From Rejection Letters to Self-Publishing: Author Jannis DeGraw Buhr's Creative Journey

Every creative journey has twists and turns.

This week, I sit down with Michigan author Jan Buhr to talk about writing, publishing, creative courage, and how pain makes you a better creator.

In this candid conversation, we discuss

• technology and writing
• deciding to pause her pursuit
• family support and the difference it makes
• and more

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Credits:

Editing: Greg Herman

Music: “Corporate Inspiration” track - by Oleksandr Savochka at Pixabay

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

You have to get out there and experience life to be a good artist because in any any form of art, the pain you feel in life makes you a better artist.

Speaker 1 0:09

Hi everyone and welcome to Highlight Her. Before we get into the episode, I invite you to hit that follow button. It helps the show get delivered into your feed and it's a free way to support the podcast. Today's featured guest is Jan Burr from Sumter Township in Michigan, in the United States. Jan is another full circle guest for me. I taught a couple of her children in elementary school. She's a super sweet lady, and I'm excited to learn more about her author journey. It sounds like she has lots to share with us. Let's get started and add her to the highlight her circle of season two. Hi, Jan.

Speaker 0:42

Hi, Jenny. Thank you for putting me on your podcast.

Speaker 1 0:44

This is Oh, I'm so excited to chat with you. But before we get into your actual journey, I have a question that I like to ask my guests. Is there a time recently where you thought this is why I do this?

Speaker 0:56

That this is why I do this? Sure.

Speaker 1 0:58

This is why I write.

Speaker 0:59

Yeah. Well, I mean, I I'll just say I write. It's a it's another way of uh rejuvenating, escaping from reality. I think just like when we read a book, it's our escape from the real world. We need that time to rejuvenate. I believe God gave us these creative, you know, exits so we can rejuvenate our spirit and our soul sometimes when life gets hard. And I know writing has been that for me uh since I was a teenager, really. And so the writing a book is even a bigger feat and takes a lot of uh a lot of thinking, concentration, focusing. And so it's just a major escape. So I think that's uh that's a basic reason why I write. Um, but I love stories. So my my mom's side of the family, they're Scots, Irish, and a lot of storytelling goes on. And uh I just enjoy that. And I know people enjoy the stories. So that sounds like a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 1:52

I bet you have a lot of fun family dinners.

Speaker 1:54

We get a lot of stories. My mom's 95 and she has still has stories. Oh I love that.

Speaker 1 2:00

So let's go back to the beginning. In your bio, you mentioned that you've been writing since you were young, and then you eventually decided to start on the publishing journey. Can you take us back to the beginning of your publishing journey?

Speaker 2:14

Yeah. So, well, I started writing in 2001. And and like I mentioned before, it was a definite escape from some reality. We had some tough times. Um, we had we were stressed out, raising a family of five, working a lot. And then to top it off, one of our sons had a friend commit suicide. And there was a lot of a lot of repercussions from that, a ripple effect, I would say. And I took that time to take up the challenge of, hey, why don't I write a book? And uh it kind of started from there. But the whole publishing business back then was you send query letters to agent after agent. Well, I was writing to de-stress, and after getting so many rejection letters from agents, I told my husband, this is not a stress reliever to get these letters in the mail. And this is back in you know, 2000, 2001. Well, so I set it aside and just kept writing books. Well, when Amazon made it possible to self-publish, that's when we decided, hey, why don't I put it out there and actually publish some of the books? So that's that's when we got started with it. And I say we because my husband is my partner in this because he does all the technical stuff. If I did not have him to plug it into Amazon with all the digital stuff, I would have to hire somebody. So that's when it started.

Speaker 1 3:28

I love that you have that that partnership. I enjoy seeing him promote you. I know he's the guy behind the camera, so to speak, and he brags about you all the time. And the total side note, I think you got you and your husband are a great example of a long-term marriage commitment and just just supporting each other. And it's a beautiful thing that God lets people see because I know that's hard to do these days. It's hard anyway, but um, so yeah, thank you, Jenny. And I appreciate that in a um, in a we'll say in a godly way. Kudos to you, you know. Thank thank you that God is showing this through you guys. And I know that's a tangent. Well, but but no, I appreciate that. What a blessing that you have that support for your project. And I know your son has done some proofreading for you, right?

