SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, I'm Dr.
SPEAKER_02: Steve Holtz.
SPEAKER_02: I want to welcome you to the Road Church Podcast.
SPEAKER_02: Each week we go into God's Word.
SPEAKER_02: We teach chapter by chapter and verse by verse.
SPEAKER_02: And we are here to build the Kingdom of God revolution through empowering people to change the world.
SPEAKER_02: So we pray this will minister to you at your heart level and change your life.
SPEAKER_02: Today, be encouraged by our guest speaker.
SPEAKER_02: Hey, good morning.
SPEAKER_02: So we're blessed to have Mark DeSantos with us.
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be an awesome time.
SPEAKER_02: But I want you to turn in your Bibles to Matthew 17.
SPEAKER_02: And I kind of want to set the stage a little bit for Mark today because it is different.
SPEAKER_02: We're not in my series on the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02: We'll pick it up next week.
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to be talking about the gift of the Spirit of knowledge and wisdom.
SPEAKER_02: So knowledge and wisdom.
SPEAKER_02: But I wanted you to pick up in Matthew 17.
SPEAKER_02: No, told you wrong.
SPEAKER_02: Luke 11.
SPEAKER_02: Look at Luke 11.
SPEAKER_02: So Luke 11 is what I meant because I'm going to say something about Matthew 17 at the end of the ministry time today.
SPEAKER_02: But look at Luke 11.
SPEAKER_02: It says, verse 9, so I say to you, ask and it will be given to you.
SPEAKER_02: Seek and you will find, knock, and it will be open to you.
SPEAKER_02: For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks, it will be opened.
SPEAKER_02: If a son asks for bread from his father among you, will he give him a stone?
SPEAKER_02: Or if he asks for fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish?
SPEAKER_02: Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
SPEAKER_02: Now, we often use that in reference to prayer, and that makes sense because the Lord's prayer precedes this.
SPEAKER_02: So that is the context.
SPEAKER_02: But sometimes we don't read the whole thing.
SPEAKER_02: And so here's the last part of what Jesus says in the same sermon as he's speaking.
SPEAKER_02: He says in verse 13, if you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
SPEAKER_02: And that's really interesting.
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not teaching Mark is, but I want to set up Mark to say, I've always believed you can have as much of the Holy Spirit as you want.
SPEAKER_02: And the Holy Spirit is poured out when he gets more of you, not you getting more of him.
SPEAKER_02: You who know Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you've got the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02: You have him.
SPEAKER_02: But what he's referencing is there's times in our life where you've got to ask, you've got to seek, you've got to knock, and sometimes you even have to beg for more of God's power in your life.
SPEAKER_02: It might be a need for healing, it might be a need for wisdom, it might be a need to know whether you should marry that person or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_02: He loves that.
SPEAKER_02: God loves beggars.
SPEAKER_02: God loves seekers.
SPEAKER_02: And so he's saying to us today, this morning, 2026, second Sunday in 2026, how much of my anointing, how much of my power, how much of my love, how much of my peace do you want to have?
SPEAKER_02: And that's why we invited Mark here.
SPEAKER_02: Is that he's going to lay the groundwork of this, the two gifts of healing and faith and how they work together.
SPEAKER_02: And then we're going to invite any of you that want prayer to come up.
SPEAKER_02: And we had a long session of prayer yesterday.
SPEAKER_02: You know, all across the altar here, we had so many people for an hour, hour and a half getting prayer because they were hungry.
SPEAKER_02: Some of you might be out there again.
SPEAKER_02: So come.
SPEAKER_02: If you want to give more of yourself to the Lord, and if you want more of the Lord's power in your life, seek it.
SPEAKER_02: Go for it.
SPEAKER_02: Right?
SPEAKER_02: Man, you guys are really, really quiet this morning.
SPEAKER_02: There is coffee in the lobby?
SPEAKER_02: All right, so Mark DeSantis is here with us, and he has a ministry that he started a few years ago, and it's called United Saints.
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
SPEAKER_02: United Saints.
SPEAKER_02: And his desire is to bring unity to the body of Christ through ministry of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02: So that through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, through signs and wonders, through miracles, through the works of who?
SPEAKER_02: Jesus in our churches.
SPEAKER_02: It would unite us.
SPEAKER_02: And so we're honored to have Mark here.
SPEAKER_02: He's from Brazil.
SPEAKER_02: He, his first language is not English.
SPEAKER_02: Alright?
SPEAKER_02: So he's gonna, he's not gonna speak with someone who's fluent in English in the same way that we are, but he's married a girl from North Carolina.
SPEAKER_02: And when I heard that, I went, man, this guy's got it both ways, man.
SPEAKER_02: He's got the anointing, and he's got a great wife.
