Spiritual Warfare in Marriage: Deliverance, Forgiveness, and Generational Healing

In this episode, Anthony interviews Christian relationship coach Debra Manfre about spiritual warfare in marriage, arguing the devil targets marriage to damage children’s identity and fuel divorce, hookup culture, and chaos. Debra shares her testimony of a volatile marriage marked by anger, insecurity, silent treatment, and feeling trapped, culminating in separation that led her to surrender to God, fast weekly, pray, and pursue healing. She explains demons, oppression, deliverance, and how unforgiveness can open “doors” to demonic influence, describing freedom through renouncing agreements, rebuking confusion, inner-child healing, and forgiveness practices like guided prayer and letter-writing. 

They discuss generational patterns (divorce, deception, molestation), discerning God’s voice through Scripture, dreams, and visions, ordering priorities as God–spouse–children–work, and when medical care vs. spiritual help may be needed. Debra prays for listeners and shares her upcoming book and social links.

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Marriage Under Attack

01:28 God Restores Relationships

03:06 Spiritual Warfare In Conflict

06:08 Demons Deliverance Explained

09:16 Her Awakening Journey

12:27 Generational Patterns And Fasting

17:52 Inside A Chaotic Marriage

21:03 Surrender Prayer And Change

27:07 Covenant Divorce And Abuse

32:34 Coaching Framework And Healing

35:32 Trauma Identity And Forgiveness

38:49 Forgiveness And Manifestation

40:25 Unforgiveness Soul Wounds

42:28 Healing Trauma In Body

43:18 Medical Or Spiritual

43:35 Deliverance Client Stories

47:43 Discernment Doctor First

49:18 Soul Work And Emotions

50:48 Faith With Works

53:08 Hearing God Clearly

57:57 Single Patterns And Healing

01:02:35 God First Family Order

01:05:01 Right Person And Values

01:08:32 Marriage Spiritual Attacks

01:10:18 Can Christians Have Demons

01:11:28 Word Of God Renewal

01:14:41 Guided Healing Prayer

01:17:33 Walking Away From Religion

01:19:52 Marriage Builds Character

01:20:38 Advice To Younger Self

01:21:30 Book And Where To Find

01:22:42 Final Thanks And Outro

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Where do you see right now the devil, the enemy is like most effective?

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Yeah, it's just yeah. I think that's because once you destroy a marriage, the kid's identity are broken and shatter. I'm a product of that. You know, it's not easy. And I see that all the time with you know my clients um when they're going through divorce. First of all, both parents are preoccupied, are distracted, are not taking the role. There a lot of times, you know, they're dealing with their own emotion, and then the kid is that left and is in pain. And the worst of that is that they can't even express it because they're usually babies young, so or even older. So I think marriages are a big place for demons to attack, to break, to destroy.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, I think that the devil hates marriage, right? Because it is the ultimate reflection of God. We are made in his image, male and female, and when we become joined into one flesh through marriage, we are actually manifesting the full image of God. And what would the devil love to do? He would love to prevent that from happening or to rip it apart when it does happen. And that's why I think we see divorce rates so high. That's why I think we see um the proliferation of like the dating and hookup culture so high and people so willing to just like date around and sleep around because it's the devil trying to infiltrate the the holiness of union between a male and a female for life. What's the biggest breakthrough you've seen in a relationship or a marriage that was facilitated by God?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Many though. I see God done, like God's done so much in my life and the people that I work with. Like, there's no one too far to be restored. Like, I don't care what people tell me, there's nobody ever too far. Like, oh, I get the DMs too, but my husband is not a Christian. Oh, this. I was like, that was me. Like, can you imagine? No, I'm the one preaching. Yeah. If my husband had given up because I was not a Christian.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Have you seen it in someone else? Like, have you seen a really big turnaround in someone else's? Maybe my issues.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Yeah, I have I have on my mentorship right now. Um so interesting because it looked impossible. And because I have the gift of prophecy, I can see it. So sometimes I'm really careful. Um when to speak into something like that when God shows me. But um I saw it. I saw this one of the girls that she was the first one to carry over all the relationships, like all of them that were in the mentorship. And I was like, okay, your husband's coming home. Like, like I saw, and he's coming in literally like a month and a half, two, she's like, he's home. And they're working in that, but then because I know that people think, oh now he's home, peace, perfect. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Get ready.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

The the war and I do believe that marriage is a it's a warfare. Like it's constantly trying to break you and pull you apart. Because I mean, if you look at like when you get married, especially and you get divorced, you have kids, it's a mess. It's a lot of people. I mean, I came from broken marriage. It was not fun.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah. Well, we're gonna we're gonna get into your story. Yeah, and I want to save some of the some of the juicier things uh for a little bit, some of the more practical and spiritual side of things, because I think a lot of people experience troubles in their relationships, and we traditionally go to the mental, emotional side, yeah. But you're here saying there's a spiritual side, and and most often it's actually a spiritual cause, and there is spiritual warfare, and then there's some spiritual technologies that will get into probably you know, prayer, fasting, deliverance. You're talking about prophecy. People are probably wondering what that even is, and can we all do it? Can you do it? What does that mean? So, what do you think, first of all, is something that Christians get wrong about the spiritual side of relationships?

SPEAKER_03 3:50

That they think that everything is just like, oh, it's just a fight. And the interesting thing is that when I was in Brazil, I always understood I had an experience about a year ago that um I was having like a disagreement with my husband about something. And just that talk came to my mind, and I believe it was the Holy Spirit, just said, like, rebuke the spirit of like disagreement. Like he gave me the word exactly, like, you know, um, and I just I didn't say in front of my husband because he would think I was crazy because not everybody's gonna believe that. But I think if the woman is wise too, and I went downstairs in my basement and I was like, come out of my house right now. And I I'm trying to remember the exact word that I used because it was a spirit of confusion and chaos. Not in my house, you have no authority. I commend you to leave in Jesus' name. And literally, like, no joke, like less than 10 seconds, when I walk upstairs, my husband was so calm. And I was just like, like, so like, what is this? So when I went to this conference in Brazil, uh, the person that spoke before me, she was saying that she had an experience because people don't they underestimate the spiritual world. They think it's that's it's not real because they never truly experienced. So she was in the car with her husband. She's been married for over 20 years, and she was speaking to the woman that as they were talking, they got into an argument and got really heated in the argument. And um there was before they knew they were super loud at each other and just saying hurtful things. And then she literally felt the presence of somebody behind her in the in the backseat. Like she literally, because she was like, and they she looked back and he felt it. Her husband, they were both pastors, and he felt it. And she realized, like, wait a second, because when we start dishonoring speaking, because when you open your mouth, literally you're giving authority to demons, when you're speaking negative things, when you're dishonoring, when you're just coming to agreement with certain things, you allowing them, come make a party here. And so I do think that the big thing that they they believe in the spiritual world, but they're not, they don't understand that their spiritual world is ruled by principles.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

So you so you're saying demons and spirits are real?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Okay, so how would you describe that to someone who's like that's a totally foreign concept? What do you mean by demons and spirits? Like you say there's a spirit of confusion. What is that? What does it even look like or mean from a from a spiritual, even practical perspective? But I guess it's not practical if it's spiritual in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Yeah, it's it's that's what I'm trying to like. If you just go into the book of Ephesians, right? Ephesians 6, it tells us that our fight is not against blood and what we see. Yeah, it's the dark schemes, everything that's working, that we don't see it. So the best way is like go into the Bible. That chapter tells you that you have to put on your armor. Not that I like to think that everything is spiritual. I'm not going to a spiritual warfare all the time, but to pay attention when sometimes you're just in a peaceful and that starts happening, and there's a fight, there's an argument, and that argument's constantly happening. Maybe you are bringing in people to your house that don't have good relationship. You sometimes our home is a such a, I think, important place, and we allow people. I used to allow all kinds of people walk in my house and not think about the consequences. So I anoint my home. So just having that, I promise you, your life will change. Because my girls on the mentorship, they see that and they're like, it changed. I feel it, I know it. So it's real.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

So when you say a demon or a spirit, like these are literal visible forces and entities that are, are they here now? Like, what's what's are they like floating around? I'm not saying literally, I mean they could be, but I'm saying, like, was if if someone's listening to this or watching this and they're like, oh, what's a demon or a spirit? Is that something that's like around me right now? Is it like in the mole? Is it the grocery store? Like what?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

It can be in different places. Can I I I believe in deliverance because I experienced, I didn't believe in none of this until I experienced. I went through a deliverance myself and I had to put it out because they always have to come out. I do deliverance on people, and I had had where women, I just, you know, tell them to rebuke, to renounce, come out of agreement. And sometimes our words I spoke over the when they were kids, and they have no, it's not their fault, but they're carrying demons. It's real, and they threw up, they start feeling sick, and then they feel better, and they're completely different. I have a girl right now that she even looked like literally in three months completely different. And she went through deliverance. And it was so crazy because we're in the mentorship and I was in the app and she was just commenting, like, I don't feel good. I'm and then she's like, I threw up. And then I was okay, I gotta call this girl, make sure she's okay. So I called her and I was like, How you feeling? She was like, Okay, I don't feel so good. You know, I sometimes this coughing depends, but they do and they they can be in you.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah, it's real. And this is not to scare anybody, this is because they hear throwing up and demons, but it there is, and I think the whole the point of this, and I'm sure you can verify this like there's freedom in this process through Jesus Christ, right? And I would love, I would love to for you like before we I don't I I don't want to scare people too much, and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty of like actual practical processes of like deliverance and whatnot. But can you take us back in time first? Because I want to go back to like when you first like even had this come to your mind about the spiritual side of things, because um there had to be a moment when like God really opened your eyes, even if at the time you didn't realize what it was. So can you take us back to like when did you when did you really start diving into this world of spiritual warfare and whatnot?