Speaker 4:15

Yes, Dan did the proofreading for the trilogy, for the Macaulay trilogy. Dan loves history, and uh, I thought he might make a good beta reader on that, and he sh and he certainly was. He enjoyed all the history. Uh, funny side note so it's historical fiction, the Macaulay trilogy is historical fiction, but it's also romance, Christian, clean romance. And I knew my son would be interested in the history part of it. I didn't really think he would care about the romantic part, and that he would let me know if it was sappy because I did not want this to be a Hallmark movie. Um but funny enough, somewhere through the second or third book, at one point he messaged me and said, So, mom, these two are talking. Are they are they gonna be a couple? And I thought that was pretty funny. That's great. So, but yeah, he was a great beta reader, and I really was I felt privileged that my son would actually read his mother's work. So that was sweet.

Speaker 1 5:10

I love that you have a variety of family members working on this project with you. Does that add an extra element of satisfaction for you? Yes, it does.

Speaker 5:20

It does. Mark Mark's sister is has been one of my beta readers through the whole project. And uh, one of my sister-in-law, another one of my sisters-in-law is a beta reader. My 95-year-old mom is my the wing beneath my wings, I say, because ever since I started writing in 2001, she read everything I wrote. Um, I cannot get criticism from her, so that part does not help me, but she's just, you know, she enjoys the books, and uh she actually, anytime I publish a book, she has me send her show several books because she needs to dish them out to all her lady friends, this person in this nursing home and this librarian, whatever. So she is a big promoter over in Illinois. And uh I love that. Yeah, sweet.

Speaker 1 6:04

Speaking of Illinois, so do you have readers around the country?

Speaker 6:08

Yes, as a matter of fact, I mean, through the United States, I do. Um, I was at Facebook's been great to connect that way. Um, but also um my son, the the I probably the most exciting one was when my son went to Ireland a few years ago, took book one of the Macaulay trilogy with him with the intent of taking pictures of it in uh Lurigan County Irma, which is the main city there uh involved in the book, but also to possibly leave it with somebody to read. So he did that. He sent me some really nice pictures of the book sitting on a bench in uh Lurigan, and but then he ended up leaving it with a woman named Kathy, and she ended up reading it. Well, it turned out Kathy actually grew up in the Troubles in Northern Ireland, which is this what the history is about. And so she was there, she's probably about the same age as me in her 60s and experienced it. And she read books, she's read book one and two, she's into book three, and she was amazed at how accurate my history was. That was major affirmation for me. And I was actually nervous while she was reading book one, but when she got done with it, I was excited. It was a you know a big relief. But that's that's probably the most exciting that somebody has read in Ireland and now she's passing it around. Um, and she would like me to come there and do a book signing, which would be which should be fun. So maybe one of these days when we get the funds, we'll travel over there. Have you looked into it at all?

Speaker 1 7:30

Have an idea of how much you'd need to. I mean, you don't have to tell us the amount, but I'm just wondering, have you researched it a little bit or are you waiting?

Speaker 7:36

We're waiting. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's not a you know, authoring is not a uh get rich quick operation if it's a get rich operation at all. So, you know, we'll see. But that would be fine.

Speaker 1 7:48

Absolutely. So you've mentioned the you took a kind of a twist on the publishing journey once you realized it wasn't it was causing more stress than it was worth when you went the traditional route back from the early 2000s, and then you pivoted when Amazon publishing became available.