SPEAKER_02: That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02: For you that don't know why I'm saying that, I my roots on my dad's side is all North Carolina.
SPEAKER_02: So we were talking about that today.
SPEAKER_02: So, Mark, come on up.
SPEAKER_02: We welcome you.
SPEAKER_02: We love you.
SPEAKER_02: We're glad you're here.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me just, I'm gonna set the stage on another thing with Mark, is that he speaks my kind of language as it relates to the power and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, in that he's not saying that that everything is gonna work out in a formula.
SPEAKER_02: He believes in letting the Holy Spirit move, and sometimes we don't understand.
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we don't understand how he works.
SPEAKER_02: And so that makes some people uncomfortable, it makes other people comfortable.
SPEAKER_02: So that's who we are, you guys.
SPEAKER_02: We're a word and spirit church.
SPEAKER_02: So, Father, I just pray right now for my brother Mark that he'd be filled with the Holy Spirit, that he would enjoy himself up here, and that he would um he would know.
SPEAKER_02: He would know what you're saying for him to do for this group, for the road.
SPEAKER_02: In your name we pray.
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
SPEAKER_02: Bless you, brother.
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, brother.
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00: Good morning, everyone.
unknown: Good morning.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, first of all, it's an honor for me to be here.
SPEAKER_00: You know, thank you for Pastor Steve and the whole church and the excellence and how they do everything.
SPEAKER_00: And it's just an honor to be with you, my brothers and sisters in Christ.
SPEAKER_00: And in this season of my life, there's nothing more that I want in my heart that it's seeing my brothers and sisters fully in love with Jesus, like burning for Jesus and being fully equipped to fulfill the max potential of their creation destiny.
SPEAKER_00: That's so you know, my goal is to raise others ups and that together we expand his kingdom as much as possible before he returns.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So today we're gonna have it's it's like a quipping session on the gift of healing, and we're gonna go through biblical basis because I believe that this gift is for all saints and all disciples, not just for a certain special person that performed so much and earned.
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe in that.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: But before I get started, I wanted to ask, can you please put your hands up if you were here yesterday for the conference?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00: Now, can you put your hand up?
SPEAKER_00: Because somebody already came to talk to me uh during worship.
SPEAKER_00: If you actually received healing yesterday, can you put your hand high up so we can see?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, look around the room, guys.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: And depending on time, we're gonna jump into some testimonies also.
SPEAKER_00: And that this healings, there was two forms that we prayed.
SPEAKER_00: You know, we had a corporate prayer from the author, because you know, we're gonna talk about this, but even what's registered in the four gospels, there is more healings registered without the laying of hands than actually with the laying of hands.
SPEAKER_00: But of course, you know, there's some ambiguous passage that said, and Jesus, you know, ministered and healed them all, and then John says that if they would catalog everything that he did, you know, the books in the world would not be able to contain it, right?
SPEAKER_00: But just from what is registered, so I just want to increase your faith because I believe, you know, what you believe is what you sow, and what you sow is what you reap.
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you don't have any faith to receive a healing, because you don't really believe of that, it that's almost self-declared prophecy.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: But then there's some people they have that faith for the laying of hands, but not so much without.
SPEAKER_00: You know, for me in general, it's that mystery of the level of faith, of personal level, corporate level, but then there's also the sovereignty of God, right?
SPEAKER_00: So there's no formula.
SPEAKER_00: So just because of that, we're gonna talk about healing, we're gonna equip a guys on healing, and especially for physical healing.
SPEAKER_00: What we try to do to measure what the Holy Spirit is doing is we use kind of like a physiotherapy uh scale that goes zero to ten.
SPEAKER_00: Zero, you know, you don't have any pain on your body, and ten is like you need a physical healing, and it hurts so bad that you need morphine.
SPEAKER_00: It takes me to the ER.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just curious to see what the Holy Spirit is already doing here in the room.
SPEAKER_00: So, right now, if you need some physical healing, can you please just stand up quickly?
SPEAKER_00: And I want you to measure how much pain that you have right now, okay?
SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna measure, then we're gonna pray, and then we're gonna see what Jesus is doing, and then we're gonna check out again.
SPEAKER_00: And then if there's, you know, sometimes we're gonna talk about this, there's immediately a hundred percent healing, but sometimes the healing is progressive.
SPEAKER_00: Because there's difference of a miraculous healing and healing.
SPEAKER_00: You know, miraculous healing is when you need a creative miracle.
SPEAKER_00: For example, Parkinson, you need cells that are non-existent to appear.
SPEAKER_00: That's a miracle.
SPEAKER_00: But now in the normal healing, what happens is a super acceleration of a natural process, right?
