SPEAKER_00: You're listening to the road with Pastor Teacher Steve Holt.
SPEAKER_01: Unless we cultivate a passion for Jesus that's greater and deeper than a passion for lust, and a passion for anger, and a passion for impatience, and a passion for ourselves is not going to change.
SPEAKER_01: You will not change.
SPEAKER_01: You will not change unless your passion for the Lord, your passion for Christ, and a love relationship with him is greater than your luck.
SPEAKER_01: And greater than your anger, and greater than your bitterness, you will not change.
SPEAKER_00: At The Road, our mission is to empower people to change the world.
SPEAKER_00: For more information on The Road, visit theroad.org.
SPEAKER_00: We hope you are encouraged by today's message from Pastor Teacher Steve Holt.
SPEAKER_01: We are going through the Sermon on the Mount.
SPEAKER_01: And you that are guests with us, we've been going through the Sermon on the Mount for actually several months, and we come to this one spot in the Sermon on the Mount that's almost like Proverbs.
SPEAKER_01: How many of you read Proverbs semi-regularly?
SPEAKER_01: Maybe read a proverb a day.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's what Liz and I do first thing in the morning.
SPEAKER_01: When we wake up in the morning, we wake up together, and actually it's not the first thing we do.
SPEAKER_01: The first thing we do is we take uh Major Dickison's blend of Peeps coffee and uh and we churn up those beans and then we put it in the French press because we can't pray until we've had coffee.
SPEAKER_01: But when we pray, we always start with a proverb.
SPEAKER_01: So today's the third, so we did Proverbs 3 today, which is one of the most powerful Proverbs in the Bible.
SPEAKER_01: But the Sermon on the Mount at this point in our journey in Matthew 5, latter part of Matthew 5, almost reads like Proverbs.
SPEAKER_01: And for you that were with us a few weeks ago, we talked about Jesus saying that he did not come to abolish the law or the Bible, but he came to fulfill it.
SPEAKER_01: And so the Pharisees at that time had developed an intricate system of religious laws to help people.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, their hearts were right.
SPEAKER_01: If it says, do not kill, then what exactly does that mean?
SPEAKER_01: If it says, keep the Sabbath holy, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_01: And so they had developed some elaborate laws to help people fulfill the law.
SPEAKER_01: So they had added to the laws.
SPEAKER_01: Paul's the one who told us that he came, that the law was given as a tutor to lead us to Christ.
SPEAKER_01: In other words, we were never conditioned by God in our own flesh to be able to fulfill the law, except through the power of Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit in our life.
SPEAKER_01: And so Jesus is now redefining, as he says, in each of these kind of proverbs that he gives us, that you have heard it said this, but let me tell you, it's more like that.
SPEAKER_01: And what Jesus speaks to is the heart.
SPEAKER_01: Because he's a heart revolutionary.
SPEAKER_01: He's an activist of the heart.
SPEAKER_01: I like to think of Jesus as an activist of the heart.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus is more interested in your heart than your outward behavior.
SPEAKER_01: Now he's interested in our outward behavior.
SPEAKER_01: Of course he is.
SPEAKER_01: But the only way we change from the outside is a change from the inside.
SPEAKER_01: And what the law taught was that you change the inside by changing the outside, and so he's challenging that system.
SPEAKER_01: That it's the direction of our heart, not necessarily the outward moral behavior that makes us the person that can follow Christ and seek the kingdom first in our life.
SPEAKER_01: So turn in your Bibles to Matthew chapter 5.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm calling this the title I'm giving this today and putting this together is that love is the gold standard of the kingdom of God.
SPEAKER_01: Love is the gold standard of the kingdom of God.
SPEAKER_01: And here's my thesis.
SPEAKER_01: My thesis is this.
SPEAKER_01: Unless we cultivate a passion for Jesus that's greater and deeper than a passion for lust, and a passion for anger, and a passion for impatience, and a passion for ourselves, you're not going to change.