Speaker 8:08

Have you had other times when you've had to pivot? I I mean, I'll say I've pivoted genres and I've changed genres just because when I did write in two from 2001 to about 2009, I actually altogether I wrote about eight or nine books. And when I put out more than a brother, which is the first one that got published, that was from that era. But then not realizing that this story was was going need was gonna need to continue, I ended up writing book two and book three, and those were fresh, freshly written in 2003, 2004. Well, after those three those the trilogy was out, I really wanted to bring out some of the other books I wrote. So I talked to some people about, you know, changing genres. Just, I mean, I'll I'll I'll continue. In fact, right now I'm working on a historical fiction again. But what happens if I leave the historical fiction fans and go to mystery, a mystery book? And somebody gave me the advice. They said, well, you might lose a few fans, but you might gain some. And I've learned that um, even my brother and sister, who, you know, my sister read the historical fiction, but it wasn't her favorite genre. Once I put the mystery books out, my brother and sisters total totally responded, and some others did too. So I've learned, you know, some people they just love the mystery books, some people just love the historical fiction. And I get that. I'm the same way. I think all of us who are readers have our genres we really like, and that's just what we want to read. So I put out the two mystery books. It was a bit scary, I will say. And the first book, it took a while. You know, people get your book. It's not like it's not like art or when you perform, you know, when I perform a piano piece, you get a response right away. People see your art, they respond right away. When you write a book, you wait because people have to read it. So you just wait. And I'll tell people it feels like a constant drum roll in my head is that waiting. So the first mystery book I put out, it took almost the whole month of January, and I was about ready to uh to kill the whole idea. And then suddenly I got a text from my brother, and I posted that on Facebook because it was so exciting because he was all into it, and then I got comments from other people that were reading it and they loved it. It was it just kind of opened it up for people to let me know, even though they hadn't finished it yet, they were loving it. So I think that was a change up of just you know, go ahead and be daring and take that risk.

Speaker 1 10:26

That's what I was thinking. You had to be brave to change genres.

Speaker 10:30

Yeah, yeah, it was kind of it was kind of brave. I tend to be the the type of person that jump in with both feet and just see what happens, but then when I do it, then you get a I get a little bit nervous, like what did I do?

Speaker 1 10:43

But you know, it's so it's worked out fine. That's how you discover what works and what doesn't. Yes, yeah, by trying, yeah. Trying. Um so do you have an author page on Facebook or is it only your personal profile?

Speaker 10:57

It's just my personal profile. I have not I have not done that and I have not gotten a website yet. And that's something that we have still, you know, are still developing, trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 11:09

So if listeners wanted to find you to follow your books and your writing adventures, how would they find you on Facebook and Instagram? What are you under?

Speaker 11:19

I'm under the same . It's the the name I use as an author, Jannis DeGraw Buhr. So that's the same on Facebook and Instagram, and on Amazon, it would pop up.

Speaker 1 11:29

Great. So, listeners, if you enjoy historical fiction and mystery and you want to follow Jan on social media, you can find her under Jannis DeGraw Buhr. Is that Jannis with one or two N's? I'm sorry, I don't remember.

Speaker 11:41

It's two N's J-A-N-N-I-S. Yes, it is it is an unusual spelling, and there's a story behind that, but I'll tell you some other day.

Speaker 1 11:50

Okay. But uh so listeners, go ahead and look her up so you can follow her adventures because you never know. She might have another pivot. Do you want to share what you're currently working on?