SPEAKER_00: It's just that super acceleration of something, usually your body was gonna fix itself.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: And I want to establish something from the right now, so we're all on the same page.
SPEAKER_00: You know, apart from the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, I'm only dust.
SPEAKER_00: All the glory is Jesus and Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with me, it's his spirit that's in us and is available for all of us.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so please check your body, make sure you see, you know, if it's your neck, how is mobility, how much is hurting, or my knee, your back, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00: Check.
SPEAKER_00: And then the next thing I'm gonna do is just an act of act of faith.
SPEAKER_00: You put your hands up like this, you just close your eyes, put your eyes on Jesus, and I'm gonna do a prayer and we're gonna check, okay?
SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Father, Holy Spirit, thank you, Jesus, for everybody that's here, Lord.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you that you're the same yesterday, today, and forever.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you that healing ministries, it's it's a part of proof of your love.
SPEAKER_00: Because the main proof of your love is the cross, but a healing ministry is a demonstration of your love.
SPEAKER_00: And instead, when Jesus healed people, it was because he was moved by compassion.
SPEAKER_00: So, Lord, in the name of Jesus, I commend full healing in everybody that's here right now.
SPEAKER_00: All pain begun, alignment of bones, cartilage, just be healed in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now do me a favor again, start checking your body.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, if it's your back, maybe you try to do like usually you know when Jesus says to somebody get up and walk, is that's what I usually say.
SPEAKER_00: They're just in the lane there to try to move their little toe.
SPEAKER_00: You know, so really try to do something.
SPEAKER_00: And if you see, if you feel there's a substantial breakthrough, like 80% or better, just put your hands up so we can glorify Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Keep check and see a hand back there.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Lord.
SPEAKER_00: Another one right there.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you, Lord.
SPEAKER_00: Let's just clap for what God has done, okay?
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: All right, so now you you can have a seat, please, and we're gonna, if you can turn your Bibles with me, I wanna go first to the biblical basis for healing, okay?
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I met Pastor Steven, great guy, and it's interesting how we have a lot of similarities, even as far as like our personal mentors.
SPEAKER_00: Now, my personal mentor, uh, his name is Dr.
SPEAKER_00: Randy Clark, and his spiritual father was John Wimber, which is the spiritual father of Pastor Steve.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: So, for the purpose of teachings, I actually I'm trying to follow you know the the John Wimber aspects of things because I think it's just you know, he was he was great, he was a pioneer in in this, okay.
SPEAKER_00: So before we start with scripture, John Wimber taught that healing happens because the kingdom of God is already present but not yet fully consummated.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the kingdom of God is now and not yet.
SPEAKER_00: So Jesus inaugurated the kingdom, healing is a sign of that kingdom.
SPEAKER_00: Not everyone is healed yet, because the kingdom is partial and not complete.
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the explanation.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
SPEAKER_00: Why some people you know they get fully healing, the others don't.
SPEAKER_00: And it because the word of God says that you know the first manifestation to in Exodus is I am the God who heals you.
SPEAKER_00: And the Bible says that his love for us, you know, he equally loves all of us.
SPEAKER_00: We're all uniquely created, irreplaceable.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So let's open our Bibles on, and I'm gonna give three scriptures, and that's the biblical foundation why healing is still for today.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: First one, we go to Isaiah 53, verses 4 and 5.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I'm gonna start reading here, and it's interesting because even in the mystery that's inside of the healing ministry, you know, what the word says is like we received the healing already, but then the kingdom of God is now and not yet.
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times what I like to teach is like we gotta make sure that we stay in that middle path because as humans, not just with Christianity, but with everything else, we have this tendency that goes all the way this or all the way that.
SPEAKER_00: You know, like the church back in the day, it was only like fear of the Lord, and then some churches swing all the way to oh, it's only grace, and then there's no holiness and sanctification.
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, black or white, and the word of God, there's all these mysteries in all different areas.
SPEAKER_00: We gotta make sure we follow the middle way, even about the Christian life.
SPEAKER_00: You know, the word of God is super important, but the Holy Spirit needs power, super pointer.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just one or the other.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So let's hear, uh, read here.
SPEAKER_00: So surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering.
SPEAKER_00: Yet we consider him punishment, uh punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
SPEAKER_00: But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities.
SPEAKER_00: The punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
SPEAKER_00: So pay attention that it doesn't say by his wounds we will be healed.
SPEAKER_00: It says by his wounds we are healed.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so part of this healing ministry is we get rid of unbelief, okay, and we start believing what God says because I know for sure God's not a liar.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: The problem of unbelief, in my opinion, is pride.
SPEAKER_00: Pride is part of pride is the need of control, part of control is the need to know.
SPEAKER_00: Ah, if I don't know, I don't believe.
