on the same team. We're all chasing the same thing, which is singing, you know. So I guess everything that I've tried to do has been to kind of elevate that and build a sense of community. And so when I launch something like Voices of Adelaide, you know, that people are willing to give it a go even if they're not quite sure what it is or how it's going to manifest.

Speaker 25:06

Yeah, well, it's got runs on the board.

Jonathan 25:08

Yeah.

Speaker 25:08

Yeah.

Vocal Pedagogy Without Doing Harm

Speaker 25:09

So if I can change gears, you have a lot of training and education, as you've mentioned, in vocal pedagogy. Firstly, for our listeners, what is vocal pedagogy and why should singers care about it?

Jonathan 25:22

What is it and why do we care? So voice pedagogy is essentially just building a method, it's like a technical process that you can go through to be a singer, maybe a good singer. So why is it important? Well, I as I think I said earlier, I I felt like I had a responsibility out the front of an ensemble. You know, you're in front of a group of people that are working with you, they trust what you're saying, and then I was saying stuff, you know, whether it's a dynamic instruction or a musical instruction, and I was like, well, hang on, we're not quite achieving that. Is there a way, a technical way vocally, that we could achieve this? And then I was like sort of taking a shot in the dark, and then okay, actually, is this good for the singers or is it causing them harm? And I think in voice pedagogy, the most important thing is at first do no harm, you know, and that was written up on our board in our methods class on the very first lecture, and that's really stuck with me. I think as a conductor or a leader of singers, it's kind of important to have a bit of an understanding of how the instrument works, so that if you're asking your singers to do something that is actually maybe causing them a bit of damage or they're you know got vocal fatigue at the end of the rehearsal, maybe we need to look at that. But also, if we want to raise the level of the ensemble, we probably need to start looking at some of the technical things. So, like when when you and I first first started learning flute, we were told that this is the head joint, this is the body, this is the foot joint. But in singing, it's just like, no, just go for it. And I think there's probably maybe some value uh for people to just have a bit of an understanding of the instrument before we just launch into it.

Speaker 27:00

Yeah, and it is hard because it's invisible, you know, all the parts are invisible, they're all in there somewhere, and we kind of we kind of know. Yeah, yeah. But then we kind of don't.

Jonathan 27:09

And this is one of the tricks, right? It's a lot of us learn by sensation and and visualization and imagery and teaching through metaphor, which are really, really powerful tools, but sometimes we might just need to talk about the technical too, you know?

Speaker 27:24

And I've heard terms thrown around a lot like you need to have an open throat, and then someone says, someone else says, well, that's not the best way to explain that because some people don't feel it being open, or maybe they're trying too hard and then they end up having tension. It's best to say a relaxed throat. So there's all these opinions about things which I find a bit overwhelming, especially online now that you know you start to look up something on reels or whatever to do with vocal pedagogy or a singing teacher, and then you get hit with a thousand different ideas and opinions of how to make the best sound, and it can get very overwhelming. For someone who doesn't have much training in vocal ped, where can they start?

