Episode 8: How to Network Without Selling

For many professionals, networking feels uncomfortable because it sounds too much like selling. But what if the best networkers aren't selling at all?

In this episode of Mitchell’s Moments Coaching Podcast, executive coach Mitchell Schuckman explains why the most effective business development strategy isn't about pitching yourself, it's about becoming genuinely curious about other people.

Using real stories from his own career, Mitchell shares how simple conversations at a Little League baseball game, a retirement party, and everyday networking opportunities turned into meaningful relationships and new clients. He explains why asking thoughtful questions, listening carefully, and building authentic connections consistently outperform traditional sales tactics, especially in today's professional services environment.

Whether you're building your career, growing a business, or simply looking to expand your professional network, this episode offers practical habits that will help you build trust, strengthen relationships, and create opportunities without ever feeling like you're selling. 

This episode explores:

• Why networking is about curiosity, not selling
• How meaningful conversations naturally create business opportunities
• The importance of listening more than talking
• Simple habits to strengthen and grow your professional network
• Why authentic relationships are the foundation of long term business development

Mitchell’s Moments delivers short, focused conversations designed to provide practical leadership insights you can apply immediately.

Learn more about Mitchell Schuckman and The Schuckman Group at
 theschuckmangroup.com

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Each episode delivers short, practical insights on leadership, coaching, business development, and navigating today’s changing business world.