SPEAKER_00: That's not the Christian life.
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're supposed to live on the upside down, we're supposed to live in full trust because he created us, because he's a good, loving God that we can trust and have faith and just do what he says because he knows what's best, not us.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So you can claim your sovereign healing with faith and belief in this passage.
SPEAKER_00: What I like about that for the healing ministry is it puts your dependence 100% on God.
SPEAKER_00: It's not like, oh, when I find that person that's anointed, they'll pray for me and I'll be healed.
SPEAKER_00: This creates dependence, right?
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the more we're dependent with God, there is more also intimacy and more breakthrough in your life.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: The next one, if you want, you can turn there.
SPEAKER_00: I don't really think you need because I'm gonna read two sentences of it.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's Acts 9:10.
SPEAKER_00: In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias, and the Lord called to him in a vision, Ananias.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, Lord, he answered.
SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you reading that?
SPEAKER_00: Because you know, inside Christianity, you have three different lines of beliefs.
SPEAKER_00: You have liberals, they don't think that anything that happens here is supernatural.
SPEAKER_00: No miracles happen.
SPEAKER_00: They create worldly explanations.
SPEAKER_00: You know, for example, one I heard is like when Jesus multiplied the food, they will say, like, well, they have a cave nearby, and the baskets of breads were there, and they started bringing out so that type of mind, they don't believe in anything that's supernatural from the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: That's liberal, okay?
SPEAKER_00: Then you have sensationists.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for example, and and I'm for all denominations, right?
SPEAKER_00: United Saints, Jesus the head, we're the body.
SPEAKER_00: When you attack someone else of the body, you're attacking yourself, amen.
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, traditional Baptists, no, that's one.
SPEAKER_00: You know, they believe that everything, the power of the Holy Spirit moving through believers, ended when you know the church was established and the apostles died.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but pay attention.
SPEAKER_00: In this moment, God called Ananias for what?
SPEAKER_00: To go meet Saul, that turned Paul, to pray for healing, right?
SPEAKER_00: Because he was blind, and to fill him with the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: So that just shows how God does things.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Jesus himself appears to Paul and makes him blind and all of that.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus could have appeared to Paul again and just done all of that, but no, he decided to do things with us because God wants to partner with us.
SPEAKER_00: But who did he choose?
SPEAKER_00: Was it an apostle?
SPEAKER_00: The word here says Ananias was a disciple.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, all of you are disciples.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's the biblical basis for that.
SPEAKER_00: That all of this is for any disciples.
SPEAKER_00: I will tell you this: if you're only Christian, okay, who is a disciple?
SPEAKER_00: A disciple is somebody that's truly following Jesus, trying to live in surrender for God.
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's gonna be perfect, right?
SPEAKER_00: First John says we're all sinners, but I believe a true disciple is somebody that's humble, that is trying to be submitted to the Lord, that's trying to be of service, like how Jesus was, and it's somebody that knows that they're not perfect, and they're just quick to repent.
SPEAKER_00: That's what I personally believe, what a disciple is, and it's something like so simple, you know, that it goes against what a pride, guys.
SPEAKER_00: You know, like Lucifer was the first thing he felt because of pride.
SPEAKER_00: I believe the main attack in general in humanity is pride, is the biggest issue.
SPEAKER_00: Because even when you have other issues that's lust, greed, or whatever, a lot of times it cannot get fixed because you have pride and you don't ask people for help.
SPEAKER_00: And you're living a double life.
SPEAKER_00: And there's you know, uh Paul said if I wanted approval of men, I would never.
SPEAKER_00: Been Christian.
SPEAKER_00: So we gotta really rethink our Christian life.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So Ananias was a disciple, not an apostle.
SPEAKER_00: The healing ministry is part of being a witness to God.
SPEAKER_00: And I also believe that as soon as you give your life to Jesus, you are in ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: Ministry is not just somebody a pastor at a church.
SPEAKER_00: Paul says that the job of the church is to equip the saints for the work of ministry.
SPEAKER_00: So who is gonna change the work?
SPEAKER_00: The world.
SPEAKER_00: It's you.
SPEAKER_00: Not Pastor Steve here from the pulpit.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why you guys need to be equipped.
SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to get back to the creation of the church.
SPEAKER_00: What was the purpose of the creator of the church?
SPEAKER_00: Just get equipped on fire with power and go save souls and expand his kingdom.
SPEAKER_00: It's that simple.
SPEAKER_00: And I also believe that because of pride and unbelief, the leadership of the church turned into deep theology.
SPEAKER_00: You know?
SPEAKER_00: And I ask, how how practical is all this theology?
SPEAKER_00: You have all this crazy wisdom.
SPEAKER_00: How is that changing anything for Jesus and the world out there?