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah. So I got separated from my husband and it was one of the hardest times of my life. And during that time, I realized I needed a healing because my second marriage was falling apart. And I realized, okay, maybe he's not the problem. Maybe it's me that needs some help. So I start just going through a whole healing journey. Um, and you know that a lot it's emotional. So I started doing all the emotional things, but I still felt stuck and I still felt like I couldn't overcome certain things like the divorce. I always had those thoughts of running away from my house, like very like heavy on my mind for no reason. It's not like my husband was doing something. I was just, I just felt I needed to leave my house, unhappy, this emptiness. So um, through that journey, I start like really going deep in the Bible and reading. And through the word of God, when you look at Jesus' ministry, Jesus' ministry, healing, deliverance, casting out demons. Like when this is something that when people think of it, how do I believe in the spiritual world is look at Jesus' ministry. That's all he did. He healed the sick, he delivered them, he cast out demons. That that's all it was. That's Jesus' ministry. So um, so I remember when I start really felling, like feeling very stuck, no matter how much I meditated, no matter how much I did all the things everybody told me, I felt this pain and stuck and just unhappy in my marriage. Uh, and then, you know, through reading the Bible, the Holy Spirit started revealing to me that there was uh uh pretty much a curse in my family bloodline of divorce, which my parents would, you know, divorce. Um, I just found out that even my great-grandmother, which I'm thinking hundred years ago, like she was left, she was abandoned. So that was not even divorced, but she was left abandoned and she ended up having a second family. So that was something way above me that wasn't just like, oh, uh, this is gonna be an easy thing. It was a process. So I had to fast and pray and renounce and work on myself, especially with fasting a lot to get to the point that in place that I am today that it's like, no, this is forever.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

So it sounds, so it sounds like you experience this like chaos in your marriage, but also this like this almost like you're constantly self-sabotaging the relationship and love, and and then you realize that there's clearly something beyond the emotional and mental side because it wasn't being fixed through traditional means. So you're like, oh, maybe there is something spiritual to this.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

I tried therapy, I tried everything, meditation, I try everything and wouldn't go away. Yes, so I was constantly self-sabotaging, that's the word that was constantly self-sabotaging without like we're having a great moment, and before I knew it turned into a fight.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

And chaos.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

So so if someone, if someone listening to this is like experiencing this sort of emotional, or not even emotional, but relationship chaos and constant back and forth, and there's constant arguments and stress and all of this. How do you know when there's a clear-cut line between what's something emotional and mental and what's spiritual? How do you how do you tell?

SPEAKER_03 12:46

You just have to go to your like ask questions about your family. You have to understand your family tree, your genealogy, what happened. That you have to understand everything in the Bible, Anthony, is there for a reason. I was just reading Matthew first. There is the whole genealogy of Jesus for a reason. It's showing us where he came from. We had prostitute, right? Let's look into David. He killed, committed idolatry, like all those things. Uh, like the whole family line. So it's there for reasons for us to understand that we have to look at our own. So if you're doing therapy, if you're doing sort of tradition no work and it's not helping you, look at ask questions. I tell everyone, ask questions. What would what happened with mommy and daddy? Yeah, right? Were they happily married? Or do I come from a toxic relationship and I learn those behaviors, right? Or there's more.

unknown 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

And it and it talked the Bible talks about how our sin will affect our children's children.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Exodus, yes, it's it's in the Ten Commandments. Ten Commandments speaks that um, you know, I should have brought my Bible. I was thinking about that too before the Ten Commandments tells you, um, is I think the fourth commandment, because the first five is all about God, and the other the other five commandments are about how you treat others. So it tells you if you come from a family that, like, you know, if you had committed sin, it's going to go on the children and the up to third and fourth generation. But the obedience of one, because he's such a merciful God, it will go up to a thousand generations.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Wow. So you experience all of this in your marriage, the troubles, you go to the Bible, the Bible says, hey, there's generational issues here potentially. How is that then revealed to you what the generational affliction or bondage, like how did you actually determine that?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

To prayer and fasting. Yeah. Like prayer and fasting, it's all over from Old Testament to the New Testament. They all practice. So every time I felt something, I would pray and fast. My husband at some point was like, Are you even eating? Because I would fast with no food. I done three-day, like just water fast. It's very powerful because it breaks strongholds. And in the Bible says that some demons only come out of that way.

unknown 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

So just asking God, like it's interesting because in paying attention to dreams, to things that's coming up, it's repeating sometimes, things are just repeating. I recently had an experience that um because it's not just like divorce, but can be some familiar spirits can operate in your life for many, many generations until somebody name it and say, okay, because unless you know their name and you say, I come out of agreement, I renounce, because it's just like when you inherit something, right? You if you have a child and you pass away, you're gonna leave everything that you have for that child, unless they go to the court and say, I renounce, I don't want this. You automatically inherit everything good and bad. And people don't think that. So I had an experience recently with my husband in the business. Um and we purchased a restaurant and it didn't go so well the way we thought. And remember, all is always working out to the ones that love God, right? Everything is happening for a reason and not to feel bad, but to look at why this happened. And then uh when I start looking, I said to my husband, why was this? And then I look into it and I start praying and fasting, and I literally was revealed that was a spirit of like deceive and deception over running over my family bloodline. That's so crazy. Because I just went to Brazil and I was like, I gotta ask everything to my older, uh, my dad's sister, like my aunt. And she was like, like telling me like um that my great-grandmother was deceived by her brother. And then as she's telling me this, I was just like, wait, this sounds like my dad with his sister. Like, it's so many common factors that can't be, you know, just emotional. So I was like, Dad, what happened in your family, like between you and your sister? And it's like, oh, she deceived me. She took all financial gains. And I was like, literally, I'm I'm I'm kind of going through, and even the amount that happened to my dad was the same thing. So you just renounce it. You're going to fast, you come out of agreement, you renounce it, and yeah, and then you're free.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

I love it. And too, I I respect you so much because you've been through it, right? And uh, I guess so, Deborah, you're you're a Christian relationship coach for women who are experiencing um some spiritual warfare in the relationship in their marriage, and you help them break some of those mental and spiritual strongholds that are preventing them from experiencing the love and the life that God wants them to have, right? And I think it is really beautiful that you have this testimony of uh a chaotic marriage, a chaotic inner spiritual world for yourself, that you were then led to these spiritual technologies and solutions, if you will, um, that God blessed you with. And then you totally reconciled your marriage in a really awesome, supernatural way. And now you're sharing that with people. If we circle back, because I I really, I really want to kind of double-click into what it looked like before. I know you mentioned there was there were some things that were you were dealing with internally with your husband, like, but like can you take us back? Like, what did the marriage really look like? What were like what were the really crappy parts that you were like, oh, this something has to change?