Speaker 12:00

Sure, sure. So, two things. A third mystery book is in the process, is with the editor right now. Um and that it's called Return to Go Harbor. It's actually a mystery that takes place in Gibraltar, right here in Gibraltar, Michigan. When we were still living there, I wrote a mystery that took place there and uh really enjoyed that. So that one's with an editor. Meanwhile, I am working on a historical fiction book of a um, it's actually taken from a letter I have from my great-great-great-grandfather, James McFarland, who came over from London, uh, took his family over from London over to New York, didn't like the scene in New York City. So they actually took the the route of the Erie Canal that had just come out in 1825. And they took the Erie Canal, came over to Lake Erie, came down the Ohio River, and landed, and they landed in Cincinnati. Um, I've been down to Cincinnati. There is a park there named McFarland Park, which was McFarland's farmland. And we found their tombstones and everything, so that was exciting. But um, I'm kind of geeked with that kind of history and family history. And people have said, We why don't you make historical fiction out of this this letter? Okay, so James McFarland wrote a letter back to a friend in London and described his their whole trip from New York City to Cincinnati. And it's it's fascinating. They were believers, and uh his faith shows up in this letter, and it's and I want my family, I want my children and grandchildren to know about him. And some people might not just read this historical letter, they might be interested in a story. That's why I love history. If you make a story and make it real people with real feelings, it comes alive. So that I'm working on, and I will say I have hit a wall with that several times and uh gone back and forth because it's a lot of work to do. Though that kind of research for for history, um, the historical fiction that I wrote with Macaulay trilogy happened in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Well, I was alive then, so I knew you know, I had an idea how people talked, what what was popular, all of that. But I I was not alive in 1831, so it's taken a lot more research, but I'm plugging, plugging on with it and just pushing through. And I I believe this is what I need to do. So so Lord willing, I'll get that done. Maybe it'll be out in a year or two. My like I said, my mom's 95, it's her family. I would love to get it. I'd love to get it done before she goes to heaven, but that's yet to be seen.

Speaker 1 14:28

So you mentioned that you've hit a wall a few times. What do you do mentally and creatively? What do you do to help you push through those walls?

Speaker 14:38

I think sometimes you just have to walk away from it for a minute, you know, just like a painting or practicing a musical instrument. Just put it down, walk away, give yourself some time. Um, sometimes getting inspired by other stories, stories, books, movies can inspire me, but also a lot of times I will go to coffee shops. I have found that getting away from the house, sitting at a coffee shop helps me get inspired and helps me dig in and do the the harder part of it to get it back. Um and and you know, just I pray about it too. That I ask for God's guidance on it. Um, but yeah, that's that's that part of hitting the wall that if you really love it, I think that's where it comes down to it, Jenny. If you really love what you're doing and you really want to do it, there's that fight inside to get past the wall. Right? Yes.

Speaker 1 15:27

And I agree that sometimes you just have to walk away. There's lots of things in life that sometimes we need a break from it so we can come back fresh our whatever our mind is stuck on. Sometimes we have to let let it have some space so we can get unstuck.

Speaker 15:42

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 15:43

Do you have a superpower when it comes to being an author?

Speaker 15:47

A superpower? I all I can think of is the storytelling part that's just in my genes. And I Jenny, honestly, I really didn't even realize it was something that unusual. Uh, maybe because I grew up in it. My grand, my, my mom and her mother, they just they tell stories. Uh, my grandma loved to write. Um, and so there were times when when I'll tell talk to people and I just bring up some story from the past and and they'll say, Well, you're such a storyteller. And I'm like, I look at them like, you know, is that so is that odd? You can't tell a story. And I just I guess that's when it started to occur to me that okay, maybe there's something there in in different people's makeup. You know, I love a good story.

Speaker 1 16:27

So that makes me think of um a show that Josh and I watched through together, Castle. I don't know if you've ever seen it. Yes, he takes a journey and we didn't finish it because it kind of went off and changed the storytelling, actually. They kind of the storytelling itself kind of went downhill, but it was interesting to me when his character was on point how he would approach the the investigation from a storyteller. And like, well, there's something missing here. There's, you know, if I were writing a story about this, blah, blah, blah, or you know, he would often, like you said, be inspired by movies and other stories. He'd bring up other movies that might be similar to the case that they were working on. Well, in this, blah, blah, blah, you know. So I think there is definitely a storyteller perspective where you notice things that other people don't. Right, right. Yeah, definitely. There's that. Yes.