SPEAKER_00: I'm not against theology.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I teach at a seminary in Brazil.
SPEAKER_00: Just to be sure, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Everything's important, but I feel like we just gotta get back to basics.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So turning to Mark 16.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna read 17, 18.
SPEAKER_00: Just to establish to you guys, everything I'm telling to you, it goes right back to me.
SPEAKER_00: I'm not perfect by any means.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I like to think of myself as a little baby that's still wearing diapers.
SPEAKER_00: And my goal is just to hold Jesus' hand and just try to learn how to walk, amen?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and many of you maybe know this passage, and that's the great commission.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's not the great suggestion, it's the great commission, okay?
SPEAKER_00: And it says, and these signs will accompany those who believe.
SPEAKER_00: If you don't believe, this will not accompany you, okay?
SPEAKER_00: In my name, they'll drive out demons, they'll speak in new tongues, they'll pick up snakes with their hands, and when they drink deadly pause, you'll not hurt them at all, they'll place their hands on sick people and they'll get well.
SPEAKER_00: So we're called to be witness of what at least what Jesus has done for us, and he has given us the power of the Holy Spirit to fulfill that mission.
SPEAKER_00: And that was one thing that we talked about yesterday.
SPEAKER_00: You know, Holy Spirit coming and dwell in you at salvation.
SPEAKER_00: And I did this is my opinion, okay?
SPEAKER_00: I don't I think the only way you can lose your salvation really is to like you renounce Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Like you renounce him.
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not God anymore.
SPEAKER_00: I renounce it.
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that you died on the cross and you resurrected, and you're not my Lord and Savior.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe you can lose your salvation like that.
SPEAKER_00: That's my opinion, okay?
SPEAKER_00: But uh the word of God says the Holy Spirit come on you with power, it's always related to mission.
SPEAKER_00: It's because you're gonna do something.
SPEAKER_00: There's this evangelist, he used to say this there is no anointed couch potato.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, God is the best creator investor.
SPEAKER_00: Do you think he's you know he's not gonna waste his power for nothing?
SPEAKER_00: So you want more power of your you know in your life, you just just just start at least doing something.
SPEAKER_00: You know, when I started, I received power, I was like, what can I do with this?
SPEAKER_00: And I just started doing street evangelism because I didn't have any open doors anywhere to speak to crowds or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00: And they like the pair of talents.
SPEAKER_00: You know, you go through your testings, he sees what you're stewarded, what you got.
SPEAKER_00: He's like the kingdom is about multiplication.
SPEAKER_00: So he wants you to multiply whatever you have in your hands right now.
SPEAKER_00: What do I have on my hands right now?
SPEAKER_00: How can I multiply this?
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So, this was the biblical scripture.
SPEAKER_00: So, John Wimber, he taught some healings are instant, some are partial, some are progressive, some don't happen yet.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, he also normalized praying multiple times.
SPEAKER_00: And even Jesus, there's a scripture, he prayed for a blind guy, and he asked the guy, so what are you seeing?
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, I see people moving kind of like trees.
SPEAKER_00: So, what did Jesus do?
SPEAKER_00: He prayed for that person again, and then that person was healed, right?
SPEAKER_00: So, even Jesus himself, like is is here that he prayed twice for someone.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Now let's talk about a little bit the gift of faith.
SPEAKER_00: You know, in in 1 Corinthians 12, they list nine gifts.
SPEAKER_00: I also believe there's other gifts, and these gifts usually they divide in three categories.
SPEAKER_00: There's like gifts of revelation, words of wisdom, words of knowledge, and the gifts of discernment.
SPEAKER_00: Then you have gifts of power, which is uh the gift of faith, uh, the gift of signs and wonders, and the gift of healing, and then you have the categories of utterance, which is the gifts of tongues, the gifts of interpreting tongues, and prophecy.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: And I believe that these gifts they can work all together, even for the healing, but there's a pattern of seeing some more of them working together when it comes for healing ministry.
SPEAKER_00: I also want to say that healing, emotional healing, deliverance, they walk hand in hand.
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of times it's very hard for somebody to be holy because they are not whole.
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times, it could be because of generational things or because of traumas, we create unbeliefs in our mind, giving agreement to the enemy.
SPEAKER_00: And every time that you have, you know, God make you you're a son and daughter, right?
SPEAKER_00: You are not a slave.
SPEAKER_00: Even though he knows what's best for you, you still have free will.
SPEAKER_00: Through your free will, when you choose to believe something that goes against what he says, you're believing the enemy, and a lot of times, because of that, not always, that's how you open doors for the enemy to attack you.
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times people wonder why my guardian angel is not protecting me of this, or why God is not protecting me of that.
SPEAKER_00: And then I ask you, how is your life?