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Correct. Yeah, that's a great question because um it it's interesting because I felt like got to a point that we had a beautiful home, that perfect life on the outside. We he was making money. I was a stay-home mom. For everyone, I looked like I had the life of my dreams, but inside I just felt so broken, so unhappy. I woke up and I was just always like, and he felt like very unappreciated. So it was a mutual feeling. So anything would turn into a huge fight. My home, it was fight over fight. There was no peace. No peace. There was constant fights and arguments, and even when we would go on trips with family, like, like I didn't want to be that person. Like I always loved people and I was nice to people outside, but when it came to my house, I was like literally a monster. Like, let's say that way. So it was constantly like arguments, constantly like I had no self-control. I was very angry. I had a lot of anger that I didn't know where it came from, but I just felt it. Um, I was a great mom, but very impatient, very disconnected, I would say. So I was there, but you know when you're there but you're not there. Uh, and I remember he would always say, like, you're here, but you're not here. Like constantly doing, I didn't know how to, because I didn't know how to sit and have a conversation like that much, that long. I would be doing like cooking, doing something. So it was just like not like a very eye-to-eye, deep connection. You're important to me. Like, I really care about this. I didn't know how to conversate. I would do like the silence treatment. So when I look back, it was chaos, fighting, not talking for days, like, and just everybody's just shoveling down to get to the point that like he was just like, I can't live like this anymore. This is this is crazy. It got to we would sleep, wake up. I think a lot of people live like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah, like roommates, right? It's like correct.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Roommates, no, no, no real love, no real caring, no partnership, no communication, like deep communication. Like you really hurt my feelings like now. I can talk to him and say, honey, you know, you really said something that hurt, like without screaming, without yelling, without like getting so defensive and allowing himself to to express and say what maybe he was triggered, maybe some, but there was no communication and just this empty feeling. Like I always felt like I wanted to leave. Yeah, but I I would feel and another thing too, like he was too good. Have you ever seen women like he was too good? Crazy, but because familiar to me when I was young was to be treated not good. So him being kind, him being loving, him being patient, that would trigger me. That would make me go crazy.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, it probably didn't even feel safe to you, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:01

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, no, yeah. So what was there like a turning point? Like, was there like a prayer or a moment where you're like crying in your car? Like, what was that moment that like things started to turn? Not maybe things weren't fixed yet, but what what was that like specific moment? Because I love I love hearing like these core moments or memories that people have where like was the catalyst for the change. So what what was that moment for you?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

He left the house, right? He he said, I can't do this anymore because I thought I was always perfect. I so he actually left. He left. Okay, he left, he moved out. I thought I was perfect. I thought I never made a mistake. Very prideful.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

So at this time, so he leaves, you still you still don't have any responsibility for this. You're like, okay, like that's just what it is.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Like it is what it is. I didn't want him. I cried, obviously. I promised I was gonna change, but he's like, it's just another promise. You're not gonna change because you you don't really mean it. Um, but then when he left, it was my turning point. When he left, I realized like this is happening. Like he's for real. I actually am writing a book and I shared this. Like, this is for real. I can never forget. 2016, like January, I was walking into the airport coming home from Brazil. And I was like, he wouldn't even talk to me. Like the silence. I used to be the one giving the silence treatment. So now I was getting that. And I was like, that was my turning point. And that's when I came to God. That's when I said, I gotta, I gotta get that's when I surrender to God. I did the prayer in my kitchen on the floor, crying because I was like, there's nobody that can save me, help me right now, because I I really don't know how I'm going to get through this. I felt like so powerless seeing my kids hurt, but feeling I love this main. We love each other. We have always loved, but we couldn't. Um it wasn't, and I see this a lot working with a lot of women, a lot of marriages, and not because of lack of love, but because of lack of communication, because of not being able to see eye to eye and express the love in the way the other person will feel. So that was me feeling like a victim. Like he just works, works, works, works and provides. That was the life that we had. And then he looked at me like I I'm killing myself here, giving you everything that you should be thankful and grateful. And he was feeling so unappreciated by me. So it was just a completely chaos, both ends.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

So you have this breakdown that kind of turns into a breakthrough, right? You're on your, you're on your you're on your knees, you're praying to God, right? But for the first time. The first time. What change does something change immediately? Do you start thinking differently, acting differently, feeling differently? Like what's what are some of the practical changes in how you showed up in your marriage?

SPEAKER_03 23:34

I started fasting.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

It was the first thing that got direct. Something really shifted within me. I think that it was so genuine. This it was a simple prayer, like just in tears and pain, you know, like I and it felt like I finally surrendered and I said, I'm giving up my own strength, like trying to fix, I'm gonna give it to you. So I started fasting. He guided me to fast every week, every Sunday for my marriage, even though he was out. So I started fasting, just one meal. Just one meal because I couldn't do much more. And every Sunday I did that for months. I think for about a year, I didn't. Every Sunday I would have fast all the way until 12 p.m. I wouldn't eat. And that's how it started. But it started with me, with him, not him.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah. So so if someone's listening to this and they feel like this sounds a lot like their story and they're stuck in similar patterns and they're getting to that moment, even if they're not aware of it, of like getting on their hands and knees and pleading with God, what would you say to them? Like, what's the first thing you would tell someone at that point before you made that prayer?

SPEAKER_03 24:36

I wish I had done sooner. I wish you really gave your life to God and allow him to know that you're not alone, because a lot of times we go through so many experiences in our childhood that makes us, you know, especially I'd say like if they had grew up without a father or maybe with a father that wasn't so present, you know, wasn't there around Allah, a lot we get hurt a lot and we have a hard time in trusting, like feeling safe, feeling protected. And I can look that I was always looking for that. But I didn't know that God could be that for me. So if they could give the everything to him, to God, and allow him to do a complete transformation, healing. The most powerful healing I ever experienced was with the Holy Spirit. I write about that in the book. Like he's so powerful. When you really have this deep relationship with him and you allow him to guide you, it's not easy. Because sometimes he's gonna tell you to do things that don't make sense, but when you trust him, God is slowly training you to trust him.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, to me, I was brought up Christian, but I always or Catholic really. And I always say I was Catholic like Olive Garden was Italian, you know, like I could talk the talk, but never really walk the walk. Um, were you always a Christian?

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Did you like my grandma was Christian?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Grandmother, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:48

So I was exposed to Christianity um at a young age. She was very Christian, but my parents weren't. So I always had this love for God. It's not like I didn't know God. I always loved God, I knew about God, but I was this morning person that would go to church, not like with the fire, like I need God like in every single way, and I need to surrender because I think the hardest part is to surrender to trust Him, to give up your plans, because that's my plans. I I I don't know if I wanted my marriage restoration. You know, I was so broken at the time. I just wanted my pain to go away. But I surrender my plans to his plans, to his will.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

I think a lot of people get there, right? Their relationship is seemingly so bad and beyond repair that they they might say or act like they're hopeful, but deep down they're like, I don't really want this to work out. Correct. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

And I was that part, like, because we I think the words it's can be you can't take them back. I tell my girls all the time, like, once you say a word, you can't take that back. So words can hurt somebody. And I used to say very hurtful words to him. So I think that brought us apart. And I I say it a lot and many times, like, oh, if this doesn't work out, I don't care because I had no principles. I didn't know how important was marriage, the covenant of marriage to God.

unknown 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So covenants are so important. You see that in the Bible is even covenants that were entered without the original blessing of God, God's still blessed afterwards because that's the power of covenant. And I think a lot of people don't take the marriage covenant seriously enough. And then they, you know, sure, there may be, there may be uh grounds in the Bible for divorce, right? We have the three A's, right? There's a uh adultery, abandonment, and abuse. But that doesn't mean that you should just because those things have happened, right? So what would you say to those people that have experienced? Because this to me, this gets into a little bit of a gray area because some people who have been significantly abused or cheated on, they're probably gonna listen and just be like, What, you want me to reconcile with my partner? So what do you what do you say to that person who's like so like torn down by what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I believe that if you believe in God, that God can change anyone because he changed me and I was the least expectant person to be changed and transformed, I believe that he can transform anyone. Um, I have somebody in the mentorship where there's adultery and I experienced that in my own marriage, so it wasn't something easy. But if the person is willing and they are, not only God's working, God's working. Is it easy? But I think that it's worth to put in the work because when I look back, it's the like if you ask me and my husband, we'll tell you it's the best thing that ever happened to us. But it was painful, it was hurtful, it felt like it was never gonna get to that place, but it's persistency, right? It's not giving up, it's honoring God. And I think that when we honor God, He honors us.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

So do you think all marriages that are having problems should be reconciled regardless of how quote unquote severe the problem is, or do you think some marriages are meant to dissolve?

SPEAKER_03 28:49

I believe that if they're physical, right? Abuse, physical, like where their life is in danger, absolutely not. Like they should protect themselves, they should be somewhere else where they're safe. But I do believe if it just some people say I have emotional, I'm married to a what is it they call like narcissists? And I'm like, stop labeling, stop acting like a victim, take accountability and do the work. Because the other person is should they're just triggering everything that you need to heal within.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

And I think two things can be true. I think you can experience emotional abuse, and you can also be part of the reason why the emotional abuse is.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

I was I was the abuser, yeah, to be honest, in my marriage. That's why I'm like such a testimony because I'm like, if I change, anybody can change. I was the abuser. When I look back, I was um I would break down, like literally. Can I share something?