You can also learn more about Mitchell Schuckman and his coaching and leadership programs at
www.theschuckmangroup.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to Mitchell's Moments Coaching Podcast, episode number eight. I'm Mitchell Shuckman, founder of the Shuckman Group, Executive Coaching, Leadership Development, and most importantly, business development consulting. And I say most importantly because business development in the world of professional services today is a hot, hot issue. As I've mentioned in the past, you've heard it on my podcast, you've heard seen it in the blogs I've written, especially recently. The concept of artificial intelligence reducing the cost of delivering a lot of repeatable professional services that clients receive. And when it reduces the cost of delivery, clients expect a reduction in fees. That price compression creates pressure on professional services firms to change their delivery models, but also to get new clients. So a lot of my clients are reaching out to me and saying, what we want you to help us be better at is to be better at having an everyday business development mindset. How do we approach business development every day? And Mitch, please don't make us feel like or sound like used car salespersons. We didn't become accountants or lawyers or engineers to be salespeople. We don't want to be salespeople. And so what I tell people is hey, in professional services, you don't need to be a salesperson. What you need is to be a good person, to be someone who people like and trust. Um it's or I it's to come up with a phrase that we'll all relate to, to have a really good bedside manner. You know, in professional services more than any other service, the client or the customer is buying people. Even if people are using technology tools or artificial intelligence to deliver at least some of the work, it's the human being that they're buying. The example I always use is when you go into a doctor's office or a hospital, you don't really want to meet a salesperson, you want to meet the doctor who's going to be treating you. Same is for accountants and lawyers. A client or a customer wants to know the person who's going to be delivering services. So being friendly, kind, caring, curious human being is what is going to get you more clients. Not being you not being a used car salesperson. You can be a good lawyer or good accountant and still have an everyday business development mindset. So today's episode is all about growing your network. And you know, networking and growing your network is an overused term. But honestly, the more people you know, and the more you talk to them in a useful and productive way about the work you do and the work they do, and you talk to them about who they are as people in their business setting, the more your network grows. And the more your network grows, the more people you're keeping in touch with, the more people you're getting to see you in a professional setting, and the more potential clients you have. So let me start by telling a story. True story about, it's not a new story because my I've got four boys and they're all adult men now, but this story relates to back in the day when one of my sons was playing Little League Baseball, and I was on the bleachers, it was really cold. I remember it vividly because those bleachers they like attract cold weather. And when you're sitting on cold cold bleachers, it goes straight up your body. So it was freezing out. And I actually had a um not just a jacket, but I had a big blanket over me because it was in the back of my car. It was actually in the back of my car for the beach, so obviously it was not a beach day. Anyway, sitting under cold bleachers, the blanket on me, talking to a father next to me who's talking about the fact that his company is moving a bunch of people to a brand new location. So US company moving a bunch of new people into a country in Southeast Asia to build a factory to manufacture a piece of a product that his company was known for. So a new new um new factory, new facility. The reason it came up was they had asked him to go to engineer to lead some of the building of this new factory. And he not the structure, he was a um like a detail, like he was building like the the really complex machinery to build the piece of this product. Okay. So they wanted him to move from New York to I I don't exactly remember where in Southeast Asia it was. I think it may have been Vietnam. That wasn't that's not the point. The point is we started talking about him and a group of his colleagues moving into this new country for his company to create this new factory. And I asked him a bunch of questions about whether the people were interested in moving, what were some of their concerns, what was his company telling him about the move? What was this company telling him about how they would compensate all of the things that went into the move? And he said to me, gee, you're really asking a lot of great questions about this. What makes you so interested? And I said, Well, first of all, I'm interested in human beings and what they do and how they feel, but secondly, I actually specialize in taxes as it relates to people moving from one country to the other. And he said, Oh my goodness, taxes really? Because I can tell you, my company has hired a firm, who shall remain nameless, to advise us on the taxes and the tax implications of moving to this new country. And they've got some junior staff people explaining it to us, and they are just they're right over our heads. Like we have no idea what the tax implications are going to be on us and our families by moving from New York to this country in Asia. And I said, Well, what kind of questions do you have? And he started asking me some questions, and I started telling him, hey, look, these cold bleachers in March on a cold day is not the place to be talking about taxes. But give me a call. I'm not gonna charge you, I'm just gonna answer some of your questions. And if if I'm helpful, maybe you can introduce me to your employer as someone who can explain this stuff well. If not, if you whether you find me uh helpful or not, if you're not comfortable, it's no problem. I'll do it anyway. Long story short, this company became a client simply because I was asking questions, expressing curiosity, and learning about things that this person was needing that fit right into an area that I had a lot of expertise in. Now, it does never always work out quite that smoothly. This time it did. But here's the thing: you never know who you're speaking with, and they may you may have a conversation today that they remember a year from now, or they remember when they're speaking to a colleague or a friend or a family member who has an issue that you can help them with. It's just about having an open conversation wherever you can. And it doesn't have to be, the conversation does not need to be, let me tell you about what I do for a living, let me tell you how I help my clients. No, no, no, no. Just talk about them, ask them about them, listen to them, understand what they're what's going on, good, bad, positive, negative, and and ask more questions, be even more curious. In fact, you don't even have to get into what you do or how you can help. All you really need to do is learn stuff about the person. So it's interesting because I always call um, there's an there's another thing, I uh a term that I use when it comes to selling in professional services, and it's give to get. Sometimes you need to give a little bit of information to get more information, but remember, whenever