SPEAKER_00: What are you truly believing?
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you know you are giving access to these things to get to you, and that's not just because of sin, that's also just things that you believe.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: So, gift of faith.
SPEAKER_00: John Wimber taught that the gift of faith is a temporary spirit-giving confidence that God is about to act in a specific situation, receiving through humility and obedience, not generated by human effort.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: And he emphasized that this is this is not saving faith, not long-term character faith, not optimism or positive thinking.
SPEAKER_00: It's a specific supernatural confidence given by the Holy Spirit for a particular moment or situation.
SPEAKER_00: It's a God-giving certainty that God is about to do something now.
SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like a sundant increase of confidence, strong inner knowing, peace replacing certainty, boldness without striving, not hype or not adrenaline.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: And then he warned if you have to work it up, it was probably not the gift of faith.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and you know, praise the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: I have a few experiences with the gift of faith, and I wish that gift would be like a normalcy.
SPEAKER_00: But when the gift of faith comes upon you, and I had in healing ministry, sometimes in another circumstance, faith is a hundred percent certainty.
SPEAKER_00: The opposite of that is doubt.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so God is certainty, devil is doubt when it comes aligned to the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: And when the gift of faith, you know, it was like before praying for somebody, when that gift of faith comes on you, you have like you know that you know that you know that that person is getting healed instantly, and and actually you do like a biblical prayer more like Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: You know, when that gift came on me, I was just like, okay, be healed in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_00: And that person was just healed like that.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Generally in healing ministries, this is not your accuse or anything.
SPEAKER_00: The longer somebody prayers is kind of shows where they're at on the faith and on the you know, because Jesus was like, be healed, come on, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Tuesday's days.
SPEAKER_00: I also do longer prayers, you know.
SPEAKER_00: The first miracle healing I saw in my life, somebody getting out of a wheelchair, it was a 45-minute long prayer.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I know testimonies of people that prayed for somebody for five hours.
SPEAKER_00: There's ministry, not formula.
SPEAKER_00: But I don't know about you.
SPEAKER_00: I I I'm trying to be like Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I want to have his faith.
SPEAKER_00: And I personally don't want to be praying for somebody for one hour, okay?
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna be honest.
SPEAKER_00: So, Lord, help my unbelief.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's gift of faith.
SPEAKER_00: And remember, you know, gift of faith a lot of times goes with the gift of signs and wonders.
SPEAKER_00: It's not just for healing, not just for profit.
SPEAKER_00: We need to remember Moses, right?
SPEAKER_00: So God said, God created everything, created us, and he told us, take dominion over the earth.
SPEAKER_00: So everything around that you see comes from the earth.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: This building that got rocks from the earth, and so signs and wonders.
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about Moses kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00: Or for example, your car broke down and you just commanded to be fixed and get fixed because you have dominion over the earth, and that car is made with parts of the earth.
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be honest with you, you know, being ministry and all of that, that is clearly the testimony you do hear the least.
SPEAKER_00: For some reason, you hear a lot of them in the most crazy, remote, darkest place of the earth, you know, like Saudi Arabia or a little corner somewhere in Africa and things like that.
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that's a God issue.
SPEAKER_00: I believe it's our unbelief kind of issue.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's my opinion, including me.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: The next gift I want to talk about that it pairs up and goes together with healing, it's it's words of knowledge.
SPEAKER_00: And what is a word of knowledge?
SPEAKER_00: A word of knowledge is a supernatural revelation of information received by the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: It's knowledge received independently of a natural analysis or human means.
SPEAKER_00: Yesterday, uh we did some words of knowledge from the stage, and we're gonna do in ministry today.
SPEAKER_00: There's many ways you can receive a word of knowledge.
SPEAKER_00: For me, the main way I receive is I feel pain in my body that's not mine.
SPEAKER_00: You know, we talk about the scale zero to ten.
SPEAKER_00: Praise the Lord, I don't have any pain on my body even right now.
SPEAKER_00: And it could be at church, it could be when I'm at Marshall's or groceries, suddenly somebody's around, or I just start getting a pain level, eight or nine, in a part of my body.
SPEAKER_00: You know?
SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, okay, God wants to heal somebody, and I I try, I ask discernment, who is it, Lord?
SPEAKER_00: Because somebody can be a lot of people, you know, especially if you're on the streets, and then I come to these parents and they say it's not me.
SPEAKER_00: I say, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's great to get it wrong, there's no losing.
SPEAKER_00: When you get it right, he is glorified.
SPEAKER_00: When you get it wrong, it works on your humility.
SPEAKER_00: And we are to be humble like Jesus, so there is no losing.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So that's one of the ways, one of the ways feelings, but there's people that they can see, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Some people have like amazing, seer, prophetic gifts.