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Of course. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Well, that's how crazy it was because I remember when we're just recently in the weds coming home from work, and my husband's sleeping, and his phone light up so insecure. Had nothing to do with him. So I pick up the phone, I scream, I yell. The man while he's sleeping, breaking the phone because I I think that he's cheating, he's like nothing was happening. And you know how many times the kids make joke and you broke his phone made like in truthfully, I watched that growing up from my parents. My mom got cheated on, and my dad, it was a mess. And I brought those insecurities from their relationship into my marriage. How crazy is that?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

And it wasn't your fault, you just learned to expect that because that's what you experienced.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

That's what I watch as a little girl. So if daddy hurt mommy, he's hurting me too. I can't trust men, I can't feel safe with men. I can't so I because I work with so many women, like that isn't, I don't think is anyone too far. I think that anybody can change. Obviously, they have to put in the work. And let's be honest, my husband has done none of the healing, none of it. Yeah, I've been the one like transforming, reading, studying. He reads the word, uh, but I have been the one to put in. And and sometimes I stay quiet and I pray about it. There are battles, there are wars that I don't say, yeah, I don't speak, I just fast and pray. And I learned to not just call my friends. I think that is a bad habit. A lot of people chose to want to text somebody and vent and speak. I learned the Holy Spirit taught me like there were times that I literally felt like I couldn't handle my marriage, and I would go to my car, put a worship, and I can cry say this and just speak to the Holy Spirit and just straighten me. And truthfully, only God could change him. Nobody else, instead of calling the wrong people, instead of listening to the people that can't do anything just so I could feel good, so I could gossip about him, so I could dishonor him. Do you understand? I just learned to go to God and put my worries, my anxiety in the right place. And I see him changing him over and over because I was the only one going through the process of feeling. So it was not an easy process. It was a lot enduring, but I believe that the anointing, that the knowledge comes from going through those crushing, you know?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah. That's beautiful because I think too often we try to blame the other person, and that may be true, but like real change only happens if both, or not even both, like if you can first start with taking extreme ownership and responsibility for your side of the things, God can pick up the other side, right? Yes. We don't necessarily necessarily need the spouse to pick up the other side at first if we're going to God with it, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:27

If I want to fight with you, and you don't want to fight, would you fight with me? Correct. Do you understand? Like takes two.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

So so let's walk through, you know, speaking of clients, uh, you work with people, you've helped women um reconcile with their husbands and and transform from the inside out spiritually. Let's kind of walk through like the step-by-step framework of of how you might do that, what it might look like. So let's say, let's say I'm one of your clients. What's step one? Like, what are you what are you listening for? What are you asking me? Like, how does the process start? We start going to your childhood. Okay, so you start there.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

We start there. We start talking about um, you know, first what's happening in the marriage, what you know, and then we go into childhood, then I go into patterns, right? What happened to all the relationships? Maybe it's not your first boyfriend and what's happening, they always see things in common.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

So you're looking for patterns.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

I'm looking for patterns. And then I go into after childhood, patterns, and in what's wrong in the marriage or the relationship. I go into like let's look in the family, what's constantly repeating in the family. So we start working in through those things. And then I do inner child healing, like child, just you know, what's happening, who you need, then we go into forgiveness. And then we look at mommy and dad, what kind of relationship you have with mommy and dad. Because sometimes we want to have good, healthy relationships with our partners. But if I can, I don't have peace with my parents, they were the first ones, even the the worst parents. The Bible tells you, um, in the book of Ephesians, to honor your parents. So that's a covenant, that's a promise, with a promise that your life will live longer. So it doesn't tell you to honor your parents if they're good or if they're bad. It just says honor your parents. And it's a commitment also in the Old Testament. So it's like it's important to honor them. And a lot of people that come with issues, they don't even speak with the parents, or they do, like I used to talk to my mom and my father, I kind of ignore, but uh, I wouldn't say I love you. Yeah, I wouldn't say that those words wouldn't come out of because I was full of resentment. So I start working, I do the let's look into your story. That's kind of how we start. And then I work in the emotional because there's levels, and then I work in the spiritual when they're ready.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

So you're so you're like a you're like a spiritual doctor, right? Like yes, a soul doctor, a spiritual doctor. So someone comes to you and like, this hurts, this is uh like how intense it is, this is the pain, this is what I'm experiencing. And then you look at what you might call the pathology of it spiritually and emotionally and mentally. And you say, okay, these things are coming from like these emotional and mental patterns from your childhood. Let's look at some of the spiritual things generationally. Can you can you describe a little bit in more detail what when we talk about the spiritual afflictions or spiritual warfare that happens due to these generational things, what is it, what does that actually look like? Does that mean like something like a trauma happens to our um grandfather, let's say, and then there's some there's some spirit that enters in as an attachment or a stronghold? Or like can you can you walk us through what is what does that even mean?

SPEAKER_03 35:32

So I'm gonna always give you with my own. I was molested as a little girl, and for the majority of my life, I had no memory of, I didn't remember anything. But when I married my husband, I remembered that one time I had a he touched my leg, like a simple touch in the car. And it made me feel like super uncomfortable for no reason. It was my husband, there was nothing wrong, it was just the two of us in the car. And I remember that day that it was like something happened. I don't know where, what, who, but something happened. And then when I started doing this work, I remember, you know, and it was different people that molested. And through that day, the day I found out, I found out that my daughter was also molested. And then like a year or two years later, I was I went to a speaking event in Brazil and I was speaking about because I'm very I like to voice over because I realized so many you you'll be surprised, like over 80% of the women at work with, they've been molested. It's very sad to say. Uh, and sometimes they think I was just the uncle touching, but it it distorts your identity. It distorts your identity, but it a demon enters there too. A demon enters that because it restores your identity. So, and then I find out that my daddy was too, and then many of my cousins. So that is a very that's an open door that somebody opened, and we're all being all my a lot of my cousins, my dad. So we have at least three generations with child molestation. So it's it happens. So we especially when I speak to women, they're like, yeah, it happened to me. And then I when I was in Brazil, there was a married couple that she was like, I can't, um I'm having a lot of issues. I'm like, were you molested? And she's like, Yes. I look at her, she's super overweight. There's two things that happen. One, because the identity gets distorted, like they really don't see themselves. So she's hiding, so she's eating to protect, to keep a lot of times they they gain weight to protect to keep them safe. So that way nobody looks at them and or they dress completely, I would say, different, like they're trying to show off, they they're looking for attention, you know, they're not dressing inappropriate, they're really looking like you know, they're very um, you can see it, and I see it's a very normal pattern, so that that's a way that you can see demons like really going through.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

So some really bad things happen some from a young age. How do you tell someone then, hey, you gotta forgive that person?

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Because when you understand that when you hold on to the resentment, you wouldn't want suffering.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I heard the quote that holding on to unforgiveness or resentment is like drinking a poison and expecting the other person to get sick.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

That's true. So you're hurting yourself. So I always tell them, because we walk into forgiveness to our parents, to people that molested. It's just always um, it's not doesn't mean what they did is right, but it allows you to set yourself free. It gives you freedom to move on with your life.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

I always say that you can forgive somebody without condoning what they did, right? So what is that process of forgiveness? Because to me, when I work, when I work with clients, uh it's mainly from a psychological, neurological perspective, using things like hypnosis. I address some of the similar things that we talked about, but lately I've been realizing how important the spiritual side is. So then we we address some of these things like forgiveness and and prayer and fasting and some of these other technologies we're talking about. And what I found is that forgiveness is like it's like the key, right? That opens the door for all the other healing to happen. What does act what does forgiveness look like from a spiritual perspective? Am I going to the person saying, hey, I'm I forgive you? Like what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 39:23

You can just, yeah, for me, it depends on the person. Sometimes I walk them into close their eyes and allow and they cry. And sometimes it's just writing a letter, accusing, saying, expressing, voicing over your pen, and then acknowledging the pain, saying, But I choose to forgive, but I choose to set myself free and I make peace with this. So it depends. Every person is individual. Some people are such a state of trauma that you can't even take them to that place. You gotta let them just write it. Yeah. It that it everybody is individual.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah. Do you would you say it's true that you you really can't truly heal if you don't forgive?