SPEAKER_01: You will not change.
SPEAKER_01: You will not change unless your passion for the Lord, your passion for Christ, and a love relationship with Him is greater than your lust, and greater than your anger, and greater than your bitterness, you will not change.
SPEAKER_01: But if you develop a passion for Jesus from the heart, seeking the kingdom, worshiping Him and loving Him, and that's why we're here today.
SPEAKER_01: That's why you're here today.
SPEAKER_01: Is to impassion, to equip, and to energize and empower us to make a difference in our own heart so that what happens as we begin to passionately go after God, the lust begins to drop off.
SPEAKER_01: The anger begins to drop off because God's transforming us from the inside out.
SPEAKER_01: So he begins to talk about some of these areas that we struggle with.
SPEAKER_01: Look at verse 33.
SPEAKER_01: We talked about marriage last week.
SPEAKER_01: He now moves to oaths.
SPEAKER_01: Again, you've heard that it was said to those of old, Matthew 5, 33, you shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: But I say to you, do not swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is God's throne, nor by the earth, for it is his footstool, nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king.
SPEAKER_01: Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
SPEAKER_01: But let your yes be yes and your no no, for whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
SPEAKER_01: Basically he's saying, because of the way the Pharisees had set things up, that there are higher and lower level oaths that you could make.
SPEAKER_01: And he's saying, forget that.
SPEAKER_01: Forget this higher and lower oaths, whether it be to the city of Jerusalem or to heaven or to earth.
SPEAKER_01: Let your word be your bond.
SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna say yes to something, then follow through.
SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna say no to something, then let your no be your bond.
SPEAKER_01: Be trustworthy.
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of me say, I swear to God?
SPEAKER_01: And they tell you something.
SPEAKER_01: I swear to God, and they tell you something.
SPEAKER_01: I don't trust any of that.
SPEAKER_01: I remember, I think you guys have heard me tell a story, I'll repeat it here, that uh I was in the hallway upstairs and I eavesdropped on charity back in those days, would sometimes want to sleep with Josh.
SPEAKER_01: So Josh and Charity were together, and Charity's telling some story to Josh, and then Josh says, now charity, if you hear people say more than once, this story is true, it's probably not.
SPEAKER_01: So this week I was making a transaction for uh for a particular apparatus that I was purchasing, a pretty expensive one.
SPEAKER_01: And in this particular interaction with the salesperson who had gotten to know me and I'd gotten to know them, I said, I want these things put on this apparatus that I was purchasing, which was expensive for him to do, but he had no guarantee that I was gonna come in and literally put down the money because I hadn't done it, because he's about 45 minutes away.
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Here's the deal.
SPEAKER_01: If you'll trust me, we're in on this together, I'll come in with the check when it's done in two and a half hours.
SPEAKER_01: And he said, Yes.
SPEAKER_01: And we did it.
SPEAKER_01: Because in our exchange and the development of the relationship where we had been making the deal, because I had made a deal based on another guy and another company's deal, and he was honoring that, he trusted me.
SPEAKER_01: And I trusted him.
SPEAKER_01: Jesus is saying, let your yes be yes and your no be no.
SPEAKER_01: And so instead of making elaborate oaths about everything or trying to grandstand, which the Pharisees were doing, can you be trusted?
SPEAKER_01: So that's the question, men and women, can you be trusted?
SPEAKER_01: Do you follow through with your commitments?
SPEAKER_01: It's a kingdom law.
SPEAKER_01: You it's amazing how well things can go for you when people trust you.
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing how hard it is to get anything done when people don't trust you.
SPEAKER_01: Hello?
SPEAKER_01: You guys know what I'm talking about?
SPEAKER_01: And you have blown it, every one of you in this room, including this pastor right here, we have said things and not followed through.
SPEAKER_01: But the kingdom principle is may God be transforming us over time as we mature that our yes would be yes and our no would be no.