SPEAKER_00: I don't have that.
SPEAKER_00: They can see spiritual things as real as physical things, and God can show like that.
SPEAKER_00: Some people can see mental things, like testimonies of I'm looking at somebody, and simultaneously they're seeing their mind, for example, a heart above their head.
SPEAKER_00: And they go to the person, it's like, Do you have heart issues?
SPEAKER_00: And they'll be like, Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, so seeing is one.
SPEAKER_00: People have read things in the same manner on people, so reading is another one.
SPEAKER_00: Thinking, and sometimes a thought just comes on your head, as Holy Spirit taught, and sometimes God will really test your faith, and He'll give you just a little smidge thing to see if you can take a step of faith.
SPEAKER_00: I will tell you this, guys, the biggest miracles I've seen in my life, there is a pattern about you know, faith.
SPEAKER_00: My mentor he says faith, it's spelled R-I-S-K, risk.
SPEAKER_00: Because if you believe, you're gonna risk.
SPEAKER_00: If you don't believe, you're not gonna risk.
SPEAKER_00: And usually your the miracles are on the other side of risk.
SPEAKER_00: And every time that you are to risk, what happens?
SPEAKER_00: The spirit of fear comes to attack you.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so fear is a spirit, it's a demonic spirit, and God has not given you a spirit of fear, but of you know, love, power, and a sound mind.
SPEAKER_00: So the biggest miracles I've seen, it's when I just had to take great leaps of faith, and if God didn't show up, it was gonna be really bad.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I want to encourage you to take those risks.
SPEAKER_00: Another way of having a word of knowledge is speaking.
SPEAKER_00: I have a friend of mine, he was he's doing street evangelism, stop somebody.
SPEAKER_00: Can I pray for you?
SPEAKER_00: And he prayed for this lady, whatever he thought he was praying, and when he was done, she was amazed.
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Why are you amazed?
SPEAKER_00: Uh how did you know the two names of my daughter?
SPEAKER_00: He's like, I don't know the names of your daughter.
SPEAKER_00: So apparently the Holy Spirit just took over his mouth, and it's and it's things that just burst out of your mouth.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: Be careful because sometimes the enemy can also burst things out of your mouth.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Make sure it's the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: The next one is dreaming, and then you know, uh there's also visions.
SPEAKER_00: Some people have visions when they're awake.
SPEAKER_00: I never had that, but the past year started having a lot of visions, sleeping, and visions is almost like God just put this home theater, movie theater screen in front of you, and you're just watching whatever he's gonna tell you.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have some missionary friends that went to Nepal, and before they were going, just God just showed everything in a dream.
SPEAKER_00: They were gonna get to this place, then they're gonna climb this, and then there's gonna be this little hut somewhere, and you're gonna get in.
SPEAKER_00: There's this woman, she's kind of has some demons and she needs healing, and you're gonna pray for her.
SPEAKER_00: You know, him and his wife, his wife separately had the same dream.
SPEAKER_00: When they got there, everything happened 100% the same.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're gonna do when we come uh back for ministry.
SPEAKER_00: We're also gonna share some words of knowledge uh for healing.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, something else important on the healing ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me just cover this because we're trying to equip you guys.
SPEAKER_00: Like I always say, there's no formula.
SPEAKER_00: But John Winberg, he kind of created something that's called the five-step prayer model, and he believes that it was a really good model if you were a beginner pursuing these gifts of healing, because people started seeing a lot of breakthroughs on it, and he based on some patterns that he saw in scripture.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if you're gonna pray for somebody, the first thing is kind of like even Jesus would do that, you interview that person.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I don't know if you want to write this down or not.
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure Pastor Steve has this model too.
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, first thing you interview the person.
SPEAKER_00: No, Jesus not always, but he also interviewed people.
SPEAKER_00: You know, how can I pray for you?
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
SPEAKER_00: What's the issue?
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's number one, interview.
SPEAKER_00: Number two is diagnostics, okay?
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times, even a physical issue, it could have a different root cause.
SPEAKER_00: Is it trauma?
SPEAKER_00: Is it because of emotional healing?
SPEAKER_00: Is it because of demonic oppression?
SPEAKER_00: So, your job on the second step is after you heard everything they had to say, you stop and you ask the Holy Spirit, what's the diagnostic here?
SPEAKER_00: Is this just something purely physical or what?
SPEAKER_00: And you know, the Holy Spirit's gonna guide you.
SPEAKER_00: And even though I'm giving you this five-step prayer model, guys, there's no formula, you always do what God tells you to do.
SPEAKER_00: If you go pray for somebody and the Holy Spirit tells you, you know, do 10 jump jacks and then smile at them.