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Yes, and it's an open door to demonic oppression. When you are holding on to unforgiveness, it's an open door to demonic oppression. Literally. These people that you will, when they forgive, they manifest. Like if they're not forgiving, they're manifesting and they have to forgive. Like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

We're not talking about manifesting like manifestate, like manifesting money. What do we what do we see? When you say people manifest, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Demonic manifestation, like where they're like contouring, like crazy, vomiting, like feeling sick. So it is holding on into unforgiveness opened doors to demonic oppression very powerfully.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

You know what's interesting is I I was, I don't know, maybe two months ago I was praying/slash meditating. I kind of, you know, a lot of my prayers have been like asking God for things or like, and I and I sometimes I just realize I need to listen. And so I'll do these like prayer meditations where I'm just laying there listening for the Holy Spirit, whatever he says, you know. And I got this image of like a bullseye, like a target, like this three-layer target. And on the center was um the truth. And then the next layer of that was um the lie. And then outside of that was unforgiveness. And it was kind of the structure of a soul wound what was coming to mind. Like we have these soul wounds that happen in this the way the spiritual warfare takes place is that we are born with the truth, right? What God has already spoken over us, our identity in him. We're made in his image. And then what happens is we go through these things either generationally or definitely from our childhood, moments of sin of ourselves, moments of trauma, right? Things happening to us, getting molested, things like that, that then cause us to believe lies that come into spiritual agreement with spiritual entities. And then what ends up happening, especially if there's a perpetrator, is that we have unforgiveness toward that person. And even if there's not unforgiveness toward that person, there's unforgiveness towards ourselves if it was because of sin that made us believe something that was a lie. And so it kind of reconfirmed to me in that moment that the unforgiveness has to be solved for for first, because if you don't forgive, you'll never truly uncover the lies that you learn to believe about yourself or the world around you. And then you won't be able to uncover the truth. So that that just kind of revealed to me that that's a very powerful revelation because it's it's showing up.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

I think that unforgiveness is it keeps you in this like bondage and suffering and oppression. You I it can I tell you something? Like, I also think that it brings disease to your body from my own experience. Because I was molested, um, I had a lot of a lot of issues on my reproductive system. That's why I told you, I was sharing with you that I I pray for women's womb. And a lot of like sometimes happens that they get pregnant because I had a lot of issues my whole life since I remember a little girl, always having issues. And I work out, I eat healthy, right? The physical, I take care of the physical, but remember, we have a so and we have a spirit. And um, nothing changed until I forgive my abuser.

unknown 43:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

And then I never had any issues, never had anything I felt like the best I could ever have felt like never had to go to a gynecological gynecologist because I was having an issue with anything. So I was holding on trauma gets stored in our body. And when you forgive, you set yourself free.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

And do you think that all physical ailments have a spiritual origin, or do you think some are still need to be medically like they still need to be medically addressed?

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Some, yes, medically. Yes. You can usually the things that keeps repeating, there's no explanation, they're spiritual.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

I said that to a client recently. Um, I have uh a coaching client that I do hypnosis with. Um, yes, some people listening to this be like, You guys are talking about Christianity and and now you say you're a Christian hypnotist. That's probably a story for another time. But she came she came to me for some business related um things, some money blocks and whatnot that we were resolving. And she mentioned that she had headaches. And I said, Well, how often do you have these headaches for? And she said, Oh, since I was a kid. And I said, Well, have you been tested? She's like, Yes. Many times I can't find anything. They try this, they try that. And she's a Christian. And I said, Hey, let's let's look at this from a spiritual perspective. And so, in a similar fashion, walked her through like a deliverance process, told her what to do, like bring it to the courts of heaven. Maybe we could talk about that too, because you mentioned that word courts before. And I'm really big into the courts of heaven recently. Um, and I have to follow up with her, but as far as I know, the headaches have been resolved um since we did that. And it just I got chills, I'm gonna get chills at the thing. Yeah. And another time I showed her the deliverance process, you know, we had worked together for probably six to eight weeks. And what I do when someone comes to me as like an entrepreneur, I don't just look at their business, I look at their life, right? Like, do they have other afflictions? Are they drinking too much? Are they smoking weed? Like, what are the other vices that they have? Because that's gonna affect their business as well. For her, she was also drinking too much. And nothing I did from like a mental perspective, none of the little neuro hacks that I knew helped. I showed her the self-deliverance process. We didn't even do it together. She read through it. Um, that night, she ended up having like these dreams of like her whole entire past being like wiped clean with the blood of Jesus. She woke up the next morning free of alcohol. And she said, from that, for like the two weeks prior to seeing me again, she hadn't touched a single glass of wine. And this was someone who was drinking like three or four glasses a night. So that's what, like, that's these are moments that I've I've realized, like, yes, some things need to be addressed with a doctor, or some means some things are.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

I have I have a very similar experience with yours. Like, um, so it's so interesting. I had I went to visit my dad and his uh wife, which I not too close because I left Brazil so young. So I had this her life, and she was like, I got to Brazil. The minute I got to Brazil, I kept getting headaches. It was very interesting because I was like, this is not my, I don't get headaches. I was very strange. And then I go to visit my dad, and I'm talking to my dad, and then I'm talking to her, and I got that feeling I need to come back to see my dad. So I go the next day to see them. And then all of a sudden she looks at me because I don't talk, I talked more with my dad, and she's like, Dad, I have these headaches every night, and they just continue like the past it's just like the past like three years, they just got so worse. I always had them, but got to the point that it's just and then right away I was just like, I literally heard the Holy Spirit's like, ask her when what happened in the middle of the night when she was a little girl. And then uh sometimes you just you have to uncover sometimes just a little thing, and then she was just like, No, nothing happened. But because I heard him saying, like, ask her, and I was like, think a little bit more. Something happened, what happened? You know, sometimes you have to come in. I I guess I use hypnosis a little bit, like I come in. Something happened, what happened? Tell me, go back to when you're younger, and then she's like, Oh, like, you know, because I knew it was in the middle of the night because something was waking her up, and then she was like, Oh, and I was like, Okay, do you need him to leave here so we can talk? And she's like, No, it's okay. So she's like, Um, my brother, touch me in the middle of the night. She used to do that, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna pray for you. Okay, I she didn't even have to forgive him or anything. I just prayed for her, and um, you know, declaring that that demon was not operating, declaring her free. And literally, she never had a headache after that. Never, she was suffering. My father called me, she was like, I cannot believe that this woman is set free. She was like always every night she would wake up with that pain, with a headache.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Well, it's so amazing because it's like people can deal with these these afflictions and these pains and problems for so long. And it takes a moment of meeting someone like you where like they address the spiritual side. It it does it always it's always a little confusing for me because you know, there's a fine line between what's wrong with us practically and what's wrong with us spiritually. I think what I this is kind of like a self, not a selfish question, but like my own curiosity is like, how do you determine though? Like, do you do you go with the practical side first? Like I think of uh exorcisms, right? I think of the Catholic Church, big into exorcisms, but if you really look into their process, they try so hard to prove that it's not something spiritual first. Do you think that's a good way to go, or do you think it should be but like in tandem? Like, what's what what's like the do you go to a doctor first, and then you go to someone like you for the spiritual side? If that's not getting resolved, like how do you I you say in my session, or like how like if someone someone's here, like oh I got headaches that are I can't is it is it because of the pattern of it that hasn't been resolved?

SPEAKER_03 48:31

If it's something that they've been, I would definitely go to the doctor first, yeah. And if they see they're struggling with that for long, go see somebody spiritual, go understand like what's behind that because there's many people that are set free from things are they being holding on for like life, and there's many testimonies of deliverance, and I think they're growing more and more because I think God is chosen vessels and he's anointing them with the power to set others free.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

I heard a pastor recently say that God heals one of three ways. He either heals instantly and supernaturally and miraculously, sometimes it'll heal gradually and practically through a doctor, surgery, or medicine. And sometimes he doesn't heal at all until we have glory in heaven, and that's our healing. So, what do you say to those people who are just kind of they're trying all the spiritual things or trying the medical things, but they're still dealing with sometimes they're holding things in their soul.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

Remember, we have mind, body, and soul. Sometimes it's not a spiritual thing, sometimes it's a soul thing. And our soul is our emotions, our feelings or thoughts, right? Because a lot of things happen, uh, like what I see, Christians, they love God and they are very spiritual, but their emotions are a mess. Yeah, they're judging, they're gossiping, they're doing things they shouldn't, their mind is racing, they have no peace of mind. So they're not really leaving for me with the way I see with the fruitish of the spirit. Wait, we see it in Galatians 5 22, because that it's right there for us to see how we should act and be and feel emotionally, right? It's peace, joy, happiness, self-control. It's a contrast, the fruitish of the world, of the flesh, yeah. If you live every day like everyone else, and the fruit of the spirit. I never knew peace, and I never knew like love and joy until I literally work on my soul, like on my emotions. I really train them to feel love and peace and be happy and appreciate and be in gratitude. So sometimes it's not spiritual, sometimes it's in your soul. So you have to look into a whole, so that's what I do. I do a like so, I look into your emotions, and I tell you, you need to practice this. And I hold you gotta be, because some things you have to put in the work and some things are spiritual and you're set free.