you're speaking to people, getting information is the valuable thing. Telling them about yourself is, or telling them even how what an expert you are, is modestly helpful. But understanding as much about the other person is hugely helpful. So in the example I just gave with the person who is moving to Asia, lo and behold, right in my wheelhouse, doesn't have to be quite so obvious. I have a similar I right now I'm I'm doing professional services, business development coaching, and executive coaching, you know, at a strategic level for senior execs. I love to ask people what they do, and you know what? Four out of five times, I can't even help them. But I learn a lot about people, and frankly, people like to be people like talking about themselves. So people like when someone asks them questions and appears curious and caring about their situation. So whether or not you're actually generating work four out of five times, you're at least making someone feel good and say, ah, I like Mitchell, he's an interesting guy. That to me, you win something there too. But if you give a little bit of information, like, wow, that's really interesting, you're you're an electrician who does work in office buildings. I don't know that I can help very much, but but I'll I might say, you know, um, I just started my own executive coaching firm. I'm a certified executive coach. I spent a lot of my career um helping professional services firms like accounting, consulting, law firms, sell new work, get new clients, and I'm having a lot of fun in my business. Tell me more about yourself. I've planted a seed about who I am. I've turned the conversation back to the other person. Because you know what might happen? The other person might say, you know, my brother just moved jobs and is now an executive at a new client or at a new company, and he's nervous about how well he's doing. Maybe I'll give him your name. Sure, happy to speak with him. These things happen just by being curious and present, focusing the conversation on the other person, giving a little bit about yourself, but don't sell yourself. Just give a little bit about yourself and keep going. Now, this is hugely important. I talked about the war for clients, and I talked about the fact that today in professional services, AI is completely changing the lane landscape on delivery. So everyone needs to make more money or get everyone needs to make more money on clients because the gener in general fees are going down. The more people you know, the more irons you have in the fire for potential work. You don't know where it's going to come from, but it will come if you have this discipline. And you need to do it regularly because even contacts in your network who are A-list contacts, they they um are potential clients, they're connected to potential clients, they refer people to you all the time, they are a wealth of potential revenue for you. A-list clients don't always A-list contacts don't always stay A-list contacts. Sometimes they become C-list contacts, they retire, they move into a different job completely, they find someone they like to work with better, or or they're forced to work with them in their company. So, this discipline of networking, doing it where you wherever you are, and just being a curious listener is an important skill because having that broad network takes continuous work. And in this war for clients, having the bigger network and having a network that likes you is the best way that you can potentially get more work. And let me tell you this from personal experience. I started my consulting firm about a year ago after retiring from a big corporate professional services career. I can tell you, I'm doing networking all the time. And I can also tell you, I have a great conversation with someone. More often than not, it doesn't become work. In fact, the ones that become clients are the ones I least expect. The ones that I see at a party, I just had this happen recently. I went to a party for a former colleague of mine who's retiring soon. And I went to that person's retirement dinner. And I was speaking to someone who I didn't know well, I knew of, and I mentioned that, and they knew that I started my own consulting firm. They said, How's it going? I said, It's going great, having a lot of fun, enjoying my work. And I said, How's it going for you? And boy, she kind of started telling me what a tough time she's having at work and how many things that are are worrying her about her work. And I said, Hey, look, you know I'm a coach. You don't have to hire me as your coach. But we're here in a big party, it's loud, it's hard to talk. Give me a call and we'll have a conversation. No obligation to hire me as a coach, but let's spend an hour just catching up on what's going on with you. And if I I if I have some great ideas where I can help you explore your own thoughts more deeply, it'd be great. I'd love to catch up with you more. I waited a day, I sent her a text. I waited a week later, I didn't hear back from her. I sent her one of my prior articles I wrote from my blog that I thought she'd be interested in. I left it alone for a while. Ten days later, she reached out to me. Can we do that call you mentioned? I just had a really bad day and I'd like to talk it out. We had the call, she's now a client. So this habit of networking doesn't have to be sales at all, just has to be conversational. Um, the other thing I like to do is I have a technical computer system where I keep all of my clients and targets, a client relationship management system. It's specifically designed for small business people, consultants, and coaches like me. But I've got all of my contacts in there. And I even have clients that I've coached and they're finished and done, and I'm not coaching them anymore. And every so often, when I say every so often, for me, I do this on the couch in front of the TV almost every day. I mean, my my wife laughs at me. We'll be sitting there watching a baseball game. I'm a big Mets fan, but we watch almost every Mets game. I know they're terrible this year, but they're starting to turn it around. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, I'll look at my list of potential clients and targets, and something will strike me about someone, I'll send them a text or a WhatsApp or an article that might that made me that reminds me of them. If I see it's their birthday on LinkedIn or social media or my calendar, I'll send them a birthday wish. And just keeping in contact with no expectation is a great way of keeping that network fresh. Here's what I would suggest as I wrap up this episode. Spend five minutes every other day just thinking about this. Who can I reach out to? Who can I send a text message to? Take one conversation at a party, at a ball game, um at a sp at a at a place that you wouldn't otherwise be thinking about work. And ask them how things are going in their work and listen and be curious. These habits build upon themselves, and if and and before you know it, you will become great, a great networker. Not a salesperson, not a used car salesperson, a networker, a professional services networker who is technically competent, who serves clients well, but is broadening your network because if you broaden your network, you're going to get more clients, you're going to have more opportunities, and you're going to become a builder. And you need to be a builder when in today's day and age where there is a war for clients and professional services. So that's it. Episode 8, Mitchell's Moments Coaching Podcast, under 20 minutes. Thanks for joining. Have a great day.