SPEAKER_00: It's like that's what you gotta do.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm I'm serious.
SPEAKER_00: He loves breaking the religious spirit.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: When Jesus came, who did he choose?
SPEAKER_00: Disqualified fishermen, the most disqualified people, the super qualified religious, I know it because I've done this so long.
SPEAKER_00: He just rebuked them all the time.
SPEAKER_00: He would call them your hypocrites all the time.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: So God loves breaking the religion of men because he didn't create religion, he wanted sons and daughters to have a close relationship.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So always do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do.
SPEAKER_00: So then you got that diagnostics.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is how I'm gonna pray.
SPEAKER_00: The third step is praying for effect.
SPEAKER_00: Now there's different types of prayer biblically.
SPEAKER_00: You have petition prayer, supplication prayers, but when you are praying for somebody, you have to use commanding prayers, right?
SPEAKER_00: Because Jesus said it was better for me to go that I would send you the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like I'm commending God.
SPEAKER_00: You know that you are royalty, you're a son or daughter of the Most High, the Holy Spirit is in you.
SPEAKER_00: It's the same spirit that helped creation of the king of the universe.
SPEAKER_00: That spirit is in you, and God has given you the authority to do this.
SPEAKER_00: So you gotta make sure you're doing commanding prayers.
SPEAKER_00: Don't put your hand on somebody and be like, Oh God, please, please, please, can you do this?
SPEAKER_00: Can you do that?
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I feel God is like, What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00: I already told you already can do this.
SPEAKER_00: Why are you saying that?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm not against those types of prayers.
SPEAKER_00: Just do all types of prayers.
SPEAKER_00: All I'm saying is use commanding prayer because that's how Jesus did.
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to be like Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So, an example of commanding prayer.
SPEAKER_00: Um, in Jesus' name, I command the inflammation of John's knee to be healed and all that swelling pain to leave.
SPEAKER_00: You're commending.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: It's very good sometimes to, because of our lack of faith, right?
SPEAKER_00: Ideally, just be healed in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_00: But it's good to pray with intentionality, right?
SPEAKER_00: You're if you're praying for a knee, you know what's on a knee?
SPEAKER_00: That could be inflammation, there are tendons, their bones, their cartilage.
SPEAKER_00: You started being like this little amateur doctor in a way, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And then a lot of times, a lot of times I'm like, I have no idea what this is, I'm not a doctor, but I know God's know, so we're just gonna commend healing in the name of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So number so, number one, interview.
SPEAKER_00: Number two, diagnostics, number three, pray for effect.
SPEAKER_00: Number four is you stop and you re-interview the person.
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times when you're doing prayer, this is not a formula.
SPEAKER_00: There's two things happen.
SPEAKER_00: People actually will feel a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: Some people start feeling heat, some people feel tingling, some people start crying, some people start laughing.
SPEAKER_00: It's very important to tell the person if they actually are feeling something when you're praying, because that also increases your faith that God is doing something.
SPEAKER_00: Do they need to feel anything to be healed?
SPEAKER_00: The answer is no.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: So you stop.
SPEAKER_00: Reinterview to see if there's any breakthrough.
SPEAKER_00: Because you know, sometimes they get healed immediately, sometimes nothing ever happened.
SPEAKER_00: Or wow, okay, yeah, there's some breakthrough.
SPEAKER_00: The pain went a little bit down, you know, and you use that scale that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00: And then you you can you always keep praying until there's a breakthrough.
SPEAKER_00: And then if breakthroughs stop, you ask the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: Holy Spirit, how long do I keep praying?
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then number five is the post-prayer.
SPEAKER_00: That's when you're gonna put your pastoral head and guide that person.
SPEAKER_00: You know, how is your life?
SPEAKER_00: Are we you in sync, company, and you're just gonna give a regular pastoral Christian advice because you know, if if this the people don't have the Romans 12, 2 mindset of continue transformation or mind to be like uh obedience to Christ, and they don't change their ways, these things might come back.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus, a lot of time he said things can come back worse right after he healed people.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so interview the diagnostics, pray for effect with commanding prayers, check up, see if you continue to pray or not.
SPEAKER_00: And number five is pastoral care.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I hope now you guys are actually equipped.
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna go out there and risk, and you're gonna be surprised how much you're gonna see Jesus do it.
SPEAKER_00: And once you taste it, you can stop.
SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is try.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that was good equipment and blessing.
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna worship now, and then we're gonna have a moment of ministry.
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
SPEAKER_00: God bless you guys.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Road Church Podcast.
SPEAKER_01: We pray today's message has empowered you to make a difference in your world.
SPEAKER_01: For more information about The Road Church and to find more content like this, go to theroad.org.
SPEAKER_01: That's theroad.org.