unknown 50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

I think I think a lot of Christians miss out on the personal responsibility part, right? It's like I'm always reminded faith without works is dead, right? It's not you're not just hoping and wishing and praying for God to always do something supernatural. I think God can produce supernatural results, but it's met with your personal responsibility and the action you take a lot of the time. Sure, could he heal you at nighttime while you're sleeping or like instantly? Yep, we see that all the time. But I think very often, probably more often than not, that's a journey. It's the it's the journey. It's the faith with without works that ends up being people's demise. But when they step out in faith and they actually take personal bull personal accountability, that's when true change happens.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

You know what brought me in my mind now? Like uh these right lights, right? These right lights saw miracles happen and didn't change them, they didn't transform. It's beautiful to see they they received manna, right? They didn't have to do anything. But once they got into the promised land, there they had to fight their own battles, they have to move, they have to do you understand like so. I think testimonies, uh, things are great, but you have to understand that you can't live off miracles because it doesn't transform you. You have to go through a process and you have to go, like he told Joshua, be courageous and strong. I'll be with you and move and take it.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah, go through the wilderness. And a lot of people, I think, in their marriages and relationships right now are in that wilderness season. And speaking of the Israelites, I heard an interesting quote that said, It took God one day to take the Israelites out of Egypt, but 40 years to get the Egypt out of the Israelites. And an even crazier fact that I learned about that biblically is that there was estimated about two million Israelites. They say that I think originally they count the men, but including women and children, about two million that left Egypt. Out of the two million that were saved from Egypt, only two actually were Caleb and Joshua.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

That's it, because they had fate, because they had faith. They didn't they didn't complain. Like I've been studying really deep into the Israelites, and it's a lot for us to learn because even Moses didn't make it into the promised land. You know what I recently heard, which I thought of as true? He represented the old covenant. He couldn't even if he would want it.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah. And he also, we see Moses did a lot of things, not a lot of things, but some things his own way. Yes. And wasn't obedient to God. Um, I don't we could we could probably talk for an hour about just that whole journey of like the the Egypt to the wilderness to the promised land. Um, but I'm gonna I want to circle back real quick back to the practical side of things because one of the things you've mentioned a couple of times is like hearing from God, which sounds like this is a critical part, whether they're working with you and you're hearing from God for them. But also I know that they probably have the ability to hear themselves. One of the things I've struggled with recently is just that, like how to hear from God, because it's different for everybody, but there are some biblical, um, like fundamental ways to hear from God or or verses, if you will, that point to how to do it. So, what would you say to someone like, I want to hear from God? What is that process? What is it for you personally, and how does it manifest for other people?

SPEAKER_03 53:45

For me personally, I get a lot of visions. I see a lot. Um, I feel a lot. I in the word of God, I he always speaks to me. Yesterday I was asking him something, and that was like, okay, can you answer me through the word? Like, you know, so we can hear sometimes some people get visions. Sometimes I have prophetic dreams that brings revelation. Um, sometimes he uses people to just speak to you, like a friend or somebody will send you a text message. And I'm like, oh, I know it's from God. I know he's speaking because you're praying about. So I think that he can speak to us in many ways. A lot of times we're just too busy to notice or to slow down to see it. You know, um, a lot of the girls that come to me, they come and ask, one of the most common questions that I get is like, how do I know if I should fight for my marriage? A lot of people ask me that. How do I know God wants me to fight for my marriage? And I tell them, and the word tells you it's a covenant and it's the most precious covenant you can ever have.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

And God hates divorces.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

He hates so, you know, so but um it's just paying attention, asking, be intentional. He can use people and just normal people, not always pastors and leaders. Sometimes he can use a friend to send you something that's going to speak to your heart. Sometimes he will give you prophetic dreams. You know, it's interesting that a lot of the girls set up on my mentorship because I have this prophetic so strong, and a lot of them didn't have it. Now they're very flowing to the prophetic. Yeah, they're very like, oh, I had a just dream, and I teach them to, you know, ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you in this. And it's amazing. They're like, God spoke to me in this. We're doing a fast this week, and everybody's reading. It's like we're not gonna read the same thing. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you what you want you to meditate on, and that everybody had something. So you can do babe steps.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah, I realize if you want to hear from God, you have to be tuned into his station, right? It's like, you know, a radio station, I don't know what your favorite one is, but locally here, it's K104 is one of the one of the stations. That station is always playing, but it's only when you tune in your radio that do you pick up that frequency of of that station and hear it. I feel like God works the same way. He has a rhythm, a cadence, like this heavenly beat, if you will. And you need to be in that timing, you need to be in that frequency. If you I know it sounds a little woo-woo, but you got to be in his alignment, like in alignment with him. And really the question is okay, if you have to be in alignment to hear God, how do you get into alignment? And to me, it's very simple. It's obedience. It's like do what he tells you to do, not just what you're hearing, but like what's in the word, um, and seek righteousness. He says, seek first the kingdom of God and all these other things will be added to you. I have found that when I'm out of alignment, when I am um living in sin, even unknowingly and habitually, that's when I'm least likely to hear God because I can't tune into his station, right? Um, so you said that you see things, visions, you have dreams. Um, I've I've experienced it like you know, that still small voice. How would you discern, though, between what's your thought and what's God's thought?

SPEAKER_03 56:51

How do I discern your voice, Anthony? Right? Is it to me is the more you spend time with him, the more you get to know him. So it's like I have ears like really every morning looking in that secret place. Um, it's just spending time with him. It's like a friend. How do you get to know your best friend spending time with him? The more you spend time, the more you're gonna know when he's speaking to you.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

That's beautiful. There's no other way. Yeah, I know it's it's tough because I think some Christians, and I feel like this sometimes, it's like you're trying to figure out figure out a puzzle all the time. And I've prayed about that recently. Like, God, I just don't want to have to, I don't have to do the necessarily do the right thing or think the right way or pray the right way. And really what he's kind of revealed to me is ask me what to pray for, right? Ask me, like ask me, and I'll I'll guide you. You don't have to figure it out by yourself. And I think so often we like we see like these TikTok pastors or we go down these rabbit holes with like AI now. We see that too. It's like just go go right to the source, you know, and and pray and ask what to pray about, you know. And I think that's actually it's been a big revelation for me. Let's let's go to like some of the the scenarios that are outside of marriage right now, because I think there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this and watching these videos that aren't necessarily married or in relationships, um, but of course may want to be someday, right? So let's talk to the Christian woman who is single and maybe has a um a pattern of toxic relationships. Maybe she keeps attracting emotionally unavailable men. Um, from your lens, like through deliverance and some of the spiritual warfare talk that we're talking about, what might be going on underneath the surf uh underneath the surface for that person?

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Learn behaviors. Sometimes there is like all goes back to seeing what happened in the family line. I have worked with women where the majority of the women never even got to marry. And that's that was coming. They didn't re realize that, but that was coming. Sometimes it just they learn and they're protecting themselves. I don't, I saw my mom suffering in my childhood by my dad, maybe physically abused. A lot of what I notice, a lot of women that experience parents being physically abused, they they want, they consciously, in the conscious mind, they want to get married, but subconsciously, they're like, I no way, I don't want to put myself into that. So they keep finding those um unavailable bands, or they grow up without that. That's another pattern, too. They grew up without that, and it's very familiar to them to have want something that is not available because that's what they learn too. It can be a different, you have to look, everybody's very individual, like what they experience. So you have to look into each area to understand. But a lot of times is that I have a friend, I love her. She she's on her 40s, she her dream is to get married. And um, she hasn't got married yet. She would love to get into a serious relationship, but she grew up uh with, she was raised by her grandmother without mom, without that. You understand? Like, so she she always looks for for guys that aren't available. So you have to look at your childhood and see what behaviors or what you learn about love, because those are your first experiences with love. And you unconsciously believe you deserve that. But it's simple because I had, if listen, I if I came from the chaotic marriage, divorce, cheating, abandonment, and I healed and I'm like now today in a happy and healthy, loving relationship, anybody can be. You just have to heal, you have to put in the work, you have to rewire your mind to believe that you deserve that, that you are worthy of. And I have um uh a mentor right now that she was in a very toxic relationship, actually, not married. Um, and she realized that was toxic. I never really spoke about the relationship because she didn't come to me about the relationship interesting. She came from something else, and then uh for more like uh understanding herself and her identity. And now she's been single for a year and she's fasting, she's praying about her husband, she broke all the patterns, she's she built this relationship with her father and mother again because it wasn't it was very shaky, and now she's preparing herself to get married. So you have to look at your past, you have to look at your experiences in your childhood and your family line, what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

You know, you said you said something there about your friend always dreaming of getting married, and it reminded me of something that's probably gonna trigger some people, especially because it's gonna sound like a man splaning this. Um, and I think this can go for men as well. But I often think that like God will use seasons of single singleness or even of being financially broke um to bring you closer to to him because very often you're idolizing the thing that you want, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:31