Speaker 17:23

Yeah. There's a there's a quote I picked up somewhere. I'm not gonna even be able to say it right, but it was just saying how to be an artist. And and I think in this quote, it was pretty much categorizing any artistic endeavor. You can't just hole up in your house and not experience life. You have to get out there and experience life to be a good artist. Because in any any form of art, the the pain you feel in life makes you a better artist. It draws you into your art more. And I've I've experienced that, you know, with the writing, with with my music, that that oftentimes going through something in life painful actually makes me a better artist, a better writer, a better musician because I because this music or this story affects me more, or I I can go deeper because I have felt deeper. I can go deeper with a character because I have been there. I have felt it. Um, but if you hole up in your house and don't experience life, how can you how can you describe people in your books if you don't know people? Right, if you haven't experienced it. And and just on a side note, just kind of funny, but when my husband was a pastor, um, you know, being in that position as a pastor and pastor's wife, you experience a lot of different kinds of people. And there were some that could be highly irritating, you know, in your life. And I just learned at that time when I started to write that if somebody had that kind of a personality or was causing trouble, I would just chalk them up for a, yo, hey, they'd make a great character, my book, because I could have never come up with this myself. Right. Right. So oftentimes I would just keep a little notebook and keep some notes about, okay, this would be a good, good person, good character to just bring in because you've got to have those people who rub rub the reader the wrong way. And I've had those characters and had readers say, Oh, I don't like that person. I'm like, Well, good, you're not supposed to like them.

Speaker 1 19:14

Yeah. So you mentioned your you have a little notebook. Do you have a routine where you write every day, or is it ebb and flow, depending on this? Like right now, it's summertime. You might have more time with your grandkids. Do you have a structured day?

Speaker 19:29

I really don't. Um, well, I mean, I yeah, I teach piano. So the days I teach piano, I can't do as much. Although, if it's a really long piano lesson that's boring, my brain does sometimes go to the story. I will admit it, don't tell anybody. No, but yeah, no, I think it's a lot of um, it's a lot of hit and miss. I know a lot of people want to be structured and sit down at a certain time of the day and certain time to write, and that's how they work. I don't really work that way. I do wait for the time that I don't have any obligations. I don't have any piano students coming. I know I have a large amount of time so that I can get in the mode of the writing. So, I mean, I I keep a journal, I've kept diaries and journals since I was 14. And, you know, that I write, but otherwise, the whole writing process, you know, I might think of things while I'm driving in the car, wait till I get to a stoplight and pull out my little notebook and write a note. And to be honest, sometimes when pastor is preaching, he says something that spurs on some inspiration. Yeah, and Mark will see me pull out my little notebook, he's and he's he knows exactly what I'm doing. It's like, you know, are you focusing?

Speaker 1 20:33

So I think you have oh, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, you run into inspiration all kinds of places, and our brains, a lot of us our brains work that way anyway. Someone says something and it triggers, oh, like either it triggers, oh, I forgot I was supposed to do that today. I need to write that down so I don't forget, or oh my goodness, that would be perfect for this character that I've been stuck on, or oh, I want to look that up later. Inspiration happens all the time, all the time.

Speaker 20:58

Yeah. So I always keep a little notebook in my purse so I can write. And if I don't have that somewhere else, I just have to write it on a note. And even at night, I know some people are this way where you get ideas at night, and you can't fall asleep unless you write the idea down because your brain tries to hold on to it. In fact, Jenny, this reminds me of when you had my son Peter as your student and he often daydreamed and never finished his, wouldn't finish his tests. And one time you told him, Peter, when you come up with a creative idea, put a little note on your piece of paper, and then you can come back to that idea later. I loved it. I could have hugged you because I totally get that. When you have a creative idea, you hold on to it and then you can't focus on anything else. And that was Peter, he was highly creative, and you got it.

Speaker 1 21:40

Aw I'm glad I was able to do that. So, Jan, we were just talking about inspiration and your notebook and how your days are kind of depending on what you have going, because you're not just an author, right? You have so many roles. Is there anything that helps you stay organized?

Speaker 22:00

As an author, I tend to be an organized person. I need organization. I keep lists like crazy because I need to see the lists. I need to check off my lists. And I think that helps me. And the days that I want to write amongst the other things I have to do, I will put work work on book. Just to have that there as almost like a reminder when I look at the rest of the list that okay, you get this done, you get this done, but then you can sit down, work on the books. I love that.