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you guys, man, I love this church.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so many of you are involved in so many areas of ministry in this body.
SPEAKER_01: There was a big group down here on Saturday night just getting everything ready for the open house.
SPEAKER_01: And on another night, there was a large group here getting something ready for another event.
SPEAKER_01: And the amount of yeses and no's that go on and the follow-through where people keep their promises is amazing.
SPEAKER_01: And the greatest promise of all, church, the greatest promise of all is when you stand before an audience of people, or maybe it's a justice of the peace, and you said, I do.
SPEAKER_01: It's the greatest oath, it's the greatest promise we've ever made, is to say we're going to love that person through highs and lows, through good times and bad times and hard times.
SPEAKER_01: That's why marriage is so powerful.
SPEAKER_01: That's why at the nucleus of culture, it's the nucleus of society, and Satan is doing everything he can to destroy it.
SPEAKER_01: And many of you have been divorced.
SPEAKER_01: And now you're remarried.
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully you've learned, right?
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully we've learned.
SPEAKER_01: And that commitment, make that commitment true.
SPEAKER_01: Stay in it.
SPEAKER_01: I think that's why what he's saying follows the commands and the admonitions about marriage.
SPEAKER_01: Look at verse 38.
SPEAKER_01: So now he slightly switches gears.
SPEAKER_01: You've heard that it was said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
SPEAKER_01: And let me just say this: the way this was framed by the Pharisees was you were obligated.
SPEAKER_01: It was an obligation that if someone did you wrong, you needed to make them pay.
SPEAKER_01: That was the way it had been framed at that time.
SPEAKER_01: So you've heard that it was said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
SPEAKER_01: But I say to you, to not resist an evil person.
SPEAKER_01: But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
SPEAKER_01: I don't like this part.
SPEAKER_01: This part right here is a little bit difficult.
SPEAKER_01: By the way, all of this is impossible in your own power.
SPEAKER_01: So instead of hating them back, love them back.
SPEAKER_01: That's the point.
SPEAKER_01: Can you love someone who is who has literally physically struck you?
SPEAKER_01: Can you turn the other cheek?
SPEAKER_01: That is impossible without the power of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: He continues.
SPEAKER_01: If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
SPEAKER_01: And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him too.
SPEAKER_01: Give to him who asks of you, and from him who wants to borrow from you, do not turn away.
SPEAKER_01: So there was a law at that time in the culture that if a Roman soldier came with a backpack, he could pick a Jewish citizen, anybody he wanted, and make them carry that pack for one mile.
SPEAKER_01: And they would have all been aware of that.
SPEAKER_01: He says, No, don't just do one mile, do two miles.
SPEAKER_01: What's he talking about?
SPEAKER_01: Men and women, he's talking about being the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01: Be the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01: Bring the kingdom into your job.
SPEAKER_01: Bring the kingdom into your relationship with your boss.
SPEAKER_01: Bring the kingdom into your marriage.
SPEAKER_01: Let this passionate love for God be greater than your anger, be greater than your lust, be greater than the obligations that you're forced to do.
SPEAKER_01: Be the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01: Who knows what God wants to do in that circumstance and in your family and in your job and in situations you are if you become the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01: It's radical stuff.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this stuff is radical.
SPEAKER_01: I can't do it.
SPEAKER_01: You can't do it unless God does it through us.
SPEAKER_01: You've heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.
SPEAKER_01: But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.
SPEAKER_01: Go back to the first part of chapter 5.
SPEAKER_01: Look at verse 11.
SPEAKER_01: We talked to you, we went through the Beatitudes and we talked about verses 3 through 12.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 11, it says, Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for my sake.
SPEAKER_01: Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
SPEAKER_01: So there's some kind of a reward system that I don't get.
SPEAKER_01: But it's all through scripture.
SPEAKER_01: Men and women, there's some kind of a reward system.