Where To Start With Voice Science

Jonathan 28:06 Speaker 28:06

It can be quite daunting. There's so much stuff out there. I'm a big fan of just kind of understanding the basic physiology. So let's talk about your vellum or your soft palate or your tongue. Let's talk about the articulators, lips, jaw, tongue. Let's talk about how your folds actually work, and then these things called the false folds, like are they getting in the way? Um, you talked about tension before. I think most singers we want to aim for an efficient model, but that is still in service of expression. You know, so like a a singing teacher or a textbook might say we have to sing, we have to breathe with a silent breath, right? But for me, the breath is what carries all the information that's in service of the expression. And if you listen to your favourite singer on on Spotify or whatever, and then you have to lift that audio file out and then cut the breath out, all of a sudden it's a very mechanical performance. So, you know, when we talk about breath, there's so many different opinions and of this, that, and the other. And I think one of the things I learned were to understand is each body shape is different. We've got tall, skinny people, we've got short, larger people. Whilst the lung function and the diaphragm and all that sort of is the same, their sensation of what that feels like in the body is going to be different, right? You know, a folk singer who's maybe a sleight of build sitting at a harp playing unamplified in a a small chamber space versus a Pavarotti type singer in a s with a symphony orchestra in that 3,000-seat theatre, they're gonna be very different approaches. So, yeah, I guess that's one of the biggest challenges. But I think don't don't get intimidated by it. You kind of got to start somewhere. There's Dr. Sam. I remember watching his video on the larynx about a hundred times because I had to cram like you know, an entire semester of voice science into two weeks. But you know, Joe Singer probably doesn't need to know that. But I think as a director, maybe you might want to consider just looking into it, you know. Just the conversation about registration is just every person has a different opinion on what that is, you know. And in the simplest terms, we could define registration as simply soprano, alto, tenor, and bass. But then there's a baritone or there's a mezzo soprano. But then if you go in the opera space, we talk about fach. And then you've got sabret or collatura, and then soprano is all of a sudden seven different things, you know. There's simple stuff, you know, like body alignment that we could just think about as a choir. And just from having to hold music, all of a sudden singers are getting pain in their shoulders or in their back, and it's like, well, there's a really obvious cause and effect there. There are things that you can follow your instinct, you know, and if your singers are hunched over, like one of the sort of analogies I use, um, depending on which group I'm with, is like, how would you sing if you are a really lazy teenager or a really, really old person? Or how would you stand if you're a soldier at a tension while you're singing? We start introducing tension or you know, lack of engagement. And I think we talk about tension as singers and and conductors, but it is an active instrument, so you kind of it's dynamic, so you it is a form of athleticism, but it's about being selective of where we're carrying those that tension and what's necessary and what's not, right? So, what I see a lot in community choirs and and and actually in in a lot of groups I work with is the effort, and they go, Oh, well, I'm singing now, I have to do all of this extra stuff. And oftentimes it's actually just undoing things and softening on gestures that can then create a sense of freedom while still being energized. So efficiency, you mean?

Jonathan 32:05

Yeah, so efficiency is like, is my tone really aspirate? And I'm like, is that why I'm running out of breath? If you think of a symphony orchestra, you watch the violin players at the front. I love watching that. Like watching an orchestra and all those bows going at the same time, incredible. Like that's in well-oiled machine, and something really special about that. But those instrumentalists are gonna hold themselves, it doesn't matter if they're playing softly or loudly, they still hold themselves with the same degree of engagement. And next time you're watching working with your choir and your singers, just notice how does their body alignment change when they're singing soft? And for some reason, we have this habit of you'll see heads crane crane forward and crouched bodies because we're trying to be engaging and sincere and and our body changes, and it's like actually, there's probably a more effective way you can sing to get more efficiency out of your instrument.

Speaker 32:57

Yeah, wow,

Jonathan 32:58

You know. So body alignment is one of the foundational things. Yeah, aspirate tone, breathy tone. We try to be really expressive and then we run out of breath. But you know, when you've got 20 people doing the same thing, maybe you don't need to try so hard in that space because it's the corporate sound that's kind of building to that product. It really is up to you how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole.

Speaker 33:21

Yeah.

Jonathan 33:22

There are some really good YouTube channels out there, but I I hear what you're saying, it's really hard to you know split the wood from the chaff and also taking into context their repertoire genre uh and and their school of thought. Like I like Dr. Dan, so that's just a YouTube channel. He's up in Queensland and super accessible. He kind of does the okay, here's the science, but here's some really his accessible language, and here are some vocal eses you can do. There are some great people in Adelaide. One of the things that I used to do in Festies was what we call PVIs, personal vocal instruction. And I would actually take each singer a couple of times a year and do like a vocal assessment and give them some vocaleses to work on throughout the year and then kind of monitor that, but I don't have capacity for that anymore. So I've got Rosie Hoskin, who's an Adelaide incredible vocal technician and artist. She's come in and worked with every single singer and has done a general session for everyone to kind of get everyone on the same page. I've got other people that come in and work with us just divide and conquer.

Speaker 34:23

And I do like that you've said not to be intimidated because it can be for I know for untrained directors or you know, casually trained or maybe self-taught directors, it can be very intimidating because there is a whole world of opinion and it's difficult to know where to start or or how to start. But I think the mechanics of the voices you said is a good place to start. What we might do is in the show notes put a few of those links that you've mentioned in there. And then people that are listening, if you've got other places that you have found some fantastic training, then maybe you can share that as well. That would be great. But that's a really important one because I know for a lot of community choirs, that doesn't get talked about a huge amount. It is about singing in harmony and finding the rhythms and and all those sort of fundamental things. But I feel like there's this whole voice pedagogy area that's not talked about or touched on because people don't know how.