Speaker 1 22:27

Is there anything I know you're working on two books right now? Is there anything that you're particularly excited about that's coming down the road? Do you have a like a book signing tour or any other new projects? Or these two books are your babies right now?

Speaker 22:42

Well, I have a book signing coming up. There's a place that I keep going back to Charlotte's book Nook in Frankenmooth. That's coming up July 4th. Um is really nice up there. We've I've always seemed to do, you know, okay up there. And it's nice because as an indie author, you know, you're not you're not with the big book sellers. You're not with Barnes and Noble. Um, so it gets it gets harder to sell books, which is not, and it that's not my forte. That's my husband's sales and all that managing thing. You know, even at the book signings, the first ones that I ever did, my husband would sit with me and people would go by and he'd nudge me, like, Dan, you need to stand up and talk to those people. I'm like, oh yeah. So that part of it, you know, it's been a bit of a struggle. But yeah, so July 4th, I'm going back up to Charlotte's book note at Frank and Moose. She's having a big, they're having a big author book signing. So there could be about 30, 30 different authors. They they do that and open it up. We really appreciate it because you don't pay for a table, they just will take a percentage if you sell a book, and that helps us indie authors up out a lot. Um, but meanwhile, I've made contact with uh a couple other places. Um, I would say one of the most exciting places I have gone to do book signing, and we're gonna get another one scheduled, is in Watertown, Wisconsin, which is the main setting for the trilogy. So we did that. I went there in uh November and did a book signing, and that was a lot of fun. So I want to make sure I returned to the city. It's it's very interesting to go to the place where the setting took place.

Speaker 1 24:12

Absolutely.

Speaker 24:13

So we'll you know, I want to do that. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 24:15

And maybe someday a book signing in Ireland.

Speaker 24:18

That would be really fun now that I've bit had it a bit affirmed. To just go in cold turkey would have been a little scary. I'm on a few Facebook posts from uh people in Ireland, so I get a feel for some of their personalities and some of their take on the on-Americans, and uh you know, they're just like the rest of us. Some are very accepting of Americans and then others are a little uh snarky. So that would that would have made it a little scary. But once I've once I've had it affirmed that I've got my history straight, I'm not worried about it. But yeah, she's and and another thing, and this is just something that would be a dream, it would be fun. She has some connections to a filmmaker in Ireland. And I've had I've had people, I will say, I've had people who have read the trilogy say this would make a great movie. And so I've you know that would be fun. So that's like a dream, that's a dream, Jenny. That um as long as it was a good company that did the film, it didn't take it and screw up the whole story, which we all know have seen book to movies, aren't always fun for those of us who have, you know, been very passionate about a book and then see it in a movie and get disappointed.

Speaker 1 25:24

So yeah, right.

Speaker 25:26

Yes, or they cut out half of the stuff and you're like right.

Speaker 1 25:29

Well, you might want to start a new notebook just for movie script ideas. Movie script like little notes to write to yourself. This part would be most important. Maybe we do it this way, that kind of thing.

Speaker 25:40

Hmm, that's an idea. I do pretty much have the soundtrack ready because that's for me, I mean, in my head, and I've listed some of it. The Irish music, I mean, I listen to all the time. In fact, that um there's a song called The Island that was written by Paul Brady. Um, and I heard it sung by somebody from Celtic Thunder. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but Keith Harkin sang it in one of their first concerts, and it was about a young boy struggling with the whole idea of why are we at war during the troubles? Why are we fighting? And it really spoke to me. It really hit me about the sadness of my generation over there in Ireland and what they were going through. Um, so that to me would be the top song for the movie. So, but yeah, yeah, soundtrack music, it'd be like, can I help with that part of it?

Speaker 1 26:26

Aw, fun. Well, we're at our lightning round. It's a little bit of fun questions to help people get to know you a little bit. Coffee or tea? Tea. Chai. Early bird, ooh, chai? Oh, yeah. All right. Early bird or night owl. Early bird. There's something that helps you as an author, either one like one tool.