SPEAKER_01: God sees our heart.
SPEAKER_01: Even when you're driving, I've gone from preaching to meddling.
SPEAKER_01: That guy who cuts you off.
SPEAKER_01: There's some kind of a reward system that I don't necessarily understand, of which God sees that when we bless those who cut us off, or those who persecute us, or those who hurt us, and we choose to bless them, even if it's not exactly the way we're reading it here, but there's something within you that asks you a blessing upon them.
SPEAKER_01: My prayer, because it says pray here, is God get them.
SPEAKER_01: But it's not supposed to be that way.
SPEAKER_01: But as God is transforming us from the inside out, and we're all on this journey together, you're gonna get rewarded.
SPEAKER_01: And I'll just tell you, most of the time you do not get rewarded in this life.
SPEAKER_01: And every one of us had been deeply, deeply hurt at times.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, really, if you haven't been stabbed in the back, if you haven't been ripped off, you're not living enough.
SPEAKER_01: You're not loving enough.
SPEAKER_01: Because love and living means we take risk, right?
SPEAKER_01: It means we take risks with people.
SPEAKER_01: It means that we give our heart to others.
SPEAKER_01: When you get married, you give your heart to that person.
SPEAKER_01: When you're dating, you're starting to give that heart to that person.
SPEAKER_01: Don't give your whole heart while you're dating.
SPEAKER_01: Guard your heart.
SPEAKER_01: When you get married, give it all.
SPEAKER_01: But not before that, because there's a good chance you might break up.
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, there's a lot of fish in that pond.
SPEAKER_01: Not just one.
SPEAKER_01: But as we give our heart to people, as we love people, we are gonna get hurt.
SPEAKER_01: We are gonna be, we are gonna be defraught, we are gonna get stabbed in the back.
SPEAKER_01: So what do we do with that that pain and that hurt?
SPEAKER_01: That's really the essence here.
SPEAKER_01: The gold standard of the kingdom is love, or the gold standard of the enemy is bitterness.
SPEAKER_01: And some of you are way, you're still carrying that weight of bitterness.
SPEAKER_01: And my challenge would be come on Thursday night.
SPEAKER_01: Come to the worship night.
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's release bitterness.
SPEAKER_01: God did that in my life.
SPEAKER_01: He released supernaturally bitterness over some things that had happened to me.
SPEAKER_01: He can do that in your life.
SPEAKER_01: And some of you are still carrying the weight of bitterness, and it's not yours to carry anymore.
SPEAKER_01: Give it to him.
SPEAKER_01: Surrender it to him.
SPEAKER_01: And let his power and love flow through you in a fresh new way.
SPEAKER_01: I say to you, love your enemies.
SPEAKER_01: Bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you.
SPEAKER_01: By the way, next week we're gonna talk about the things done in secret.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna call it a secret history with God.
SPEAKER_01: And in the whole rest of the beginning of chapter six is talking about a secret history with God.
SPEAKER_01: That's what he's alluding to here.
SPEAKER_01: There's a secret history with God where we do good to those who hate us, and God sees it, nobody else may see it, nobody else may notice it, but God does.
SPEAKER_01: That releases his blessing in your life.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 45, that you may be sons of your father.
SPEAKER_01: I would circle sons of your father in heaven, for he makes his son rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
SPEAKER_01: For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?
SPEAKER_01: Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
SPEAKER_01: And if you greet your brethren only, what do you more than others?
SPEAKER_01: Do not even the tax collectors do so?
SPEAKER_01: Therefore you shall be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.
SPEAKER_01: Three times in chapter 5, Jesus uses a radical term.
SPEAKER_01: You ought to write that down.
SPEAKER_01: The most radical term used in the Sermon on the Mount, which is Matthew 5, 6, and 7, is Father.
SPEAKER_01: He's calling God his Father.
SPEAKER_01: An endearment, a relationship of a relationship with God the Father that Moses never knew, that David never knew, that Ezekiel never knew, that Elijah never knew.