That happened in my marriage. I was idolizing my husband. That was like even though we're couldn't, it wasn't my brokenness became my biggest testimony and the best thing that happened in my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Yeah. And but I think that happens too before you even get married. I think so many, I think guys too. I I don't want to keep qualifying this, but I see this with my uh female clients a lot, is they idolize marriage, they idolize motherhood, and these are all very good, organic, natural drives that God has has given us, right? Especially women. Um, but where do you draw the line between your pursuit of Jesus and your dream of marriage or motherhood, you know? Um, and I think some women, and I and I'm saying this, it just came to my mind because I think one, I care more about people's souls and their their opinions or their emotions. So if someone's listening to this, I'm hoping it speaks just to one person that, you know, as much as you want to be married or have a family, you need to put God first. And I think we I think we can often fool ourselves thinking we're doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

Yeah, God is a God of order, and if it's not in proper order, even in marriage, right? Um, I honor my husband, but my I God comes first. Yeah. What is that order?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

What is that order? What's the order that you see biblically for people?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

So can I can I make a comparison?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

Before this restoration, right? It was my order, the crazy order was work, life, kids, then my husband, and then God. But before, like I didn't know God. But now that I know God, it's like my relationship with God is at the highest because when it's the strongest and I'm in the fire for him, I honor and respect my husband. So it's God, my husband, then it's my children. Because some women put the kids above their husbands and you shouldn't. Because if your kids come before your husband, like what kind what are you teaching them in your relationship? No, that relationship, they want to see a happy, healthy, loving relationship. They need that. They need that as simple. We we we're living in a generation that there's no example of healthy and loving, peaceful relationship. Kids need that. So it's God, my husband, the kids, then work. If work is gonna push me away, take me away from my priorities, then it's not it's not a good fit for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

I know so many. I see this with guys a lot too. Like, I work so hard for my family. I spend so much time in my business and like hustling for my family. That's not it's not the right order. Sure, you should provide and and build up wealth for generations to come and all these positive things and whatnot, and be a good steward of resources and your finances, but it doesn't mean that you put work first. And it's often often I find it's an avoidant mechanism. You know, they're not willing to face the things at home, and so they'll me and my husband used to have that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

Like first for him was work and then everything else, you know, and and then when we put in this order God first, our marriage, kids, then work, believe me, we made so much more money.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

What happens though when one spouse doesn't want to honor that God-given system or order, right? Like yeah, you have and we this could even get in a conversation of people who are unequally yoked. And there's probably a lot of people listening to this, and they're like, How do I know if I'm with the right person? You know, like how how do you do that if people you because we're all different, right? We say opposites attract. I kind of hate that that uh cliche, you know, but but it is, I think that unfortunately. Yeah. So what would you say to the person? One, let's talk to the the person first. That's like, am I with the right person? How do you know? In a marriage, you mean? Let's say they're vett-less let's let's go back to someone maybe in the in the dating world and they're with someone, they're they're vetting for marriage.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:16

What do they both have the same values and principles? If they're not married, that's important that they they really look into the behaviors, right? How they treat this, like how they're treating you. And do they have the same values and principles? Because if I'm somebody, I love, I'm a homebody. I love to be home. I love, I'm not a person to be out a lot. But then I'm dating somebody that is a party and wants to be out, right? They they prioritize maybe going out, enjoying a good time. That's gonna clash at some point. So I think what made me and my husband last so long, because we're married for about 17 years, is that our fit values are very similar. It's family, it's like now God wasn't, but it is now God. It's the kids, it's First, us and then everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

That makes a lot of sense. You know, it's it's interesting when you think about the unequally yoked concept in the Bible. You have to really look at contextually what was happening in those times when they were using these this language. And like, I think if I remember correctly, it's actually against the law at the time to yoke together. The yoke was a thing that that connected uh two oxen together, let's say, to carry something or to pull something. It was against the law to to put like, let's say, a donkey with an ox, right? Because it would hurt both of them because they were not equally yoked and they had to carry different loads. I think spiritually we often get into situations, not just relationships, but also business partnerships, friendships, where we are actually hurting ourselves or the hurting the other person because we're carrying too much or too little of the spiritual load, right? And it's not to say that you're not going to be friends with unbelievers. I think we're called to be in those circumstances, in those situations. But I think definitely when it comes to a relationship, making sure you have an alignment in values, you're both willing to say God, Jesus Christ first, Lord and Savior, and then everything else secondary to that is probably the single most important barometer for is are you with the right person?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

Yeah, but you know what I think about it. If uh wasn't my husband, if he didn't allow himself to marry somebody that'd be a nicely yoke, I would never got to know God the way I do now. So when people come and say, like, oh, I don't think my husband can be saved, I'm like, I'm the Zimpo. If you hear me talking about God, it's because he was faithful enough and he showed me God's love through his behavior, so the way he he was the first person that I ever felt love, like that loved me and felt wow, this guy loves me, he treats me different.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

So I think that yeah, no, and I'm not I'm not saying that if someone feels unequally yoked in their marriage, that's not to be reconciled. I will say though that you will save yourself a lot of trouble if you make sure before you get married that you do your best to find someone who's that's why this scripture tells you to marry with somebody the same belief. Yeah, and also I mean, we also see that God does use things that have happened that are bad for good. Everything works out together for our good to those who believe in him. And just because you may have gotten quote unquote with the wrong person and married who you thought was the wrong person, even on paper, they may have been the wrong person, God can still use that marriage for good, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:27

Yes, he did it to my marriage.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Like, yeah, and that's why we're here right now. We wouldn't be here having this conversation. So let's talk a little bit um about some of the spiritual attacks that we mentioned earlier. Where do you see right now the devil, the enemy is like most effective? Like this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:49

I think that's because once you destroy a marriage, the kids' identity are broken and shorter. I'm a product of that. You know, it's not easy. And I see that all the time with you know, my clients um when they're going through divorce. First of all, both parents are preoccupied, are distracted, are not taking the role. They're a lot of times, you know, they're dealing with their own emotion, they can't even like go through, and then the kid is that left and is in pain. And the worst of that is that they can't even express it because they're usually babies young, so or even older. So I think marriages are a big place for for demons to attack, to, to break, to destroy. Because they they get very um, they get into drugs. Like I have like my all my siblings got into a lot of trouble.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

Yeah, I think the the devil hates marriage, right? Because it is the ultimate reflection of God. We are made in his image, male and female. And when we become joined into one flesh through marriage, we are actually manifesting the full image of God. And what would the devil love to do? He would love to prevent that from happening or to rip it apart when it does happen. So I think that's why marriage is, and that's why I think we see divorce rates so high. That's why I think we see um the proliferation of like the dating and hookup culture so high and and people so willing to just like date around and sleep around because it's the devil trying to infiltrate the the holiness of union between a male and a female for life, right? Um one of the things I always get asked is can a Christian be possessed? Right? Is this just is this just non-believers who are being like how like what would you say? Can can can someone be demonized and also be a Christian? Because I know there's a lot of confusion around possession, oppression. Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:39

Like, yeah, you can be Christian and have demons. I was a Christian, I was baptized already, and I went through deliverance myself. And I was just like putting out, and I was like, cannot believe this. You know, I didn't possess, I didn't get to, I just threw up, but I seen Christians get delivered where they're possessed. You see it all, it doesn't mean Jesus was setting all of them free.

unknown 1:11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

I think it's important too for people to realize you don't have to manifest to have been.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:10

I have people that just burp, you know, because there's many ways for them to leave. There's people that burp, there's people that just uh feel and they throw like there's the pens. There's people that feel like pain, I you know, the people that throw up, there's everybody, and there's people that don't feel anything and they're free.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Yeah. What do you think the single most important part of the process is? Like if you could boil it down to one key point, if people could know this and could implement it now, after let's say they've gotten to the point where they've they've let Jesus in, they've let they're like, God, you take the wheel, right? What's the pro what's the single most important practical step of this process?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:50

After they accept Jesus, I would say definitely be on the word, like on the word of God, learn about God, what he likes and what he dislikes. I would say go into like the first five books of the Bible, you know, Exodus, Genesis, Numbers, like and meditate because that teaches us a lot about how God, it's not just Jesus, yes, we see Jesus' ministry, but that's the the beginning, what he teaches us, how he wanted us these people to be. So it doesn't mean you can't be that person. He wanted them to be clean, he wanted them to not they they were supposed to be different than the pagan, like everybody else, for a reason. They had to be pure. So I think that being pure at your heart, it means like not thinking the thoughts that you want, you know, sending good, not gossiping, not putting your time into, you know, negative things, just renewing your mind. So just completely different. But for you to experience that, you have to be in the word of God because that is transformation.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