Speaker 26:47

I am a hands-on writer. I love my black medium point pens. There you go. So there it is. And and uh that is just something I love to do. So anytime I start a book, that's where it starts. I have a lot of spiral notebooks that I don't think I could ever throw away. And what, you know, even though the books are published, it's like you've got to keep those initial books. So I start that way, but and I fight technology, I am just that type of a person. But once I see the purpose of it and how it helps, I'm thankful for it because writing a book on the computer is much easier than the typewriter. And uh thankful I never had to go that route. But yeah, so technology is a big thing. I got got my own laptop in this whole business and had to learn to use to use it myself. I've had to learn technology, but once again, I will do it because I love the whole book process. So if this is what helps me, then I'll learn how to do it. And I've learned how to put stories up on Facebook and add music to them and all of that, send it through to Instagram. Um, you know, I've learned a lot of that to get it up on social media. Um, because yeah, all those tools help. They help the indie author a lot. But um Amazon is the biggest, you know, Kindle, Kindle publishing is just wonderful. And just to be able to get my books up like that and to get it out there. I love that.

Speaker 1 28:08

Do you have a favorite way to unwind after a busy day?

Speaker 28:12

I used to criticize my dad for this after he taught music all day. He would just sit in front of the television and and zone. And I, as a teenager and a college-age kid, I was like, they're just wasting their time watching TV. But you know what? For me to zone out with a drama. I love dramas, I love movies, and that is where I feel like I can just give my brain a rest. With the writing and teaching piano, I think both of those are they're very uh demanding on your brain process. So I like I like to do that um at the end of the day. In the mornings, I like to sit outside and just take in the outdoors.

Speaker 1 28:47

So and I know our our audience doesn't know this, but you have a beautiful space to of your own in the backyard that you and your husband created, and then now you're fixing up after that big storm last year. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. Um, lastly, in our in our lightning round questions, do you have another author or musician, artist, entrepreneur that you would like to highlight? Yes.

Speaker 29:16

I you know Christy Brinkley. I do. She has Sugar Island Bakery in Flat Rock. We used to do things together when when we were both at the church in Gibraltar and have ladies' dinners and just come up with all these, you know, we did a Chinese dinner one time, one time we did Mediterranean, had a lot of fun with cooking and baking. And I just am so thrilled she's got this coffee shop with a wonderful bakery there in Flat Rock. Um, she's just done a wonderful job. That that was a big risk in jumping into a business like that. It's a beautiful spot. It is. If you want to shop, yes, I do.

Speaker 1 29:52

So yeah, to work when you're talking about it. I wondered, is that one of your places to work sometimes?

Speaker 29:57

It is. It's just a it's a bit of a drive for me from something township, but yes, I do like to get over there when I can instead.

Speaker 1 30:04

I actually just recently was able to peg her down for an interview date. So she's coming after you. Um, I don't remember if she's gonna be in season the end of season two or the beginning of season three. Okay, but yes, I was very excited when it finally was a time where she had some availability.

Speaker 30:22

Oh, good, good. I listened to your podcast with Jan Dale. She she and I did our mural on the back of our barn. And cool, one of the last times she got up on uh um now I can't think of the word for it. Scaffolding. Scaffolding, thank you. Yes, because I heard her say she doesn't do scaffoldings anymore. So, well, maybe ours was one of the last ones. The old brigity one. But yeah, we hired her and uh I helped her paint the big mural on the back of our barn. That was fun. She was fun person to be. I can see you ladies having a fun time together. That was nice.

Speaker 1 30:52

Well, audience, remember you can follow Jan on Facebook and Instagram, and I'll be sure to put the links in the show notes. Speaking of show notes, you can also find there the link to subscribe to the Scoop, the podcast newsletter. You can get each episode delivered. Jan, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 31:09

Thank you for having me. That was fun.

Speaker 1 31:11

I really appreciate your time and conversation. Audience, thank you for listening today. If you'd like to know what we discussed after the episode ended, head on over to my After the Highlight collection on Patreon.