SPEAKER_01: This is rocking the world, the religious, pharisaical world of the Jews.
SPEAKER_01: He's calling God his father.
SPEAKER_01: And he's going to use it a dozen times in chapter 6.
SPEAKER_01: Men and women, God's your father.
SPEAKER_01: And he says to each one of you, you're beloved.
SPEAKER_01: You're beloved.
SPEAKER_01: And his heart yearns for a personal, vital, growing, dynamic relationship with him.
SPEAKER_01: That's the point of the Sermon on the Mount.
SPEAKER_01: That's the point of the kingdom values that he's speaking of.
SPEAKER_01: That we can't, this is impossible.
SPEAKER_01: It can't be done without a personal, growing relationship with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: So turn in your Bibles to Romans, Romans chapter 8.
SPEAKER_01: Turn to Romans chapter 8.
SPEAKER_01: Everything I've said is impossible.
SPEAKER_01: Right?
SPEAKER_01: It is.
SPEAKER_01: But how do we become perfect as he is perfect?
SPEAKER_01: And that word means mature.
SPEAKER_01: How do we become more mature?
SPEAKER_01: How do we grow up before we grow old?
SPEAKER_01: Romans 8.
SPEAKER_01: Look at verse 11.
SPEAKER_01: I want to give you three truths that enable us to live the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01: Three truths that enable us to live the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 11.
SPEAKER_01: Romans 8, verse 11.
SPEAKER_01: But if the spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you.
SPEAKER_01: Now let me just stop there.
SPEAKER_01: If you do not have a personal surrendered life to Christ, the Spirit of the living God does not dwell in you.
SPEAKER_01: The Spirit of God is not in you.
SPEAKER_01: You can't do this.
SPEAKER_01: Impossible without the Spirit of God.
SPEAKER_01: If you've given your heart to Christ, if you surrender to Christ, and you can do that today.
SPEAKER_01: Little addendum.
SPEAKER_01: Is for probably the last four to five weeks, every week people have come forward up here and received Christ for the first time.
SPEAKER_01: It's exciting.
SPEAKER_01: But if you open your heart to Christ and surrender to Him, a decision that I made when I was 18 at the University of Georgia, and man, I was full of religion.
SPEAKER_01: I had a PhD in religion.
SPEAKER_01: My dad was a pastor.
SPEAKER_01: My mom led everything else in the church.
SPEAKER_01: I was in the church nine months before I was born.
SPEAKER_01: I was baptized at six weeks in a white dress.
SPEAKER_01: I still got PTSD from that.
SPEAKER_01: But at 18, I truly gave my heart to Christ.
SPEAKER_01: And when you do, the Spirit of God comes in.
SPEAKER_01: So this is what Paul's talking about.
SPEAKER_01: He says, if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, that's for the believer, the person who's given his heart to Christ.
SPEAKER_01: He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through the Spirit who dwells in you.
SPEAKER_01: So you can be empowered with the Holy Spirit, the same power that raised Jesus from the dead.
SPEAKER_01: This passage to me is one of the most powerful passages in the Bible for healing, for physical healing.
SPEAKER_01: Because it gives life to your mortal bodies.
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you the hundreds of people through the years that I've had a relationship with who gave their heart to Christ, began to follow Christ, and the headaches went away.
SPEAKER_01: And the depression went away.
SPEAKER_01: And the cancer went away.
SPEAKER_01: Hundreds of people.
SPEAKER_01: Nobody even prayed for them to get healed.
SPEAKER_01: But because they were filled with the Holy Spirit, they were learning to walk in the Spirit, they were dealing with stress in a totally different way.
SPEAKER_01: The Spirit of God was living in them.
SPEAKER_01: The enemy and his grip was broken over their physical, emotional, and mental faculties.
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that exciting?
SPEAKER_01: Give your life to Christ today.