Yeah, and it goes back to that the power of faith, right? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. What I didn't realize until very recently, actually, this is kind of embarrassing to admit because I've was saved back in 2011. Um, it wasn't until like the past couple of years that I've really started reading the Bible. I was always like, oh, a devotional here or reading the Bible in church there, but like actually sitting and reading it all the way through, I realized that this is like a this is a spiritual algorithm. Even if you don't understand it, even if it feels dry, you have to consume it. And you're literally downloading like source code. I know it sounds a little weird, but I've read it from cover to cover, and just reading it and absorbing the words on the paper have created transformation inside of me. Not sometimes not immediately, but later, all of a sudden a verse comes to mind or a situation or something contextual that relates to the thing that I'm in that I couldn't have made that connection until I was in that situation. And so I always say to people, like you said, the first step is reading the Bible. Like, even if you don't get it, even if you don't know where to start. And I always say, start with the gospels. You can start with the book of John's a great one, then go to Ephesians that's talking about a lot of the um the spiritual warfare things that we're talking about. I would say start though with the New Testament, then go back to the Old Testament. Because what I found is the Old Testament can scare people, especially as a new believer. But if you read the New Testament first and you see the story and revelation of Jesus Christ and his divinity, yes. And then you look back and you see the Old Testament and the severity of sin and how important it was for us to have a savior in Jesus, it all makes a lot more sense. So I I I agree. Read the Bible, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:25

Read the Bible, pray. If you don't, I you know one thing I do, and a lot of people say, Oh, I help me. I I invite the Holy Spirit before I start. Holy Spirit, highlight what I need to learn. And I when I finish, I meditate on like well, how can I apply this to my life? What are you trying to say? What do I need to change?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

So speaking of prayer inviting the Holy Spirit, what if someone's listening to this right now and they're like they they need inner healing? Can you could you lead us through a a prayer of of some sort of self-healing or or yeah? You want to do that?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:53

You know, yeah, I can.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:55

All right, let's let's go. So someone's if you're listening to this right now and and you feel like there's just like chaos and like you're you just want the Holy Spirit to take over and help you out and to do a work in in you and in your marriage as a result. Um, yeah, I would love for you to guide us through a through.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:11

Very simple pair, but I would just open my close, be in a place that you'll feel comfortable, that you can just close your eyes and just say, Father, I just want to humbly open my heart to you, open my mind, and just invite the Holy Spirit into whatever you are. I just invite him and say, I open my heart and mind to you, Holy Spirit. Help me through the place, heal the places that are wounded that maybe I don't even remember, but you know, open my wounds, heal them, bring them to the light, everything that's been hidden in the darkness. Show me the patterns that have been stopping me to experience the fullness of God, the fullness of hearing your word, the fullness of understanding you. Father, we ask you that whoever is listening to this, that they be touched by the power of the Holy Spirit, that they can open themselves to a healing, a transformation in every area that they need, even if it's Mary's restoration, even if it's infirmity that they're dealing with, or the mind, or the anxiety. We speak peace. I speak love and joy into their minds and Mary's restoration. I speak unity in their hearts, I speak a full testimony, Father, to praise your name and to glorify you always. We thank you, Lord. We thank you because you are the one that can transform us from inside out. And we thank you for everyone that is listening to this prayer, that they are transformed and they are touched by your spirit in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:47

Amen. That's beautiful. You know, I I always I I never try to like listen, listen, like like to dissect, but one of the like one of the things I think is really important as I'm listening to that prayer is like you speaking to the problem or the situation. I think too many Christians are like praying for God to do it when we have so much power and authority to it's not and that it's not to say we're not inviting the Holy Spirit into it, but I think there's a lot of timid Christians out there, you know. This goes to the crit this goes to the Christian people who are like, I'm already all in. I've already I've already given my life to Jesus. Like, okay, we'll start speaking to your problems. Correct. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:20

Bring healing, open your hearts, bring to the works of the darkness into the light. Like sometimes simple things. It doesn't have to be anything. All the healing, deepest healing has always been with the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

Yeah. So before before we uh land this plane here, let's get let's get a little vulnerable with you, okay? What's what's one area you you still struggle with in with maybe with your husband or with your spiritual walk? What's something that you've been?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:47

Yeah, well, I think, okay, that's a that's a good question. That's an amazing question. I think that because uh truthfully, I was in religion. I don't know if I ever shared this with you. I was in religion. Um, we were like Jehovah's Witnesses, and um in when the Holy Spirit really, I really got to know God deeply, I was like, this is not God. And my husband's family, everyone is so I honor them, I respect them, I welcome them, but I show them Jesus, the real Jesus. So um, yeah, so I had to take a step of faith and boldness to walk away from everything that I had known because I remember he introduced me that, and I'm grateful for that part of my journey because it shaped me to who I am. But I understood that um not to say that they're bad or anything, but it was just it, I I God is not in that. The Holy Spirit doesn't, so I had to walk away and I'm waiting on the fulfillment where I will see me and my husband walking into it. I can't cry, like to the same place together. So I go by myself. So that's something that I am fasting, I am praying, and I'm believing because I already see as is for my whole family. So there was church hurt and my kids, so there was a lot of things, but it was part of the journey. I do believe that everything happens for a reason, and I joyfully accept and know that God is working, and I'll be back with a beautiful, big, and powerful testimony because I already see the fruits of it, I already see a lot of changes in Him.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

And like you said, you're showing them Jesus. And I think too many people think they have to preach the gospel, but through their words, and you should be preaching the gospel far before you ever speak it.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:28

Your character speaks. Can I tell you something? I remember when I walked away and I had this big revelation, I wanted to show them, and then I realized that the best way to show is to be like Jesus. And uh, I cannot even tell you. So many Christians, I sit on, you know, to talk to them and I love them, but I I see the character, they're not following Jesus, they're following their own desires. And remember, Jesus wants us to die to ourselves. That's why marriage it's it's a full transform. Marriage, it's it's it's not the happy life that people think it's a full transformation. That's what your character gets developer. Like the you develop your whole character through through your marriage because you'll learn to, okay, I need to just you know be quiet today because today maybe you need to be a 90% on this marriage, and he's only giving a 10%. So it's it's that it's not like always 50-50, but it's what your character gets developed, gets transformed. And I think that having people that are not thinking the same way doesn't give you an excuse to walk way or to think or to shovel in the face, but to show them the love of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:34

Yeah, show them. Yeah, show and tell. Um, if you could go back to your 20-year-old self and tell her something, one thing about relationships, what would you say?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:45

Oh, you make me cry. You always put those stuff most um, you're gonna be okay because I had my heart broken so many times. Um, I was very rejected, right? For many, many relationships. You're you're gonna be so proud of yourself, and you're gonna have the most beautiful family and happy. And I think that's the most I always wanted, but I would sabotage it. So, like, you're gonna be so happy and proud of you, Deborah, that you overcame everything that meant to break you.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:15

It's beautiful. I'm always and I'm always reminded too, like, God's ways are not our ways, right? And like his will is so much better than anything that we could possibly think that we want for ourselves. It's a thousandfold what he has planned, right? Well, I appreciate you coming all the way up from uh Long Island here to upstate New York to uh to do this. Um, where can people go to find out more about you? And you know, you said you had a book. Tell us what you got a book. The book is coming up soon. What's the title? Do we have a title yet?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:44

Not yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:45

I'm waiting on the title. I just got the skeleton of the book, which I'm super excited. You know, it's really a book about transformation, healing for women, but also marriage restoration. Because when you restore yourself, it's it's undeniable that your life will transform. So it's uh it's a blueprint that God did it to me, and it's very powerful. So it should be coming up, I'd say, the latest January. I'm putting all my effort, all my inage to finish this in the next where everybody's gonna be enjoying the holidays. I'll be like, you know, writing this book. So it should be out in January.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

And you'll post about it, I'm assuming on TikTok.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

Yeah. TikTok and Instagram. Deborah Manfrey. It's my page, my, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

You spell that for us.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:27

Yeah. Deborah D-E-B-O-R-A. No H Manfrey M-A-N-F-R-E. And it's um, yeah, that's where they're gonna find everything. And it's my website is Deborah Manfrey.com to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:41

Awesome. Well, you heard it here first, folks. I thank you so much, Deborah. And guys, if you love this episode, if you got something out of it, um make sure you share it uh with someone who might need it. Um, any revelations that you had, if something spoke to you, if Deborah said something that really spoke to your spirit, make sure you leave it in the comments below. Like it, hit the subscribe button too, because that helps us out. And uh hopefully we'll have you back on, Deborah. It'll be fun to have you again. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah, see ya.