Jonathan 35:21

It's interesting because like as soon as you then say something like this is being recorded, it's gonna be put out there. So everything I say, it's like, oh Jonno said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it you you have to understand that everyone it it's it's horses for courses, you know, so a particular method might work for a different genre or style. So it is it is interesting, you know, for me to get up and say, Well, this is my approach, and you kind of got to put it on the line, you know, yeah, it's got to stand up. So yeah, it's it's a fascinating space to be in.

Speaker 35:50

Yeah. And we are talking about the human body, so it is a complex and changing thing.

Jonathan 35:56

It's a dynamic and biological thing. Everything's changing and constantly moving.

Speaker 36:01

I love your perspectives. I feel like there's something that everyone can take away with

Sing-Along Picks And Final Thoughts

Speaker 36:05

that. All right, so a segment that we're introducing here is the sing along segment.

Jonathan 36:11

Right.

Speaker 36:12

So I'm wondering if there's a song that you would like to pick today for us to sing along. Because obviously it's about choir singing. It's a great way to wrap up a chat and sing a song.

Jonathan 36:24

Oh gosh.

Speaker 36:25

I can't remember if I told you about this.

Jonathan 36:27

No, I would have prepared something earlier.

Speaker 36:30

Sorry. Anything we could do?

Jonathan 36:33

Oh a sing-along. Gosh, I must admit I don't work in that space often. There's so many great people to do like the pub sings and stuff that's really engaging. The songs that I'm working on at the moment that it really resonate with me strongly at this time, but I'm not sure that people can do a sing-along to them. Go check out One Voice. So, Ruth Moody from The Wailing Jennies has done a beautiful piece called One Voice, and Carl Crossin did an arrangement of it for choirs. So go check it out. He's got different voicings and stuff to suit your needs, and just the sentiment of that song, and I actually use that as one of my workshop pieces at Choral Fest this year. This is the sound of one voice, one spirit, one voice. And just the sentiment of that is just is just beautiful and really relevant, I think, in our time now.

Speaker 37:23

Yeah.

Jonathan 37:24

And the other song we're doing at the moment, which is just beautiful, is Earth Song by Frank Ticheli.

Speaker 37:29

I love that song.

Jonathan 37:30

Yeah, so we're recording that with the ABC. And um, again, just for what's happening in the world at the moment, it's just a really, a really important message, I think.

Speaker 37:39

Okay, well, since you're recording it, I'm gonna wait for that one to be released and put that one at the end of this episode. But Jonno, okay so much for coming on the show today. We've gone to many places, and I feel like I've come out a better person at the end. So no, thank you for your time. You're you are not only a mover and shaker and a real pioneer with a lot of things vocally in Adelaide, but you are also a very collaborative person, and you you, as you mentioned before, you want to encourage other people to step up and you know be leaders in that space and peer lead and things like that, which is really, really important because it's not just what you do, it's how you do it that matters. So we really appreciate you and I hope that you don't run away too far because we need you.

Jonathan 38:24

Oh thanks.

Speaker 38:26

But no, thank you very much for coming on the show today. And I hope you've enjoyed being here and and chatting a little bit about your story.

Jonathan 38:32

Yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity, and it's just really exciting to see this project take shape now. So it's really cool.

Speaker 38:37

Thank you.

Jonathan 38:38

Thanks, Kerrie. Cheers.

Speaker 38:40

Well, that was our chat today with Jonathan Bligh. What a legend he is. I hope you've got something out of today's episode. If you've got any questions or ideas or thoughts about the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. What I'd love for you to do is share the podcast so that the word can get out to everybody all around the place. And the way you can do that is you can subscribe to the show on whatever podcast app you are listening to it from, or you can go really old school and copy the link and send it to your friends. Or you can be super, super old school and write it down one letter at a time, put it in an envelope, post it in the in the mail, and see if it gets there in three weeks. Thank you so much for listening today. I'm going to leave you with a recording hot off the press, guys.

Earth Song Performance

Speaker 39:23

This is the Festival Statesmen Chorus performing Frank Ticheli's Earth Song directed by the one and only Jonathan Bligh.