SPEAKER_01: Come to Jesus, He'll transform you from the inside out.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 12.
SPEAKER_01: Not to the flesh to live according to the flesh.
SPEAKER_01: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die.
SPEAKER_01: But if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
SPEAKER_01: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
SPEAKER_01: So number one, the Holy Spirit empowers us.
SPEAKER_01: And number two, we're children of God and we're now led by the Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: We're led by the Spirit.
SPEAKER_01: I went and saw the best movie yesterday morning.
SPEAKER_01: By the way, best time to go to a movie is about 9.40 in the morning.
SPEAKER_01: And we went and saw the new movie Harriet about Harriet Tubman and her work in the Underground Railroad.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, fantastic.
SPEAKER_01: Here's what was cool about it.
SPEAKER_01: There had to be Christian script writers.
SPEAKER_01: First of all, the script was excellent.
SPEAKER_01: Second of all, they really emphasized the visions and the dreams that she had led by the Holy Spirit in getting slaves out of the South.
SPEAKER_01: It was amazing, amazing story.
SPEAKER_01: And we went and researched it, totally accurate.
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny because, okay, this is so funny.
SPEAKER_01: There's this one point where she gets to Philadelphia, a free state, and she's being interviewed by this guy who's a part of the abolitionist movement, another black guy, and they're sitting there talking, and then she talks about, he's asking her, tell me about any injuries you got when you were a slave.
SPEAKER_01: She talked about getting hit in the head with a two-pound weight, and you can see the scar between her eyes.
SPEAKER_01: And she said, Ever since that, I've been having um dreams and visions from God.
SPEAKER_01: And then he writes in his ledger, brain damage.
SPEAKER_01: That's the way the world looks at you guys.
SPEAKER_01: You feel a brain, you're brain damaged.
SPEAKER_01: Man, I want to be brain damaged.
SPEAKER_01: I want to be led by the spirit.
SPEAKER_01: I want to know supernaturally what's going on so I can have wisdom in making decisions.
SPEAKER_01: How about you?
SPEAKER_01: I can't do that without the spirit.
SPEAKER_01: And you can't do that if you don't give your heart to Christ.
SPEAKER_01: So that's number two.
SPEAKER_01: So number one, we're empowered with the spirit.
SPEAKER_01: Number two, we're led by the spirit.
SPEAKER_01: Verse 15.
SPEAKER_01: For you did not receive the spirit of bondage, you gan to fear, but you re received the spirit of adoption by whom we now cry out, Abba Father.
SPEAKER_01: That's what Jesus is talking about.
SPEAKER_01: He's saying, you can't love your enemies in your own power?
SPEAKER_01: Impossible.
SPEAKER_01: You can't turn the other cheek.
SPEAKER_01: Impossible.
SPEAKER_01: You can't deal with your struggle with anger and lust.
SPEAKER_01: Impossible.
SPEAKER_01: But if you'll come into a relationship with Abba Father, if you'll let me live my life through you, it is possible.
SPEAKER_01: By Jesus, we say it, all things are possible.
SPEAKER_01: Say it out loud.
SPEAKER_01: All things are possible.
SPEAKER_01: Through Jesus.
SPEAKER_01: Not by you.
SPEAKER_01: You can't do it.
SPEAKER_01: But through Christ, all things are possible through a growing intimacy with God the Father.
SPEAKER_01: That's what Jesus is talking about in the Sermon on the Mount.
SPEAKER_00: You've been listening to The Road with Pastor Teacher Steve Holt.
SPEAKER_00: We hope you have been blessed by today's message.
SPEAKER_00: To connect with us further, visit theroad.org.
SPEAKER_00: If you are walking through a difficult time, we want to pray for you.
SPEAKER_00: Go to theroad.org, click on the ministries tab, and go to our prayer page to send us your prayer request.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for tuning in today, and be sure to listen to the next edition of The Road with Pastor Teacher Steve Holt.